I like 30 points in arms better, and grab furious. F1 in a zerg and you refill adrenaline bar zoom zoom.
try 0 30 20 0 20 zerker + longbow it hits like a truck without gimping ones self in tactics.
I expect to die if I walk into a cluster F@#$@#$ like that.
What I dont expect is a medium armour class fighting me to be able to hit me much harder and be able to effectively be much tankier at same time.
Class balance is all relative, the devs do a few changes and say, “there we go”. you gotta have a big plan on tradeoffs and goals for damage/survivalibity/group support across class lines.
The worst part is ZERO communication to customers. These guys are right up there with swtor devs and mythic for lack of communication/plan.
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I created a Warrior pre-patch on the basis of using him for Dungeons such as CoF P1 runs and Farming in general, because my other 80 a Thief, is lacking in those two areas and well I use him for WvW anyways…
My Warrior is currently level 37 and growing, using a GS/Rifle setup for leveling up, what I want to know since the patch and reading all the negative comments on this class, what am I looking at as far as a build that would compete with how well the GS+? did in Dungeon Speed Runs, ect.
Thanks!
Warrior is still fun, and under powered in some areas.
I have a thief and a guardian, but both end up boring me.
The patch was kind of sideways, thats a real issue as warriors were needing buffs in several areas.
The one thing Warriors can count on after patch?
We will not hear from devs one way or the other.
Love or hate the patch, one way or another there are several open items needing to be addressed, and not in 6 months when ANet is trying to sell an xpack (lol).
Warrior peak burst needed to be toned down, that certainly happened.
Warriors ability to hang in on a fight (many ways to achieve, poor avoidance, poor sustain, issues with conditions all options) is worst I have seen in a class since Rangers in eq1. Was sort of half addressed (thats fine, we needed to start somewhere)
Nerfs to leg specialist made no sense, it punishes weapon swappers, trying to play at a higher level than button spammers.
Cleansing ire + blind changes is mediocre at best. As always it feels warrior work was done in a vacuum.
I am expecting some of the buggy movement stuff will be addressed in short order as part of bug squashing??? again where are devs?
Right now amazing players get to enjoy playing a class you have to earn you kills on vs average players. Lasting longer at the expense of being a wing armed wonder is not what anyone enjoys playing.
Hey i appreciate the attempts, but lets follow through and communicate, and work through a reasonable set of change to bring warrior survivability / dps ratios inline with other classes.
We don’t need to waiting 6 months to “see how meta plays out”
We do need to hear from devs, and hear a short term plan
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In general warriors get “ORs” and other classes get “ANDs”.
This patch added a few “ands” on a few abilities, but the core philosophy stays. Just look at stuff they have not messed with, like water weapons rogue will block then pown anyone who hits at them, we get a block and.. nothing.
Of cource guardian hammer gets protection and combo fields and force field bubble
We need a nerf to leg specialist so sword/hammer users cant get 2 roots in another cool down.
Devs are lost and spend all their time loading up warrior with limiting mechanics ever since that German kid in beta made the eviscerate video. omg, warriros are running around powning everyone! quick put in limits and cooldowns lower ranges on everything!
Nothing earth shattering, but allows me to do good damage and take punch and go in and out of combat (our sustain is runnning away briefly :P) post patch.
Basic spread is:
0-30-20-0-20
Knights armour +Hoelbrak and zerker everything else.
25 stacks of bloodlust + stones + food based on situation (regen/-cond or pure dps increase)
What I like about the spread is allows for alot of reconfigurations with trait changes and not respecing on the fly. I can grab traits for: Axe, Gs,rifles, sword or hammer as needed.
I was swapping between:
- axe/shield + GS
- Axe Shield + Rifle
- GS + longbow
- sword/shield + hammer
and it played well in its role. Common Tactic selection for build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAR3ejcOxutQGPMxBEkCNsKOPAQmg8UKsDAA-jEyAYLioZCTgoPwJwioxWBLiGruGT5SEVbwLiWtQAlHDA-w
(builder does not show cleansing ire and destruction of impowered properly yet
The main thing I found post patch is builds with points in tactics for some util (leg specialist/warhorn) end up wing armed wonders. I do miss hammer with leg specialist greatly. I just cant find a way to make any points in tactics work post patch, same with any pvt gear. We just cant sacrifice other stats or key traits to go there anymore
Survival requires:
- occasional retreat out of combat to heal
- building adrenaline before fights (hit a deer if needed)
- weapon swap with offhand energy gives us more dodge
- selecting right weapons for fights, it pays to range somedays
- killing stuff, we are a burst class eviserate kills we cant sustain other classes
- Tagging stuff to rally in zerg fights
- Always need to have food, bloodlust and stones running
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I think you want to post your secret new build, and are desperate to have someone ask.
So here we go, what is your new super secret build you are hinting at in 15 different threads ;P
Sigh. No. My build won’t help you, because you’re clearly using something else.
Additionally my build isn’t the build, it’s just a build. My point is less USE MY BUILD! and more trying to help you realize if there is a problem with your build. Maybe there is, maybe there isn’t. Won’t know till I know what you’re using.
Again, was not asking for your “expert advise”, esp as a self proclaimed pve only warrior up to the patch.
I know the class very well, have planned improvements tonight. But am not thrilled with the current bias point relative to overall class balance.
And F blinds and the horse they rode in on. Its clearly time to adapt, and am in the process.. just dont like it so far.
Games are about fun, this is not quiet heading that way
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if Unsuspecting Foe worked on knocked down as well as stunned, i would like it better.
I think you want to post your secret new build, and are desperate to have someone ask.
So here we go, what is your new super secret build you are hinting at in 15 different threads ;P
Lol, we need a full build to help you, man. Post the specifics of whatever you are leaning towards if you want help with refining.
Lol, nah never asked for that, was commenting on the patch in general.
Just not feeling it, and in general our baseline feels lower with better run speed.
I have multiple sets, knights with holebrek, zerker with divinity,
multiple of every weapon zerker with different sigils. (offhands always energy for more dodging)
zerker ascended stuff.
on hybrid builds usually sitting around 2700-2800 ac, with doggged march + -20 condition duration from holbrek and -36 to -40 from food
So conditions melt fairly quickly, I have been trying to regain dps by removing the 20 points from tactics, and moving them around.
My crit is obvious spot needing improvement in hybrid build. Will try oil tonight.
I was running a 10/0/30/20/10 build hammer + sw & horn for rough fighting or a glass 10 30 0 0 30 gw + axe shield, and obviously changing around weapons as needed for fights.
Been trying variations of 0 10 30 10 20 and such, dps loss is very noticeable. We got the short end of the straw on this weeks rvr match up system too so to be fair test time is limited to primetime.
I will probably need to switch to oil or stones to get my crit up, find a few more tweaks.. I was wrecking people in morning, then respecing all evening lol.
where ever the sweet spot is, its not easy to find anymore, I am cool with the patch toning down glass burst, hybrid builds seemed to gotten it the worst.
Maybe i will need to take more advantage of 25% run speed and go glassier to hit harder. more hit and run, shrugs.
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Like a new mini skirt in prison, the new warrior seemed cute and fun at first.
Rolled a few high rank wvw nubs, started thinking about making a video.
And then you run into an equally skilled player on class that got buffed, not a pink mini skirt..
play tester did not want to buy more gems for slots to try warriors, they are not need for spvp in any event :p
You warriors are aware you only get substain when you actually gear for it right?
My guardian does not need to gear +heal and has insane sustain, so does my rogue
Next.
Before the patch peak burst damage on pure glass builds was too high, however these changes hit the hybrid tanky builds too hard.
Dissapointed offhand axe damage increased only in spvp and not in wvw. The 5 people playing spvp on the planet are probably very excited /eye roll
its just in spvp, you can see damage change up only in spvp zone.
Only the tick tack toe version of gw2 pvp, that garbage that is spvp got the off hand axe damage increase..
Unreal.
drop 10 points from tactics and get zerker power, and get warhorn from tactic tree.
traited warnhorn surpised me, the condition remove and buffs I like better than the shouts (you get protection and regen here and there)
We are supposed to be melee in a sturdy body, however it appears each class was designed with very little cross communication.
We are sturdy only when attacking target dummies, the relative dps/survivablity ratio is so bad its sick.
Couple basic rules:
- You must always have food and either oil/stones up at all times
- 2 axes with runes of bloodlust to quickly get 25 stacks on npcs (never use in pvp)
- 2800ish armour is in sweet spot
- being able to shed root is critical
- Yes you need more than one set of armour10 25 15 0 20 wearing knights armour with hoelbrak runes rest zerker. is great for running gs with some survivablity.
I am running 10 0 30 20 10 right now so I can mix it up with hammer in heavy zergs, and swap to traited warhorn. I am liking this build more than I thought I would.
Yea, but I’m playing Axe/Axe + Longbow. Also, no, I will not have two sets of armor.
wearing knights armour with hoelbrak runes, rest zerker works well regardless of weapons.
Just like armour you have to change weapons out of bag depending on situation.
Great build, not to far off from my own. Unless your dead set on Embrace the Pain I’d suggest either 10 in Tactics for Leg Specialist or another 10 in Strength for Slashing Power. Also I’d prefer Cavalier trinkets over sentinel due to the large damage increase versus the minimal survivability increase.
Thanks, I’m starting to think about Ascended trinkets, have enough laurels for most of them – is 5x Cavalier the way to go for these?
I would not consider anything but power/pre/crit damage on ascended
Its easier to maintain multiple sets of armour to get various degrees of tankiness and still be able to go full out damage when you want.
if you mix both zerker and cavalier trinkets, not armor , great damage output and defence, cant remember the name of the chap who posted on here but traits 0/10/20/20/20, real cool build he posted youtube vids of his build to lazy to find it.
You can get same stats by getting zerk ascended, but retain the option for going full dps on swap. Gotta love 4.5k atk power with 120% crit for those 21k kill shots.
No reason to give up options.
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I use dual axe only with bloodlust sigils to get 25 stacks on npcs.
I never use in combat with players.
axe with warhorn or shield is stronger.
Come next patch if the leaked notes are true, its likely to be viable. I would expect to see people using sword /axe (jump in and then aoe), and axe + xxx alot too though, I dont like the lack of cc and mobility with double axe
Couple basic rules:
- You must always have food and either oil/stones up at all times
- 2 axes with runes of bloodlust to quickly get 25 stacks on npcs (never use in pvp)
- 2800ish armour is in sweet spot
- being able to shed root is critical
- Yes you need more than one set of armour
10 25 15 0 20 wearing knights armour with hoelbrak runes rest zerker. is great for running gs with some survivablity.
I am running 10 0 30 20 10 right now so I can mix it up with hammer in heavy zergs, and swap to traited warhorn. I am liking this build more than I thought I would.
Great build, not to far off from my own. Unless your dead set on Embrace the Pain I’d suggest either 10 in Tactics for Leg Specialist or another 10 in Strength for Slashing Power. Also I’d prefer Cavalier trinkets over sentinel due to the large damage increase versus the minimal survivability increase.
Thanks, I’m starting to think about Ascended trinkets, have enough laurels for most of them – is 5x Cavalier the way to go for these?
I would not consider anything but power/pre/crit damage on ascended
Its easier to maintain multiple sets of armour to get various degrees of tankiness and still be able to go full out damage when you want.
I dont do alot of wvw with my warrior, mainly tpvp, but i would like to understand how to get a lot of crit dmg (something like 90%), and still have good toughness, power and precision.
So you want to create a God?
Yeah, I’m working on it.
But 90% crit damage is a wild dream even for a Full zerker Glass Cannon warr.
I think this is the maximum you can get
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQFAXAZvAgRBABpeAAAAA-TgAg0CnI4SxljLDXSus1A
But I think is ill-advised. Seriously.
When i run glass cannon i have 108% crit damage unbuffed, more with food.
I only use that in sniper mode with rifle, gotta 21.5k crit on a debuffed mesmer lol.
You die in 3 seconds to a rogue however, its not something viable in 95% of the cases.
The patch is bad enough its probably real, you can see where they fixed some obvious broken things, but missed the big picture. A bunch of meetings with people drinking too much coffee, lots of concessions, and a few obvious under powered or useless tactics (useless as in can’t afford to waste a tactic on) repaired.
Most warriors will see a dps loss (esp hybrid tanky builds) and -5 seconds to heal ability.
A few good traits fixed in disc tree, but the tree itself is still weak due to spending points to get brawn. Other classes are getting better bang for the buck on trait points.
I can see doing this patch internally to get a feel for how low warrior dps will be as you are reworking adrenaline usage, but this should not go live, esp with how slow arenanet is.
anything but a quick check on relative damage and survivability here is silly. Instead it will be 4 months and zero communication.
Obvious stuff just does not get fixed fast enough, did it really take almost a year to figure out warriors sprint should not be so low? esp relative to other classes run speed buffs? Its clear there are big communication issues on the design team, its really time to do less balancing in a bubble on each class.
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It amazes me that i can still change targets and hit an ability and have it go after old target..
How is this code still active after so many months?
pvp games simply can’t wait for “settling” on items that will not settle.
the game is not new anymore, grace period is long over on the basics.
Randomized wvw matches is nto what the game needed.
How about:
- making tab targeting not prefer pets
- enlarging wvw maps
- balancing classes (no 1-2 changes every 3 months is not settling meta, its ignoring players
- showing player names in wvw
- showing kill statistics for zone, I wanna see who is kicking kitten
Thinking wvw is is about scoring flipping towers at 2 am in a mini mapped battleground instance that needs faster map changes is not where rvr needs to go.
The current methodology is “settling” the way warhammer did, by players leaving and server consolidating.
Its time to see some effort, combat’s overly simple tick tack toe level of complexity needs to get balanced faster. weapon sets with 5 buttons cant sit with even one button broken/sub par etc.
I was typically running a 10/30/0/0/30 burst build that is amazing other than suitability.
I used to always pop over to a 10/25/15/0/20 build to retain key offensive traits:
- Berserker power
- Attack of Opportunity
- Mobile strikes
while grabbing dogged march and adrenale health, its great but I do miss burst mastery for for popping over to axe to gib someone. To give up the huge burst damage of my previous build I expect more in terms of what I gain.
I have been experimenting with a build close to Tryion’s, but uses traited warhorn in offswap.
Its not quiet what I want, but the traited warhorn is really nice in group play.
Its pretty strong in many cases, I kinda would like to add some more pizzaz and crit. I will probably drop 15 points from defense and play around some more.
I am switching weapons constantly as the battle changes in wvw.
Been running 10 30 0 0 30, usually use:
- knights + gs and something for melee or
- Full zerker and choose between rifle bow + side kick weapon depending on situation
I like:
GS + axe/warhorn: open field roaming mobility and burst damage up close
rifle + whatever makes sense: had some nice one shots today, a 21k and a 17.5k crit on light armour foe (total glass build 4k atk 110% crit, zero suitability but oh man sniper time! )
GS + bow: aoe beast mode arc shot 8k aoe crit on up to 5, F1 is insane (Furious and burst master recharge adren super fast with F1 aoe critting). I run burst build so bow is zerker and is for big aoe hits + F1 area control. I hated bow till i had gear for it to get nice 7-8k aoe crits
Hammer + gs: Gs to get up in fast, then unload with hammer F1. Fun stuff, dont need to spec for hammer to hit like a truck.
axe/mace + either hammer/gs/bow: offhand mace surprises people, and 12k eviscerate finishes the deal nicely
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Trying to make world v world more about being a keep capture instanced battleground is not what rvr /wvw is about.
They do need to add instanced pvp for our real characters to play in (not that garbage ultra fail spvp swill)
Wvw and rvr was always about the the people and rivalries, the current failed design that makes it about capturing empty keeps at 3 am, turning it more into a 3 way world of warcraft hot join AV is 100% not the direction to go.
Most of the devs in ESO beta, no time for balance
Longbow works well for power/crit builds, 7-9k arcing shot aoe crits get peoples attention.
Warriors do a couple of things well and thats burst, mobility and cc. longbow works better for burst than rifle in mobile wvw open field scenarios. F1 on longbow is used for area denial, backing people out of choke points doors/etc.
In any event if you are not swapping your secondary weapons out of bag constantly, you are doing something wrong. I am switching from GS/hammer to gs/axehorn, rifle/longbow, gs longbow, GS/swdaxe constantly.
Its all about fighting conditions, many of our weapons are OP in certain situations and garbage in others.
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run away builds are just that, other than scouting they are garbage.
Plenty of classes can build build wing arm turtle/run away, /shrugs
A proper built dps one is the danger, there you need to watch the initial burst and have some aoe to hit stealth.
They will get interested in fixing stuff when the sound of crickets drowns out the xpack marketing campaign.
Squads and commanders seem to be focused around selling gold.
groups got one good working feature: the group target icon.
otherwise:
- Guild members text color is more visible not in a group
- squads seem useless, cant share targets or even show peoples health etc
- We never wanted people outside our groups to see our commander
- Opening up guild menu to click on your friends and invite to group gives one option: report. … seriously.. so handy… how about invite instead?
playing a “cant kill anything build” is silly when other classes can spec out damage and have super high evasion at same time.
watch a war fight a guardian, blinds and nearly full time protection
or vs a thief with stealth, blinds and weakness.
Its not that these class cant be countered, its how easy they can spec to have solid defense and still put out damage.
/shrug give hammer protection and we might have something interesting.
ah ok, wierd
Thanks for replies
I was rank 16 and it said Raider, I changed guilds and now it says Recruit?
Is this working as intended?
The point was that the difference between the bursts are negligible even the speed of which the thieves happen isn’t all that much faster than anyone elses and of course theives weapon skills have worse cooldowns than other peoples once the initiative has spent due to the fact they can’t just swap weapons to access another lot.
this is a 100% false statement, nothing comes close to dagger burst on a thief by a mile.
I realize no amount of reality will alter your perception, its simply a matter of the devs fixing it or fading away.
The only real difference between a thief burst and anyone elses burst is that a thief’s will be over in a shorter time. However to pay for that effect after that burst the thief has used up basically everything they have to do that and have the lowest defense potential in the game, they are also in a much more vulnerable position and they’ve had to work generally much harder to hit that damage potential to begin with.
Yes, doing a ton of damage in the shortest time possible is whats burst is all about.
Now if by defenseless you are comparing to a AH guardian/ D/D ele, sure but they are not insta gibbing people.
Otherwise all the classes are pretty much toast if you get caught out of endurance/cds.
The Rifle warrior is instantly dead to the very first thief that spots him in this case, with zero chance of being alive in 3 seconds.
Thief needs to be a very strong damage melee class, getting to melee range is full of danger, doing more damage than ranged is a must.
The initiative system is silly, and makes the rogue too strong, then too weak. The rifle case is a wierd one too, 2 attacks on it hit super hard and the rest are super weak and all have cds.
Arena.net is not going to fix either. They are trying to balance pve/spvp, then finally wvw. A small company overloaded with committees, and frozen with indecision, problems fester for months with no communication or patches.
We will all be getting insta gibbed by stealthers with full initiaitve, and dodging 12k kill shots for another year.
You barely see it coming, if you don’t dodge (probably by luck, because you have like from 0.2sec to none reaction time when you realize he’s casting C&D) you will be stunned and as swinsk poited out extra immobilize can be used too and you are dead within few seconds (If you are built full toughness). Only teleports and invulnerabilty can save you. (Things that not all classes have easy access to)
It’s not just about the damage mats. You should consider a lot more than that.
It’s pretty easy to see coming.
- - The thief will be staying around 900 range with Shortbow using little to no initiative – Since this burst combo requires you to be above 6 initiative to get the 10% damage boost (Necessary to actually put out decent damage with the attacks)
- - The thief will use a 1 second cast to get Basalisk Venom up
- - The thief will swap to daggers, whilst still at 900 range.
- - The thief will start casting an obvious CnD animation, at 900 range.
If you dodge when you see that CnD animation, well there goes his 45 second CD BV, ~45 second Steal, his 45 second CD Signet.
If you don’t dodge, then you use a stun breaker (If you’re not running one in PvP/WvW you deserve to be killed during a stun) you can Dodge/Block/Blind the Backstab or force a face stab (Drastically reduced damage and 4 seconds of revealed)
After avoiding this, the thief has very little to escape, he can’t swap weapons (Still on CD since to get this combo off you start by plinking auto-attacks at people with the SB) he has little in the way of utilities (If going for the full burst I showed, then he’d have none, if running with defensive utilities the damage would be lower but still have limited escapes) and if he does escape he becomes a non-threat for 45 seconds due to having no defence outside of killing someone in the burst combo.
A warrior, can be stood at 1500 range, hidden on cliffs/wall or even just down the road (Not everyone looks that far around them on all sides when capping objectives) he can be in the middle of a group/zerg (Because his burst is actually usable in group scenarios since he doesn’t have to run through AoE that is usually found in group engagements) he can Frenzy his combo out reducing the time it takes to complete, in a 1v1 engagement he can fight at 1200 range (Ranged cripple, perma swiftness, knock back, other weapon sets with a 5 second weapon swap cooldown) and force out 2 dodges to make people sitting ducks for the KS > Volley (The KS is very likely to insta-down someone anyway)
I know how easy it can be to counter the Thief burst combo (I’ve done it myself plenty of times and also had it countered numerous times while running the combo) and I also know how easy it can be to get off the warriors KS (I’ve done it myself, I’ve seen other people get it off plenty of times)
As it is, the thief gives up a lot of his (Very limited) defence to try and get this burst which can be easily countered by universal tools such as dodging. Dodging a warriors KS will just put it on cooldown (10 seconds base) leaving him to try again later since all the cooldowns that’s needed to pop, are normally used on CD anyway (Elite Signet + FGJ) unless using Frenzy (Admittedly a 60 second cooldown, but isn’t necessary to put out damage, it’s just used to make it harder to counter the shot)
Rifle warrior is trivial kill, So easy to blow up. I am sure they are terrifying for the bads who stand off 20 paces half asleep shooting each other.
I either move away from or jump hard on rifle warriors. Run away spec and ranged classes are easy to deal with.
If you are under geared and cant blow them up instantly team up and start assisting. Worst case you need to assist on targets so they go down instantly.
no instant attacks don’t telegraph, don;t get me wrong both can hit hard and kill people.
However, the rifle:
- kill shot is 1.75 sec cast time which depletes adren so next attack loses 12% damage bonus and 9% crit
- Volley is a 2.5 second channeled attack
Comparing that to a 20k insta gang bang in pvp is apples and oranges.
The issue in pvp is the thief combo (which would have steal in the mix) can land 20k damage (on a real target not a zero ac dummy) before the victim can react or see the attacker (esp in wvw where you are not looking at just a couple of people for obvious possibilities)
Kill shot has a cast time and obvious animation, and volley is channeled, they are good attacks but you cant unload 3 of them with the victim unable to react.
I play thief/war/guardian war and thief can both do good damage, but its night and day on timing which is what makes people fall down go boom.
Worst case assist on someone, each rogue and easily do 20k on a heavy armour target before they can react.
It will take Arena net atleast another year to figure out how easy this is, so we should be able to mop up the battle field no prob.
Really the only down side is boredom
The devs will start to care when they want to sell their first xpack.
Balance is never perfect, but I am fed up with packs of perma invis thieves gibbing people.
Months go by with nothing. Just way below par effort and quality.
Its a start but so little so late, and shortly after the focus will zoom back to one of the other 3 games they are trying to do at once (the leveling up game, the spvp game, the pve end game + holiday events). The devs are getting pushed by greedy leadership thinking they are taking on Lol and WoW.
Stacking, downed state, no name pvp, water combat being garbage, no instanced pvp with our real toons to break up times when rvr is borked keep people from taking it seriously.
The combat is too dumbed down to try to get a moba feel (10 buttons is too few abilities, and swtor/wows 30+ is too many. There is a sweet spot they missed), but its jsut too much of a feel of playing a half leveled up toon.
The other major issue is devs trying to turn world v world into a week long battleground instead of letting rvr develop.
3 realms help balance out in long run in real rvr, here the second strongest team goes hard after the weaker to get to second place. Throw in all the transfers, and its really degenerated down into something completely different than rvr.
Sadly newer games are likely to repeat the folly of trying to launch 3-4 games at start, and have 2-3 months of content tops as well.
No it will not be fixed with culling.
Once culling gets fixed we will clearly see the other client server issues clearer.
Most likely they are going to need to upgrade the hamsters powering the fuller servers.
Its still a great start to the fixes, too bad it was not months ago before the rest of my guild got bored and left.