agree with the two above me.. if you have decent condition removal go toughness.. without a doubt..
i sometimes roll with 12.2hp in sPvP and im tankier than if i had 18k hp due to the higher toughness. basically, if you trait shadow arts for the heals and condi removal on stealth, toughness is way better.
if your not healing alot, and dont have decent conition removal then vitality
p/p with shadow refuge is insanely good! throw in haste and unload after your sneak attack and you will find you are now full health and your opponent is dead
I’m a champ shadow running toughness stealth heal spec with valk armor and scholar runes……works well
hi rocky, how do you find having a really low hp? also what weapon sets to you use? if u dont mind me asking
From a pvp perspective, most ppl will tell u its not viable but it def is.. After a lot of practice, I think pp is best as a secondary weapon set, instead of sb.. If u added haste to your build u can kill a player in 3s at range. Very lethal
But, imo, it’s best to use pp with a melee set and switch between the two constantly.. I use leaching vemon with spider venom, if you combine that, with shadow refuge and sneak attack u steal about 4.5k of health, add that to the 2.5 k raw dmg, and 5 bleed stacks then follow up with a 6k unload.. Opponents are shocked u can do that mid fight after switching from melee… It’s a very dynamic build and tons of fun
Sneak attack does about half the damage of unload.. look at the stats
also, if traited for power/crit/precision unload can hit for 6-7k, combine that with haste and your doing 14k in 2-3 secs.. hardly underpowerred . you make a few different builds to make it work.. leaching venoms, might stacking, life stealing etc
personally, i use a melee weapon set as my main, then switch to p/p when the target is about 40% life, hit sneak attack, then unload…people die
ive been using this build for about a month (s/d daze build)
the trick to beat a thief using this build is to make them miss their c+d… its very easy to miss and if they do, they waste 6 ini and cant restealth and hence you dont get dazed.
once your stun wears off, you need to blind/stun/dodge etc to ensure he cant restealth using cloke and dagger. if you stand there and attack normally, he will very quickly stealth again and daze you again.
it must be annoying versing a player who is constantly stealthed while you are constantly dazed
we have plenty of abilities to stack might, fury, regen and swiftness and increasing the duration by upto 30% is massive
i disagree with most of you…this is just my opinion but i like this skill
after i daze them, they generally want to hit you as hard as possible as soon as the daze comes off, this is where FS is awesome, as you evade there big hit, and end up away from the damger zone and then can c+d into daze again
the boon removal is just a bonus and if you land both attacks, it can hit for 7k.. ppl complaining about the damage output are crazy.. its one of the thieves biggest damage attacks.. going on base dmg from alot of the build sites, backstab hits for 585 while FS hits for 548 (183+365).
sure the pathing of it is shockingly unpredictable so you shouldnt use it all the time. but the evade is excellent, boon removal is great and if you lucky, the damge is awesome…..if they just fixing the animation so you dont spin half way off the map, it would def be my fav skill
nice build ! very tanky with decent sustained dmg. i recommend not using SoS if you trait acro as the dodge/swiftness combo should be enough of a speed boost, just my opinion
i run s/d but go 30 into shadow arts rather than acro, totally love the build
hey dacromir.. nice job on the vid.. i dont have sound at work so i couldnt get the audio but good job with the footage..
i also run s/d with shadow arts traited. love it… so much survivability…i use the condition removal trait in spvp and now i never die from conditions. .
i also go 30 up crit line for executioner and the precision/crit dmg boost.. its just my personal opinion but i find the dmg boost is worth sacrificing all the boons you get from trickery
hey slic.. love you vids.. keep it up
do you find other thieves the hardest class to kill? if they spec shadow arts and have the condition removal on stealth, would make them a very difficult opponent 1v1
all that needs fixing is the pathing issue..
hits really hard and has a fast and reliable evade.. also rips a boon.. so i wouldnt change anything but fix the pathing issue
It definitely didn’t make [Backstab] “stronger”.
The exponential gain you could achieve from [Assassin’s Signet] on a single attack was absolutely insane and definitely needed to be nerfed somehow.
{Signets of Power}+{Venomous Strength}+{Improvisation} can max Might stacks = 875 power
{First Strikes} = 10%
{Exposed Weakness} = 10%
{Flanking Strikes} = 5%
And then you auto crit from {Hidden Killer} which can get close to doubling your damage w/ CritDmg gear.So we were looking at a ~300%+ total damage bonus.
Tack on [Assasin’s Signet] and suddenly you were looking at a 500%+ total damage bonus.Tooltip only said 50%, but because of the way damage is calculated, if you focused every ability you had on Might and CritDmg while completely ignoring all utility, the actual increase in damage you saw from popping [Assassin’s Signet] could skyrocket to nearly quadruple that.
With the change to 15%, that’s a LOT of lost damage and your Might stacks won’t last long enough to hit another 4 attacks.
However; speccing everything toward setting up that 1 single attack to see a huge number while completely ignoring utility and survivability was never practical (despite what all the whiner threads on the forums say). So who cares if it Nerfed that build.
Meanwhile it’s just as good as it always was for BS builds who pick up utility and survivability instead of concentrating completely on the exponential buildup.
And it’s actually much better for a lot of other builds than it used to be.So I would agree that it made Thief stronger overall.
i couldnt of said it better myself..
in fact.. i was using this exact technique to hit my backstab at 23 stacks of might (weapon swap + power of inertia combined with what u mentioned).
you say adopting this option was never practicle due to lack of utility etc.. well, using this technique i used the soldiers amulet.. which more than makes up for the lack of survivability. I was still hitting for +16k backstabs, with great lvls of hp and toughness.
i have now seen my backstabs go from 16k to 10k… with low precision all my other attacks are quite weak i dont even notice the +15% boost on my other attacks.. it makes my build now not practicle to use
for me personally, this is a huge nerf and its back to the drawing board to figure out a way to stay tough, and deal max pain
@turbo whale..
why the sarcastic stupid post?
its easier to do a chain of attacks then to plan and line up 1 massive hit.
let me enlighten you
with might stacking traits and sigils.. i roll twice, hit ss sig, then c+d, then infiltrator sig, then assassins sig, then weapon swap, then backstab… so im actually pressing 6-7 skills to line up the 1 hit..
i use soldiers amulet which is why i need to stack so much might and which is why my other attacks do little damage (no precision not much crit dmg).. buffing my other attacks doesnt really help me so yes its a BIG NERF
why use this method you ask? well before the patch i could deal 15k backstabs with a full tank build.
@desert rose “lol at ppl think this is a nerf”
you are kidding right ?
my build on the test golems.. (build focusses on bs)
OLD=mug 2k, c+d 1.8k BS 15k = 18.8k
NEW=mug 2.3k, 2.07k, bs 11.5k = 15.87k
approx 18 to 19% NERF
dont care what anyone says.. these are the numbers for my build, and its most def a nerf
<- Never lost to Thief on any class with 2800 or more armor.
They burst me for 8k at most, I heal, gib them, ta-da.But it’s fun to play as Thief as most people go full glass and you can gib them before they can do anything.
Perhaps this way people will learn the hard way to stack armor.Finally someone with skill here. Most of those ignorant people complaining about thief are those who get killed too fast because their brains go blank when their characters get stoned or immobilized. Every disable skills of thief are now nerfed to be breakable. YOU have no excuse now!!!
agree.. so many ways to counter a thieves backstab, and toughness is a perfect mitigation if you miss you stunbreak.
agree.. so many ways to counter a thieves backstab, and toughness is a perfect mitigation if you miss you stunbreak.i love playing against thieves.. i actually target them more than any other, cos i know most are noobs running around glass cannons with no toughness and are easy kill.
@obtuse
yes your absolutely right.. i use soldiers amulet with hidden killer and can still punch out massive numbers while being alot more tanky.
the s/d is my favourite weapon set .. the auto is so strong when combined with the daze .. the only time a burst thief can beat me is if im rezzing a teammate or if im balls deep in a different fight
@turbolence
i think the s/d dazelock method is the best way to kill tanky players, especially guardians..you just cant beat it and i feel its an underrated weapon set. you interrupt all their heals and hardly get hit.. it also has a boon remover
i use balistic venom instead of thieves guild as i hate the 3min cooldown.. balistic works well to start the fight, and you can easy get your first daze off.
@eduardo
the problem is crit chance and crit dmg are two different things, so you cannot combine the two and then compare to power as your comparison suggests… sure the trait line has both, but most dps thiefs use 30 crit anyway…. alot of us want to know what gear/sigils/runes to use, and in this case, crit chance and precision are separate.
oh.. thanks Galandil for the post, nice reference to refer to
oh.. thanks Galandil for the post, nice reference to refer to
pp with haste on a glass cannon build is just straight out awesome
and thats about it imo
@dark assassin
sorry i couldnt access this thread until today for some reason.
The build i posted is quite unique and may not be to your liking. I like melee and i like damage so it works for me. this build is based on PvP however im sure you could use some info for wvw and pve
I use s/d, d/p combo..
playstyle:
start with s/d and use balistic venom.. open with sword2, and just hit them a few time with sword auto to ‘soften them up a little’ remembering they will be stone for 1.5s… once this wears off, sword2 again to teleport back to where you started.. pop devour venom, precast c+d, teleport using infiltrator sig.. once you hit the c+d, hit assassins sig, and then weapon swap (to your d/p) and then backstab.. it sounds hectic but you’ll get use to the rotation.
the enemy should think you dont have a dagger mainhand, so they tend to not break the stun of devour. if they breaks the stone stun, thats great, they prob wont break the devour. remembering to dodge a couple of times too to build might.. the end result is that you hit your backstab with 20 might stacks (x4 from venom, x3 from ws, x3 from dodging and x10 from signets).
very important to weapon swap after you use assassins sig cos it seems currently bugged
soldiers amulet really shines in your ‘off time’ .. and remember after the above burst, you should still have most your ini..
i dont get this whole OP thing about stealth.
it only lasts for 2 seconds, 3 if you have it traited. and there are only a few ways to enter stealth. sure its a great tool, but other classes have similar tools to help them survive. dont even get me started on mesmers or guardians.
i admit i sometimes feel sorry for players when i smack them dead in one second, but i use all my traits and utilities to achieve that 1 massive hit.
sorry my link doesnt work..tryin to fix it
this is my cannon build… thought i would share as it is very strong
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c3RF3;0RwV0-W5V-Fd0;9;4TT-9-38717B;11;35oG26;1G3G3G3G36BS
highlights:
18k hp, 1500 toughness
15.5k backstab on medium golem on a 36s cooldown
this is not a glass cannon build due to the soldiers amulet, just wanted to point that out.. you simply destroy ppl in 2 seconds, and then are tanky enough to continue fighting groups until the 36s is up and you destroy another person.
if you get the bloodlust sigil up to full, im sure i would hit the medium golem for +17k
note im using the golem as an example cos its consistent and everyone can test..