Guild Wars 2

ColinJohanson.2394:

Abe Kleine.3568:

Correct me if I’m wrong… But people are saying that you can’t dodge with low level characters anymore. Is this ACTUALLY true?

This is incorrect, you should be able to absolutely dodge at any level. There is a lot of misinformation (and some bugs) going around about systems the game teaches you about, but are totally available from level 1 if you want to go do them. The level many of the things the new level up system tells you about doesn’t mean they are unlocked at that level, it simply exists as a reminder if you haven’t learned it by then. Feel free to dodge away! You can also go do jumping puzzles any time you want for example, the game just gives you a heads up they exist at level 21 if you haven’t found one by then, etc.

We’re also seeing a lot of bugs, and unintended functionality folks are reporting in a number of the threads on the new player experience that don’t align with what we announced the system to be. We’re working on identifying and resolving all of these issues as quickly as possible, some of the absolutely legitimate concerns folks are bringing up (like some of the bigger issues with alts) are not intended and appear to have been flagged incorrectly when they moved between development regions. Fixes incoming soon as we can identify everything.

Please continue to give feedback and suggestions, we very much appreciate it as it’s allowed us to identify a lot of not intended issues, as well as bugs.

Thanks!

Thank you! Would it be possible to start an official feedback thread like after the April Feature Pack?

Moyayuki.3619:

SkylightMoon.2098:

This much gating in the leveling process is awful. I like the old system because of how much freedom I had.

Makes me want to, if I ever make a new alt, level up simply by mapping cultural cities… Oh how fun.

… you mean people don’t do this normally…? >.>

Have you guys sat down to make a new toon yet? I watched a friend of mine do it last night and it literally only took him an hour to get to level 15. Do we know yet exactly what level you can start doing skill challenges and diving goggles? Something to note – we no longer gain skill points every level. I just took a toon from 55-56 and gained 7 SP. I guess I hadn’t gained any for a while previously?

I’m going to make one tonight and see how it goes.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

Mr Snotty Pants.3980:

Shouldn’t there be a warning in the patch notes: if you are doing this arc your progress will be wiped out

If you were on the storyline pre-patch, you’ll still be on it post-patch. (Thought it might not be visible until you reach L70, since it’s in Chapter 7.)

Thank you for that. To clarify, does that mean that only people who were in the midst of that arc can still access it?

As a personal note, I won’t miss this arc at all. I really felt like the NPCs kept coming and going so quickly I could just never bring myself to care about any of them (except Trahearne, whom I hate with a passion. Limey Brit…) The underwater combat in the Apatia arc was just awful.

Are we going to get an official thread for New Player Experience feedback? Not being sarcastic – there are already so many threads it’s hard to decide which one to post in.

I’m curious how much easier it is to get to level 15 now? There’s something about it in the patch notes.

They should be in “Material storage,” right where they always were. You have to withdraw them from a bank or crafting station.

A number of people are reporting this on map chat, but it seems most are just missing where to look…

PookieDaWombat.6209:

EVERYTHING is now going to be a slog fest. i was willing to concede certain things about the trait changes because it made me refocus more on skills and learning those better. Now? Even skills are gated horribly and the changes to the 1-15 areas are laughably sad.

Agreed. The new level gating isn’t going to help much at all.

Some of the unlocks got changed in this patch. Small steps! Fewer personal story unlocks.

Only downside is Source of Orr is still a Grandmaster unlock, and now it’s a REAL slog-fest to get there with no other rewards before it.

Daggos Skelito.2910:

Do people honestly believe tweeking the new trait system would be better then reverting to the old one? You know, the one that was actually enjoyable! Someday someone will give me the true reason this was changed.

No, I do not believe my suggestions are actually better than just reverting.

However I feel we have to meet the Dev team half-way since too much time and effort was put into this change for them to just throw the whole thing out. I’m not a tech person, but I’ve been led to believe that it’s not just as simple as “flip a switch and go backwards”.

Plus the old system wasn’t accomplishing what the designers wanted – using situationally dependent builds and tying in a feeling of progression that the players has requested.

For these reasons I’m almost 100% certain they won’t do a rollback nk matter how much we beg.

I also ran this on Ranger. What people are saying above is really true – positioning is your best friend. Jump to avoid the ground stomp, trait for longbow (the extra range and reduced cool down help a lot) and bring a brown bear. Yes, I’m telling you to bearbow this situation because it works. The extra range will keep you out of aggro from at least one tendril so you can avoid their attacks, the bear can draw aggro and has great survivability, and can remove the poison if need be. Bring either a second bear or a ranged pet for the swap and be sure to swap before the pet runs out of health.

Lonami.2987:

I’ve been working on some ideas to revamp the trait system. I’ve made a lot of tables and it’s quite a long text. You can find the whole article here:

* > > > > Trait system revamp theorycrafting < < < < *

A short summary: (With links to the tables of the article)

• Trait tiers unlocked at levels 10, 35 and 60. 2 points at level 10, 1 point each 5 levels from 10 to 80, except levels 35 and 60. This let us introduce traits as a reward much more earlier. Visual explanation here.
• Trait unlocking focuses on dynamic events now. No WvW, no map completion, no Personal Story, no dungeons, and a minimum of jumping puzzles. The chosen dynamic events are part of long event chains, so that players can join easily at any moment and then help others complete the chain. It encourages participating in events, too, one of the game’s core aspects.
• Trait unlocks don’t focus on specific dynamic events. Instead, they focus on a pool of 5 events. Completing any of them lets you choose between 5 traits of the same number. The rewards are daily, too, so if you repeat the same event the next day you get to choose another trait. You can get all the traits without needing to go out of your way. Trait acquisition is distributed so that you can get all the traits by following the zones involved in your Personal Story. Trait distribution across zones here and specific chosen dynamic events here.
• Trait guide coin and skill point prices switched. Skill points are far too valuable for new players, more than gold I would say. The coin price could be too expensive now, but I don’t think it would be too much of a problem, since with this system traits are much more accessible, and any player leveling the normal way will get them as he progresses. A higher gold price encourages playing the content, too. Also added a new Badges of Honor alternative. New prices here.

I think these ideas improve the current system without adding radical changes to them. They keep the horizontal progression feeling of the system, removing the hassles and encouraging players to do dynamic events, which sometimes are left second to Renown Hearts.

They aren’t dependent on each other, so feel free to like on of the sections and dislike the others. Would love to see other players’ suggestions and criticism for this, too.

Great eye for events!

I have a few suggestions.

First, the selected events may be too specific. Long chain events particularly take too much time and the reset timers for the events is frequently too long or difficult to track – it’s my single biggest gripe with Lord Ignius. What are your thoughts?

Second, the idea of completing sets of events to choose trait unlocks for is great, but having all five of the starting world bosses may be too restrictive because of their strict schedules.

Third, I feel the costs for traits needs to be adjusted downward in all respects. Adept traits should certainly not cost 50 silver – heck I won’t even pay that for a rare item. 1 silver is more fair in my mind.

Fourth, and I know my own list is guilty of this, I think traits should require less group content, not more. Traits are personal, one should not need to rely on a group to get them. I suggested champ mobs as a quick hotfix for the immediate problem, but once you hit the mid-range levels it’s hard to get groups together to do some of those.

If the entire system gets a revamp, I would love to see a more general “trait pool” developed and have every one of your suggested events be in that pool. Fantastic work pulling events.

Stephane Lo Presti.7258:

Hi Maxwell,

The big issue for us to add Season 1 to the Story Journal is that Season 1 was not built the same way that Season 2 was. I can’t really share details but this means that we can’t simply retrofit the story steps into the Story Journal and we’re going to need to rework Season 1 into a format that fits the Story Journal. As we’ve said, we really want all players to be able to experience as much of the Living World as possible at one point, but I don’t have more details to give you, including a possible timeline.

Thanks for sharing your perspective!

Wow, thank you for this honest and detailed answer!

Skip ascendeds. Ascended gear is only really required for running high level Fractals. The trinkets can be a nice boost and are available for badges, laurels, and guild commendations (I used a combination of all three for my two favorite characters) so you don’t have to dig too deep into your pockets.

I have some ascended weapons, but the difference is negligible. Building them took me literally hundreds of gold and months of playtime. You’re much better off changing your stat block entirely than by upgrading your equipment from exotics if you want different results. Try either Knight’s or Soldier’s stat armor for survivability or Berserker’s or Assassin’s stats for more DPS.

After April it was pretty clear “features” are not content like dungeons, races, maps, skills, weapons, etc.

All I was hoping for was a revamp to the trait system. But what we are getting looks nifty!

TheBlackLeech.9360:

tofumon.5924:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Jagdfygar.1394:

I didn’t play before that patch. Many players in this thread didn’t play before that patch. There have been 2 sales since then, and a lot of new players leveling for the first time. Your theory is unfounded.

You are telling me that, you are complaining that something was changed, and you would rather have it be the way it used to be…. when you had no idea how boring and dull it was before? Usually people make a choice after they have experienced both options. Sounds like you have a typical case of “the grass always being greener,” imho.

Old players want the old system back . New players want the old system back. Pretty good hint that nobody likes this new system.

The thing is….. if the whole notion of “the old system” didn’t exist….. nobody would even be complaining.

Imagine…..
Filling your car at the station was completely free for the longest time….
Then someone comes along and says….
From this moment onward, you need to pay for your gasoline.
Imagine the uproar.

back to reality…. if you did the same thing…. asked the same question in the world today….. nobody would be complaining about having to pay, since it has always been this way… and nobody knows what it is like to get free gas. Of course everyone is going to want to get it for free….. but they aren’t going to think that paying for it is so absolutely horrible that they need to complain about it (and sure people will complain about the price…. but they never knew a world where it would be free…. so the notion of paying is already normal)

Same exact thing here.

The only reason anyone is complaining about this is the notion that it used to be given away before.

No. The reason I am complaining is because the game creates false expectations about what your options are through the implementation of this system. It does not accomplish its stated design goals.

At level 30 (36 really) you “get access” to 30 traits. All of them are locked. No problem. The problem is when you go to unlock those traits, you suddenly find that 25 of them are in areas and/or related to tasks that are 20-30 levels above your current level. In practice, you have access to about 5 of the 30 things that the game tells you you should have access to.

The dev goal was stated that this system should help you feel a sense of progression, as stated in the CDI that is credited as the basis for this decision. By giving the Adept traits unlocks in the level 30-60 bracket, the dev team wanted characters to be rewarded for playing through those levels and exploring content of an appropriate strength.

The problem is that by unlocking access to all the Adept traits at level 30, it tells me as a player that I should have a reasonable expectation of having any of those 30 traits in any order I so choose. I find that I can’t because of level gating, or find that it’s behind some of the most tedious content that I don’t enjoy doing, and so I just can’t get the traits.

There is also no rhyme or reason to the level-gating for any given trait. Trait I is not the easiest to get, progressing through Trait VI. Also, Trait I is not always less useful than Trait VI. You can’t create a sense of “meaningful progression” when there’s not actually progression within the tiers. It’s just random.

Yes, I can buy them, but on a new character I don’t have the skill points to buy all the traits I want because I’m still buying my skills. You know, the things skill points were intended for.

Wow, this is great! Obviously most of their work for this feature patch has been dedicated to the Trading Post re-build. It would have been nice if they had lead with this announcement though…

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Guhracie.3419:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

In my opinion, this is an excellent idea, and I stand behind it 100%.

This game, in my honest opinion, was an unfinished project at launch…. and many aspects of the game could have used some polishing.

Adding more depth to character development is a definite must, and the only reason players are opposing it is the fact that they have played the game since before the patch.

If this trait system was in place since launch (which it should have been) then players would not have been spoiled to have all traits available at their disposal without earning them.

Players who leveled 9 toons to 80 without having to actually earn any traits, upon leveling up toon number 10 have to jump through all these hoops… and are completely put off by the idea.

…and rightfully so….. I mean who wants to pay for something they have been getting for free this whole time?

But look at it this way.

This should have been in the game since launch.
You were supposed to jump through all these hoops on every single one of your toons…. but you got a free pass for 9 of them.

I’d say you were pretty privileged.

I can assure you that I’d never have purchased this game if the current trait system had been in place at launch. I certainly wouldn’t have purchased a second account, or additional character slots. … Especially not the same, tired hoops on all 12 of my level 80’s.

The reason why Anet is doing this is because players are amassing several fully leveled, complete lvl 80 characters, which can be created, fully leveled and fully geared in two minutes. (through the use of tomes and gold)
I, like you, have many fully leveled and geared toons (10)…. and the two most recent toons I created were both level 80 on the first day of creation. No depth whatsoever. They made it as far as Lion’s Arch…. and I think one of those two toons had something like 2% map completion wearing full exotic and ascended gear.

Fun stuff.

Or we could assume they’re not lying to our faces about their reasons, which are to improve clarity with how the system works and create a feeling of horizontal progression (both of which are stated in this thread).

Whether this was accomplished or not is up to debate, but the reasons have been pretty clear.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

In my opinion, this is an excellent idea, and I stand behind it 100%.

This game, in my honest opinion, was an unfinished project at launch…. and many aspects of the game could have used some polishing.

Adding more depth to character development is a definite must, and the only reason players are opposing it is the fact that they have played the game since before the patch.

If this trait system was in place since launch (which it should have been) then players would not have been spoiled to have all traits available at their disposal without earning them.

Players who leveled 9 toons to 80 without having to actually earn any traits, upon leveling up toon number 10 have to jump through all these hoops… and are completely put off by the idea.

…and rightfully so….. I mean who wants to pay for something they have been getting for free this whole time?

But look at it this way.

This should have been in the game since launch.
You were supposed to jump through all these hoops on every single one of your toons…. but you got a free pass for 9 of them.

I’d say you were pretty privileged.

In guild wars 1, players had to go out and explore the world, finding skill vendors, capturing elite skills from dead enemies, etc.

I believe this new trait system holds true to the Guild Wars feel of the game, and if anything, I oppose the fact that you can simply purchase traits with gold…. but I will stand by that also.

If players were not allowed to purchase traits after being handed them for free….. and actually had to go out and WORK for them instead of paying for them, there would have been even more gripe…. but I hope that the ability to purchase traits is eventually removed from the game also.

(Almost like weaning a newborn off the bottle)

Anyway…. that’s my opinion on all of this. Thanks for reading.

Having work for the traits isn’t the issue. There are three pressing concerns.

1. Cost vs. reward is completely unequal.

Take for example running map complete in Lornar’s Pass. I’ve already done it twice, I really have no interest in doing it a third time when 1. my toon is already level 80 because of all the other stuff I had to do to track down the other traits so I don’t really get anything except the trait and some more skill points and 2. the trait probably isn’t going to influence my build in any way.

2. The stated goal of the trait change was to get players (mostly new ones) more comfortable with how traits worked by gating them and then allowing them to change their builds on the fly.

The extreme amount of time required to actually get most, if not all, the traits far outweighs the time it takes to level to 80, even going at a newbie’s pace. You don’t get to learn how to play until the endgame, which, to my knowledge, was the exact opposite of how the designers wanted GW2 to work.

3. Many professions (Engi and Mesmer have been brought up in this thread) were created from launch to need traits to really let them shine and for a player to understand how they fully function.

Traits are a required facet of their core functionality and without them, players are NOT able to learn how their professions function until they reach level 80 and pick a build. This was not adjusted when trait unlocking was established.

I don’t disagree with you that some effort (and in turn a little direction) is nice when you make an alt. It gives you a chance to “play” that character. However, the implementation is awful. You reach level 30, 60, or 80, and oftentimes find that, although you have access to equipping traits of those levels, you have no traits to equip and won’t for another 10-15 levels. That needs to be changed, and it needs to be changed pronto.

Yay! It would be lovely to change clothes with the press of a button.

RyuDragnier.9476:

My god this is brilliant and works. Some numbers may need tweeking, but by the Khan-Ur I love the way this is done.

The numbers are just rough estimates. I like multiples of threes and fives.

Eric.6109:

Give that guy a cookie. This will be a great fix for this fiasco.

I like cookies too Plx to haz cooky plx?

SirMoogie.9263:

felessan.9587:

As discussed, rewards are the driving factor in replayability.

I’ve played many multipayer games over and over again without being doled out trinkets or rewards. I’ve replayed several RPGs multiple times through without the incentive of reward. I agree most people replaying GW 2 are doing so because of rewards, but that’s because that’s all it offers in PVE. If the activities were fun and engaging then rewards should only be there to supplement, not be the reason for playing. If Arena Net has to keep people doing activities with loot it suggests to me the activities really aren’t that fun, challenging, or engaging. It is no longer a virtual world they are offering, but a slot machine that gives you useless virtual goods.

I too have played multiple RPGs through multiple times, but each time I come back I play for “total completion” or getting gear drops. I know I’m not alone in that.

Really, the story in GW2 and our interactions with it are pretty anemic and generic. You’re right, the events aren’t that engaging. In an effort to revitalize the game world, the events would either need to be completely and totally reworked, or they need to make it that virtual slot machine, because shiny things do keep people playing. I personally would feel more compelled to play and not lurk on the forums if I could get cool skins.

Jagdfygar.1394:

2) Keep giving feedback and be patient as this is a big ship and it takes time to steer it.

Sure!

- Trait tier level increase: As has been noted, traits unlock at the same time as elite skills. A level between utility unlocks would be better for the stated purpose.

- Unlocking traits: With this system, I was definitely not “learning about traits, how they worked, or understanding the options.” Perhaps it was envisioned that players would gradually and organically unlock traits. However, the requirements make that impossible. Here is how it actually worked:

1) Unlock traits, put one point in the first line because Power increases damage
2) Unlock major traits, find out I don’t have any in the Power line. Look at the ones I do have, shrug, put another point in Power
3) Look at trait unlocks ingame, get pointed by the telescope to places on the map I haven’t uncovered which are surrounded by places I also haven’t uncovered. Check wiki, find out I can’t do any of them.
4) After leveling up a bunch and unlocking Master tier, start unlocking Adept traits.
5) Realize unlocking all skills would take forever, use the internet to find out which are the best for my class so I can prioritize those.
6) Get most of the good ones, decide to ignore the rest until 80.
7) Get to 80 and still only have a handful unlocked. Start unlocking the rest willy-nilly.
8) Buy the last few once I can afford it, which is a long time thanks to the skill point cost

The key part is that I unlocked the vast majority of traits once I was level 80, once they no longer had meaning. I didn’t even look at what they did when I unlocked them. It was just a checklist. Adept, Master, and Grandmaster were all jumbled together, because at 80 they’re all equally easy to unlock. The different lines were all jumbles as well. The only ones to which I paid close attention were the ones the internet told me was good. I still don’t know what line most of my traits are in or what most of them do. It’s just a mass of “Inflict some condition or gain some boon sometimes for some reason.”

At the end of the day this system has helped spread out the teaching of the system and the feeling of accomplishment through acquisition . . .

No. It hasn’t. What I learned came from outside the game and a little PvP experimentation, and I did not feel any sense of accomplishment. The game might as well have told me to collect 65 wolf paws.

I understand my utility skills better, because as I leveled up I could just look at them, guess which was good, spend skill points I got from leveling, and try them. If traits simply unlocked at level 15 and gave me one trait per level it would work much better for the stated purposes than the current system, which makes trait unlocking a level 80 grind.

It’s true this system isn’t overwhelming for new players. It’s underwhelming. It presents itself in a way that makes me not care about the individual traits and resent the system as a whole. It made leveling past 30 an unpleasant experience when I tried to play in the way the system encouraged, such as completing Lornar’s Pass and waiting around for events. I had a much better time when I was ignoring it. It was an obstacle to having fun. The trait system is the worst character progression system I can remember in any video game I’ve ever played, and I played “The Last Remnant.”

This. All of this. This system doesn’t help players learn to build, it helps them learn to Google “good GW2 [profession name] build” and follow it exactly. It’s not fun; it’s the opposite of fun. A “fun-gate” if you will.

nexxe.7081:

felessan.9587:

I believe this may be more in line with what players were hoping for. Also note, many of the tasks are BELOW the level where you will unlock a trait tier – this is intentional. I believe you will see better results if people can have immediate access to the content and use that to fuel growth, rather than being gated by their level for content they should have access to already.

Notice that most of these tasks are vague and open-ended, designed to compliment a “play as you want” style. Traits are gained in progression without having to force too much checklist style exploration. If a trait is not listed here, it’s because I personally consider it to be at least feasible. Others should comment as necessary.

Suggestions for new trait unlocks:

1-I: Obsidian Sanctum. Complete three jumping puzzles. Any puzzles.

1-II: Inferno’s Needle. Help the Charr fight the flame legion! Complete 10 Flame Legion-themed hearts

1-III: 100% Gendarran Field. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Kryta

1-V: 100% Blazeridge Steppes. Defeat a Champion creature in Brisban Wildlands

1-VII: Ogre Camp. Locate 10 “camp” POIs

1-VIII: Citadel of Flame Defeat a Champion creature in Fireheart Rise

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 2)
2-II: Twilight Arbor. Help the Sylvari fight the Nightmare Court! Complete 10 Nightmare Court-themed renown hearts.

2-VI: Lornar’s Pass. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

2-VII: Hylek Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Sparkfly Fen

2-X: Personal Story Forging the Pact. Complete one group event in five of the following: Sparkfly, Maelstrom, Timberline, Frostgorge, Iron Marches, Fireheart

2-XI: Crucible of Eternity. Secure Infinity Coil

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 3)
3-II: Battle for Claw Island. Complete level 28 personal story (racial arc)

3-III: Stonegaze Spire. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

3-VI: Victurus the Shattered. Locate 10 “ruins” POIs

3-V: 100% Fields of Ruin. Defeat a Champion creature in the Fields of Ruin

3-VI: Giant Blood Ooze. Help the Norn fight the Sons of Svanir! Complete 10 Sons of Svanir-themed renown hearts.

3-VII: Dredge Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Bloodtide Coast

3-VIII: Sorrow’s Embrace. Defeat a Champion creature in Timberline Falls

3-X: Battle for Fort Trinity. Locate Vizier’s Tower

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 4)
4-I: Light in the Darkness. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

4-II: Tytone Perch. Find Beaker

4-IV: 100% Harathi Hinterlands. Help the humans fight centaurs! Complete 10 centaur-themed renown hearts

4-VI: Krait Witch in Timberline Falls. Complete five “commune” challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

4-VIII: Chest in Arundon Vale. Locate Diedre’s Garden

4-X: Source of Orr. Chest in Arundon Vale

4-XI: Honor of the Waves. Defeat one of the Dragon Champion world bosses (Teq, Shatterer, Jormag)

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 5)
5-I: Caudecus’s Manor. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in Kryta

5-III: Retribution. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Ascalon

5-VI: 100% Dredgehaunt Cliffs. Help the Asura! Complete 10 Inquest-themed renown hearts

5-V: Champ Ice Wurm. Defeat a Champion creature in Lornar’s Pass

5-VI: Lord Ignius the Eternal. Defeat a Champion creature in Snowden Drifts

5-VIII: Infinity Coil Commander. Defeat a Champion creature in Mount Maelstrom

5-IX: Admiral Taidha Covington. Defeat any of the 50-70 world bosses.

5-XI: Overgrown Grub. Complete 10 “combat” skill challenges in Orr

5-XII: Ruined City of Arah. Complete 10 “commune” skill challenges in Orr

Something like this would be so much better. I don’t like the zone themes though. It’s still requiring new players to go out of their way.

It was just an idea to stick to the idea of encouraging exploration while staying level-appropriate. I think it also helps with the leveling problem, since discovering new areas/WPs is a major source of exp, but doesn’t require grinding or jumping through the same extremely specific hoops over and over again. It’s sorta meeting the dev team half way!

I’m reminded again that communication is a two-way street. The post-April feedback threads have taken yet another step to prove that while we’re talking, at great length, no one is listening on the other side.

TLDR;
We added this system as a direct result from the horizontal progression CDI. We are always reading your feedback, however, we don’t always have time to respond right away or action it quickly. We updated some trait unlocks in the past but we can do more. How can you help?
1) Give us a list of the most offensive trait unlock locations.
2) Keep giving feedback and be patient as this is a big ship and it takes time to steer it.

This request is outrageous because I personally have done exactly this more than once, in exactly this thread. Other players have done this more than once. We have told you myriad ways to fix these problems.

I understand that there are 42 pages of comments at this point and that is a lot of noise to sift through, but that is because no one responded for over four months. It’s understandable that replies and actions aren’t immediate, but four months later all there is is a response that basically reads as “I’ve been paying attention, I swear, but can you repeat that with succinct and explicit bullet points?” That is completely unacceptable.

A signal that these complaints are being taken seriously needs to be given in a timely fashion. If the response is, “too much white noise, please clarify,” that at least sends a signal to us on what we can do to help the dev team in our feedback. We need that and then we need to see a little faster turn around time, especially since this is a thread that ArenaNet opened, for the express purpose of gathering our responses. It feels like a huge bait-and-switch and is honestly offensive.

Downed state is confusing. There’s hardly enough time to hover over the icon, read the text, process it, and get your other skills off cooldown. Add to that they never explain the nuances of how the skills work or what you actually need to do to survive and it’s confusing. Mashing buttons doesn’t help you learn cause and effect when you don’t understand the basics of the game yet.

And no, beyond, “FIGHT TO SURVIVE!!!” it doesn’t actually tell you that you need to kill a mob to get back up. I spent the first several times I went down jamming 1 and not understanding why my health wasn’t going back up. I was fighting, why wasn’t I surviving?

Problem: trait system is not satisfying because it is a checklist and not a true progression.

Solution (long-term): Move to a completely point-based system. In my eyes, the trait system can be fixed by making all the tasks less trait-specific and tied to activities that people actually do on a regular basis: discovering new or hidden locales, completing personal story, completing maps, killing bosses, running explorable dungeons, killing each other in the Mists; all of these things should reward trait unlock points. If there’s an achievement for it, it should also have some kind of trait reward for it.

The other thing that would be highly rewarding for players is to have different unlocks for each trait or trait line based on profession. Let Elementalists unlock all of the Arcane Adept traits by communing with 30 locations; Arcane Master traits could be from 60 locations. Something like that.

Second alternate:
Make trait unlocks account-bound. Still consider changing the tasks.

Alternate suggestion for fix:
Make a second set of points, called “Major Trait Points” or something and award them for completing tasks on this list; 1 point for Adept tasks, 2 points of Master tasks, and 3 points for Grandmaster tasks. Each Major Trait ability can then be purchased with these points; 1 point for Adepts, 2 for Masters, and 3 for Grandmasters. This makes completing your personal story directly rewarding in a way that you need it to be, rather than praying that you need something off that list. Also, make completion of the personal story worth 4 points.

WvW players can be included in this by earning 1 point for camp/reactor caps, 2 for towers, 3 for keeps, and 4 for Stonesmist (I haven’t checked the math to see if this works out or not, but you get the idea). You would get the points the first time each character caps a location.

ALLOW THESE POINTS TO BE REFUNDABLE. If you decide you don’t like the traits you’ve currently purchased, you can refund all or some FOR NO COST and avoid buyer’s remorse and then try something else. THIS is what tinkering with builds requires.

I believe this may be more in line with what players were hoping for. Also note, many of the tasks are BELOW the level where you will unlock a trait tier – this is intentional. I believe you will see better results if people can have immediate access to the content and use that to fuel growth, rather than being gated by their level for content they should have access to already.

Notice that most of these tasks are vague and open-ended, designed to compliment a “play as you want” style. Traits are gained in progression without having to force too much checklist style exploration. If a trait is not listed here, it’s because I personally consider it to be at least feasible. Others should comment as necessary.

Suggestions for new trait unlocks:

1-I: Obsidian Sanctum. Complete three jumping puzzles. Any puzzles.

1-II: Inferno’s Needle. Help the Charr fight the flame legion! Complete 10 Flame Legion-themed hearts

1-III: 100% Gendarran Field. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Kryta

1-V: 100% Blazeridge Steppes. Defeat a Champion creature in Brisban Wildlands

1-VII: Ogre Camp. Locate 10 “camp” POIs

1-VIII: Citadel of Flame Defeat a Champion creature in Fireheart Rise

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 2)
2-II: Twilight Arbor. Help the Sylvari fight the Nightmare Court! Complete 10 Nightmare Court-themed renown hearts.

2-VI: Lornar’s Pass. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

2-VII: Hylek Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Sparkfly Fen

2-X: Personal Story Forging the Pact. Complete one group event in five of the following: Sparkfly, Maelstrom, Timberline, Frostgorge, Iron Marches, Fireheart

2-XI: Crucible of Eternity. Secure Infinity Coil

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 3)
3-II: Battle for Claw Island. Complete level 28 personal story (racial arc)

3-III: Stonegaze Spire. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

3-VI: Victurus the Shattered. Locate 10 “ruins” POIs

3-V: 100% Fields of Ruin. Defeat a Champion creature in the Fields of Ruin

3-VI: Giant Blood Ooze. Help the Norn fight the Sons of Svanir! Complete 10 Sons of Svanir-themed renown hearts.

3-VII: Dredge Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Bloodtide Coast

3-VIII: Sorrow’s Embrace. Defeat a Champion creature in Timberline Falls

3-X: Battle for Fort Trinity. Locate Vizier’s Tower

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 4)
4-I: Light in the Darkness. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

4-II: Tytone Perch. Find Beaker

4-IV: 100% Harathi Hinterlands. Help the humans fight centaurs! Complete 10 centaur-themed renown hearts

4-VI: Krait Witch in Timberline Falls. Complete five “commune” challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

4-VIII: Chest in Arundon Vale. Locate Diedre’s Garden

4-X: Source of Orr. Chest in Arundon Vale

4-XI: Honor of the Waves. Defeat one of the Dragon Champion world bosses (Teq, Shatterer, Jormag)

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 5)
5-I: Caudecus’s Manor. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in Kryta

5-III: Retribution. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Ascalon

5-VI: 100% Dredgehaunt Cliffs. Help the Asura! Complete 10 Inquest-themed renown hearts

5-V: Champ Ice Wurm. Defeat a Champion creature in Lornar’s Pass

5-VI: Lord Ignius the Eternal. Defeat a Champion creature in Snowden Drifts

5-VIII: Infinity Coil Commander. Defeat a Champion creature in Mount Maelstrom

5-IX: Admiral Taidha Covington. Defeat any of the 50-70 world bosses.

5-XI: Overgrown Grub. Complete 10 “combat” skill challenges in Orr

5-XII: Ruined City of Arah. Complete 10 “commune” skill challenges in Orr

JonPeters.5630:

Lazuli.2098:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

JonPeters.5630:

Thanks. I’ll pass this on.

So, this is how it works? Cherry pick ONE PERSON’s “list of things I don’t like”, while ignoring 40 pages of really good feedback and ideas? OK. I’m done with this thread.

From this response from JonPeters and his initial post it is obvious that Anet is not going to fix their new leveling process or trait system except the individual tasks themselves.

I’m discouraged since I used to like leveling new alts but can live with just playing my level 80s instead.

To be clear we are looking at the system as a whole but recognize that changing that will take longer than is satisfying and are looking for ways to improve the current system until a time at which we can make a better overall system from the ground up. Specific suggestions on what traits are poorly placed are helpful for #1, specific suggestions on #2 are also welcome but are going to be read but not responded too right now.

Thank you, that is nice to hear.

Please be more honest and straight-forward like this in the future.

As an addendum, I have to say it is deplorable the way that Anet has ignored this thread. I had hoped that after the most egregious problems with the trait unlocks were fixed that there was a glimmer of hope that we were being heard and solutions were silently being implemented in the background.

Unfortunately, it seems that this thread was completely ignored since May. Why would you need to ask about the most obvious points, that have been raised again and again, unless you had just completely tuned it out? You wouldn’t.

It appears that after the initial fixes, the development team gave themselves a pat on the back and walked away from the fire that is now burning out of control. Players are wildly dissatisfied (even those who had no experience from before the April patch) and nothing is being done about it.

This behavior is unconscionable.

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 5)
5-I: Caudecus’s Manor. Dungeon group problem.

5-III: Retribution. Generic Personal Story Problem.

5-VI: 100% Dredgehaunt Cliffs. Generic Map Complete Problem.

5-V: Champ Ice Wurm. Not out of place, but many people even now seem to have never heard of this event and are unwilling to help…

5-VI: Lord Ignius the Eternal. Event chain is long and hard to follow and has a number of places it stalls out and bugs.

5-VIII: Infinity Coil Commander. Too high level.

5-IX: Admiral Taidha Covington. Spawn timer is too specific.

5-XI: Overgrown Grub. Generic WvW problem, plus this is universally hated by everyone who comments on the forums.

5-XII: Ruined City of Arah. Dungeon group problem.

5-XIII: Temple of Lyssa. Reset timer too long.

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 4)
4-I: Light in the Darkness. Generic Personal Story Problem.

4-II: Tytone Perch. Generic WvW Problem.

4-IV: 100% Harathi Hinterlands. Generic Map Complete Problem.

4-VI: Krait Witch in Timberline Falls. Level too high.

4-VIII: Chest in Arundon Vale. Levevl is on the high end of possible for the tier.

4-X: Source of Orr. Generic Personal Story Problem.

4-XI: Honor of the Waves. Dungeon group problem.

4-XII: Temple of Dwayna. Long spawn timer.

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 3)
3-II: Battle for Claw Island. Generic Personal Story Problem. Far, far too late to start awarding traits through the personal story. These should begin at level 30 when the character finishes his or her racial story and begins the Order Arc.

3-III: Stonegaze Spire. Generic WvW problem.

3-VI: Victurus the Shattered. Level too high.

3-V: 100% Fields of Ruin. Generic Map Complete Problem.

3-VI: Giant Blood Ooze. Level too high.

3-VII: Dredge Camp. Generic WvW problem.

3-VIII: Sorrow’s Embrace. Dungeon group problem.

3-X: Battle for Fort Trinity. Generic Personal Story Problem.

3-XII: Temple of Melandru. Reset timer is too long and hard to predict. Also, rewards for capture significantly outweigh rewards for defense.

3-XIII: Karka Queen. Infrequent spawn timer dictates scheduling the event into your day, rather than the other way around.

2-II: Twilight Arbor. Dungeon group problem

2-VI: Lornar’s Pass. Generic Map Complete Problem.

2-VII: Hylek Camp. Generic WvW Problem

2-X: Personal Story Forging the Pact. Good task, but far too deep in the personal story. If one does not want any of the traits before this point, it’s a serioud grind to get here. As mentioned elsewhere, the personal story is not rewarding enough in most cases. Call this “Generic Personal Story Problem”.

2-XI: Crucible of Eternity. Dungeon group problem

2-XIII: Temple of Grenth. Reset timer is too long and hard to predict. Great event otherwise.

Problem: the vast majority of the trait unlocks are tedious and unreasonable. (This was specifically requested, so here we go) I’ll break this into five posts and do each trait line individually.

1-I: Obsidian Sanctum. This is WvW and most of the time your opponents will be fully traited level 80 characters. Let’s call this “Generic WvW Problem.” As this is actually one of the easier traits to get. (no need for groups, combats, or other traits) it’s one I expect level 30-36 toons to run, only to get steamrolled by people camping the puzzle. This is just lambs to the slaughter.

1-II: Inferno’s Needle. Generic WvW Problem

1-III: 100% Gendarran Fields. Map completion is extremely tedious. It’s far, far too much work for little to no reward. Let’s call this “Generic Map Complete Problem.”

1-V: 100% Blazeridge Steppes. Generic Map Complete Problem.

1-VII: Ogre Camp. Generic WvW Problem

1-VIII: Citadel of Flame. People who run dungeons usually expect and demand a fully-traited level 80 character for any mode. People are real kittenhats about dungeons these days.

1-XII: Temple of Balthazar. Event chain is the longest in the game and if it fails, the rebooting process is extremely long. Also, if it succeeds, there’s a three-hour wait for the event to start again, which is impossible to track because of megaserver issues.

1-XIII: Gates of Arah. Long periods between events, coupled with demands for “LET IT FAIL GET MORE BAGS” is a problem.

Problem: Trait unlock at level 30. I understand why this decision was made. At level 30, I’m still unlocking most of my utility and elite skills.

Solution: create an in-game tutorial. Instead of just a little flashing blurb that says ’You’ve unlocked traits!’ actually take the time in-game to explain what traits are and how they work. Also, you should seriously consider giving 2 points at 30, so a player can experiment with selecting a major trait immediately, instead of having to wait 6 levels and forgetting that the option is there at all. Make the tutorial skippable for players who don’t care or already know what to do and repeatable for players who need to see it again

VodCom.6924:

Ohoni.6057:

I don’t like Siege weapons the way Teq does it, where there are six weapons that have a massive impact on the battle. It’s too much responsibility in too few hands on a 150 player event. I suggested this way back when Teq was first overhauled, but I would prefer to have NPCs on the turrets.

Same opinion here.

Ideas for shatterer revamp:
1) Remove mortars. Make sure the large charr turrets can only be manned and repaired by NPCs.

2) The charr turrets should spawn one minute before the start of the shatterer (THEY are the so called “vigil siege weapons”). These turrets remove invulnerability buff (same as tequatl except that players aren’t manning turrets).

3) Have bigger waves of mobs attacking the charr turrets and the NPC that repair them => this forces us to have defence teams.

4) During the current “crital phase”, have cristals heal the shatterer quickly, forcing the players to rapidly destroy them (timer related challenge). Each destroyed cristal gives the remaining ones a 25% damage reduction buff (i.e, you have to kill the cristals at the same time).

5) Add a breath attack to the dragon to eliminate the safe spots.

And that’s it. These 5 changes are enough to make this dragon more interesting. You teach players to :
- coordinate kills (cristals)
- split up (defending turrets)
- protect and revive key NPCs (defence teams)

I really like this!

Maybe instead of having to coordinate the crystals, mobs could spawn that heal the crystals too, so players have to play tower defense to keep the mobs away from the crystals while they’re destroyed? That way someone who specializes in CC will be helpful in both parts of the field (use Elite mobs but no Champs to minimize farming and problems with Defiance.)

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Colin Johanson: I think that’s a totally fair question, as a veteran user I’d wonder that too – why does making the game better for new users benefit me when I want features that benefit me?

The simple answer is: by ensuring the game foundation is solid for new users, we’ll be in a place after the feature pack where we can do the kind of things that excite both veteran and new users simultaneously, and we’ll be able to retain a much larger percentage of the new or long returning users when they show up. Can’t say anything more than that yet – but that’s the thinking, you don’t need to agree with it, but it’s important to know why the decision was made!

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2etzxq/a_fresh_start_the_new_player_experience_in_guild/ck35jpy?context=3

This kinda makes me think that player retention has actually become a real problem since April. The last public statement we heard was “the game is extremely healthy” and now it’s “we’ll be able to retain a much larger percentage of the new or long returning users when they show up”? Maybe something really expansive is on the horizon (see what I did there?) or maybe GW2 is actually having retention problems.

Either way, they could reassure us a little more by announcing more about endgame features in tandem with new player features.

The two things that make Teq hard are the toughness of the spawns and the fingers that throw extremely powerful AOE poison. Dropping the poison AOE would make an almost perfectly scaled encounter for the Shatterer. Force players to break up by having a group build siege (isn’t that one of the pre events anyway?) and then defend it from moderately strong mobs, while others have to be mobile and deal damage. If the siege isn’t active, then the Shatterer gets a shield that prevents damage. To prevent stacking, throw down crystal prisons in point-blank AOE. Frequently.

Players ideally should be able to drop in, take a quick look around, see what needs to be done, select a position to their liking, and get to it. They shouldn’t need to show up 30 minutes early, taxi in an entire guild to fill the map to capacity, assign roles, and hope AFKers don’t ruin the fight.

Hybrid.7059:

You guys, downed state is overwhelming. It scares new players away. Also, people get lost, they need more directions. This feature pack is absolutely vital and the slow release of announcing these changes (even though all this stuff already came out in China) was totally necessary. Anet pls.

This. So much this. I really hope you weren’t being sarcastic.

This is my first MMO. Every player I’ve brought to the game, myself included, when downed for the first time went “WTF IS THIS?! WHY IS THE WORLD RED AND ON FIRE?!” All the screen says is “Fight to survive!” and your only skills not on cooldown are 1 and 2. So, jam 1 repeatedly, notice your life dropping quite dramatically, flail, die. There’s no explanation about what’s going on, and it’s not clear that “fighting” actually means “kill something else immediately.”

It took me a long time to figure out what my skills were because often I would die before they were off CD and there was just too much going on to hover over the skills and process them. It also doesn’t tell you that you don’t need to jam 4 for it to work, and that doing anything else while waiting for 4 to rally you will end the skill.

Draknar.5748:

As someone who has lurked the forums basically since release I can say that there was definitely a community of players that felt leveling was difficult, a “grind” as they call it and very un-rewarding. While most people feel this wasn’t needed, there are people who will find it useful.

Plenty of new players have come on the forums, or have messaged in /map, about what do to, where to go; that their personal story mission is too high a level for them and they don’t know what to do to level up.

I’ve seen this too, and if you /dared/ to have the audacity to ask that question on /m, people would flame the heck out of you. One of my friends asked about a system on /m and was told, en masse, to go kitten himself because “Google it you stupid noob.” He was level 15 or something, and just about quit the game right there.

Zenty.3596:

Im not really into the idea of having dungeon tokens as the reward for hearths/events, I think it should have its own unique set of rewards instead of using the dungeon rewards which are suppose to be rewards for doing the dungeon. But that’s just my opinion.

I get exactly what you’re saying here. If we’re dreaming big, I think we should create an entire set of new region-based rewards. Dungeon rewards are just an easy way to tie together leveling-, endgame-, and lore-based content without having to design an entire new set of rewards.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Honestly I think that getting dungeon tokens for specific areas is a beautiful idea. Obviously they have to be realistic in quantity (an hour in a low level zone should not reward you with 70 tokens), but even the chance to get tokens for dungeon weapons/armor would certainly make me want to go back to the lower level zones. It would give players something to work toward. You could even have it so that each successful event in the area guarantees one token. That way, you have people have positive reasons to do the events, and to succeed at them.

It also gives new players something exciting in the long-run for working through the game. You may have like 120 Figures of Koda by the time you reach level 80, which is one run short of your first real dungeon armor piece. Instead of grinding through 800,000,000 DEs to get those last 60, just run HotW P1 one time and poof!

Heck, do both token conversion AND unique skins. Extend it to Order gear too – Kryta for Whispers, Shiverpeaks for Priory, and Ascalon for Vigil.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

The intent of the Renown Heart system was originally to help players find event content. They also provide a decent method for us to give the player some context and awareness of what’s going on in the area. There are probably a few issues in that design which we could discuss. We could also let it suffice to say that hearts do not make the best repeatable content the game has to offer.

On the topic of keeping players engaged with open world content, I think this goal may be for more approachable from a different angle. Consider Dry Top, which has no hearts. Players on that map are participating in events all the time, largely on the premise that each event contributes to both map-level and personal-level goals. This gives me the notion that with a little help at the system level, events can and should be the bulk of repeatable open world content in Tyria.

I’d be very interested in hearing your thoughts on that.

As discussed, rewards are the driving factor in replayability.

Dry Top is effective because the map-level goal is “get better loot for cheaper.” The loot is broad enough that a player can decide “my personal loot goal is x” but have that overlap with another player’s goal. Either way, they’re both being driven by loot.

I know we have tons of different currencies, but I wanted to throw my support behind adding another set.

What if events (or final events at the end of an event chain) dropped a region-specific (NOT map-specific, that would be awful) currency, like Geodes? Completing the Renown Hearts could give a slightly larger, but not overwhelmingly-large, cache of this currency and the merchants that are unlocked could cash in the region currency for:

1. Dungeon tokens.

Completing renown hearts in Kryta could reward you with Krytan Coins or something, which can be cashed in for Seals of Beetletun.

Completing events in the level 1-50 Maguuman Jungle zones could drop Nightmare Seeds, and Maelstrom (the only Maguuman area that is 50+ I think?) could drop Beta Capacitrons or something, which could be exchanged for Nightmare Blooms and Data Crystals respectively.

(Because of the substantial rewards from Orr already, perhaps Orr and Arah rewards could be excluded from this.)

OR

2. New region/map-specific skins.

These new currencies would have the added bonus of making Dry Top feel more like the rest of the game.

I think, OP, your big problem is that TTS requires TeamSpeak in order to coordinate. It sounds like you have a few assumptions that could be addressed:

1. TeamSpeak is the chosen tool, it’s not the only possible option. However, there is no in-game option that will give the same results. Map chat isn’t effective and typing while trying to survive The Wurm is completely ridiculous. Anet said they wanted to create an event that would require massive coordination on a scale the game had never seen before. They wanted to teach players how to organize and be effective at large-scale combat. That’s why Wurm and Marionette were both introduced in the same patch. The Wurm is harder because it was permanent content. The only tragic problem was that they didn’t give us an in-game tool to coordinate beyond clumsy map chat.

2. TTS is NOT some kind of for-profit corporation or company. They are NOT reps for TeamSpeak, nor are they attempting to profit in any way. Wanting to protect your personal identity and information on the internet is very laudable, but the fears of escalating to malware sources are coming across as tinfoil-hat-wearing paranoid.

3. TTS is not one guild; it’s 13 or so guilds, brought together under one parent guild. A voice service is the best way to communicate when in-game resources are limited.

For the other issues:

3. While it’s true TTS searches for a basically empty map and then floods it with its members, often leaving full maps completely empty, that is a downside of megaserver technology with no ability to force a separate guild instance. TTS has the interests of its members first and foremost. There are always more than 150 people who want to run the Wurm and the commanders who are available to run are spread across different maps. The members must consolidate in order to get things running smoothly enough to make the kill.

4. TTS is not always successful, especially in the Wurm. A few mistakes can actually ruin the entire event for all 120+ people.

5. If you’re on an NA server, TTS is really easy to get into. The guild exists specifically to tackle events like this (note: the guild was created in response to the Teq revamp, not the other way around).

CyClotroniC.4957:

Maybe we had different experiences, but when I do it (EU server @ day change), there isn’t any organization going on, we just have 4 people badged up, everyone finds their spot and we just do it.

And that right there is the issue at hand. People already know the fight so it requires less communication beforehand, but you are still organized into your specific tasks (zerg, turret, north boat/hills, south boat/hills, ERT?) Try doing it without those “spots” and you’ll see what it means to be unorganized.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Do you guys think that there’s a middle ground between ultra hard and easy?

For example, I think we could clean up some of the issues with the Shatterer and just make it a more engaging experience. So rather than spending the entire fight hiding under his right paw he could, say, turn his head and attack that area? :] It doesn’t have to be hard, just a little more involved.

We tried to put in a few changes here and there when we added the new world boss timers. Reactions varied.

There is definitely a middle ground. Throwing down an AOE to break up the zerg stack or force it to move around would be great, and introducing an active mechanic for players to engage with would help a lot. I would suggest a defensive mechanic to overcome rather than an offensive one to avoid. If you look at events like Claw of Jormag, the constant knockback/fear spam that takes control away from players and forces them to watch their toon get flung all over creation just makes them frustrated. Something like Teq’s scales is a great mechanic, though perhaps a lesser form would keep the difficulty lower.

For those who are saying that Teq is a boring, run-of-the-mill encounter, try to remember that at least two mass guild consortia were established in the wake of that revamp; that suggests it is not actually easy unless you do the one, specific, identified method of running the encounter. Deviation from the norm means complete and total failure for everyone involved. Right now, 100 familiar players will show up to Teq and carry the 20 people who don’t know the fight. I, and everyone I regularly play with, don’t want another event like that.

My husband is having the exact same problem.

Simple reason: Trahearn is a jerk.

Actually I agree it’s probably because the voice actors couldn’t be reached. Seems like a good reason to not include those characters.