Guild Wars 2

waeren.9743:

Well we are not exactly talking about “many”. DAoC subscription numbers weren’t exactly huge but the players just seem to be pretty vocal.

DaoC had alot of suck as well (Toa, waaay too much pve), Warhammer was better and worse in many ways.

Gw2 has alot going for it, with some tweaks it could be great. right now I am seeing players that normally play alot, playing other games already.

Not asking for the world, some small tweaks would go along ways.

Further out I would love to see scenarios/instanced pvp we can take our wvw characters into capture the flag, something like Nordenwatch, Battle for Praag or even AV.

I believe the devs mentioned they might do this, that would be great for times when wvw is slow for whatever reason.

Sky.9347:

No, I am not. But I do read, and I can understand the things I read.

http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-ferguson-on-guild-wars-2-world-vs-world

There are others, but that is the most official. Read that, and I think you will get a good idea of the vision.

What you stated was that everyone’s opinions over time will change to agree with yours. Anyone with 30 years experience in game development should know that this just isn’t true.

I read that 6 months ago too, it at no point states any of the things you claimed for Arena.Net in your above posts. (and no i did not say anything about 30 years in game development, funny when you mention understanding what you read in same post :P)

Its fine to have an opinion, but you are not speaking for Arena net.

Sky.9347:

So… long story short… keep in mind the vision of this game when you make suggestions. This isn’t DAoC, and while there may be specific elements of that game that would be nice to have here, changing the entire vision of WvW is presumptuous and short-sighted. Furthermore – insulting everyone who disagrees with you indirectly by saying they haven’t got enough experience or thought-evolution to understand you is borderline narcissistic.

You are not setting this vision, period. Its fine to have your view, but you are not stating your view, you are claiming to know the devs intentions and goals.

I clearly stated everyone’s including my own changes over time in world v world, and whats fun in it.

gaspara.4079:

I’m not sure if any of you have ever been in a medieval battle but you aren’t usually on a first name basis with your opponent unless you are the king/lord/commander of one of the forces.

….

Nor do real people respawn after dying.. obviously this is a video game..

People who have less than 2-3 years world v world experience have a much different view of alot of this I realize, I know my views changed over the years.

I play a Support guardian, so yes I well know the value of my role, but I am clearly telling you alot of people are wanting to see more meaning information than the pve objective “score”.

Arakinis.5372:

Mikitten058:

Keeping names unknown is a way to avoid:
Flamming
Trolling
Trash talk between players
Harassment

It also helps keep people’s ego’s down, and makes it so the “SERVER” has to work as a full community to achieve success, instead of a few people.

If you want individual fame, go hop right into structured PvP matches.

Nailed it, Mishi…. Anet obviously doesn’t want WvW to devolve into an individual based match, they want to keep it at the server and guild level. Which I think they should, because WvW in GW2 is about the whole community and not just the individual. If you hunger for personal fame and recognition try s/tPvP. I personally like to anonymity factor in WvW cause it keeps the trolling to a minimum and when there is trolling it’s about a group, be it guild or server instead of an individual. After all GW2 is not DaoC or any other mmo.

Yes, and everyone should work on the commune to make the country strong, oh wait that did not work either…

PvP or Player vs Player is about the players. The devs have never stated anything you just proclaimed. And if they do this game will be very very short lived. Its already out of content, its really about the quality of the sandbox, and the reason many bought the game.

Again the point is not to be warhammer/DaoC, but learn what makes for a fun sandbox.

You are missing the point if you think I want them to make the game l jsut like previous games.

People go through levels of understanding on World V World that take several years to develop (which is why the reference to past games is important). People who focus on the pve portions and object trading typically dont last long, and blame devs. They zerg around, are often horrible skilled, and can’t figure out why taking the same keep 10000 times a month gets old.

People who focus on having fun in battles and running skilled 5 man teams/warbands, ie focus on quality and fun vs taking the same keep 100000 times a month last alot longer. They understand how to have fun in a sandbox.

I dont need to post anywhere else, I am posting here. I have been a software developer for 30 years, we spend millions and fly all over the world every year finding out what our customers think and finding out what we could do better to build new products.

If the devs can’t bother to read their own forums, its ok they will not be in the industry much longer.

Jackknife.1025:

dooger.2640:

In warhammer you could see who was tearing it up, from kill spam and mods to track it.

Well, you ain’t in WAR. You’re in GW2.

Sort of weird to go to a new game and expect what you were dealing with in a completely separate MMO. Warhammer’s team had a different vision of PvP. Guild Wars was probably intended to focus on guilds, not individual names for glory. Hence why 90% of the content is focused on guilds.

Yes, Obviously this is gw2. How successful it’s sandbox will will depends on their willingness to listen to its player base.

Guilds are made of people, heck right now not grouping with guild is better as the group color of blue on text names is almost invisible. Out of group guildmates are much much more visible.

Is that doomsday? no of course not, jsut feedback people would like to see to make the game more fun, and help keep peopel having a good time.

Romanus.8023:

Do you guys even read the rest of these threads?

There have been many threads on here that are simply named after the matchup of the week, and the trash talk begins.

Community takes time. Rivalries take even longer. The Yankees and Red Sox didn’t get a fanbase in a month nor did they have a rivalry in a month. Give it some time.

I rather like only being able to see the Guild Tag on enemies. I’m in a very small guild, but there have been a least a couple times when we have gone off mission because we spotted a particular guild that we decided to hate for some reason.

Do you want WvW to truly be about the community or about individuals? There is a balance to be struck, and I think Anet is on the right side of this one.

We understand this very well, keep in mind I am talking guild of veteran players, with dozens of players we know from other guilds popping by in vent echoing same feelings.

People are bored with current sandbox due to the reasons I outlined. We played through all the problems warhammer had, we well understand the cycles of zergs, people migrating to winning sides, balance, server lag stuff.

Alot of this works it self out, but to keep players interested in playing through out the process will require arena net to do more.

ya, I can agree with that, pvp ranks/titles are fun.

Right now there is just the gold sink “commander”

Agony.4638:

10-and-15 mans are still powerful even without Zzzz. And all the roles are still good: but instead of buffs/dmg/heal/cc it’s more like assist ddmg/support/manipulate positioning/aoe/interrupts/heals. I also recommend stop having any stakers – you don’t need them. Use interrupts/frontload correctly and you won’t have a problem.

We get 10-20 people down in first few seconds, luckily we get a bunch of stragglers following to help stake the piles. I call it a lawn mower simulation lol. This is less of an issue for low dps teams, of course stomping a couple of people is trivial.

Its not an issue of being hard, its all about boring.

People that played 8+ hours a day in previous games are simply not logging in in eves, and thats not something i would have ever thought I would see (we have been waiting for gw2 along time)

I think taking out the 2 second invlunerability when going down would help. Going down should not be a boon.

crewthief.8649:

What’s up RLH. Was in Munshara on Gorfang with a few of you guys. And I remember your Sorc Noten. RvR is still new and shiny for alot of these guys. I say give the game a bit of time though man, i’m fairly certain they’ll improve on it quite a bit over time. The framework is in place for something very good in my opinion.

Hey man! Good to see so many Gorfang players in gw2!

By trash talk I do mean forums, I never bother talking in pvp even if the game allows it.

And I also mean adult level talk, which is hard for some i do realize.

Knowing who you fight and knowing quality of allies and foes is meaningful information. In warhammer it was pretty common for our Tanks to be at 2to 3x the kills of dps of some of the know it all battlefield commanders.

Heck even in Vanilla wow there were people I would seek out in open world pvp to fight, rivalries are what make a sandbox fun.

We certainly don’t want gear grinders, voice acting and pve added. Let the players provide the content, this game has the framework, and I am very very hopeful the devs start to “get it”

Sky.9347:

dooger.2640:

Sky.9347:

Downed – You mention WvW and “high end” PvP at the same time, which is confusing to me. The only problem I have with the downed state is that it is unequal across all professions.

We run 2 groups, and will hit 20-30 people, in warhammer we used alot more movement, falling back pushing back in hard on extenders, and countless tactics. With downed system we have to move in hard burst down 10 or so, and have one group staking while other group continues bursting down people.

Being on staking duty sucks and is boring game play.

Ok, I get that. I would agree with you there.

Where I disagree, is that I see WvW and the resulting battles not as fighting for kills, but rather fighting for area control.

Downing people means they mostly stay put. Yea, Ele, Mes, Thief have some minor ability to move, but for the most part they stay still.

The game then becomes more about controlling territory than spiking down enemies. Running spike comps may be effective, but if you can’t ever push and hold ground you’ll never fully kill anyone or rez anyone. If your team is exceptional at holding their ground, the downed state becomes super-effective for you.

I like it better this way. I was never a big fan of spike strategy, I rather have territory strategy. The downed state directly incentivizes PvPers to stop focusing on kills and start focusing on position.

The pve objectives get played heavily when games start, over the course of the sand box lifespan, its important people can enjoy the battles, esp when you cant stay on for 12+ hours to push a city invasion (this game does not have), or endless zone domination.

Area control simply becomes endless hours, and those players typically quit at a few months

dooger.2640:

So, when you say community, how can you discount these three layers of community in just the WvW game-mode alone? I mean… sPvP has it’s own community based around guilds and tournament teams. Granted, both are still in their infancy with transfers wide open and no rank system, but both are quite clearly there and ready to be built upon.

Yes, and simple things like letting us build warband to make it easier to group up more than 5 people is a basic.

WvW is the sandbox that people will keep playing in gw2, and it needs help asap.

I posted in the WvW section, and posted we are a hard core wvw guild (so thats our focus). Pve in this game is MIA, and not what pvpers enjoy. spvp is too big of a topic for here.

Building pvp communities is a staple of a sandbox wvw game, and I hope they will build it up

Sky.9347:

Downed – You mention WvW and “high end” PvP at the same time, which is confusing to me. The only problem I have with the downed state is that it is unequal across all professions.

We run 2 groups, and will hit 20-30 people, in warhammer we used alot more movement, falling back pushing back in hard on extenders, and countless tactics. With downed system we have to move in hard burst down 10 or so, and have one group staking while other group continues bursting down people.

Being on staking duty sucks and is boring game play.

Hopefully these devs will listen, there is alot of good basic framework here.
If Warhammer had this framework it would be alive and well still.

It strange they hit so many good things, but missed on the most important thing a sandbox needs which is community

My guild has done WvW or Rvr for eons, we love it but the current wvw in gw2 does not cut it.

We expect and normally love fighting big zergs, and love the trash talk and community that normally forms with rolling huge numbers with good groups.

But here the pvp is all anonymous, no-name, no infamy stuff. Who is kicking kitten in the zone? who knows. In warhammer you could see who was tearing it up, from kill spam and mods to track it. We had people that were fun to fight against, and had long standing feuds & rivalries, that turned into friendships (we have had several old enemies join us in new games). Here its all dry toast…

The normal fun of fighting huge numbers with a smaller force, if further dumbed down with the orbs, and the downed system. The old triad in structured groups is replaced with 2 roles: killers and stakers. One group is maxed out dps to down people fast, and the other is on stake duty. This works very very well, but its garbage game play. People don’t want to stake rez, I even hear people wishing they could heal and be part of the action again.

Rezzing is great in pve and garbage rvr (the bad players all standing 10 feet apart shooting arrows),it jsut breaks down in anything coordinated really really fast.

In any event, my suggestions (That I am sure other have brought up as well)
- Orbs need to be toned way down, way too much to hand the already dominating faction (and likely dominating at night)
- Show enemy player names, and show some zone statistics on kills/ rez/ whatever, lets give people some bragging rights and attempt to get community going
- Downed system is not an easy fix, but its just not fun in high end pvp. Remove the invulnerability when going down in WvW as a start, and keep it as is for pve.

The pvp here is all anon, no name, nobody even knows they are fighting you.

Zones dont show kill counts, or allow warband groups, basically nothing to help build community or develop rivalries/notoriety.. anything.

Pvp is about gloating and beating people you know on other side, this is all pve keep trading cause its lacks core understanding of why people pvp.

It encourages pvers only, and thats what the game got, people going to servers to pve up their gear faster.

Downed state, water fighting and nameless players are critical to reducing server queues.

it also opens up the new team comp into a new 2 part role, killers and stompers.
You need one group to down and another to follow up stomping people.

Oh sure this is the worst and most unfun role ever to appear in a pvp title, but it keeps server queues from growing.

What I dont get is if you are moving stuff, why not make it match up with 1h sword so jump is always button 2, and the spinning attack is 3?

Seriously annoying, and so easy for them to not scramble.

The ui is bare min, poor choices make it a double whammy bad