Guild Wars 2

shadowpass.4236:

according to the power of math, u will hit about 7.6-8k rapid fires with that build while u have fury up

not bad for a glassy-ish build but with 2.4-5k armor, u won’t do so well if u get ganked or anything by a power build (like a backstab thief or warrior)

Rapid fire damage varies a lot depending on the rune set.

it’s around 15k for scholar at full health
12k for ranger runes
with traveler I am getting 9k… good trade off for one more utility slot.

I came to terms with ranger damage, all i want to do is tag kills lol.

Klonko.8341:

shadowpass.4236:

^ lol that’s what I said.

@Klonko
does ur “personal experience” involve playing as and/or against a mobility built warrior?

yep.

and you clearly underestimate the double jump of S #2

No one does. It’s my bread and butter in terms of disengaging. You have to admit it is harder to use than warrior’s GS.

One thing that irritates me is how WIDE the cleave is on monarch’s leap. Some times I don’t want another Doe trying to kill me, you know?

I know my build best and I am willing to share.
6/2/0/6/0
LB+S/D
Valkyrie/knight trinkets
Beserker Armour
Valkyrie LB
Giver’s S/D
Lightning Reflex
Muddy Terrain
Protect Me
RaO
Traveler 6/6
Fire+air sigil on LB
Malice+hydromancy on S/D
Spiders

Pretty straight forward sniper with survivability. Malicious Training gives spiders kitten immobilize (lel). Eagle eye + Read the Wind for pew pew. Bleeds on crits. Strength of Spirit ( ~150 power). Evasive purity for wiping poison. Survival of the fittest for high fury and condition clear.

Note: 80% condition duration means cripple and poison are on permanently. Bleeds stay at about 4 stacks always (180/s). 24k hp, 2.4k armour, 1500 range, 3 evades.

Mystogan.4157:

Mmmm to far spread haha im focusing on power but the idea is to be ready for all situations. The survivial aspect went well because it gave hp and the grandmaster gives condi remove/ fury i dont like to be weak in one aspect :p

Damage is a multiple of power, precision, ferocity. You should know by now that approx 200 Crit damage at 50% crit chance is 2 times DPS. So having a ton of power is not optimal.

Also, you have to play according to the meta. The chances of running into condition bomb classes is certain, therefore in my build I grab 24k hp so I at least could retreat. I have 2.4k armour to at least survive 2 BS.

Klonko.8341:

shadowpass.4236:

its not faster, gs/s-wh is lower cooldowns, perma swiftness, and just overall more mobility

though we have a heck of a lot more evades, you can’t just say ranger is faster than warrior

If you want to run, GS + S/x outrun anybody. Personnal experience: i play double melee and zerker style.

How can anyone admit to the claim that warrior is slower than ranger?

Dogged March+Cleansing Ire= No CC will stick
GS 3 Evade away 450 range ( affected by swiftness)
GS 5 “good bye, i’ll see you later!”

GS + S/x run-away style is a troll build. You will be smacked upside down if you engage toe-to-toe with any proficient melee class.

Once upon a time, valkyrie/beserker signet GS build was somewhat viable for killing soft targets, now it’s nothing. The introduction of ferocity hurt that build tremendously because that pony relied too much on one trick.

Curunen.8729:

gawker.8340:

The opinion of the new rangers are very valuable because they aren’t made under some delusion that some gurus here have been indoctrinated into.

I wholeheartedly see your point OP. Going from mesmer to Ranger is like going from assault-rifle to literally throwing pitiful rocks. If the class doesn’t make sense almost right away from a veteran player’s perspective, it is a design issue.

I am a long time Ranger player. I felt that the Ranger has been gradually but surely losing ground in competitive pvp and WvW due to OTHER CLASSES getting buffs. Net-net Ranger got shafted every balance update if you look at the big picture. The two builds posted above are great for a Ranger build, but terrible as a build in general compared to what other classes have.

Haha – I don’t know if you’ve played mass effect 3 multiplayer, but I liken going from zerker shatter mesmer to ranger as going from geth infiltrator + claymore (shotgun, death machine) to turian saboteur with an eagle (pets, mediocre sustained damage)!

Sorry, that’s an exaggeration.

Hmm, regarding poison master – I will try that first then. Is it worth using a pet that poisons on F2 skill as well, such as devourers?

No haven’t played, but you get my point.

Poison master is a bad trait. Idk if you are familiar with the term opportunity cost but it is my opinion that EB is much better than the alternatives in WS line. Wiping poison off yourself is better than doing ~150 dmg more on each of your own poison tick. Also, you have numerous poison up-time already and you don’t need poison on pet swap. Finally, you should use poison tactically not spam it which tends to be the case when you are given incentive to increase it’s damage by a small amount.

Tip: you’re not going to maintain gap unless you’re on a terrain they can’t walk to. Shoot until you are satisfied, run immediately in the opposite direction when they charge. Fighting melee is like fighting without using your hands and closing your eyes.

I run maximum CC just to make my opponent not want to bother chasing. (Spider/wolf/MuddyTerrain/crippling talon/malicious training) I also stack 80% condition duration and I can permanently cripple and it only deters some people.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

..you got no clue you said in a different post that you have a zerker sniper build you opions are moot.

I can’t play what I want now?

I’m suddenly faced with facism. omg

I suggested agility training as a default mechanism for pets about 8 months ago. Back then, there were sane people that agreed. Now, there is Zenos Osgorma. It’s not looking good.

The opinion of the new rangers are very valuable because they aren’t made under some delusion that some gurus here have been indoctrinated into.

I wholeheartedly see your point OP. Going from mesmer to Ranger is like going from assault-rifle to literally throwing pitiful rocks. If the class doesn’t make sense almost right away from a veteran player’s perspective, it is a design issue.

I am a long time Ranger player. I felt that the Ranger has been gradually but surely losing ground in competitive pvp and WvW due to OTHER CLASSES getting buffs. Net-net Ranger got shafted every balance update if you look at the big picture. The two builds posted above are great for a Ranger build, but terrible as a build in general compared to what other classes have.

Littlefeather.8623:

I play LB Ranger, and I’m full zerk, the only one’s I have issues with are PVT, the zerk ones die. I pew pew, they get close, I barrage and push back and pew pew some more and they die.

Yea, i’m sure your movement isn’t inherently predictable. I’m almost certain you are made of sturdy stuff that won’t falter at high pressure. Also, you forgot to tell about the glory of your animal companion. The one that clawed and mauled and pursued your victims to the end of the horizon.

Kibazuka.1390:

gawker.8340:

Also, i’m referring to the game content where the majority of the GW2 community participates, WvW.

I think you got that one wrong already

The more you know.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Blind/cripple/chill/immobilize are the counters to any melee class to. and sure as hell condi removal is a counter that too.

if your only reason to come here is to throw Negative junk at peoples faces you got the wrong place go to reddit and cry there.

instead of throwing negative junk, be constructive and go to the suggestions thread and do somthing Constructive..geez

And the condition removal on Ranger is abysmal compared to other classes. Even worse on some builds than others.

trunks.5249:

i am a melee ranger. i don’t know if we are good in zergs in WvW or not. haven’t dabbled in that yet.. but melee rangers are great for roaming and sPvP. if i sucked i wouldn’t be spending 8-10 hours a day pvping i have never really used a bow unless it was for a boss that everyone needs long range. so i cant comment on bows.there are a lot of videos of melee rangers roaming in WvW taking on 1-4 people at a time and doing fantastic. melee ranger is all about evades yes other classes hit harder but that doesn’t matter if they cant hit you takes lots and lots of practice

I’m pretty sure the relevance of those videos have been diminished as time goes by. Idk what obscure footage you’ve seen recently that shows ranger outperforming multiple opponents but I dare say those might be black-swans.

I can’t believe there are rangers that use barrage. It’s a ~4 second self immobilize. And the damage-Oh that glorious damage. It tickles.

I have valkyrie on all trinket except rings which are knights. It comes up to a little over 2400 armour which is only useful against people who like to dabble in physical attack. Otherwise, you will get hit very hard so better dodge.

I find that you need to maintain crit chance to proc fire and air sigil which add roughly 2.2k dmg. It’s easier to do that now with Survival of the fittest so less reliance on beserker gear is needed, means more defense.

OP, you came face-to-face with the reality that LB Ranger suffers from.

Accept that there are many style of builds from other professions that you cannot even inconvenience let alone kill. Even the soldier gear warrior which are primarily turtles will wreck you. It’s just the way it is.

Cavaliers is garabage.

Optimal damage and defense is valkyrie mixed with knights. You should sprinkle beserker in there to maintain at least 30% crit chance.

I mix knight/valkyrie accessories with berserker armour and valkyrie/giver’s weapons. 6/2/0/6/0 LB sniper.

results may vary but I find this is the best sniper build.

love it-love it-love it. Oh your naivety amuses me. Shooting garbage arrows that deal 500-2000 damage into a zerg only to receive retaliation damage that take chunks from your health is not going to help. It’s almost as bad as throwing barrage on enemy zerg. You’ll hemorrhage HP until you are easily spotted and killed immediately.

Pray tell, how is 1 second of chill going to affect anything when you are being beaten down by a damage source usually 1.5-2.0 times higher than you?

I love how unrealistic some people like Durzlla are. It’s fantasy world for him/her if he/she thinks pets are satisfactory in WvW situation. They are bad in PvP situations in general, but they are exceptionally bad in WvW.

This game has been out for so long that most people are good with their main profession now. So I write this with the assumption that the human factor is negligible when comparing the power of different professions in GW2. Also, i’m referring to the game content where the majority of the GW2 community participates, WvW.

Major problems:
1) Extraordinary physical damage cannot be achieved without becoming completely glass. When a Ranger specs for highest possible damage, they are still going to lose to to others that also spec for max damage. They have no damage mitigation, and no escape tool in this build.

2)Every other profession is designed to be hard counter to Ranger. Blind/cripple/chill/immobilize are the conditions that prevent kiting and they exist in abundance. They are easily applied and kept on nearly permanently. Range battles don’t happen unless of terrain limitations because gap closing skills are the length of the bow range. Meaning, the range advantage isn’t significant.

3)Melee Ranger is terrible. Where other classes can hit harder at melee, ranger hits less damage guaranteed.

4)The incentive for ranger is to play a variation of condition bunker. Unfair, since any other class can freely play with any build well.

5)The pet is a failed mechanic. It is not reliable because it’s too random and too distracting. You have to be lucky to have it perform in your favor and this happens rarely. Not only is it a failed mechanic, it is a net deficit to have to use it 100% of the time.

I don’t know what Anet has in mind in terms of changes to Rangers that would make us stronger and/or help bring some interesting dynamic to WvW but I hope it’s soon (like next balance patch).

Right now, Ranger has no role, none, nada, zip. If there was a role it could fill, it would be to man siege because a Ranger on an Arrow cart can still send their pets on single targets which is somewhat OP (sarcasm).

Buff Rangers in a way that make us essential to WvW offense/defense/roaming.

What’s the point of this thread? Discuss suggestions below.

Suggestions:
Give pets the ability to scale walls both up and down (restricted by lease range).
Make pets the most dangerous AI on the battle field (more risk/reward).
Move some objectives into the water where Rangers can win (There’s currently no reason to go in the water to be wtfpwned by a Ranger).
Nerf brain-dead, passive spam-to-win aspect of necros.

I know many strangers on the internet have strange opinions about the state of Rangers in WvW. So I’ll say it right now, if you disagree then lets agree to disagree.

If only you had skills.

You should re-roll warrior. That class carries people with no skills.

Relax my Ranger bros. Even I thought Strider’s Defense is smelly poo-poo, but i gave it some thoughts. I figured the 30/30/0/10/0 full glass valkyrie would be better off with it than MoC. Trust me, it has high potential usefulness for retreating with Broad Sword.

Of course we would lose +50% damage on interrupt because we can’t have 2 nice things. That would be too OP for warriors.

I’m calling it now!

Other four GM traits that Ranger will get is worse than “Read the Wind”

Ranger shoots engineer with fast arrows. Gets killed by reflect.

Ranger can’t shoot thief because you need a target to shoot. Gets killed by cheese.

Ranger shoots warrior with fast arrows. Gets killed faster by warrior.

Ranger shoots necromancer with fast arrows. Does nothing because ultra-tank.

Ranger shoots mesmer with fast arrows. Gets locked down and killed.

Thank you Anet.

Honestly, no one in the CDI suggested “Read The Wind”. I think it was something in the pipeline for Rangers back from 2013 that finally saw the light of day.

Ranger vs Mesmer:
Ranger tries to lay healing spring, mesmer interrupts. heal goes on 60s CD

Necro vs Mesmer:
Necro tries to consume condition, mesmer interrupts. heal goes on 50s CD

Thief vs Mesmer:
Thief tries to hide in shadows, mesmer interrupts. heal goes on 60s CD

Warrior vs Mesmer:
Warrior doesn’t activate healing signet. warrior survives.

I see what you did there Anet.

Allie, i’m so happy. Even if half the things you listed make it into the next balance patch, I will accept it. I really like the damage reduction on pet and active signet effects apply on ranger by default. These two changes alone would be EPIC WIN.

You’re tired but at least you still can kill any other profession with ease.

This thread is 100% useless.

Atherakhia.4086:

Another day without responses…. as if the Ranger community didn’t already feel alienated enough.

Lets have a goal tomorrow guys. No more pet posts until ANet comes back asking for more. We’ve gone in circles enough. Lets cover some new ground!

Silence speaks louder than words. In the case of this particular thread, it got too long to read. I couldn’t be paid enough to muddle through walls of texts written in mostly broken-English. Collaboration should have happened 1 hour over Skype with top member of the ranger community. This 41 page monstrosity here is a rotting and foul mess that is not fit for human consumption.

rpfohr.7048:

gawker.8340:

rpfohr.7048:

Question to Allie,

If Rangers are not suppose to burst,
Then why give them attacks of opportunity and Moment of clarity?

There are thousands of better options than these. Yet we keep buffing these because they don’t have synergy with ranger weapons?

That is bad. I think rangers would be on par and able to take advantage of these if they did have a burst. Read my 2nd proposal on page 20

Yea, give us a bootleg killshot that does as much as maul. Please do it.

All I am saying is that we have all these things like remorseless for that 1 hit crit,
moment of clarity,
attack of opportunity,
Available to quickness (although i guess you could argue this is Burst DOT with auto attack as it does the most damage on most of the ranger weapons)

And we only really have 1 skill (maul) to take advantage, if we had a 2nd it would increase build diversity.

I do like that my ranger can whittle down the opponent, but I have found that other classes have just as much sustain damage as ranger AND they can burst better.

I do not find rangers have a sustain advantage over most classes as allie suggests
Perhaps over some warriors and most guardian but i find it ends there.

Ya i know, i wasn’t being sarcastic. I literally want to bootleg Warrior’s killshot and give it to ranger. It seems so much more appropriate on Ranger.

rpfohr.7048:

Question to Allie,

If Rangers are not suppose to burst,
Then why give them attacks of opportunity and Moment of clarity?

There are thousands of better options than these. Yet we keep buffing these because they don’t have synergy with ranger weapons?

That is bad. I think rangers would be on par and able to take advantage of these if they did have a burst. Read my 2nd proposal on page 20

Yea, give us a bootleg killshot that does as much as maul. Please do it.

WatchTheShow.7203:

gawker.8340:

xallever.1874:

gawker.8340:

xallever.1874:

By theory, ranged DPS out-DPSes a melee not by the numbers per hit, but by the fact that a ranged DPS has more ability to connect hits. So in 10 seconds, a warrior may hit once for 4k, while the ranged DPS only hits 2.5k. But in that span of time, the ranged DPS then may hit 10 times, clearly outshining the melee.

It shouldn’t be the case that ranged DPS hits as hard as melee per hit. Just that there should be more situations where being in the melee range is unsuitable.

What are you saying? Ranged attacks have many problems with obstruction, body block, out of range, and projectile lagg. Range attacks, especially slow moving LB shots hit less than 30% of the time.

I’m not saying that ranged DPS must always hit more. I’m saying that this is how ranged DPS is normally out-DPSing melee in general. This is how it is in games like WoW or DotA.

Of course every range attack suffers those potential DPS loss, but the reason why they shouldn’t hit as hard is because range is already a great advantage due to kiting possibility, positioning, etc.

In AC dungeon, when you kill the mobs atop the rocks in melee is usually an advantage only privileged to the ranged DPSers because this advantage is all about being unreachable yet you still manage to connect hits.

You need to check out Warrior Rifle. It’s ridiculous.

I remember once I was on top of a tower, spamming longbow #1 on an ele down below me. She was in a huge zerg. I had been slowly plinking away at her health for a while, hoping she wouldn’t notice and would die. When she got to about 10% health, someone put down a water field and she healed back to full health. At that point I looked like a total durp. So I stowed my longbow and promptly walked through the gate into Lion’s Arch and went AFK in front of the bank for the rest of the day.

The first thing that came to the front of my mind was, “Here I am, the supposed ‘master of range’ and I can’t even do enough dps as a full zerker to make an ele back away and see me as a threat.”

Yup happens all the time to every ranger I see including me. Power rangers absolutely crap damage because 30% of it is tied up to an autistic pet. I am a free loot bag, srsly.

xallever.1874:

gawker.8340:

xallever.1874:

By theory, ranged DPS out-DPSes a melee not by the numbers per hit, but by the fact that a ranged DPS has more ability to connect hits. So in 10 seconds, a warrior may hit once for 4k, while the ranged DPS only hits 2.5k. But in that span of time, the ranged DPS then may hit 10 times, clearly outshining the melee.

It shouldn’t be the case that ranged DPS hits as hard as melee per hit. Just that there should be more situations where being in the melee range is unsuitable.

What are you saying? Ranged attacks have many problems with obstruction, body block, out of range, and projectile lagg. Range attacks, especially slow moving LB shots hit less than 30% of the time.

I’m not saying that ranged DPS must always hit more. I’m saying that this is how ranged DPS is normally out-DPSing melee in general. This is how it is in games like WoW or DotA.

Of course every range attack suffers those potential DPS loss, but the reason why they shouldn’t hit as hard is because range is already a great advantage due to kiting possibility, positioning, etc.

In AC dungeon, when you kill the mobs atop the rocks in melee is usually an advantage only privileged to the ranged DPSers because this advantage is all about being unreachable yet you still manage to connect hits.

You need to check out Warrior Rifle. It’s ridiculous.

xallever.1874:

By theory, ranged DPS out-DPSes a melee not by the numbers per hit, but by the fact that a ranged DPS has more ability to connect hits. So in 10 seconds, a warrior may hit once for 4k, while the ranged DPS only hits 2.5k. But in that span of time, the ranged DPS then may hit 10 times, clearly outshining the melee.

It shouldn’t be the case that ranged DPS hits as hard as melee per hit. Just that there should be more situations where being in the melee range is unsuitable.

What are you saying? Ranged attacks have many problems with obstruction, body block, out of range, and projectile lagg. Range attacks, especially slow moving LB shots hit less than 30% of the time.

Also, warriors have no problem hitting because they can stick to rangers so easily.

BobbyT.7192:

Actually, ranger do have some burst, which is quite decent, but may or may not be reliable because it does involve the pet.

Ranger Burst is super bad. Go play zerk Ele, which is basically a much better version of power ranger.

Why can’t ranger cheese?

Cheese = abuse a certain skill.

Let me illustrate cheese:

Thief – Blind then Steal then Cloak and Dagger then Backstab then Blind … repeat. When in danger cast Shadow Refuge.

Warrior – Charge/Bullrush then 100 Blades then AA. When group of enemies arrive, turn 180 Spin, Charge, Bullrush.

I propose allow Ranger to cheese. I’ll be honest, i’ll will suggest ways to compete not ways to “glow” with aspects.

SkiTz.4590:

The more responses I read from Anet, the more I realize how little they must play this classes compared to people who have put endless hours into ranger… I’m so close to re-rolling and starting a new main if this “keep rangers as a sustained DPS” nonsense is actually going to happen.

Exactly!

It’s all about upfront damage and using the element of surprise. No one is masterful enough to flawlessly execute fights for prolonged time to use attrition as an advantage in combat.

Allie Murdock.8152:

I didn’t say Rangers are in the right spot. I just meant that we have to be very careful of the power creep.

Is the Balance team considering any overall increase in damage? I ask because I would like to know if the team thinks Ranger is doing enough damage.

Personally, I don’t think so. Ranger is far behind every class in terms of damage. I’m not comparing DPS on a weapon to weapon basis, I’m talking about all the optimized builds in the meta and there I qualitatively conclude that Ranger does not deal enough damage.

I would say the ranger has very good durability which translate to good survivability. But this meta is all about what a class can deliver in terms of up-front damage. Playing the attrition game is more inherently risky because you cannot capitalize of the element of surprise as much, and the longer the battle exists, the more prone to mistakes you make. I don’t see how it’s fair that Ranger is designed to use attrition, which punishes mistakes disproportionately.

jewishjoyride.4693:

How about we just get a trait that strips a boon on cripple????

:D

This suggestion is OP.

How does this fall in the rhetoric of pet class?

It doesn’t. Don’t waste time and resources to pursue “aspects”.

We should keep our pets and figure out a way to make them viable in the long run.

All in all, just buff us.

Amekale
Gate of Madness
WvW

Specific Game Mode
WvW

Proposal Overview
Rework Search And Rescue.

Goal of Proposal
When this skill becomes viable it may be seen to used. As of currently, no ranger uses it and groups do not request rangers to use it.

Proposal Functionality
Make it effortlessly do what it is intended to do without range constraints and other bugs associated.

Associated Risks
Rangers may be able to support groups well enough that certain counter-play to pets must be used.

I hope Dev are absorbing all of this.

Specific Game Mode
PvE

Proposal Overview
Remove range knockback from Point Blank Shot. Increase damage by significant amount.

Goal of Proposal
Rangers get bad reputation for using Point Blank Shot when they shouldn’t.

Proposal Functionality
Exchange knock back for one ‘back-stab-esque’ skill that fires quick and fast. Used at close range to wreck enemies.

Associated Risks
May be criticized for being stronger than backstab because it is 900 range.

Specific Game Mode
WvW

Proposal Overview
Entangle should AoE knockdown foes and deal damage instead of ticking bleed and immobilized.

Goal of Proposal
Ranger will have reliable way to utilize entangle.

Proposal Functionality
Currently, entangle is too easy to escape from. Allow ranger to use it as an AoE interrupt will make this skill far more powerful and useful.
Associated Risks
This skill becomes very strong and may make rangers a good killer.