Guild Wars 2

Frankly mes set up was hard enough this is at least fair and on par with other glass cannons which btw do more with less setup… and it’s not like a full shatter is a be all end all /gg. Most classes survive it except maybe thief without initiative. There is a lot more play pre and post shatter.

Not to mention Mes is bottom tier and the most viable spec is hard countered by a lot of things in the meta, and none of these changes are likely to change that. 1v1’s shouldn’t be a problem unless you are completely outplayed, and even if you are you still get the cap.

in the current system pre patch I-leap + swap is worthless beyond baiting a doge. and if you cannot read the default summon animation or doge as a clone appears in your face. Then it’s time to get a pair of glasses and some APM.

As for the condi stuff… theres a lot of low risk crap in this game, I don’t approve of the indirect buff to PU but well if other no risk builds weren’t as strong they wouldn’t have to buff it.

The changes to Mesmer were great, good job anet!… but then there’s the torment on scepter auto. Please god. No.

phirefox.2568:

nicknamenick.2437:

zaxon.6819:

i agree with pindown being more telegraphed.. so heres the deal.. ill trade you ileap for pindown.. and we will call it a day.

these arguments are so bad.

But sure and now place it on my GS so i can have a 100% 100b all the time just like you can with blurred frenzy

Mesmer Sword has the second-weakest Sword AA in the Game (Powerwise), and if you actually take the Warrior’s Sword’s bleeding application (even on builds with 0 conditiondamage) in mind, it may become the actual weakest Sword AA in the Game.

Blurred fency has a damage-coeffcient of (2.4). In Comparison, the Warrior’s Greatsword has (5.5) on 100b, (2.8) on Whirlwind Attack, (1.7) on Rush and and (1.5) on Blade Trail ( giving the blade hits two times); Arcing Slice (although never really used) has a modifier of (1.3). 100blades alone outdamages Blurred Fency by far , and if you forced your opponent to dodge twice (which isn’t hard as warrior, giving the sheer amount of hard-hitting attacks), and used 100b mid-melee range, you would have already outdamaged Blurred Fency by the time your opponent got out of your attacking-cone – And you don’t even have to use inmob for that. In case you actually inmobilize your foe, a full Blurred Fency will not even down Soft Targets in one Swoop – but 100blades certainly does.

Neither Sword AA nor Blurred Fency will put too much pressure on your foe; And by the way – Mesmer mainhand Sword is already a weaker, more gimmicky Version of Thief S/P 2-3 + a weaker AA. And i can tell you, my thief can use #2->#3 much more often than my mesmer and hits way harder while doing so (even the Shadowstepping part itself) – initiative may have been a problem in the past, but ever since the buff to it’s regenerationspeed i can use it far more often without pushing myself into a corner (S/P was way harder to play back then)…

To your Pindown: this spell had 6 stacks of bleeding for 12 seconds at base stats (mind blown!) PLUS inmobilize; and no, ¾seconds is not “overly telegraphed” at all – many classes have ¾s spells which are telegraphed just as well while not having nearly the strength of a pin down. And don’t even try coming with a “strafing” argument; the pin-down-shot doesn’t move slow at all, and the 50% Movementspeed reduction in-combat will make strafing impossible unless the warrior fires it at 1000-1200 range.
Actually i don’t even know why i’am explaining this, since i’am not sure what the inmobilize on pin down (a ranged set) has to do with iLeap, which is used on a melee set – a Sword wiedling Mesmer is slower than any Sword or Greatsword wielding Warrior, can’t take as much damage, doesn’t do as much damage with it, and does not nearly have so many ways to counter movement-impairing conditions via traits as a warrior can, so why is it so hard to understand that inmobilize is actually very important to melee Mesmers?

Of course i hope that there will be a delay between spawning the clone and teleporting (look at focus #4, it takes a second as well until the pull can be used), because no matter how much Swordmesmer need it – instant inmobilize would just be silly.

Damage buff for GS.. why? wassnt it already strong? (…)

GS#3 has never been a high-damage skills, and it won’t be one after the buff either. And no, if you want to know it exactly: GS itself is not “already Strong”. iBerserk is a weak (lower coefficient) and double-telegraphed version of Whirlwind Attack, #5 does unnoticeable damage, #2 is kind of okay, but has the same damage as Blade Trail (which is the weakest non-AA on Warrior GS), and the Autoattack is barely noticeable when used against Zerkerwarriors – use it against PVT Warrs, and you won’t even get past the Regeneration given by Healing Signet (and this is coming from someone running full zerker; so my MesGS won’t get much stronger than it is).

AA torment!?!?? what??!?!??!?!?!?!?! are you sick ANET???

I main mesmer and i fully agree with this. If you’re looking into the mesmer Subforum, you will see even more Mesmermainers hating this change. It will make the most stupid, most braindead and most passive Condispec even more overpowered than it already is right now – this will undoubtly lead to a mass of bad players “jumping on the train”, creating an alt mesmer and terrorizing WvW with their newfound holy grail…

Anyone got an Idea how we could make the devs see how terrible their decision was ?

We could suggest they actually log in to their game and play it a bit, perhaps?

A very well written post.

Thanks.

Tons of counter play to I-leap after the change btw.

Any sort of damage to kill the clone will disallow the swap (so AoE or any type of heavy auto attack cleave)

You can doge as it pops up in your face.

You can condi clense.

you can interupt the mesmer.

you can out play the shatter itself instead of the swap.

you can use any mobility or location changing based skills to clear the distance of the swap.

get creative and l2p with all your skills.

Also what? your afraid of blurred frenzy? Go rewatch the video on twich and tell me how much dmg karl did to the NPC.

Most of the changes seem fine but that torment on the scepter AA seems like a horrid idea. There’s a reason why there’s so few ways to apply the condition, it’s really kitten strong. The iLeap seems like a skill that just needed fixing because now it looks like it might almost be unavoidable.

Lifestealer.4910:

Mesmer needs help, i get it but buffing this cancerous condi build that they have? You are basically promoting no skill gameplay and if this build ever rolls into the meta, that is last nail in the coffin for your so called competitive play. WvW roaming will be deemed dead as well as all you will see is PU mesmers and P/D thieves ( you already see endless of this brain dead OP spec).

What cracks me up is how you PvP’ers think the game revolves around you. Mesmer has one spec that you can’t face roll, and you all start crying. Ever hear of a cleanse? Know how to use that skill? No, instead of thinking up a strategy to counter, you all start whining. The mesmer finally gets a buff, and the sky is falling.

Did you ever think that Condition Mesmer in PvE might need a buff, and this scepter change was much needed, so they can actually kill something? Sure, it’s doable now, but it takes forever. Did you ever think that your incessant whining about mesmer a is the reason Mesmers are nothing more than a support portal-bot in PvE? No, you don’t because all you care about is yourself.

Sethren.8472:

Lifestealer.4910:

Mesmer needs help, i get it but buffing this cancerous condi build that they have? You are basically promoting no skill gameplay and if this build ever rolls into the meta, that is last nail in the coffin for your so called competitive play. WvW roaming will be deemed dead as well as all you will see is PU mesmers and P/D thieves ( you already see endless of this brain dead OP spec).

What cracks me up is how you PvP’ers think the game revolves around you. Mesmer has one spec that you can’t face roll, and you all start crying. Ever hear of a cleanse? Know how to use that skill? No, instead of thinking up a strategy to counter, you all start whining. The mesmer finally gets a buff, and the sky is falling.

Did you ever think that Condition Mesmer in PvE might need a buff, and this scepter change was much needed, so they can actually kill something? Sure, it’s doable now, but it takes forever. Did you ever think that your incessant whining about mesmer a is the reason Mesmers are nothing more than a support portal-bot in PvE? No, you don’t because all you care about is yourself.

You sound clueless, if you running condi anything in PvE then you are doing it wrong and if you think this buff will change that then you are mistaken. Also your first comment about pvp clearly shows that you have no understanding of anything so you should stay away from this thread if you are again, clueless.

Nobody likes condi mesmer because its the most passive and brainless spec there is, it makes p/d thief and turret engineer look more skillful but i bet you don’t even know the builds i am talking about.

And lol at the “mesmer is just portal bot in pve” you obviously know nothing about mesmers

What use are cleanses against 2 seconds of Torment that is reapplied every 2 seconds? That’s what will be coming out of Scepter clones. Not high stacks, but all but impossible to do anything about.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

What use are cleanses against 2 seconds of Torment that is reapplied every 2 seconds? That’s what will be coming out of Scepter clones. Not high stacks, but all but impossible to do anything about.

As i said, he is just another clueless scrub that prob wants a cheese build for mesmer as he can’t play mesmer right, Anet catering to such players is why the competitive scene is pretty much extinct. Just read that comment about how mesmers are only portal bot in pve and you will understand how he doesn’t know jack squat

Sethren.8472:

Lifestealer.4910:

Mesmer needs help, i get it but buffing this cancerous condi build that they have? You are basically promoting no skill gameplay and if this build ever rolls into the meta, that is last nail in the coffin for your so called competitive play. WvW roaming will be deemed dead as well as all you will see is PU mesmers and P/D thieves ( you already see endless of this brain dead OP spec).

What cracks me up is how you PvP’ers think the game revolves around you. Mesmer has one spec that you can’t face roll, and you all start crying. Ever hear of a cleanse? Know how to use that skill? No, instead of thinking up a strategy to counter, you all start whining. The mesmer finally gets a buff, and the sky is falling.

Did you ever think that Condition Mesmer in PvE might need a buff, and this scepter change was much needed, so they can actually kill something? Sure, it’s doable now, but it takes forever. Did you ever think that your incessant whining about mesmer a is the reason Mesmers are nothing more than a support portal-bot in PvE? No, you don’t because all you care about is yourself.

Sethren, the game does and should revolve around PVP. Condition build is indeed a mindless and brainless thing any mesmer can contribute. I run cleanse all the time and Torment on mesmer seems to get re-applied when i cant roll and i attack. The problem is with the auto apply. You can in fact dodge it, or blind it, but there is absolutely no skill involved with trying to get Torment applied in the first place. Currently it is just
-block- -Torment-

Which got added to

-dodge- -clone- poofstealth

So now the USSR space monkeys can add yet another mindless chain to their ezmode combos.

so.. you attacking someones block.. is them passive applying torment to you?

the clone auto attack.. and clone death i can agree is somewhat passive.. but now the block is also passive? if they pushed the block button and it hit you with torment as an attack is that more or less passive then having it be a block?

zaxon.6819:

so.. you attacking someones block.. is them passive applying torment to you?

To me, the 5 stacks of torment do not justify one block.
To clarify and put into perspective, I have played guardian and run a burn block build that at most, that fits in my playstyle, can only get 2 secs of burn in. Torment does way more damage than burn.

We need less conditions on autos, not more. And we obviously need to do away with torment. One of the worst additions to the game.

This set of Mesmer changes is aimed at shatter Mesmers, but is going to heavily buff the zerk/pu/pu condi Mesmers too.

Consider that before officially enacting these.

that isnt the point.. the point is what is passive and what is active.

zaxon.6819:

the clone auto attack.. and clone death i can agree is somewhat passive.. but now the block is also passive? if they pushed the block button and it hit you with torment as an attack is that more or less passive then having it be a block?

No the block is not passive as it requires the person to actively time and use the spell and it also allows the enemy to counter play as you can also dodge out of the counterattack even if u hit thru the block, the main point of my thread though is the changes and the passive torment that they are giving which pushes the brainless condi mesmer to be more stronger than they should be.

ya.. i agree with you.. torment is overkill in buffing scepter.. id take any condition that isnt torment/burn or bleed as part of the auto attack.. i agree it should have a condition but torment is a very strong condi. and i would be happy if pu was gone all together.

it is at the point now that whenever you kill someone.. they flame you for being pu mesmer.. even when you dont play pu mesmer.. i play shatter and some wierd hybrid specs.. and if you win.. “carried by pu” its just tainting the whole mesmer profession.

zaxon.6819:

it is at the point now that whenever you kill someone.. they flame you for being pu mesmer.. even when you dont play pu mesmer.. i play shatter and some wierd hybrid specs.. and if you win.. “carried by pu” its just tainting the whole mesmer profession.

The joy of playing melee shatter.
I get called cheese by turret engi’s, hambows, terrormancers whenever I drop anyone. You can’t not play PU, even when you don’t :P

It wouldn’t even be that bad if it were on any class but Mesmer, if you dropped bleed off Necro scepter AA it wouldn’t be that big a deal because he has bunches of other ability’s he will use other than just AAing. But all a mesmer has to do is spawn a bunch of clones to AA you while the player sits in stealth, uses other skills or just kites you till you die. Plus that 4s hit is not hard to get up to 9s.

I really don’t understand the logic behind the devs and torment. First they nerf warrior torment application because it was to easy to have perma 5 stacks on your foe (it is op, and I play allot of condi warrior) but now they turn around and make mesmer torment application WAY more powerful than warrior ever hoped of being.

Lurock Turoth.9085:

It wouldn’t even be that bad if it were on any class but Mesmer, if you dropped bleed off Necro scepter AA it wouldn’t be that big a deal because he has bunches of other ability’s he will use other than just AAing. But all a mesmer has to do is spawn a bunch of clones to AA you while the player sits in stealth, uses other skills or just kites you till you die. Plus that 4s hit is not hard to get up to 9s.

Well, other than being impossible to get a 4 second base to 9 seconds due to the cap of doubled duration…

But yes, Torment on auto-attack isn’t a problem on anyone but Mesmer simply because clones inherit the auto-attack. This can, at times, quadruple their condition output (the Mesmer does use other skills, after all).

Just watch the helseth video on twitch where he explains why everything is bad with thay change. Torment is too strong of a condition to put on an autoattack, especially one that can be applied by clones, so you don’t even need clone death or on block triggers to kill someone. There’s no way cleansing on most classes can keep up with that and I know PU is bad for pvp, but with all the extra torment they will kill things so fast and pressure things so much PU won’t even be needed.

And yeah I know lots of things can and will be able to kill this mesmer spec, I can do it myself on some of those builds you mentioned. But lower skilled players won’t be able to, and as it stands such a condition mesmer, PU or not, although PU especially, will be FAR too forgiving for bad players. I can’t stand low risk high reward builds getting buffed, because it is in no way healthy for the game.

nearlight.3064:

A mesmer won’t even need PU to faceroll everything. At least according to the recent helseth rant on it.

Your first problem was listening to the rant.

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

A mesmer won’t even need PU to faceroll everything. At least according to the recent helseth rant on it.

Your first problem was listening to the rant.

Helseth is probably the best high level pvp mesmer in all of GW2. I have no idea who you are and you expect me to believe that your opinion is correct over the most decorated, skillful, and knowledgeable pvp mesmer in the game?

That’s like saying that a kindergartner in choir knows more about writing music than Mozart did.

nearlight.3064:

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

A mesmer won’t even need PU to faceroll everything. At least according to the recent helseth rant on it.

Your first problem was listening to the rant.

Helseth is probably the best high level pvp mesmer in all of GW2. I have no idea who you are and you expect me to believe that your opinion is correct over the most decorated, skillful, and knowledgeable pvp mesmer in the game?

That’s like saying that a kindergartner in choir knows more about writing music than Mozart did.

If Helseth was a game developer your analogy would make sense.

Clownmug.8357:

nearlight.3064:

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

A mesmer won’t even need PU to faceroll everything. At least according to the recent helseth rant on it.

Your first problem was listening to the rant.

Helseth is probably the best high level pvp mesmer in all of GW2. I have no idea who you are and you expect me to believe that your opinion is correct over the most decorated, skillful, and knowledgeable pvp mesmer in the game?

That’s like saying that a kindergartner in choir knows more about writing music than Mozart did.

If Helseth was a game developer your analogy would make sense.

Okay let me rephrase. That’s like saying a kindergartner knows more about playing piano than Chopin did.

Clone death traits are great fun, and not all that powerful outside of tight spots against melee cleave drones and usually only when you’ve gotten lucky enough to proc lots of bleeds from DD.

It would be better to just clean up DD by allowing clone death traits to be blocked and also by disallowing clone death traits to proc when refreshing clones. Other than that, it’s good to have deterrents to kitten y melee spam.

I’d much rather see the +1 second stealth duration of PU removed, thus removing 1 boon proc. Maybe add swiftness to the selection of possible boons to reduce the chance of getting Protection and Aegis. Or just ditch the Aegis entirely.

FugueState.3842:

Sethren, the game does and should revolve around PVP.

No, it doesn’t, and no, it shouldn’t. You could not be more wrong. You do not decide what the game revolves around just because you play it. Therefore, devs should not focus on balancing things related strictly PVP because the entirety of GW2 “revolves around PVP.”

Matt Stacey.7415:

FugueState.3842:

Sethren, the game does and should revolve around PVP.

No, it doesn’t, and no, it shouldn’t. You could not be more wrong. You do not decide what the game revolves around just because you play it. Therefore, devs should not focus on balancing things related strictly PVP because the entirety of GW2 “revolves around PVP.”

profession skill balances have always been focused around 5 vs 5 conquest mode since launch.

to disagree with that is simply being in denial.

the mesmer changes are fine.
people are merely overreacting as they have always.

Lifestealer.4910:

And lol at the “mesmer is just portal bot in pve” you obviously know nothing about mesmers

Except mesmer IS portal bot in PvE.
Look at any record run that uses mesmers and you will see they barely fight. They just run around portaling people! Sad, yet true.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Matt Stacey.7415:

FugueState.3842:

Sethren, the game does and should revolve around PVP.

No, it doesn’t, and no, it shouldn’t. You could not be more wrong. You do not decide what the game revolves around just because you play it. Therefore, devs should not focus on balancing things related strictly PVP because the entirety of GW2 “revolves around PVP.”

profession skill balances have always been focused around 5 vs 5 conquest mode since launch.

to disagree with that is simply being in denial.

the mesmer changes are fine.
people are merely overreacting as they have always.

people just dont play mesmer at all . There are reason behind those stupid mesmer nerf .

By the way ,when the skillful power block came out , how did u guys outcry “mesmer op” then ? And now , block is passive play lol , war is passive class , you just need that as a standard so everything will be clear.

nearlight.3064:

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

A mesmer won’t even need PU to faceroll everything. At least according to the recent helseth rant on it.

Your first problem was listening to the rant.

Helseth is probably the best high level pvp mesmer in all of GW2. I have no idea who you are and you expect me to believe that your opinion is correct over the most decorated, skillful, and knowledgeable pvp mesmer in the game?

That’s like saying that a kindergartner in choir knows more about writing music than Mozart did.

That’s two assumptions now, and you know what they say about those.

robertul.3679:

Lifestealer.4910:

And lol at the “mesmer is just portal bot in pve” you obviously know nothing about mesmers

Except mesmer IS portal bot in PvE.
Look at any record run that uses mesmers and you will see they barely fight. They just run around portaling people! Sad, yet true.

Except they are not. Mesmers are wanted for their reflects thru feedback and warden as well as time warps. Those are the main strength, they can also provide decent dps as well as trash skips for dungeons. Granted they don’t do it as well as thieves but at least they have more going for them then thieves.

THe only reason people say mesmer is bad in pve is because guardian usually fulfills their role better but what they fail to realize is that guardian is just an extremely powerful class in all parts of pve and taking a class that is slightly sub par over it wouldn’t affect your ability to complete challenging content.

There is no need to counter i-leap since nobody uses sword as mesmer in competitive pvp.

Because ANet has statistics that say it isn’t OP.

• PU has the highest impact on inexperienced players who do not know the class. For these players, there are several options:
  • Learn how to counter it. PU mesmers fail against high skill play.
  • Learn to run away. There’s a reason why so many classes have speed buffs and superior mobility, while mesmer has one failing blink, one failing swiftness, and no speed signet. On “But I can’t run away from a point!”, see further.
• PU is counterproductive in serious Conquest PvP. You can’t cap points and make your team win; all you can do is annoy people in Hotjoin – which is the most vocal source of QQ, as it is the part of the community which has a strong psychological urge to pwn others and derive enjoyment from it, but no maturity to evolve into real e-sportsmen who focus on teamwork and efficiency.

• ANet informed us that they felt Scepter was underperforming. It means they dug up their statistics on weapon weapon/skill usage and saw it was underperforming.
  • “Torment on auto-attack is too much!”. It’s like all we do is sit on one auto-attack and never swap weapons. Right? Previously, Scepter AA felt like “sigh, I wish I could swap to another weapon already…”.
  • “Torment on clones is too much!”. It’s like clones are phantasms, have infinite health, and aren’t disposed off after they do an auto-attack or two by being killed or overwritten. Right?
  • In WvW roaming, you have enough space to kite away from clones and their projectiles.
  • In PvP, as stated above, PU has very little synergy with it. If you do set up your tormenting clones (and nothing more) on a point and go stealth , you’re losing your point. It doesn’t matter much if you kill someone in the process, apart from annoying that guy.
  • Captain Obvious reminds you: you can’t use more than two weapon sets. It means that people have to sacrifice other functionality to slot in the Oh-so-OP! scepter.
• 1v1 is not an official game mode, and as such, the game should not be balanced around it.
  • In any game, some classes will inevitably be better at dueling and suck at team fights. Mesmers have enough roles removed from them already and their class-defining features passed to others (Perplexity rune anyone?) or removed (GW1), limiting them to being a Portal/Veil bot.
  • If you want to duel and kill people (or not be killed) in a team game mode, that’s your own problem, not ANet’s; it’s like playing Tetris and saying “I want to build the highest tower, but the game ends too soon!”. A game mode such as Conquest is based on tactics and class synergy; if you replace it with “I don’t want this PU mesmer to kill me!”, you’re doing it wrong.
  • If you don’t want to see roaming mesmers in WvW, than you can as well say “I don’t want to see mesmers in this game at all!”. There should be some roles for a mesmer apart from being a veil bot, right? I doubt that recent AoE mantra changes and Triumphant Distortion change will do much of a difference. As for PvE, there’s little point in bringing your mesmer there anyway. So?..

Matt Stacey.7415:

FugueState.3842:

Sethren, the game does and should revolve around PVP.

No, it doesn’t, and no, it shouldn’t. You could not be more wrong. You do not decide what the game revolves around just because you play it. Therefore, devs should not focus on balancing things related strictly PVP because the entirety of GW2 “revolves around PVP.”

Then tell me sunshine what should the classes be balanced around?.. 1v1?.. PvE?.. 1000vs1000 man zergs in wvw?.. what should they be balanced around?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Matt Stacey.7415:

FugueState.3842:

Sethren, the game does and should revolve around PVP.

No, it doesn’t, and no, it shouldn’t. You could not be more wrong. You do not decide what the game revolves around just because you play it. Therefore, devs should not focus on balancing things related strictly PVP because the entirety of GW2 “revolves around PVP.”

profession skill balances have always been focused around 5 vs 5 conquest mode since launch.

to disagree with that is simply being in denial.

the mesmer changes are fine.
people are merely overreacting as they have always.

It certainly is not fine, basically a powerful Ranged AA Condition(torment) that can be given to clones, That punishes you with more damage for moving, mixed with clone death trait which also punishes you for killing or being near clones. Confusion which punishes you for pressing any button, and other damaging conditions like burns, bleed, poison and impairment conditions. Cleansing is not going to do anything against a build like this, even if you manage all your removals well there’s nothing you can do against this. Here’s a video of what it is to deal with Condi PU mesmer, now feature in torment. Do you really think a build like that needs Torment on AA?

http://youtu.be/-W3RVKGoih8?t=6m55s

Its funny that people think 1v1’s don’t occur often in competitive pvp. Also besides, given anets track record i wouldn’t trust their “statistics”, remember the dhummfire patch anyone?

I’m not sure I get the argument here, it’ll still suck in spvp/pve/zergs so let’s just make it stronger in a place it’s already strong at.

game may not be balanced around 1v1 but they didn’t buff it effectively for anything other then 1v1.

@ukuni It’s not about 4-4-6 condi PU needing or not needing a buff (it doesn’t need one) its about opening a viable main hand weapon for other condition based Mesmer builds to be developed. I understand that many players think that the role of conditions is already too great in PvP settings; however, since Anet seems to be doing nothing to mitigate this in general, I see no reason to lock Mesmer out. Mesmer has 1 build that is run in serious sPvP (4-4-0-0-6) Staff/GS, why shouldn’t Anet do something to put other builds and weapon sets on the table?

By your reasoning, since Shadow Arts is not good in sPvP, it should be buffed.
They should buff things that make the game more enjoyable.

when power block came out where you guys "anet u should encourage skillful play "?Instead you were crying for interruption (its passive play like war i guess lol)
And now this.
@Sagat.3285
play mesmer and learn how the DD actually works

@nearlight.3064
I’m pretty I can’t beat anyone from TCG ,and it won’t prove that their classes are op . There is one thing called logic.

Feaduin.7603:

@ukuni It’s not about 4-4-6 condi PU needing or not needing a buff (it doesn’t need one) its about opening a viable main hand weapon for other condition based Mesmer builds to be developed. I understand that many players think that the role of conditions is already too great in PvP settings; however, since Anet seems to be doing nothing to mitigate this in general, I see no reason to lock Mesmer out. Mesmer has 1 build that is run in serious sPvP (4-4-0-0-6) Staff/GS, why shouldn’t Anet do something to put other builds and weapon sets on the table?

staff/gs is a serious build? why is it that those types tend to be the worst..? anyway, i don’t use scepter for its conditions, so i’m wondering if the torment on the auto attack will mean i’ll be see a lower base damage on it.

Any GOOD mesmer is asking to change the scepter auto Torment.

Please ANet, PLEASE, listen to your players. You did it in the past with Perplexity and Deception Evasion, do it again. Torment on scepter auto and scepter clones is TOXIC for the game!

Lucentfir.7430:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Matt Stacey.7415:

FugueState.3842:

Sethren, the game does and should revolve around PVP.

No, it doesn’t, and no, it shouldn’t. You could not be more wrong. You do not decide what the game revolves around just because you play it. Therefore, devs should not focus on balancing things related strictly PVP because the entirety of GW2 “revolves around PVP.”

profession skill balances have always been focused around 5 vs 5 conquest mode since launch.

to disagree with that is simply being in denial.

the mesmer changes are fine.
people are merely overreacting as they have always.

It certainly is not fine, basically a powerful Ranged AA Condition(torment) that can be given to clones, That punishes you with more damage for moving, mixed with clone death trait which also punishes you for killing or being near clones. Confusion which punishes you for pressing any button, and other damaging conditions like burns, bleed, poison and impairment conditions. Cleansing is not going to do anything against a build like this, even if you manage all your removals well there’s nothing you can do against this. Here’s a video of what it is to deal with Condi PU mesmer, now feature in torment. Do you really think a build like that needs Torment on AA?

http://youtu.be/-W3RVKGoih8?t=6m55s

Do u guys really tried clone death trait ?
PU mesmer damage is low right now and lack of aoe pressure .after patch it will have more damage but if a condition mesmer really want to kill someone like necro or engi does then he might drop pu for some actually damage trait and change torch to pistol or iwarden(if anet really fixed it this time ). Also why u need a condition mesmer while an engi could do better condition pressure? are we talking about tpvp ?
if its wvw then as usual , run away from pu just like it as healing shout waror tank d/d ele etc .
It is cheese mode tho but not effective like necro ,ranger or war’s builds. In the end i hope anet could give us more effective fun and skillful builds to play with .But balance wise, nothing wrong with current pu. low risk/med reward seems ok to me .

Zord.6130:

Any GOOD mesmer is asking to change the scepter auto Torment.

Please ANet, PLEASE, listen to your players. You did it in the past with Perplexity and Deception Evasion, do it again. Torment on scepter auto and scepter clones is TOXIC for the game!

It is toxic but it really doesnt make mesmer op for tpvp at all . maybe anet could move pu to illusion trait line to make it harder to match scepter condition build .

musu.9205:

Lucentfir.7430:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Matt Stacey.7415:

FugueState.3842:

Sethren, the game does and should revolve around PVP.

No, it doesn’t, and no, it shouldn’t. You could not be more wrong. You do not decide what the game revolves around just because you play it. Therefore, devs should not focus on balancing things related strictly PVP because the entirety of GW2 “revolves around PVP.”

profession skill balances have always been focused around 5 vs 5 conquest mode since launch.

to disagree with that is simply being in denial.

the mesmer changes are fine.
people are merely overreacting as they have always.

It certainly is not fine, basically a powerful Ranged AA Condition(torment) that can be given to clones, That punishes you with more damage for moving, mixed with clone death trait which also punishes you for killing or being near clones. Confusion which punishes you for pressing any button, and other damaging conditions like burns, bleed, poison and impairment conditions. Cleansing is not going to do anything against a build like this, even if you manage all your removals well there’s nothing you can do against this. Here’s a video of what it is to deal with Condi PU mesmer, now feature in torment. Do you really think a build like that needs Torment on AA?

http://youtu.be/-W3RVKGoih8?t=6m55s

Do u guys really tried clone death trait ?
PU mesmer damage is low right now and lack of aoe pressure .after patch it will have more damage but if a condition mesmer really want to kill someone like necro or engi does then he might drop pu for some actually damage trait and change torch to pistol or iwarden(if anet really fixed it this time ). Also why u need a condition mesmer while an engi could do better condition pressure? are we talking about tpvp ?
if its wvw then as usual , run away from pu just like it as healing shout waror tank d/d ele etc .
It is cheese mode tho but not effective like necro ,ranger or war’s builds. In the end i hope anet could give us more effective fun and skillful builds to play with .But balance wise, nothing wrong with current pu. low risk/med reward seems ok to me .

If you want to keep torment on AA and keep it reasonable give Clone death traits a ICD and remove it from procing on creating new clones. Unlike Necro, Ranger, and Warrior, those classes can’t consistently go invis gain aegis and passively roll around to inflict damaging conditions and impairment conditions. That’s as far as I can see making it reasonable. Especially since the clone death traits are adept traits.

Lucentfir.7430:

If you want to keep torment on AA and keep it reasonable give Clone death traits a ICD and remove it from procing on creating new clones. Unlike Necro, Ranger, and Warrior, those classes can’t consistently go invis gain aegis and passively roll around to inflict damaging conditions and impairment conditions. That’s as far as I can see making it reasonable. Especially since the clone death traits are adept traits.

no ire and healing signet and high hp high armor etc for war , no DS and minion for necro , no evade and passive spirits for ranger then ?
Clone death itself is fine , just test it on your mesmer for god sake ,how it’s hard to do ?
About pu ,it will be fine after patch in pvp .that build just brings so little for team fight ,that’s it. Are we clear here?
But since every time u guys over raged about this trait , i think anet could put it in illusion trait line for less cheese.

Lifestealer.4910:

Mesmer needs help, i get it but buffing this cancerous condi build that they have?

Eh, right now every somewhat useful Mesmer plays a variant of power setups. I reckon their data will even show that Scepter goes virtually unused as a weapon.

Why do you think they’d buffing condition setups? Just for the lulz?
Probably because if you get off your high horse of as character built to be vulnerable to conditions but not to power attacks, you’ll realize that condition builds are really weak.

Lifestealer.4910:

Its funny that people think 1v1’s don’t occur often in competitive pvp. Also besides, given anets track record i wouldn’t trust their “statistics”, remember the dhummfire patch anyone?

It happens , but that doesnt mean you have to balance bunker guard for 1v1.
Like kill shot could one shot u ,But I don’t think anet should balance it around this situation alone .now you get the idea?