(edited by cottage.3274)
Don’t know what to say to you…. but if you ever played a mesmer or a thief, then when you’ll play an engineer and people will start piling CC and their bullkitten combos on you, you’ll die a little bit inside. Just so much easier to avoid whatever they throw at you if you can stunbreak+blink with a single click. Sure you might be able to cleanse that immobilize, but what if an elem slams into you launching you then combos that into another cc… etc… if they have their CC+damage chain thought out, you are in real danger.
2 more things:
1. I hate taking Toolkit just so I have a shield skill. Apart from using magnet now and then, I really have no use for it in most builds. It also takes more time to respond with it in those twitch split second situations because you usually also have to switch into the kit.2. Cloaking device is really bad. Going invis won’t stop players from piling damage on top of you. It really only works in pve, and even there, if you’re solo it will reset the mob. Against players pretty much any other buff but invis would work better when immobilized. Against players I’d rather invest in things that counter CC, like prot on CC. Engineer really needs more abilities that can be activated while stunned.
Seriously, who the hell from ANet thought: you know what really helps when opponents make you immovable? Invisibility. They’ll never figure out what empty space to swing their sword at!!
fundamentally i agree with you tho to compare us to ele,thief,mesmer,or to a guardian we fail in every aspect so its not a fair comparison.
but i have some issues with what you said.
1)toolkit is a great kit and all five of its skills are useful aside from the obvious shield block, magnet is amazing don`t forget they nerfed our ft 5 skill backdraft that did exactly the same thing with added dmg because it was “op”.
you can pull ppl from points,stop res/stomps ,stop fleeing ppl (most of the time its thiefs/ele) ,stop a cast,if you run p/p pull for a pry bar & Blowtorch combo ect ect.
use box of nails for kiting,or to escape,use on points for conditions(aoe cripple is not the worst thing in the world i hope you agree nvm the bleed).
pry bar hit hard(in engineer scale ofc) and adds confusion which is great if a someone is up in your face.
auto attack gives vulnerability(well not that you ever use the skill or stack it but still).
using gear shield is more to predict things incoming then to react (great for hotjoin ppl that pop every thing in the first second of the fight `cough` d/d ele`s)and dont forget you can swap to a kit when your cc, so if you get caught with no stunbreak switch and prep your gear shield for use to stop whats coming next or just use it to buy some more time for a heal cd to get back up & you can cast it and switch back to the weapon and it wont cancel.
this way you can clutch use it.
2)as for cloaking device i take it in almost every build for a short immobilize its really good only thing that damge me most of the time is a warrior sword f skill.
sure it fails 2 out of 3 times but what engineer skill doesn’t,it frequently fails because to stop our weapon auto attack you need to uninstall the game.
the stealth duration usually is more than the immobilize like Maskaganda said and you can dodge away to a better spot to attack or disengage for a heal or any other cd.
ppl usually immobilize to prepare a burst this screw them over alot.
you may disagree this is just my view.
and i want to add that i want Juggernaut stability back!!! one source for stability that needs a kit and a grandmaster trait is not asking for too much.
and no toss s just don`t cut it.
(edited by cottage.3274)
this changes have 0 to a very minor impact on our effectiveness in spvp.
the new hero ui is great but it only take date from traits and not runes or sigils.
kits still do very low dmg (no stats on pvp weapons and gear anyway and you still lose weapon dmg when you equip a kit)
the turrets fix is ok but: ai is still nonexistent ,they still die when anyone farts a aoe next to them, and they do low condition and direct dmg for all kind of reasons.
as for deployable turrets trait no one takes it anyway.
healing turret was great before and is even more amazing now after the regen fix cant complain.
Incendiary ammo is a nerf but i again cant complain every profession got a similar nerf.
the upside is the fix to hair trigger,static shield/reinforced shield,speedy gadgets/throw mine.
this patch notes got me thinking on the dev`s list of priorities
is elixir x,reserve mines,toss elixir s ,speedy gadgets & deployable turrets traits fixes are the most urgent or needed fixes?is there noting more pressing to fix for this profession?
i wish they post something for us so we can understand whats going on and get their state of mind i`m sure they are doing the best they can but still i don`t get it.
*also i like to add that if they want to list us ambiguous and unclear fixes in the patch notes they need to add an example skill take this one for size
“Fixed a bug that could cause rectangular skills to fail to hit the correct targets.”
what is it?is it walls like ft napalm? or traps?
is it our cone ft skill/pistol blowtorch? they are rectangular per say and the bug does exist on them.
anyway its anybody guess.
(edited by cottage.3274)
pistols are very bugy (still).
what you described will often happen when you strafe and shot.
if you say it happened when you face your enemy it might be something new i never had it happen for me when using static shot tho.
it bugs out when someone moves behind you at the same time you fire it.
also i seen some pathing bugs happen.
it occurs with blowtorch you can be in someones face and still miss it.
also poison dart volley will miss one or two of its shots if your 600 or more away from your target but they dont consider it a bug.
explosive shot also miss randomly now and then for no reason.
well did you see the engineer trailers they made before release?the one when the rifle turret solo mobs?
hmm did your rifle turret ever solo a mob?:)
or the one when the engineer uses glue shot that actually stops mobs for you to set big ol` and it hits?:)
in my book this is a classic case of false advertising:)Yes it did. Before they changed spacial dynamics, I could place the turret in a location that the mob couldn’t do damage to it, but it did not get the “invulnerable” flag that it does now. Although I would love to see the video you mention. They also showed a video for a profession called the “commando” that could call air strikes too. Did you slam the forums when that didn’t happen for you?
The difference is, unlike yourself, I will provide a video to support it, and not just make a claim.
You guys do not have to like it, but if he is going to make a 100th thread on a topic, I am entitled to disagree. And I will do so anytime anyone is trying to change core professional mechanics, which is exactly what our tool belt system is now. It works, and there is nothing wrong with it.
When posters are continuously ignoring the broken, dysfunctional, or imbalanced skills to lobby to change the skills, abilities, and mechanics that work just fine, I will adamantly argue it.
is this guy for real?
first of the commando was a april fool’s joke also fyi
“The engineer profession influenced the Commando April Fool’s joke”.
so no i did not slam the forums when it didn’t happen coz i can take a joke and not be a fool like some people.
and since you are unfamiliar with google search i`ll give some links that you apparently cant look up by yourself.
and for the rifle turret you made it work by exploiting a bug gj for you m8.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/04/04/guild-wars-2-dev-blog-exposes-the-commando/
http://www.arena.net/blog/goin-commando-with-horia-dociu
at this point i cant take you seriously you borderline troll us i get your kind of ppl that want to argue just to argue.
if we will say its night you will say its day if we say its cold you will say it hot so on and so on.
so there is no point in engaging in a serious discussion with you.
How about making kits into toolbelts (like atunements) and their toolbelts into slot-skills. The kit toolbelts already resemble slot-skills, while the skill toolbelts look like an afterthought. So now bomb kit is a toolbelt-Kit and BoB is a skill you use out of your skill slots. At the same time make it so that we can choose our toolbelts and skills separately from their respective pools; being the old toolbelt skills with the kits, and the old kit toolbelts with our other slot-skills.
With this someone can run a flamethrower “tool-kit” and run around with grenade barrage in his skills if he wants to. Someone can have elixir R on their toolkit and run elixir s in their slot-skills. If the toolkit is really “balanced” then this shouldn’t be a problem, if it isn’t balanced this change will make it clear which toolkits need a buff.
this will be imo like i said way too op for creative player and will get exploited and will lead to a nerf/buff routine for sure ,the near endless combo options is too strong.
and as for making it like attunements well attunements got a cd so it will get one also for sure just like any weapon swap.
if kits have a cd you can forget about using bomb kit/med kit and some clutch skills like toolkit shield block,magnet or flamethrower blind/pushback ect.
also if they make the cd too long it will be up like i said, if it will be too short it will be op again like i said.
middle ground works the best imo.
I am also curious, you claim we need a class mechaninic that works as advertised. I would truelly love to see one fact to display what they claimed, and how it doesn’t work as they claimed. You have a really bad habit of claiming to know what they devs meant, wanted, or intended. I am all for a serious discussion of serious issues, but these claims are getting ridiculously outlandish.
well did you see the engineer trailers they made before release?the one when the rifle turret solo mobs?
hmm did your rifle turret ever solo a mob?:)
or the one when the engineer uses glue shot that actually stops mobs for you to set big ol` and it hits?:)
in my book this is a classic case of false advertising:)
as i see it there needs to be a middle ground here.
making the toolbelt all kits and since you want to unlink slot skills from toolbelt skills plus letting us pick and choose slot skills(from what we drop from the toolbelt+the existent slot skills) as we like ,
will effectively be too good, and smart and creative players will find a way to exploit it (in a good way like 100nabs which is very creative to use a aoe toolbelt kit skill for single target massive burst) and new engineers will fail and will be overwhelmed just from the sheer amount of options available.
and it will be heavily theorycrafted to min/max.
this will eventually conclude in a frequent big buff/nerf fix loop for a long time.
on the other hand
equiping one kit in the weapon swap slot suggestion i see here and there will reduce our versatility a lot to the point of self gimp since a lot of builds scrap that most builds use 2 kits and more leave the dmg factor out just to lose the utility makes it unplayable.
add to this that there is no real reward to play kitless and traits dont support this kind of gameplay.
and no one will drop the utility kits give you just to hit a bit harder, if they want to make it viable the dmg needs to be crazy.
and what you get is the mess we are in now.
some skillslot+tollbelt skills are op some up some just don`t fit and some have way way way to long cd.
as for me i would love them to leave the toolbelt as is ,make a new ui for kits outside of slot skills and let me get the 3 slots i want and the kits i need so i can play effective and be viable.
yep i know its a buff
but we sure need one no?
i don’t want to defend thief (my class), it is very strond and it deserve some nerf.
ok everybody agree on this.what i want to point out is the FACT that
if a stealthed thief attack an opponent he receive a REVEALED debuff that last 3 secs. a thief with that debuff cannot enter stealth again till the debuff ENDstop arguing about thief perma stelahted. it is rendering issue. an anet fault. the only build that abuse of the rendering issue is the condition thief.
a d/d thief has to be stealthed to use BS, which is 1 (one) single attack from stealth, then he receives the REVEALED debuff.
i am not arguing about the bs combo.
clearly you dont get it
first of you can see he kitten up the combo or just didn`t do it he opened with bs-hs-steal hasted ofc you know why.
second you can sr stealth and time your steal-c&d-bs just as your stealth ware off to not trigger revealed but this takes minimal skill so you wont see alot of thiefs do it.
third in this very game when i was aware of him he didn`t do jack kitten to me since you can predict avoid & react to this one trick pony and in fact i did.
the the problem lies when they start from stealth and headshot you under a second. and trust me if you play a engineer even if you spot him and avoid the combo you can easly be downed by a bad player anyway you need to play it flawless to win.I do not know where you’ve pulled out all these deductions I would have done.
i just wrote again some thief mechanics a lot of players still don’t understand.
and sorry, maybe my bad english, maybe the forum filter, but i understood only the last sentence of your post.
so i can answer you. i can trust you, but you can trust me good engis use shield to defend the combo or use the invulnerability breakstun. doenst mean thief is uneffective against engis, but there are a few good defences against thief. just use them in time and thieves will be an easy deal. it is a matter of timing and skill.
let me spell it for you as easy as i can,
the problem lies when they start from stealth and kill you under a second.
and we have way more tools then elixir s or shield 5 skill or tool kit shield block to stop the combo if we are aware the thief is there.
so again
“the problem lies when they start from stealth and headshot you under a second.”
get it now?
or do you wanna give me more tips like time my skills usage ect.
i don’t want to defend thief (my class), it is very strond and it deserve some nerf.
ok everybody agree on this.what i want to point out is the FACT that
if a stealthed thief attack an opponent he receive a REVEALED debuff that last 3 secs. a thief with that debuff cannot enter stealth again till the debuff ENDstop arguing about thief perma stelahted. it is rendering issue. an anet fault. the only build that abuse of the rendering issue is the condition thief.
a d/d thief has to be stealthed to use BS, which is 1 (one) single attack from stealth, then he receives the REVEALED debuff.
i am not arguing about the bs combo.
clearly you dont get it
first of you can see he kitten up the combo or just didn`t do it he opened with bs-hs-steal hasted ofc you know why.
second you can sr stealth and time your steal-c&d-bs just as your stealth ware off to not trigger revealed but this takes minimal skill so you wont see alot of thiefs do it.
third in this very game when i was aware of him he didn`t do jack kitten to me since you can predict avoid & react to this one trick pony and in fact i did.
the the problem lies when they start from stealth and headshot you under a second. and trust me if you play a engineer even if you spot him and avoid the combo you can easly be downed by a bad player anyway you need to play it flawless to win.
i`ll give you a perspective on op
this was done to me from stealth didn’t see it coming and it was over in 0.3 sec max.
now for all the ppl that come everywhere and tall ppl l2p pl i do wanna l2p tall me how do you deal with this kinda things.
are you a robot that can react in 0.2sec or do you have some magic skill that we the common ppl do not possess that make you see ppl in stealth.
what is it pl i really want to l2p.
25k dmg in 0.3sec that you cant predict avoid or react to!
gg!
i agree with most of what you say the only thing i don`t agree on is to remove the aoe from pistol 1.
as for why i don`t agree its simple its our only reliable aoe,what i mean is its not like bomb/grenade kit,
in pve they do the job but in pvp its hard to get the most of the aoe out of them unlike pistol 1 which is amazing with piercing it can hit and bleed a f load of ppl.
in wvw its the most amazing thing ever.
they can nerf skills 3,4 to buff single target if ppl feel to aoeish with pistols.
as for elixirs the rng need to go period,but if they want to leave the element of it for flavor for the love of god leave it out of utility elixirs like toss s,u and the use of x.
i dont really care if they leave it on b&h tho i would prefer if they just get rid of rng all together.
all in all great post +1 there is a large consensus in the engineer community about what wrong and how to fix it the ball is on anet court now.
really i would just be happy if they make our current elites work not thet i don`t think a mass rework is needed but its not likely.
mortar is awkward & clumsy and my pistol auto attack hits harder and the useful skills have to long cd if you consider the rounds travel time .
its basically a self gimp if you use it (in pvp its like a big sign come kill me and 2 shot my mortar).
elixir x the warrior version is kinda ok not great just ok but the tornado is simply bad it never hits anyone doest do dmg (to low to call it dmg its like 1 stack of bleed) and just makes you a free kill.
tho the blind,knockback & stability are nice just not useful coz you never hit and no one really need to cc you just smack you dead.
supply crate is the best of a bad lot 99.9% of the ppl use it as a default most ppl dont really like it but its the only one remotely useful.
i only use it in pvp for the 2 sec stun and the bandages the turrets get killed in mid air by a mesmer phantasm or a ranger pet.
again i think anet need to rethink our elites and replace them with cool fun and usable ones but for now this is what i think they need to do to make a minute qol changes to bring up Mortar,elixir x & the supply crate
mortar:
first thing is to make it portable and for it to give some skills when you carry it like a warrior banner.
up its dmg by 70% ofc with the 5 man aoe cap.
and lower the skills cd.
elixir x:
drop the tornado leave only the juggernaut but make 2 skills as healing skills not a exact copy of the warrior elite skill we are engineers not warriors this makes you fight in melee not our strong side to say the least so 2 healing skills to buff up our survivability is fair.
supply crate:
qof fix is to lower the cd 180 is just to much 90/120 is more like it.
its not like its a grossly op elite.
and for all i care dont let it drop turrets only good for a boss fight in pve so…
i really do hope they will do something… anything… this is just one of the many many many things wrong with engineers.
The solution is to nerf the damage modifiers that you can pick up through traits, nothing else. It’s obvious to anybody who has actually put some thought into it and actually played it.
Why do scholar runes add such a huge amount of damage? Why can you pick up 4 traits with damage multipliers of 10, 10 , 20 and 5% respectively that are additive? That’s the root of the issue.
Obviously this needs to happen at the same time as bunkers are nerfed.
what you say is very true
but
1)fix to this will hurt every build not the problematic bs .
2) anet will not likely do this massive revamp in the near future.
3) true and true again to nerf bunkers but this need to happen in the same time as burst nerf.
Mrbig i don’t see it the way you are,thieves can go venom share and they have good group utilities they can share boons & so on & so on
but i do agree thats not as viable as just going burst romer in the current state of the meta.
anet sure needs to give some buff to group support to the profession maybe then we wont see so many cheesy builds.
this role realy need to viable for a thief.
easy fix with 0 dmg nerf not a direct one anyway
c&d cannot be precast from steal
and /or
c&d cannot be cast on the move
also
hs cost 5/6 initiative to avoid the dumb skiless spam
keeps the high dmg lose the unskilled gameplay.
i don’t mind getting hit for a f load if i get outplayed
but unavoidable dmg is not fun for anyone
just like 100b was op at start ppl l2p now if a warrior gets you with it its a clear l2p from your side.
if a thief wants to open the combo from stealth its fine as lond as he pops a cd for it
and its also takes some skill to pull off right(time the stealth to drop as you steal)
the burst is ok as long as you can do something to stop it if not all of it then 20/50% of it by outplaying ppl.
i outplay so many thieves in 5v5 and 8v8 and still get down from dumb things like haste/hs spam after i avoid a fail steal-c&d-bs by a unskilled player (bad players make it so easy to spot and pre use def cd).
also the full on glass cannons just smack you down in like 2s nothing you can do if your not a bunker build and still they can get away if they fail it.
add to this a stealth finish when your down and the all profession gets out of hand.
this need to cahnge.!
ps:
played a thief from the start to rank 20 i did like 200 8v8 and 300 5v5 with him and stoped playing coz it gets old fast to do the same combo over and over and over again and win with 0 skill.
thief is my most played charcter.