@arganthium, I wouldn’t take any notice of helly regarding those numbers.. we are all experienced enough with a thief to know that just doesn’t happen.
@cynrain – if you don’t like full power gc build, you can go for acro instead of shadow arts. its a different play style but works well imo, especially with SD…something like, 0/30/0/25/25 , take withdraw and focus on evading constantly rather than stealth
What the, do ppl seriously think dodging is the only way to counter fs?
Ever heard of cc?
Stun, daze, chill, immobilize, knockdown, knockback… Hell, even cripple causes u to miss the lac strike as u can’t make enough ground
Yes it’s a strong build, but it has it’s counters, that’s for sure
you should be detonating manually strait away…
in fact, the toolbet skill, if you are close to your enemy is crazy burst.. sometimekitten squishies for 2k per mine.. plus its aoe so awesome if mobs or other players are stacked, such as on a point
in pve, the throw mine skill is very handy for that extra couple seconds you get from the knockback plus its a blast finisher.. throw poison nade, throw mine for aoe weakness
rayne and neare , as i said, its a unique build because not many ppl use it, and for that reason you most likely havent come across this type of burst engi before.. im fine if everyone thinks engi doesnt have burst..
the op is looking for a burst engi build so i thought i would share one
i main thief, only r39 so im no expert, but id like to think i know what a decent burst looks like, and certain engi builds have crazy burst
waka where are you to defend me?
If u want burst as an engi, go static discharge grenade build with mines, no engis really use it even tho its one of the highest burst builds in the game. PM me if ya wana know more
Hgh nades condition is prob the most well rounding engi build if u don’t like being glass cannon
I disagree, playing with someone who hotjoins to r10 will be far more competent than a r1 playing.. I’m mainly saying this as even in hotjoin u pickup the basic game mechanics..
Splitting team q and solo q cannot work, why do ppl keep saying this.. Reason is because a large majority of players like to group in 2,3 and 4s meaning you’d have an advantage in solo q and disadvantage in team q
Absolutely 100% agree with op
Hotjoin is great training for tpvp imo.. If u can survive a hotjoin zerg, then you’ll prob find tpvp rather easy to survive
New players please play some hotjoin to learn the mechanics of the game, learn how to survive, learn what the secondary mechanics are… Just learn the game! Then come and play tpvp and you’ll find you’ll pick it up easier
I suggest r10 as min entry
Some hotjoin games are funner than tpvp if u snag a good server .. Was in a random match last night and everyone was r30-55, highly competitive close games, wad a blast
Then I played tpvp and was stuck with r1-10s and ppl were leaving causing 4v5
It’s getting there, but tpvp needs alot of work on the entry requirements, leaver penalties, matchmaking etc
the cooldown on 3 is too long meaning you simply never get to use it
I think the skills are allright just the cooldowns suck
@med have u tried the build or jus making assumptions?
Personally I don’t like the build as I would rather more pts in accro or trickery for more initiative
@mrbig, nobody here is bagging dp, it’s one of our best sets, no question .. Again tho, your selling sd short. Fs/ls combo hits for around 10% less than backstab, plus it steals two boons, evades, and is spammable.. Throw in a power hitting auto chain, insane mobility and evasivness from inf strike, and a 1.5 s daze when you need it, and you have a pretty darn good weapon set
Is sd better than dp? Prob not, but it’s not too far behind
As bunker I’d take the traits that give u protection
High toughness and protection means backstabs hit for stuff all, and with enough regen you should be able to easily survive
Prob is then killing them.. If he traits in shadow arts for condi cleanse from stealth, you either need massive condition dmg or go for power
As a bunker, I’d try bombs
Mrbig, why so much hate for sd?
It’s a completely different playstyle to dp, and your def selling it short
Jim is posting a build that’s a bit different, and will write a guide and all your doing is commenting on how awesome dp is, and that he should play another class
Here’s a hot tip.. MOST of us have played dp for hundreds, if not thousands of games, we are well aware of the capabilities of dp
Hey logic, great guide, v informative.. Quick question, what do u mean when u say sos can pull? Thx
I’d suggest putting a minimum rank on tpvp.. Not saying rank determines skill but at least players will know what there doing which is half the prob atm..I have more competitive matches in hotjoin now, which shouldn’t be the case.
I’ve said it a million times.. How do you accommodate groups of 2,3 and 4 if you split the queues? What do they do?
Until you can answer that properly then I don’t think it can be done
I’m not saying it can’t happen, but i generally don’t know how it can work.. Have a 3rd q for small groups?
Agree with most your post
Put a min rank requirement of 10, that way, the player at least has some exp playing pvp, the game mechanics etc etc
Splitting solo q with premade will be hard due to groups of 2,3,4.. Can’t see it working personally
Can someone tell me how splitting solo q from premade can actually work? How do you fit in groups of 2,3,4?
Obviously a group of 4 has to be in the solo q, otherwise they will never get a 5th person
There’s not enough 5 man groups to have a premade q, it would take forever to pop, and you would play the same team over and over
I don’t think ppl have actually thought it thru
The prob is the afkers, the ppl who leave and ppl who simply don’t know how to play.. To try and fix this, id put heavier penalties on leavers, the ability to report afkers and have a min rank requirement of 10
This is my number one prob atm
They need to implement a minimum rank to enter tpvp.. That way, the pve diehards won’t be able to join until they learn the game mechanics, maps, classes etc.. Usually the person who leaves will be a low rank.. Or a high rank stuck with low rank noobs who admit they’ve never played the map before
Learn how to play in hotjoin kitten then come to tourneys, not the other way round
I know some low rank players are more skillful than higher but by throwing a blanket r10 requirement to enter, I think we’ll see an improvement
This has been tried and tested ages ago… Im pretty sure the patch to change daze was Jan or even Dec?
In Spvp, its not worth using either sigil or runes as daze only goes upto about 2 seconds
In Pve and WvW tac stike has a 2 second daze. Using EITHER the runes or the sigil will bumb this daze upto 3 seconds
hence you become a beastly killing machine in PvE and WvW
if you have any points in acro I would not use it, use sig of agility instead
if you don’t, it then depends on your build.. if you use sword mh with no acro, then maybe I would use it, as when you hit your sword auto rotation, you need to be gaining on the enemy to ensure you hit them
I agree on the leaderboards and I’m in huge same situation
But if they split solo q and premade, where would groups of 2 or 3 fit in? And if you have a group of 4, how would you ever get that 5th person?
I think they just need to refine the matchmaking system, penalize afk and leavers and put a minimum rank of 10 to enter the match.. I mean I get teamed up with ppl who don’t even know the map or how to play.. They should not be in a tournament
Anyone who says this is not good for tpvp don’t know what there on about.
Like kardiamond, I use mines instead of toolkit, for a bit of extra burst.. Having an absolute blast. Pardon the pun
Nice work waka
Yeah pretty bias post. Way off the mark imo
I’ve only ever played theif and engi, over 1500 hrs worth, and can say with confidence their dmg output is very similar if specced for burst.. Also thief is probly harder to play as its much more squishy, around 5k less hp, and u need to time your dodges and movement better.
Soooooooo
Wats even more fun is when one of those low lvl players decide to log out making it a 4v5
Used 10/30/0/0/30 prior to patch as I wasn’t using much ini.. Hit like a truck btw
Now using 0/30/0/25/15 for the boon duration and ini regen.. Working well! Played about 700 games with. 10/30/30/0/0 and I got sick of it out of repetitiveness,still a great build tho and lots more survivability than the other 2
All sd, and all berserker gear
Runes either citadel *5, pack, worm, lyssa,rock dog one
Waka what do u mean by 100 nade queue in your rotation description. Thx
Hey amadeus
I actually play theif and engi, and was trying out the new theif move most of last night. I didn’t face a sd when I was on my engi so I wasn’t sure of the engis p-o-v
Agree it’s very easy to dodge, however keep in mind thieves haven’t mastered it yet, so they will get better at delaying the second strike to make it harder to dodge.. I also watched some of jumpers twitch stream, he ran sd both weapon sets with crazy ini regen so he could spam it almost constantly, and we only get a couple dodges so eventually it’ll hit and steal our boons
For most classes this is ok as they will get the usual fury, swiftness, etc nothing too major.. But if they fight a hgh engi and get a 20s stack of 20 might wow, that will hurt
All the posts above are generally referring to bs builds so just wanted to make a note that sd can be potentially devastating to might stacking
As of this patch, theif will be the number 1 killer of engis which rely on boons.. So that’s hgh might stacking and bunkers who need protection and regen
I haven’t fought many yet, but how is everyone else going at fighting sd thieves?
I agree with a fair portion of ur post. My main disagreement is with infiltrator strike.. My gosh this is a fantastic skill, once mastered
With the backstab builds you really need to open with steal for the gap closer. This means no heal and about 2-3k dmg nerf, which is alot..
I think you people are related to chuck norris or sumthing. Where`s the dmg coming from with the s/d build? Flanking strike? LOL? The boon removal is meh at best and the daze is mediocre considering ur exiting stealth with it. OMKG thief in hide run fur ur lives! KABOOM – dazed…And ur opponent just went “hahaha that tickles”.
wheres the damage from? Are you kidding me? Did you even look at the stats?
Prior to this patch (I haven’t logged on yet) flanking strike would hit almost as hard as backstab.. your looking at 2.5k initial, 5k 2nd.. The sword auto rotation would hit around 8k, and you could have thrown in a 5k steal (prior to patch), 2.5k cnd and a 2k tactical strike
are you getting the picture? look at the stats before you make stupid claims
my char is named chucknorris so maybe he has special powers
Sd has been my main for over 1500 pvp games
Now what to do about this trick shot nerf
the patch hasnt actually been released yet as far as i know so no way to see the flanking strike animation and numbers.. will be the first thing i do
mug not critting effectively reduces a bs burst by 2k which is a pretty decent amount
healing turrent heal is reduced, but if you overcharge it, then blow it up, it should heal for around 5k and cure 2 conditions. so its not too bad
the confusion nerf for wvw will hurt alot of players
the healing turrent change is interesting.. 2 condi removal and a 5s water field with a cooldown of 15s.. it could potentially mean we dont have to trait into alchemy for 409.. potentially
Agree dp is the best counter for sd. Saying that, it’s more like a nill all draw if the sd doesn’t stand in the bp.. A sd can always kite with sb and then switch to sd when the dp is low on ini.. It’s all about tactics and timing..Really difficult fight for sd but still doable
sd is better at beating bunkers or classes who use alot of cc, so it can’t have it allHow is it good against bunkers? You need raw sustained or good spike windows to deal with bunkers.
S/D is a CC spec. It stunlocks certain classes with little access to stability or weaker players who don’t know to dodge cnd or not get hit by the stealth opener daze.
Dagger single target is far superior in output to sword. Sword is mainly for the cleave or mobility.
Either way, a good ele or guardian bunker hardcounter thieves. So do BM bunker rangers.
Thieves are there to cheese other glass cannons/non-bunkers, and that’s pretty much it.
Thieves don’t have meaningful boon removal like well of corruption or corrupt boon or null field — nor should they have it considering their spike.
The function of the thief in tourneys is to soften people with shortbow and finish someone off with his easy spike. Thief with shortbow can abuse teleport spots so easily.
i said its ‘better’ at dealing with bunkers than DP because it is
if you want to fight bunkers you trait for bountiful thief, combine with flanking strike and your stealing/removing 3-4 boons.. when your traited for power/crit, it has very high sustained damage
and no you don’t/cant stunlock after the daze nerf, its a handy tool when used appropriately but the ini cost of cnd is too high to keep dazing, in my opinion
Agree dp is the best counter for sd. Saying that, it’s more like a nill all draw if the sd doesn’t stand in the bp.. A sd can always kite with sb and then switch to sd when the dp is low on ini.. It’s all about tactics and timing..Really difficult fight for sd but still doable
sd is better at beating bunkers or classes who use alot of cc, so it can’t have it all
Regarding the theif, stealing 1 boon won’t do crap as its more than likely the might stacksaare protected by a few other boons.
The problem is this.. Alot of sd thief’s trait into trickery and pick up bountiful thief.. Now this means the thief will steal 3 or 4 boons.. If they take 20 stacks of might, it is basically goodnight Irene.
Note if they trait this way, they will also get vigor, swiftness, fury from their steal so hgh engis will be seriously supercharging sd thief’s..
I’m a hgh engi and a sd theif so I have mixed emotions
On the plus side, if there’s less dp and dd thief’s it means less burst and backstabs so at least we’ll have time to react
I have no idea about warr
wow, as a devoted SD user i think i might enjoy this patch
with shadow embrace, you were dropping the bleeds far too easily for him to have any chance. . he needed to get some vul, weakness and poison to protect the bleeds
dd/dp is prob the most 1v1 specific build in the entire game lol
+1 im heading in that direction.. started at 60% and have fallen to 25% purely cos i solo queue and get stuck with a team of terrible players. .now im losing to terrible players cos my team is terrible and rank drops even lower
i know i know, find a team bla bla but im on at random times for random lengths of time
my rank of 36 is embarrassing when it shows up as every other player is less than 10.
So fustrating
Where on earth did you get those dmg numbers, by reading that, it looks like pw and unload deals 4 times the dmg fs does.. Clearly wrong as flanking strike is one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game! It’s only just behind backstab and a full rotation of pw..
Fs, pw and unload can all hit for approx 7k in spvp.. I think that’s very reasonable
If your numbers above is what you think the dmg should be, why so little dmg for flanking strike?
the problem is most of the thieves you face are just bad players who dont know what to do when their burst fails.. simply escaping the fight doesnt help them or their team at all
@ yam, agree, its the same problem with jump shot smoke bomb, the jump shot landing will break the stealth.. making it pointless
this is absolutely terrible as thieves use heartseeker to gain stealth, and it doesnt even break stealth if it hits.. pretty sure engi’s are the only ones with this reveal problem.. please FIX it anet
It’s a real disadvantage to use it so goes against why the skill is there in the first place
It’s a real shame cos rocket kick is awesome
only tournament matches count towards leaderboards.. hotjoins do not
yeah us solo q’ers shouldnt really look at leaderboards.
Theif and engi are my two classes. 100 nade was Way more lethal then a backstab burst.. I was oneshotting bunkers in spvp as I used a vulnerability stacking variation of 100nade.. Back before the assasin sig was changed, yeah you could see some crazy backstabs but not anymore.. Theif burst is still huge, don’t get me wrong but 100 nades was in a league of its own. Seeing a full health bar instantly going dark red was poetry to my eyes haha… What they didn’t realize is that our power builds are crap now and it’s depressing that I’m forced into conditions dmg only builds.. I understand ppl will have a different opinion but that is mine
(edited by bomber.1540)
@raptured.. Sry but u really have no idea.. None of those buffs affect this build
Hey o’eggs, if hgh got nerfed couldn’t ya just take 10 points out of alchemy and put it into firearm, then use undead runes? U will have an extra 300 – 400 base condi dmg, and still have the ability to roll with constant 10 might stacks, sounds comparable to me, plus u could swap ex b for toolkit or bomb kit or whatever