Guild Wars 2

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Karl is not the best with words. That’s why they have sometimes done pre-recordings of these patch notes rather than live Karl and those went much better.

Didn’t rewatch it but there is a difference between “one mesmer makes the raid to 66% more damage” and “alacrity makes the raid do 66% more damage.”
Quickness is still a thing and it doesn’t look to be getting nerfed (res/stomp aside). So yeah, 100% uptime on 50% attack speed increase and 40% CDR… I could easily call that a 66% damage increase for the raid in an offhand remark and not think he was too far off.

Lul?

Let me wonder: you aren’t a math lover like karl right? xD

A) Quickness affect just skill without cooldown (basically AA chains or thieves) and channeled skill.

So to get the best result from quickness (that +50% raid dmg you are speaking off) you require an IDEAL raid with people casting just skill WITHOUT cooldown (AA chains\thieves) or channeled skills.

Every single skill casted from a raid member that ISNT a skill without cooldown or a channeled skill doesn’t benefit from quickness, and makes the raid dmg addition from quickness to drop from that 50%.

B) Alacrity affect just skill with cooldown (so basically it doesnt affect the 80% of skill affected from quickness).

So to get the best result from alacrity (that +40% raid dmg you are speaking off) you require an IDEAL raid with people casting just skill WITH cooldown.

Every single skill casted from a raid member that IS a skill without cooldown doesn’t benefit from ALACRITY, and makes the raid dmg addition from quickness to drop from that 40%.

RESULT:

Quickness and Alacrity aren’t ADDITIVE.

Quickness and alacrity are ALTERNATIVE.

From a math side it means that with the exception of channeled skill with a cooldown you are goin to take the 50% more dmg OR the 40% more dmg from alacrity based upon which skill are you using.

This means that on an IDEAL situation with a single chrono bringing 100% quickness and alacrity uptime on a 10 men raid the total raid dmg addiction would be between 40% and 50% -average 45%- and not 66% like you (and karl) stated.

But as i highlighted till now this is an IDEAL situation where a single mesmer would bring by hisself 100% alacrity and quickness on 10 men raid.

This isn’t possible, and it has already demostraded with maths and tons of video in past 3 months.

You can have 100% quick and alacrity uptime with a single mesmer on 5 men party enviroment but you CAN’T have 100% quick and alacrity uptime with a single mesmer on a 10 men raid.

Let’s analize raid enviroment:

Max quickness uptime from a single mesmer with 100 boon duration 2 soi + 3 weels and chrono rune on 10 men raid: around 80%.

Max alacrity uptime from a single mesmer with 100 boon duration mimic + 3 weels and chrono rune on 10 men raid: around 70%.

Put down some maths:
0.8x(50)= 40%
0.7x(40)= 28%
so the average dmg addition in raid due to quickness + alacrity is around 34%

REALITY = 34%

KARL = 66% (the double)

And you defend him?

Keep on:

Let’s add in math the skill with both cd and channeling and let’s suppose that they are the 20% of the total skill casted (they are way less than i’m 30% but i’m trying to put on your side), we will have to add to 34%:
0.2×50×40=0.41%

REALITY = 34,4%

KARL = 66% (the double)

Now let’s take into consideration that a chrono to have 100% quickness and alacrity uptime need 3 iavenger (that do 0 dmg) and need to cast wells+tw+soi+mimic etc for like 20sec every 50 sec…

let’s ask ourself how much dmg loss a chrono do compared to zerk war or ele: 50%???

Since there are 10 men in raid you can take an average of base dmg for each one of 10%.

This means chrono makes raid to lose a 5% compared to taking a war

REALITY = 29.4%

KARL = 66% (the double)

Anyway for reference:

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/35627270

27:25 sec

“basically or you have a mesmer or you have 66% dmg loss”

Xyonon.3987:

Silverkey.2078:

All unhappy at the changes to alacrity? Where did you see that?

Reducing the effect by 50% means the maximum CD reduction moves from 40% to 25%. That is less than 50% effectiveness loss in a sense then. Yes, it will also be harder to reach full alacrity because some cooldowns will be higher. But it’s really not that bad.

In the coming days (hours) I’m sure some people will estimate the alacrity uptime we can reach with that. And we will then most likely see that mesmer is still viable.

The lost of effectiveness it’s not “less than 50%” it’s 60%.

As i wrote on other thread you are totally taking off from your maths they cascade effect of less CDR on chrono skill in raid enviroment.

Stop spread false statement. Do math before write, thx.

doombreaker.3710:

Well aelfwe is totally right. They don’t even seem to know what they are doing. Moreover, having one or two chronos in a team should never be anything critical. But then again they feel the pressure of everyone complaining that pvp pro leagues are pointless with 2 bunker mesmers per team. Nevertheless, this should never be a reason to destroy a class in PvE.

They should split pvp balance from pve balance or they should warning costumers that hot is supposed to be a game based upon pvp where balance would not take into consideration pve consequences instead promoting raid and chrono for months.

Since i don’t mind of pvp and i’ve bough hot for raid+chrono if they bring away from me that 2 stuff they prometed for months i just see refund as the only last option stand.

I hope that this won’t happens, but as a pve player who bought hot to play as a chrono i can just wait and see if the product they sold me it’s the same they promised me.

Xyonon.3987:

Heya!

Announcement says that alacrity shall be nerfed from 66% faster recharge to 33% faster recharge. This means instead of 1.66s per 1s it’s now 1.33s.

100% alacrity uptime now: -40% CDR
100% alacrity uptime soon: -25% CDR

I think it’s justified, but I’d like to hear your toughts

Greez!
- Madame Le Blanc

Right now 100% alacrity uptime isnt possible on a raid (10 men) enviroment.

After nerf the alacrity effect nerf will impact on alacrity uptime on a raid enviroment with a 30-35% reduction(elementary school math)

The 30% reduction of alacrity uptime on a raid enviroment added to the alacrity effect nerf bring the nerf to move CDR from -40% to a -16,5% CDR.

In a raid enviroment it’s a 60% nerf of alacrity and not a 40% nerf as you stated.

You are totally ignoring the cascade effect on your tought, this nerf is a 30% stronger of what you stated

Snow.9862:

This issue is going to be discussed to death in coming days as we’re all unhappy at the changes to Alacrity, but the reason I’m making this topic as someone who rarely frequents the forums it that I’m concerned that the Developers haven’t considered the cascade effect of the alacrity change.

If the goal was to nerf the effectiveness by 50% then that’s not what has happened here, the effect itself is weaker, fine, but now the Mesmer has longer cd’s on everything, also lowering our ability even generate Alacrity at all. This toning down will result in a larger than 50% loss because we can’t keep up our previous uptime and will impact other aspects of our gameplay more than I believe is intended. I’d suggest at this time making alacrity stronger on the casting mesmer but I realise that may not be possible or desirable.

During streaming karl said that:

1) one mesmer makes raid to do 66% more dmg

Reality: alacrity makes skill recharge faster of 66% aka 40% less cd.

So IF every class in raid would be able to always cast cd based skill without NEVER using autoattack AND IF the raid would have no rev (or thief in future) AND IF the chrono would be able to hold up 100% uptime alacrity on other people (that is actually impossible) and IF alacrity would apply on all 10 raid member instead of just five cause target cap THEN alacrity would bring to just a 40% dmg increase.

In the reality since none of this stuff is possible alacrity bring around 25% more dmg on raid and not 66% as you stated, dear karl.

After nerf, alacrity would bring less than one half of that 25% more dmg due to the cascade effect on the skill cd that bring alacrity.

Basically alacrity will mathly become worste than a frost spirit.

2) karl stated that, due to that 66% moar dmg, every party bring a chrono an this is not fair!

karl also said that if anet would just reduce alacrity duration instead alacrity effect then people would bring 2 mesmer in raid, and that’s way worste!!!!11!!!

Now i dont get why having 3/4 war and 2/3 ele isnt an issue (in fact karl buff them) while having a single chrono in raid is such a bad thing that deserve a buff.

But then since you are speaking at devs who say stuffs like these on a public stream without realizing by theirself what they’re doing, then i suggest you to just let anet doing his nerf as they want.

Let anet kill chrono for no reason as they want to do.

Then if the class they promoted for months as alacrity based class would become unplayable in hot promoted content, and it will, for a weirldy dumb unneccessary nerf at 1st patch after release…

Well.. If you’ve bough hot to play the class they promoted for months, and that class is not working due to unneccesary nerf, just ask refund as i will.

All raid bosses in farm mode from second week after raid release, total drop:

2x insights (dont remember the exact numbers, was twenty and something)
1 mini gorsie
2 mini vg
1 heavy ascendend leggin (on mesmer)
1 healer chest

tons of level 7x exotics with craps runes\sigil in it —> average price at tp 70/80s

Basically counting time spent + food used while raiding since release i prolly have spent more golds of what i gained from rewards xD

Rym.1469:

Warrior sucks in PvP beacuse it’s theme is outdated for melee profession in GW2 PvP. Anet loves their newbie profession, they just don’t have a clue how to update it.

Anyway, Balance preview today.

Pvp side, from release till now, war is the 2nd class who has been in “meta” for the longer time after guard, so complaining about anet lack of war love just cause for 2 month it has been out of pvp meta (while being one of the 2 top dps class in pve) it’s a bit weird.

There are class who have been 5x longer than war out of pvp meta (while being out of pve meta too) who complained way less to have been not viable for a year or more than warrior right now for a couple of month.

But i understand this and it’s not that the point.

The point is that from a rational perspective of a day one player, pvp in this game is the place where i have seen the moist weird things in my nerd career

Spirit ranger, dummfire necro, hambow warrior, s/p thief, stun war, celestial ele, pu mesmer, turret engie and so on till now with chrono bunker, meditrap guard etc.

Every person with a bit of experience in this game know that from release till now there hasn’t been a single pvp meta who has not been based upon ridicolous op broken builds.

This is the main reason gw2 pvp as esport is the saddest thing ever, with less view than a random early access game and the need to put daily into to push pvers to join it to lower queue times (do you remember the pvp queue how has been in the past for a team arena? xD)

As lendruil correctly said, till anet doesnt split pve balance from pvp balance this fact won’t change.

We will always have a bronken pvp based upon broken class with broken build as we had from release till now.

So, for my own perspective, since i can’t have a good pvp in this game cause anet isn’t splitting balance and the only thing that change in pvp with a balance patch about “broken class” is the “class” part and not the “broken” part, after 3 year i don’t see any reason to keep ruining pve for it.

NikeEU.7690:

aelfwe.4239:

It’s so sweet how anet look at their most liked child

So much love

I take it you haven’t gone into PvP lately.

Well…

…Since we are into “Fractal, Dungeon & Raid” subforum…

…and this thread is named “[Raids] Burnzerkers Meta, 40% higher damage”…

..Yeah, i think you can reasonably assume i’m speaking about Raid and not about Pvp

xD

When wars are more op than usually it’s so cute watching anet struggling to find a way to reduce war opness without touching it xD

They nerf other classes and buff just to reduce war opness and raid dps without touching war.

It’s so sweet how anet look at their most liked child

So much love

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

All’s well that ends well is a terrible trait that promotes spamming wells for the traits rather than the wells effects

Come on this is not true and you know that

You cast your wells for the effect they have (alacrity, quickness, distorsion, aoe heal\remove condition) and WHILE casting it you give alacrity trough this trait.

It could be something you don’t like but the reason they’ve taken “casting wells” rather than “shatter” or “doing x” as main alacrity source it’s because in this way to take advantage of alacrity you are forced to be on a wells build.

If you remove this trait you remove alacrity from the game, if you replace this trait with something else like “put 2 sec alacrity on shatter” you would have same alacrity as now with free utility choice, aka more build diversity and some of them would be something really op xD

I’d like too, ofc, who wouldnt?

Anyway coming back to dev block, i was expecting something like alacrity’s reduction cd reduced from 40% to 20%.

I wasn’t expecting it because it is a deserved nerf or a good thing to do.

I was expecting it because condie war is (pve side) a ridicolous pathetic op build that should be nerfed but, since i play since release, i know that when there is a ridicolous pathetic op build that is played from many people (usually warriors) anet never nerf it.

Anet nerf the less played class around the op class to reduce party\raid dmg as chrono right now xD

Having a condiezerker meta with warrior covering 3-5 spot on 10 in raid (aka 30%-50%) and chrono 1 (aka 10%) and read about a “balace” patch who nerf chrono and buff warrior is something who makes me feel being stupid just for having read it.

On a side note this game deserve to split pvp balance from pve balance, we need skill\trait to have different effect, duration and balance between the 2 games modes.

I start being tired to have pve ruined from crap pvp change while pvp itself has always been in so bad state that barely reach 30 view on “e-sportz” match.

Slipt them or remove one of the 2 game modes, keep balancing them togheter is the only way to unbalance both of them

The biggest issue is that we actually are totally garbage till they fix, so it’s not a marginal thingy, we’ve lost our base spec mechanic with an unusefull bug fix

Tooltip says that cs is intended to grant additional duration for every illusion you have up while using it.

Actually it give flat 1,5 sec duration regardless the number of illusion you have up.

This totally break up class’ mechanic.

Fix it and next time before patching a “2 patch note” patch be sure that the 2 patch note actually work

Scyn.1304:

Let’s hope this will get fixed soon, this is a huge hit to the class mechanic.

It totally trash chrono class on raid side.

Till not fixed no reason to keep logging.

Nice job anet

savacli.8172:

Actually, it is true. Once a duration based boons hits its capped (9 stacks) all other sources to stack onto that boon are ignored until you drop back down to 8 stacks.

Is there any updated reference about this one outside gw2wiki?

Because i dont feel stack cap is something who is actually reliable on soi rotation.

From my own test in 5 men party with 50% boon duration when i use common pyro build without soi\chronomancer runes i have nearly 100% (a bit less) quickness uptime on my mates from when i cast cs to when cs is rdy again (with illusion line).

When i do the same test in 5 men party with 50% boon duration + chrono runes and soi (and illusion line) when cs is rdy again my mates have still around 30 sec (average, sometimes a bit more sometimes a bit less) of quickness up which is nearly as much as you should expect from soi.

Test it out on your own in game and you will see.

In general btw you are goin using soi for a raid share build who suppose you arent in a full party to catch as much different people as possible so that is kinda impossible to reach the stack.

Using a raid share build on a 5 men party isnt the smartest thing ever xD

Ah and do not forget that the stack critical point is during the cs well bomb rotation who take up to around 7 sec to be totally done.

During the 1st part (before cs expires) when you cast soi with 100% (94%) boon duration people will have

2 stack from tw
1 stack from tot (the 1st expires if you start with it)
1 stack from woa

Total 4 stack (not 8 )

In the while you will have
2 stack from tw
1 stack from tot (the 1st expires if you start with it)
1 stack from woa
2 stack from chrono runes

Total 6 stack

When you cast 1st soi you can burn up max 1 stack of quickness if what you stated is true, but i suggest you to give a test in game and check it

FJSAMA.2867:

2- any stack of quickness won’t apply if target capped even if you are trying to apply a longer/bigger stack than any of those currently applied

This is not true.

When target is capped the newest stack subscrive the older ones who totally change what your saying here.

blakdoxa.7520:

As some others mentions alacrity makes chronomancer one of the best supports

You forget to mention that we are also one of the worst dps classes, in a game where there are classes like war or rev who brings mandatory support aswell (facet of nature, might, fury, banners) while bringing 1.5/2x dps compared to chrono.

You also forget to mention in wvw there are only revenant, in pvp after the chronobunker nerf we actually sliding out of meta and in raid (pve endgame) we are holding not more than 1 spot over 10 while there are 3 classes (rev\war\ele) who actually bring from 6 to 8 spot by themself.

2/3 spot for warrior
2/3 spot for rev
2 spot for ele (sometimes 3 too)
1 spot for chrono

But yeah you’re right man, xxxx there are classes that brings 3x spot while chrono hold just 1, alacrity\chrono should be nerfed!!!

blakdoxa.7520:

not to mention their ability to fulfill a tank role due to wells and continuum shift.

You forgot to say even every other classes of the game can tank and that they’re tanking aswell.

Sabetha doesnt have any tank required and i’ve succesfully done the other 2 bosses with chrono tank, druid tank, engie tank, rev tank, war tank and even an ele tank.

There’s youtube filled of video of people doing all bosses using all the classes to tank, There is gorseval no updraft record with a druid tanking, there is 5 men vale guardian kill with a war tanking..

But yeah you’re right man, xxxx all classes can\are tanking, chrono shouldnt and should be nerfed\remove alacrity FTW.

blakdoxa.7520:

There ARE going to be more elite specs in the future and just HOW will Anet even begin to make another spec on par with chronomancer?

<cut>

There’s only two possibilities I can think of: either chronomancer gets nerfed to the ground to make the upcoming spec more appealing (i.e. sell dat xpac) OR the new spec is so ridiculously op that chronomancer put on a shelf (i.e. power creep).

You forget to say anet promised to add trait\new spec\new classes at gw2 release.

You forget to say anet took 3 years to add 1st spec\new classes in gw2 (with hot).

You also forget to say there’s no eta about any new spec and that, if anet is 3x times more faster than has been till now, we will have to wait 1 year to see other specialization.

But yeah you’re right man, it doesnt mind the present where actually chrono isnt by far nearly to be one of the strongest classes of the game. It doesn’t mind we hold 1 spot while there are 3 classes who are actually op and who hold between 2 or 3 spots… anet should nerf chrono\remove alacrity NOW for the future to avoid the dramatic option that if\when they will add some actually unknowed new specialization chorno could be op!!!

blakdoxa.7520:

Believe me when I say there are going to be more nerfs.

yeah! anet should really take you into account for a balance team job!

Eponet.4829:

aelfwe.4239:

6- alacrity doesnt reduce of 66% skill cd to everyone. 66% reduction is the cd reduction when alacrity is always up, but since alacrity it’s not affected from boon duration or boon share the only way you have to share it to your mates are wells and shield phantasm. In pvp there isnt a single chrono bunker build which is by far near to bring 100% alacrity uptime on mates. Moreover the alacrity effect of reducing skill cd works in opposite direction on skill reduction cd trait lowering their effort (9 years old math, hope you can get it). The result is that in a pvp match from a bunker chrono who play perfectly you can expect a 30%-40% cd reduction on mates and not a 66%.

It’s actually only a 40% effective cooldown reduction when alacrity is up 100% of the time.

yeah sorry, that lead on more realisti 20%-25% reduction on mates on pvp

Mak.2657:

I mean at starting rotation (till not engaged in fight) you have free swap which allows to summon another illusion (like summon phantasm 1, swap weapon before it hit boss, summon phantasm 2 and swap back without CD).

Ahh sorry i got it now

iavenger —> switch to sw\sw before it hit --> iduelist —> ileap for clone --> precast tw + f5 + switch to shield start cs rotation

Mak.2657:

Nah, I still prefer runes of chronomancer with SoI. I just don’t feel the need of extra boon duration right now – with my current group we easily farms all 3 bosses.
Probably I will just swap one of my current sigils to SoC if/when it will less expensive.

Well i want to be honest about raid, there’s anything really needed

We take 1,5 hour average for full clean on monday, vg phase out at 7:xx, gorsie phase before cc, sabetha with just 1 flame wall and so on…

There’s so much additional time left in bosses you can go as you want, i mean, if you arent lf noupdraft gorsie or some kind of challange being optimal isnt required.

Boon duration can be rougly tanslated in raid dps who can be rougly translated in “time left when you kill boss”, boon duration start to be important when you lack dps (pug) or when you do challenge (no updraft) or if you like to do smooth optimal things.

So i dont blame whoever chose other way different than concentration sigil, i just “fix” when i read stuff like “commander meta” because pushing people to farm 600 ore for something who isnt required and isnt optimal it’s just missleading

Knox.8962:

Is the sigil bugged and giving more than 7/9s uptime under ideal circumstances?

Nope, it’s not bugged, but the weapon switch fit perfectly with the chrono rotation so it’s not really an huge deal to deal with it

Mak.2657:

aelfwe.4239, can you give an example of sigil of concentration rotation? Sw/sw +sw/sh, no initial clones, no free weapon swap (I mean no weapon swap with 0 CD like at start of a fight)

There’s no difference between starting rotation and normal rotation, you have 2 weapon switch for eachone of the 3 chrono rotation step, whenever you find yourself stucked with no weapon swap with 0 cd it’s your bad.

1st cd wait it’s 18 sec —> you weapon switch 2 times

2nd cd wait it’s 24 sec —> you weapon switch 2 times

Basically if you miss one of the 2 weapon switch between the rotation step you kittened your whole rotation.

Don’t miss them and /win

But still if you dont like sigil of concetration then go for surgey, commander gear it’s the way to get boon duration who makes you lose more stat except you are tanking

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Not everyone who weighs in on something is taking a side in the larger debate.

It’s kinda sad using “everyone who weighs in on something” on opinion debate

But luckly they’ve taken side in the thread i linked above and in the link i’ve posted there at the end <3

Want me to quote them? Would be funny xD

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Bonus: Mesmer using the sigil and chrono runes =)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3xhs8k/king_5_man_vale_guardian_kill/cy4rnpj

Yeah, and even on gorsi no updraft mesmer is using sigil of concentration + chrono rune.

The funny part is that the day after hot release when i started to write here about how good chrono rune are there were “forum’s heroes” telling me that chrono rune arent worth.

The funny part is that when 25 days ago i wrote here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Raids-and-Chrono-stats/first how good was the sinergy between sigil of concentration+chrono rune+soi+inspiration soi with math to demonstrate it, i had “forum’s heroes” again telling me they weren’t needed.

Now at the end instead of having people telling “hey you were right concentration is good!” we are still here with people speaking about how marginal is sigil of concentration xD

Anyway:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Meta is not about perfect optimization, meta is about what is the accepted upper standard, which tends to follow optimization by nature, but it’s not a perfect correlation.

Expecting everyone to spend 100g for a marginal benefit is probably not meta because it won’t be a common expectation.

In short: if it won’t be expected, it’s not meta, even if it’s a little better.

If meta is perfect optimization then you’d go for concentration+chrono.

If meta is following the nature you’d go for surgey.

In both case you wont go for commander or leadership cause they are nothing more than the moist uneffective way to get boon duration compared to other 2 options.

Then, since surgey cost nothing and they are still better than commander and leadership (by math) i’d call commander gear\leadership rune the “stupid option” rather than “meta” xD

Ok, but if people doest want to spend 100 gold for sigil it’s fine but they should NOT claiming for a subpar option to be the “meta”.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Raids-and-Chrono-stats/page/2#post5835578

There isnt a single reason to go with commader gear by math.

There isnt a single reason to go with leadership runes by math.

You need 50% boon duration in party and 94% in raid.

The way who allow you to reach 94%boon duration in raid losing less dps as possible is sigil of concentration.

If you dont want to pay 100 gold then go with surgey runes and 1 doublon.

Leave out commander crap.

Jski.6180:

It is a bit to powerful for a game like this with no real cost system to cast ability. Its ok to make things go off faster but to simply say your ability are 66% lower cd with no real down fall makes it the strongest effect in the game. You cant even counter it with a strip or effects that do more dmg vs ppl with boons.

Jski.6180:

Well no chill not an counter to alacrity its more like alacrity is an counter to chill ontop of condition removal. The true counter for boons is converting boon striping and “do high dmg to ppl with boons” effects. Alacrity is like the old quickness its not a true boon so it brake the build in boon counter system.

I am still think the powerful boons (stab quickness resistances) should not be something you can boon share nor should they be effected by boon duration but should be strip-able and i think alacrity should fall into this powerful boon effect.

1- alacrity it’s NOT a boon, it’s a specific class effect under the chategory “buff”, as spirit, auras, venom, banners etc.

Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect

2- exactly like others buff profession effect it is shared to other people (frost spirit effect, sun spirit effect, war banners and aura).

3- exactly like others buff profession effect there isnt specific counter to them (have you ever seen a counter for a war banner? or for a frost spirit? you cant counter the profession buff itself you can just counter the effect —> chill on alacriy, weekness on frost spirit and so on).

4- exactly like others buff profession effect, alacrity, venom, banner, spirit or aura are NOT boon stripable. It can suprise you but BOON striping use work agaisnt BOON not agaist BUFF.

5- alacrity exaclty like others buff proffession isnt affected from boon duration and boon share.

6- alacrity doesnt reduce of 66% skill cd to everyone. 66% reduction is the cd reduction when alacrity is always up, but since alacrity it’s not affected from boon duration or boon share the only way you have to share it to your mates are wells and shield phantasm. In pvp there isnt a single chrono bunker build which is by far near to bring 100% alacrity uptime on mates. Moreover the alacrity effect of reducing skill cd works in opposite direction on skill reduction cd trait lowering their effort (9 years old math, hope you can get it). The result is that in a pvp match from a bunker chrono who play perfectly you can expect a 30%-40% cd reduction on mates and not a 66%.

Now i dont know how you aren’t shamed of keeping to express opinions without just taking a while to get the basic information about stuff you are speaking off, but regardless you can feel “right” about this attidute it i aware you that you arent making a good job on yourself.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Bro, the guy you are quoting was agreeing with you, that alacrity is a good thing.

OMG i missunderstood all, i took his example of what people say as his though, my bad.

I’m really really sorry Drayos, sorry again, i just get mad seeing a mesmer asking a suiciding stuff like remove alacrity :/

savacli.8172:

Even if you take away Alacrity from Chronos, the elite spec still made us stand out.

In raid, as a mesmer, you are there for quickness and alacrity.

In istance, as a mesmer, you are there for quickness and alacrity.

All other things you are mastering as a mesmer are things you can master aswell with other classes while bringing more dmg , more boons and more support compared to mesmer.

The 1st example is reflect.

We are still the best @reflecting but with hot everything is changed.

Now we have revenant which makes more dmg than us, which brings more boons than us with reflect.

Now we have ranger aviable, which bring more dmg than us, which bring more boons than us with spotter and frost.

Even dragon hunter if we lose alacrity and quickness would bring more dps, boons and support than us losing alacrity and quickness.

Now do not missundertand me:

I love mesmer, i play it since preaccess, i’m around 5k/played with it or even more and i’ve never stopped to play it, even on the darkest mesmer meta spot and i would still keep playing it even without alacrity and quickness.

But still when i think at good possible setups of the raid i’m farming with spirit vale (not the best but it took us just 3 hour for full clean this week) i really dont find a place, a spot or a single reason to bring a chrono without alacrity\quickness, regardless the chrono it’s me, you or the best mesmer ever.

I’d like too more build diversity, but not at the price to kill the only competitive viable pve build we have at the moment.

Drayos.8759:

i disagree, i feel like alacrity should have been added, having these niche buffs that proffessions bring to raids really highlights their usefulness and bring more variety, more proffessions need these little additions to mean they’re more important then just standard DPS.

You can disagree but a fact is a fact and wont change just cause you disagree with it:

Mesmer is actually taken in party or raid just for quickness and alacrity, if you remove them then mesmer\chrono won’t be taken in raid anymore.

The way you are speaking of balance just under a “general point of view” without taking into account the specific situation of the class you are speaking off in every specific istanced contents that this game is offering, show off either an absolute superficial way to intend “balance” as much as a total unknowledge of the istanced content of this game, of what that content requires as well of what all classes do.

It’s also pretty weird how putting out a class (who is actually holding not more than 1 place) from raid\istance setup could be in your sight a “good” balance proposal.

Drayos.8759:

the flaw is they added it to the elite and not the core proffession, i feel the same way about ALOT of the Elites new mechanics, 99% of the problem with the fact elites are replacing core proffessions is that the new mechanics are so much more stronger then the base proffession, the Elite should have Just been a trait line everything else should have been given to the core proffession.

this would have made variety so much easier to balance, if they just Simply Upgraded the Mechanic of the proffession as a whole and the Elite being just the trait line as a stand alone thing.

The idea is a scarey one, to change what the player actually gets after the expansion release, but tbh, as a whole the community seem pretty against this Elite > Core aspect brought with these new toys, so i feel like a change in this would not only boost the variety the combinations and adaptation to teams and comps but make the general population much happier.

You are speaking as before hotm there were not meta build and meta classess.

If before hotm people doing istance\fotm wouldnt being LF specific class with particular build you would be right.

Sadly before hotm people was LF particular class with specific build exactly how now in hotm people is LF particular class with specific build.

With hotm nothing is changed except the specific builds people is lf for (in the case of mesmer before hot NONE after hotm CHRONO —- no need to be a wise sage to understand that between “none” and “one”, “one” is better than “none”).

This fact it’s enough to explain how much absurd and illogical is your tought.

Drayos.8759:

Also as much as everyone says “game should hold perks over f2p players” it’d reduce the difference in power between a f2p to a Paid player, i know that it isnt always the greatest thing to look at but at the end of the day u wont sell someone a game who sees nothing but death due to lacking the additions.

The difference between f2p players and paid player is the 30 bucks in 3 years you need to buy the single BUY TO PLAY expansion released in 3 years in a game who has been a BUY TO PLAY game for 3 years long.

People who is actually f2p gw2 without realizing gw2 is a b2p game that is just allowing you to try out the base game before buying the expansion and not a ftp browser game is really out of the world.

Drayos.8759:

I do hope A-net reliese this and do maybe Seperate it alittle rather then nerfing every elite down to try and balance it out, cause all we will get is the oppisite, elites will be useless while the core proffessions being the power, i’d enjoy to see what would happen if people could combine shield with other traitlines and things like that.

Asking to have more pve meta aviable build diversity like war got (they can go viper berserk or PS) is NOT asking to destroy the single working build we have (chrono) removing alacrity.

Your goal is good, the way you want to reach it is selfdescrutive.

Nightmare.1234:

I play a main Mesmer and refuse to use a chronomancer because of the inclusion of alacrity. people will see it as a great thing because it helping with improved dps. but it not healthy for the game as it makes people want chronos over standard mesmers.

chrono is great and with its f5 does it really need another way of refreshing cooldowns.
its main application is through traits (except the one phanstam) so it can be easily removed or replaced by more quickness application.

some people want it nerfed but nerfing it will make it pointless and will weaken chrono it just needs alternative traits that give the chrono something different in place of the alacrity. also I bet this unique ability hard balance for anyway since it given to others

if some traits where changed this is what I would do.

flow of time – grant yourself super speed when shattering 2 seconds (giving you 6 seconds max)

improved alacrity – change it to time heals all – when you have quickness you regenerate health per second

swap the phantasm to give quickness instead of alacrity

and then just change well of recall to something unique like teleport Mesmer to the well centre when it ends just like a blink maybe blasting the radius on arrival for blast finisher.

Mesmer/chrono will always be wanted for quickness application but they don’t need reduced skill cool down also.

if some of these elite specs were culled back a bit ( the heavy dps bringers) then maybe they could reduce the raid boss health pools a bit and make all the classes a little more wanted ( not every build but back to how it was before HOT minus the ranger and necro hate)

I cant see this happening but I still wish they never added it in first place.

When i read thread like this i feel bad and got scared about how much clueless self destructive human being can be.

I know it’s a game and so on…

But why? What’s the need of a “statement” like “alacrity should of never been added”?

Let’s give a look to fact, because everyone can express his own opinion but would be nice to think about it before speaking:

1) Before hotm mesmer didnt had a spot on pve istanced content. We were there just for “when reflect is needed\portal botting” or friendship or being good\better than pugs with proper classes.

2) The starting point of “good balanced istanced pve game” is a game who grant a spot (or the option to get it) for every class in the game (rathen than “lf 3 ele”). This statement is so elementary than none can negate it.

So Before Chrono\alacrity we didnt had a spot and our balance compared to other classes sucked.

Now i don’t know whoever done the mesmer specialization class in hotm but, whoever done it, has made (under an istanced pve point of view) an amazing wonderfull job (and i’m playing mmo from 10+ years old).

This is a fact not an opinion.

Chrono’s dev (& alacrity) have taken a subpar-out of meta pve class and grant it a role and a spot, without making it as much rendundant or op to push people to desire to have more than 1 chrono in party\raid.

They made chrono in way chrono brings the 2 strongest buff (dps wise) of the game (alacrity and quickness) while, at the same time, chrono is the class who take less advantage from these 2 buffs.

It’s really a wonderfull and elegant solution, because in this way for the 1st time in the last 2 years mesmer got a spot in raid and party without being so much op to push people lf for 2 or 3 of them (like is actually happenig for war, ele or rev in raid).

Now checking the raid common composition trough the 3 bosses of the raid there is just druid who is in the same position as chrono (you want a druid but not 3 of them).

If you’d really interested on the state of pve meta balance you would ask anet to work on thief\guard\necro in way to allow them the get a spot too in istance\raid in place of the 2nd (or 3rd) war\ele\rev you usually see in raid.

Instead, you are asking for destroying and make chrono to lose its own single spot that got in raid\istance right now (because this is what will happen removing alacrity\changing AWTEW or changing quickness like you ask) because “you don’t like to play it”.

Now i can understand that you don’t like a particular meta class’ build but till the class itself is balanced (and chrono it’s balanced because you won’t see any single party\raid LF 2nd chrono and you can’t negate this) i find that asking to change it because “you don’t want to play it”, with the result of putting the class itselff out of meta+losing its single spot, it’s childish and selfish.

Because behind any words if you don’t like chorno you can just reroll another class with a build you like, like all other people do, rather than asking to destroy the class itself ruining the fun of the other 99% of people that are actually enojoying it without filling more than 1 spot for raid\party with chronos.

It tooks me a week to get “eternal” title just joining full pugs raid.

And i have a work, a gf and i play only in the evening and not everyday.

So yeah, raid are casual friendly

joeytan.3865:

aelfwe.4239:

rchu.8945:

hi,

can someone share some raid builds?

thanks.

Hi, since i have no time\will of puttin down a guide i suggest you to give a look at this thread that a guy posted yesterday

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3vl5nz/sc_mesmer_builds_for_raids/

it’s a good recap of what we were writing here 1 week ago.

Just to check the the raid quickness build says that I should have sigil of concentration on my main hand. Since its a weapons swap sigil and the main hand weapon doesnt technically swap, does the increase in boon duration actually still apply

raid quickness is the build i used to play around since raid release and who granted me “eternal” title so it’s more than viable

I think it’s the best one to be honest.

anyway weapon swap sigil apply on main hand even if it doesnt technically swap.

It works for every “on swap” sigil

rchu.8945:

hi,

can someone share some raid builds?

thanks.

Hi, since i have no time\will of puttin down a guide i suggest you to give a look at this thread that a guy posted yesterday

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3vl5nz/sc_mesmer_builds_for_raids/

it’s a good recap of what we were writing here 1 week ago.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

aelfwe.4239:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

J
“shield is mandatory for raid share cause 5th skill with 100% boon duration will bring 24s of quickness for every person in raid (and for sure, caust ToT doesnt have 5 men cap).”

This sentence it’s not a general statement as it seem from your quote.

This sentecence is related to a specific build and rotation who in explained along several post with diffent hypotesis who arent secret and who are explained in numbers.

If you’d check them you’d seen that shield effort is counted around 80%.

Since we’re speaking of the biggest slowest aimed on target directionable chrono skill i think 80% is a result average mesmer can handle.

But if 80% (8 person) is too much for you can reduce it simply by substracting 2,5% on raid quickness uptime final result (87.5%) for every person you deal to miss with 5th shield skill.

In general btw if you deal to miss more than 5 people/cast in average i suggest to give up lf better build

I think 8 people is expecting a bit too much. It’s not like your teammates are going to be stacked up all the time in a neat little ball that never moves where you just have to aim your shield 5 at.

Mmh, that’s reasonable,

Reducing it:

Takin into account to take just 6 people rather than 8 reduce raid uptime average to 81%

Takin into account to take just 5 people rather than 8 reduce raid uptime average to 77.5%

Thx for the point!

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

J
“shield is mandatory for raid share cause 5th skill with 100% boon duration will bring 24s of quickness for every person in raid (and for sure, caust ToT doesnt have 5 men cap).”

This sentence it’s not a general statement as it seem from your quote.

This sentecence is related to a specific build and rotation who in explained along several post with diffent hypotesis who arent secret and who are explained in numbers.

If you’d check them you’d seen that shield effort is counted around 80%.

Since we’re speaking of the biggest slowest aimed on target directionable chrono skill i think 80% is a result average mesmer can handle.

But if 80% (8 person) is too much for you can reduce it simply by substracting 3% on raid quickness uptime final result (87.5%) for every person you deal to miss with 5th shield skill.

In general btw if you deal to miss more than 5 people/cast in average i suggest to give up lf better build

Mak.2657:

I trying to do raid without shield now.

Not using a shield in raid is a solid option

When i said “shield is mandatory” it was only related at raid quickness share build (the one we’re speaking now)

Mak.2657:

aelfwe.4239:

If that’s not enough you can add another soi that are 120 more sec.

I’m not sure if there is space for 4th SoI (usually using it after 30s CD WoA +3s). And why 120s?

I explain like hell sorry.

Another soi doent mean a 4th soi’s cast.

It mean to take both utility soi and both soi from inspiration trait.

This basically double the soi cast from 3 to 6 cast.

120s comes from your analizys, i take it 2x in account due to 2x soi cast.

Mak.2657:

and other member are 8 so to achieve 100% you need an average of being hitted 1 times each 2,67 mesmer skill (8/3).

Don’t get it. Can you elaborate?
[/quote]

3/8 × 100 = 37.5% chance for a single persone in a sample of 8 people to get affected from a single mesmer skill in 2 men party

1/0.375 = 2,77 is the average number of exctration (mesmer skill) required to verify the event "being affected)

aka on average if you cast 1 soi 1 tw 1 woa 1 specific person in average would be affected from one of these (i specific again, average)

@kubertz

Sorry i didnt know that druid heal wasnt priorized, and if it’s intedend or it’s a bug or what nike said and to be honest doesnt mind

I just wanted to make an example to try to explain out why you could want to not fullfill chrono party if you’re aiming for raid quickness sshare.

Anyway quickness is priorized as grace of land so the druid example could not be perfect but the result doesnt change.

In general anyway if you want to use video as example of “how to play properly a druid” be aware to NOT put video like these one from dnt where druid is playing using bugged spirits who actually proc on pet rather than players.

It’s not about Dnt, they’re wonderfull players.

It’s about hot that has been released just a couple of month ago and meta has still to be fixed (and bug too).

Im 100% sure dnt and everyone else in 2 month will play in totally differnt way.

@mak

Mak.2657:

So it would be like 404s out of 416. BUT it is for ideal conditions when Quickness spreads ideally between 8 other members. Have doubts about it.

It is true it’s ideal and you did a great job BUT…

shield is mandatory for raid share cause 5th skill with 100% boon duration will bring 24s of quickness for every person in raid (and for sure, caust ToT doesnt have 5 men cap).

24s of quikness x 8 people =192s

Here we are at 404+192 = 596s out of 416

If that’s not enough you can add another soi that are 120 more sec.

596s+120=716s out of 416

Moving from your 404s out of 416s to fully 716s out of 416 grant you 300 “free second”.

Now analizer it:

Since Tot hit everyone and isnt random you can take it off from both side of equation:

716-192=524s and 416-192=224s

So at the end we have 524s out of 224s.

524s/224s=2.34

In other words to achieve 100% a single member of the other 8 need to be affected 1 times each 2,34 mesmer skill.

Now you are in 2, and other member are 8 so to achieve 100% you need an average of being hitted 1 times each 2,67 mesmer skill (8/3).

2,34 on 2,67 can roughly be traslated in 87,5% quickness uptime on whole raid with 100% boon duration and chrono 2men party.

And this is on average not ideally.

Xyonon.3987:

Why does the mesmer have to stay in it’s own subgroup? This is what I don’t understand.

It is due to party priorization.

It’s something like when you place druid+tank in their own subgroup.

In this way tank get priority in druid heals, but at the same time since heal skill have 5 target cap and your party isnt full then druid heal 3 different target taken from the other 8 players eachtime.

Instead if you totally fill druid\tank subgroup with 3 other guys then druid would often heal the same 5 guys due to party priorization.

Since you want to heal everyone and not just 5/10 then you put them in 2 men party.

Xyonon.3987:

@aelfe
There are subgroups. They get favorized, so yea, they are indeed the same persons I hit with my wells.

In fact, if you read again every post i’ve written till now, included the last reply i gave you i’ve clearly told everytime you have to be on your own subgroup with max 1 or 2 guys with you.

To be more exactly i wrote you:

aelfwe.4239:

If you are on 2 men party everyone of this skill will affect 3 “nearest player” for a total of 24 extraction.

The % that happens what you are assuming (the 3 “nearest person” arent random and your skills will always affect same targ) it’s 1 every 50 Millions.

I want to point out fact that the 1 chance every 50 Millions, isnt just a random number.

1 chance every 50 Millions it’s LITTERALLY the math probability that a mesmer in 2 men subgroup has to catch always the same persons with 3 woa, 1 tw and 4 soi during 48 cs cd.

Aka, 1 chance every 50 Millions is the probability that happens

Xyonon.3987:

@aelfe
There are subgroups. They get favorized, so yea, they are indeed the same persons I hit with my wells.

If the mesmer stay in 2 men party and people is moving due to boss mechanics.

So pls, if you dont get it it’s fine, but pls do not give random reply

Xyonon.3987:

Nothing there is “random”.

@xyonon

Your observation is right but your desuntion is Wrong.

We’re speaking of raid environment (aka Vale G\Gorseval\Sabetha) and not on being sticked on a golem at hotm.

If you take one of these fights you wont never cast 2 cs\wells bomb rotation in the same spot without having had the raid moving between the 2 rotation.

So basically when you say

Xyonon.3987:

Nothing there is “random”.

you are assuming that, for example, after each updraft phase of gorseval when you do your well bomb rotation in the sample of 9 player the 4 players nearest to the center of tw\Woa or nearest to yourself are always and exaclty the sames.

you are assuming that during the NO cc phase of vale guard while boss is spamming aoe and raid is hitting him while moving around there are 4 guys who are nearest to the center of tw\woa or nearest to yourself for soi are always and exactly the sames.

And so on.

So since we are speaking of 5/7 mins long fights with mechanics who FORCE raid to move we can reasonably expect that players who are nearest the center of skill\yourself when you cast a skill are RANDOM.

But since this one is a statistic issue we can even do math for that:

Every 48sec you will cast 3 woa, 1 tw, 4 soi for a total of 8 skills (i’ll be on yourside and i will count tw like a single skill and not like an 11 pulses skill)

If you are on 2 men party everyone of this skill will affect 3 “nearest player” for a total of 24 extraction.

The % that happens what you are assuming (the 3 “nearest person” arent random and your skills will always affect same targ) it’s 1 every 50 Millions.

To solve a statistic issue you have to approach it with statistic: so you have to start from the most probable result, aka everyone is affected at least 2 or 3 times (and not always or never) from your skills every 48 sec.

So you want to maximize boon duration (to maximize the result of “being affected 2 or 3 times”) and to maximize the number of quickness source (soi + chorno runes) to maximize the % that everyone is affected from a single extraction taking up the numbers of extraction.

Hope you’ll understand

watandara.6013:

Can someone elaborate on 10-men-boonsharing please?

How does that work exactly? All your skills affect 5 people, does that mean the mesmer has to be in his own subgroup? Which players are affected?

Shield 5th skill (ToT) affect everyone in raid (if hitted ofc).

So with 94%+ boon duration you can expect 4×6s=24s of quickness on everyone.

Since with illusion you have cs cd at 48s this means shield 5th shill + 100% boon duration bring 50% raid quickness uptime on its own.

So to achieve 100% boon duration on 10men raid we need to find out a way to spread out to 10 different men an average of 24 more second of quickness.

If you stay on a 5men subgroup this will never happens because your party mates will get boon priority and they will get every tw tic, every woa and every soi cast (except they are out range or dead).

To avoid this issue you need to be either on a single 10 men big group or in a small group (usually from 1 to 2 or 3 people) in way that every boon you cast is randomized between every single person and not just between your party.

Here comes where boon duration start to be REALLY important.

Since you want to score 100% quickness uptime on 10 men and whoever take quickness is random you have to change point of view.

On other words you have to find a way to stack 24 sec of quickness on 9 random target while every skill take 4 random target + yourself.

Here is where Boon Duration start to be really important:

Since you are goin to cast 3 WoA and 1 Tw (who pulse 11 times) every 48s and they’re goin to take 7/9 random target each time, then you want that the amount of quickness they grant is as longer as possible in way to maximize raid quickness coverage.

So you want WoA’s quickness to last 6sec (100% boon duration) rather than just 3sec and you alsto want that every tw pulse grant 2sec of quick rather than just 1.

At this point Chrono runes really shine.

Since you are obviusely in party with yourself and since on yourself pyro rotation grants a total quickness uptime having chrono runes with 100% boon duration trasform yourself on a quickness container.

Basically each well grant yourself 4 sec of quickness and since with 3 well you’re goin to cast 9 wells every 48 sec you will see on yourself a quickness average between 20s and 30s.

So everytimes your soi proc you will have 4 other random raid men reaching their “quickness 100% uptime”.

You will cast 3 or 4 soi from trait every cs rotation for a total of 12/16 random target hitted.

Then you can even take the signet to double the cast.

That’s why i love so much sigil of concentration, simple because it allow me to use chrono runes and that’s why boon duration is important in raid.

Anyway regardless i’m working on this setup and rotation since hot release i’m still far away for best raid subgroup composition to take max advantage from everything so discussion is opened to every improvement.

Fay.2357:

Just a quick sanity check here…

Here’s basically the rotation I do in an optimal situation. CS, wells, time warp, ToT, CS, wells, ToT. I’ll use ToT 2 more times before my next full rotation, and I’ll use the well of action 1 more time before the next full rotation.

In total, this is 4x ToT, 1x time warp, 3x well of action.

4x tides of time: 8 * 1.5s = 12s
1x time warp = 11s
3x well of action: 3 * 3s = 9s

Total: 32s quickness.

CS cooldown with illusions and alacrity = 40ish seconds

32s * 1.5 (rev facet) = 48s

So with absolutely no boon duration outside of the facet, no chrono runes, and no boon sharing, you can easily have over 100% uptime on quickness on a full 5 person party. Granted, this requires a nearly perfect rotation, but that’s not too difficult to pull off if you’re tanking. I don’t really see the point in pushing boon duration at all considering this is this case.

You don’t really see the point because you keep thinking that your basic assumption it’s not a simple assumption but a general truth who is always true by default.

To be more specific, you are thinking that “100% quickness uptime” = “grant quickness to full 5 men party”.

Now if you stop keep thinkin there is only a truth then you could start to realize that in raid there are 10 men and NOT just 5.

If this will ever happen then you will also realize that raid allow subgroup and subgroup allow to put the mesmer in his own party aiming for 100% alacrity uptime over raid (10 men) rather than just over party (5 men).

At that point you will finally understand why people here is speaking about boon duration rather than just accepting your assumption like an universal truth as you asking in every chrono related thread.

@sandy

Taking in account our goal is to achieve 94% boon duration if we do a comparison between gain\loss of rune of surging, rune of leadership and sigil of concentration we have:

Rune of leadership:
30% from runes
50% from revenant

Total: 80% boon duration.

So you need the 20% from food to achieve at least 94%

Rune of scavenging+1 platinum doublon
24% from runes+plat doublon
50% from revenant

Total: 74% boon duration

So you need the 20% from food to achieve at least 94%

Sigil of concentration:
33% from sigil
50% from revenant

Total 83% boon duration

So you need the 20% from food to achieve at least 94%

Is it a waste? sure, but it’s also a waste you have to do even with rune of surging\leadership if you want to score at least 94% boon duration.

This means that waste isnt a loss in the comparison between the 3 possible setup (leadership\surging\concentration).

Moreover if you want to stop with a lower boon duration % (not using food with the 3 setup) the concetration ones will still overhead the other ones due to the additional shared quikness from wells.

@mak
The weapon switchin isnt really an issue when you have learn a specific fight mechanic.

It’s pretty mechanical to be honest, since the standard cs rotation already force you to cast your well on specific “windows” to maximize the result, you will find pretty natural to “paste” your weapon switch on it.

And don’t forget, the equation “better result=more effort” is something we should enjoy like mesmer!!!

This is why we’re better than war /hides xD

Sanderinoa.8065:

Agreed, I am highly against using any toughness to gain boon duration, nevertheless, the scholar bonus doesnt apply to phantasms and is hard to keep up in raids. This makes me feel like getting 5 runes of surging, plus a platinum dubloon may be worth the ferocity loss to get to 99% duration.

Although i totally agree with you about the importance to get to 100% boon duration in raid i really don’t get the assumption that the best way to reach it it’s trough surgey or leadership runes.

Speaking under a min-max point of view you can score 100% boon duration just replacing surgey\leadeship runes with sigil of concentration.

Its use it’s really simple (just remember to switch weapon before start your cs rotation) and do not forget that when cs end you’ll get concentration timer back for the 2nd wall rotation.

If you use concetration sigil in place to surgey\leadership runes you can achieve:

-more personal damage (with scholar rune or similar) if you like to (not my way, but it’s an option)

or

-a tons more of quickness trough chronomancer runes and soi (which imao is the best option).

From my personal experience trough the different bosses in raid i’ve found that the sinergy between sigil of concentration+chronomancer rune+soi (via trait and\or sigil) it’s amazing.

Let do some considerations:

1) Boon duration apply to chrono 6th bonus, aka 100% boon duration = every well bring you 4sec of quickness.

2) Chrono runes doesnt have any internal cd (like someone said a while ago), that means if you have 3 wells during a standard cs rotation and related cd (48s) you gonna cast 9 wells, aka 36 additional second on quickness on yourself.

3) that 36 additional sec of quickness on yourself translate on 20s quickness average shared trough soi trait from second cs rotation.

4) the additional shared quickness in long fights with 10 men and high movement required it’s a noticeable huge boots.

5) soi trait is affected from cs, you can use it twice time in a row starting from your second cs rotation (the 1st rotation you gonna use it to summon your phantasm)

It’s enough to give it a try and you’ll be hardly come back.

On a side note if you add the soi sigil to this setup and you move to your own party (or in the party with druid if you have issue standind alive) you can aim for full raid quickness uptime rather than priorize just a party.

Anyway from both perspective (personal dps or quickness stacking depending on what your aiming for) the surgey\leadership runes setup seem me just the cheaper solution to get 100% boon duration if compared to sigil of concentration.

My 2 cents

caerulean.4837:

I’ve heard that mesmer DPS in raids is subpar compared to other professions and that we’re mostly taken for the high alacrity and quickness uptime. I just wanted to know if it’d be worth playing a mesmer in the raids, especially if there’s already a mesmer on the team, or if I’d be better off trying it out on an elementalist?

Mmh,

you can surely complete raid with 2 mesmer (some guild has already done it in that way) but yesterday defeating vale guard with pugs i was the only chrono and quickness\alacrity uptime was more than enough (we had really huge dps and good timer).

So basically you can complete raid with 2 chrono but 1 chrono is more than enough.

Personally i didnt had any issue till now to find a spot like chrono but if you want to be “the class who everyraid is LF” leave mesmer and ele and just go viper engie and gg.

ps.
i dont speak for ele cause i dont play it and i have no personal experience about how much easy or hard is to find a spot with class

Memphisjz.1405:

So before everyone goes ‘oh look another n00b crying’

I killed the Vale Guardian, but not with the character / build i like playing. (IMO, certain classes are WAY better than others for raids \cough heralds, condi engi) So then i thought ’let’s hope the rest is a bit different’.

- Escaping the ghosts is even more a DPS check
- Gorseval’s mechanic is easier than Vale Guardian but just requires even more DPS

I haven’t gotten any further, but i’m pretty sure you’ll mainly just need DPS.

Don’t get me wrong
Timers are good, as indeed you could otherwise just all be tank/healers and take 15min to kill a boss no problem.

What i would like to see
More complicated mechanics that force build diversity / synergy. You can swap skill / traits for free outside combat and between bosses. So for me, personally, raids should have mechanics like:

- Boss does a massive knockback sometimes, everyone without 2 stacks of stability is knocked out of arena and dies
- Boss has a massive attack that can only be avoided by stacking 10 stacks of blind on the boss (yes i know blind doesn’t stack, just an example)
- Boss immune to dmg, can only reflect his projectiles. Classes without a reflect would have a different role (like killing some adds or standing in certain location)
- Boss with crazy AoE patterns all the time, or just a bullet hell boss.
- Gorseval’s wall doesn’t take normal dmg, players need to throw 10 rocks into it that fall into the arena. They spawn far away so mobility is needed (teleports, etc)
- ..

You want a “challenging content” while you had just an “exclusive” content.

Rather than ask for some truly “challenging” boss mechanics you should just reroll and become a truly exclusive pro raider viper engi too :P

BaconofPigs.1683:

Currently vale guardian can be done with 3 mins remaining on the clock. The enrage timer should be about 6 mins instead of 8 mins.

Gorseval can be done with 1:30 mins remaining on the clock. Please tighten the timer by 1 mins.

A truly hardcore raider who want harder content would say:

“Raid too easy, please introduce some more challenging mechanics to bosses”

Instead you said:

“Raid too easy, please make timer tighter.”

That sounds like "i want less people complete raid so i can showing off i’m pro but i dont want a more challenging content so pls make it “harder” with moar gearcheck – raidsetup"

I suggest you to move to a serious raid based mmo to check the real meaning of “hard”

/sadface

Dondagora.9645:

I created a Resistance stacking Glamour Chrono. Works well given that BI with Continuum also shares Resistance, thus countering conditions for 30 seconds or so of the fight so long as your team stacks up.

BI?

extended name pls i dont get it

Alteraphim.4629:

It is not necessary, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. It does help, a full set of ascended gives you about a 12.5% dmg increase if you put in all the infusions you need, but you will be able to complete the raid without it. https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/31wbip/ascended_vs_exotic_gear_comparison_spreedsheet

What you say it’s true, but it’s anyway an huge advantage.

12,5% more dmg means that a “full ascended raid” will take 12.5% less time to take down a boss compared to an ipotetic “full exotic raid” with the same players,the same classes, the same builds (just exotics geared rather than ascendend geared).

Since raid’s bosses are fights with strickly enrage time the difference could be crucial.

If we take for example Vale Guardian Fight, it’s an 8 mins enraged fight.

8 min are 480 sec, 12,5% x 480sec are 60s, aka on ideal situation the same raid with full ascenden gear will take 1 less minute to defeat the boss compared to the exotic raid.

Now this is an ideal situation, cause during fight you have some downtime (boss immunity between phases, people moving for green circle and so on.

So we can suppose the realistic fight time difference between a full asc raid compared to exotic raid it’s just around 30s-40s (6%-7%) rather than the 12,5% from stat.

Point is that those more 30s-40s allow the asc raid to have some more downed or small mistake and kill anyway the vale guard while an ipotetic exotic raid need to be perfect.

So is ascended gear necessary for raid?

Imao NOPE.

If the majority of the raid is ascendend 1 or 2 exotic geared guys wont make any difference, but if the majority of the raid is exotic geared then yeah, ascendend gear becomes really really important

Quasar.1756:

You totally don’t comprehend as well as the average person, so it will take more time for me to get through to your head.

I’m sorry for your understanding shortcomings, please have fun and don’t talk to hostile creatures in dragon stand…..Hope you can understand that

Dont worry, i’m so happy to be an “average person” who comprehend what alacrity does to every class except thief rather than a “special person” who doesnt realize how subpar thief is due to that reason.

I feel lucky!

going dragon stand xD

Quasar.1756:

- You take one of many encounters and hold that against a profession.

Nope, i just told that

Galandil.9641:

And yes, under Alacrity, teef’s dps goes down the drain compared to most other classes, unless they change Alacrity giving +66% regen to ini.

Which is a fact based upon math.

If you cant deal with that and you want fight math with opinion its your choice, math doesnt mind and doesnt’ change

have fun

Quasar.1756:

Now imagine if you took all those boons, apply them to a thief and got backstabbed, we would all be at your funeral before you can finish saying “Oh Kitten!!!”. If bosses have a timer, adding two thieves to your team would get bosses from 100% to 75% faster than not having them in your group.

If you take alacrity into account thief disappear from top 5 dps class in mid-long fights.

Honestly outside some specific mechanics that raid boss could have (example: shot down stuff around the room before their number get to 10 or people will die) there arent many reason to bring a thief in party these days.

For sure dps isnt.

Fay.2357:

@Aelfwe: Just to be clear on a couple things…

You never cast time warp without CS. You use CS to reduce time warp to a 45 second cooldown, so you only use time warp while in CS. Every full CS well bomb you do will include time warp.

Well, alacrity uptime reduce tw cd to 90s average rather than 180s.

Cs allows you to cast 2 tw in 90s rather than just 1.

To be more exactly cs let you cast 2 tw every 90 sec if you cast the 2nd tw in a window of 45 after the 1st tw (1st tw is the one that you cast at beginning of cs – time bomb).

The 45sec tw cd is just the general average cd who suit better with revenant to maximixe quickness in the most of the actual content.

So you’re right but the statement it isnt always true, cause not always casting 1 tw exactly every 45sec is the better choice.

And here comes next point…

Fay.2357:

On 3s instagib trash, they’re dead by the time your wells will even do their full activations, or maybe shortly after. A couple seconds of quickness on a Mesmer isn’t going to be even the smallest boost for a group.

If during an actual boss fight you rotation is always the best, there are times when simply you dont fight a boss every 45 sec and then the trash pull before boss you wont (wisely) use tw.

Here come’s rune of chronomancer + illusionary inspiration, put down right well during pull and start cast phantasm while mob comes and ALL your party (and NOT just “mesmer”) will have quickness on every pull where with scholar you are binded to a single rotation+shield

Fay.2357:

Really the only situation I see them being worth it is something like random open world roaming where a bit of extra quickness is nice. Otherwise, not worth it.

I really really really hope that the “challenging” raid would be something real “challenging” with fight who last more than 40 sec and mechanincs who involve you to adapt rather than destroy trivialized content.

Now because “adaption” is where chrono runes win over scholar i think that i’ll be using them more than scholar.

And to be honest, our dmg in istance like mesmer (outside reflect) has always been crap compared to other class. Chronomancer spec just give us a real role in party, a buffer role with reflect rather than a portal bot with reflect.

In general i dont think that moving from the 41x % reflect dmg i have on my scholar setup to a 40x % reflect will change much at this point.

So from a side we have an unreliable utility buff but perflectly fitting with our new party\raid role (chrono rune) and on the other side we have an unrealible dmg buff who is tangible just with reflect only (scholar rune).

I still think best choice is having both setup but atm if i’d have to chose between them i’d go for chrono runes (hpoing for raid ofc)

Fay.2357:

Sanderinoa.8065:

I personally run time warp in most cases so as long as I use that first, any CS well bomb goes fine without the runes.

This is correct. Make sure time warp is the first cast in your combo, and you’ll execute the whole thing with no problems.

I was gonna grab them, then noticed the bonus is self-only and thought better of it.

Since i have 2 ascendent set (zerk and assassin) i followed the suggestion savacli gave me in the other thread and i’ve put chrono runes on one set and scholar in the other.

(my english isnt very good so i apologize if i wont be able to explain what follow properly.)

Then i’ve passed the next 4 hours closed in istance\fotm on real gameplay and on practice side i’ve noticed what follow:

-It is totally true that when you have time warp doing your fully rotation isnt an issue so when you have tw and cs rdy rune of scholar are the clearly winner.

-On long fights whenever i was able to hold up a perfect rotation to maximize alacrity uptime i have 2 cast of cs every single base cast of tw (speaking of base cooldown+alacrity). That means A) 1 well bomb with tw; —> 1 well bomb without tw --> A) 1 well bomb with time warp.

B) is where chrono runes shine cause having them allowed me to cast 2xwells\skills compared to scholar

-On 3 sec istagib trash, where summon clones\phantasm isnt the best cause you are los and trash die too fast, chrono runes wins again cause they allowed me to share quickness with inspiration while casting 2 well+shattering saving cd for next pull with cs while with scholar i could just cast 1 well+shatter due to lack of clones

At the end of the day i think best option is having 2 set like savacli said but in general i also think that chrono runes bring so much more versatily between wellbomb\tw rotation (insp buff share like sandi said for another example) that i barely will use scholar set outside heavy reflective content.

I also suspect that raid fight will last more than 40 sec and their mechanics will prize versatily of chrono rune.

Anyway this evening i will try to keep doing some test put down some number.

Sorry for my english again