Guild Wars 2

I think there is an animation casting time on the body shot that makes it feel slower to cast.

or even if you don’t hit them? I agree.

The issue with a [burst thief], is the inability for other players to recognise how the ini mechanic works. everyone who wants a thief nerf, please start a thief, learn how ini works and realise after burst we don’t have much else. hopefully then you will realise it is not our traits/gear/runes/sigils/abilites that are bursting you, it is our ‘as intended’ ini.

P.S. don’t nerf ini, otherwise you might as well call us a low damage, low armour, warrior.

Angel.1435:

@ddrake.5436 – you do realise that the GW2 Thief plays exactly like the WoW Rogue right?

My point was that it’s called a thief but it plays more like an assassin… so am I not correct in saying that calling it a thief is wrong? If they called it “Assassin” that would make more sense. Read my title and what I wrote. don’t dwell on on what I said i personally want.

@Angel, no.. in WoW the class is called rogue, in GW2 it is called thief, and no they do not play exactly alike. please don’t make the assumption they are the same, as this is falacy. and you are giving out incorrect information.

to answer your ‘point’. It does not play more like an assassin, It plays exactly as intended ‘as a thief’, by your definition is not ‘the’ definition. your title is an incorrect statement and I am correcting you! what you want is by my definition a ninja – we don’t have ninja’s in this game, sorry. however if you want to stealth more and play deceptive, maybe a mesmer might be to your liking? otherwise don’t go D/D and burst your foes, try another spec maybe?

P/P?
P/D?
S/P?
S/D?
D/P?

I am using P/P and I use far more of what you call deception than you might think, Utility Thieves Guild is deceptive, is it not? which is the real thief?

I think the issue here is that the OP ‘wants’ a World of Warcraft rogue and not a Guild Wars 2 thief. I agree with mrsachelm in the fact that there are many other classes out there that the OP can try, however this should not turn into a debate of what is and what is not a thief. I don’t care by whose definition a ‘thief’ is. this is a game and the ‘thief’ is by Guild Wars 2 definition, we all know definitions change over time. adapt and learn is my advice.

Hybrid build is a bit lacking on condition. IMO you should drop crit chance and damage to 50% each, then up your condition damage, you will find this far more viable for a hybrid.

power is on most of the gear,

Crit gear [berserker’s] power/precision/crit dmg
Condition gear [Rampager’s] power/precision/condition
Tanky gear [Knight] power/precision/toughness …. etc.

@Pantheon

I was using D/P – SB from level 1 – 80 in PvE and PvP. recently I made the switch to a zerker P/P – P/D trait / gear spec. I do 9K unloads from 900 range and I’m not fully geared yet. I enjoy it more in dungeons as I survive longer and I can assist injured players.

I do not run a condition spec with the pistols as mentioned I use zerker, so it is a little different from most pistol builds. hope this helps

Genius!

I can’t quote on a previous statement you made, however let me copy and paste.

“There’s videos out there now of an ELEMENTALIST 1v3+ ing ppl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R63BSVIHeDQ&t=3m21s

Need I say more? You going to call eles OP too?"

Elementalist is OP
Engineer is OP
Warrior is OP
Thief is OP
Mesmer is OP
Guardian is OP
Ranger is OP
Necromancer is OP

Now that I have gotten that off my chest. if people just L2P, then people will realise how OP they can be. instead of complaining about every class, obviously this will not stop and my words of wisdom will not assist. clearly…

I enjoyed your vid and I subscribed, looking forward to more vids, I run a P/P – P/D build but I’m running zerker gear for the unload.

P.S. I eat thieves for breakfast on my necromancer if they go glass cannon. <- condition build.

your statistics on ‘nobody’? I’m sorry are you once again pulling numbers from your imaginary chart? why would you presume that nobody is using them? because you aren’t?

an interesting read, however those that want stealth build thieves will tend to disagree. I am undecided on this and I will only offer some words of wisdom ‘we as players do not know what’s best for the game, and we will not design the game to suite our whim and play style’

Venom is fine, no “Fixing” required, OP play another profession.

firstly, the thief is exactly how I want to play a thief. if it doesn’t fit YOUR ideal image of a thief, then play something else. thief in this game works as intended.

Currently I run D/P however I am looking to change my weapon and trait build soon.

I find D/P very superior with mobs in the PvE world (when they are focusing me), So I can use blackpowder to defend and shadowshot to shadowstep to mobs, making my killing spree fast and effective. however I have found dungeons harder with this build as mobs dont focus me and boss fights use gtAoE, making blackpowder useless, and shadowshot a waste of ini. I find D/P hard to use in PvP because blackpowder is only usefull if the enemy is in it and shadowshot to an enemy with no escape other than thief abilities is a waste.

I want to stay in combat (sustained) with a build. So I am looking at a Pistol/Pistol (Condition Spec) or Pistol/Dagger (Condition Spec) combo for dungeons. and possibly the same or Sword/Dagger for PvP for the Infiltrators Strike (pop-in, pop-out) curing 1 condition or Dagger/Dagger for DB and C&D.

I havn’t been using these specs yet, but hopefully this is informative for you.

True.

I had Knight’s gear on. I suppose against a condition build I would need +Vit

I instantly targeted the real Mesmer before he popped his clones (I can’t believe people forget ‘T’) but to stay away from his clones while he has better range abilites (I was D/P at the time, but then again anything without an escape would fail against this build.

maybe if I went S/P , S/D for Infiltrators Strike or P/P , P/D to stay at range to combat this, but pure D/P or D/D wouldn’t work against his build. any thoughts? can D/P or D/D still work?

Ok… to start off, no flaming the OP

I battled a tough opponent last night in WvW (1v1) he was a mesmer – I do not know how to play a mesmer, however I did notice he was “shattering clones” and I also noticed he had put 5 stacks of confusion on me. (Confusing Images)

All I want to know is … what is your tactic for dealing with this?

P.S. with 5 stacks of confusion I killed myself quickly.

I vote for server: Isle of Janthir

Hey Guys

Bored at work, So I began a spreadsheet recording the time it takes (in seconds) to kill the Light/Medium/Heavy golems in HoM. (with my trusty stopwatch)

(No gear/traits/buffs/signets/etc) only the weapon in the primary and auto attack.

Power: 916 (Base)
Crit Chance: 4% (Base)

I havn’t finished yet, but thought I would atleast post what I have done so far.

Auto Attack

@kidbs

Did you thief friend have buffs or did you have debuffs? 3k armor with vuln, makes a big difference.

D/P
SB

25/30/0/0/15

1. Hide in Shadows
2. Shadow Refuge
3. Blinding Powder
4. Signet of Shadows

I Steal to initiate and proceed with a Black Powder, if they choose to stay and fight I will be ok provided they don’t do gtAoE or a Multi Attack. if they begin to run, I Shadow Shot them and proceed to chase them down.

I think there is a hidden mechanic with backstab, it does intended damage to good players and 2x or 3x the damage to bad players. prove me wrong.

^ what he said.

OK, wasn’t expecting those results.

I’m not going to knock any trait line, I believe all have a place and played correctly by skilled players are worthy of a #1 spot in PVE or PVP. I will however give some facts with regards to Auto-Attack damage with No Gear/Traits/Buffs of any kind. Naked fighting with the PVP weapons in HoM.

I went to HoM earlier and this is a portion of what I have collected:

Light Armor Golem:
Dagger 18sec
Sword 20sec
Pistol 26sec

Medium Armor Golem:
Dagger 19sec
Sword 20sec
Pistol 28sec

Heavy Armor Golem:
Dagger 28sec
Sword 32sec
Pistol 38sec

If you don’t like these numbers, try it out for yourself.

FYI a melee is not in melee combat as much as a ranged, therefore the damage reduced by ranged is made up for in the entire fight. there are no skilled weapons, only skilled players.

You can’t hit someone with C&D Twice in a short space of time and receive stealth.

I run around with D/P as my #1 set, I have been trialing S/P recently so currently it is my #2 set atm. I run around with Knight Emblazoned Armor with Divinity Runes.

Build: 25/30/0/0/15

In dungeons I have Shadow Refuge on my bar 75% of the time. I did CoF last night and 4 of my teammates (Silly Buggers) got hit by the Boss’ attack and all 4 made it to the downed state. I was behind the boss so I didn’t get hit.

I put Shadow Refuge on all 4 of them and helped them up in time before it ran out while the boss was fighting the NPC

As with all science, it’s not perfect. Obviously Red Falcon has done his math. (or so we believe)

@Deft Dan

You need to provide yours.

ok. so my last mocking comment was ‘infracted’ let me elaborate on my ‘haha’ to be more meaningful and helpfull.

Q. I am unsure if it is intentional that thieves do not reappear immediately after their stealth wears off.
A. you either experience lag or you are a keyboard turner and are not very aware of your surroundings.

Q. If it is then nerf them in a way to where they cannot build a build that allows them to exploit this and stay out of sight and untargetable for an entire fight
A. nope, just L2P. (a thief that cannot stealth is a weak warrior).

Q. My friend had me try to fight his stealth build on my Necro and for the entire fight I could not see him and was forced to try and hit him with AoEs.
A. yes, what do you expect? did you want to melee him with your dagger? also L2P

Q. All the while I was seeing the numbers from his attacks beating the crap out of me
A. yes, if you are a fail player in pvp, this will occur almost every time. L2P

Q. Granted not all thieves can pull that off but the fact that it is possible needs to be changed.
A. the only thing that needs changing/fixing is your skill, L2P

P.S you fail to mention your HP/Armor and your friends HP/Armor – you are not giving a valid argument except being a whine.

Here is some free advise, L2P necromancer or don’t play one at all. Don’t come on a Thief forum expecting mercy for your lack of skill and your friends apparant skill over you. were you expecting us to agree with you… the answer is no. feel free to post in the necromancer forums as they might be a bit more forgiving to you and assist you.

Wasn’t Blazer P/P? and Lavexis D/P?

anyway, i’m doing a spreadsheet atm showing autoattack damage from every class with every weapon against Light/Medium/Heavy Golems and how quick they take them down with no buffs/traits/gear. so far it’s interesting enough that the professions we think should do more autoattack damage don’t and the ones that shouldn’t do. this of course does not take into account skill/buffs/traits/gear – nothing except auto attack ¹

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Lavexis.5360:

D/P build can beat any class except super tanky bunker guardian..
I’ve tried it and yes it works.
D/P also beat condition thief, backstabber and hs spammer by farrr, and blazer if you think d/p is the worse weapon set then you have no idea what it can do.

Wanna test it now? lets go to the heart of the mists, tell me which server (pick an empty one) and lets see if you are right

You play on American or European servers?

so…. how did the fighting go? who won?

@MidgeisGood

… angry? I think we just all need to clarify.

@OP

what are you talking about? why do you say D/P is needing a nerf?

ah, in that case Blazer Hellsing’s Blood Storm – has a ring to it.

from speaking to some friends and reading some forums I have come to the conclusion Thief is one of the most appealing classes yet the highest failure rate in terms of people not adjusting to the skill required.

for myself, I am enjoying the profession and I have become very good at it (I will be making some vids for folks that are having issues in coping with the skill required for the profession)

before I make a vid, people need to realise the thief is far removed from the rogue in WoW, you cannot stay stealthed 100% of the time and you cannot ‘tank’ – there is no trinity system so technically no-one can ‘tank’, although some might be ‘tankier’ than others.

please realise, the thief is a in-and-out kind of profession, you need to be quick and you need to pay attention to animations (enemy attacks), if it’s a big swing or a gtAoE you need to use your dodge/abilities to get out of it.

also…. a thief does very good damage, however this game is not like other MMO’s which depend solely on who does the most damage, this MMO is about killing your enemy and w1nn1ng. to do this you and your party must survive the onslaught, whether it is dungeons or PvP and to do this you must stay alive. survival is key, not damage output =)

Athene – “You’re pro or you’re a? noob.”

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Unicorn build in your dreams, it is called Blood Storm and I was probably the first person who made this build while people where rocking their PW and HS

@ OP, come do a 1v1 against me, name a time.

haha I love it when someone thinks they have copyright over a build. you sir are just silly. you didn’t come up with anything unless you designed and built the game :P

I have done auto attack with P/P in HoM and it took me 18sec to kill a medium target. 16sec with D/P.

Full burst I took the P/P to sub 10sec. D/P I took it down in less than 3sec

P/P is slow because it is depending on condition dmg and time for condition to tick, D/P is raw dmg and isn’t waiting for anything.

you call it nerf, they call it balance. whos right? the game developers that want the abilities to work as intended or the people that want to exploit said abilities. personally if you complain about a ‘nerf’ then dont be like every sheep in the flock and try something new, you might find you have been missing out on other really cool fun builds/abilities.

you are either really good as a thief (doubtful as PW has been nerfed and DB spam is a waste) or your pvping against complete noobs. no offence.

everything can counter a thief, provided the players know how. conditions can be removed and thief in melee against warrior/guardian without dodge/stealth will get smashed, at ranged hunters/engineers will also smash if you think P/P will help you survive. 1v1 against mobs, sure we can use black powder or shadow shot, but someone with a bit of skill will know how/when to attack a thief.

If you depend on rotation, then thief is not for you.

you need to use your skills to counter your opponent. combat doesn’t end after you do a rotation. it ends when either your opponent is dead or you are. a rotation will not accomplish the former. only skill (knowing what abilities to use and when).

Youtube Montage: Condition Build
####! GW2 PvP Montage #1

MM Build

yet to be explained

Power Build

This build focuses on raw damage, while retaining survivability.

Let me start by explaining the weapons. I have chosen staff as my main weapon to place marks all over the ground (at time of writing this, I have decided Spectral Grasp is better than Signet of Spite) I’ll explain shortly.

Stage 1, place marks on ground
Stage 2, switch to Axe/Focus for burst

To explain this build I will now explain my traits and how they are used

Traits:
Spiteful Spirit: retaliation for 3sec when in DS
Spiteful Marks: 10% more damage from marks
Greater Marks: marks are larger and unblockable
Close to Death: 10% more damage if foe is below 50% health
Staff Master: 20% faster skill recharge
Fear of Death: Fear on Downed
Master of Terror: Fear lasts 50% longer

Ok…

by now you have scenarios building in your head, yes this is bursty damage with very good CC and CD reduction.

The Ideas with this build is to place all marks/wells on top of each other and then cast spectral grasp on someone to pull them on top of all your damage. from here you want to CC them as much as possible so they take maximum damage, you can do unholy feast (axe) to slow them down or spinal shivers (focus), or you can pop into DS for retaliation (after the fear effect has ended) – keep thinking outside the box as you might come up with a very good CC ideas.

after they have taken all the damage from marks/wells, and you have used your axe damage abilities, switch back to staff for more marks or LICH to finish them off.

I don’t feel the need to explain this build further as it’s not designed for high survive, however the sigils on the weapons I have chosen give a little life steal back. I have taken Master of Terror as you will most likely get downed a lot and this will work well with Fear of Death.

I will post a PvP video shortly, keep an eye out

Condition Build

This build focuses on putting conditions (bleed,poison,blind,weakness,cripple) on your foe.

Attack 1 (blood/rending/putrid curse). this applies 2 x stacks of bleed and 1 stack of poison.
Attack 2 (grasping dead). this applies 1 stack of bleed and 1 stack of cripple allowing you to both keep your distance and add another bleed.

These 2 attacks leave your opponent slowed and suffering from some conditions
When they get close to you simply blind them with Attack 4 (deathly swarm) this is 6sec condition with an 18 sec CD, continue your onslaught with Attack 5 (enfeebling blood) to reduce their damage and another stack of bleed. at this point in the fight you should have ~4 stacks of bleed on your target and they would have suffered from a poison and you would/should be at distance. at this point you should use Attack 3 (feast of corruption to give you some LF)

This is a very basic breakdown of the initiator to a fight, if everything goes according to plan. I’m not going to instruct you on how to continue the fight as this is situational. but what I am trying to demonstrate is a very basic method for applying conditions for a condition build, while at the same time keeping yourself out of harms way.

Traits:

I will only explain my Major trait choices as these are what I aim for.

• I have chosen Spiteful Spirit (10 points in Spite) as retaliation while entering DS is very good for mitigating as much damage against your opponent. please note we are not going a power build so any further in spite is wasted trait points.
• I have chosen Weakening Shroud (10 points in Curses) enfeebling blood is amazing, it applies 2x stacks of bleed and 1x stack of weakness
• I have chosen Banshee’s Wail (20 points in Curses) the reason for this is we will be using the Wail of Doom to daze our opponents and Locust Swarm to get to a safe distance, these are needed for survivability, the more frequent we can use them, the more we will survive to output damage from a distance.
• I have chosen Spectral Attunement (30 points in Curses) this was chosen as I have Spectral Armor and the fact there was no other traits that I would benefit from. Essentially this was needed for my maximum amount of condition damage from Curses Traits.
• Close to Death was simply to output more damage when our opponent is below 50% health
• Vampiric Precision was chosen to heal me as I crit
• Vital Persistence was chosen to keep me in DS form for as long as possible

All this can be seen from my link, the idea of this build is to output as much Condition damage while still being hard to kill. (if you are dead, you output little to no damage)

A good combo is Blood is Power then Plague Signet on your opponent – this does good damage provided they don’t wipe the effect.

Abilities to help me survive in this build are as follows:

Scepter: Grasping Dead (Cripple 5s)
Scepter: Feast of Corruption (Possibly the best and most overlooked attack that is never used correctly, the more conditions you have on a foe when you use this, buffs your LF) with LF you can enter DS = survive
Dagger: Deathly Swarm (Blind 6s)

Axe: Unholy Feast (Retaliation 3s)
Warhorn: Wail of Doom (Daze 2s)
Warhorn: Locust Swarm (Cripple 1s while Swiftness 10s)

And for my skills:

Consume Conditions (…)
Plague Signet (transfer my conditions to a foe)
Spectral Armor (Protection 6s) and (gain LF when taking damage)

Dont forget DS – if we can keep this building up all the time, we take no damage, we only take the damage that we build into DS. please note this is not a MM/DS build for pure tank/survive, it is a condition damage build with survivability.

To answer everyone’s thoughts on why I didn’t choose a staff.

1. AoE is difficult to use in PvP (lets be honest, you can do a lot of damage to many enemy IF they are in your AoE and very little damage 1v1)
2. you can stack bleed every (6sec) with Mark of Blood provided they actually walk over your mark
3. Chillblains is great, I love it, but it is a (20sec) CD – no traits
4. Reaper’s Mark is Fantastic, I love it, but it is a (40sec) CD – no traits
5. Scepter/Dagger combo gives a more reliable condition stacking (hence this build) and allows for better survive (Grasping Dead 10sec CD, Deathly Swarm 18sec CD, Enfeebling Blood 25sec CD) – no traits

Youtube Montage: Condition Build
####! GW2 PvP Montage #1

MM Build

yet to be explained

Power Build

This build focuses on raw damage, while retaining survivability.

Let me start by explaining the weapons. I have chosen staff as my main weapon to place marks all over the ground (at time of writing this, I have decided Spectral Grasp is better than Signet of Spite) I’ll explain shortly.

Stage 1, place marks on ground
Stage 2, switch to Axe/Focus for burst

To explain this build I will now explain my traits and how they are used

Traits:
Spiteful Spirit: retaliation for 3sec when in DS
Spiteful Marks: 10% more damage from marks
Greater Marks: marks are larger and unblockable
Close to Death: 10% more damage if foe is below 50% health
Staff Master: 20% faster skill recharge
Fear of Death: Fear on Downed
Master of Terror: Fear lasts 50% longer

Ok…

by now you have scenarios building in your head, yes this is bursty damage with very good CC and CD reduction.

The Ideas with this build is to place all marks/wells on top of each other and then cast spectral grasp on someone to pull them on top of all your damage. from here you want to CC them as much as possible so they take maximum damage, you can do unholy feast (axe) to slow them down or spinal shivers (focus), or you can pop into DS for retaliation (after the fear effect has ended) – keep thinking outside the box as you might come up with a very good CC ideas.

after they have taken all the damage from marks/wells, and you have used your axe damage abilities, switch back to staff for more marks or LICH to finish them off.

I don’t feel the need to explain this build further as it’s not designed for high survive, however the sigils on the weapons I have chosen give a little life steal back. I have taken Master of Terror as you will most likely get downed a lot and this will work well with Fear of Death.

I will post a PvP video shortly, keep an eye out

Condition Build

This build focuses on putting conditions (bleed,poison,blind,weakness,cripple) on your foe.

Attack 1 (blood/rending/putrid curse). this applies 2 x stacks of bleed and 1 stack of poison.
Attack 2 (grasping dead). this applies 1 stack of bleed and 1 stack of cripple allowing you to both keep your distance and add another bleed.

These 2 attacks leave your opponent slowed and suffering from some conditions
When they get close to you simply blind them with Attack 4 (deathly swarm) this is 6sec condition with an 18 sec CD, continue your onslaught with Attack 5 (enfeebling blood) to reduce their damage and another stack of bleed. at this point in the fight you should have ~4 stacks of bleed on your target and they would have suffered from a poison and you would/should be at distance. at this point you should use Attack 3 (feast of corruption to give you some LF)

This is a very basic breakdown of the initiator to a fight, if everything goes according to plan. I’m not going to instruct you on how to continue the fight as this is situational. but what I am trying to demonstrate is a very basic method for applying conditions for a condition build, while at the same time keeping yourself out of harms way.

Traits:

I will only explain my Major trait choices as these are what I aim for.

• I have chosen Spiteful Spirit (10 points in Spite) as retaliation while entering DS is very good for mitigating as much damage against your opponent. please note we are not going a power build so any further in spite is wasted trait points.
• I have chosen Weakening Shroud (10 points in Curses) enfeebling blood is amazing, it applies 2x stacks of bleed and 1x stack of weakness
• I have chosen Banshee’s Wail (20 points in Curses) the reason for this is we will be using the Wail of Doom to daze our opponents and Locust Swarm to get to a safe distance, these are needed for survivability, the more frequent we can use them, the more we will survive to output damage from a distance.
• I have chosen Spectral Attunement (30 points in Curses) this was chosen as I have Spectral Armor and the fact there was no other traits that I would benefit from. Essentially this was needed for my maximum amount of condition damage from Curses Traits.
• Close to Death was simply to output more damage when our opponent is below 50% health
• Vampiric Precision was chosen to heal me as I crit
• Vital Persistence was chosen to keep me in DS form for as long as possible

All this can be seen from my link, the idea of this build is to output as much Condition damage while still being hard to kill. (if you are dead, you output little to no damage)

A good combo is Blood is Power then Plague Signet on your opponent – this does good damage provided they don’t wipe the effect.

Abilities to help me survive in this build are as follows:

Scepter: Grasping Dead (Cripple 5s)
Scepter: Feast of Corruption (Possibly the best and most overlooked attack that is never used correctly, the more conditions you have on a foe when you use this, buffs your LF) with LF you can enter DS = survive
Dagger: Deathly Swarm (Blind 6s)

Axe: Unholy Feast (Retaliation 3s)
Warhorn: Wail of Doom (Daze 2s)
Warhorn: Locust Swarm (Cripple 1s while Swiftness 10s)

And for my skills:

Consume Conditions (…)
Plague Signet (transfer my conditions to a foe)
Spectral Armor (Protection 6s) and (gain LF when taking damage)

Dont forget DS – if we can keep this building up all the time, we take no damage, we only take the damage that we build into DS. please note this is not a MM/DS build for pure tank/survive, it is a condition damage build with survivability.

To answer everyone’s thoughts on why I didn’t choose a staff.

1. AoE is difficult to use in PvP (lets be honest, you can do a lot of damage to many enemy IF they are in your AoE and very little damage 1v1)
2. you can stack bleed every (6sec) with Mark of Blood provided they actually walk over your mark
3. Chillblains is great, I love it, but it is a (20sec) CD – no traits
4. Reaper’s Mark is Fantastic, I love it, but it is a (40sec) CD – no traits
5. Scepter/Dagger combo gives a more reliable condition stacking (hence this build) and allows for better survive (Grasping Dead 10sec CD, Deathly Swarm 18sec CD, Enfeebling Blood 25sec CD) – no traits