Guild Wars 2

evoRobot.4019:

Nothing is wrong with that. Kudos for Anet for keeping it classy. They are doing new players a generous favor.

For users who bought the game during the duration of the old FAQ contact support.

Easy as peasy.

In doing new players a favor, veterans like myself get left behind. I do not approve of this.

Random.4691:

Why do we need to sacrifice ? Why instead does Anet not have to make a compromise ?

I don’t want $50 worth of stuff. I don’t need financial parity to make up for the money I originally spent 2.5 years ago. I just want something —- anything, really — to recognize my role as a veteran player in helping make GW2 what it is today. A skin? A special mini? Hell, a $10 character slot? I don’t know. Just make a token effort to convince me that the last two-and-a-half years of my GW2 play hasn’t been a massive waste of time and money. Until Anet makes that token effort, I will not be purchasing HoT.

Samnang.1879:

I don’t understand why ANET have to be stubborn about this. Just give veteran players a character slot as a bonus or 1000 gems. Is that so hard to do?

If you’re giving a bonus to new players, give bonus to veteran players too… it’s common sense…

This.

I’m not demanding or expecting $50 in free stuff for a purchase I made almost three years ago. I think it’s quite realistic to expect a little something though. A charadcter slot. A skin for crying out loud. Just something as a “thank you.” Instead? Nothing. Bupkis. And I’m supposed to be okay with this?

Healix.5819:

gryph.8734:

If the core game is free, which Anet has said it is, then new players are getting something for free that I paid for.

The core game + heroic edition was being advertised for $10. The value of just the heroic edition bonuses is $20 in the gem store. The core game by itself is… too cheap to sell.

They should have just repackaged the heroic edition for $10 more, which would have invalidated a lot of these complaints.

The core game is too cheap to sell now and by itself. I get that. But that is why I’d like Anet to throw in something — anything — to give me a sense that the last two-and-a-half years of playing GW2 haven’t been a massive waste of time and money. They need new players. Fine. I get that. I bet they’d also like to keep the players that they have.

Vayne.8563:

uberman.2619:

How recently I bought Guild Wars is irrelevant in this regard. I’m debating if I want to purchase the expansion at all simply because it includes the main game and that adds to the price.

What evidence do you have that the original game adds to the price? Because I’ve been led to understand that it didn’t raise the price.

Follow my reasoning here, Vayne. If the core game is free, which Anet has said it is, then new players are getting something for free that I paid for. This is why I feel I am being devalued as a veteran. You are as always free to disagree. But I do believe this will have an impact on the bottom line. Legalities aside, it just looks bad.

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Vayne.8563:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Tirien.1326:

gryph.8734:

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Why would you even pay 60$ for the base game? You can get the base game for 20$

You won’t have that option when HoT goes live. Early adopters will end up paying about $100 for the same content that the new players get for $50.

If i buy WoW today i won’t have to pay what someone that bought every expansion on release would have to pay. If i bought a brand new computer today, mark my words within 3 months the price will have gone down, that does NOT mean i will get my money that i supposedly “lost” back.

I do think however within 30 days it’s reasonable to get your money back, so you can buy hot, but you will lose your account. Resonable and fair.

But to believe that you will get back money from 3 years ago, you are living in a dreamworld and have little to no experience. And to believe that somehow just because you bought the game 3 years ago, you wil get the expansion for free.

I mean what’s going on here? WoW has sub fee’s and still people buy their expansion and there’s not any bs over there, yet in Gw2 a game you can play how much you want for a reasonable price it get’s torn to pieces?

Something is wrong here.

I don’t want money back that I spent three years ago! I want a feeling that I am getting value for my money. Since I don’t feel that I am, I will not be purchasing HoT until I do. In order for that to happen, something will have to change. I’m not sure exactly what, but this is where I stand.

Good don’t purchase it. I’m sure your attitude is shared by a percentage of people but I’m not convinced it’s a big enough percentage to make a difference. But I’m happy with you not purchasing it. Doesn’t stop me from feeling you’re completely unreasonable.

That is understandable, your unreasonable positions would make it more likely for you to see others as unreasonable.

The most accurate statement said in all these threads was earlier in this thread.

they won’t get my $50 until such time as I believe I am getting sufficient value for my money

And I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with someone stating old players are getting screwed in their title, when in fact not all old players feel that way. It’s an attack, its’ unwarranted and the thread should be closed. If people can’t write their opinions in a manner with less vitriol, then they shouldn’t be allowed out in public.

Well I guess if “I want value for my money” is vitriolic to you…I am at a loss for words.

Actually I was referring to the title of the thread we’re in. That IS vitriolic. If you can’t see the vitriol in the player base in this situation there isn’t much to talk about. Hell there was a thread on reddit that asked for the resignation of an employee by name.

Please note: I haven’t called for the resignation or termination of any Anet employees. Nor will I. I have not said I am walking away from GW2. At this point, I am not, though of course I reserve the right to do so should things change for the worse. I have not even done an OP on this subject. It’d probably just get merged anyhow.

It’s frustrating on one level for me, but it’s not beyond repair. I know I’m asking for something that is within Anet’s ability to give. I don’t even really care how they do it. I want value for my money and knowledge that they value me as someone who has been playing this game since very close to the beginning. That’s all.

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Tirien.1326:

gryph.8734:

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Why would you even pay 60$ for the base game? You can get the base game for 20$

You won’t have that option when HoT goes live. Early adopters will end up paying about $100 for the same content that the new players get for $50.

If i buy WoW today i won’t have to pay what someone that bought every expansion on release would have to pay. If i bought a brand new computer today, mark my words within 3 months the price will have gone down, that does NOT mean i will get my money that i supposedly “lost” back.

I do think however within 30 days it’s reasonable to get your money back, so you can buy hot, but you will lose your account. Resonable and fair.

But to believe that you will get back money from 3 years ago, you are living in a dreamworld and have little to no experience. And to believe that somehow just because you bought the game 3 years ago, you wil get the expansion for free.

I mean what’s going on here? WoW has sub fee’s and still people buy their expansion and there’s not any bs over there, yet in Gw2 a game you can play how much you want for a reasonable price it get’s torn to pieces?

Something is wrong here.

I don’t want money back that I spent three years ago! I want a feeling that I am getting value for my money. Since I don’t feel that I am, I will not be purchasing HoT until I do. In order for that to happen, something will have to change. I’m not sure exactly what, but this is where I stand.

Good don’t purchase it. I’m sure your attitude is shared by a percentage of people but I’m not convinced it’s a big enough percentage to make a difference. But I’m happy with you not purchasing it. Doesn’t stop me from feeling you’re completely unreasonable.

I don’t know if you work for Anet or not. Sometimes I think it sure looks like you do. Regardless, given the grumbling over at Reddit and the exposure this problem has been getting in gaming websites, I am of the opinion that Anet ignores me and others like me at their peril. When it’s unreasonable for a player to want value for their money, that is how games die.

This wasn’t nearly as big as the ascended debacle and they went ahead with that.

Okay. And they’ll go ahead with this. And I won’t buy it unless and until something changes. I’m not sure in what universe that’s unreasonable. Oh well.

Vayne.8563:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Tirien.1326:

gryph.8734:

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Why would you even pay 60$ for the base game? You can get the base game for 20$

You won’t have that option when HoT goes live. Early adopters will end up paying about $100 for the same content that the new players get for $50.

If i buy WoW today i won’t have to pay what someone that bought every expansion on release would have to pay. If i bought a brand new computer today, mark my words within 3 months the price will have gone down, that does NOT mean i will get my money that i supposedly “lost” back.

I do think however within 30 days it’s reasonable to get your money back, so you can buy hot, but you will lose your account. Resonable and fair.

But to believe that you will get back money from 3 years ago, you are living in a dreamworld and have little to no experience. And to believe that somehow just because you bought the game 3 years ago, you wil get the expansion for free.

I mean what’s going on here? WoW has sub fee’s and still people buy their expansion and there’s not any bs over there, yet in Gw2 a game you can play how much you want for a reasonable price it get’s torn to pieces?

Something is wrong here.

I don’t want money back that I spent three years ago! I want a feeling that I am getting value for my money. Since I don’t feel that I am, I will not be purchasing HoT until I do. In order for that to happen, something will have to change. I’m not sure exactly what, but this is where I stand.

Good don’t purchase it. I’m sure your attitude is shared by a percentage of people but I’m not convinced it’s a big enough percentage to make a difference. But I’m happy with you not purchasing it. Doesn’t stop me from feeling you’re completely unreasonable.

That is understandable, your unreasonable positions would make it more likely for you to see others as unreasonable.

The most accurate statement said in all these threads was earlier in this thread.

they won’t get my $50 until such time as I believe I am getting sufficient value for my money

And I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with someone stating old players are getting screwed in their title, when in fact not all old players feel that way. It’s an attack, its’ unwarranted and the thread should be closed. If people can’t write their opinions in a manner with less vitriol, then they shouldn’t be allowed out in public.

Well I guess if “I want value for my money” is vitriolic to you…I am at a loss for words.

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Tirien.1326:

gryph.8734:

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Why would you even pay 60$ for the base game? You can get the base game for 20$

You won’t have that option when HoT goes live. Early adopters will end up paying about $100 for the same content that the new players get for $50.

If i buy WoW today i won’t have to pay what someone that bought every expansion on release would have to pay. If i bought a brand new computer today, mark my words within 3 months the price will have gone down, that does NOT mean i will get my money that i supposedly “lost” back.

I do think however within 30 days it’s reasonable to get your money back, so you can buy hot, but you will lose your account. Resonable and fair.

But to believe that you will get back money from 3 years ago, you are living in a dreamworld and have little to no experience. And to believe that somehow just because you bought the game 3 years ago, you wil get the expansion for free.

I mean what’s going on here? WoW has sub fee’s and still people buy their expansion and there’s not any bs over there, yet in Gw2 a game you can play how much you want for a reasonable price it get’s torn to pieces?

Something is wrong here.

I don’t want money back that I spent three years ago! I want a feeling that I am getting value for my money. Since I don’t feel that I am, I will not be purchasing HoT until I do. In order for that to happen, something will have to change. I’m not sure exactly what, but this is where I stand.

Good don’t purchase it. I’m sure your attitude is shared by a percentage of people but I’m not convinced it’s a big enough percentage to make a difference. But I’m happy with you not purchasing it. Doesn’t stop me from feeling you’re completely unreasonable.

I don’t know if you work for Anet or not. Sometimes I think it sure looks like you do. Regardless, given the grumbling over at Reddit and the exposure this problem has been getting in gaming websites, I am of the opinion that Anet ignores me and others like me at their peril. When it’s unreasonable for a player to want value for their money, that is how games die.

Tirien.1326:

gryph.8734:

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Why would you even pay 60$ for the base game? You can get the base game for 20$

You won’t have that option when HoT goes live. Early adopters will end up paying about $100 for the same content that the new players get for $50.

If i buy WoW today i won’t have to pay what someone that bought every expansion on release would have to pay. If i bought a brand new computer today, mark my words within 3 months the price will have gone down, that does NOT mean i will get my money that i supposedly “lost” back.

I do think however within 30 days it’s reasonable to get your money back, so you can buy hot, but you will lose your account. Resonable and fair.

But to believe that you will get back money from 3 years ago, you are living in a dreamworld and have little to no experience. And to believe that somehow just because you bought the game 3 years ago, you wil get the expansion for free.

I mean what’s going on here? WoW has sub fee’s and still people buy their expansion and there’s not any bs over there, yet in Gw2 a game you can play how much you want for a reasonable price it get’s torn to pieces?

Something is wrong here.

I don’t want money back that I spent three years ago! I want a feeling that I am getting value for my money. Since I don’t feel that I am, I will not be purchasing HoT until I do. In order for that to happen, something will have to change. I’m not sure exactly what, but this is where I stand.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Why would you even pay 60$ for the base game? You can get the base game for 20$

You won’t have that option when HoT goes live. Early adopters will end up paying about $100 for the same content that the new players get for $50.

MMOGamer.6175:

zenleto.6179:

All I can say is that some veterans don’t like it for whatever reason, others do, and still others don’t really care. Don’t know what the split is but it makes having any sort of decent discussion difficult.

Because IMO Anet “devalued” overnight the “value” of the core game owned by “veterans” to nothing while saying at the same time it added “value” to the deal for new players.

There is an appearance here that Anet sacrificed GW2’s veterans in a blatant and ethically turbid attempt to rope in new players. I say “ethically turbid” because we were assured for months that HoT would require the core game. I get that they’re allowing for a limited form of refund, but for players like myself who bought the game two-and-a-half years ago, we’re out in the cold.

Yes, most of the new game mechanics are coming in a free patch. Yes, you can get a refund if you purchased the game within the last 30 days. Yes yes yes. I get all that. Those are all reasons for me to delay my purchase of HoT indefinitely. I want to see what, if anything, Anet will do in response to this player outcry.

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

I have no recourse. I can not request a refund. And even if I could, all the money I spent on gems would be POOF. Gone. So whatevs. If you’re trying to get me to change my mind about purchasing HoT because my feelings are somehow wrong on this matter, gg. It didn’t work.

How long ago did you buy the game? And the gems don’t go poof. I’m pretty sure they can just refund you now without closing the account.

I’ve played since early October 2012. About the time they reinstituted digital sales. Oh no. If a refund were an option, no way in h**l am I giving up two-and-a-half years of in-game effort. It’s moot, anyhow. I’m wayyyyyy outside the 30 day window. I have no gems that haven’t been spent, and besides which, my last gem purchase was easily a couple of months ago.

Shrugs, yeah that’s too long a time to get a refund, but having played the game for 2.5 years I wouldn’t even think you’re entitled to one. The only people I think would be entitled are people who bought GW 2 after they FAQ for HoT went up.

Then you’re completely missing the point. I don’t give a greasy brown crap about a refund. I want economic parity. That’s all. I want to feel like I’m getting value for my hard-earned $50, which at this point I do not. Until I’m satisfied that I’m not being sacrificed as a veteran in favor of new players, I’m just not buying HoT. And I reserve the right to re-evaluate other aspects of my customer relationship with Anet in the future.

You don’t get to have economic parity with a game EVER. Period. Most games that are two years old sell for a fraction of what they sell for and some don’t sell at all, and are included in later versions of the game. There is no economic parity.

In my opinion, what you want is simply not reasonable, at least within the MMO genre.

You’re absolutely right. Anet is under no obligation to provide me with a sense of economic parity. And I am under no obligation to spend $50 to purchase their expansion. Especially not with the large amount of patching which will be taking place on the 23rd. I’m glad you and I see eye-to-eye on this. I just hope that the grumbling over at Reddit doesn’t portend bad things for Anet. I really do like GW2 and I really would like to keep on playing. I’m not going to if it stops being fun.

Well if your fun depends on economic parity it’s your own lookout. Don’t buy the game. I’ll be playing it and probably having a ball. Can’t wait to glide.

Say hi to all the new players who got the core game for nothing for me.

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

I have no recourse. I can not request a refund. And even if I could, all the money I spent on gems would be POOF. Gone. So whatevs. If you’re trying to get me to change my mind about purchasing HoT because my feelings are somehow wrong on this matter, gg. It didn’t work.

How long ago did you buy the game? And the gems don’t go poof. I’m pretty sure they can just refund you now without closing the account.

I’ve played since early October 2012. About the time they reinstituted digital sales. Oh no. If a refund were an option, no way in h**l am I giving up two-and-a-half years of in-game effort. It’s moot, anyhow. I’m wayyyyyy outside the 30 day window. I have no gems that haven’t been spent, and besides which, my last gem purchase was easily a couple of months ago.

Shrugs, yeah that’s too long a time to get a refund, but having played the game for 2.5 years I wouldn’t even think you’re entitled to one. The only people I think would be entitled are people who bought GW 2 after they FAQ for HoT went up.

Then you’re completely missing the point. I don’t give a greasy brown crap about a refund. I want economic parity. That’s all. I want to feel like I’m getting value for my hard-earned $50, which at this point I do not. Until I’m satisfied that I’m not being sacrificed as a veteran in favor of new players, I’m just not buying HoT. And I reserve the right to re-evaluate other aspects of my customer relationship with Anet in the future.

You don’t get to have economic parity with a game EVER. Period. Most games that are two years old sell for a fraction of what they sell for and some don’t sell at all, and are included in later versions of the game. There is no economic parity.

In my opinion, what you want is simply not reasonable, at least within the MMO genre.

You’re absolutely right. Anet is under no obligation to provide me with a sense of economic parity. And I am under no obligation to spend $50 to purchase their expansion. Especially not with the large amount of patching which will be taking place on the 23rd. I’m glad you and I see eye-to-eye on this. I just hope that the grumbling over at Reddit doesn’t portend bad things for Anet. I really do like GW2 and I really would like to keep on playing. I’m not going to if it stops being fun.

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

I have no recourse. I can not request a refund. And even if I could, all the money I spent on gems would be POOF. Gone. So whatevs. If you’re trying to get me to change my mind about purchasing HoT because my feelings are somehow wrong on this matter, gg. It didn’t work.

How long ago did you buy the game? And the gems don’t go poof. I’m pretty sure they can just refund you now without closing the account.

I’ve played since early October 2012. About the time they reinstituted digital sales. Oh no. If a refund were an option, no way in h**l am I giving up two-and-a-half years of in-game effort. It’s moot, anyhow. I’m wayyyyyy outside the 30 day window. I have no gems that haven’t been spent, and besides which, my last gem purchase was easily a couple of months ago.

Shrugs, yeah that’s too long a time to get a refund, but having played the game for 2.5 years I wouldn’t even think you’re entitled to one. The only people I think would be entitled are people who bought GW 2 after they FAQ for HoT went up.

Then you’re completely missing the point. I don’t give a greasy brown crap about a refund. I want economic parity. That’s all. I want to feel like I’m getting value for my hard-earned $50, which at this point I do not. Until I’m satisfied that I’m not being sacrificed as a veteran in favor of new players, I’m just not buying HoT. And I reserve the right to re-evaluate other aspects of my customer relationship with Anet in the future.

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

I have no recourse. I can not request a refund. And even if I could, all the money I spent on gems would be POOF. Gone. So whatevs. If you’re trying to get me to change my mind about purchasing HoT because my feelings are somehow wrong on this matter, gg. It didn’t work.

How long ago did you buy the game? And the gems don’t go poof. I’m pretty sure they can just refund you now without closing the account.

I’ve played since early October 2012. About the time they reinstituted digital sales. Oh no. If a refund were an option, no way in h**l am I giving up two-and-a-half years of in-game effort. It’s moot, anyhow. I’m wayyyyyy outside the 30 day window. I have no gems that haven’t been spent, and besides which, my last gem purchase was easily a couple of months ago.

warbignime.4610:

gryph.8734:

I have no recourse. I can not request a refund. And even if I could, all the money I spent on gems would be POOF. Gone. So whatevs. If you’re trying to get me to change my mind about purchasing HoT because my feelings are somehow wrong on this matter, gg. It didn’t work.

It is your own problem for not keeping recourse, also gem can be refunded if purchased within 30 days. No one cares if you want to buy the expansion or not.

Au contraire. None of my fellow forum commenters may care, but I think it is to Anet’s advantage to get as many people to buy the expansion as possible. If they really don’t want my money, they don’t need to do anything. They’ll be happy and we can call it a win-win situation. I can’t imagine that would be the case, but I’ve made my gripes known in this matter. If Anet continues to show a willingness to sacrifice my concerns as a veteran for new players, I may re-evaluate my decision to keep playing and purchasing gems for the core game as well.

I have no recourse. I can not request a refund. And even if I could, all the money I spent on gems would be POOF. Gone. So whatevs. If you’re trying to get me to change my mind about purchasing HoT because my feelings are somehow wrong on this matter, gg. It didn’t work.

Kentaine.4692:

Everyone is a winner, even the losers. That’s what the generation before me decided for my generation, remember? Of course Anet’s and/or NCsoft’s marketing division deserves praise for this decision! How else would they feel pretty without their blue ribbon?

I’ll buy the new standalone game GW2:HoT … when it inevitably goes on sale for $30 or $40. Heck, the game might be released in time for Black Friday specials and only be $10-$20 instead. It’s definitely worth it then.

Ugh. That might be a few months. But that would probably do it for me. I’m kind of hoping that Anet resolves this before the general release though.

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Jordo.5913:

….is pretty fine to me.

Look at all the things we are getting with HoT.

- Elite Specializations
- New weapon for each class
- New post level 80 leveling system
- Rumored 5 new zones with 3 “sub-sections”
- 2 Zones dedicated to Guild Halls
- Guild Halls
- New Class
- New WvW Map
- Various new WvW mechanics
- New sPvP Map
- New sPvP Mode
- New Confirmed Challenging Content

Then later on down the road….you’ll get Living World Season 3 and 4, if we assume that it’ll be 2 season between each expac. You also get more feature packs, and more balance patches. You could sink hours upon hours into this expansion.

That is awesome for just 50.00

Does it suck that only new players really get a bonus item? Sure, but that doesn’t mean the price of the expac should change for us veteran players.

I do think a character slot would be a reasonable bonus to veteran players though.

Let me reiterate here: I did not get the core game for free. New players get the core game for free. Can you attempt a better explanation at why I should be okay with this? I might be a little less miffed if I actually thought I was getting some kind of value for my money. Instead, it looks like Anet expects me to forget that I ever spent money to purchase their software in the first place!

Where you mad when the core game was on sale for $10?

I winced, but I didn’t feel like I was getting hosed or lied to. Now I do. My perception of this whole sad situation is that Anet is seeking to cater to new players at the expense of veterans. That is why until my issues are sufficiently addressed, I will not be purchasing HoT at all.

You winced, because something that was in an MMO came down in price. Then the fault is yours, because virtually all computer games come down in price and some are eventually free. ESO was pay to play and charged a sub for a year. SWToR charged a sub. People paid $15 a month until they went free to play. Some games like Lotro and DDO were originally games you bought that had a sub they went completely free. So new players got in free.

If you buy Wow now, you only have to buy the current expansion and you get all the expansions in between, you guessed it, for free.

I bought games when they came out, and a year later they’re on steam for 3.99.

You can feel bad about it if you like, but if you’re going to allow that $10 difference to go from wincing to betrayal, you’re not paying attention to the market.

Perception of value is a thing, Vayne. It’s an important thing. Whether I paid $10 or $50 or $90 on a collector’s edition, that doesn’t change the fact that by Anet’s own admission, the new players are getting something free that I paid good money for after being told for months that we needed the core game in order to access the HoT expansion.

Now I could be like many other players and point out how dishonest this seems. I could also be like some others who have claimed this is a form of illegal bait-and-switch tactics. Honestly, I don’t care about any of that. I want to feel like I am getting something for my money that somehow puts me on a level of economic parity with the new players who will pay half of what I’d end up paying for the exact same content. I know this is not beyond Anet’s ability to handle. I also know they’ve done an extremely poor job of handling this so far. So be it.

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Jordo.5913:

….is pretty fine to me.

Look at all the things we are getting with HoT.

- Elite Specializations
- New weapon for each class
- New post level 80 leveling system
- Rumored 5 new zones with 3 “sub-sections”
- 2 Zones dedicated to Guild Halls
- Guild Halls
- New Class
- New WvW Map
- Various new WvW mechanics
- New sPvP Map
- New sPvP Mode
- New Confirmed Challenging Content

Then later on down the road….you’ll get Living World Season 3 and 4, if we assume that it’ll be 2 season between each expac. You also get more feature packs, and more balance patches. You could sink hours upon hours into this expansion.

That is awesome for just 50.00

Does it suck that only new players really get a bonus item? Sure, but that doesn’t mean the price of the expac should change for us veteran players.

I do think a character slot would be a reasonable bonus to veteran players though.

Let me reiterate here: I did not get the core game for free. New players get the core game for free. Can you attempt a better explanation at why I should be okay with this? I might be a little less miffed if I actually thought I was getting some kind of value for my money. Instead, it looks like Anet expects me to forget that I ever spent money to purchase their software in the first place!

Where you mad when the core game was on sale for $10?

I winced, but I didn’t feel like I was getting hosed or lied to. Now I do. My perception of this whole sad situation is that Anet is seeking to cater to new players at the expense of veterans. That is why until my issues are sufficiently addressed, I will not be purchasing HoT at all.

Sekhmet.6153:

I’ve noticed a lot of fans are still under the assumption that some of the features Anet has announced are only for Heart of Thorns, when in fact they will be added as updates to the core game. That may effect some of the perceived value of the expansion.

That core game is still something I paid for, and still something new players are ostensibly getting for free. If I don’t have to pay for the expansion to get these features, that’s one more reason for me to not buy HoT.

Perception of value may not always make sense in concrete mathematical terms, but economics is not a mathematical science.

warbignime.4610:

You could get refunded if you bought the game within one month. Dev will upgrade your account to HoT version without losing progression.

Not what I heard. My understanding is that you lose everything in the process of that refund, including accrued gems and character slots. Then you have to start from scratch with a fresh account and five blank toon slots.

mrstealth.6701:

Cormac.3871:

gryph.8734:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?

So were you complaining when the base game went on sale for ten dollars because you paid five times as much? Look, you have a point here, but don’t try and overstate it.

When it was $10, I wasn’t expected to pay for it again.

Now, I’m being asked to pay for it as part of a bundle, and not even kittening get it.

Or to put it another way, you as a veteran shelled out for what the new players are getting for free. And if you purchased the core game 31 days ago, there’s not a kitten thing you can do about it.

Quiznos.4296:

Well, you both have a point. It is corporate mumbo jumbo, and that’s how the real-world works.

If you feel you need to further discuss HoT + Core inclusion, please stop by https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged/page/92#post5182121

And/or contact support, try for a refund. And then by HoT

I’m not going to ask for a refund for over two-and-a-half years worth of time and money I put into this game. If I ever feel like my concerns with HoT are sufficiently addressed, I would not rule out buying it. I have no intentions of permanently leaving GW2 altogether. That said, I don’t think Anet could have handled this controversy any worse. The silence is deafening.

Vayne.8563:

gryph.8734:

Quiznos.4296:

Gallahad.9834:

So with this new expansion it includes the core game as well as the expansion? So in other words i just paid $60 for GW2 when i could have gotten it AND the expansion for $50 if i had just waited? or is the expansion JUST the expansion and not include the core game?

Per Regina The expansion costs $50. The core game is included as a free gift to new players.

“Just paid $60” how recent is “just paid”
…I’m pretty sure core hasn’t cost $60 within the last year, could be wrong though…
Either way, looks like if you contact support they will refund you up to 30 days(and completely close your account, including the gw1 link of applied); at which point you can pre-purchase HoT, which includes core.

Per arenanet/staff/knights, you would not be buying core at this point, but getting it included with your HoT purchase. It is very important to remember this fact, that core will be given to you, free of charge, valued at $0. Otherwise, you may get upset.

That sounds like semantic corporate mumbo jumbo-babble to me.

sigh

But it’s not corporate mumbo jumbo. If you’ve bought the expansion recently ask for a refund. If you haven’t bought it recently you’ve had time to play it and you’ve gotten money out of it.

I once bought a TV and six months later it was $100 less. Sure, but I was using it for six months.

Welcome to the real world.

Let me explain this to you in real simple terms:

I HAVE NO RECOURSE.

I have been playing GW2 since early October of 2012. Unless and until this problem is solved to my satisfaction, I won’t be buying HoT. Anet made a grave miscalculation in catering to new players at the expensive of veterans, and they won’t get my $50 until such time as I believe I am getting sufficient value for my money.

I can say absolutely and without hesitation that price isn’t the issue for me. Unless and until this issue is handled to my satisfaction, I won’t be purchasing HoT. It’s just that simple.

Cormac.3871:

gryph.8734:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?

So were you complaining when the base game went on sale for ten dollars because you paid five times as much? Look, you have a point here, but don’t try and overstate it.

I winced, but I didn’t feel like I was getting hosed and being lied to. Every MMO I’ve ever played has put their software on sale. I simply don’t understand how pointing out that I paid $50 for something new players will now get for free is “overstatement.” Where I come from, that’s what we call a “mathematically provable fact.”

Quiznos.4296:

Gallahad.9834:

So with this new expansion it includes the core game as well as the expansion? So in other words i just paid $60 for GW2 when i could have gotten it AND the expansion for $50 if i had just waited? or is the expansion JUST the expansion and not include the core game?

Per Regina The expansion costs $50. The core game is included as a free gift to new players.

“Just paid $60” how recent is “just paid”
…I’m pretty sure core hasn’t cost $60 within the last year, could be wrong though…
Either way, looks like if you contact support they will refund you up to 30 days(and completely close your account, including the gw1 link of applied); at which point you can pre-purchase HoT, which includes core.

Per arenanet/staff/knights, you would not be buying core at this point, but getting it included with your HoT purchase. It is very important to remember this fact, that core will be given to you, free of charge, valued at $0. Otherwise, you may get upset.

That sounds like semantic corporate mumbo jumbo-babble to me.

sigh

Jordo.5913:

….is pretty fine to me.

Look at all the things we are getting with HoT.

- Elite Specializations
- New weapon for each class
- New post level 80 leveling system
- Rumored 5 new zones with 3 “sub-sections”
- 2 Zones dedicated to Guild Halls
- Guild Halls
- New Class
- New WvW Map
- Various new WvW mechanics
- New sPvP Map
- New sPvP Mode
- New Confirmed Challenging Content

Then later on down the road….you’ll get Living World Season 3 and 4, if we assume that it’ll be 2 season between each expac. You also get more feature packs, and more balance patches. You could sink hours upon hours into this expansion.

That is awesome for just 50.00

Does it suck that only new players really get a bonus item? Sure, but that doesn’t mean the price of the expac should change for us veteran players.

I do think a character slot would be a reasonable bonus to veteran players though.

Let me reiterate here: I did not get the core game for free. New players get the core game for free. Can you attempt a better explanation at why I should be okay with this? I might be a little less miffed if I actually thought I was getting some kind of value for my money. Instead, it looks like Anet expects me to forget that I ever spent money to purchase their software in the first place!

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?

Add my voice to the chorus of discontent. I was with this game since about a month after it came out, just after the online sales were suspended and reinstituded. Two-and-a-half years. And guess how much I paid for the core game? That’s right. $49.99 USD. Am I wrong to feel like I’m being punished for being an early adopter?

Tachenon.5270:

anzenketh.3759:

Badlatitude.4309:

The misconception is the devs believing their new system isn’t a broken POS.
.

Did you read the red posts in this thread. They know it is broken and not working as designed. They want to fix it before the next scheduled patch.

Curious how they managed to deliver something that isn’t working as intended after all the time they say they spent testing it.

That’s every expansion/content push to every MMO that’s ever existed. Even if Anet is a bunch of screw-ups, which I don’t think they are, there’s nothing unusual or extraordinary about that.

Brother Grimm.5176:

gryph.8734:

Brother Grimm.5176:

I tend to think an HONEST opinion from anyone at Anet on EXACTLY how any established player (of any age or mental ability) would react to these “changes” (the prior TRAIT changes from FP1 included) would be quite informative.

There is NO WAY any intelligent person could not see that 90% of existing players are going to look at all these leveling changes in a negative light (and it’s NOT just because they are “different”). Presenting the changes with the banner, “A Fresh Start”, is propaganda and hyperbole at it’s worst.

A simple, “We’re sorry, this was forced on us too.” reply would go a long way for me….

The irony of claiming that any intelligent person would automatically assume 90% of GW2 players will hate this, and then making a reference to “hyperbole at its worst” is lost on you, isn’kitten

Negative is not equal to hate…..I don’t “hate” ALL the changes but some of them are just BAD and overall, I would think anything that makes an existing player NOT want to start an ALT is not GOOD or POSITIVE…..agreed?

Show me ONE existing player that thinks ALL these changes are for the better….just one.

I’m neutral on most of them, as the “new player experience” doesn’t apply to me or most of my toons. I could most likely dig up quite a few players who are indifferent and have no intention of quitting in a huff. It doesn’t matter. Anet didn’t make these decisions in a vacuum, and time will tell if they are beneficial to what Anet wants to accomplish as a business. When the game stops being fun, I’ll stop playing. Until then, I won’t. And there are absolutely others who feel the same way I do. Most of them just don’t have the desire to form adversarial relationships in an internet forum.

Lodius.5392:

Of course metrics tell a story. Here is one.

Enjoyability of GW2 after 9/9

You mean that’s how much you enjoy GW2 after 9/9.

Brother Grimm.5176:

I tend to think an HONEST opinion from anyone at Anet on EXACTLY how any established player (of any age or mental ability) would react to these “changes” (the prior TRAIT changes from FP1 included) would be quite informative.

There is NO WAY any intelligent person could not see that 90% of existing players are going to look at all these leveling changes in a negative light (and it’s NOT just because they are “different”). Presenting the changes with the banner, “A Fresh Start”, is propaganda and hyperbole at it’s worst.

A simple, “We’re sorry, this was forced on us too.” reply would go a long way for me….

The irony of claiming that any intelligent person would automatically assume 90% of GW2 players will hate this, and then making a reference to “hyperbole at its worst” is lost on you, isn’kitten

Tachenon.5270:

gryph.8734:

So my challenge stands. If you think you and your buddies can design a better game and make a go of it financially, go right ahead.

Your ‘challenge’ is so old and tired and downright silly that you should get a 50 DKP minus for using it. Heck, 350! By using it, you demonstrate that you are bereft of any valid argument.

One need not be a chef de cuisine to know that if the crème brûlée smells like a litter box that hasn’t been cleaned in a week, there’s probably something wrong with it.

But if one has never made a good creme brulee and can not make one any better than that, you’ll get laughed right out of the kitchen for cussing out the chef.

tigirius.9014:

Guhracie.3419:

Actually, it takes you to the exchange section, where you can exchange your gems for gold, or your gold for gems. And “pay to win” doesn’t mean what you seem to think it means.

So long as Sigils/Runes are bought with gold in an ever inflating AH, and gear doesn’t have the option to be elastic, yeah I’d say he has a point about the P2W. If they want this game to have an easy system of switching builds they’ll need to remove certain aspects from the gold market, like traits for example. They DO have another currency, it’s called Karma and many people have pointed out that there simply aren’t enough sinks for Karma. They could easily make Karma the key currency for progression 100% eliminating the need to buy gems for gold for the use of buying traits and seting up gear or changing gear because of a balance patch nerf.

Sounds good, except for the fact that without a way to trade gems for gold and vice versa, you will almost certainly see a gigantic uptick in illicit gold selling and the account hacking/theft that goes along with it.

BlackGhostz.2483:

Who seriously cares? Some people would rather spend not even a day or two of pay rather than spend weeks of farming just to say they got something for free. Which in reality you just wasted weeks of your time.

And it’s not pay to win because there is nothing to win in this game. All the rewards are cosmetic.

I kind of have to zap you on that one, BG. Not entirely true, though it is for the most part. Some gem store items are quite functional, such as the permanent gathering tools, the copper- and silver-fed salvage-o-matics, and the items that allow you to change your character’s name and appearance. Anyhow, it can not be stressed enough, if you save up enough gems by purchasing them with in-game gold, you can theoretically get anything from the gem shop without spending a single penny of real money.

Labjax.2465:

The main problem I have always had with the kind of people you’re describing is that they don’t make any effort to actually explain what they’re shouting about.

All it ever does is upset people and make them go, “Why in the heck should I listen to you?”

If they were really out to communicate effectively, they would explain their position, i.e. “It would be ideal if you play a different spec – rifle has been proven to do poor damage, compared to other options. I suggest you try XYZ build instead.”

But I think a lot of these people have no idea how to communicate effectively. They just want an accuse to rage at someone. Also keep in mind that a good portion of people who do pugs are probably in pugs precisely because they don’t mix well with others. I’m not saying it’s all of them – there are plenty of reasons to pug that have nothing to do with social skills – but I think the trend is there.

If you have the time commitment and the interest in it, running with a guild is nearly always going to be a more pleasant environment. Unfortunately, some of us just don’t want to manage that commitment for whatever reason.

Personally, I find PuGs to be an execrably maddening waste of time. You might get lucky every once in a great while and find a good one, but I belong to an excellent guild and I can’t really think of any reason I would pick a PuG over the particular guild I’m in given the choice.

cranked.3812:

gryph.8734:

scerevisiae.1972:

Metrics are only good when the right things are measured and the right conclusions drawn. Otherwise they just paint the wrong picture.

Word on the street is that Anet management are overly obsessed with their graphite dashboards and the continued misreading of same is why the game continues its march into mediocrity.

If you can do any better, give it a try. Make a game and see how many people you can get to play it. See if you can put enough financing into it to make it financially viable for one year, let-alone the two that GW2 has already existed for. Go ahead. Try it. I’ll wait.

This is the worst argument I ever see to threads like this. You don’t have to be able to poor hundreds of thousands of dollars into a game and/or be able to design one to see how bad or good a game is. All you have to do is play it. Stop acting like people have to be able to create a better game in order to critique the one they are playing.

How good or bad a game is, that’s your opinion as a player. But you bet your sweet kitten there are objective measures of a game’s success as a business that most of us have not the foggiest clue about. Your denial of that fact makes it no less true. So my challenge stands. If you think you and your buddies can design a better game and make a go of it financially, go right ahead.

Stonecaduceus.5638:

The end has come for me as well.
Between Fractured which was a giantkittento the fractal community and the complete fail way precursors and “legendaries” have been handled, my interest always waned. With this new insulting alt killing “feature pack” and the same ole boring content I’ve played for 2 years, enough is enough. Hope you new guys enjoy the game a while before you are struck with the reality of what this game will likely never become.

Good luck and Godspeed.

Kobi Beef.3895:

Nokaru.7831:

There are people who don’t know that you can trade gems for gold. Gold seller prey on this ignorance. This button being there is a good thing.

Your basically doing the same thing, buying gold instead of earning it.

…but the exchange fluctuates the cost either way so as to be less disruptive to the game’s economy. Having the option to do this is actually one of the things I like about GW2 even though I’ve only used it quite sparingly.

scerevisiae.1972:

Metrics are only good when the right things are measured and the right conclusions drawn. Otherwise they just paint the wrong picture.

Word on the street is that Anet management are overly obsessed with their graphite dashboards and the continued misreading of same is why the game continues its march into mediocrity.

If you can do any better, give it a try. Make a game and see how many people you can get to play it. See if you can put enough financing into it to make it financially viable for one year, let-alone the two that GW2 has already existed for. Go ahead. Try it. I’ll wait.

voidwater.2064:

I think the art, combat, and game world are excellent. The ‘core’ of the game, that was mostly in place at launch, was great.

However, with an MMO, there’s often an expectation of content growth/expansion.

The game doesn’t feel like it’s really expanded that much. In a sense it feels like many of the updates are “running in place”, remixing old content or adding new systems around existing content, instead of truly expanding the game.

I would’ve liked to see more new combat additions (e.g. new skills, traits, weapon types, classes). I would’ve liked to see more permanent maps (new continents!) and dungeons added in 2 years. The PvP modes and “high end” instanced PvE still feel neglected.

I think the devs made mistakes from an opportunity cost perspective, in the features/content they chose to develop.

For some reason, I’ve long suspected that the development team is significantly understaffed…

…as opposed to more established companies like Blizzard? Almost definitely understaffed. But I think one can also look at this as a matter of expectations. Anet wanted to do something different. Some players — I dunno how many — apparently want GW2 to be more like other MMOs. Never the twain shall meet be-twixt.

scerevisiae.1972:

Vayne.8563:

Anet is improving the game based on data they have that we don’t. Why would we have that data.

Anet needs to communicate why they do thinks better. I think that’s very important. I see this as by far their biggest weakness.

As the saying goes: if you make a game any idiot can play, only idiots will end up playing it.

I’m toughing it out. And I’ve been in it since pretty close to the beginning. Make of that whatever you will.

Porterhouse.6304:

gryph.8734:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

gryph.8734:

To all those leaving: Don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

Good attitude. Empty mega server eventually must be your cup of tea.

I’d be concerned if I really thought that was going to happen. As I don’t think that’s the road GW2 is going on…

Remember back when you said that you didn’t think there would be any server merges (IE megaserver) either?

gryph.8734:

This forum isn’t representative of the entire population of GW2 players!

But, do you think that you are?

I don’t recall ever saying anything here or elsewhere about server merges/megaservers. In fact, within the confines of my guild chat I distinctly remember saying that I didn’t know if it was technically feasible, but if it was I hoped they would. And they did. And I was happy.

Are you sure you don’t have me confused with someone else?

As for my thoughts on metrics, demographics, and who can or can’t claim to speak for the GW2 community or larger playerbase, I know it’s not me! Everything I say comes with the implicit caveat that I do not speak for anyone else except me, myself, and I. Whiners annoy me. If at any point in time I made so much as a pretense toward speaking on anyone else’s behalf in stating an opinion, I assure you it was the farthest thing from my actual intent.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

gryph.8734:

Miss Pink Floyd.9730:

“Is there anything good about GW2?”

Not any more.

Then ciao. And don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

Ahh yes… the attitude that SWTOR players took…

3 months later there was no one left to tell that to and all the devs were fired and the game went P2W.

Here’s a bit of advice for you. If you find yourself telling multiple people to do this… then the problem may not be with the people…

Ah. But SWTOR had one thing that Guild Wars 2 never had: It started as a subscription model. I’m sure that didn’t help matters much. Anyone who leaves GW2 is just as welcome to come back at a time of their choosing without having to spend a single thin red penny to do so. Whether they will ever want to is another matter, of course, but oh well.

Leo Paul.1659:

gryph.8734:

Leo Paul.1659:

gryph.8734:

Essence Snow.3194:

gryph.8734:

Leo Paul.1659:

gryph.8734:

Leo Paul.1659:

I dunno why people like to refer to GW2’s entire playerbase in a thread that is specifically addressed to the community. In most games I’ve played, the community (i.e. the forums, groups, reddit etc.) is aware of its identity and distinguishes itself from the general playerbase.

Also, arguments based solely on belonging in either minority/majority is an ad populum.

I’m making no argument as to the rightness or wrongness of the feature pack based on minority/majority appeal. My assertion is merely that even if a majority of forum posters are whining about it, it does not follow that it will necessarily hurt the game. I am of the opinion that the whiners are wayyyyy overstating their individual importance to the integrity of the game, but I suppose time will tell if I’m right or not.

Your assertion is these people are overstating their importance and thus will have no meaningful impact in the game solely because they are in a minority, which is invalid in itself. I for one believe that Lilith generates more positive traffic towards the game via his/her forum events. My point is you have no reliable gauge in estimating every poster’s value and relying on ad populum isn’t gonna get you merit.

I did not say my assertion was that these people are overstating their importance. I said that it is my opinion that these people are overstating their importance. I may be correct or incorrect in the end, but my opinion is just that: an opinion. Even if they are overstating their importance they could still have a meaningful impact on the game regardless of their status as a minority or majority. There’s only one way to know for sure and that is to wait and see. Popular metrics are the only thing that can be objectively measured with any reliability, but Tyria isn’t what you’d call a “controlled scientific environment.”

You know that assertion and opinion are synonyms right?

An assertion is provable or disprovable while an opinion is neither provable or disprovable. I’m going by what I learned in high school debate rather than strict dictionary definition.

Learn to walk before you run.

“Learn to walk before you run” is exactly what Anet tried to do with the NPE. Heh.

I concur, but being forced to walk when you know you can run seems to be the issue. But it seems they are fixing that already and I’m glad.

Then hopefully it will make things right with the whiners veterans. Personally, I would tend to think that the veterans with multiple 80’s wouldn’t have as big of a dog in the hunt, but it’s hard for me to relate to as I only have 2 80’s.

Leo Paul.1659:

gryph.8734:

Essence Snow.3194:

gryph.8734:

Leo Paul.1659:

gryph.8734:

Leo Paul.1659:

I dunno why people like to refer to GW2’s entire playerbase in a thread that is specifically addressed to the community. In most games I’ve played, the community (i.e. the forums, groups, reddit etc.) is aware of its identity and distinguishes itself from the general playerbase.

Also, arguments based solely on belonging in either minority/majority is an ad populum.

I’m making no argument as to the rightness or wrongness of the feature pack based on minority/majority appeal. My assertion is merely that even if a majority of forum posters are whining about it, it does not follow that it will necessarily hurt the game. I am of the opinion that the whiners are wayyyyy overstating their individual importance to the integrity of the game, but I suppose time will tell if I’m right or not.

Your assertion is these people are overstating their importance and thus will have no meaningful impact in the game solely because they are in a minority, which is invalid in itself. I for one believe that Lilith generates more positive traffic towards the game via his/her forum events. My point is you have no reliable gauge in estimating every poster’s value and relying on ad populum isn’t gonna get you merit.

I did not say my assertion was that these people are overstating their importance. I said that it is my opinion that these people are overstating their importance. I may be correct or incorrect in the end, but my opinion is just that: an opinion. Even if they are overstating their importance they could still have a meaningful impact on the game regardless of their status as a minority or majority. There’s only one way to know for sure and that is to wait and see. Popular metrics are the only thing that can be objectively measured with any reliability, but Tyria isn’t what you’d call a “controlled scientific environment.”

You know that assertion and opinion are synonyms right?

An assertion is provable or disprovable while an opinion is neither provable or disprovable. I’m going by what I learned in high school debate rather than strict dictionary definition.

Learn to walk before you run.

“Learn to walk before you run” is exactly what Anet tried to do with the NPE. Heh.