Your just in luck. I’m just about to write up a guide on this build. It’s very tanky, and offers very good damage (about as much damage as a full condition engi), can get anyone off a point and you can tank almost as long as a bunker. Some may snicker and laugh since it sounds like its to good to be true, but try it out and see for yourself. If you want to be more of a defender I recommend trying out the rocket turret instead of the mine, since it can offer good additional damage, but you can still use it offensively as well (it’s my fav. honestly).
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0paZX3SfF1LJxIFk+zgUk3+KSRl1/nCsF;TkAA1CnoQygkAJLSOkkINIA
If they all have OP spirit hammer, then they can hold indefinately and get you off any of your points with ease.
[Comprehensive guide] [Tpvp] Power Necro: People think they suck.. Im here to prove you wrong... *Wall of Txt*
in Necromancer
Posted by: Zenyoga.6910
My only issue with the spec is the reliability of the minion in terms of AI. When he’s working the spec is leaps and bounds better, when he’s not there goes 800 dps out the window till he wakes up. Also without having him at 50% more health traited he’s going down faster than you may want at times. I’m playing a similiar spec and have played a minion build prior that was more tanky (not sure which I like more, I’m still getting use to the power necro).
I wrote up a whole article on the necro specs
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/A-more-complicated-look-at-the-necro/first#post160897
And as much as I like the necro there are just better more reliable options for the roles we currently fill.
Minion AI gets most screwy when using AOE skills on the necro, like staff marks and the AOE on axe (retaliation granting).
Minion AI can improve in the way they attack/follow. Currently they move slowly to target, pause, attack, pause, attack and if the enemy moves after a attack, they pause, move, pause attack. This leads to an incredible easy time for the opposition to kite.
For starters as a bandaid fix, and perhaps in general, increase the minion speed by 15%. Most of this will be fixed. Allow for minions to attack on the move, not pause, attack so the opponent can just step away easily.
Frankly, Jon Peters has no credibility with me at this point. How anyone can say he is concerned with DS being too powerful when they have let warriors, thieves and mezmers run around destroying people with the same cookie cutter skill sets and builds that require no more than a 2 to 3 button spam is laughable. Then to say that “everyone says they are underpowered” when any fool who isn’t blind can see the obvious difference in the number and consistency of posts in our forums compared to others is simply inexcusable. Fact is, he has something against this profession and the people that play it. I can’t explain it otherwise. The overt advantage other classes have and the sheer easiness of play compared to ours says volumes. That and the fact that we have had NOTHING changed when so much is wrong is practically a siren in the dead of night saying something ain’t right. Either he has no clue how to fix us or they just don’t care. Pick one. I personally and disgusted at this point and after his last remarks, have lost respect for him professionally.
A little dramatic, but gets the general message across. However the changes I would make to the necro would be more of a bump in damage, a fixing to power builds, and improve fear and make it easier to get life force by other means….
+1
In addition:
The necro might be a solid profession and everything what Jon Peters said would be right if, and thats the nub of the matter, our skills and traits wouldn’t be so buggy. In the current state of the necro it really sucks to play the profession and we can’t even say if this is due to the profession being undepowered or not cause there are so many bugs. The concept behind the necro might be fine, but we won’t know it until most of the bugs are fixed.
Its not the traits, almost all the builds I use don’t have buggy traits.
@Cls.9346
Didn’t exactly say corruptions were bad, but the negative damage to you is unwarrented. Yes you can use them to your advantage at times, but this game is so chaotic its not a given, and thus its more of a hurt to the class I feel.
deriver.5381
Well necro is a good tank, and with plague form can last a good bit (if you don’t have plague, Its not nearly as good), but it falls into the category of what I mentioned. There are stronger tanks w/more capture point strengths. We can tank and be godly in Spvp and kittenhardy in tpvp, but the points I’ve listed make us less functional overall.
I must say you put yourself in a little hot water with your comment about D.S., but I understand your theoretical caution, even if I don’t agree
I want to offer you a more in depth look into the necro in high/higher end play (not that I and my guild are the best group, but we’ve played and given very close games to the current top teams, Team Paradigm and Team Legacy).
The necro in the right hands is good and I’ve played all specs Condition/Power builds/Tank Builds/Minion builds and have had fine success (I’m a good all around player and this has a lot to do with it). I have certain classes/builds that give each of these specs its own challenges and this is fine, I don’t expect to be able to beat 1v1 vrs all other classes/builds.
However when I break down what I can do vrs an equivalent it becomes pretty obvious that what the necro can offer in any of his specs is outshined by what another class can do speced the same way. I like the necro but if I really wanted to min max and go with what will win us the most, I’m better of choosing another class atm (which I won’t, I’m not at that point and I like the necro).
1. As a tank Necro (with plague form ready) I can tankkittenwell, but a bunker style Guardain or Engineer can do the same and get others off the point to keep/take a point from a group (with all their knockbacks). Our damages are about the same when fully tanked spec, but the deciding factor is knockdowns/pushbacks. Giving our fears a 2 second effect would almost help counter this and put us on equal ground (and DEAR god tone down spirit hammers countless knockdown/knockbacks).
2. A powerspec necro can do decent damage at the loss of a ton of survivability, and get some kills here and there, but its totattly outshined by a warrior/thief/ranger who actually have more survivability when specced to do damage and played well with their various outs. D.S. is not a mechanic that will save for long when speced like paper. Below is a link that gives my thoughts on how to help the powerspec options.
3. Condition necro’s are pretty deadly, but vrs a bleed/condition stacking ranger/thief and even a mesmer are outclassed because of the speed at which the necro puts out its conditions. Also necro’s having only 2 types of damage conditions and their slow application (in comparison) makes them more at a disadvantage then a counterpart due to condition removals. The necro does have an advantage vrs a ranger/thief counter part in a 1v1 situation, but offers less overall vrs all others (a mesmer can equally null conditions if speced similarly to the necro, have equal survivability and more damage).
4. The redheaded step child is actually in my opinion one of the best necro specs when minion AI is working solid. Yes it has its weaknesses in a 3v3 and greater and vrs AOE comps (which are rare), but as a point holder and assister can put out prettykittengood damage and have real good survivability.
I’ve made a post that I think would help the necro in a inadvertent way of balancing other classes as well as a small amount of damage buff to the class.
Also I’ve shared my thoughts on how the necro is most vulnerable at the start of matches due to no life force and that the plague form is the only real counter to this when focus fired (or very good team gameplay to help you).
Other things that concern the class are…..
1. Life force generation outside of Staff and traited marks is very low.
2. Corruptions and their negative effects is unwarranted (no class has this and has equal to better results with their utilities).
3. Our fears are to short. (why on earth does a thief stolen fear last for 3 seconds and ours for 1, GOD that makes me so mad).
4. Our signet choices are relatively poor with lame effects or high cooldowns (minus plague, but I personally never us that).
5. Wells are relatively so meh….
6. Reduce the casting time of Spinal Shivers, unholy feast, wail of doom and enfeebling blood (this would help a lot for fluidity).
P.S. I fact checked something you said about how all class forums are saying they are underpowered and everyone else is overpowered and that is not true https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Balancing-Guild-Wars-2 .
Only the Elementalist and Necro forums have a lot of UP threads and interestingly enough the community agree’s. You also never hear wow necro’s are OP or Elementalist is OP. I say this because I think the majority is seeing something that perhaps your team is not. I know there are a lot of cryers out there but I think at least “a partial something” can be taken from the outcrys of those professions and the fact that the other professions are not complaining about us.
(edited by Zenyoga.6910)
So I played all the Beta’s and tests and had no issues. Since release I’ll have times where my skills show they can be cast, and I’ll activate them and won’t go off. There is no interrupt or stuns, or dazing going (this even happens when I die, respawn and I hit the forward key to walk and it won’t register, I then let go of the button and click it again and I walk fine). I’ve even wondered if maybe i just didn’t notice a stun/daze/interrupt, but if that were the case my skill would refresh on a timer, and its just like nothing was clicked. to me this is gamebreaking as pvper since about 1-3 times a match I just don’t have a skill cast and thats huge.
This is completely random and never happened in previous versions of the game. My keyboard is fine and all other games/typing email is fine (so its not my keys).
I’ve posted this in a Guru a long time ago and people said they had this in WvW and its because the game does a server check before casting skills ( do play in Europe from U.S.) however I’ve played all types of MMO’s and FPS and never had a game deal with lag/stress this way, normally it would just cast the skill a split second later, not just unque the skill.
Keep in mind that some professions are harder to master than others. I believe Necro is the hardest, opinions may vary, but just keep this in mind. No we arent ignoring Necro, but once people start mastering DS, I’m afraid of how strong Necro will be. Give it some time for the average player to learn these things. For example early on in LOL master yi was dominant until people learned how to counter him.
Would you mind explaining this? I play necro soley and while I do very fine your comment is a bit strange to me. I talk here and there with the necro mains at Team Paradigm and try to get as many opinions as possible. Necro’s DS is easily countered in many respects unless you have stability, the freeze bleed skill takes WAY to long to go off (simply changing this to go off much faster would do a lot of the class), as a melee necro fearing sometimes is counter to keeping them close so its a weird synergy at times and THE NUMBER ONE issue with D.S. is that you need to get a decent way into a battle to make it usefull and this is the time when necro is most vulnerable. I tell my group to ALWAYS focus necro in the start of team fights, because unless speced with lots of protection (I’m one of the only necro’s i know who do this) they will go down pretty fast since they don’t have stored life force to fall back on. They may pop a Spectral armor but they will have to dodge and prematurely go into D.S. (because damage is to high to just take and the protection is just a momentary buffer vrs focus and the life force gaining aspect will be removed). At this point a few more hits while in D.S. and then they are out and easily killed at that point (takes a lot of team cordination at this point to get you out of this downward spiral).
Now if they have plague form, the necro is balanced (but I don’t know if centering around a elites for balance is good design)
I know this may sound weird, but I think by having necro’s start with 100% D.S. and balancing from there is much better, than working from 0-100% (and Ya things would need to be adjusted from current)
Keep in mind that some professions are harder to master than others. I believe Necro is the hardest, opinions may vary, but just keep this in mind. No we arent ignoring Necro, but once people start mastering DS, I’m afraid of how strong Necro will be. Give it some time for the average player to learn these things. For example early on in LOL master yi was dominant until people learned how to counter him.
Would you mind explaining this? I play necro soley and while I do very fine your comment is a bit strange to me. I talk here and there with the necro mains at Team Paradigm and try to get as many opinions as possible. Necro’s DS is easily countered in many respects unless you have stability, the freeze bleed skill takes WAY to long to go off (simply changing this to go off much faster would do a lot of the class), as a melee necro fearing sometimes is counter to keeping them close so its a weird synergy at times and THE NUMBER ONE issue with D.S. is that you need to get a decent way into a battle to make it usefull and this is the time when necro is most vulnerable. I tell my group to ALWAYS focus necro in the start of team fights, because unless speced with lots of protection (I’m one of the only necro’s i know who do this) they will go down pretty fast since they don’t have stored life force to fall back on. They may pop a Spectral armor but they will have to dodge and prematurely go into D.S. (because damage is to high to just take and the protection is just a momentary buffer vrs focus and the life force gaining aspect will be removed). At this point a few more hits while in D.S. and then they are out and easily killed at that point (takes a lot of team cordination at this point to get you out of this downward spiral).
Now if they have plague form, the necro is balanced (but I don’t know if centering around a elites for balance is good design)
Most of this is solid but, why no elementalist section? They arguably need the most love right now.
And you think the easiest solution to pistol whip is a 1.5-2k hp increase? Increasing the base health of all professions by 1.5k-2k hp would mess up pve and wvw more than it would save pvp.
Feel free to post your thoughts on ele, I don’t play one and only face them and hear the community. I was just getting some feedback from a guildy and a guy at Team Paradigm and they both agree it needs more focus, its kinda a jack of all trades master of none (minus its healing speck). Since I don’t know it in depthly enough I won’t comment.
The pistol whip and heartseaker decrease in damage not buff would be offset with a little more survivability to the theif or some utility of some sort. Its one possible fix, there are others I’m sure, but I don’t think many disagree that the skills I listed are a tad to high.
Your initial point about quickness is interesting. I don’t mind the length of quickness but I do think that it shouldn’t decrease the time it takes to kill someone in downed state. Quickness is okay, but since killing/reviving downed players is crucial to tPvP success, I feel that quickness provides an unstable benefit to some professions that isn’t afforded to others.
Funny I think that part of quickness is interesting.
one point i took away from this is that you feel melee needs to be nerfed in general and more specifically the burst aspect. i feel this is dangerous ground because if you take away burst from the melee, they are effectively useless due to kiting. if I am melee, against competent players I will only be able to hit them for a little while before they peel off of me. outside of this time, my damage is pretty much 0. so if during this time I am unable to do enough damage to make up for doing 0 damage at other times, then melee becomes fodder.
melee is all about setup. there always tends to be a lot of QQ from crappy players who only see the burst without ever understanding the setup. you can call me biased since i do primarily play melee characters, but in my opinion if you are a ranged guy, and you have used all your snare breakers, and you get CC’d next to a melee guy for 3-4 seconds, you SHOULD expect to die or be badly hurt.
I actually didn’t look at it from that perspective, I honestly came to this from talking with a lot of good players and teams. Quickness helps both melee and range so its almost an equal change, but here’s the thing. In Tpvp, minus the Foe Fire map, the points themselves are pretty small and its not hard as a melee to continually hit the ranged guy if he’s hoping to keep the point capped (I mainly play necro melee so I have experience with this). If they run off the point to kite, your doing your job and winning the point.
(edited by Zenyoga.6910)
So I think the game is really good overall. There are however a few things that i think would improve the game.
1. I think toning down the length quickness is up would take down some of the burst/cheese we see in spvp and even in Tpvp, as it is Burst is pretty king atm. I think a 2.5ish seconds would be long enough to make it usefull and removing the debuffs on it would be better than having it up for 4-5 seconds (depending on traits).
2. I think immobilizes are a tad to long in general. I think 3 seconds should be the most any class can have. I think this would make pvp a little more fun for everyone.
Class wise I think balance is good and little tweaks could go a long ways in equalizing classes and allowing for more choices.
1. I don’t think anyone will argue that ele’s and necro’s could use a little love. I main a necro and I don’t think they are nearly as bad as people say, but you gotta play spot on against good players and any mistake is more costly than any class. I’ve thought a lot about what i would change and I’d say a 8-12% increase across the board in damage (axes need about a 20% increase and make the retaliation attack faster) would go along ways especially if everything else I’m mentioning is changed. The skill tree is kinda meh, but I’m not sure what exactly I’d do to it (there are so many routes that could be taken).
The Dagger mainhand is also in need of a change. I think since they can’t compare 1v1 vrs any of the other melee classes, giving it a range increase could go a long way. So if normal melee range is 130, giving the dagger a 220-230 would make it a lot more strong.
2. Thief’s pistol-whip, and heartseaker I think could use a 15-20% damage adjustment. I think in turn give them a little more survivability in some form to compensate easiest fix I think would be just a 1500-2000 hp increase
3. Guardians can arguably do everything that is good for Tpvp (hold points, do really good damage, get people off points, knockback, rezz, heal). I’m honestly not sure what exactly to adjust, but something needs to budge a little.
Also their spirit hammer is a bit over the top, and stacks in hilarity as more Guardians with them fight on the same point. I don’t know how this went through test and remaind a knockdown every 3 seconds for 20-30’s its out (you can only dodge a few, then your knockdown constantly). I think it does fine damage and a knockdown every 10 seconds would be fine.
4. Warriors are pretty burly and can do some cheesy things, a change to quickness would adjust this and a decrease in their bulls charge knockdown (1 seconds instead of 2) and make it a 30 second cooldown. This would make the one build everyone’s learned to love/hate more tame and require greater skill gameplay in general.
5. A few mesmer builds can be tanky and do very good damage. A lot of good mesmers I’ve talked to say they feel they are overpowered and pretty easy to pull of. Since I don’t fully understand them I can’t say exactly what I’d do to adjust them, but tankiness or damage needs a 10-20% adjusment.
Also on Kyhlo their teleport/treb repair is just to OP and needs to be looked at. I think a delay on how fast a treb can be repaired after being destroyed will fix this (perhaps 20 seconds).
(edited by Zenyoga.6910)