(edited by xKole.9175)
Showing Posts For xKole.9175:
Just watched PoF release, more new specs, but still no new skills… why?
I heard a couple years ago new skills were “on the table,” which is why I keep checking up on Anet and the game. Is this just a pipe dream for me? I just want to love this game and come back. Does anyone else feel as if new skills would be extremely refreshing for the game, or is the majority of players totally cool with just more specs? They just aren’t enough for me to come back to the game.
First off, Leo G, you’re a breath of fresh air. Someone who actually reads what I write and processes it, rather than immediately jumping to conclusions about what I do or don’t want to do to the game? Is this, like, an early April Fool’s joke or something? xD
As for the rest of this thread… yeah, this is pretty much what I expected when I saw this thread pop up this morning.
/sigh.I’ll exit this conversation by stating that I did not suggest any alterations to the game in any way shape or form. I merely made some observations and then posed a question. A rhetorical question mind you, the entire point of which is to get people to… you know, think.
But please, by all means continue to jump to conclusions, make assumptions, and generally take “being obtuse,” to olympian levels of artistry.
I on the other hand will depart and go play one of the 8 different fully ascended Berzerker equipped proffessions that I’ve spent the past nine hundred and forty eight days playing (so much for the “people who complain about diversity are only the people who don’t play meta builds” theory, huh?)
Hurray…..
This. Leo G, I appreciate your well thought post more than you know! Haha
Also, Krestfallen, same goes to you. These were the replies I was most hoping for; ideas, thoughts, and well said general input.
This most likely will be my last post as well, but I will say that it kind of leaves me bewildered that all the people who said I can do everything in my zerker gear believe that that is not a design flaw. Just makes me curious what the purpose is (and what I hope will be) of the gear stats that are used by less than 2% of the games population.
April Fools has made this thread die I’m sure. However I thought of something earlier today to help see things from a different perspective. What if all the enemies hit so hard, and much quicker that EVERYONE should have pure toughness/healing power on their armor. Now, in this case let’s say that a group COULD use zerker gear, however they died more often and the general dungeon run would take longer because they were constantly spread out and dodging everywhere and trying to get resurrections off. The concept is the same, but reversed. I feel like if it was this way, everyone might be singing a different tune EXCEPT the players who enjoyed playing more tanky and supportive roles. Also this way would include your support skills as does the DPS builds/gear of course. Maybe it doesn’t sound as fun this way to some people because the BEST way to do dungeons/fractals is having pure tanky gear and the thieves and elems can’t do the DPS they want because they don;t want to get one shot by almost every hit.
Just some food for thought I guess.
Party wide support and control is very important and necessary. It’s just that a non-dps build offers the same support and control a dps build does.
This is so accurate.
However, do you not see this as an issue at all?
you cant be a tank both in gw1 and gw2 because you have no control over mob aggro;
- forcing roles in party is going to limit, not extend players options;
- gear is not a build;
- you are not forced to play with zerk speedrunners, if you do so its your choice;
- make your own lfg;
- there are many trinity games, try them if you want to experience build/group limitations;
- learn to play;is there anything I forgot? there should be a pin-up on forums for trinity whiners with all the answers in one place so we dont need to answer them all the time
btw you’re talking about dungeons not general pve; go open world, the amount of 111111111 versatility is amazing and you can kill dragons with any gear there
Thank you for the maturity. Anet actually said that their is 3 roles to play. DPS, support, and control. However DPS is GOD in this game by far as voted by the player base and to be honest for good reason. Not asking to force roles, just wanting control and support builds/specs to be more reasonable and rewarding ways to play. I like doing dungeons, and yes btw there ALREADY is forced roles. I mean role* DPS.
It literally sounds like most players want to do EVERYTHING, AT ALL TIMES, with ANYTHING. What is the purpose of classes in this game? lol Such little diversity in the BIG picture….
That’s what having versatility means. You have the ability to do nearly everything, however in this game you have a limited amount of skills to work with (and traits), so although you have the potential to fill all roles, it’s how you change your build before each encounter that makes a character truly versatile.
As an example, if I fight a big boss that allows me to get behind them for backstabs, I will use Dagger / Dagger on the Thief. Do I need to stealth my group to skip some dungeon parts? I will use a full Stealth build, traits, skills and weapons, to do so. Do I need to provide blind fields to more easily fight trash mobs? I can get an offhand weapon and/or smoke screen and do so very well. Does the boss have constant condition pressure? I’ll get condi removal on stealth.
I can switch my whole playstyle and overall my ability in a short time (when they implement build save/load it will only take a couple of seconds) and guess what, I never have to change gear stats for any of it. If I had to change my whole gear to fill the different roles then chances are I wouldn’t even change my build, ever. I would stay with the same boring build doing the same thing on all encounters, like in Trinity games, instead of changing playstyles on almost every single encounter.
Different classes provide different types of support and control. Different amounts of projectile reflects, might stacking, blind fields, fury uptime, protection, aegis, fear, immobilize etc Almost every class has something they do better than the others, that’s why it’s all about team composition
That last sentence just got me. This game compared to almost every other MMO I have played has had the LEAST by far focus on team composition because of EVERYTHING you said before that. Everyone CAN do EVERYTHING. Yes, some do better than others at certain things, but not quite enough to make it important to care about team composition. I mean… literally every single group I have run a dungeon or fractal with took the first 5 to join and went in. Only one stipulation that I must have said 14 times in this thread “Zerker only” lol. It’s cool that it works this way to an extent, but why level my warrior when I have a thief at 80? I can “switch my whole playstyle” as you said.
I am in. Hahah that is what I needed for me to remain a GW2 player. Thank you!
I think you’re right about me not fully understanding as I just got back into the game, haha. But, in dungeons, who WANTS a Mesmer? lol I’m not saying it’s not viable, what I’m saying is that it’s not wanted, OR as effective as Warriors, Elems, Guards, or Thiefs. As for the weapon builds, I again agree with you on the support of using the blind fields with your pistol as a Thief for example, but again that’s just necessary filler between DPS. There is no other SPECIALIZATION as effective as damage. Not “specialization” as in traits, I mean as a character as a whole.
There isn’t a specialization as effective as damage, but I’m not sure there can be. Without the original trinity, most of the focus has to be DPS. How could a control build compete with DPS? And I don’t mean within the possible control in the game. I mean how could you change control to be as effective as DPS? You’d have to both redesign classes to be able to fully be dedicated to control, and also have encounters require that control. But that moves in the direction of required builds. And despite what some people will say on these forums, zerker is not required to play this game. Required to join some groups? Sure. Optimal? Sure. But not actually required. And that’s one of the huge selling points Anet tried to get across. You don’t need healers. You don’t need tanks. You can bring the build you want. It may be extremely suboptimal. But you can get through content with it.
I’m honestly just unsure if you can both set up a game that offers a “play how you want” and also require classes other than DPS to be extremely effective. They seem contradictory. I think what the game needs is a sort of hard mode. Where groups who are willing to fit into more specific roles can have that higher level, required build content. And normal mode can still just be done with whatever. But I honestly don’t see that happening. The attention dungeons have gotten in over a year have been extremely minimal.
The way to make control build and support builds as effective as DPS is actually pretty simple in my opinion.
For control:
Skale Venom for example, have the duration last longer the more X stat you have. Same with blind, or any conditions. Conditions are a joke (so I hear) so why not have those scaling abilities? (Besides “condition DAMAGE”)Support:
More/longer stacks of might with X stat, longer stability with X stat, etc.This way there’s a much greater reason for a Guardian to put points into “Healing power” which would increase the intensity and duration of his boons for example.
I’m not being rude, but it is a pretty simple idea lol :P
It’s simple but it’s not (more) balanced. Coordinated groups can already CC bosses a good chunk of the time. To allow them to do it even further would make already fairly easy dungeons an even bigger joke. Boon duration being tied into healing power is an interesting concept. I’m not sure how I feel about it. Though I think with metas being focused around 2 eles + 1 warrior, you’d have to nerf boon duration into the absolute ground to have them not be able to reliably stack might. And at the moment both ideas are unclear to me what all the reaching implications would be out of dungeons, which Anet has a far bigger focus on.
Agreed, however with the scaling of boons and such, the coordinated CC on bosses would be more dependent on the support/control classes. So the DPS players who spec fully into damage all around wouldn’t have any CC worthwhile with extremely weak CC scaling
ex: .2 second stun with 0 spec into X trait/stat.
2 second stun with 200 spec into X trait/stat.Therefore the support/control roles would FINALLY be WANTED lol
No, they would be REQUIRED, which isn’t what anet is looking for. They don’t want people sitting in lfg saying “lf Control mesmer gtg” for an hour. [shudder] oh god the BC memories in shattarath just came back…
Hahaha, very good point. However, look at all the dungeon LFGs. “Zerker only” which fixes your problem because that means 95% just have zerker gear so 95% can always play. It’s a fix to the problem… that creates the same problem in an extremely simple dull reverse way.
Certain things require more coordination. You’ll often find that organized guilds will run things quite different rather than DPS-this-and-that. I like to coin the term “one-dimensional thinking” and that’s what I think of the meta of this game. It’s true that it exists for a reason but there are other ways of doing things that can be faster and more efficient. You just have to find the right guild(s) and group(s) that do that.
Well said. I would love to find a guild like this, though. Also, thanks weskay!
(edited by xKole.9175)
It literally sounds like most players want to do EVERYTHING, AT ALL TIMES, with ANYTHING. What is the purpose of classes in this game? lol Such little diversity in the BIG picture….
I think you’re right about me not fully understanding as I just got back into the game, haha. But, in dungeons, who WANTS a Mesmer? lol I’m not saying it’s not viable, what I’m saying is that it’s not wanted, OR as effective as Warriors, Elems, Guards, or Thiefs. As for the weapon builds, I again agree with you on the support of using the blind fields with your pistol as a Thief for example, but again that’s just necessary filler between DPS. There is no other SPECIALIZATION as effective as damage. Not “specialization” as in traits, I mean as a character as a whole.
There isn’t a specialization as effective as damage, but I’m not sure there can be. Without the original trinity, most of the focus has to be DPS. How could a control build compete with DPS? And I don’t mean within the possible control in the game. I mean how could you change control to be as effective as DPS? You’d have to both redesign classes to be able to fully be dedicated to control, and also have encounters require that control. But that moves in the direction of required builds. And despite what some people will say on these forums, zerker is not required to play this game. Required to join some groups? Sure. Optimal? Sure. But not actually required. And that’s one of the huge selling points Anet tried to get across. You don’t need healers. You don’t need tanks. You can bring the build you want. It may be extremely suboptimal. But you can get through content with it.
I’m honestly just unsure if you can both set up a game that offers a “play how you want” and also require classes other than DPS to be extremely effective. They seem contradictory. I think what the game needs is a sort of hard mode. Where groups who are willing to fit into more specific roles can have that higher level, required build content. And normal mode can still just be done with whatever. But I honestly don’t see that happening. The attention dungeons have gotten in over a year have been extremely minimal.
The way to make control build and support builds as effective as DPS is actually pretty simple in my opinion.
For control:
Skale Venom for example, have the duration last longer the more X stat you have. Same with blind, or any conditions. Conditions are a joke (so I hear) so why not have those scaling abilities? (Besides “condition DAMAGE”)Support:
More/longer stacks of might with X stat, longer stability with X stat, etc.This way there’s a much greater reason for a Guardian to put points into “Healing power” which would increase the intensity and duration of his boons for example.
I’m not being rude, but it is a pretty simple idea lol :P
It’s simple but it’s not (more) balanced. Coordinated groups can already CC bosses a good chunk of the time. To allow them to do it even further would make already fairly easy dungeons an even bigger joke. Boon duration being tied into healing power is an interesting concept. I’m not sure how I feel about it. Though I think with metas being focused around 2 eles + 1 warrior, you’d have to nerf boon duration into the absolute ground to have them not be able to reliably stack might. And at the moment both ideas are unclear to me what all the reaching implications would be out of dungeons, which Anet has a far bigger focus on.
Agreed, however with the scaling of boons and such, the coordinated CC on bosses would be more dependent on the support/control classes. So the DPS players who spec fully into damage all around wouldn’t have any CC worthwhile with extremely weak CC scaling
ex: .2 second stun with 0 spec into X trait/stat.
2 second stun with 200 spec into X trait/stat.
Therefore the support/control roles would FINALLY be WANTED lol
Well put, with everyone being self-sufficient I don’t ever feel like anyone relies on anyone for anything except “hit that thing.”
your groups arent using:
Reflection
Blind
Protection
Cleanse
Might
Fury
Etc?Of course, but that doesn’t change the fact that EVERYONE ONLY specializes in damage. That doesn’t add versatility in my opinion. It’s just (necessary) filler between DAMAGES. lol
Actually no they are not specializing only in damage. Simply because you don’t understand it doesn’t make it so. All those above mentioned by Ashen (and there are even more) are essential for an optimal run and none are actually dealing damage.
What would NOT add versatility, is having one character control, one character support, and three dps, where exactly is the versatility there? By allowing everyone to fill multiple roles at the same time you have more versatility overall, not less.
The only thing that is missing, and there is slight problem there, is gear stats. The fact that you can control/support equally well in Berserker gear and with any other type of gear. Gear != Build, your skills and traits define your build, a Warrior using Phalanx Strength plays differently to a Warrior using pure Damage spec, yet they both use Berserker Gear. An Elementalist using Staff plays a lot differently to a D/F Elementalist, although, once again, they both use Berserker gear.
But even then, let’s ask ourselves, do we really want to LIMIT roles to specific gear stats? Do you really want to force someone to change their stats in order to Support or Control properly? Wouldn’t that actually LIMIT versatility and build choice instead of increasing it?
Like I said, though… They are NECESSARY filler between damage. No one is specializing in these things. They just have them in their builds and use them between dealing damage (at opportune times of course). There is a MASSIVE lack in creativity (versatility) in effective builds because they HAVE to include damage, damage, and some damage. Regardless of the damage you deal, those buffs will come with your build. Why not have these DPS players NOT have access to buffs AS MUCH as players who want to play a support role? Everyone is literally doing the same thing, dealing damage, and throwing down your boons and conditions. Everyone has everything ALL THE TIME. That’s what I mean by specialization. Not one build TRULY stands out like doing DPS, and throwing in your conditions and boons when applicable.
I think you’re right about me not fully understanding as I just got back into the game, haha. But, in dungeons, who WANTS a Mesmer? lol I’m not saying it’s not viable, what I’m saying is that it’s not wanted, OR as effective as Warriors, Elems, Guards, or Thiefs. As for the weapon builds, I again agree with you on the support of using the blind fields with your pistol as a Thief for example, but again that’s just necessary filler between DPS. There is no other SPECIALIZATION as effective as damage. Not “specialization” as in traits, I mean as a character as a whole.
There isn’t a specialization as effective as damage, but I’m not sure there can be. Without the original trinity, most of the focus has to be DPS. How could a control build compete with DPS? And I don’t mean within the possible control in the game. I mean how could you change control to be as effective as DPS? You’d have to both redesign classes to be able to fully be dedicated to control, and also have encounters require that control. But that moves in the direction of required builds. And despite what some people will say on these forums, zerker is not required to play this game. Required to join some groups? Sure. Optimal? Sure. But not actually required. And that’s one of the huge selling points Anet tried to get across. You don’t need healers. You don’t need tanks. You can bring the build you want. It may be extremely suboptimal. But you can get through content with it.
I’m honestly just unsure if you can both set up a game that offers a “play how you want” and also require classes other than DPS to be extremely effective. They seem contradictory. I think what the game needs is a sort of hard mode. Where groups who are willing to fit into more specific roles can have that higher level, required build content. And normal mode can still just be done with whatever. But I honestly don’t see that happening. The attention dungeons have gotten in over a year have been extremely minimal.
The way to make control build and support builds as effective as DPS is actually pretty simple in my opinion.
For control:
Skale Venom for example, have the duration last longer the more X stat you have. Same with blind, or any conditions. Conditions are a joke (so I hear) so why not have those scaling abilities? (Besides “condition DAMAGE”)
Support:
More/longer stacks of might with X stat, longer stability with X stat, etc.
This way there’s a much greater reason for a Guardian to put points into “Healing power” which would increase the intensity and duration of his boons for example.
I’m not being rude, but it is a pretty simple idea lol :P
(edited by xKole.9175)
Also, yes… To an extent being self sufficient is awesome :P
Being self sufficient is awesome. No more hours of waiting on that tank that will kitten up the fight for another hour straight. Not to mention how much passive play this is compared to the fast paced combat of gw2.
I guess as simply put as I can, I never feel like I have to try or think in a dungeon. I just hit enemies, then hit my support/control abilities depending on the enemy. “Oh a melee enemy! Auto, auto, blind, auto, blind, auto.” lol
I don’t think you understand what you are asking for. At least not fully. You complain that there is lack of diversity (zerker – an armor stat), and yet want control builds. What armor stat in this game boosts control builds? There isn’t one. Control builds come from your traits and weapons, not your armor stat. The meta for mesmer is assassins/zerker gear, but a lot of the times the traits aren’t set up for full DPS. The reflect line is often used to boost their support/control (I’m unsure whether to consider more reflects support or control – though I’d more consider it control by stopping the enemy). The same thing goes for meta guardian in fotm. A lot of times hammer is ran for it’s autoattack protection symbol. Phalanx build on warrior is ran to boost team at the sacrifice of itself. Thief will run offhand pistol for blind fields instead of dagger, which has higher DPS and shortbow for blast fields. You can very much be a control oriented class, while still using zerker gear. That’s something this community has yet to grasp. As for support, in terms of direct healing, yes, there isn’t much use of either traiting or gear speccing for it.
I think you’re right about me not fully understanding as I just got back into the game, haha. But, in dungeons, who WANTS a Mesmer? lol I’m not saying it’s not viable, what I’m saying is that it’s not wanted, OR as effective as Warriors, Elems, Guards, or Thiefs. As for the weapon builds, I again agree with you on the support of using the blind fields with your pistol as a Thief for example, but again that’s just necessary filler between DPS. There is no other SPECIALIZATION as effective as damage. Not “specialization” as in traits, I mean as a character as a whole.
Well put, with everyone being self-sufficient I don’t ever feel like anyone relies on anyone for anything except “hit that thing.”
your groups arent using:
Reflection
Blind
Protection
Cleanse
Might
Fury
Etc?
Of course, but that doesn’t change the fact that EVERYONE ONLY specializes in damage. That doesn’t add versatility in my opinion. It’s just (necessary) filler between DAMAGES. lol
Well put, with everyone being self-sufficient I don’t ever feel like anyone relies on anyone for anything except “hit that thing.”
So, I like to run dungeons, I just started doing Fractals, and I occasionally do some World Boss Farming. I’m a PvE player and these seem to be the best ways to get loot and have some fun group challenging content.
However… DPS, DPS, DPS. I get not having the holy trinity (feels like I’m swearing by saying “holy trinity” here) but seriously, everyone is just DPS, that’s it. It feels like there is zero versatility in PvE that can be taken seriously. Yes, you CAN do support builds, and yup, “control” builds too, I just wish that other builds besides “ZERKER ONLY” could be as rewarding as DPS. When I say rewarding I also mean having equal and/or reliable impact.
I can’t even blame all LFG descriptions saying “zerker only” because that is IN FACT the best and fastest way to get through a dungeon and get your reward.
I was just curious about the community’s opinion on this. Thanks
Probably already suggested but I couldn’t find it.
Simply put – give us more skills for each weapon that we can swap out and around the skill bar. Much like utility skills, in the sense you can change them. However, the new skills are weapon specific.
Why? Well – why not?
For example, I love my D/D thief. That’s my play style with a thief, and unfortunately I just don’t enjoy playing with other weapons as much on my thief. However, I’m tired of the same 5 skills when I feel like I could use another skill to sync so much better than “Dancing Dagger.” (just an example)
I also feel when you choose your weapon, you actually just choose what type of damage you want to deal. Engineers in my opinion are the worst in that sense. (Yeah, you get kits – I know)
The main point is, combat is getting so boring for me due to a lack of versatility.