Guild Wars 2

Kardiamond.6952:

jcbroe.4329:

Kardiamond.6952:

Thesilentflute.8761:

I think there immunity to dmg potion needs nerfed more than anything whats the cd on it? I have 120s on my ranger at the cost of a trait and a skill and I still take trap dmg while its active.

Only immune to direct damage.

We still take condition damage.

And it’s a 60 sec cooldown.

Ranger got “protect me”, which give a similar effect for 6 second.

Which kills the class mechanic which makes up for a large portion or damage and yet another portion of utility. If swapped correctly no, but then it isn’t lasting anywhere near 6s.

When using the Elixir puts the toolbelt on a 60s cooldown, this comparison can be made again. The better comparison would have been to the Warriors stance, or Mesmers distortion however, since rangers probably have the most costly utility invulnerability (kill the pet or 30 trait points).

Well since you are immune to direct damage for 6 sec, and you still have acces to all your weapon abilities, there had to be drawback.

if you could pop it without damaging your pet, it would be really really strong. Warrior Endure pain would cry in a corner.

But I mean, 6 seconds is just a number on a tooltip. Because it is based entirely off the pets hp and how long it survives while Protect Me is active, it could only last for a single second if it is used on a pet with a low health bar. Generally, pets don’t seem to have much health either, and so even though it has the potential to last for 6s, a person who wants to keep the pet alive (should be everybody since it is a portion of the damage output) is never going to let it last that long, and if it is used to eat certain attacks (a mesmers full shatter chain) with no pet swap, the pet will certainly die, which gimps a ranger (how severely is a perspective by perspective thing).

But yes, after seeing your side, I agree it is fairly strong. I just wasn’t accounting for the skill ceiling it takes to get the most out of the skill when I originally responded (because I don’t consider most players to be playing up to that skill ceiling on ranger, though that goes for most of the professions in the game).

@OGDeadHead.8326; Sebrent.3625;

Well, I did say above that (the first time I mentioned it) that it IS just a bandaid fix. There truly are a lot of variables to work out across different modes and such. But I do believe that the pet needs some sort of dodge or invulnerable mechanic implemented while the core issues are worked out. Unfortunately, the only way I can see them doing this is going through every skill in the game (that could be construed as being used to x effect when in tandem with being used on a player with a pet) and evaluating how it interacts with the pet, then changing that interaction for each and every one of those skills.

Another bandaid type solution would simply be to make the pet invulnerable unless it is engaging an enemy (this would also count as engaging by using the F2 skill, since you are essentially engaging the pet by telling it to do something). If the pet isn’t doing anything, at all, and is just there, completely passive, there is no reason why it should be able to receive damage of any kind, since by it being passive, it isn’t benefiting you, so it shouldn’t benefit anything attacking you either.
The tradeoff for this would be that attacks would have to be able to pass through pets while invulnerable, so we couldn’t just use them as invulnerable meat shield. But either of those are the only fixes I can think of unless the skills are evaluated one at a time.

Durzlla.6295:

jcbroe.4329:

Sebrent.3625:

@swiftpaw
I’m flattered you called me Senpei.

@Durzlla
You’ll just have to hunt me down in-game to see :-p
Sylvari men have nothing on Norn men.

@Krugan
There are several invulnerability skills in-game that are on much lower cooldowns. Blurred Frenzy, while not 6 seconds and roots you in place, is 2 seconds of invuln, good damage, and is on a 10 sec (8 if traited) cooldown. That gives 25% invuln up-time alone on my Mesmer and can be paired with blocks, distortion shatter (more invuln), etc..

Elementalist invuln on Focus (Obsidian Flesh) is on a 50 sec cooldown and can be lowered with traits. Their Mist Form utility is on a 75 sec cooldown and can be traited to be a 60 sec cooldown, give regen and vigor, and remove a condition (and it’s already a stunbreaker).

Warrior’s Endure Pain is on a 90 sec cooldown.

As you can see, there is no real [good] reason for our signet of stone to be such a long cooldown, especially when it takes a 30 point grandmaster trait for it to affect the Ranger.

The same could be said for Signet of the Wild. Other classes have access to +dmg, stability, etc. on much shorter cooldowns and don’t require a 30 point grandmaster trait just to affect them.

Don’t forget Elixir S, when traited, the shortest cooldown invulnerability stomp in the game. That somehow doesn’t interrupt the stomp when you use it during the animation, even though the Elixir drinking animation should interrupt it…

you can do -anything- while you cast it, however a lot of skills can’t be used mid elixir S (like weapon skills) but i believe utiliites and that can be…

I really wish they’d get rid of invuln stomps… like, stability stomps and quick stomps and blind/stealth stomps are fine, but invuln is just stupid because there’s literally 0 counter.

Exactly, there should be no “form” stomping whatsoever. Also, if you think about it, ranger is the only class with a “form” (traited signet of the wild) that can’t stomp in it. Just more baffling things.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Xsorus.2507:

one of the weakness’s i find with rangers is our inability to get boons by any substantial means

Might is a prime example of this, other then Call of the Wild (and Rampage as One) we don’t really have a solid source of getting might.

We’re just light period on Boons

I have noticed that most of the classes generally considered undesirable for PvE are very light on boons. Perhaps ArenaNet will spread the boon love around a little instead of centering it around a few classes?

That, or ideally, classes with less boon access (again, ideally) should be the ones that are able to output the most damage, because of having the least access to boons to buff themselves and the group. The lack of boons should indicate that personal and group utility comes from a different (and equally strong) source. Rangers should have a stronger base damage on attacks to make up for the lack of personal might stacking, for instance (it really is the only category I can think of, we are strong evasion and condition wise, although our conditions burst and aren’t long lasting, so aren’t desired in certain PvE group settings).
I’m just not sure why some of the classes with the most access to boons have the highest base damage attacks, when other classes lack both the boons and the damage.

Sebrent.3625:

The thing is this, they can spam C&D as much as they want. The good thieves don’t do what the bad thieves do. If they are going to gain an advantage while unstealthed, they’ll restealth and wait for it. Regenerating HP and gaining large stacks of might are pretty good advantages.

You can swing your weapon all you want, but the thief can see you and move accordingly. You can’t see the thief. Your best bet without traps it so simply swing continuously at thin air … which is ridiculous. If they see you swinging at your pet, you’re not dodging so they’ll just C&D off your back. If you aren’t, then they can C&D off the pet. Good thieves exploit the heck out of their broken class.

Exactly. I still can’t believe we haven’t seen an implementation of pets dodging when we dodge yet. It’s a little more than ridiculous.

Sebrent.3625:

@swiftpaw
I’m flattered you called me Senpei.

@Durzlla
You’ll just have to hunt me down in-game to see :-p
Sylvari men have nothing on Norn men.

@Krugan
There are several invulnerability skills in-game that are on much lower cooldowns. Blurred Frenzy, while not 6 seconds and roots you in place, is 2 seconds of invuln, good damage, and is on a 10 sec (8 if traited) cooldown. That gives 25% invuln up-time alone on my Mesmer and can be paired with blocks, distortion shatter (more invuln), etc..

Elementalist invuln on Focus (Obsidian Flesh) is on a 50 sec cooldown and can be lowered with traits. Their Mist Form utility is on a 75 sec cooldown and can be traited to be a 60 sec cooldown, give regen and vigor, and remove a condition (and it’s already a stunbreaker).

Warrior’s Endure Pain is on a 90 sec cooldown.

As you can see, there is no real [good] reason for our signet of stone to be such a long cooldown, especially when it takes a 30 point grandmaster trait for it to affect the Ranger.

The same could be said for Signet of the Wild. Other classes have access to +dmg, stability, etc. on much shorter cooldowns and don’t require a 30 point grandmaster trait just to affect them.

Don’t forget Elixir S, when traited, the shortest cooldown invulnerability stomp in the game. That somehow doesn’t interrupt the stomp when you use it during the animation, even though the Elixir drinking animation should interrupt it…

Sebrent.3625:

Zenith, you’re missing the point …

Your ranger pet is just standing there when the thief is stealthed. It’s not going to block, dodge, etc. which makes it an easy C&D target for the thief.

I don’t care how much you block, dodge, etc.. The Thief is going to C&D your pet.

Blindly attacking at your pet is going to hit them for very little damage which will be healed and have conditions removed every time they stealth:

• Shadow Protector - gives Regeneration which, with 0 +healing, heals them for 130 hp/sec.
• Shadow’s Embrace - removes a condition when they stealth and if they stayed stealthed for 3+ seconds (stealth lasts 4 seconds with 15 pts in Shadow Arts)
• Shadow’s Rejuvenation - with 0 +healing, heals them for 293 hp/sec

So that’s 423 hp/sec and 2 conditions removed each time they stealth. They come out of it with a hard hitting bleed application every time and can do this quite often (revealed is only 4 seconds).

Also, they are gaining Might via Hidden Assassin which is giving them 2 stacks of might for 15 seconds for stealthing and for every 3 seconds they are stealthed … so 4 stacks of might each time as well. I hope you’re enjoying those bleeds.

And personally I think the p/d variant is just as strong, since it uses the same trait combination, but it goes down the critical line to pick up Hidden Killer (100% crit chance in stealth). This means that now, a thief doesn’t even have to build for berserker gear. They can just stack as much +crit damage as possible without needing a single additional point of precision, and still hit 5k backstabs (average, even against players with 3000 armor, otherwise it would be hitting for around 7k, give or take).

This, coupled with the insane health regen (which doesn’t really rely much on the healing stat, except for the actual boon regeneration, but even then, stacking healing doesn’t really matter to the build much, so the freedom of gearing is there) and ability to use HS as a leap through the smoke field on pistol 5 and stealth any time, along with the stealthing utilities, provides one of the most difficult thief fights.

P/D is worse for me to go up against personally as a ranger(it looks like I’m not the only one), because with the range on their pistols, I can’t always force them into my traps, and the entire time I fight them, having to try to position right, manage my pet, and avoid letting the conditions stack too high, they can just c&d, heal between 5-10% of their health, then come out of stealth with a strong multibleed attack, and our pets are not able to avoid c&d so we are completely helpless against this build.

The pet really should be dodging when we do. This is the most simple fix they could provide, even if it is only a bandaid fix until they figure out what they really want to do with it. Giving us a second healthbar the holds so much of our damage and utility to manage, then not giving us anything to mitigate damage on it other than a 120s cd signet, that doesn’t even mitigate this constant stealthing problem, is probably the most questionable bout of balancing I’ve ever seen in the 10 years I’ve been playing games (seriously, as in, with a competitive intention and strong knowledge of the game).

Ostricheggs.3742:

Celtus.8456:

Am I the only person who thought GW1’s separation of PvP/PvE balance was a bad move? It caused rampant over-buffing of PvE skills, some of which spilled over into PvP. Besides that, I do not seem to recall any great balancing achievements in PvP or PvE caused by the skill split, I do feel that the quality of the game declined though (especially the challenge of PvE and diversity of PvP builds).

And I believe the gap between “PvP players” and “PvE players” was widened…

Really your argument boils down to balancing problems that didn’t occur from the split itself but rather the incompetence that followed.

To add to responding to this, personally I didn’t feel like the PvE/PvP split ever affected any aspect of balance. The way I remember it (it’s been awhile), the actual changes to functions of things were the things that made me facepalm (Wastrels spam…)

OGDeadHead.8326:

xHoudinix.4523:

Pretty much how I lose to a thief almost everytime spec’d this way. Seriously can get them to 1/4 health then gone. Then the thief comes back with the stacks of might and almost full health, while I’m hanging somewhere between and quarter and half.

Perfectly balanced in Anet’s view. They seriously don’t understand the huge advantage thieves have over rangers because of how they can abuse cnd on our pets. It truly boggles the mind when you think about it.

A totally broken game mechanic.

This. So much this it just makes me alt f4 sometimes (if it’s that bad). It is one of the things that irks me about this game, because rangers are the ONLY class that can have its class mechanic killed and disabled for a period of time. Then, on top of making it targetable, there was no forethought on how other players would be able to use skills on pets for their own benefit (instead of just the sole, narrow minded view of only attacking the pet to kill the pet).
So now, we’re left with a class mechanic that can be killed and thereby disabled, potentially without fulfilling its purpose (the only class in the game, let me remind everybody again, that can have its class mechanic disabled) and people are just targeting use with attacks that bounce off our pets and deal double DPS to use because of it, and they stealth off our pet repeatedly and take any chance of being an even fight away from us. Then they walk casually around our pets while our pet fails to bite their ankles; the simplest of tasks.

And then we all come to the forums, and in an either positive or negative way, we try to make cases to explain in every way possible why this isn’t balanced, and how it impacts the class negatively. And then somebody inevitably derails the topic, telling everybody their “QQing,” the devs don’t respond, and nobody hears from a balance dev for 7 months.

The cycle continues :/

NevirSayDie.6235:

jcbroe.4329:

Hmm? I thought it was being run with Carrion, not rabid. I have only watched Teldo play engy though, so I can’t really speak from an area of knowing anything about it.

Edit: whoops, meant rampagers.

It can be run with rampager’s as well, but it’s not a great choice because you actually lose over 200 condition damage in addition to then having base toughness. So the extra couple hundred power and precision is cool but just not worth it unless you plan on never getting hit. Teldo can do that because he’s Teldo.

It’s the exact reason why, even though I find his streams entertaining, I can’t stand the builds he uses lol. They are very specific and somehow work for him very well though.

Durzlla.6295:

Sebrent.3625:

ArenaNet has mentioned the longbow needs love. What do you think they were talking about then? eh?

They have said that longbow damage was in a good place (which i agree with) but it has like no survivability at all, which they want to fix, which will probably translate into some more CC on the longbow which will then translate to more damage due to more range.

Adding to this, I think a big issue with the game itself comes from the attack speed (not just the longbow, but ranged weapons in general). It makes sense that ranged weapons do less damage than melee as a risk reward factor, and it makes sense that melee characters get gap closers in order to combat against people who can stay at range. However, when three variables work together (movement speed, ranged weapons attack speed, and an opponents gap closing ability) it makes ranged weapons lose so much of their effectiveness, and not many classes have the skills on the weapon itself to be able to kite and counter this effectively.

In PvE, it isn’t really as noticeable (at least for me) because you can kite all day and make the ranged weapons more effective, but against other players a lot of ranged weapons lack the defensive capabilities that I am assuming the devs are referring to.

So as Durzilla said, and I am hoping, that we are on the same page with the devs on this one and the changes come to light sooner than later. Since there is no future content added to the site that announces it yet, I am hoping it is sooner.

Sebrent.3625:

Yeah, ultimately all we can do is wait and see. I just hope what I see warrants sticking around. Currently I don’t have anything better (though I have split my time now between GW2 and Firefall’s beta … because GW2 is aggravating me more and more).

I’m trying to stay positive with it though … hence the number crunching and fact finding endeavors … hoping something turns up from that …

Thief and Elementalist still kitten me off (except when I’m playing as them … then I’m just like “wow, this is too easy”)

I definitely agree.

Sebrent.3625:

As I stated in a thread dedicated to boon hate … it’s a dumb idea because it makes the following scenarios possible:

• Getting mad at allies for giving you boons because it’s causing you to take more damage
• Getting mad at allies for removing boons from foes because it’s causing you to do more damage

How dumb would the following be to see in chat?

• “Guardians, don’t give us boons, you’re killing us”
• “Elementalists, stay away from us, don’t take elemental attunement, or don’t change attunements near us”
• “Mesmers and Necros, stop stripping boons from the enemy. You’re helping them.”

Pretty dumb.

Depends how it’s implemented. It was implemented pretty well in guild wars 1, but you also had the ability to micro boons (what I mean is that you could cancel their durations on yourself early). If it is a straight "if opponent has a boon, then you deal x% more damage) then yes, I completely agree that it is dumb.

Personally, I’m hoping for something more subtle than that, like adding an effect to a grandmaster trait that allows you to ignore aegis with an ICD, or reduce damage done by retaliation. Subtle changes that would give classes a certain advantage against boon classes that they don’t currently have.

The easier solution would have been to just open up more access to boon removal across all classes (which I still hope for). But even in guild wars 1, ANET never liked easy solutions, and instead liked to introduce more new concepts into the game (that could be, and were, imbalanced). Sometimes they work, sometimes they don’t, but they were so vague in the state of the game, I can’t even be irritated by it (yet).

glock.2089:

Jcbroe thanks for a noble attempt at translating that incomprehensible gibberish. Yes, the sPVP/tPVP version of celestial is a completely separate issue. Everything about this thread has referred to the PVE/WvW version of celestial. If that trollish poster had bothered to read the thread, he might have realized he was derailing an otherwise robust discussion. Fortunately, he did not succeed.

Well the link I posted earlier in the thread references a PvP environment entirely, but there is no reason why the same setup wouldn’t have merit across different game modes, albeit, the equipment would be different and the stat gain more significant, but the trait setup could still be viable.

(on a side note, and in parenthesis as to attempt to show I don’t mean to derail the topic; but isn’t it bothersome that equipment is split for pve/pvp? I understand the reasoning behind it entirely, but it creates an unnecessary knowledge gap, which is definitely frustrating)

Well the implementation of only one game mode comes from a lot of esports with fast paced action having game modes centered around a capture the flag type objective and/or a point capture objective, and a few shooters having no-respawn deathmatch/offense-defense objective.

We have point capture (obviously) and one of the maps contains a ctf style objective within it, but I am in full agreement for more game modes (and balancing some of the aspects of the ones we have now, like ride the lightning orb carriers).

The light on boons thing was the exact reason why I thought that rangers would be prime users of the “boon punishment” concept brought up in the last State of the Game. However, the devs only mentioned thieves and warriors (who already deal very high direct damage AND have access to might) on the list for potential boon punishment.

Exactly what Sebrent said about them thinking the game is ready to be an esport. In reality, it just makes me /facepalm.

AlexRD.7914:

I have tested the longbow’s auto attack and yes, it’s 1.25s.
Just activate any instant utility that has a high cooldown and count how many arrows you fire. Higher cooldown means less room for mistakes. Anywho, when i tested it gave me exactly 1.25s.

EDIT: You know, if this really is just a mistake in ANETs part then that will explain the longbow being horrible. The longbow would deal 1.6x more damage if that were the case.

It would be nice, but I do remember there being a thread a while back that showed that about half the weapons autoattacks don’t match their tooltips. Ones I remember were Longbow on Warrior and Pistols on thieves/engis. I haven’t tested it for myself to confirm it, but I would be willing to believe that it is true lol.

glock.2089:

garethh.3518:

It doesn’t net you more stats.
Logically, if you are getting an even bout of everything you would need to gain more total stats, to take into account specific stats helping the build more than others.

But you don’t…
So its worthless.

*I don’t WvW/PvE

A truly baffling statement given it is clearly established that you do gain more stats overall. I don’t know if it is a lack of comprehension or just plain denial on your part but your statement is completely wrong (the part about you not playing PVE or WvW may partially explain your apparent ignorance).

Some people do pvp primarily, and in pvp it is only +340 w/jewel for all stats and +20% crit chance. For the amulets without crit chance, the focus stat is about 3x as much, and the secondary starts are twice as much (w/jewels, and not exact but so close that the numbers are within 50).

I believe what he is getting at is that in pvp, the celestial amulet doesn’t add anything to a build that a different amulet wouldn’t be more efficient at, unless going for some complicated stat mixture that would leave a few under utilized stats that are being provided (which could be added somewhere else using different equipment).

Kardiamond.6952:

Thesilentflute.8761:

I think there immunity to dmg potion needs nerfed more than anything whats the cd on it? I have 120s on my ranger at the cost of a trait and a skill and I still take trap dmg while its active.

Only immune to direct damage.

We still take condition damage.

And it’s a 60 sec cooldown.

Ranger got “protect me”, which give a similar effect for 6 second.

Which kills the class mechanic which makes up for a large portion or damage and yet another portion of utility. If swapped correctly no, but then it isn’t lasting anywhere near 6s.

When using the Elixir puts the toolbelt on a 60s cooldown, this comparison can be made again. The better comparison would have been to the Warriors stance, or Mesmers distortion however, since rangers probably have the most costly utility invulnerability (kill the pet or 30 trait points).

mursie.3681:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Raptured.9307:

It is pretty clear this is getting nerfed. Engineers right now make the best point defenders/ point oriented support right now with ridiculous dmg/control/ good survivability. With the ridiculous amount of buffs last patch, They are bound to be toned down- the question being, by how much?

Just putting out another reminder for those who haven’t actually played the spec—HGH condi engies have zero interrupts (outside an elite skill) and very little support. They do have a huge amount of sustained damage, as well as plenty of single condition removals and a three second invuln, so they aren’t completely glassy.

The buffs of the last patch were almost all to turrets, which are still virtually unused in tournaments. The HGH condi build received zero changes.

Lastly, I would like to remind people that the HGH build is a hard counter to pure bunker team compositions. Removing a counter is a dangerous decision. I thought a few weeks ago we wanted a profession that could reliably kill a bunker after a reasonable amount of time? If teams literally stop taking eles and guards because HGH engies counter them too hard, then we know it’s time to nerf.

aren’t completely glassy? lol. You have around 1700 toughness and 18.5K hp with rabid amulet. plus the boons from elixir H…plus the condi removal from elixir drinks…plus elixir S and thrown elixir S… plus your elite.

you are, no where even close to near, the definition of glassy.

Hmm? I thought it was being run with Carrion, not rabid. I have only watched Teldo play engy though, so I can’t really speak from an area of knowing anything about it.

Edit: whoops, meant rampagers.

Back when I still posted on guru I had made a page about this, though I have to own up and say at this point in the metagame and with my experience now, I would have to go back and retest anything I said to make sure I could could still support some of my claims. Builds are probably a little outdated too, but since nothing major has changed in the ranger plays, it would mostly be minor tweaks to adjust for metagame shifts.
Alas, here’s the link: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79924-bestmost-versatile-amulet-to-use-in-spvp/

Alright, I figured it out, and I’ll post a link for the changes I made (another copy and paste link).

In text: Runes changed to 6x runes of Lyssa and sigil on sword changed to Smoldering. This allows the crit chance to remain the same, drops a slight bit of condition damage, and exchanges it for adding 1s of burning to the torch offhand, which is a higher damage output over time. Also, the boon on heal is always welcome.

Durzlla.6295:

I still wish that Rapid Fire applied a condi on each arrow… Maybe bleeding, or cripple, or hell even more vuln would be nice!

And I need to check to see if longbow is really bugged with the 1skill, may need to bust out my slingshot if that’s the case…

When I do a stopwatch timer, I consistently shoot 8 arrows over the course of 10s. Which means 1.25s. It’s unfortunate, and it leads me to believe (as it always has) that the longbow is bugged (I would rather it be bugged than the tooltip, because that would indicate an increase in firing speed on the autoattack as a fix).

jubskie.3152:

jcbroe.4329:

Sebrent.3625:

jubskie.3152:

Based on just those 2 skills, it is skewed in favor of shortbow. But taking the 10 stacks of Vulnerability into the equation, it balances it out a bit, since you not only improve your own damage, but also of anyone attacking the target.

The closest SB has to a DPS “assist” is the poison from SB #2

Negative. You’re not taking into consideration that poison reduces healing by 33%. That’s extremely effective.

Also, you don’t always have other people to benefit from vulnerability you inflict on your target.

To add to this response, shortbow also has a good cripple effect to reduce the opponent kiting, so more DPS, and the potential to interrupt the heal. Longbow can interrupt with the knockback, however, it is also a skill the forces positioning, so if you use the Knockback as interrupt, it can also interrupt the flow of DPS to the target by offsetting damage they are taking (knocking them out of an AoE for instance).

People who use knockback skills do this quite frequently in PvP situations and it is frustrating to no end when somebody decides they want to help the opponent by knocking them out of your traps, or away from you when you are trying to stomp.

Additionally, I’m not sure why anybody is surprised that a pressure weapon has more DPS than a (assumed) burst weapon. Of course the pressure weapon maintains a better DPS, that’s what pressure is… The bigger issue is whether or not the longbow can actually be considered to be bursting high enough for it to be considered a VIABLE burst weapon.

No love for Barrage?

Barrage doesn’t function well at crippling targets in the way I am referring. In particular, Barrage functions much better as an area control tool, and it excels at that. However, if you wanted to stop a fleeing opponent, barrage doesn’t really work efficiently at that because of its channeling, and that it has that AoE indicator that everybody is so trained to dodge through, and each hit of barrage doesn’t apply a very long cripple (isn’t it just 1s?) meaning that a fleeing opponent can just dodge through it and continue going.

Sebrent.3625:

Exactly what burst is longbow providing? It’s #2 “burst” skill is worse dps than the auto-attack of shortbow.

The only burst we had was sword + quickness and that got nerfed with the quickness nerf.

I agree with you, I was actually trying to allude to that with my over-informative paragraph explanations of things lol.

Sebrent.3625:

jubskie.3152:

Based on just those 2 skills, it is skewed in favor of shortbow. But taking the 10 stacks of Vulnerability into the equation, it balances it out a bit, since you not only improve your own damage, but also of anyone attacking the target.

The closest SB has to a DPS “assist” is the poison from SB #2

Negative. You’re not taking into consideration that poison reduces healing by 33%. That’s extremely effective.

Also, you don’t always have other people to benefit from vulnerability you inflict on your target.

To add to this response, shortbow also has a good cripple effect to reduce the opponent kiting, so more DPS, and the potential to interrupt the heal. Longbow can interrupt with the knockback, however, it is also a skill the forces positioning, so if you use the Knockback as interrupt, it can also interrupt the flow of DPS to the target by offsetting damage they are taking (knocking them out of an AoE for instance).

People who use knockback skills do this quite frequently in PvP situations and it is frustrating to no end when somebody decides they want to help the opponent by knocking them out of your traps, or away from you when you are trying to stomp.

Additionally, I’m not sure why anybody is surprised that a pressure weapon has more DPS than a (assumed) burst weapon. Of course the pressure weapon maintains a better DPS, that’s what pressure is… The bigger issue is whether or not the longbow can actually be considered to be bursting high enough for it to be considered a VIABLE burst weapon.

Manekk.6981:

I think the leeching sigil would be good for this (I forgot it’s name) I assume you swap weapons anyway fairly often to apply conditions why not make it heal you (with their life) it’s a pretty decent heal/damage too 900+ anyway.

I like this, this is a good choice and fits the playstyle well. My only gripe is that it isn’t pbAoE (meaning because it is on next attack, you have to pay a bit more attention to what you use to make sure you get full use out of the sigils).

I find that if I am swapping often, the healing is noticeable and I feel like I’m gaining the healing potential I have on my thief build (it’s a Shadow’s Rejuvenation stealth/heal D/P build if anybody wants to ask about that, I don’t play thief enough to say it is good because I don’t primarily care for thief play).

I don’t think anything beats the DPS of sigil of earth though, which is disappointing because it really gimps the stronger options available on the offhand set.

garethh.3518:

I think the longbows spammable attack time is closer to 1.25s due to a bug.
Or at least rumor has it.

I can confirm it in my testing that the longbows autoattack is close to that if not exactly. I can only really do a stopwatch method so the number is probably more exact than mine, but it is definitely nowhere near what the tooltip indicates (it is definitely slower).

Durzlla.6295:

jcbroe.4329:

Maybe (unfortunately I can’t test this right now, so sorry it’s just a hypothesis) the sigil of fire procs on your pet and you at the same time?
What I mean is, have your pet attack a target, then you attack a different target, and then watch to see if it procs on the pet at the same time it procs for you.

I’m not exactly sure how the people who tested it went about doing it, but my theory on this stems from the idea that the sigil of fire is still an extension of the weapon, so the weapon itself would still have to be in active use to create the proc. But that doesn’t mean that when it is in use, the pet can’t proc it when you do (or however they could have coded it to work in this manner, I would test it myself if I could).

If this isn’t resolved tomorrow I’ll have it tested myself around 8pm EST.

I tested this as well, I also tried it with piercing arrows, barrage, axes, dagger, sword, torch, GS, spear, harpoon gun, literally every way I could think of and nothing, it -only- procs on one target and -only- procs from you because your pet doesn’t have sigils.

Nice, good to hear it was tested. It’s a shame it doesn’t proc for out pet though. It would add so much to the pet mechanic. I’m sure there would have to be some programming logic in there somewhere to make sure it doesn’t proc for both you and your pet at the same time, or that would be OP. I guess I can see how it would be OP regardless, since our pets share separate stat allocations, but it would be nice if there was some sort of way to have the option to apply procs to any of our pets crits (and not just that one trait, for only bleeding).

AlexRD.7914:

I think using both Torch and Flame trap is counter productive, as burning stacks in duration. Grab the poison trap, and keep torch. That way it’ll be easier to kill bunkers.

I don’t tend to use them in conjunction with each other. If the thread appears the way I think it will after I submit this response, then if you read the last post made by me before this one, it explains the playstyle and a little of the thought process behind the weapon choices.
Basically, the idea is that flame trap and shortbow is the damage, or I suppose “burst.” When flame trap goes on cooldown (in fight), I weapon swap, and then hit them with torch.

There are a few reasons why I like this setup. One, because I feel the more burning you can have, the better, because it is definitely the builds highest single hit damage when it ticks. But additionally, they each bring different things (the torch and trap) to the build. Flame Trap is unblockable, so it is guaranteed damage (basically) but is short duration. Torch is longer range with a longer duration, but a fairly slow moving projectile (in my opinion) and dodge-able. So they each have there pluses and minuses, but the idea is to have the highest upkeep of burning possible.

Not to say I don’t agree and support the suggestion. Its basically just choosing which condition you want to be able to guarantee on a target (poison or burning). My preference is burning because it does more damage, and the shortbows poison is on a shorter cooldown than torch 4, so there are more chances to apply poison without the trap. That’s my reasoning behind it.

Wanderer.5471:

jubskie.3152:

jcbroe.4329:

Wanderer.5471:

Imho sigil of earth and sigil of geomancy don’t work together well, as all sigils share a cooldown. What this means is that if you get a bleed on crit with your sigil of earth set, adn then weapon swap within 5 seconds, the aoe bleed from geomancy won’t trigger, so it will effectively do nothing the entire 9 seconds you’re in that set. This will happen often.

Yeah I actually noticed that, but I haven’t found an optimal choice to replace it yet. None of the condition duration sigils really affect any of the amount of time the would add up to another proc. I would love to be wrong about that though.

I’m sure there is a hidden gem in there I just haven’t figured out yet.

Sigil of Earth has a 2 second cooldown, the 5 seconds on the description is the duration of the bleed.

Nice catch on the CD, my mistake, But effectively it doesn’t make too much difference – shorter CD means more procs in a given time, means more likely there will be a proc < 2 seconds before a weapons swap.

As for other sigil options, i totally agree there isn’t a huge number of options, maybe another sigil of earth? Depends how much geomancy procs as well in your experience.

Well with the way I play the shortbow could be considered the damage weapon, while the offset is a defensive/trap cooldown set. Basically, DPS them with bow while you hit them with traps, then switch to the sword/torch, hit them with some more burning, and kite/evade until the traps are back up, the weapon swap back and repeat.

Two sigils of geomancy could do the job, and I could drop sigil of earth altogether. But then that would basically make trying to aim for more crit a moot point, which then opens up the options a bit more, but shifts the build more towards a healing build then a damage build.
Not to say the damage output is TREMENDOUSLY higher, but any crit is a good crit lol.

Manekk.6981:

Sigil of earth will do significantly more damage than sigil of fire on a condition spec, fire does less than 500 per proc on a low power spec like this I just tested it and the maximum proc I could get was 494 on the light armor golem that’s with slightly more power than this spec would have cause I was too lazy to drop my traits but regardless a single bleed would outdamage that and you should get minimum 2bleeds from earth alone, over time it would be even more noticable as fire has a longer internal cd so earth should do 2-3 times as much damage as fire on a condition spec even if it’s being cleansed cause it’s constantly reapplied.

That’s what I thought, and that’s basically what I’m getting too. I never realized how power dependent sigil of fire was on power (air either). It would be interesting to see numbers comparing the ratios of attribute investment to the return in proc sigils at some point, but I’m not going to be the one that does that test, I already do too much math in my life away from GW2 lol.

Sol.4310:

Nice build, I used to run something very much the same with few minor changes mainly the runes and jewel and 2 traits.

I run something different now, found it far more effective.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBlYDbEoquOuyyC1OQ0ewJJhJ2DD5oH5K4/SGVFA;TsAAzCpoGzMmYMbRuxkjt+YYxeBA

I run different sigil combo it has higher chance of getting the weapon swap to work. I run horn for the speed boost, I found it more effective then torch/dagger. I sometime’s change my bow, as I run 2 different sigils all depends on my mood.

I run Orrian runes, so I can keep up really good amount of poison, it makes up for loss of poison trap. Lets me take a solid stun breaker + I trait so my entangle recharges faster so LR+Entangle.

I like this a lot as well. Do you mind me asking a estimate on how much sigil of fire procs for? I can test it the next time I’m on, but right now I’m 15 hours away from that point, and anxious to make the damage comparison lol.
Basically, I’m asking if sigil of fire matches/beats the damage of sigil of earth.

Also, if I’m doing my math right (I hope I am, it’s late though): Sigil of Earth, with 50% crit chance, procs at .0.5*(6/10)=0.3 while sigil of fire procs at 0.5*(3/10)=0.15. Basically, that the possibility of occurrence is twice as high with sigil of earth as it is with sigil of fire.
So then there’s the benefits of sigil of fire being direct damage and therefore not in danger of being cleansed like a bleed and having its damage reduced, as well as sigil of fires proc being 1 hit, and not a DoT.

So depending on what the damage is on it, it may prove to be a stronger choice than sigil of earth.

I’m very curious, and wish I could be on right now lol.

Wanderer.5471:

Imho sigil of earth and sigil of geomancy don’t work together well, as all sigils share a cooldown. What this means is that if you get a bleed on crit with your sigil of earth set, adn then weapon swap within 5 seconds, the aoe bleed from geomancy won’t trigger, so it will effectively do nothing the entire 9 seconds you’re in that set. This will happen often.

Yeah I actually noticed that, but I haven’t found an optimal choice to replace it yet. None of the condition duration sigils really affect any of the amount of time the would add up to another proc. I would love to be wrong about that though.

I’m sure there is a hidden gem in there I just haven’t figured out yet.

Maybe (unfortunately I can’t test this right now, so sorry it’s just a hypothesis) the sigil of fire procs on your pet and you at the same time?
What I mean is, have your pet attack a target, then you attack a different target, and then watch to see if it procs on the pet at the same time it procs for you.

I’m not exactly sure how the people who tested it went about doing it, but my theory on this stems from the idea that the sigil of fire is still an extension of the weapon, so the weapon itself would still have to be in active use to create the proc. But that doesn’t mean that when it is in use, the pet can’t proc it when you do (or however they could have coded it to work in this manner, I would test it myself if I could).

If this isn’t resolved tomorrow I’ll have it tested myself around 8pm EST.

Yeah, I found it to work in hotjoins better than tournys. In general, triple traps works better in tournaments (in my opinion/experience) because most classes are building defensively with bunker tactics and the poison trap applies a very long lasting poison while adding to the overall damage output, and when using the setup that used to be accessible on team PZ’s site (0/30/30/5/5, however after quickness nerf I run 0/30/30/10/0, with a rabid amulet and undead runes) it is a very large amount of condition damage from multiple sources that are hard to cleanse and keep cleansed.

That being said, in hotjoins, there are A LOT of people running glass with barely any defensive options against conditions, and because of that I feel the setup I posted in the OP brings a lot of the staying power of a bunker style ranger setup to the trap build, which really allows you to take much more abuse than a pure Trap DPS type setup.
It’s just something to have fun with and run, because until certain skills (cough backstab cough) no longer hit for 5k damage with a chance to proc sigil of air/fire for an additional 1-2k on top of it, I feel that survival is definitely the way to spec in hotjoins where there are lots of glass cannons and not a lot of team play.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAV8fjEV11xVKWo2Bg2jMlET2DDd8RXhRLYTF;TsAg2CsosyYlwKrVOrkWt8YUxeBA

This build is and has only been used by me in a pvp environment, so that is where my talking point are going to stem from.

The goal of this build was to take some of the survival of a bunker style build and combine it with the damage of traps (I’m referencing a triple trap pvp build, like the one posted by Java on team pz, or run by gasmask on his stream).

Personally, I think that having 28% (says 29, must be ceiling’d) crit chance, with 35% crit damage outputs its fair share of consistent damage while still critting often enough to proc bleed on crits. The condition damage isn’t the highest to begin with (bleeds only proc around 91-92) but the strength of the build comes from burning, which still hits for 572 per tick. Any additional condition damage needed is gained through stacks of corruption. Gaining 25 stacks in tpvp may be considered harder than in hotjoins to some, but it is still a potential increase of 250 condition damage, and when added to this build, only makes it that much stronger/more versatile.

People may immediately notice their are no stun breakers and consider the build not efficient. However, as with a triple trap build, the stuns are dealt with through evades and Shared Anguish/Hide in Plain Sight.

The heal is always a controversial topic (some people prefer troll unguent) however, the strength of a trap build in spvp is that it can bring something to a team fight, and healing spring is the best water combo field in the game, so even if people are comboing through it, you are still using an AoE condition remover with regen procs.

The loss of the poison trap is noticeable at times, but rangers have more than enough poison options on weapon skills to compensate for that, and the 100 regen per second on a trap build isn’t anything to scoff at.

So basically, try this out if you haven’t. I’m not saying it is better than any other build out there, as I am testing it myself, but this setup seemed to be a good way to combine the strengths of two of our most viable builds (in pvp).

Edit: Forgot to mention, the tooltip in the builder doesn’t update, but the regen is exactly 100 from Signet.

Updated: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAV8fjEV11xVKWo2Bg2jMlET2DDd8RXhRLYTF;TsAg2CsoKyUkoIbRuikFtEYUxeBA

The way I personally would alter this build is to switch the runes out for either Forge runes or Scholar runes, depending on whether I felt I needed more damage or survival.

That’s a personal preference though, I feel rangers have enough condi removal without having to invest in Lyssa runes.

I saw in the patch notes that the fiery dragon sword (pvp is the one I checked) bug should be fixed and visible on all accounts that have earned it.

However, mine has yet to show up in my rewards. Is there any remedy to this?

Yeah it’s a bit ridiculous. People are to the point where they are even calling rangers in every other game OP, or telling me (when I’m on my ranger) that of course I’m doing well with my fotm ranger (when I’ve been playing ranger since beta and virtually the same build since launch, AND I only run BM maybe 10% of the time).

There hasn’t been a single change in this game since launch that has changed a single viable build for rangers (same builds since day 1). People are not used to the new quickness, and probably not used to people playing their class well, and that is going to be the biggest source of the “X class is overpowered” argument.

Uhhh, I could be wrong about that armor post, but doesn’t adding 100 toughness (which adds 100 armor) increase mitigation by about 3.4%? With Diminishing Returns? I could be misreading the post, because if I read it as having to double the current armor value to mitigate 50% damage then that is absolutely correct and I am just getting caught up on the value chosen and whatever else.

It’s late at night here for me too lol

Mako.1942:

Yea it just means you can’t have a decent pet and do decent dmg, plus If you invest 30 on bm you have to put at least 10 in crit for the +30% pet speed else it’s all to waste in pvp. Having a nails jag that can’t catch the target I ussssseless and an expensive 30 trait points for 300 healing, a bit of regen and pet that never dies but never does any dmg lol.

So in theory I need to use 40 trait points to get the pet to be any use really…
Works a bit better in wvw when they don’t know flea bag is chewing the trousers off them from behind.

What about signet of the hunt? Ideally the build I’m thinking is some combination of axe/sword/torch/dagger and 0/0/30/10/30. The control options on the weapons plus signet of the hunt should make the pet land hits fairly often.

Durzlla.6295:

jcbroe.4329:

For the people that PvP, hows the damage in this build? Not that it is built to be damage oriented, but is it the type of build that supports and holds points, or does it have the potential to be similar to the current meta bunker ranger? (0/0/30/10/30 etc etc etc)

The build i used (not the -same- as above it used knights armor for starters..) was VERY good at 1v1s and essentially the enemy had 1 shot to get their burst off, otherwise they weren’t going to get it off again before they went down.

Not to mention it shreds guardians because their heal would have a 66% longer CD, which is already long to begin with…

I’ll have to give it a shot. Probably with a rabid amulet to capitalize on the condition output and crits at the same time.

For the people that PvP, hows the damage in this build? Not that it is built to be damage oriented, but is it the type of build that supports and holds points, or does it have the potential to be similar to the current meta bunker ranger? (0/0/30/10/30 etc etc etc)

@Mako;

From a PvP perspective, +300 healing while picking up Natural Healing to additional constant regen on top of Signet of the Wild (assuming a bunker style build), while making the pet do more damage, is a very nice thing to have.

From any other aspect of the game, it isn’t as beneficial as you would want it to be, but the game tends to be balanced from a pvp perspective… so what can you do? (splitting pve/pvp seems to be a last resort to ANet, even though in guild wars 1 almost every skill was split…)

garethh.3518:

The troll ungent heals for roughly 1k every sec for 10s on a 25s CD.
If the ranger takes it, its brutal healing to beat threw.

Agreed, forgot to mention that.

It still doesn’t change that in general, the metagame now after the quickness nerf just favors bunker playstyles.

If every class had a number of competitive builds (this includes traits and utility options), I would be all for nerfing anything that was still standing out above other options.
But we just aren’t at the point in this game yet where it would be healthy for the function of any class to start nerfing things left and right, because most classes don’t have another build that would perform on an equally viable level, and it would hurt the game more than help it.

At least that’s my perception of it.

I’m still trying to figure out where this incredible regen is coming from (unless Spirit of Nature is up, but the preferred elite is still Entangle I thought).

Without the regen boon, a ranger is healing maybe 200-300 hp per second, and that doesn’t all tick at once (the grandmaster trait is 133 hp every 2 seconds). Yes that is strong, but isn’t like it is impossible to outdamage. There is also the use of poison to suppress healing.
On top of that, it isn’t like a ranger is going to kill everybody when running this spec.

Just because a class has one spec that makes it good at something, it doesn’t mean that it is OP. Every class in the game has some sort of apex predator issue going on with builds, but that doesn’t mean we should scream nerf those good builds.

It means that classes need to be looked at as a whole and given some other viable options, because it is possible that with a future update, more hardcounters could be added to the game to create more build versatility (like the boon punishment talk), and then the builds that exist as being strong in the meta now wouldn’t have necessarily deserved a nerf at all.

Durzlla.6295:

Well, i know that me, a support built LB ranger, with no food or other buffs have won every fair fire fight in WvW jumping puzzles against stupid shortbow rangers who were fully decked out in food buffs and sharpening stones (item not skill) and thought “Oh i can out dps that long bow ranger from 1200 away!!” i’ve been in.

Can shortbow rangers win in a skirmishy open field fight where they can dance in and out of melee range? Well yes, yes they can, but that’s kind of what that bow is designed for, where the longbow is designed as the stand waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay in the back and snipe people for big damage bow.

And that right there was the only point I was trying to make with any of my posts in this thread. The point being that mentally, people are comparing the bows against each other as a primary weapon in combat, when at this point in the games development (I only say that because it is unknown to anybody but the devs what role the longbow was meant to have for the ranger) its actual function is a utility weapon.

That is where I think my point got lost (and I apologize, I wasn’t trying to be disagreeable, only to make the points I’m highlighting in this post); that the way the weapon functions dissents from the way people want it to function. Which stems from the idea that logically the longbow should be the greater power weapon for ranged damage than shortbow. However, logically (as in logically in perception based on the standard that every weapon has a unique and competitive role with another weapon a class has access to) while this makes sense, in actuality it doesn’t.

And THAT is how I was trying to explain why a lot of the people in the community have a dislike for the longbow.

@KensaiZen;

But what I’m saying is that when you add in so many variables, you lose the point you are trying to make. For example, the greatsword could just be a great complimentary weapon to other weapons. But you would have to factor in usage statistics and damage statistics and such.
Also, for factoring in weapon swaps, that is making the assumption that everybody plays the weapon in that way. For example, I could be a person that used a shortbow for all of my damage, then switches to my MH sword at 20% health for the evades while my heal is about to come off cooldown, and never use it for damage ever. Or, I could fluently switch and use each weapon an equal amount of time to damage an opponent. etc etc etc.

If we are testing weapon swaps, we have to test every single weapon combination with every possible build setup and compare DPS, and then cross compare DPS across which weapon is being used primarily or whether they are being using evenly.

That is why I am suggesting a bow test, and why I made it a point to highlight that each weapon for the rangers has an intended role (barring the longbow). Axe does condition damage, greatsword is a power heavy weapon, MH sword is a utility weapon based on evades and leaps, with poison and cripple support. Shortbow is a condition damage with control options. What is the longbows role?
If longbows role is a utility role, that’s fine. But in comparison to having another option as a ranged weapon, it would make more logical sense for the longbow to be a power variant of the ranged perspective, and in that case, it does not perform equally against the shortbow, which is why the majority of people have an issue with it, because they feel pigeonholed into the shortbow regardless of how they choose to damage the opponent (if they want to use some type of bow).

I’m not comparing apples to oranges, I’m comparing a bow and how it functions to another bow and how it functions across a span of different combat scenarios that you could be in while using the bow, to see which bow outperforms the other and at what.

KensaiZen.3740:

LB may be at its best at range but it is still viable at close Range. Why? because weapon swap.

LB/GS – use LB to shoot from far. Use barrage over yourself as enemy closes. Swap to GS and fight for 10 seconds. Swap back for Rapid fire burst at point blank range (this negates the moving back and forth dodging the arrows that can be done at max range)

You even have the choice of LB/SB. Use LB at 1200-1500 range. Swap to SB when below 1200 range.

I don’t think anyone uses the LB for its auto.

Now the question. Does the bleed damage from SB = to the same as the LB burst at point blank range?

Just to nitpick the logic a little, you (and you aren’t the first in the thread to do it) have just described how a weapon combination is viable, or even why the greatsword is viable.
Just to be clear, I’m not disagreeing. But if this is supposed to be a direct comparison of longbow vs shortbow, then there shouldn’t be other weapons factored in. It should be a comparison of how each weapon performs and how it compares to the other at close/medium/long range, and what each weapon has access to on the skill bar and through utilities/traits to make it more viable.

The type of comparison you made is like me using a (just an example) pool noodle and rocket launcher combo. I can hit somebody with the noodle all day and it not be effective, then gib them with a rocket launcher. But that doesn’t make the noodle a more viable choice, that makes the rocket launcher a more viable choice.

I’m liking how this thread is going and am glad to see some constructive talk and tests done with these 2 weapons.
To add my 2c/experience/tests in, the biggest differences between the longbow/shortbow are shown in practice(I’ll elaborate after my next point).

One thing that throws off a lot of people off is how each weapon (not just the bows) appear versus how they function. Examples: shortbow appears to be a rangers main choice for ranged condition damage on a weapon set. Longbow then, by comparison, would be the logical choice for a power spec. However, when the damage on the longbow basically matches the shortbow in a majority of instances, it is hard to justify using a longbow in a power spec in comparison to the longbow, and the longbow, due to its skills function, gets relegated to a utility weapon.
The Axe/MH sword/greatsword trinity, because of the updates, now reflects a much clearer function for each weapon (condition/utility/power) respectively.
(note that in terms of these weapons, I am not saying that you can’t run them in certain specs, but that each weapon has a focus on an role based on the damage and functions of skills as a whole on its bar).

Whether the longbow was MEANT to be a utility weapon, or whether it was designed as a the equalizer to its condition variant (the shortbow), only the devs know. But people are upset because logically, the shortbow has every indication that it is the condition weapon and thereby the longbow should be able to do equal damage with equal power, and then out DPS in a glass build.

The other “in practice” point I mentioned was that personally I love longbow… against dummies. But primarily speaking from an spvp point of view, in fights, an opponent is going to do everything they can to make sure you can’t hit them, and most opponents will attempt to close the gap and then strafe around you at a close distance (if they are ranged as well) attempting to break your line of sight and cancel you skills, while melee opponents do the same, but up in your face.
In this situation, the shortbow outshines the longbow simply because of the firerate (challenge: name ANY game where players don’t have the tendency to favor high fire rate weapons), because landing more arrows means higher DPS, and the longbow does not do the damage per arrow to keep up the the shortbows more consistent damage output against an active player.

The longbow could really in the end just use more access to CC options (through either utilities/weapon skills/traits) that have a fair cooldown but allow the longbow user to keep a more constant pressure on a target than what they are capable of. That’s just my opinion though, some people are fine with its utility role. I want it to be a power weapon (over just utility) because I enjoy the skills on it better than shortbow, but longbow is just impractical for how I play in spvp at the end of the day.

Most peoples mindsets are stuck on range. For me personally, it’s a playstyle choice, and then I use my sword/torch off hand as a defensive set or when I want to flame on.

I never felt it was advantageous to mob dive, and would rather sit at a distance away from somebody and pick at them (in guild wars 1 I could punish them with interrupts and provide much more group support by disabling key skills, something I am sad to see removed). However, guild wars 2, even though claiming to be a team game, emphasizes solo damage output and solo skirmishes much more than guild wars 1 ever did.
So while I love the ranged concept, I am disheartened at what it isn’t, and a masochist for continuing to build primarily around bow gameplay despite the lack of complimentary utilities and traits (traits only in comparison to other traits available to other classes for their ranged weapons).

3 words and one contraction that I miss reading more than anything from guild wars 1 when I would pvp. Granted that I didn’t solo as much as I do now, but regardless of what profession I play in this game, I feel that those words simply aren’t applicable to Guild Wars 2.
Granted that no, you couldn’t just run with anything you threw together, but generally, most people were aware of their professions meta-builds and built around them, and there were most definitely more than 1-2 for every class (I would average 5 for every class).

I know most people that consistently pvp are already more than aware of the issue, and I am aware that more game modes and functions could help to alleviate that issue. But this “slow change” philosophy has left an extremely stagnant metagame and is one of the main causes of there being so much openly expressed frustration on so many (including spvp) subforums.

Simple things, like changing quickness which affects stomping, but leaving invulnerability stomping in the game serves to immediately show distinct advantages that classes have over each other.

The main purpose of this post/thread is to reiterate the idea that maybe we should go about curing the stagnant metagame a little faster than what the last 6 months indicate, otherwise the pvp community will never see healthy expansion (on top of all the mechanics and game modes that have been previously alluded to vaguely).

Since this is a very good thread that hasn’t been hit with all of the people that have different ideas about what the shortcomings are for the ranger (I say different to be respectful, I honestly do not agree with most of what people think the issues are).

So, after playing multiple other professions, and speaking mainly from a pvp environment (which is what the game is primarily balanced around for those that aren’t aware, there is a quote buried somewhere on these forums that states that from a dev, and I’m not hunting for it), rangers only have 2 real major shortcomings that are not pet mechanic related(pets are mechanic related and hard to fix due to time constraints and balance constraints):
1)not enough viable utilities to be competitive with the ones that are currently considered “meta”
2)not enough viable traits to rival the effectiveness of traits chosen in builds currently considered “meta”, either due to the effect of the trait or that the trait is referencing a subpar utility

That really is the only issue, and I have had the same issue on every other class in the game. I don’t get frustrated with the game like a lot of the people in the community do because they think “the devs are wrong.” I get frustrated because it is an acknowledged issue that isn’t being addressed quickly enough based on when the devs openly acknowledge issues. There has to be a compromise between the communities frustration and the devs “small tweak” philosophy at some point, as it seems the frustration from the community is reaching a climax.

Back on point, the OP is absolutely right to encourage people to play more professions, because a lot of the balance posts IN EVERY PROFESSION FORUM consist of people claiming their class is underpowered based solely on their lack of performance versus how they perceive other people to be performing. Upon playing other classes, people begin to realize that every class has certain weapon/utility/trait options that outshine the rest of their choices.