Guild Wars 2

just as I thought ..

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

elementalist can literally shut me down so I do nothing but sit on my face or give them boons/do nothing from their various defence skills combine that with quick castings vs my slow and extremely animated casts… need I say more

Just so ppl dont have to jump back a page tobsee what you wrote.

But this is so true even with blinds a ele can keep a necro locked down easily

I wouldn’t have an issue with this – I think Necros need reliable stability on a utility given the prevalence of hard CC spam in this game.

During the last week I recently switched across to my condition Necro for some WvW, with no points in Soul Reaping (as opposed to my Power Necro with 30 points), and it is amazing how quickly life force drains while in deathshroud – you blink and it’s gone.

Having played a power Necro for so long i didn’t think it was this bad for condition Necros.

The natural degen on DS is just bad….

It’s been most interesting to read up on all the adamant opposition to a reliable source of Stability for the Necromancer. I wonder if most of the complaints would tone down if Runes of Nightmare got deleted?

Oakwind.6187:

It’s been most interesting to read up on all the adamant opposition to a reliable source of Stability for the Necromancer. I wonder if most of the complaints would tone down if Runes of Nightmare got deleted?

I just dislike Stability in general. If it were only one class having any reliable access to it at all ,and that class was all about stability (basically, their entire defence was that they’re un-CC-able, otherwise not having anything going for them), then I would feel much better about balance.

Stability is a stupid thing. I’d rather have balanced CC than balanced Stability. Why fix symptoms?

so because somebody doesn’t want to lose dps and take their own source of reliable stability nightmare runes need to be deleted and necro cant have stability?

Carighan.6758:

Oakwind.6187:

It’s been most interesting to read up on all the adamant opposition to a reliable source of Stability for the Necromancer. I wonder if most of the complaints would tone down if Runes of Nightmare got deleted?

I just dislike Stability in general. If it were only one class having any reliable access to it at all ,and that class was all about stability (basically, their entire defence was that they’re un-CC-able, otherwise not having anything going for them), then I would feel much better about balance.

Stability is a stupid thing. I’d rather have balanced CC than balanced Stability. Why fix symptoms?

Because it arent symptoms, what you are saying you would rather have a slew of mild diseases with no medicine or antibodies than dangerous diseases but with proper protection against them.

You know its totally that Cholera, Influenza, Tuberculosis, Smallpox, etc which were all prevented/death rates reduced from over 20% to less than 3% with proper antibody strength via vaccination werent such cases…

Id rather go with the case where only natures apex predators can outdo our scientific defense than where every little pathetic insect can be a death toll (aka actual builds designed to counter necros should hard counter necros, not anything with cc slapped trough its kit).

Oakwind.6187:

It’s been most interesting to read up on all the adamant opposition to a reliable source of Stability for the Necromancer. I wonder if most of the complaints would tone down if Runes of Nightmare got deleted?

No, I think It is a “scholar” profession getting stability as a whole. The king of conditions, with the highest health pool, having the ability to eliminate its only true weakness in battle.

You will simply not convince anyone out of the select 12 of you who keep arguing for it.

As a whole, the necromancer has the highest average cool down on stun breakers. Followed by the engineer. I think the best route to go is to change all of the 50s-60 cool down stun breakers to a 40s cool down. Asking for stability is over reaching in the eyes of most players, given their ability to put out so much condition damage, combined with the high natural health pool, as well as the added health pool of death shroud.

dancingmonkey.4902:

You will simply not convince anyone out of the select 12 of you who keep arguing for it.

That’s a pretty bold assertion, that all but 12 people would agree with this proposal.

For all you know the wider population may not have a problem with this – again, there are only about 2 or 3 people in this thread arguing against this… so we could flip that around the other way, couldn’t we?

I think a few people still have a sprinkle of hatred toward the Necro class which has been left over from the Dhummfire days…

Also, it’s only true weakness is not just against crowd control, but poor mobility and the lack of escape options as well.

Well im also ok with reducing spectral armour and spectral walk to 40sec cd skills. But then those clearly would be op. Making a useless signet a stunbreak + stability doesnt really compare to buffing already strong skills to be even stronger.

Avigrus.2871:

That’s a pretty bold assertion, that all but 12 people would agree with this proposal.

For all you know the wider population may not have a problem with this – again, there are only about 2 or 3 people in this thread arguing against this… so we could flip that around the other way, couldn’t we?

It is an assertion? No more or less then some of your statements here.

No, we do not know what the wider population does or does not want. Although there are more players arguing against it in this thread alone then are arguing for it.

So sure, try to flip it around if you like. Make all the assumption you like that the entirety of the community wants necros to have more stability. Feel free to convince us that everyone who mains and prefers other professions want this. Particularly when half of the players here who do play necros disagree with it.

What I do not get is how you ignore the suggestion of lowering the cool downs on stun breaker. What that says to me is that you have less of a concern about dealing with CC itself and simply want cheese mode with stability.

As far as your reference to ele stability. Well it has already been pointed out that, that given the necro skills that already offer stability, the necro has significantly more stability per minute up time average then the ele and the engineer. So why you keep referencing them is hard to understand.

spoj.9672:

Well im also ok with reducing spectral armour and spectral walk to 40sec cd skills. But then those clearly would be op. Making a useless signet a stunbreak + stability doesnt really compare to buffing already strong skills to be even stronger.

Well as a concession you could change spectral armor from 6s to 5s. I do not personally think it is OP either way, but that is just me.

Claiming the signet is useless as it is, after all of the post made complaining about mobility here, seems a bit counter intuitive to most of the arguments. Either mobility is a problem or it isn’t. When so many posters use this as a justification for stability, but your more then happy to ditch it, it suggest you do not feel lack of mobility is an issue. Personally I like the signet for the movement rate boost. If I was to have stability anywhere, I would prefer to have it where it already is, and have the well of power simply pulse it. That way your not adding a new boon to any skill. You are simply making it useful on a skill that already has it.

coglin.1867 – let me explain this is the way that even a idiot undestands this: Because necros have 0 of the following: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade (everyone has base 2 dodges ofc) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Teleport (shadow step section counts too; all of the necro ones require pre casts and are easily countered, while all others are get out of jail free aoe targeted ranged cc ignoring blinks).

Thus necros do need stability to keep their in yo face you cant get away from me role (defined by anet themselves).
Be it by turning Foot in the Grave to Shade, swapping how DS cd works while adding at least 1 more second to it or Stability on a utility (actual stability so 5+ seconds on a under 90s cooldown utility skill with other effects or just stability under a 40s cooldown/pointing to Bstance and Stand your ground).

Also how do Eles which can benefit of net 10 stability pre 10 seconds in a functional way without sacrifices have worse stability application than necros who have to give up their profession mechanic for 30% of that gain?

dancingmonkey.4902:

Oakwind.6187:

It’s been most interesting to read up on all the adamant opposition to a reliable source of Stability for the Necromancer. I wonder if most of the complaints would tone down if Runes of Nightmare got deleted?

No, I think It is a “scholar” profession getting stability as a whole. The king of conditions, with the highest health pool, having the ability to eliminate its only true weakness in battle.

You will simply not convince anyone out of the select 12 of you who keep arguing for it.

As a whole, the necromancer has the highest average cool down on stun breakers. Followed by the engineer. I think the best route to go is to change all of the 50s-60 cool down stun breakers to a 40s cool down. Asking for stability is over reaching in the eyes of most players, given their ability to put out so much condition damage, combined with the high natural health pool, as well as the added health pool of death shroud.

since shuumfire necro has become anything but the “king of conditions” the bleeds are weak and slow to apply and are easily cleansed engie is way better at spreading DAMAGING conditions.. you know the useful ones but they also have a hell of a lot of defence abilities

and lets not forget a necro actually needs to wave its very slow sceptre in the first place to apply conditions something that cant be done while stunned

our defence is this keep our 2 precious dodges for the cc bomb and just let someone smack us for constant 1k+ hits in the face or dodge AND TRY TO SOFT CC them that can be easily cleansed and have slow obvious animations not to mentions soft cc doesn’t faze some professions at all… either way necro is dead

so I ask again… why is waiting for 5-8 seconds so op for you ? I can turn around and say just avoid it back to you.. you have cleanses don’t you? you have dodges don’t you? you have invulnerability don’t you? so use them while necro has stability, or better yet… if your professions can strip the stability from the necro its not like it can be covered by any other boons because the ones necro does have are impractical to use and barely last long enough to do anything

see how the arguments work both ways?

Personally i don’t see a point in adding stability to LS. We have no other boons to hide it and thx to the passive everybody will know to safe at least 1 condi removal for necro.

DeceiverX.8361:

I still don’t understand.
“No” stability becomes “little” stability.

And that having to build for it becomes an issue.
And that using DS to stay alive while CC’ed is not the same as blowing utilities to stay alive and blow dodges to prevent the damage to prevent dying (rather than just facetanking the damage).
And that signet of the Locust is not a good signet because it’s not worth activating… except this applies to a ton of other signets across every class.
And that necromancer’s weakness is mobility when they have such high access to mobility via a signet like other classes (dependent on a waste of a skill slot like everyone else) or still having access to it via DS through traits.
And that Necros deserve mitigation + stability + tanking options + the ability to run a MM build for DPS and control.

These demands are absolutely outrageous. If you want to frontline in a zerg, you’re going to have to build for it. Otherwise, do what everyone else has to do and avoid the stunlock through dodges and blind applications.

You’re not getting any sympathy from me as on my eight characters, I do not have stability, teleports, blindspam, or durability on any of them, and I do not get chain-CC’ed because I can use my dodges well and simply avoid getting hit through proper positioning.

It’s the fact of only having one real pathway for active defence while every other class has options open to them. Yeah sure these options may not be lengthy in nature, but neither is Death shroud. In the end this post is starting to go off topic from the stability idea.

Alternate approach: do something about the atrocious cast times the class is saddled with on a lot of its skills.

Then the few reactive defense measures (BLinds, etc) Necros are given actually can be used without being prescient.

Overkillengine.6084:

Alternate approach: do something about the atrocious cast times the class is saddled with on a lot of its skills.

Then the few reactive defense measures (BLinds, etc) Necros are given actually can be used without being prescient.

maby lowering the cooldowns also but the problem still remains no stability means necro is still way too vulnerable to cc which is mostly on low cooldowns as I have said specific classes/builds can shut down a necro almost permanently so they cant do anything even in 1v1 situations

The Primary.6371:

DeceiverX.8361:

I still don’t understand.
“No” stability becomes “little” stability.

And that having to build for it becomes an issue.
And that using DS to stay alive while CC’ed is not the same as blowing utilities to stay alive and blow dodges to prevent the damage to prevent dying (rather than just facetanking the damage).
And that signet of the Locust is not a good signet because it’s not worth activating… except this applies to a ton of other signets across every class.
And that necromancer’s weakness is mobility when they have such high access to mobility via a signet like other classes (dependent on a waste of a skill slot like everyone else) or still having access to it via DS through traits.
And that Necros deserve mitigation + stability + tanking options + the ability to run a MM build for DPS and control.

These demands are absolutely outrageous. If you want to frontline in a zerg, you’re going to have to build for it. Otherwise, do what everyone else has to do and avoid the stunlock through dodges and blind applications.

You’re not getting any sympathy from me as on my eight characters, I do not have stability, teleports, blindspam, or durability on any of them, and I do not get chain-CC’ed because I can use my dodges well and simply avoid getting hit through proper positioning.

It’s the fact of only having one real pathway for active defence while every other class has options open to them. Yeah sure these options may not be lengthy in nature, but neither is Death shroud. In the end this post is starting to go off topic from the stability idea.

Not really, though. Proper positioning and predicting player movement and attack patterns, subsequently making one never get hit to begin with is the ultimate form of active defense and CC negation.

That’s why I don’t even bother with anything for it on my characters. It’s actually not necessary whatsoever, and frankly, I find it more of a crutch for people more than anything.

The only time it’s arguably necessary is when you’re zerging in WvW. In which case, why are you front-lining a necro? Where is your guard’s stability? Those are the results of not actually being part of a group but just thinking you are by being alongside them.

It’s even been admitted to that necros are fine if not one of the best classes for WvW earlier in this thread, with even supporters claiming it wouldn’t be necessary for it.

OP never specified WvW or sPvP. PvP generally speaking refers to both. And because it would be so absurd in WvW, this is not the kind of change that needs to be made to the necromancer. A stun break + 1 sec stability for a reposition? Sure. They have the HP to take the initial hit, and with proper timing and reflexes, could simply get out of that kind of situation. Long-duration stability is not the answer, though, especially when gameplay-wise currently, it is one of the best ways/fewest ways to kill a necro.

@topic:

CC hits everyone like a train when it hits. That’s why necros have that nice health pool + death shroud. My characters get CC’ed, and I die. I main:

A max-burst D/D signet thief (so I enter a fight revealed with all of my utilities blown and no active defense in my build or on my weapons), and have no issues with getting CC’ed. Not because I live through it, or because of any traits or skills, but because of dodging, with no endurance modifiers or anything, just as every other class.

A longbow/longbow bird/bird 6/6/2/0/0 full berserker weapon swap burst ranger. Again, I run just a single stunbreak here, effectively placing me in the realm of “don’t get hit or die.”

And I run into no issues on either of these classes, despite the low health pools and almost no ways to deal with it. Giving the necro the capacity to even further facetank counterplay in WvW just makes no sense when other players (or simply, everyone, including necromancers) have the capacity to do so on builds which have no access to any forms of negation and strictly less survivability, and do so by individual player skill.

DeceiverX.8361:

The Primary.6371:

DeceiverX.8361:

I still don’t understand.
“No” stability becomes “little” stability.

And that having to build for it becomes an issue.
And that using DS to stay alive while CC’ed is not the same as blowing utilities to stay alive and blow dodges to prevent the damage to prevent dying (rather than just facetanking the damage).
And that signet of the Locust is not a good signet because it’s not worth activating… except this applies to a ton of other signets across every class.
And that necromancer’s weakness is mobility when they have such high access to mobility via a signet like other classes (dependent on a waste of a skill slot like everyone else) or still having access to it via DS through traits.
And that Necros deserve mitigation + stability + tanking options + the ability to run a MM build for DPS and control.

These demands are absolutely outrageous. If you want to frontline in a zerg, you’re going to have to build for it. Otherwise, do what everyone else has to do and avoid the stunlock through dodges and blind applications.

You’re not getting any sympathy from me as on my eight characters, I do not have stability, teleports, blindspam, or durability on any of them, and I do not get chain-CC’ed because I can use my dodges well and simply avoid getting hit through proper positioning.

It’s the fact of only having one real pathway for active defence while every other class has options open to them. Yeah sure these options may not be lengthy in nature, but neither is Death shroud. In the end this post is starting to go off topic from the stability idea.

Not really, though. Proper positioning and predicting player movement and attack patterns, subsequently making one never get hit to begin with is the ultimate form of active defense and CC negation.

That’s why I don’t even bother with anything for it on my characters. It’s actually not necessary whatsoever, and frankly, I find it more of a crutch for people more than anything.

The only time it’s arguably necessary is when you’re zerging in WvW. In which case, why are you front-lining a necro? Where is your guard’s stability? Those are the results of not actually being part of a group but just thinking you are by being alongside them.

It’s even been admitted to that necros are fine if not one of the best classes for WvW earlier in this thread, with even supporters claiming it wouldn’t be necessary for it.

OP never specified WvW or sPvP. PvP generally speaking refers to both. And because it would be so absurd in WvW, this is not the kind of change that needs to be made to the necromancer. A stun break + 1 sec stability for a reposition? Sure. They have the HP to take the initial hit, and with proper timing and reflexes, could simply get out of that kind of situation. Long-duration stability is not the answer, though, especially when gameplay-wise currently, it is one of the best ways/fewest ways to kill a necro.

@topic:

CC hits everyone like a train when it hits. That’s why necros have that nice health pool + death shroud. My characters get CC’ed, and I die. I main:

A max-burst D/D signet thief (so I enter a fight revealed with all of my utilities blown and no active defense in my build or on my weapons), and have no issues with getting CC’ed. Not because I live through it, or because of any traits or skills, but because of dodging, with no endurance modifiers or anything, just as every other class.

A longbow/longbow bird/bird 6/6/2/0/0 full berserker weapon swap burst ranger. Again, I run just a single stunbreak here, effectively placing me in the realm of “don’t get hit or die.”

And I run into no issues on either of these classes, despite the low health pools and almost no ways to deal with it. Giving the necro the capacity to even further facetank counterplay in WvW just makes no sense when other players (or simply, everyone, including necromancers) have the capacity to do so on builds which have no access to any forms of negation and strictly less survivability, and do so by individual player skill.

blowing all your cooldowns before you run away is your fault on the thief .. ranger has plenty of cc and constantly does damage while cc’d with your pet to keep the enemy at bay till it wears off not to mention by the time someone reaches you they are usually low hp from all the damage you have done from range

I did specify pvp?………….. and wow@@ you can negate up to 4 cc blasts from some professions on low cooldowns with 2 dodges? amazing…

proper positioning? so I am forced to be pointless and stand beyond 600 range and just go pew pew pew with my staff ?

DeceiverX.8361:

CC hits everyone like a train when it hits. That’s why necros have that nice health pool + death shroud. My characters get CC’ed, and I die. I main:

Actually no they dont, just on ranger you got: GS evade, GS Block, Shorbow evade, Sword evade, the second sword evade, Axe projectile reflection, Dagger evade, tSoStone, tSoWild, Lightning Reflexes, Rampage as One, Primal Reflexes, Vigorous Renewal, Enlargement and Vigorous Training.
ANY of it can be used to efficiently give you at least 1 more dodge/more immunity than necro can ever hope to.

Andele.1306:

coglin.1867 – let me explain this is the way that even a idiot undestands this: Because necros have 0 of the following: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade (everyone has base 2 dodges ofc) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Teleport (shadow step section counts too; all of the necro ones require pre casts and are easily countered, while all others are get out of jail free aoe targeted ranged cc ignoring blinks).

Wouldn’t even an idiot grasp that it would be more reasonable to ask for one of those benefits you listed then ? If they are so beneficial that you feel another profession, with a ridiculously lower health pool, having one of those skills, is in turn, equal to a profession with a much larger health pool and stability. Then clearly one of those skills is more then enough value.

Let the skill apply aegis perhaps? Something that most players will not feel is as over powering as stability.

Why do you throw thing in there like teleport. Because spectral walk is a teleport, and you use teleporting as a skill you demand is a solution to your issue, how is there a problem? How does another profession having a teleport, proclaim your chosen main profession to be in need of stability. Wouldn’t that standard suggest that engineers and rangers need more stability because they do not have teleports?

i ask again can someone tell me why 8 seconds of stability on a 40 second cooldown is overpowered please?

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

i ask again can someone tell me why 8 seconds of stability on a 40 second cooldown is overpowered please?

Already asked this no one has cone up with a valid reason. Most ppl will say
‘Because your necro’ and most if them have.never actually played the class

and I will keep asking till the people against this give a valid reason… it kind of proves my point in this thread

Because the ONLY weakness in necro is CCing him. High HP, DS, insane (and totally OP) damage, I Win button (lich form), etc.

And I say that some warrior says to me (thief) “if you want stability, take dagger storm and cancel it…”. Do the same with plage/liche form….

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

and I will keep asking till the people against this give a valid reason… it kind of proves my point in this thread

I’ve been observing this thread for quite a while now because I think that sustain and attrition on Necromancers is a very interesting topic. However, you shut down every constructive discussion by rejecting other opinions. It is quite hard to come up with a ‘valid’ reason if you are so resilient at not accepting different points of view than your own. To ask differently, what would you consider a valid reason then?

You have been very adamant about people not delivering any valid reason against Stability on the Locust Signet. However, you yourself haven’t really provided any valid proposition why to actually introduce it. Your only argument has been that Necromancers lack Stability. But that doesn’t make it the most reasonable solution for eventual sustainment issues. I’d even argue that your suggestion isn’t about defense and sustain but more about using Stability offensively which certainly isn’t something Necromancers need. Several people mentioned Stunbreakers as alternative. But yet again, if you don’t want to listen to different points of view anyway it is quite hard to have a constructive discussion.

In general, I’m not against introducing more options of Stability to Necromancers but it should be no way near a 15-25% uptime. It would affect balance way too harshly because CC is one of the weaknesses Necromancers have. Many classes will have no means to counter Necromancers sufficiently if they’d become immune to it. We already got at least one class which can achieve an excessive Stability uptime and it’s just silly. Besides heavily influencing balance Stability is one of those factors which negate the need of thoughtful gameplay (e.g. CC and especially interrupts. Not talking about CC spam) and therefore should not be added to the game too carelessly.

That being said, I’d prefer different solutions over adding new Stability anytime. I specifically dislike suggestions that try to fix a structural issue, e.g. class sustain, by just changing one skill or trait. Because it can result in this skill or trait becoming mandatory. Future class balance would be centered around it. As a result, you could destroy a lot of build diversity.

girien.1209:

And I say that some warrior says to me (thief) “if you want stability, take dagger storm and cancel it…”. Do the same with plage/liche form….

Do the same with Plague/Lich Form and you lose all stability you have.

girien.1209:

Because the ONLY weakness in necro is CCing him. High HP, DS, insane (and totally OP) damage, I Win button (lich form), etc.

And I say that some warrior says to me (thief) “if you want stability, take dagger storm and cancel it…”. Do the same with plage/liche form….

Sorry bro you are wrong. Cc is.not.the.only weakness necros have, we have lack of evades, no movement skills, if DS is hitting you with high danage the.necro.is.running zerker and can be.melted verry fast, high hp low armor,
If you die to lich form lol get better. Lich is.like a kill me sign.
You use thief as a comparison ,then so.will i ,good mobility skills, stealth, conpared.to…oh DS face tank. I will take good access to stealth any day iver stability on my necro.
And it plague form witch is.nice but.negates practicly all our dps.
Ds is not an excuse for everything.

Xaylin.1860:

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

and I will keep asking till the people against this give a valid reason… it kind of proves my point in this thread

I’ve been observing this thread for quite a while now because I think that sustain and attrition on Necromancers is a very interesting topic. However, you shut down every constructive discussion by rejecting other opinions. It is quite hard to come up with a ‘valid’ reason if you are so resilient at not accepting different points of view than your own. To ask differently, what would you consider a valid reason then?

You have been very adamant about people not delivering any valid reason against Stability on the Locust Signet. However, you yourself haven’t really provided any valid proposition why to actually introduced it. Your only argument has been that Necromancers lack Stability. But that doesn’t make it the most reasonable solution for eventual sustainment issues. I’d even argue that your suggestion isn’t about defense and sustain but more about using Stability offensively which certainly isn’t something Necromancers need. Several people mentioned Stunbreakers as alternative. But yet again, if you don’t want to listen to different points of view anyway it is quite hard to have a constructive discussion.

In general, I’m not against introducing more options of Stability to Necromancers but it should be no way near a 15-25% uptime. It would affect balance way too harshly because CC is one of the weaknesses Necromancers have. Many classes will have no means to counter Necromancers sufficiently if they’d become immune to it. We already got at least one class which can achieve an excessive Stability uptime and it’s just silly. Besides heavily influencing balance Stability is one of those factors which negate the need of thoughtful gameplay (e.g. CC and especially interrupts. Not talking about CC spam) and therefore should not be added to the game too carelessly.

That being said, I’d prefer different solutions over adding new Stability anytime. I specifically dislike suggestions that try to fix a structural issue, e.g. class sustain, by just changing one skill or trait. Because it can result in this skill or trait becoming mandatory. Future class balance would be centered around it. As a result, you could destroy a lot of build diversity.

I nuch prefer active gameplay over.passive anyday, but sadly necros have neither and for.uss to get stability we have to take foot in the grave,forcing us to trait towards it which is what you said you dont like being forced.to take traits.
And ya 8s is a bit to high thinking about it, but 5s is another story

well I have been playing spvp for 3 weeks now 450 games so far, it doesn’t matter what build I use it always ends up the same hammer warrior almost complete shutdown if I evade some attacks it still ends up in an eventual shutdown due to low cooldowns and his immunities -.-…….. or friends come because it has taken so long

ele already mentioned earlier.. 1 on 1 they will shut me down and there is nothing I can do about it coupled with fast attacks and crazy healing not to mention the boons and dodging it is a very hard fight to win and usually ends up with the ele full hp and me being stomped or buddies coming to the rescue its only a lucky shot if they don’t dodge my corrupt boon and if I go for it too early it just gets cleansed

engie…. exploding turrets crazy speed I can kill these but its not easy and they need to stuff up, in a group situation tho… good luck

Mesmer.. has its annoying builds for everyone I guess not much you can do against stealth and a wall of meat infront of them

guardian… cant say I have a problem with these guys strangely it may be because they don’t walk around with their hammer like warrior and don’t seem to combo as much cc together I don’t mind getting killed by them even if I cant seem to get them off me >.<

thief well they are annoying (did someone say pistol blind spam) but I can deal with their cc if I get hit its my fault at least I can defend myself as they cant spam it. its always a tough fight 1 on 1 and I enjoy it even if I lose when im on the build I use now, group play vs a thief is another problem tho-.-……(free kills to them)

ranger… im usually dead before I can get to them and when I do get close they just stick me to the spot with their pet or blast me back with their bow…… but that is my build and it isn’t spammy so I don’t care so much.

now this is all 1 on 1 I know necro can win in some situations until the cc becomes too prevalent soon as you break up into 2v2 or 3v3 and especially 5v5 its (target appears) GET THE NECRO!!!! bam cc constant I have taken every stun breaker we have and been instantly re cc’d the second I use it effectively making me useless. now I will admit this doesn’t happen every fight, but the moment it is an obviously experienced group/guild that’s it .. I may as well just sit at home point and try to fight people solo because that’s all I can do.

decided to add this final bit. there are other classes that don’t have good access to stability but they do have a way of getting out of the fight and resetting it to a point they can handle. necro is not designed like this it CANT get away necro is designed to fight to the death and for this to be possible it needs a way to do that (using elites is not a reason as stability to a signet doesn’t alter them in any way and you don’t even get to keep the boons if you leave it… not to mention our actual health pool is vulnerable during these)

Ozzy Toxin, all I get from all of that is that you must be a very poor sPvP player compared to myself. I do not have most of those troubles. How many of those professions have you leveled to 80 or played hours of sPvP with? I know once I leveled all 8 professions, my perspective on them individually changed drastically.

The one that has me really scratching my head, is the turret engineer. Turrets are 100% immobile. Why, for the sake of all that is sane, are you going into melee range of a pile of turrets?

What build are you using, and how are you playing it? What role are you fulfilling on your team with it?

alamore.1974:

lol get better.

You cannot put this anywhere in a post and expect to maintain a serious discussion on the matter. This exact comment could be used right back at anyone using their blinds, teleports (don’t lie, we all know necros have em), dodges, stun breaks, and massive health pool access, in such a poor way, that they demand stability to win fights. No one is suggesting that of coarse, but if you continue with the “lol get better.” jibs and some might start.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Ozzy Toxin, all I get from all of that is that you must be a very poor sPvP player compared to myself. I do not have most of those troubles. How many of those professions have you leveled to 80 or played hours of sPvP with? I know once I leveled all 8 professions, my perspective on them individually changed drastically.

The one that has me really scratching my head, is the turret engineer. Turrets are 100% immobile. Why, for the sake of all that is sane, are you going into melee range of a pile of turrets?

What build are you using, and how are you playing it? What role are you fulfilling on your team with it?

alamore.1974:

lol get better.

You cannot put this anywhere in a post and expect to maintain a serious discussion on the matter. This exact comment could be used right back at anyone using their blinds, teleports (don’t lie, we all know necros have em), dodges, stun breaks, and massive health pool access, in such a poor way, that they demand stability to win fights. No one is suggesting that of coarse, but if you continue with the “lol get better.” jibs and some might start.

Lich form is one.of the.easiest. skills to avade/avoid, as as a rouge with stealth and teleports there.is.absolutely no reason to.die from it unless all your skills are.on cool downs and he suprised you. Not to mention we lose.all utilities for.just raw damage. So yes lol get better if you get liched.
We have 2 teleport wurm and spectral, and i hardly count the latter cause its so.predictable, and easy to.counter
When i cant kill a class or build or if it feals op guess what i do. I go play that class/builds for.hours until i get it down so u can fight back, there is.no counter to cc for.necros, yes we have blinds, go spec for blinds and watch how easily you die,
Right know SoL is.not.worth taking over any skill, giving it a couple secs stab would.not make it op and.give necros a reason to chose it.
A couple secs of stab will not make.necros op any one who thinks so. Has.never.played the class. Play necro for a month and you will see why we need it.

As for the turret engis, in spvp they are so effective becasue the hold points, spvp is.about taking points and holding them if you always stay off because theres a engi there your team will lose every time.
Thats the same reason that my power well necro build works so well, im on the.pount you want to take and you dont want to lose

Why do you think stab on SoL would be op?? I dont see any reason why it would

dancingmonkey.4902:

Ozzy Toxin, all I get from all of that is that you must be a very poor sPvP player compared to myself. I do not have most of those troubles. How many of those professions have you leveled to 80 or played hours of sPvP with? I know once I leveled all 8 professions, my perspective on them individually changed drastically.

The one that has me really scratching my head, is the turret engineer. Turrets are 100% immobile. Why, for the sake of all that is sane, are you going into melee range of a pile of turrets?

What build are you using, and how are you playing it? What role are you fulfilling on your team with it?

alamore.1974:

lol get better.

You cannot put this anywhere in a post and expect to maintain a serious discussion on the matter. This exact comment could be used right back at anyone using their blinds, teleports (don’t lie, we all know necros have em), dodges, stun breaks, and massive health pool access, in such a poor way, that they demand stability to win fights. No one is suggesting that of coarse, but if you continue with the “lol get better.” jibs and some might start.

Lich form is one.of the.easiest. skills to avade/avoid, as as a rouge with stealth and teleports there.is.absolutely no reason to.die from it unless all your skills are.on cool downs and he suprised you. Not to mention we lose.all utilities for.just raw damage. So yes lol get better if you get liched.
We have 2 teleport wurm and spectral, and i hardly count the latter cause its so.predictable, and easy to.counter
When i cant kill a class or build or if it feals op guess what i do. I go play that class/builds for.hours until i get it down so u can fight back, there is.no counter to cc for.necros, yes we have blinds, go spec for blinds and watch how easily you die,
Right know SoL is.not.worth taking over any skill, giving it a couple secs stab would.not make it op and.give necros a reason to chose it.
A couple secs of stab will not make.necros op any one who thinks so. Has.never.played the class. Play necro for a month and you will see why we need it.

As for the turret engis, in spvp they are so effective becasue the hold points, spvp is.about taking points and holding them if you always stay off because theres a engi there your team will lose every time.
Thats the same reason that my power well necro build works so well, im on the.pount you want to take and you dont want to lose

Why do you think stab on SoL would be op?? I dont see any reason why it would

I’d rather see stability be removed entirely and replaced with dimishing returns, to be honest. It’s pretty much necessary to bring a pocket guardian if you’re going to be doing any WvWvWing these days. The boon is plain overpowered and if you don’t have decent access to it crowd control becomes the issue. Scrap it and look to better balanced MMOs for the answer. There’s no shame in copying what actually works.

TLDR; stability sucks as a mechanic.

girien.1209:

Because the ONLY weakness in necro is CCing him. High HP, DS, insane (and totally OP) damage, I Win button (lich form), etc.

And I say that some warrior says to me (thief) “if you want stability, take dagger storm and cancel it…”. Do the same with plage/liche form….

If you cancel plague/lich form you lose all the stability.

And really reading some coments here it seems like people think that DS is a godmode offensive/defensive/attrition mechanic while its not even close to any of that. Try playing some few hours and you`ll see.

DS doesnt give us any proper way to keep ourselves in attrition(which is our class philosophy) neither does cripple or chill.

We should have a reliable way to stands our own ground againts the CC rain at least for a few seconds, i cant see how giving SoL like 5s of stability could be that overpowered, it`ll just give a reason to use a skill currently useless (at least on pvp ).

alamore.1974:

I nuch prefer active gameplay over.passive anyday, but sadly necros have neither and for.uss to get stability we have to take foot in the grave,forcing us to trait towards it which is what you said you dont like being forced.to take traits.
And ya 8s is a bit to high thinking about it, but 5s is another story

You are right about the active access and that is why I’m not against adding Stability in general. But 8s with 40s cooldown (untraited) or 5s with 30s cooldown has a quite high uptime just through picking the utility. I’m aware that the numbers were derived from other classes but this takes their values out of the context. When introducing something new to a class other classes might be a benchmark but ultimatively you have to look at the class itself and not at other professions.

As I said earlier, I’m not against Stability in general. But a 15-25% uptime without any restrictions feels over the top. Because most situations in which a Necromancer is not massively outnumbered a high Stability uptime would be way too powerful because it covers the classes weakness a bit too well. Unless you run a lot of boon removal you would not have any chance to bring down the Necro.

Since Necromancers are designed not to be very mobile it is a bit difficult do think of active and skillful solutions against CC because it cancels out many possiblities (e.g. teleports). But I’d rather see improvements which are more in line with an attrition class instead of turning them into bulldozers with Stability. If you are looking for something (re)active against CC, what about a trait similar to Rousing Resilience (Warriors)? For example, cause pbae Weakness or Daze when successfully using a Stunbreaker? Such a trait can be used in different builds and with different utility set ups and plays into the Necromancers nature of corrupting things for his own benefit. Necromancers also lack traits for Signets which could provide effects on activation for indirect CC mitigation by prolonging cooldowns (e.g. Chill). Additionally, I can imagine a trait which grants -x% CC duration while under the effect of Spectral Armor and Spectral Walk which would still enable enemies to interrupt you when not playing thoughtfully. I also think that Necromancers can benefit from traits like Stabilized Armor (Engineers) although it doesn’t necessarily promote skillful gameplay.

There are so many ways you could provide Necromancers with options to counter CC directly or indirectly without making CC useless against them. Adding Stability is just the easiest way out. But from my point of view not the most appropriate nor sensible one.

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

well I have been playing spvp for 3 weeks now 450 games so far, it doesn’t matter what build I use it always ends up the same hammer warrior almost complete shutdown if I evade some attacks it still ends up in an eventual shutdown due to low cooldowns and his immunities -.-…….. or friends come because it has taken so long

[…your experience against the other classes…]

So basically you are having issues with Hammer Warriors while other classes are quite all right to fight against. Outside of Hammer Warriors and maybe Engineers, you don’t really describe anything which could be solved with Stability. Elementalists don’t have excessive CC options. Mesmers do have some but most have short durations. Rangers mainly use Cripple and Immobilizes which makes Stability less effective. Thieves are good at spamming CC but they won’t do it often because it leaves them too vulnerable. Guardians lack CC in general.

From my experience, you don’t need a lot of Stability against most classes. It is very helpful against Engineers and it is most certainly the only reasonable way to counter Hammer Warriors. However, this is more due to the balance issues related to CC (more specifically: lack of diminishing returns when spamming CC). It is not related to Necromancers not having enough access to Stability.

On a different note: No class survives being ganked or outnumbered unless they can stealth or rush away. Necromancers are just easier to catch than, for example, Mesmers or Thieves. But Guardians got the same fate. It is annoying to be focussed but Stability would not do you any good in this situation. Just avoid those fights if you can. They are pointless.

Xaylin i do agree with sone points but like a siad.necros.are.ment to.sit there and take it. Myabe 5s is to much maybe it just needs to be 3s. Idk im no expert all i know is stability fits better then active dodges and i honestly dont want to see any more teleports added to necros that leave stability or inv. Your only other option would be some sort of armor that absorbs damage.

Stab to me makes sense on the SoL because its a speed boost, you loose the speed to become rooted for a couple secs

Necros also dont have much stunn breakers

alamore.1974:

Xaylin i do agree with sone points but like a siad.necros.are.ment to.sit there and take it.

No they are not. Nothing about any profession in this game promotes standing there and taking it. If you are playing in that fashion or with that in mind, you do not need more stability. You need more skill. I will quote your previous post on this one, “lol get better.”

alamore.1974:

Myabe 5s is to much maybe it just needs to be 3s.

Perfect. Foot in the Grave is 3s stability. So you clearly agree all is well, because the profession has exactly what you want available to it already.

alamore.1974:

Idk im no expert all i know is stability fits better then active dodges and i honestly dont want to see any more teleports added to necros that leave stability or inv.

You don’t want more teleports? Then why do you swear up in down in previous post, that other professions having teleports, justifies your main profession for stability? By your own argument, the fact that you have them is in itself a reason you do nto need stability.

alamore.1974:

Your only other option would be some sort of armor that absorbs damage.

Ahh, you mean, if they did something like put in a trait that gave protection with wells? I agree, that would be brilliant. They should try that some time.

alamore.1974:

Stab to me makes sense on the SoL because its a speed boost, you loose the speed to become rooted for a couple secs

Are you suggesting trading movement for mobilize, in order to gain a few seconds of stability?

alamore.1974:

Necros also dont have much stunn breakers

They have as many as any other profession. This is what was being refereed to earlier. Clearly you do not want to have an honest discussion, nor will you even be honest with yourself. You hit this wall about stability, and no rational or logic will change your demand for it, even if you make arguments that counter your own interest on the topic

@coglin
Your right necros have.just as much stunn breaks as the.other classes. Cept all those other classes have access to mobility, high boon uptime, stability, stealth.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break

Necros have no invincibles, no movment skills, week boon access, what do we have.oh ya DS and sit there and face tank

Foot in the grave is a grandmaster trait, so if you are.going to play a DS build you will want to take it but any other build going that far into a trait line for it will hinder you so much
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foot_in_the_Grave

No i dont really want.more teleports on necros, it does.not fit them at all. So yes other classes have more stability access then necros, and the ones that have the same as them have.greater access to movment, stealth, clones, cc, which we do not.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

I use wells along with trait that grants them protection, do you know how easy it is to counter wells, stupidly easy.

On SoL you get 25% speed passive im saying activatingbit losing the speed but gaining the ability to hold you ground. Losing speed for a stand you ground.

So you argument. For us not having stability is what exactly.

Xaylin.1860:

alamore.1974:

I nuch prefer active gameplay over.passive anyday, but sadly necros have neither and for.uss to get stability we have to take foot in the grave,forcing us to trait towards it which is what you said you dont like being forced.to take traits.
And ya 8s is a bit to high thinking about it, but 5s is another story

You are right about the active access and that is why I’m not against adding Stability in general. But 8s with 40s cooldown (untraited) or 5s with 30s cooldown has a quite high uptime just through picking the utility. I’m aware that the numbers were derived from other classes but this takes their values out of the context. When introducing something new to a class other classes might be a benchmark but ultimatively you have to look at the class itself and not at other professions.

As I said earlier, I’m not against Stability in general. But a 15-25% uptime without any restrictions feels over the top. Because most situations in which a Necromancer is not massively outnumbered a high Stability uptime would be way too powerful because it covers the classes weakness a bit too well. Unless you run a lot of boon removal you would not have any chance to bring down the Necro.

Since Necromancers are designed not to be very mobile it is a bit difficult do think of active and skillful solutions against CC because it cancels out many possiblities (e.g. teleports). But I’d rather see improvements which are more in line with an attrition class instead of turning them into bulldozers with Stability. If you are looking for something (re)active against CC, what about a trait similar to Rousing Resilience (Warriors)? For example, cause pbae Weakness or Daze when successfully using a Stunbreaker? Such a trait can be used in different builds and with different utility set ups and plays into the Necromancers nature of corrupting things for his own benefit. Necromancers also lack traits for Signets which could provide effects on activation for indirect CC mitigation by prolonging cooldowns (e.g. Chill). Additionally, I can imagine a trait which grants -x% CC duration while under the effect of Spectral Armor and Spectral Walk which would still enable enemies to interrupt you when not playing thoughtfully. I also think that Necromancers can benefit from traits like Stabilized Armor (Engineers) although it doesn’t necessarily promote skillful gameplay.

There are so many ways you could provide Necromancers with options to counter CC directly or indirectly without making CC useless against them. Adding Stability is just the easiest way out. But from my point of view not the most appropriate nor sensible one.

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

well I have been playing spvp for 3 weeks now 450 games so far, it doesn’t matter what build I use it always ends up the same hammer warrior almost complete shutdown if I evade some attacks it still ends up in an eventual shutdown due to low cooldowns and his immunities -.-…….. or friends come because it has taken so long

[…your experience against the other classes…]

So basically you are having issues with Hammer Warriors while other classes are quite all right to fight against. Outside of Hammer Warriors and maybe Engineers, you don’t really describe anything which could be solved with Stability. Elementalists don’t have excessive CC options. Mesmers do have some but most have short durations. Rangers mainly use Cripple and Immobilizes which makes Stability less effective. Thieves are good at spamming CC but they won’t do it often because it leaves them too vulnerable. Guardians lack CC in general.

From my experience, you don’t need a lot of Stability against most classes. It is very helpful against Engineers and it is most certainly the only reasonable way to counter Hammer Warriors. However, this is more due to the balance issues related to CC (more specifically: lack of diminishing returns when spamming CC). It is not related to Necromancers not having enough access to Stability.

On a different note: No class survives being ganked or outnumbered unless they can stealth or rush away. Necromancers are just easier to catch than, for example, Mesmers or Thieves. But Guardians got the same fate. It is annoying to be focussed but Stability would not do you any good in this situation. Just avoid those fights if you can. They are pointless.

my problem is not with individuals.. its when you add group play to the equation no other class must have a personal guardian with them the entire time hindering the performance of your team.

the duration of the stability needs to be somewhat decent or what is the point? you block one attack and that’s it in all honesty I would rather knockbacks and teleports over stability but that is never going to happen so in order for necro to actually be competitive in a team environment it needs something to do that,

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

my problem is not with individuals.. its when you add group play to the equation no other class must have a personal guardian with them the entire time hindering the performance of your team.

the duration of the stability needs to be somewhat decent or what is the point? you block one attack and that’s it in all honesty I would rather knockbacks and teleports over stability but that is never going to happen so in order for necro to actually be competitive in a team environment it needs something to do that,

Are you talking about group play or about being ganked? There is a huge difference. In the latter, as said earlier, Stability won’t save you. If you are talking about the first I simply don’t get why some people reject to rely on group members at least to a certain extent. This might sometimes be troublesome in sPvP but should not be an issue in tPvP.

Regardless, I haven’t been talking about long duration Stability but argued that a too extensive uptime on Necromancers could cause balance issues. This refers to suggestions made in this thread which could result in 15-25% uptime or even more. I can see that a long duration Stability can be beneficial in certain situations. But it has to be backed up by a cooldown which limits the access in a way which is reasonable for the respective profession. I do think that a 15-25% uptime for Necromancers would be too high. I feel the same way about Warriors. And again: I don’t believe that Stability is the best choice to improve Necromancers.

15-25% uptime doesn’t seem to be a problem when put on other classes that have invulnerability for just as long and that doesn’t lock them out of their utilities ,weapons, heals, cc

they are not going to give necro anything that can be used while being cc chained so stability that is not tied to an unreliable source is a must or a necro will forever be forced to stand outside points while they let the enemy cap them and hope they do enough damage in the meantime to survive the inevitable cc followed by damage spike after that’s if they are not a ranged class making it completely pointless to the game mode

Just curious. If organized teams specifically target Necros with chain CC with damage spikes, and you give Necros a one time stability on a signet, what’s the counter for Necros if the rotation switches to….

CC Necro
Necro pops stability
Strip/Steal Necros stability
Chain CC Necro
Damage Spike Necro
Stomp Necro

I wouldn’t mind, boon strips are usually on a decent cooldown and its a choice between the necro guardian or ele to use that boonstrip on. either way it will give you a chance

the way it is now its just chuck random cc on necro let thief backstab to death or steal fear and backstab to death along with it lol -.-

Just for clarification… are there two Ozzys around or is it one person?
I’m a bit confused right now.

ozzy.8059:

15-25% uptime doesn’t seem to be a problem when put on other classes that have invulnerability for just as long and that doesn’t lock them out of their utilities ,weapons, heals, cc

As I said earlier, I am aware that the numbers were derived from other professions. However, that is no way of estimating if it is justifiable on a Necromancer. Or Mesmer. Or Engineer. It is like comparing IP with prepatch Dhuumfire. You just can’t do it.

I think that the 15-25% uptime is all right on Guardians. The main reasons being that Guardians have to make substantial trade offs when playing offensively or defensively. A DPS Guardian will lack survivability (low health pool, no/few Meditations for heals, AH is less powerful solo). A supportive Guardian usually lacks DPS. Even if the Guardian has a high uptime there are reasonable ways to counter him.

I think that this is a bit different when looking at Warriors. Their defensive utilities are a bit too much. Mainly because some of the more powerful defensive utilities are stat independent they gain great survivability while maintaining sufficient damage. This becomes worse when paired with certain traits (e.g. CI), heals (HS) and weapons (mainly Hammer and Longbow in PvP). Of course, this is just my opinion. But from my point of view it is too strong.

I think the same way about Necromancers because CC is one of their main weaknesses. Necromancers could become overwhelming considering their other capabilities and there would be no way left to shut them down.

ozzy.8059:

I wouldn’t mind, boon strips are usually on a decent cooldown and its a choice between the necro guardian or ele to use that boonstrip on. either way it will give you a chance

You would have had the same outcome if you had a Guardian providing you with Stability if you’re actually concerend about group situations. Why is it so bad to rely on your team mates? And again, if being focussed, Stability won’t save you. Even if you brought your own.

Regarding boon removal, you will see more people running something to strip boons because of the recent rune changes. But not every class will be able to do so. Additionally, some skills, sigils and traits have a weird way of prioritizing boons so Stability might not be stripped. If you really want boon removal to be a reasonable counter, 8s Stability on a 60s cooldown would be more sensible than the suggestions made so far. Especially when considering that nobody can reliably predict the outcome of such an addition.

And still, I’m not a big fan of more Stability on Necromancers or in GW2 in general.

ozzy.8059:

they are not going to give necro anything that can be used while being cc chained so stability that is not tied to an unreliable source is a must or a necro will forever be forced to stand outside points while they let the enemy cap them and hope they do enough damage in the meantime to survive the inevitable cc followed by damage spike after that’s if they are not a ranged class making it completely pointless to the game mode

Phew. I think someone stripped your punctuation marks.

It is getting a bit fatiguing but again: Everyone dies when chain CCed and being spiked. Despites, chain CC needs to be fixed across the whole game and not only for Necromancers. And even if you had the Stability, you’d still be spiked. You’re not being spiked because of your lacking access to Stability. Necromancers get spiked because of their capabilities to cover whole cap points with debuffs and conditions.

Honestly, the only situation I could understand Necromancers wanting their own source of Stability would be in solo or roaming situations. Not in a group scenario.

Xaylin.1860:

And even if you had the Stability, you’d still be spiked. You’re not being spiked because of your lacking access to Stability. Necromancers get spiked because of their capabilities to cover whole cap points with debuffs and conditions.

Necros would get spiked regardless of stability, but not for the reason you state. They get spiked because they utterly lack the active defenses to do anything about it, making it an easy kill and a 4v5 until the necro respawns and hauls his slow butt back. The fact that necros are dangerous if ignored is very minor in comparison (as most people are rather dangerous if ignored).

That is somewhat debatable since you can argue both ways. They are targeted because they are a threat. If they weren’t it would not happen. I agree that they go up in priority because they are easy to chase down but that most cetainly isn’t the sole reason to target them in the first place.

However, that is not what I was referring to. My point was that Stability won’t help them when being targeted. More ways to apply Chill, Weakness or Dazes would be a lot more sufficient.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Xaylin.1860:

And even if you had the Stability, you’d still be spiked. You’re not being spiked because of your lacking access to Stability. Necromancers get spiked because of their capabilities to cover whole cap points with debuffs and conditions.

Necros would get spiked regardless of stability, but not for the reason you state. They get spiked because they utterly lack the active defenses to do anything about it, making it an easy kill and a 4v5 until the necro respawns and hauls his slow butt back. The fact that necros are dangerous if ignored is very minor in comparison (as most people are rather dangerous if ignored).

No, no that is never said. I have never once heard in mumble or TS, “lets get the necro guys. Because he cannot defend himself”…..Mostly because everyone know that is not true. I pi up on JQ and command a lot. I have spent the majority of my time pinned up on my D/D power well necro or my mine/elixir infused bomb engineer. You sem to have no scope for why the rest of the game would react as they do. I know we say slap the necros, because generally all of ours run with boon stripping corrupting wells, and unblock able marks. Just like our engineers lay out just as many water fields as our eles. 5 boons stripped with mines.

Trust me, is you think enemies come at you because they think your any easy kill, then it is your misconceptions based an your own insecurities in your play or something, because it sure isn’t for the reason your claiming. They corrupt everything, and spread conditions to easy.

Actually it is a pretty standard tactic to lock down the necro so he cant get lifeforce and becomes a complete dead weight right from the beginning. Even in my limited pvp experience I know about that. x)

Swamurabi.7890:

Just curious. If organized teams specifically target Necros with chain CC with damage spikes, and you give Necros a one time stability on a signet, what’s the counter for Necros if the rotation switches to….

CC Necro
Necro pops stability
Strip/Steal Necros stability
Chain CC Necro
Damage Spike Necro
Stomp Necro

If a organized team focused one one of any class they would.be shut down.
And a one time stab can make all the difference in a team fight. Right now all it takes is one cc class to shut a necro down making then useless in a team fight.

Ima be verry busy for a while so I will try respond to everything when I can.