Guild Wars 2

Pro’s:
-Above average single target DPS
-Easy to learn
-Commands an assortment of pets

Con’s:
-Worse AoE damage
-Below average mobility
-Difficult to manage pets
-Below average set of utility skills
-Below average condition removal
-Below average group support
-Suffers from negative opinions from community

Ah, he/she has an elegant choice of pets. Not sure what it is but it could be BM bunker if it took 3 thieves to down. I would be more certain if you can confirm the off hand was warhorn.

Aurawind.8429:

Weapons & Skills

Shortbow

1. Crossfire - Remove the requirement of having to bleed on flanking. I find it unfair that engis and necros can toss out more conditions as well as having no requirement for constant auto attack pressure. In most cases one cannot ideally position himself the way they would like for this to be effective.

The rate of fire of SB is so high though. I could maintain ~8 stacks of bleeds easily with current restrictions. If they were lifted, i would imagine the bleeding on SB will be very OP.

I guess where it balances out in their mind is the fact that spirit offers active effects like Call lightning. Man that hits like a truck last year. But yea, someone already did the math and the banners give more support than spirits.

Reverse leap chain for #2 on sword. It’s better that way for combo fields.

The simplest suggestions I can give is use drakes for SPvP. It’s so devasting even on non-BM builds.

Issues with complexity. In short, Ranger has to be simpler and traits, skills, pets need to be stream-lined. Honestly, one big problem ranger has is providing an avenue for a high range DPS build because the LB is buggy and the pet is kinda meh.

Also the extended edition of above is click my name and look for it. It’s called the reason ranger is bad.

trunks.5249:

playing a ranger does take a lot of practice to be good. but they are so much fun to play.my favorite class was a guardian tell i decided to roll a ranger.now rangers my favorite class

Yea the ranger bunker is solid compared to guardian. The plus side is how most of our attacks are not massively telegraphed and the pet can sometimes take care of people who don’t know how to deal with it.

Cufufalating.8479:

@gawker

I can see your point, but I still disagree that there is a problem. You’re basicly advocating that the casual gamer should be able to pick up the ranger (and by extention, any class) and play it well, which I just dont think should be the case. We have a class (warrior) which is more or less entirely dedicated to casuals who dont want to put in much effort for high reward, and I have no problem with that, and even within the other profesions there are builds which do the same thing (Regen Bunkers are ours, as shadowpass stated), but I dont see any need for the entire profesion to be dumbed down and made easy. There are other options if someone wants an easy ride, but if thats what they want then not every door should be open to them.

@shadowpass

I somewhat see your point to.. although I dont entirely agree, and regardless thats really beyond the scope of this thread. This thread is abotu whether or not rangers should be easier and funner to play, rather than should they be better once mastered, so forgive me for not answering you directly… We have enough people locking horns on that issue on other threads

I agree but only because I think arguing is bad. I think Anet needs to rename the profession though because it’s usually the Ranger that is the faceroll type in many games. It draws a lot of attention from players looking for a particularly popular and relatively easy play style (pew pew). Our ranger is not really a ranger in the mmorpg sense of the word and it can lead to unnecessary grievances.

Zoef.2761:

Why don’t you speak for yourself instead. The reason why I am bad looks more appropriate to me. Another load of crap like I’ve seen so often on this forum.

I could do that, but I didn’t. Just like how you didn’t offer any interesting perspective.

Bran.7425:

Actually thinking on what they were saying in the last Ready Up ranger basically can’t have nice things because of the existence of other profession. Can’t have mobility that is a thief thing, can’t have much stealth that is a mesmer/thief thing, can’t be too hearty that is a warrior thing, can’t be great group support that is a guardian/elementalist thing and so on. All ranger got is a pet that they can not balance correctly nor program and a single target focus in the world of Tag Wars 2 for 2/3 of the game.

Yes, i’ve moved on to warrior. The grass is greener on the other side for sure.

shadowpass.4236:

Playing successfully is one thing. And it already requires a lot of skill and effort to do so on this class (unless ur running full regen ranger ofc… that’s a pretty faceroll build)

While it is OK for ranger to be one of the harder classes to play and master, the reward you get for actually doing so should be higher than it is now.

Like u mentioned, engi and ele are two of the classes with higher skill floors, however, playing them well means you are more than successful. You are basically overpowered, as with any other class except for ranger.

They all have their faceroll cheese builds.

- Warrior has numerous builds
– Engi has condi overload/hybrid rifle (new meta)
– Ele has celestial d/d (I run it as well and did might stacking before Rune of Atrength buff so I knew how to play it well before most people)
– Guard has a few different ones
– Necro has minion/fearmancer
– Mesmer has PU/phantasm
– Thief has permastealth regen thieves/p-d condi
– Ranger has… nothing. I mean, you can call regen ranger OP if you want, which is kind of is, but that’s only one build. Don’t get me wrong, there are viable builds like trap, but other classes do condi better (with the exception of guard and ele), other classes do zerk better (all of them), and other classes have better ways to survive (again, all of them)

Maybe i’m just calling for such a simple thing as a name change. Clearly, there is no Ranger class or not one that most people are familiar with. Our beautiful ranger is some kind of druid that knows how to vaguely use bow and arrows, he’s certainly not expert at it. It’s so conflicting to have a ranger that does better without range.

I found the trap ranger very strong too. It would be nice to experience that kind of “immortal” feeling on a Longbow power specc.

Cufufalating.8479:

There’s nothing bad about a class being harder to play / master. All the classes have different skill levels required.. Engis are famously hard to master, whereas warriors are famously easy, and everyone else sits somewhere inbetween depending on their build.

Theres nothing wrong with that. Not every class should be an faceroll class.

And in regards to rangers being boring.. that is really just an opinion. I find guaridans boring and regret all the money and badges I spent gearing it, but you dont see me complaining on the guardian forums. I just accept that its role and playstyle isnt what I am looking for and play the classes I do enjoy.

So yeah.. the problems you highlight are not actual problems.

There’s an underlying fundamental question in regards to the application of the basic philosophy of balance: How hard should a class be to play and succeed?

It’s nice and fancy to optimize for highly skilled people, but those people exist few and far apart. I think it’s better to shoot for the common denominator. There’s vastly more people waiting, with baited breath, for a Ranger they could enjoy on a casual level. Right now, Ranger is mysteriously conflicting to play successfully. I would go as far as deceptively difficult to play.

warriorjrd.8695:

gawker.8340:

shadowpass.4236:

gawker.8340:

The fourth sentence says the class is hard and boring to play, thus it is bad.

It’s not bad in the sense that you seem to understand it.

LOL.

Your title is “The reason we are bad”.

You said the class is “bad” in the OP.

Sorry. I must’ve misunderstood that as with many others. Bad = Good in your dictionary amirite -click- or nawww

=P

Yes, you misunderstood. But you are still incorrect because bad=/=good in my dictionary. Try reading, and then think. If you manage to address a specific point in the OP, then I can help you. If you just blatantly use scarecrow arguments, then I can’t help you. I’m not claiming the ranger is unequal or inferior to others. My claim is Ranger is unnecessarily complex to play relative to other professions and that we’re unrewarded for it, in fact we are punished disproportionately when our mistakes accumulate. It’s bad for the player to be in such a situation.

So try warrior, I hear it’s very easy to play. Not too complex for somebody like yourself either, you don’t have to “manage” a pet or be “constantly aware” of your surroundings. If you want a class that can run in and faceroll the keyboard, then warrior is for you my friend. As Prysin said, L2P or reroll. Those rangers who are dedicated adapt to the class and preform exceptionally with it, I suggest you try the same and stop whining.

I want to emphasize the distinction between whining and suggesting. I’m trying to do the latter with this thread. I’m also entitled to my opinions and you can’t make me stop anything, save for blocking me, which I won’t regret. It’s also implicit that I want to improve the class because I am dedicated to it, hence the reason I make my suggestions. Your last sentence hints at strong condescension, and I take it as to mean that i’m undedicated and thus fail to perform exceptionally. I reserve the right to judge how exceptional I am, thank you. You must be some sort of exceptional too because I think it takes one to know one.

Holland.9351:

Ranger panic buttons:
- Protect Me
- Lightning Reflexes

I won’t count Signet of Stone, but I’ll mention it anyway.

Protect me requires the pet to be alive. If your pet is alive, it’s going to die due to this utility. Then you are out of ways to transfer conditions, and also you lose some DPS overall.

Lightning Reflexes literally goes on cool down when we’re launched. And lets not pretend that sometimes it’s better to not roll backwards when you’re being chased and some guy just threw immobilized on you. Signet of stone is actually the only oh-kitten button that doesn’t hurt us in any situation. Too bad it’s 6 points deep in marksman, a trait line that is garbage unless you want to use LB.

solrik.6028:

gawker.8340:

Start with slight trait rework for the power build ranger. Then rework Longbow to be free of bugs and linearize the effectiveness of LB with and without traits. Clean up the UI of pet and perhaps dedicate more time to make some weak pets better. Some of them never see the light of day, poor things. Lets give more control of the pet to the user because pets seem to attack randomly. Things that aren’t under your control are by definition tough to use. Those are just some of the things to consider for the future of ranger kind.

I think the LB is very fine.

The above applies especially to the 15 seconds quickness build. He-he-he

That quickness is nice. The bow is buggy. Obstructed shots sometimes when there’s no visible thing obstructing. Also, the untraited long bow can’t even hit things >1000 range when the tool tip says it’s capable of 1200 range. I realize there is a limit as to how fast our arrows move, but mesmer GS is consistently effective at 0 to max range without traits. We’re suppose to be range experts, c’mon.

shadowpass.4236:

gawker.8340:

The fourth sentence says the class is hard and boring to play, thus it is bad.

It’s not bad in the sense that you seem to understand it.

LOL.

Your title is “The reason we are bad”.

You said the class is “bad” in the OP.

Sorry. I must’ve misunderstood that as with many others. Bad = Good in your dictionary amirite -click- or nawww

=P

Yes, you misunderstood. But you are still incorrect because bad=/=good in my dictionary. Try reading, and then think. If you manage to address a specific point in the OP, then I can help you. If you just blatantly use scarecrow arguments, then I can’t help you. I’m not claiming the ranger is unequal or inferior to others. My claim is Ranger is unnecessarily complex to play relative to other professions and that we’re unrewarded for it, in fact we are punished disproportionately when our mistakes accumulate. It’s bad for the player to be in such a situation.

Perma Stealth is true. I can attest to that because i’ve never seen a thief, ever.

Swagg.9236:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Spoonfeed me.

Snap player movement/repositioning achieved through physics engine/game-play exploits fosters skill-based combat. GW2 doesn’t have any of that. Therefore, GW2 is crippled on a fundamental level as to how it produces skill-based, player-driven combat. Sticky targeting and excessive stat stacking also kills skill-based combat, but that’s another topic. Just go to the bottom of the first page so I don’t have to copy-paste my words again.

ruincakes.8231:

this is a swagg post

I don’t expect anyone that plays GW2 to understand the qualities that go into making a good game.

I think you are the most knowledgeable person on this forum.

When I WvW, I come across warriors. I notice that a disproportionate number of warriors engage in mockery. It’s usually warriors that jump on dead players, or /laugh while retreating. That kind of stuff is annoying as kitten so if you are one, please run into traffic.

Ryan.9387:

There are not many rangers high on the leaderboards in NA at least.

Well that only means there’s an opportunity for a prestigious Ranger to rise above the rest. Honestly, I don’t care about e-sports culture. I think ranger is in this state because Anet caters to e-sports fanatics.

Why can’t we just leave Anet alone?

I think they are underfunded.

Buy Gems for Balance.

warriorjrd.8695:

gawker.8340:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Some people like being an underdog, that way an opponent has no excuse as to why they lost. They just got outplayed.

Ranger is not and underdog, who said? Bro, there are rangers than can run circles around the best cheese build like hambow warrior.

Your title seems to imply differently. Regardless of how you think the ranger is played, it can be played effectively, no class is “bad”.

You didn’t read anything I wrote in OP. The fourth sentence says the class is hard and boring to play, thus it is bad. It’s not bad in the sense that you seem to understand it.

“It is not what you comment, but how and why you comment it that counts.”

Viking Jorun.5413:

gawker.8340:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Some people like being an underdog, that way an opponent has no excuse as to why they lost. They just got outplayed.

Ranger is not and underdog, who said? Bro, there are rangers than can run circles around the best cheese build like hambow warrior.

And you know that it’s based around skill, not cooldown spamming. Don’t get so defensive, you act as if it was an attack on the class.

I don’t care if you talk non-sense, keep talking. You don’t even have to leave a comment if you don’t bother to address what I wrote in the OP. Saying some people like strong and noble underdogs makes it sound like you are referring to yourself. I sensed a hint of condescension there.

I like 2/3/6/3/0 more as a classic bleeder build

8 stacks of bleeds minimum
700 condi damage
zerker damage
it’s OP

Loving that non-existent melee AoE.

On a serious note; i’m kittening switching to warrior for good.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Some people like being an underdog, that way an opponent has no excuse as to why they lost. They just got outplayed.

Ranger is not and underdog, who said? Bro, there are rangers than can run circles around the best cheese build like hambow warrior.

That’s just clever rhetoric to keep you and I playing.

Bran.7425:

They could normalize the damage based on range and then give the armor pierce that varies with range instead.

This brings you back to square one if you didn’t notice. The LB already has tiered damage according to range. You’re suggesting the same thing, but calling it " armour pierce."

We’re are a counter class. Made to counter; hence, we have evade spam and access to all kinds of passive defenses. This is a fundamentally most challenging aspect of combat. We’re loaded up with traits, weapons and utilities to literally have hundred ways to make a bunker build. That kitten is boring as kitten and by bell curve approximation to player skill base, only maybe the top 2% of Ranger players enjoy it. This class is tough and boring as hell to play properly because you have to have god-tier awareness of your surroundings, your cooldowns and pet’s health and pet’s cooldowns to be successful in highly competitive environment. Other classes have much more room for error, and each of them have an oh-kitten button. In the case of warriors and thieves, five or six of those. I admit that as far as I can tell, theoretically Ranger has all the tools, only the game-play needs to be simplified. Making things simple doesn’t necessarily mean make it stronger or strip away vestigial parts of class.

Start with slight trait rework for the power build ranger. Then rework Longbow to be free of bugs and linearize the effectiveness of LB with and without traits. Clean up the UI of pet and perhaps dedicate more time to make some weak pets better. Some of them never see the light of day, poor things. Lets give more control of the pet to the user because pets seem to attack randomly. Things that aren’t under your control are by definition tough to use. Those are just some of the things to consider for the future of ranger kind.

You should be rewarded for skilled group play. Wish my ranger could contribute on that level.

I like to use spiders for immobilize and poison. Keep in mind that spiders attacks really slow and the projectile has the same problem as untraited Longbow. I suggest you use muddy terrain to make it easier for the spider to land those hits.

Ision.3207:

Shockwave.1230:

I am always curious why ppl complain about thieves in WvW. I’d appreciate if the complaints came with addition context such, as 1v1, 5v5, zergVzerg, and any additional environmental context that’s relevant.

In general I get the feeling people are upset about 1v1 situations where their build isn’t setup for a dual and a thief’s is, so additional context would be helpful.

Also stealth doesn’t allow contesting of points unless someone is somehow exploiting a bug.

Shock, you have just summed up the entire issue. Bravo.

In essence, this, and only this, is the reason for the endless QQ about stealth/clones. The entire stealth mechanic is basically a “one-venue pony” so to speak: WvW solo or small group roaming. In all other venues the stealth mechanic is at best average, and often a poor trait-line choice.

BUT, but … you have to remember the psychology involved here. When you die to a NPC or even a WvW zerg blob, it has little impact or meaning — but when a player dies (or is frustrated by his opponent being able to easily disengage) to another real-life player – for many, especially adolescents, they take it very personal. The Rage/QQ against stealth is not new, and can be found in every single MMO that has a class that specializes in stealth. In this respect you simply have to take the QQ with a grain of salt, and ignore it mostly.

The bottom line is that some players, especially those that like to roam in WvW, believe that they have some kind of “right” not to be frustrated, and since stealth and clones do just that, many (not all) re-act like frustrated children, ie, they throw a “forum tantrum”. By the way, this is NOT true of everyone, as there are many folks that do just fine in WvW solo/small group roaming on non Thief or Mesmers classes. In fact, many of them specialize in killing thieves/mesmers. But that won’t get you anywhere in these discussions; because a 16-year old tantrum thrower that just got stomped 3 strait times trying to 1v1 a thief with his PvE build, he does not want to hear it.

The frustration can be explained empirically. Also, I wonder if you know why WvW is filled with thieves and warriors. It’s rhetorical.

Condition duration food is the culprit. 40% duration is insane. That’s analogous to +40% dmg for a power build.

bigmonto.4215:

Oh man don’t be naive, its a edited video with the selected best footage. Every single profession has these.

Just to prove my point: here is a 5 min of looking through this forum. Every single one of them with 1vX and impressive looking

ele: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GieXgGnX1Bs&feature=youtu.be
eng: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEOx0xjkaDg
guard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSls3ORlJRM
mesmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N56od0juDdY
Ranger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o23VuRNc7nE
necro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzyVTFM7uSc
thief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOiWNhK6LS4

So now what nerf everyone?

I want to note that the Ranger video in particular was made during the time when BM bunker was un-nerfed. So presently, Ranger is nerfed already.

Viking Jorun.5413:

People need to get off of this train of “ranger is bad design” and learn to play the class.

I don’t know why you brought that up. I’m not complaining about design, i’m talking about 1 build on 1 class in 1 game-mode.

Kibazuka.1390:

So ranger is bad in one particularly playstyle in one mode which is messed up and badly balanced by basic design and was never intended or subject of any balance decision ever.

Oh no, how horrible!

And thieves are terrible at bunkering points, quick, they need help!

Don’t see why you bring up disgusting sPvP when i’m talking specifically about 1 build on 1 class in 1 game mode. I thought I made it clear that I don’t care about sPvP or PvE.

Sigmoid.7082:

I don’t see why more people don’t run sw/d/lb. Its the combo I and a few others roll with and it is beautiful! Evades, stick to your target and if they run of you need a break lb for pbs/rf combo or pbs/his for stealth and space making then either barrage or rf.

I have had people chase me thinking I was an easy kill and then they stand in my barrage as I melee them and wonder why they drop so fast…

If only we were slightly better at zerging instead of ranging then it would be nice but range gonna range

That’s the exact weapon set I use, brother. I have been using that for about 3 months now. It does it’s job and is easy to play. However, I find that it’s not enough to use that build to compete with top tier players. You are forced into condition bunker or BM bunker to compete at high level skill play. Otherwise, the current LB zerker Ranger can snipe average players easily.

jcbroe.4329:

If I was you, I’d edit out the last line of the OP because, while it is understandable that you have frustrations with ANet, I do sincerely think this topic is important and deserves to have some discussion, since it is actually quite relevant.

As mentioned, there are lots of “useless” traits, especially from a WvW standpoint. Skirmishing is actually the least functional traitline available, and does nothing of value for builds outside of stat increases. Meanwhile, WS has a ton of useful traits for all types of builds, but doesn’t necessarily have the most desirable stat increases for power based builds.

Nature Magic improves the most group oriented utility, which is spirits, but spirits just so happen to be ineffective in a lot of the WvW encounters. Between siege and AoE spam and the paper quality spirits have even when fully traited, combined with their “uninteresting” or more or less unnoticeable effect in large scale situations, they aren’t really all that great.

Combine that with lots of selfish utilities, like Signets, that require heavy trait investment to even be useful but are less effective than they should be if you are arguing whether or not to take a ranger or another damage class/build and which is the best in slot option.

With food buffs and large cleansing due to how well classes like guardians stack and how limited removing boons is (like retaliation), traps are basically just a no, and what is a shout ranger really? They are easily replaceable, and usually heavily invested into a pet mechanic for their damage that just doesn’t scale well at all with any number of players outside of about 2, which is also the argument for BM invested rangers.

Some of those options are clearly good for roaming and small skirmishes, but ranger is truly just about, if not, the most lacking class when it comes to larger group encounters, particularly if you are talking about Best in Slot compositions, at which point every other class can either completely replace rangers while offering better utility, or bring so much more to the table that the loss of whatever a ranger actually brings (being a nuisance with a pet and no real burst damage unless they are suiciding with GS or in PVT gear and like a fly buzzing in your ear).

Honestly, at the end of the day, ranger is just some poor hybrid between thieves and warriors that have decent enough mobility, but don’t benefit and output at the same level as thieves to justify building selfishly, and aren’t damage oriented enough as warriors to be effective tanky damage dealers, and are stuck with a very poor excuse for a class mechanic that scales increasingly less with every single content patch, not to mention just existing WvW content.

Just some thoughts from me (fyi, I’m one of the ranger SOAC podcast hosts, or the cohost more technically).

This is why I should leave it to people like you to articulate what I feel about Ranger. You have mentioned many things that are true and I feel you. I’m just so troubled that Ranger power build is so bad yet some people actually deny it. You obviously understand how to compare professions and can give cogent reasons why such and such class is better suited for a certain role. Many other Rangers here keep saying I need L2P. They don’t even understand what i’m saying therefore they cannot address it. I know most, if not, all the strengths of Ranger. I know how to play the game well, and it’s because I know the game so well that I find Ranger weak.

DarkFlopy.8197:

gawker.8340:

1. So many useless traits

2. No utility worth having

3. Power build is so bad

4. Pet is useless

Worst of all, Ranger apologists from sPvP and PvE says Ranger is balanced when clearly it’s not in WvW.

Ya, I made this thread because just for the slim chance Anet will address it.

just Lol…
i will give you an example of how rangers can fight if you know your class and play them right.
3 simple steps :
1)go here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYqwd1GXsT4
2)watch
3)stop complaning.

i agree that ranger has low damage on some stuff, some useless traits and utility skills but that doesnt mean he cannot kill slay and murder every class…

I watched two fights, and I’m not impressed. Those are bad players you are facing.

Also, I want to clarify; I never said Ranger cannot kill anything. I am strictly talking about the 4 points. I have killed many people too, but there are certain builds on other professions that are simply unstoppable if you are ranger.

I’m Longbow Ranger and my Kryptonite is every other class that knows how to play. My strength should be deadly long range attacks. My weakness should be my extremely low defense and limited ways to chase my enemies; hence, i’m just a defensive sentry that can protect objectives. Make it so that Ranger would be a necessary part of tower defense in WvW. Please, do something because the long bow build for Ranger right now is not good.

1. So many useless traits

2. No utility worth having

3. Power build is so bad

4. Pet is useless

Worst of all, Ranger apologists from sPvP and PvE says Ranger is balanced when clearly it’s not in WvW.

Ya, I made this thread because just for the slim chance Anet will address it.

3 on sword does not connect about 1/10 tries. #2 leap is alright except that the leap direction should be reversed ( good for combo fields with traps). #1 will kill you often if you don’t turn off auto.

Despite the problems with sword, it’s still light-years better than GS.

There is a minor premise that needs to be looked at closer. That is, not all classes are overpowered. Ranger is way behind the rest.

I think Ranger pets are broken. You know a mechanic is broken when the best strategy to do is not engage pets.

Rangers suck. Please everyone demand Anet to address Ranger issues.

You have too much pride and delusion of grandeur to face the reality. Pets are terrible.

You’ll hardly find an objection here. It seems logical that Jaguars run faster than men.

shadowpass.4236:

@Gawker
I was talking about this one.

Mystogan.4157:

heres what i went with. the fury time was not realistic because you would have to spam the utilities to much so yeaaa
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJARTjEq0xaJLusQ1ag9gadAUAndrhw9WcEtNA-TFCBABfq+jR7PsnuAAeCAYcBAyS5XIHCgzUCSKAmUGB-w

25% crit chance naturally
45% crit chance with fury.

so rapid fire hits for 4k give or take (from the vulnerability, opening shot, the actual channel itself, etc. etc.)

4000 * .45 = 1800
1800 * (2.11 + .15) = 2070 (critical damage + steady focus, +5% dmg while under the effects of fury)
4000 * .55 = 2200
2200 * 1.15 = 2530 (steady focus, +5% dmg while under the effects of fury)
2070 + 2530 = 4600…

sorry, in my previous post I was wrong.

you would actually hit for 4.6k (give or take, depending on how lucky u are with ur crits) but this is pretty much what you’ll hit for.

if he had 100% crit chance and rapid fire hit for 4k, then yes, overall, he’d do 8k damage

but with 25% crit chance (its rlly 45% cuz he pretty much has permanent fury), ur only doing a fraction of what u think you’d do

Let me know if i’m wrong, but from experience rapid fire does more than 4k consistently. Even in full soldier gear my ranger does 6k rapid fire. I guess you must be factoring in fairly high armour in your calculation.

Not going to lie, I used to destroy average thieves with rapid fire and point blank shot as full valkyrie glass.

I agree chill is very powerful. But it’s SO gimmicky to use frost trap to get frost aura. Eles can get frost aura on dagger 4 with one press of a button.