Guild Wars 2

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Gidorah,

First of all i was listing the next topics and asking everyone’s thoughts on choosing the original topics. I made no comment on whether or not that discussion was valid.

Secondly there is certainly value to discussing this issue being that any ArenaNet dev is welcome to post.

Third, i am sorry that the WvW thread wasn’t more like the PVE one. This is my fault in that i underestimated how busy the guys were, and also that they feel anxious around posting due to not being a 100% percent sure about what they can discuss and secondly their trepidation in posting which can be a pretty difficult environment for them sometimes.

Fourth, be under no illusion that these guys work very hard, play the hell out of WvW and are excellent at their jobs. Please note that i also (like many others at Arena) play WvW.

Finally my proposal around the next topics for discussion was to hear folks opinions. Please don’t assume what my personal opinion is around those individual topics.

I appreciate your patience and hope that this makes some sense.

Chris

Hi Gidorah,

I would suggest reading this post again, specifically point three. I am at a loss as to how better explain to you that there was an issue with the WvW CDI and the areas we will be concentrating on to fix any issues.

You are starting to waste my time and the time of community members contributing to bettering the process through problem solving and evolving discussion.

Chris

I think the problem is I haven’t seen any real effort to fix it yet. You havent stepped into the wvw thread to talk about how the wvw thread in particular went with the actual wvw community. Instead you stay here and make them come to you and derail this thread because you won’t adresss the concerns they are having in their thread. Which to be honest is pretty similar to how you handled the actual cdi.

Wolfey.3407:

Rumor has it that John Smith is really Donald Trump. Using the game as a means to test his ideas before he pushes them out. o.o dun dun dun

coming to the gem store soon gold plated bankruptcies.

Nike.2631:

I’m with you. But realistically the best you’ll typically get is a “We can do better”. In some respects the existence of a CDI thread on a topic may be acknowledging that there is a problem… Maybe that’s something that can be folded into the tone of the initial ‘primer’ post by the Devs? The threads exist to make something better. You don’t typically try to fix what’s not broke.

I wasn’t involved in that one so I don’t have an immediate grasp of how it went (though you’re not the first to mention “poorly” ). Which do you want more? An apology or a better thread next time? I’m not saying they’re mutually exclusive, just asking about the priorities.

thats sort of the problem the initiative was started to fix the problem and it seemed to do that for pvp and pve for wvw it merely confirmed the wvw dev’s do not actually want to participate in discusions with wvw player. The cdi dicusion thread in wvw right now to discuss how to make it better has exactly 0 dev responses and 2/3rds of the player responses are discussing how poorly it went. I get the current method of pretending that the problem doesnt exist is what chris is going with but if you look at the wvw cdi discusion thread you can see that this method isnt exactly helpful for moving the discusion forward.

Nike.2631:

Case in point, I said some absolutely vicious things about the character Scarlet (which I stand by), but despite that I moved on to having a useful chat with Bobby Stein over pressures in character creation and possibilities for increasing story immersion. But that discussion began with the technique I mentioned above: finding one of his quotes and starting from there. It really does help to show you are listening before you expect to be listened to.

sure i absolutely agree with what you said about scarlet but bobby actually admitted that the scarlet story isn’t being perceived the way he hoped and then you guys had your discussion. Currently the wvw discussion is in the same poor state it was before
and the guy who decided to fix that problem is currently ignoring that the problem exists.

Nike.2631:

About pointing out the Devs have dropped the ball: There is a very limited amount that you can expect folks to acknowledge, much less apologize for, past mistakes. Saving face is not just for the Japanese. The only real advantage to bringing these things up as a poster is to establish your understanding of the environment – going hunting for a pound of flesh over past grievances is going to be mostly a waste of time and move you into that invisible but slightly inevitable blacklist. People don’t readily chat with unlikeable people, no matter how right the unlikable person is . So stating your (negative) opinion can build your credibility, if you don’t grind it in. Basically, if you have a problem with part of the game, make your case… and then Look Forward.

While i think you are mostly correct they also can’t fix problems if they don’t acknowledge that the problem exists. So far the wvw thread has been the wvw dev’s doing the bare minimum and just making a mess of the process with a lack of participation and direction and chris sticking his head in the sand about it even being a problem. Unless this is one of those rare problems that can be fixed by ignoring it someone is going to have to do something and a nice start would be an apology for how badly the wvw thread was handled.

in case anyone actually wants a response to how poorly the wvw thread is doing you will have to go over to the pve thread to be heard this is being ignored much like the actual discusion was

Nike.2631:

Guhracie.3419:

I don’t think the issue is that anyone feels like you’re “stealing” or “usurping” ideas, I think it’s more that- agree or disagree, you’re the one getting the direct interaction. EDIT: Which is in no way your doing, I feel compelled to add!

Believe me, I’m aware. While its nice to get direct feedback, I’m a bit edgy that I’m inadvertently hogging the stage.

One strategy that may help my fellow posters is to open with small quotes from the Dev posting you are responding to – structure your thoughts so they are conversational rather than stand-alone essays, and arrange them so that Devs reading it see your comments as a fluid extension of what they just said – it lends context and makes it easier for them to respond as if it were a steady and ongoing discussion.

And be concise. I’ve noticed Chris never trims a post he’s responding to, which means the shorter yours is, the more space he has for answering .

yeah pretty much this i got responded too alot before i got cranky about how chris and the wvw dev’s completely dropped the ball on the wvw cdi and are continuing to drop the ball on the wvw cdi. Try to understand it is a large group conversation and build upon other people comments or try to make sure people who summarize your idead better than you get the attention they deserve. It is easier for them to respond to directly questions that are easily answerable. Also changing your name to nike might help.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Edit: Also, aren’t there CDI Process Evolution threads in each of the 3 sub-forums? Why do we discuss WvW’s thread or PvP’s thread here? Is there no one there to discuss their threads and upcoming topics?

you should check out the wvw cdi and then the wvw cdi discusion thread and you would easily see why wvw players would come here to discuss things with dev’s.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

gidorah.4960:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Gidorah,

First of all i was listing the next topics and asking everyone’s thoughts on choosing the original topics. I made no comment on whether or not the discussion was valid.

Secondly there is certainly value to discussing this issue being that any ArenaNet dev is welcome to post.

Third, i am sorry that the WvW thread wasn’t more like the PVE one. This is my fault in that i underestimated how busy the guys were, and also that they feel anxious around posting due to not being a 100% percent sure about what they can discuss and secondly their trepidation in posting which can be a pretty difficulty environment for them sometimes.

Fourth, be under no illusion that these guys work very hard, play the hell out of WvW and are excellent at their jobs. Please note that i also (like many others at Arena) play WvW.

Finally my proposal around the next topics for discussion was to hear folks opinions. Please don’t assume what my personal opinion is around those individual topics.

I appreciate your patience and hope that this makes some sense.

Chris

sure it makes sense but it doesn’t fix the problem. Go check out the wvw version of this discussion and see how poorly it is being received because of the poor job the wvw dev’s did and fix it. I will be more impressed by you fixing the problem and not terrible concerned about the excuses for why it went wrong.

HI Gidorah,

I have not put forward a single excuse. You seem to be quite upset about this, so perhaps it would be worth taking a time out and re-reading my posts.

The CDI is in its infancy.

The whole point of this thread is to discuss and evolve what went wrong after every topic discussion.

Please don’t expect everything to run perfectly and i would suggest, if you cant wait, coming back in a month or so by which time the community and dev interaction will have better synergy and experience.

Please don’t take my comments as anything personal. Many of your posts have been awesome, but i have seen you becoming more and more frustrated. I get that, but please have a little more patience or take a break from the initiative for a few days.

Finally lets not derail the thread anymore than we already have done.

Chris

why shouldnt i be frustrated with the poor job done in the wvw thread and then the follow up lack of understanding shown in picking the next topic. There is still no dev post in the wvw cdi discusion to answer the communities criticisms and it fell to the second page a few times because no one really expects the dev’s to bother discussing anything with the wvw community. They have done a poor job in the past and your new initiative to make it better only confirmed how unwilling they are to have a discussion and how out of touch the developers seem to be with the wvw community. I am far less concerned with your defense of the wvw team than I am with your complete lack of effort to fix it.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Gidorah,

First of all i was listing the next topics and asking everyone’s thoughts on choosing the original topics. I made no comment on whether or not the discussion was valid.

Secondly there is certainly value to discussing this issue being that any ArenaNet dev is welcome to post.

Third, i am sorry that the WvW thread wasn’t more like the PVE one. This is my fault in that i underestimated how busy the guys were, and also that they feel anxious around posting due to not being a 100% percent sure about what they can discuss and secondly their trepidation in posting which can be a pretty difficulty environment for them sometimes.

Fourth, be under no illusion that these guys work very hard, play the hell out of WvW and are excellent at their jobs. Please note that i also (like many others at Arena) play WvW.

Finally my proposal around the next topics for discussion was to hear folks opinions. Please don’t assume what my personal opinion is around those individual topics.

I appreciate your patience and hope that this makes some sense.

Chris

sure it makes sense but it doesn’t fix the problem. Go check out the wvw version of this discussion and see how poorly it is being received because of the poor job the wvw dev’s did and fix it. I will be more impressed by you fixing the problem and not terrible concerned about the excuses for why it went wrong.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

gidorah.4960:

why waste time on the wvw cdi again if you aren’t going to make an effort to make it actually work?

I think the point is we want to improve the WvW CDI moving forward.

Chris

shouldnt you make some effort to understand wvw then. skill lag is caused by poor server optimisation and population imbalance. We just had a cdi on population imbalance and the only thing that seemed clear is the wvw dev’s have no ideas or clear direction about how to fix it. It was in fact the very first time it was even admitted as a problem and that was only because of player vote and from the lack of dev interaction it is not something they seemed to want to discuss at all. The server optimization is being worked on and there isnt any point in players discussing server optimization.

why waste time on the wvw cdi again if you aren’t going to make an effort to make it actually work?

The skill lag is also caused by the world population imbalance and it exists only on the superstacked servers. its a shame the wvw cdi went so poorly as fixing world population imbalance would fix skill lag.

Geniekid.2645:

No, not a failure.

Most of the problems people have mentioned in this thread are WvW problems, not seasonal league tournament problems. Just the fact that you have all these angry people who suddenly care about their WvW status when they didn’t give a kitten before is a huge success.

I agree but it really seems like they are doing this stuff to distract from the fact that they have no idea how to fix some very fundamental problems in wvw. I prefer habib’s method of shutting down everything else till he fixed culling than devons method of doing everything but fixing population imbalance.

is there any way we can set our own gear with 1 mainstat and 2 secondary of our choice?

John Smith.4610:

I’ve already banned Martha Stewart, so we’re ahead of the game.

lol what have you done how am i going to up my cooking to 500 now.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Thanks for the suggestions and feedback i will make sure to do a summary and list actions on Monday.

I don’t want to derail the thread but i would also like to know how everyone would like the next topics to be chosen. Simply would you like to vote again or would you like us to pick the second topics on the respective lists?

Finally i have said this many times so for those that have seen it repeatedly please forgive me for the repetition, but once again i want to make it clear that the only ‘feedback’ i have asked the team not to spend their time on are those comments which are not productive. Specifically comments with no actionable substance. Whilst it is nice to see positive commentary we spend a lot more time discussing and negative criticism so we can learn more and improve the game.

Again for the feedback on how to improve the CDI,

Chris

just pick the 2nd topic in the last vote seems much easier
and here is something that is full of actionable substance. admit how poorly the wvw thread did and fix it.

John Smith.4610:

As a quick note, this is NOT inside trading. I wouldn’t say that insider trading doesn’t exist, but 99% of the time it’s speculation you’re seeing rather than insider trading. I can’t go into details, but we have plans for insider traders.

lol i can’t help but think of how the sec handles it. by ignoring it in 99% of cases and throwing martha stewart under the bus for a trivial amount of money because it is high profile.

lol much like the actual cdi thread the pve and spvp version of this thread already has dev posts. Not sure much else needs to be said actions speak louder than words and everyone can see the bare minimum effort put in to the discussion by the wvw dev’s.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Johje Holan.4607:

They’re commenting on the lack of responses in the other CDI thread too.

Yes… but here, we can literally see — through player post counts — a very large difference between how two communities (WvW and general GW2) react to CDI.

It shows (IMO) that WvW players — much more so than the general GW2 community — have given up on engagement with the devs. Why? This is a very important question that Anet should really be asking themselves.

the difference is the wvw dev’s communication. Chris started this initiative and its up to him to own up too how bad the wvw team did on their end. Our cdi thread started just like the others there was tons of player participation. It wasn’t the players who failed and anet needs to own up to it.

Johje Holan.4607:

They’re commenting on the lack of responses in the other CDI thread too.

sure their aren’t enough dev’s and alot of players. but they at least tried in the other ones wvw dev’s barely showed and weren’t very helpful in shaping and moving the discusion when they did.

Lord Kuru.3685:

The main forum CDI thread had 1014 posts (and 51645 views).
The WvW forum CDI thread had 1134 posts (and 42389 views).

The main forum’s current CDI thread has 100 posts (and 2920 views).
The WvW forum’s current CDI thread has 47 posts and (1907 views).

Why is the ratio between the main form and WvW forums’ posts so drastically different this time? Could it be because players feel the devs aren’t listening and are already giving up on CDI?

pretty much this notice the massive difference in dev participation in the other 2 cdi threads and the wvw one. chris himself abanded the wvw thread to the wvw dev’s who clearly did not want to participate in it.

Brutal Arts.6307:

Wait, did we actually reach a conclusion in the server population imbalance thread or are we just pretending that never happened.

I’m serious here, if any statements were made from anet about adjusting that (in a way that’s not complete trash) please direct me to them.

i do not believe they said they would actually do anything. They really did not take the wvw cdi seriously at all it was a giant mess compared to the other 2 threads.

1. make the wvw dev’s actually show up
lets be honest the wvw version of the cdi was nothing like the pvp or pve version’s
the wvw dev’s only showed up when players started getting testy and then pretended they where active participants the whole time. the thread had a very poor discusion because the wvw dev’s barely showed up to have a discusion with.

Autumn Frazee.3158:

Lastly, if you wish to review the cinematic inside the repeatable version, you can interact with the terminal inside the boss room after the instance has been completed; it will allow you to watch the cinematic as many times as you wish.

this isn’t true. as with most content with scarlet i wish to see it exactly 0 times.

Randulf.7614:

Oh I don’t disagree at all and understand totally how they synergise with the story element. I’m just worried other LW topics may get buried since the emphasis seems now exclusively on DE development. If all topics are being covered evenly, then I’ll go back to reading what is so far one of the few interesting threads on these forums!

:)

I think we have all expressed how little we like scarlet and our worries over the cadence enough. Nothing wrong with talking about how de’s tie into ls for a few pages.

Randulf.7614:

Chris – is it possible to get a separate thread for the DE discussion? Largely because it doesn’t directly pertain to the Living Story and there is a small fear some of the LW feedback has got lost amongst the DE discussion (I understnad they can connect, but they are 2 big topics and if you guys are as busy as you appear, it would be easier to sift through as well I’d imagine)

There’s a weight of great discussion going on here, but the title isn’t advertising it is about DE’s. You could feasibly get more people involved in a separate thread (and it doesn’t need a cut off date either since people can opt in/out at will)

I think de’s are an important part of the living story and belong in this thread.
I would also like to emphasive the wvw version of this thread still needs to be saved it has been discussing the absence of the dev’s for about 5 pages.

lordkrall.7241:

Can’t people just stop with the whole “Buhuhuh the dev is not answering my posts!” and actually post stuff that is useful (unlike this post) instead?

Almost makes me think that some people WANT the initiative shut down.. But then again I suppose that would be perfect for all those claiming that ArenaNet doesn’t care about what the players want.

again go look at the other collaboration threads and look at this one. It’s not that the dev’s aren’t answering any particular posts its that the aren’t answering any posts. why would it matter if a discussion thread gets shut down if it had no discussion in the first place.

also since you are here responding please please please go post in the wvw thread and save it the wvw dev’s are not responding and the thread doesnt resemble the pvp or this living story one at all.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

bradderzh.2378:

Chris,

Any opinions on nike’s TIDES dynamic map idea?

Hi,

I do have opinions (-: however i have lost some time today that i thought i had. Basically i want to feedback on the DE discussion and get more time to read what people liked and didn’t like about the events they have played. With this is mind it would be awesome for these discussions to continue if folks still have anymore insights or discussion points?

And as soon as i get some more time i will get into the discussion again.

Chris

can you do something as big and dynamic as the balthazar event chain over multiple maps temporarily for the living story. does the cadence allow the proper testing to prevent bugs that would be needed because it sounds like thats what people want temple of balthazar like chain but over multiple maps that doesnt reset as often or at all and progresses a story.

Nike.2631:

Was there some big long-term hints in the Aether Path? Because I had real life those weeks and missed that block…

you missed nothing that will help make sense of scarlet or the story by missing the aetherpath

timmyf.1490:

A system for upvoting features we care about would be amazing, but that puts ArenaNet in a very difficult spot as far as feature and release planning.

I could see it being interesting as a way to choose between different story arcs, but technically we got the in-game version of that with Kiel/Gnashblade.

if this thread is any indication i think anet is more than up for the challenge. the living story and pvp threads on collaboration are going great.

Tanith.5264:

BobbyStein.2315:

You have to understand that developers are not at liberty to discuss specifics regarding upcoming releases until we’re absolutely certain that they will make it into a build. Also, we have to be careful not to get in the way of Community or Marketing initiatives. It’s a delicate balance.

That’s understood, I think. Not to mention you’ve got customers with a wide range of interests and concerns. Trying to strike a balance for that has got to be nerve wracking.

Scarlet probably would not irritate as many people as she does if she had more of a unique personality. Right now she just seems to be this generic psycho, with no other purpose apart from causing mayhem. Compare that to Marjory, who calls everyone who crosses her path “Sugar” and makes references to Norn farts.

Now, you say you’ve got an epic conclusion in mind for Scarlet’s storyline. I’m going to trust you on that, and hope to be pleasantly surprised.

I agree that you can’t please everyone but at the same time as someone who doesnt like jump puzzles i can see the effort put into and the quality that came out of stuff like the aetherblade puzle and the whole zephyr area. this effort and quality are also easy to see lacking in the cannach’s lair and bloody prince “dungeons”.

I think i would like to add something about permanent content. I think players where expecting things like tequatl and aetherblade revamp or new areas, skills, weapons, races and dungeons not the scarlet invasions which don’t feel right as permanent content and no one knows why they are continuing or really does them very often anymore.

Gamadorn.2659:

gidorah.4960:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Keep in mind that weekends are a thing. Now that we’re all back in the office, caffeinated and ready to go, we’re gonna jump back in the threads.

Having said that, when you guys get going and are having good discussions, we sit back and make sure we give you guys room to debate/discuss. Just because there isn’t a dev response every X posts, it doesn’t mean we’re not watching the thread.

weird the other 2 threads the dev’s have had no problem posting throughout the week. Maybe you can read the other collaborative development threads see the amount of interaction and see why people think the wvw is being ignored.

Maybe we can back off and be thankful they are even acknowledging and responding at all to these issues I know I am thankful!

i’m not thankful at all for what the wvw dev’s are doing again look at the other collaboration threads and look at this and see why.

also chris if you could stop by the wvw thread and maybe post something the players are revolting over how litle the dev interaction is and it is derailing the thread.

Cactus.2710:

lordkrall.7241:

Maybe you guys should start thinking a bit about what/how you write?
The kind of posts we see here right now is most likely a sure way to get them to shut down this initiative and not do it again in the future.

At this point, what would we have lost? That’s a serious question. We haven’t had a single informed, positive bit of feedback from ANet throughout this entire thread (no … I don’t consider Devon’s posts to be positive since he doesn’t seem to accept that population balance is the objective) and there has been zero collaborative content at all. I desperately wanted this thread to amount to something substantial, and there have been many, many worthwhile suggestions by the WvW player base in an effort to hold up our side of the collaboration. Where is the corresponding participation from ANet?? So far all we know is that the devs have finally managed to get their caffeine fix.

pretty much this look at the living story and pvp threads and then look at this and ask yourself if it’s us players not doing our part or if its the wvw dev’s.

lordkrall.7241:

Maybe you guys should start thinking a bit about what/how you write?
The kind of posts we see here right now is most likely a sure way to get them to shut down this initiative and not do it again in the future.

why would they shut down the collaborative initiative over this? the living story and pvp version is going great the dev’s are active in the thread the players are getting actual collaboration with dev’s.

I think the wvw dev’s need to just apologize for having the least collaborative discusion thread and for not participating and then try to start the discusion up again. Pretending they have been active participants the whole time is going to derail the discusion because the players can see the obvious lie.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Sure, those devs are free to post on the weekend if they want to!

Keep in mind that some devs have families, or may have prior obligations/plans on a weekend, while some other devs may have a lot of free time on a given weekend!

you say that like there was a lot of interaction during last week as well. there wasn’t and the dev interaction in this thread just looks bad if you compare it to the other 2 threads on collaborative development.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

gidorah.4960:

minbariguy.7504:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

We are committed to quality not quantity.

Perhaps it would have been more accurate if I’d stated that you were prioritizing release dates over quality. I get that you guys have every intention to release quality content. You’re all very passionate and committed to what you do, and you obviously want to create things that people enjoy.

However, allow me to make an observation. I’ve noticed that when you discuss future content or features (other than Living Story), you never commit to a release date. My understanding was that this is because game design can be unpredictable: things change, features may not work exactly as you intended, bugs may pop up, or it may simply take more time to polish a feature for release than you intended. And you don’t want to release content before it is ready, hence…you never commit to a release date.

Except for when it comes to Living Story.

Suddenly, every two weeks, just like clockwork, there it is. Right on schedule. How, then, can it be that your priority is on the quality of the release, when you are committed to releasing it on a specific date no matter what?

If you are saying that you now have the ability to make sure that content is ready by a specific date, then surely you have the ability to commit to dates for all your releases (not just Living Story). But of course, we know that this isn’t the case.

So while you may want quality, it certainly isn’t your priority. It can’t be. Not on a specific release schedule. It’s impossible.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

This said there is a lot we can and are doing to meet concerns regarding the cadence and really polish the positives we have already achieved in this area.

I would be really interested to know what you guys are doing to meet my concerns regarding the cadence. Because I honestly have no idea how you can do that while simultaneously stating that the cadence will continue unaltered no matter what any of us says.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The cadence is something we discuss frequently. We are a very collaborative team and do our best to never sweep anything under the rug (-:

I’m curious as to what these discussions are like. When you are having these discussions, does it ever come up that many people are vigorously opposed to it? Or is it the impression of the team that the current cadence is both popular and desired? If so, do you have any metrics to back this up?

Finally, a simple question:

Why are you unwilling to adjust the release cadence? What is the reason that it must continue, no matter what anyone says? Can you at least help us understand that?

everyone keeps bringing up the release schedule even after you have said it is non negotiable this is the best written post expressing our concerns and questions about it.

At no point did i say it is non negotiable . I said that currently we have no intention of changing the plan, however if we feel that we cannot reach the quality bar we and the player’s expect under the current cadence then we will evolve to ensure we are giving player’s the best possible experience. We have a lot of areas we can improve in to meet this goal and I personally would like to see us continue to work in improving in these areas.

Note: I have specifically laid out these areas in my posts.

Chris

Thank you for clarifying

Chris Whiteside.6102:

gidorah.4960:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Also please also be aware that there is a lot of judgment around Scarlet when the arc has not completed yet. I agree with many of the points being made at a foundational level but please don’t assume that the direction of the arc is understood by all just yet.

Chris

do you think you can still save the arc from the poor opinions of scarlet? will you continue with scarlet even if the player still hate her? will you ever give us a poll so bobby can stop calling the people who dislike scarlet a small amount?

I think we have learnt a great deal from where we are now with the Scarlet Arc. I won’t talk about future plans for her i am afraid as this goes against the rules i set for this initiative. I appreciate all the feedback in regard to our current story telling foundations and look forward to seeing the game evolve from them.

Chris

fair enough can you give us an in game poll so you can stop calling the people who dislike scarlet a small minority when it seems to be a clear and large majority? Also i’m not sure who’s arms you have to twist but the wvw version of this has had a obvious absence of anet dev’s and the discusion isn’t going as well as it is in here.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Keep in mind that weekends are a thing. Now that we’re all back in the office, caffeinated and ready to go, we’re gonna jump back in the threads.

Having said that, when you guys get going and are having good discussions, we sit back and make sure we give you guys room to debate/discuss. Just because there isn’t a dev response every X posts, it doesn’t mean we’re not watching the thread.

weird the other 2 threads the dev’s have had no problem posting throughout the week. Maybe you can read the other collaborative development threads see the amount of interaction and see why people think the wvw is being ignored.

minbariguy.7504:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

We are committed to quality not quantity.

Perhaps it would have been more accurate if I’d stated that you were prioritizing release dates over quality. I get that you guys have every intention to release quality content. You’re all very passionate and committed to what you do, and you obviously want to create things that people enjoy.

However, allow me to make an observation. I’ve noticed that when you discuss future content or features (other than Living Story), you never commit to a release date. My understanding was that this is because game design can be unpredictable: things change, features may not work exactly as you intended, bugs may pop up, or it may simply take more time to polish a feature for release than you intended. And you don’t want to release content before it is ready, hence…you never commit to a release date.

Except for when it comes to Living Story.

Suddenly, every two weeks, just like clockwork, there it is. Right on schedule. How, then, can it be that your priority is on the quality of the release, when you are committed to releasing it on a specific date no matter what?

If you are saying that you now have the ability to make sure that content is ready by a specific date, then surely you have the ability to commit to dates for all your releases (not just Living Story). But of course, we know that this isn’t the case.

So while you may want quality, it certainly isn’t your priority. It can’t be. Not on a specific release schedule. It’s impossible.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

This said there is a lot we can and are doing to meet concerns regarding the cadence and really polish the positives we have already achieved in this area.

I would be really interested to know what you guys are doing to meet my concerns regarding the cadence. Because I honestly have no idea how you can do that while simultaneously stating that the cadence will continue unaltered no matter what any of us says.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The cadence is something we discuss frequently. We are a very collaborative team and do our best to never sweep anything under the rug (-:

I’m curious as to what these discussions are like. When you are having these discussions, does it ever come up that many people are vigorously opposed to it? Or is it the impression of the team that the current cadence is both popular and desired? If so, do you have any metrics to back this up?

Finally, a simple question:

Why are you unwilling to adjust the release cadence? What is the reason that it must continue, no matter what anyone says? Can you at least help us understand that?

everyone keeps bringing up the release schedule even after you have said it is non negotiable this is the best written post expressing our concerns and questions about it.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Also please also be aware that there is a lot of judgment around Scarlet when the arc has not completed yet. I agree with many of the points being made at a foundational level but please don’t assume that the direction of the arc is understood by all just yet.

Chris

do you think you can still save the arc from the poor opinions of scarlet? will you continue with scarlet even if the player still hate her? will you ever give us a poll so bobby can stop calling the people who dislike scarlet a small amount?

Nike.2631:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I am now going to take the family out for some swimming and some lunch and if i get time will get back into discussing these areas before tomorrow. If i don’t get the time today then i will pick it up tomorrow.

Thanks all,

Chris

Out of all the things to come out of this thread, I don’t think it’s possible to overstate the direct usefulness and indirect community building going on by simply leaving us these notes saying “Out for a bit, talk to you soon.”

We spend a lot of time completely in the dark about if you saw stuff and whether we’ll ever see a Dev post in that particular thread again. Right now I know I can spend time marshaling my thoughts and reasonably expect to have them at least glanced at by continuing to post them here. Because you left a note on the door. Its simple. But its also POWERFUL.

Thank you. Sincerely.

I think he just misjudged the amount of time it would take to have this discussion and has been freeing up his time when he realized it. However juxtapose it with the wvw version of this thread and you will see how much of an effort the living world dev’s have been making as they could very well have just visited the thread once and never come back.

OfTheDunes.2307:

gidorah.4960:

BrotherBelial.3094:
I’ve never done that event as I’m not a big fan of Orr. Maybe I was not being as creative as I first thought.

you really need to do the balthazar event then. it is almost exactly what you describe. maybe someone reading this is in a big guild and can help you out. while i think the game could use more events like it it is sometimes hard to find 100+ people who want to do it now that you don’t need balthazaar for legendaries. it would work great with the current living story model though as tons of people would rush to do it the first few weeks and it wouldnt sit unused for a long time. although with how buggy balthazar was i don’t know that the living story format would give them enough time to test it before they released it and it would be terrible if a bunch of servers couldnt complete it because of a bugged event in the midle of the chain or bad npc behavior.

Maybe it’s the problem with Orr (which I don’t like either for that reason) that you never get the 100+ people to do such an epic quest. But there is another example how it can work in the Traumanova Reactor – the quest with the hidden steam-ogre – you can do it daily, because you need only one person who takes the DE for getting the key, then all other people can do it. This should work in LS to: A special longer quest-row, done by one or a small group of “expert-players” and when its done, all players that are present can connect. That’s already working.

In the LS, the event-boss then should scale, depending on how many players participate. But the achievement should not scale depending on the number of players, but be a percentage of expenses (quests) the single player did to take part.

So profi-players, who did the preparatory work, get their “epic medal” and also casual players, who only slated the end-boss, get some gimmik for fun.

To get things not to buggy, they should be not too complicated. What matters is not, that the event is very complicated and lasts as long as possible, but to have as long as possible fun with playing it.

Maybe you get more fun with several smaller DEs, playable with smaller groups.

i think its more a problem with the rewards. when the reward was unique it was still done despite the difficulty when they introduced obsidian from other sources even though the sources where not as efficient it stopped being done by most server’s . it is hard coordinating a bunch of players and there isn’t much more disapointing than doing your part right but having someone else fail theres either because they didn’t read chat to find out what to do or they where griefing. I do my best on tequatl but sometimes people operate turrets who don’t know what they are doing and we fail through no fault of the other 100+ players at the event. I think they can figure that part out though but i don’t think they can do a big epic event chain like balthazar with the living story setup because they won’t have the time to test it for bugs.

Inc.4753:

smitske.4912:

Something I would also like to see in the living story is more branching on choices you made in the past, specifically your order, and the influence of the orders in the living story. Sure we see vigil dudes/whispers agents and priorie scholars in events, but there is no real involvement from the orders, something of which I personally would love to see a lot more. Question is of course would this be best to put in LS or more in something like PS?
Also since so many people complain about the release schedule, I’m fine with it, it is nice to have new things to do every 2 weeks, but they should have a high enough quality and the achies should IMO not be such a meaningless grind

Do you actually want your previous choices to have an impact on your LW experience, or do you just want the Orders to have a larger role? I agree with giving the Orders and the Pact a more signicant role in LW, but I sure don’t want any choices I’ve made during PS to force me into a specific route now. If there actually will be branching content in LW based on the Orders (I’d rather there won’t, but that’s another discussion), at least acknowledge the fact that we are a Commander from the Pact and should be able to choose with which Order we go.

i want the pact choices to have more impact than just skins. but i am also pretty confused by why the pact is investigating the krait obelisks. they seemed to be pretty focused on beating the dragons and where no where to be found in prior updates now all of the sudden they care about scarlet and we have priory there for some unknown reason instead of seraphim investigators since the seraphim literally have a fort right there. There really isn’t any consitency and I would prefer they didnt use the pact for non dragon related things.

BrotherBelial.3094:

I’ve never done that event as I’m not a big fan of Orr. Maybe I was not being as creative as I first thought.

you really need to do the balthazar event then. it is almost exactly what you describe. maybe someone reading this is in a big guild and can help you out. while i think the game could use more events like it it is sometimes hard to find 100+ people who want to do it now that you don’t need balthazaar for legendaries. it would work great with the current living story model though as tons of people would rush to do it the first few weeks and it wouldnt sit unused for a long time. although with how buggy balthazar was i don’t know that the living story format would give them enough time to test it before they released it and it would be terrible if a bunch of servers couldnt complete it because of a bugged event in the midle of the chain or bad npc behavior.

Terrahero.9358:

gidorah.4960:

jalmari.3906:

gidorah.4960:

I don’t mind the changes but i think anet needs to remember they introduced ascended gear and swapping builds just isn’t as easy anymore. once they add ascended armor they really need to think about how to allow us to switch stats on our ascended gear when they break a build.

You bring out good point with ascended gear.

I have my 5 gear sets for my main character. I don’t even have ONE full ascended trinket set and 0 ascended weapons this far.

It makes me sad since in WvW ascended stats do matter, alot.

Now that they introduced this ascended stuff it takes very long time to get even one gear set for one character so it becomes just a gold farming race to be honest if you want to stay at least nearly competitive.

In my opinion problem there is too high cost and time gating.

right they break a build or nerf a weapon so that it is useless for my exotic stuff its no big deal I have the gold to buy a whole new set no problem. I might have preffered to spend the gold on something else but Its well within the reach of most people. If they do it to a build after they introduce ascended armor it will be what a month or 2 to fully gear up a new build? It’s a problem they really need to address.

I completely agree, i’ve said the same thing before when Devon came out and responded to a thread that asked to remove Asc. from WvW. Where Devon said they dont want to “invalidate players time spend”.

Said it then, and you said it now. They invalidate players time spend all the time. By buffing or nerfing professions they can completely invalidate a lot of time and effort spend on gearing for that build.

it would be nice if jonathan sharp would address it here. It is a fixable problem but the first step to fixing it is to recognize it exists. once it takes 2 or 3 months to fully gear up and they then break a build they will have a huge amount of player anger to deal with .