Guild Wars 2

Naoko.7096:

Now, what happen after you ate up the whole carrot?
You’ll ask for more. After you ate the carrot, you want another bigger carrot. That is progression. If there’s no more carrot, players get impatient and leave. It’s part of human nature. That’s what mmorpg’ers wants. After each goal is achieve, there must be another goal and not a wall. If there’s a wall, it’s the same as console games.

The carrrot, to me, is the content of the game. And you’re right – should I have consumed it fully, I’d like more content.

What’s content? To me it is:
- 100% map completion,
- all zones not just “completed” but truly played through with most events and all,
- gear looking the way I want it to,
- all dungeons mastered,
- all jumping puzzles mastered,
- all classes I’m interested in levelled

What’s not content?
- 6 slots of armor,
- 6 slots for weapons,
- 6 slots for acessories.

Content is not “chewed up” once these 18 slots are maxed out. Maxing out those 18 slots is nothing but the access-pass to carelessly doing the things listed first.

So, when I’m eventually asking for new content, I’ll be asking for new dungeons, not dungeons requiring and granting better gear. I’ll be asking for new zones, not higher level zones. I’ll be asking for new puzzles. I’ll be asking for new cosmetics.

And what I’d eventually be asking for was what was originally announced GW2 would be like.

HiddenNick.7206:

Jnaathra.6549:

Generally people do not like to be lied to. I don’t see why this is so shocking.

You don’t get my point… I don’t think they were lied to.

How is the pink ring making their exotic armor any weeker then before?

For me trademill and adding a purple ring once a month are just two different things. Are you shocked that I’m thinking this way?

Sigh.

Please, could you, too, read up on all the information that was given so far before posting uninformed opinions that are, sorry, either false or misleading?

For one:

The ring doesn’t make any weapon or armor obsolete. Weapons and armor with superior stats will do so. And it’s been said officially that there will eventually be a complete ascended set. So ascended weapons and armor will come. That’s a given. It’s announced. It’s in the blogpost.

Now, you can ignore the facts, plant your fingers in your ears and pretend that it’s only a ring. But please don’t sully conversations between others with misinformation.

But what’s worse:

The rings already render one profession (juwelcrafting) pretty useless. Would you still buy an exotic ring on the TP that’s more expensive than exotic armor? It requires more (expensive) materials, so the higher price is justified. But noone will want to pay that money now that better rings are around the corner, coming from some dungeon.

So the rings already hurt the economy. The damage is done before the patch is even life.

Bardes.1870:

Who told you they can’t be upgraded with sigil and rune?

ArenaNet did.

Read the blogpost. Stay current on the Devtracker. Get informed. It’s tiring to explain the same well known facts over and over again. The information is out there, all under the domain “guildwars2.com”. Please read up on it.

Naoko.7096:

Progression is vital for every mmo.
It makes players feel like doing X/Y/Z each time they login.
Have faith in them and see.

You see, I knew very well what to do when I logged on. I don’t need the carrot to be on a stick to start walking. I’ll rather chew on it while going where I want to go.

However, I, too, will not invest lots of time to get something that I’ll ditch soon after. So I’ll not do anything that’ll be “working towards an exotic” in any way, shape or form. I’d do dungeon runs, yes. Dungeons are what’s most fun for me. However, since my last dungeon runs were all marred by bugs, I’m not inclined to go there before they are fixed.

So since the anouncement of abandoned gear, I didn’t log on anymore.

Receiving anything that would have been nice to have because it meant another step towards highest-level-gear would only remind me of how betrayed I feel, so I’d rather avoid that. Getting my alt to 80 would remind me of how futile equipping him would be, so I’ll rather not even level him to 80 to avoid being confronted with what I know will be a sad feeling.

Thanks ArenaNet.

HiddenNick.7206:

So you those 600hours was work for you? Or fun? If it was fun then what’s the problem?

It was fun to build that castle in the sand-box as a child. It was frustrating when someone came and knocked it over.

Crude and childish analogies aside, the greatest feeling I ever had in this game was when I got my last exotic. Total freedom. There was nothing that I couldn’t theoretically do and at the same time, there was nothing that I could possibly have to do in order to do something else.

Then along comes assaulted gear and with it the exact opposite feeling.

Sure, most of the time was fun. But some of it was less fun, yet still rewarding because I knew that it would soon grant me the freedom described above. You see, I, too, strive for certain things in the game. Those are (1) cosmetics and (2) the freedom I described. They’ve taken the latter from me and I’m not even going to farm cosmetics now, knowing that I’ll soon have to spend cash for fine transmutation stones if I want to keep the looks on the next tier of equipment that’s already announced (even though no ETA is given so far).

Sure, the ~600 hours dumped into getting several sets of gear so far have been / will be devalued to zero. Arenanet once promised to honor the players’ time. Well, they kitten don’t give a flying kitten about the time I already invested, blindly trusting the lies they spread in their “manifesto” and similar texts.

Overreacting?

Depends. I’m mad as hell if I think about the lost hours. I’ll not overreact, though. I’ll give them once last chance. If they break any more promises that are important to me, I’m simply gone. In the meantime, I’ll surely not re-enter my credit-card information.

Since the announcement of ascended gear, I logged on once, for about half a minute. I deleted my credit card information and logged off again.

Problem is, I don’t even want to get exotics for my alt anymore. Why should I? They’ll be made obsolete by some future dungeon anyway.

I wanted to get a third exotic set for my main, a glass-cannon set, all max damage just to see how big the numbers would get. Seems senseless now. I’d not use it a lot so it would probably be obsoleted after having been used three or four times. I’m not doing that.

I have been saving gold and karma for my alt. However, since I don’t know if I might need it for the next tier of equipment for my main, I’m not going to spend anything on exotic-level items anymore.

I still have some fine transmutation stones. I was also thinking about getting nicer looking equipment and transmuting it to the stats I want. No, not doing that. I’ll need those once ascended level gear is out.

Basically, just the announcement of more powerful gear took all incentive to log on from me.

Grishnak.8021:

I still wonder who´s bringing the money to ANet.
The hardcore players who play more than 5 hours a day or the casuals, with a RL Job and the money to spend in the Gemshop?

But maybe ANet is really going a different way from the other development studios. Other developers startet with a subscription fee and wenn free to play. Maybe ANet may introduce a monthly fee in some months to come?

I´ve been a hardcore gamer too, a long time ago, when I was:

1. in school
2. in university

but money I would not spend above 15 Bucks a month for an online game.
Now with a full-time job I already spend 80 Bucks last month alone for the Gemshop.

I actually wish the folks working for ArenaNet would have the number of gems bought so far displayed underneath the account name when they look at the forum. They should listen more to the people funding their paychecks.

Is this a game for mature players, respecting their (often limited) time(*) or is it a game that caters to whoever whines the loudest?

(*) Respecting time also means that time invested to get gear that was supposed to be “best in slot” for the rest of the game’s lifetime is not devalued by adding a tier of better gear. Alas, that is starting right now.

So do I get this right?

The dungeons are currently bugged like kitten. I didn’t mind, though, because I knew that eventually they would be fixed and I’d simply enjoy them then. Arah not accessible most of the time and if you get in, doors are blocked. SE bugged 2/3. AC burroghs still not reliably hittable for my warrior. I could go on.

However, with the new treadmill, the dungeons will be obsolete long before they are playable. I won’t go back to enjoy them because be then they’ll be irrelevant. They’ll only drop exotic tokens. And if I get the exotic, chances are the next dungeon ArenaNet releases will bring better gear for the slot I just spent the tokens on. So why bother?

As it stands now, content will be obsolete before it’s even playable.

So where does the gear treadmill leave us? With a game that has no playable endgame. Well done indeed, ArenaNet.

Dungeons I can get in without first reading up on the dungeons forum if it’s currently working or not.

I stood in CM story with the alt when the endboss spawned one add too few and the dungeon couldn’t be finished. I tried SE last weekend and we chose path 1 which is currently uber-hard and awaiting its corrective patch. Path 2 also bugged.

Give me working dungeons.

Next expansion, give me interesting bosses.

Might as well do this. World of Guildwars after all.

fourpoundburrito.1698:

I think it is good that everyone is alarmed but the content hasn’t been released yet, so no one exactly what the final stats on the items will be. Again, it’s good to be alarmed so in case Anet was about to walk off this cliff they will hopefully realize their mistake before the content goes live.

Well, they said the stats would be slightly better and they posted an example that turns out lightly better (8% is about half the difference between rare and exotic).

No reason to assume the example is anything like the stuff that’s going life 3 days from now, right? I think that’s called denial. I think it’s save to assume that the examples posted are in fact accurate.

fourpoundburrito.1698:

I realize the gear can be used in WvWvW, but I what I am hoping is that the infusions have very dungeon specific purposes so that the gear is actually on equal terms with current superior runed / upgraded exotics. If that isn’t the case, IMHO Anet is making a big mistake by adding a new tier.

Well, then for what it’s worth, look at the examples posted in the blogposts. And those carry a hefty increase in magicfind, which, converted to somethiing useful, comes out at at least an 8% upgrade to the stats.

Ignoring infusion.

Whatever infusions might add is not even factored into those 8%. Read up first, please.

fourpoundburrito.1698:

I really hope Ascended gear is not advantaged over normal exotics for anything other than dungeons, and especially for WvWvW. I think that will cause a lot of the dedicated WvWvW players to leave the game. The only way I think this will be the case is if the infusion upgrades don’t increase stats at all.

Sorry to rant on you specifically, this goes to everyone posting similar stuff, really.

YES, it affects WvWvW.

Once the full ascended set is out, that’ll be at least an 8% advantage in base stats. It’s been said here time and again and if you take the time to look at the posted item in the blogpost, you can see it for yourself, too.

If it makes you feel better to pretend that we don’t know yet for the next three days, feel free to ignore what’s already known. But don’t confuse others by posting here, uninformed.

MajorMelchett.6042:

So, what do people think will come after Ascended items once all slots are released to keep the grind going?.

It needs to be 1 word and sound better than Exotic and Ascended but not as good as Legendary,

For my guild, it if they go through with this, they could just as well call it “Abandoned”.

Could I please transfer to a server that costs $15 per month to be on but on which all new gear is normalized to be exactly as powerful as exotics?

killcannon.2576:

They want the WoW users. Simple as that. Doesn’t matter if you complain. Money makes more noise.

You hear that…?
No?

That’s the sound of me not spending a dime on GW2 anymore after deleting my credit card informaiton yesterday. Not as loud a sound as I’d like it to be, but the only sound I can make.

Arnath.2319:

It is a good thing then that Ascended items are in no way shape or form and in anyway even remotely close to a “gear treamill”.

Its also a good thing that Arenanet hates “gear treadmills” as much as we do and has not and will not introduce such a system.

Sure. New gear with better stats that’s needed to complete new content, that’s nothing like a gear treadmill, right?

The prospect of upcoming content bringing ever more new, better stat gear with it is no gear treadmill, right?

Please tell me, what’s a gear treadmill, then?

Safer Saviour.9685:

I would like a dev to answer me one question – will Ascended be the only tier of rarity added to this game?

And what if they answered? Would you believe them?

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I’ve been lied to. I don’t trust anymore.

Death by Chickens.6902:

You say they’re adding a treadmill. I say no, they’re adding ONE new tier.

Let’s agree on this: They’re adding ONE new tier at a time.

A dang, that’s how a gear treadmill works. Sorry.

Mungrul.9358:

Turns out I was wrong, and I’ve been mis-sold an entire game that just now chooses to renege on one of the central tenets (if not THE central tenet) of their “Manifesto”.

When I think back to that and how excited I was after watching it, I feel like I could just throw up. Manifesto. All about the player. <insert lots of kittens> A bunch of useless lies to scam us into buying and hyping a game that’s riddled with bugs.

Now that GW2 is “just another MMO”, I (and many others) will be far more likely to pick up the next newest, most shiny MMO that’s “just another MMO”. Elderscrolls Online is supposed to have a native Mac-client, not the encapsulated WINE-thing the GW2 Mac beta sells as “Mac-Version”.

No, I hate the new ascended items.

So, why again should I be playing an MMO with

- mostly broken dungeons (SE path 1 & 2 anyone?)
- lots of broken skills and classes (ele 3rd healing not working according to tooltip, necro)
- unaccessible dungeons
- soon: dedicated end game content consistin of exactly 1 dungeon
- no dungeonfinder for that 1 dungeon
- severe problem with the underlying game engine (invisible armies…)

I can have tiered content without all of that (and pandas) elsewhere. I spent more than EUR15 per month so far on GW2, so that’s a non-argument.

Talloc.6835:

Go back to WoW if you want your +5 rings.

No need to.

Now that GW2 is all about the gear treadmill, too, he can stay with GW2 if he wants his +5 ring.

Although it’s actually +4%. And 4% in three months makes 17% in a year. That’s more than the difference between rare and exotic.

Angrec.6970:

You can quite, you dont play it anymore, dont invite your friends for the invite a friend initiative and you uninstall the game.
1. it will show on their reports with less people actually playing
2. its going to kill their invite a friend initiative
3. there will be no temptation to go back to it if its uninstalled, why should you go back to anet after they go back on everything they originally said?

Yesterday morning, I planned to log on a few hours so my alt reaches 70 and can head to orr. Yesterday evening, I just followed the forum with horror and lost all desire to log on any of my chars. This news alone made me lose all incentive to log on. I’m following your directions.

WHen I came to this thread yesterday saying that I’d just deleted my credit card information, I’ve been told that I’d be immature and that I should wait it out.

Well, no regrets. Just woke up, read the blogpost. Not re-entering it. Forget that.

I’ve been scammed out of quite some money already. I’m not giving a company another dime that lies and betrays their user base. Manifesto is still online but now it feels like they keep it up to add insult to injury.

bcbully.7289:

HTXL.2598:

Most of us are in support of the upcoming update, just a small minority complaining.

Exactly.

Then the two of you bought a game despite something to the contrary being explicitly promised.

Even if you want gear-progression, a game.studio breking its promises so quickly should worry you.

azurrei.5691:

I’m curious as to why people don’t get all fed up with the fact that also, technically, legendaries like Twilight are 1% more powerful than a similar exotic in regards to weapon damage…

Because exotics are 0% better statwise.

Just look at how many players still run Cataclysm-dungeons. You get the idea. better loot in new dungeons means old dungeons obsolete. Saves them the ressources for fixing them if noone goes there anymore.

Leiloni.7951:

What I don’t understand is why a Dev hasn’t burst into this thread to set us all straight. If this new gear was indeed not better statistically than it would be easy enough to just come here and say it. So clearly it is and they feel the need to “explain the reasoning” in a blog post because a short paragraph in a thread post would not be long enough to make us all feel better. Although I have doubts this blog post will, either.

I guess the reasoning is “let the whiner whine, we’ll keep the WoWer that way and that’s worth it.”

Call me alienated.

They basically said that their promises and my expectations combined are worth less than the gear-crybabies that can’t enjoy a game without a carrot on a stick. Well, should a treadmill-free game emerge, I’m gone.

That today, they basically indirectly turned “we’re not saying we won’t” into “we will do everything the way everyone else does it”.

GW1 went for 7.5 years without a gear treadmill, too.

I’d be willing to take bets about the level cap. I’m saying it will be raised with the first expansion. New gear and exotics included.

Well, one thing they managed… instead of enjoying my character, they frustrated me and disillusioned me. I don’t feel like logging on for the first time since… BWE1, really.

Best moment in GW2 was getting my last exotic. Knowing that I could do whatever I wanted to do and be optimally prepared. Knowing I could join whatever I wanted and not be slowing anyone down for lack of equipment.

Total freedom.

Today, the feeling was the opposite. A total let-down. I now know that starting friday, I’m in a race with other players to get infused unless I want to be left behind when the new content is being tackled. Exactly what I hated most about all MMOs I’ve played so far (didn’t play GW1).

MrLee.6892:

Did you read the post that they will be coming out with a blog post about it today.
And no it’s not the “ONLY” thing you can do, you can be patient and wait and see what is going to happen. THEN make your decision.

Jumping the gun on something we all know very little about is silly.

Blogpost is out and has close to zero information. Thanks for nothing, Anet. Still, buffed.de points to an interview with an official who said they introduced teirs so players have someting to work for (I’m paraphrasing). You can keep your head firmly in the sand. I’m just sad they killed the single most appealing aspect of the game. I’ll still play until another game tries to truly ditch teired gear and then hope they will stick to it. But I’m not investing another Euro in this one.

Sigh. It was a fun half year while it lasted.

Sky.9347:

I’m not seeing anything on that page. People have linked it all day, but I still don’t see anything except a one line subheadline thing and three pictures.

Try refreshing (F5).

MrLee.6892:

phooka.4295:

Aaaaand…

…Credit Card information deleted.

LOL you don’t even know the facts yet. kitten

Ist’s the only thing I can do that NCsoft might be even remotely interested in. The only way to voice my Opinion. I’ll encourage players I know (friends & guild) to do the same if they also feel that they don’t want or like the introduction of a gear treadmill.

Aaaaand…

…Credit Card information deleted.

Havana.8625:

I just spent so much money on exotic armor for my THREE level 80 toons. Now all of that is going to be subpar? I would have just waited to outfit. I guess it doesn’t matter because if they up the equipment tiers now, they will do it again.

Guild Wars 1 was a great game BECAUSE of the fact that you could get max gear early, so your skill was what mattered most. Guild Wars 2 is heading in the exact opposite direction.

I’ve been saving up for exotics for my 2nd soon-to-be 80, the first 80 has been equipped with two complete sets! All that wasted money!

I feel lied to.

Kaizer.7135:

Why do I have to party up for the Story?

Because it’s a multiplayer.

And it’s gracious enough to require you to party up for one quest only. If you’re looking for a singleplayer game where you kill old dragons all on your own, it’s called Skyrim and costs even less than GW2. Maybe you can swap it at the store and get a refund?

Robert?

It’s been 21 days or three weeks since you said you were aware of the problem and working on a solution, but yu didn’t have an ETA.

Obviously, we still don’t have a solution. But how about an ETA? Could you at the very least give us that?

Or how about “no sooner than”? Even if you don’t know when it’s going to be finished, you should at least know of a few patches it won’t be in for sure, even if it was finished today. There is testing, build-times etc., so if your developers tell you “surely not finished before the end of next week” you could reasonably make a statement like “not before december-patch”. Any hey, if it comes any sooner, we’d be happy. If it comes later than the “not before” date, that’s to be expected.

fancy dagger feast.7520:

Having one of every race i find it wierd to do jumping puzzles on my charr.

I feel so clunky and big its hard to make precise and accurate jumps

Although i know all races act the same when jumping the visual makes it harder it seems :P

let me know if anyone else thinks so.

I still love my Tanky Charr Warrior

It takes a bit of getting used too, but once you know that only the hind legs count and that if you jump stretched out, the feet will be planted about where your stomach or waistline were “in flight”, it’s OK. I actually did all the jumping puzzles and all the vistas on my Charr.

Right now, I’m levelling an Asura and I must admit that I think the little buggers are more disconcerning. Sometimes they stand in mid-air because the hitbox is so much bigger than the character. I prefer jumpin on the Charr to this.

The only exception is the claustrophobic jumping puzzle behind the well in Lions Arch. The smallest-possible Asura (female, including smallest possible head) still blocks enough of my view in there.

Iehova.9518:

phooka.4295:

Meters are a horrible idea.

No they’re not.

Meters in the hands of bad players are a horrible idea.

Fixed that for ya.

Meters are a horrible idea because meters in the hands of bad players are a horrible idea and there’s lots of bad players in every game, everyone will encounter them and suffer for it.

Fix that.

DivineBeing.2086:

If you are DPSing just as well with any class with your condition damage via auto-attack than there should be no problem to measure the amount of damage each person has done in the entire run since you are DPSing still.

And to help make it more balance since you state that most of your skills are situational, than make a couple catagories:

- Overall Damage Dealt
- Overall Condition Damage Dealt
- Overall Damage Taken
- Overall Condition Damage Taken
- Overall Heal Amount Dealt
- Overall Heal Amount Received
- Number of Knockbacks Dealt
- Number of Knockdowns Dealt
- Number of Dodgerolls
- Number of Deaths
- Number of Revives Dealt
- Number of Revives Received

That should pretty much accurately describe who did what and how much that said person contributed throughout the dungeon run.

And by introducing all this, you achieve two things:

(1) You just created a comprehensive to-do list for players in dungeons. Doing stuff not on the list will have you risk being talked down or thrown out by PUGs.

(2) You have just handed bad players a tool to berate others. Be it because those others are doing things not on the list or doing things that are on the list but that are deemed “less important” by the bad player berating them.

Congratulations.

Meters are a horrible idea.

Edit:
Stuff not on the list:

- Kiting.
- Stopping to DPS to run over to another player a long way and revive there.
- Stopping to DPS and run over to a ranged player to help them kill a mob standing in their face (so the fellow player doesn’t go down).
- Going down or being killed but for a reason, for example to bind some mobs long enough so the others can DPS freely.
- Stopping a high-damage channelled ability to help out another player.
- Sacrificing DPS to kill stuff that others have problems with. For example rangers switching to axe for TA 1st boss so melee classes don’t have to worry about blossoms.

All these things are just examples of good group-play that would be punished by the type of meter you propose. It would be punished because a meter won’t show players helping their group at the expense of better numbers in the statistics.

I repeat: Meters are a horrible idea that would kill group-play (in PUGs) as it has done in other games. But in GW2, group play is more important so the damage would be greater.

Edit 2:
More stuff punished by the existance of meters:

- Having a build that helps others. Major traits like “grants 70 power to nearby players” are a wasted trait. What’s worse, they make you look worse by making the others look better while not using that major trait slot for something that makes you look good.
- Having utilities slotted that help others rather than pushing your DPS.

In this way, the introduction of meters might not only degrade group-play but even affect the way people build their character, maybe even to the point where their ability for good group play suffers from it.

Don’t introduce meters unless you want to kill group-play just so that some players can stoke their egos!

Edit 3:
This time not adding points why meters are bad idea in general but why the list you’ve given won’t achieve what you said it should.

You said that in order to capture situational abilities and their contribution to the success of the group, you’d introduce the categories you listed. let’s see…
- Number of Knockbacks Dealt
- Number of Knockdowns Dealt
That means in order to look good, I’ll use all my situational skills on cooldown and not save them to interrupt dangerous abilities that might hit groupmembers of mine. Great idea. Not.

Not everything we do can be assessed by simply looking at numbers – but looking at numbers is all a meter can do. A meter will therefore tempt players to also just look at numbers, at aggregated numbers even, and to judge others based on such flawed statistics.

I guess you think that more good will come from it than bad. I think you underestimate the immaturity of significant parts of the playerbase. Just look at what DPS-meters and gearscore and other numbers-based tools did to other MMOs.

arcaneclarity.5283:

I think players and developers underestimate just how badly instanced dungeons hurts a world’s population.

This is so true. Look at the most successful MMO to date: WoW. Sure, it had lots of instanced dungeons (and raids). But it also had Jinta Alor which was like a dungeon but in the open world, not instanced. This alone must surely have been what made that game the huge success it undeniably was.

Barricade.3210:

Ever been to a dungeon where u play hard as ever to finish a dungeon efficiently just to see a random player who joined your party and simply press autoattack the rest of the fight? How I wish this game would make a meter to see dps, heals, etc. to measure workrate of players.

Even been to a dungeon where you, as a sword & board warrior, pull tons of aggro, kite like hell (while not using many skills except the occasional dodge or autoattack) and die or go down often while buying your team precious time to kill the mobs?

On your metric, that player would be horrible.

Reminds me of WoW and the member of the dungeon-group that was kicked for lack of DPS before he could even type “but I’m the healer, guys”.

In a game that requires so much more than simple DPS and skill-rotation, such a meter is an invitation for bad players or players who are bad at reading meters to unjustly bash others.

The result? Everyone trying to look good on the meters. Res the downed player? Sorry, my long-CD-weaponskill just came off CD. Over all, the worst idea I’ve ever seen on this forum.

Siphaed.9235:

Why are there topics demanding server mergers, demanding a shorter transfer limitation, and saying “this game is dying” and “people are leaving”?

If you like something, you’Re uncool. If nothing ever satisfies your high standarts, you’re cool. Threfore, everything around you has to be failing, dying, not be good enough.

Seeing doom and gloom is so much cooler than simply having fun at something. When I log on, I see a guild that’s growing, people playing, I have fun doing… whatever I happen to do that night.

I must be shallow and easy to please.

I must be weird.

I like Orr. When I got nothing to do (like, my regular dungeon group isn’t on. I like the dungeons.) I often go to the cursed shore or malchr’s leap to walk around, chop wood, kill stuff and do events I happen to come across.

I like the desnity of the events.

I like the density of the NPCs but I do concur, there should be more than 3 or 5 different types for the daily kill variety.

I like the questchains and while some are broken sometimes, most are OK most of the time on my server.

I think Orr is a great place. I like it. I’m sorry.