Nerf zerker? Really?
When I run my healer I do things really different. I watch my allies’ health, keep up boons as much as possible, place myself in places where I can catch damage for others and more. It involves TEAM play, what most zerkers and condi builds do not.
I’m not saying the fault is entirely on the players. Zerk is the best build in PvE dungeons, Condi the best in WvW and many SPvP scenarios. The problem lies with making them the best. Everything should have equal purpose.
I hope you read articles like this before you bought this game.
Its good that they’ll nerf zerker.
Why exactly?
Zerker gear gives power, perc and crit damage, the high power and crit chance/damage make it the viable option for dps. The downside of it should be the lack of survivability but that’s not the case. There are alternatives to zerker anyway like assassins only with less power.
edit: and for the ppl with ascended gear already zerker, If you had magic find gear before then know that its possible to change gear stats to whatever you want.
You didn’t address the question. Why would a nerf on zerker be good?
You would need a total overhaul of the combat system/mechanics in order not to favour pure dmg and the ability to move/time/stack correctly over some guy stacking toughness.
A nerf to damage for the zerk set would do nothing for the game without the above. Which let’s face it, isn’t going to happen.
If you are going to move away from mobs with telegraphed massive spike damage attacks, move away from action/dodge combat and move towards a trinity system with dedicated healers et al. Then nerfing dps gear makes sense but becomes redundant anyway.
If you are just going to nerf the damage output of the glass cannon set up and err, that’s it. Then you are going to make things worse frankly.
As for “go assassins”, and? Kill stuff a bit slower? Awesome, that’s a step forward right there. That is, until people wearing PVT start moaning that those in assassins are clearing dungeons faster than them and we get another cry for nerfs.
they don’t really need to over haul the game’s combat mechanic just because they went and nerfed zerker, that would be an over reaction because the ability to move/time/stack correctly is not connected with zerker gear.
Nerfing zerker gear isn’t just so you kill stuff slower, the gear setup often provides high power and damage and high crit chance/damage which together just burns everything too fast with no downside. Bosses cant react because they’re dead after a few seconds, If anything it encourages boss design with high hp pools. A nerf would really benefit build diversity.
And they should also nerf PVT specially to deter zerging, but that’s for another day.
You’re pretty clueless. If they nerf berserker the people who stay around after that will just move onto the next highest dps set and then the next and so on. And the cycle will repeat.
The only way that doesn’t happen is like the guy said, if you rework the entire combat mechanic from the ground up to encourage the use of other gear sets.
Take away the reasons why berserker gear is good and lo and behold, berserker gear isn’t a problem anymore.
As it is right now there is no reason to stack toughness or health in PvE because bosses are going to 1 shot you no matter what you do it. And that is why people like berserker. Killing stuff faster means you don’t have to worry about getting 1 shot as much.
Berserker gear is a symptom of the problem much like a cough is a symptom of a cold. Getting rid of berserker gear isn’t going to fix the main problem.
you can try posting here, maybe they’ll hear you better.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvE-Zerkers/page/2#post3480565
Unless you just like calling me clueless then be my guest.
I don’t know the post in which I quoted shows that you don’t understand the core issue and why people use berserker gear to begin with.
keep going.
You’re having trouble reading the rest of the posts on this page?
go on.
Go on what?
Instead of trying to refute the points I made above he just referred me to another thread. Which I find odd because he was posting in this thread too. If he didn’t want to have a discussion in this thread he perhaps shouldn’t have posted in it.
In fairness he had already referenced my post and also stated him/herself why your points on the subject seem incorrect and why a nerf on zerk is ludicrous as it is a fundamental combat mechanic/encounter issue.
When I run my healer I do things really different. I watch my allies’ health, keep up boons as much as possible, place myself in places where I can catch damage for others and more. It involves TEAM play, what most zerkers and condi builds do not.
I’m not saying the fault is entirely on the players. Zerk is the best build in PvE dungeons, Condi the best in WvW and many SPvP scenarios. The problem lies with making them the best. Everything should have equal purpose.
I hope you read articles like this before you bought this game.
MMOc is the home of the hyper-casual autists that ruined WoW.
Hardly a good source.
2) Useless pve classes . I think alot of people want to nerf zerker because their class will never be accepted in a speed run. I can understand that, why
just not buffing them? So they can enjoy the game like every1 else.
Because PvE is already “too easy”.
If we just buff everyone to the level of the current top, all we do is make sure that independent of what you do, it’ll always be without any challenge.
For a fun experience (it makes you think :P ), spec the worst garbage you can think of, and use completely nonfitting gear. Full crit build, Giver’s, and do object-bosses which you can’t crit.
Now, focus only on one thing though: Do you feel challenged? Because the thing is, all of a sudden the fight is genuinely difficult. You have to pay attention, communicate (I’m assuming the entire group does this) and work together.
And hence the notion: Nerf everyone down. Instead of buffing everyone up. The very very lowest end remotely starts feeling balanced.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
MMOc is the home of the hyper-casual autists that ruined WoW.
Hardly a good source.
I hope you realize it’s just a direct copy from anet blog which is inaccessible.
In short: AI is the problem, not zerk gear.. Current AI has 3 telegraphed attacks in 20 second span, moves in straight lines to the player and doesn’t care about dem AoE’s and such. Increase the frequency of attacks, drastically improve the skill pool and add in some randomization and to compensate reduce the overall health pool of mobs. IMHO that’d work wonders (and bring much Q_Q from the people who only know how to “zerk behind the corner”) for the overall health of the game, return skill requirement to dungeons and increase build diversity (something a straight up zerk nerf wouldn’t, since I suspect everyone would just flock to next best thing).
Lead game designer dev already said they cannot fix the AI due to the massive resources it would take and the “millions of things it would break” if they did. Ranger pets are tied to mob AI. To fix ranger pets they have to pretty much overhaul the entire creature AI code they have setup already.
In short: mob AI ain’t getting fixed anytime soon, if ever.
RNG is a bell curve. Better hope you’re on the right side.
To be fair, most of that isn’t an AI change. It’s a change to creature skill loadout.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Its good that they’ll nerf zerker.
Why exactly?
Because it divides the community. I run PVT guardian and ran HOW P1, ended up with all zerkers. At the end boss, everyone kept going down and 1 guy died next to an NPC, when I went to rez him, I ended up rezzing the NPC instead. This guy calls me out on it and I apologize. Then he proceeds to say that the reason we are having trouble is because I can’t do enough damage and that the NPC probably does more damage then I do. Well, the other party members didn’t like that comment and actually decided to kick him. We got another party member and finished the dungeon.
I decide to do SE path 1 and everyone decides to stack in the corner for the 3 golems, everyone goes down in a matter of a few seconds. I could tell they were zerkers. After 3 tries we finally got it. After finishing that path, went on to p3. Well, group decided to run past all the mobs right before the first boss and all the enemies got aggroed, followed and wiped everyone out 2 times. After everyone was already downed the 3rd time within a matter of seconds, I just decided to call it quits today. Next time I’m in a dungeon, I’m almost thinking about posting “No Zerkers” I mean maybe I can’t kill enemies as fast as the other people but if people are going down after 1 or 2 hits, how much faster can it be to have to start over and over and over again because the whole party wipes?
Its good that they’ll nerf zerker.
Why exactly?
Because it divides the community. I run PVT guardian and ran HOW P1, ended up with all zerkers. At the end boss, everyone kept going down and 1 guy died next to an NPC, when I went to rez him, I ended up rezzing the NPC instead. This guy calls me out on it and I apologize. Then he proceeds to say that the reason we are having trouble is because I can’t do enough damage and that the NPC probably does more damage then I do. Well, the other party members didn’t like that comment and actually decided to kick him. We got another party member and finished the dungeon.
I decide to do SE path 1 and everyone decides to stack in the corner for the 3 golems, everyone goes down in a matter of a few seconds. I could tell they were zerkers. After 3 tries we finally got it. After finishing that path, went on to p3. Well, group decided to run past all the mobs right before the first boss and all the enemies got aggroed, followed and wiped everyone out 2 times. After everyone was already downed the 3rd time within a matter of seconds, I just decided to call it quits today. Next time I’m in a dungeon, I’m almost thinking about posting “No Zerkers” I mean maybe I can’t kill enemies as fast as the other people but if people are going down after 1 or 2 hits, how much faster can it be to have to start over and over and over again because the whole party wipes?
Even if they nerfed zerk gear I still wouldn’t want to play with people in pvt.
So because you played with bad players that means an entire stat combination should be nerfed or removed? Do you realise how extreme that is?
Sanctum of Rall (NA) | [LOD]
Morrï Mahariel | Serah Mahariel | Morrï
A bunch of amateur solos from yours truly
Morrï Mahariel | Serah Mahariel | Morrï
A bunch of amateur solos from yours truly
To be fair, most of that isn’t an AI change. It’s a change to creature skill loadout.
That’s not what he said, this is what he said:
Summoned creature AI is a different can of worms that we aren’t opening for the same reason. Pets that delay F2 use isn’t some wait script we put into their skills it has to do with core AI behavior shared by all pets and creatures and how they decide tasks. Rewriting that has the risks of breaking millions of unknown things so we have up until now band aided the solution. It is something that needs addressing but won’t be addressed until we can kitten how and when we will test it.
Core AI behavior… not a simple skill loadout.
RNG is a bell curve. Better hope you’re on the right side.
So because you played with bad players that means an entire stat combination should be nerfed or removed? Do you realise how extreme that is?
Just as extreme as the consensus among zerker players which is: Good players wear zerkers, bad players do not.
Amd Ryzen 1800x – Amd Fury X -64GB of ram
Windows 10
Windows 10
Which is entirely correct. Bad players can’t actively mitigate so they rely on passive mitigation, good players can rely on their own skill. However we aren’t asking for PVT to be removed, we just want PVT users to read our lfgs and not join them.
Sanctum of Rall (NA) | [LOD]
Morrï Mahariel | Serah Mahariel | Morrï
A bunch of amateur solos from yours truly
Morrï Mahariel | Serah Mahariel | Morrï
A bunch of amateur solos from yours truly
All it would take to bring Zerker gear in line with other gear is adding frequent, low-damage attacks to PvE enemies. That way, the Zerker characters simply cannot dodge/block absolutely everything like they can now. Cooldowns will become much more important and defensive stats will make more of a difference. Zerker geared players would have to occasionally back off of their target, heal up, and in general play more catiously than they do now.
As a side-effect, it would also boost the effectiveness of Confusion and Retaliation, which most people agree are terribly weak in PvE.
I’m hoping for a bit of balancing both for zerkers and PvE content.
I have a friend who pretty much makes all his characters with zerker stats, and does oodles of damage all the time. Playing with him makes all my characters pretty much useless since he one hit kills almost everything. Sometimes I don’t get my loot/ach/heart done because he just roflstomps over everything. Of course I let him know that he needs to back off a bit, but that’s just my point.
He has no reason to change because it’s so effective, and for me it’s no fun at all.
Even if this isn’t exaggeration, your friend cannot possibly stop you from completing hearts or getting your loot. Even if he one hit kills almost everything…all you have to do is land one hit to get your credit. Even if he kills mobs you need for your heart/achievement, there are more than one of the same mob and they respawn. At the very least if he really is one shotting mobs you need, he is being a jerk if he knows this and is intentionally making it hard for you.
Which is entirely correct. Bad players can’t actively mitigate so they rely on passive mitigation, good players can rely on their own skill. However we aren’t asking for PVT to be removed, we just want PVT users to read our lfgs and not join them.
You are only good as your competition is and the current iteration of pve is very very simple. There is a reason why zerker are seen as free kills in pvp while they are good in pve.
Amd Ryzen 1800x – Amd Fury X -64GB of ram
Windows 10
Windows 10
Which is entirely correct. Bad players can’t actively mitigate so they rely on passive mitigation, good players can rely on their own skill. However we aren’t asking for PVT to be removed, we just want PVT users to read our lfgs and not join them.
It’s entirely wrong. People don’t play pvt because they “can’t actively mitigate”.
Which is entirely correct. Bad players can’t actively mitigate so they rely on passive mitigation, good players can rely on their own skill. However we aren’t asking for PVT to be removed, we just want PVT users to read our lfgs and not join them.
This entire thought process is completely irrational. Having full PVT armor doesn’t mean a thing if you still don’t know how to dodge. I’ve been in parties where all the zerkers couldn’t dodge a kitten thing and died within 30 seconds yet the one person in PVT armor dodged all the heavy hitting skills, and ended up surviving long enough to kill the boss solo (4 minutes). Armor sets do not equal skill, and if they did we could reverse the thought process easily. The reverse would be that zerker players are so bad that they have to zerk because they don’t know how to play well enough to actually survive longer than 30 seconds.
It’s opinions like yours which is why people tend to hate players wearing zerker, you have such giant egos that it makes people WANT zerker to get heavily nerfed just to break your egos into tiny pieces. Get rid of that ego good sir, ASAP, before it breaks and you go into a depression you may never get out of. One last thing…
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
So because you played with bad players that means an entire stat combination should be nerfed or removed? Do you realise how extreme that is?
Yeah it’s happening more and more frequently. I’m not sure if there’s an influx of bad players or what but if if players can’t even survive 1 or 2 hits from a normal mob, I think it’s time for a gear change. As far as being a bad player because I run PVT, well, I admit I’m not the greatest player in the world but I’m usually alive after everyone else is dead. Also, I do not join groups that post zerker or fast runs, I start my own group but maybe my mistake is I don’t post casual or something similar. Sometimes I do post 80’s only because I’ve been in some bad runs where anyone less than 80 just can’t survive and brings the rest of the group down.
(edited by Robert.4197)
Which is entirely correct. Bad players can’t actively mitigate so they rely on passive mitigation, good players can rely on their own skill. However we aren’t asking for PVT to be removed, we just want PVT users to read our lfgs and not join them.
It’s entirely wrong. People don’t play pvt because they “can’t actively mitigate”.
Why else would you choose to wear gear in pve that makes everything get accomplished slower? Active mitigation includes dodging/blind/snares/weakness/aegis, etc. If you are doing all of those things and not taking damage as a result…then why would you wear gear with stats that do nothing for you…instead of wearing gear that will do something for you?
This does not mean that bad’s are limited to pvt/clerics…being bad is equal opportunity…zerks can be worse than pvts/clerics.
I still don’t see a problem with zerker in pve? are people just kitten because they can’t be healers and need an excuse to stop dying?
Because they can’t be healers or tanks, yes.
RNG is a bell curve. Better hope you’re on the right side.
All it would take to bring Zerker gear in line with other gear is adding frequent, low-damage attacks to PvE enemies. That way, the Zerker characters simply cannot dodge/block absolutely everything like they can now. Cooldowns will become much more important and defensive stats will make more of a difference. Zerker geared players would have to occasionally back off of their target, heal up, and in general play more catiously than they do now.
Or they’ll get more Thieves with offhand pistol smoke field.
You are only good as your competition is and the current iteration of pve is very very simple. There is a reason why zerker are seen as free kills in pvp while they are good in pve.
Then please tell me why there’s such a wide skill gap between a majority of the dungeon forum regulars and your average pug?
I’ve completed Arah p2 in ~12 1/2 minutes and Arah p3 in ~9 minutes, what about your average pug?
It’s entirely wrong. People don’t play pvt because they “can’t actively mitigate”.
Then please give an alternate reason.
This entire thought process is completely irrational. Having full PVT armor doesn’t mean a thing if you still don’t know how to dodge. I’ve been in parties where all the zerkers couldn’t dodge a kitten thing and died within 30 seconds yet the one person in PVT armor dodged all the heavy hitting skills, and ended up surviving long enough to kill the boss solo (4 minutes). Armor sets do not equal skill, and if they did we could reverse the thought process easily. The reverse would be that zerker players are so bad that they have to zerk because they don’t know how to play well enough to actually survive longer than 30 seconds.
If they were dodging all of the hard hitting skills then why wear PVT?
Yeah it’s happening more and more frequently. I’m not sure if there’s an influx of bad players or what but if if players can’t even survive 1 or 2 hits from a normal mob, I think it’s time for a gear change. As far as being a bad player because I run PVT, well, I admit I’m not the greatest player in the world but I’m usually alive after everyone else is dead. Also, I do not join groups that post zerker or fast runs, I start my own group but maybe my mistake is I don’t post casual or something similar. Sometimes I do post 80’s only because I’ve been in some bad runs where anyone less than 80 just can’t survive and brings the rest of the group down.
Now this is a perfectly reasonable opinion I can accept. “Yeah, I run PVT because maybe my reflexes aren’t as good as zerkers, but I tend to survive longer than most of them”. Maybe you should write “no rude people”, and then if you get a zerker telling you to get good just boot them because they clearly don’t fit the criteria of your group (that criteria being no rude people, not the negative implication everyone on here would jump on me for).
Because they can’t be healers or tanks, yes.
Funnily enough, ANet said we aren’t having dedicated healers or tanks. Yet people keep trying to stick the trinity cube in to the GW2 triangle slot.
Sanctum of Rall (NA) | [LOD]
Morrï Mahariel | Serah Mahariel | Morrï
A bunch of amateur solos from yours truly
Morrï Mahariel | Serah Mahariel | Morrï
A bunch of amateur solos from yours truly
Shouldn’t it be more like “stick the trinity triangle into the GW2 octagon”?
RNG is a bell curve. Better hope you’re on the right side.
How To Make Berserker Gear Less Effective (ANET STYLE):
make everything immune to crits (tequatl)
also, look at all this resentment coming people who hate the DPS meta and want zerker to be nerfed. here’s some news: DPS will still be meta after any “balancing” anet does. all anet will succeed at doing is making dungeon runs slower. people will still run glass builds with minimal defensive utility.
All it would take to bring Zerker gear in line with other gear is adding frequent, low-damage attacks to PvE enemies. That way, the Zerker characters simply cannot dodge/block absolutely everything like they can now. Cooldowns will become much more important and defensive stats will make more of a difference. Zerker geared players would have to occasionally back off of their target, heal up, and in general play more catiously than they do now.
Or they’ll get more Thieves with offhand pistol smoke field.
That’s another possibility, though then the Thief is using quite a bit of initiative for melee range avoidance that doesn’t work on bosses or Dredge.
Its good that they’ll nerf zerker.
Why exactly?
Because it divides the community. I run PVT guardian and ran HOW P1, ended up with all zerkers. At the end boss, everyone kept going down and 1 guy died next to an NPC, when I went to rez him, I ended up rezzing the NPC instead. This guy calls me out on it and I apologize. Then he proceeds to say that the reason we are having trouble is because I can’t do enough damage and that the NPC probably does more damage then I do. Well, the other party members didn’t like that comment and actually decided to kick him. We got another party member and finished the dungeon.
I decide to do SE path 1 and everyone decides to stack in the corner for the 3 golems, everyone goes down in a matter of a few seconds. I could tell they were zerkers. After 3 tries we finally got it. After finishing that path, went on to p3. Well, group decided to run past all the mobs right before the first boss and all the enemies got aggroed, followed and wiped everyone out 2 times. After everyone was already downed the 3rd time within a matter of seconds, I just decided to call it quits today. Next time I’m in a dungeon, I’m almost thinking about posting “No Zerkers” I mean maybe I can’t kill enemies as fast as the other people but if people are going down after 1 or 2 hits, how much faster can it be to have to start over and over and over again because the whole party wipes?
So you run a couple of dungeons with some nubs and that is enough reason to want a nerf on zerk which will in itself do absolutely fk all in promoting gear diversity?
If anything your examples demonstrate that it is not easy to run in zerk gear unless you know what you are doing. Which is why they can and should be able to clear stuff faster if they do actually know what they are doing.
(edited by Fenrir.3609)
There is a differnce in nerfing a set of gear (which they won’t do, that throws off the stat calculations) and making the play environments less favorable to said gear setup. This is apparent in PvP where Zerker amulet is nowhere close to dominant (though it does get used). The difference in the attack frequency and comparative unpredictablility of players is the main cause for this.
The thing is that zerker brings a holier than thou attitude and if something goes wrong the guy that isn’t zerker is blamed. This game is supposed to be fun but how can it be fun when everyone takes it so seriously and rage quits or starts being insulting when a dungeon takes 2 minutes longer than it should have?
We don’t know what they mean by shifting the meta in pve, if by this statement implies add new gameplay mechanics and making Zerk harder to use but still efficient in the physical dps encounters, I all for this but if it means they are adding gimmicks, or even gear nerf that would be atrocious.
There is a differnce in nerfing a set of gear (which they won’t do, that throws off the stat calculations) and making the play environments less favorable to said gear setup. This is apparent in PvP where Zerker amulet is nowhere close to dominant (though it does get used). The difference in the attack frequency and comparative unpredictablility of players is the main cause for this.
Which is down to the combat mechanics. If they are going to promote diversity by altering the combat mechanics, then they have a chance of making it work… but it is a hell of an overhaul.
If they just nerf zerk gear, then they will simply make the next highest dps set up the new king of the hill for pve.
The impression is that some simply hate the fact that those in zerk gear can clear content faster than they can and as such they want a nerf, regardless as to the actual merits of that nerf.
It’s entirely wrong. People don’t play pvt because they “can’t actively mitigate”.
Then please give an alternate reason.
They want a different type of experience from the game, obviously.
It’s entirely wrong. People don’t play pvt because they “can’t actively mitigate”.
Then please give an alternate reason.
They want a different type of experience from the game, obviously.
Such as?
How To Make Berserker Gear Less Effective (ANET STYLE):
make everything immune to crits (tequatl)also, look at all this resentment coming people who hate the DPS meta and want zerker to be nerfed. here’s some news: DPS will still be meta after any “balancing” anet does. all anet will succeed at doing is making dungeon runs slower. people will still run glass builds with minimal defensive utility.
You can still run glass builds. But if Arenanet hits the right spot during the coming process the glass build will not longer the fastest way to complete the majority of the dungeons.
There is a differnce in nerfing a set of gear (which they won’t do, that throws off the stat calculations) and making the play environments less favorable to said gear setup. This is apparent in PvP where Zerker amulet is nowhere close to dominant (though it does get used). The difference in the attack frequency and comparative unpredictablility of players is the main cause for this.
Which is down to the combat mechanics. If they are going to promote diversity by altering the combat mechanics, then they have a chance of making it work… but it is a hell of an overhaul.
Wrong. Combat mechanics would remain the same. All that would change is NPC attack routines. Frequent, low damage attacks could not all be avoided (the current NPC attack style of slow, big attacks can), and the damage would add up, forcing Zerker players to back off occasionally.
The reason Zerker is not the be-all-end-all of WvW and PvP is the constant, sustained damage. PvE lacks this.
(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)
If they were dodging all of the hard hitting skills then why wear PVT?
Because they probably do not like the glass cannon playstyle at all. I’ve played it and can rock with it, but I do NOT like the style. It’s why I don’t use it at all. I’ve got a trap Ranger, wellmancer, healing engineer, regen thief, banner warrior, darkwater mesmer, shout guardian, and support staff ele, if that list tells you what type of setups I prefer.
There is a differnce in nerfing a set of gear (which they won’t do, that throws off the stat calculations) and making the play environments less favorable to said gear setup. This is apparent in PvP where Zerker amulet is nowhere close to dominant (though it does get used). The difference in the attack frequency and comparative unpredictablility of players is the main cause for this.
Which is down to the combat mechanics. If they are going to promote diversity by altering the combat mechanics, then they have a chance of making it work… but it is a hell of an overhaul.
Wrong. Combat mechanics would remain the same. All that would change is NPC attack routines. Frequent, low damage attacks could not all be avoided (the current NPC attack style of slow, big attacks can), and the damage would add up, forcing Zerker players to back off occasionally.
Like how some of those pirates act in Lornar’s Pass, or how some of the bandits act in Queensdale? Cause some of them do not stop attacking much, and they tend to dodge. Actually, thinking on it…wouldn’t it be possible to have a bunch of enemies with frenzy as the counter? We’ve seen how fast Abominations can act once they get a bunch of stacks of it.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
(edited by RyuDragnier.9476)
There is a differnce in nerfing a set of gear (which they won’t do, that throws off the stat calculations) and making the play environments less favorable to said gear setup. This is apparent in PvP where Zerker amulet is nowhere close to dominant (though it does get used). The difference in the attack frequency and comparative unpredictablility of players is the main cause for this.
Which is down to the combat mechanics. If they are going to promote diversity by altering the combat mechanics, then they have a chance of making it work… but it is a hell of an overhaul.
Wrong. Combat mechanics would remain the same. All that would change is NPC attack routines. Frequent, low damage attacks could not all be avoided (the current NPC attack style of slow, big attacks can), and the damage would add up, forcing Zerker players to back off occasionally.
Well no, it’s not wrong at all really. NPC attack routines are all part of the pve combat mechanics. Hence I have mentioned telegraphed spike attacks from npcs in the past.
Perhaps you didn’t see those posts or perhaps I hadn’t explained it well enough.
The way the npcs actually engage in combat falls under the jurisdiction of pve combat mechanics as far as I am concerned. You need to alter that if you are going to promote build diversity, simply reducing the damage output on zerk will do fk all to promote build diversity.
Which is why we see such a marked difference in gear set ups between pve and w3/pvp.
It’s entirely wrong. People don’t play pvt because they “can’t actively mitigate”.
Then please give an alternate reason.
They want a different type of experience from the game, obviously.
Such as?
Soloing open world content like the Harathi Hinterlands centaur event chain. I would imagine that would be very difficult in zerker gear. Now I will admit, the time invested probably isn’t worth the reward but it’s a nice fun challenging event chain.
The ideal “nerf” to zerker is to change the way/amount that toughness decreases damage, and to give bosses access to serious condition applicaion/removal and damage reflect abilities. (Retaliation comes to mind).
It’s possible to create a meta that requires the different setups, without directly nerfing the zerker setup at all. Just change the content so that DPS DPS DPS DSP 11111111 isn’t the best way to do everything.
Let’s face it. As many have said it’s not about the gear – it’s about stupid AI in and stupid skill layouts of mobs in this game. Because of this it all comes down to burn down the mob as fast as possible while avoiding (dodging) mob attacks at the right moment. No gear change will solve this. Actually it would make things even more worse and pushing the “heavies” meta even more (which would be fine with ANet, though ;-) )
Yet ANet will not change AI or skill layouts. Why? Because it would be too much of an investment. And for what? Would it attract more players to this game? I highly doubt it.
We can complain all we want. It won’t change much. If you’re looking for a more team oriented dungeon experience then don’t expect it from this game.
There is a differnce in nerfing a set of gear (which they won’t do, that throws off the stat calculations) and making the play environments less favorable to said gear setup. This is apparent in PvP where Zerker amulet is nowhere close to dominant (though it does get used). The difference in the attack frequency and comparative unpredictablility of players is the main cause for this.
Which is down to the combat mechanics. If they are going to promote diversity by altering the combat mechanics, then they have a chance of making it work… but it is a hell of an overhaul.
Wrong. Combat mechanics would remain the same. All that would change is NPC attack routines. Frequent, low damage attacks could not all be avoided (the current NPC attack style of slow, big attacks can), and the damage would add up, forcing Zerker players to back off occasionally.
Well no, it’s not wrong at all really. NPC attack routines are all part of the pve combat mechanics. Hence I have mentioned telegraphed spike attacks from npcs in the past.
Perhaps you didn’t see those posts or perhaps I hadn’t explained it well enough.
The way the npcs actually engage in combat falls under the jurisdiction of pve combat mechanics as far as I am concerned. You need to alter that if you are going to promote build diversity, simply reducing the damage output on zerk will do fk all to promote build diversity.
Which is why we see such a marked difference in gear set ups between pve and w3/pvp.
In that case, we agree on everything but the definition of “combat mechanics”. To me, “Combat mechanics” is the rules that combat actually follows. NPC behavior does not fall under this as it is not the rules themselves, but how they operate under said rules. NPC behavior is more closely related to a “playstyle” than a “mechanic”.
You can still run glass builds. But if Arenanet hits the right spot during the coming process the glass build will not longer the fastest way to complete the majority of the dungeons.
Basically, all they’ll end up doing is swap the current DPS meta for another meta and things will resume as usual with whinning about the new meta (see pvp condi bombing meta of doom). Nothing gained but with great possibility of losing much.
If I had to back off occasionally it’ll make it all the more important that I do as much damage as I can as fast as I can. It doesn’t lessen that because I don’t want encounters to last longer. I mean really. After the 10,000th Frozen Maw fight I want it to go as fast as possible.
RNG is a bell curve. Better hope you’re on the right side.
If I had to back off occasionally it’ll make it all the more important that I do as much damage as I can as fast as I can. It doesn’t lessen that because I don’t want encounters to last longer. I mean really. After the 10,000th Frozen Maw fight I want it to go as fast as possible.
True, however right now, Berserker-geared people don’t ever need to back off. Thus, their DPS is high all the time. If they did have to back off, then the killing time goes up, bringing Zerker gear more in line with other gear sets.
Soloing open world content like the Harathi Hinterlands centaur event chain. I would imagine that would be very difficult in zerker gear. Now I will admit, the time invested probably isn’t worth the reward but it’s a nice fun challenging event chain.
Open world is very difficult in a zerker gear? You must be jesting.
True, however right now, Berserker-geared people don’t ever need to back off. Thus, their DPS is high all the time. If they did have to back off, then the killing time goes up, bringing Zerker gear more in line with other gear sets.
So what would be the point of going full offense if you have similar kill times with other gear set? Rewarding passive play? Have you seen the amount of QQs about that in pvp forums?
True, however right now, Berserker-geared people don’t ever need to back off. Thus, their DPS is high all the time. If they did have to back off, then the killing time goes up, bringing Zerker gear more in line with other gear sets.
So what would be the point of going full offense if you have similar kill times with other gear set? Rewarding passive play? Have you seen the amount of QQs about that in pvp forums?
What passive play in pve? I don’t think anyone should try to make the term passive play interchangeable with its definition in pvp. Because its not the same.
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If I recall in one of the CDI threads or STOG interview JS said he wants more active and less passive play but I can’t remember if that was in referrance to PVP or PVE. So, if that Dev carries any weight then passive play (read: condi builds) ain’t going to get any better which means nerfing zerker builds.
And Drarnor, the point I was making I’m going to do everything to make the fight go faster meaning being as zerker as I can without having to back off… So, instead of being 100% I will go 90% zerk and make up that 10% by not having to back off. I will find the balance to make sure the fight goes just as fast.
RNG is a bell curve. Better hope you’re on the right side.