Guild Wars 2

Dan.2940:

Dedlaw.9130:

Elshagan.6342:

On the other hand you ask for common courtesy in PvP? PvP is PvP, you go in n you might die. Simple as that.

Yes, common courtesy. As I said, just because they have the “Invader” name tag does not mean you have to be a kitten to them. About 2 weeks ago about 20 BG and SoR had an unofficial truce in OS as both sides helped friends and guildies through while fighting off the JQ campers at the top. JQ ended up camping the entrance so we had to stealth the last few stragglers past them, then left them again to their camping.

20min of not being under obligation to kill anything red and everyone got what they wanted.

Do you expect everyone to share the same thinking? In a PvP designed Jump puzzle, some may just go for the loot and achievements and avoid combat, but some find enjoyment in killing others. You go into the map fully knowing that everyone is hostile, don’t expect common courtesy when some enemies only see you as a loot bag.

Yo man, this is just a game. I imagine people PvP for fun, but that doesn’t mean they have to be disrespectful of other players.

Just because we cannot expect common courtesy, doesn’t mean that it’s right for people to not express it. That is just like in the real world, you can’t expect people to be decent human beings, but it doesn’t mean it’s right for people to be jerks.

Jemmi.6058:

Dan.2940:

Dedlaw.9130:

Elshagan.6342:

On the other hand you ask for common courtesy in PvP? PvP is PvP, you go in n you might die. Simple as that.

Yes, common courtesy. As I said, just because they have the “Invader” name tag does not mean you have to be a kitten to them. About 2 weeks ago about 20 BG and SoR had an unofficial truce in OS as both sides helped friends and guildies through while fighting off the JQ campers at the top. JQ ended up camping the entrance so we had to stealth the last few stragglers past them, then left them again to their camping.

20min of not being under obligation to kill anything red and everyone got what they wanted.

Do you expect everyone to share the same thinking? In a PvP designed Jump puzzle, some may just go for the loot and achievements and avoid combat, but some find enjoyment in killing others. You go into the map fully knowing that everyone is hostile, don’t expect common courtesy when some enemies only see you as a loot bag.

Yo man, this is just a game. I imagine people PvP for fun, but that doesn’t mean they have to be disrespectful of other players.

Just because we cannot expect common courtesy, doesn’t mean that it’s right for people to not express it. That is just like in the real world, you can’t expect people to be decent human beings, but it doesn’t mean it’s right for people to be jerks.

I realize that, i don’t camp the JP to kill people, unless they are down to duel or if they attack me first. I don’t APPROVE of it, but it’s never going to change, so people need to learn to adapt and deal with it. You think everyone in the real world is a decent person? Thats far from true.

im gona voodoo the noob who keep putting achievement in this jp. i hope you die a painful death.

ANet, what the hell are you smoking to keep putting it here? There’s a kitten good reason why nobody does Obsidian, and it’s because of griefers, campers, etc. And you’re thinking that getting lower level people that don’t like PvP in such a place is wise? Here at Ebay we’re fighting TC and DB, the TWO servers without a downtime. And you expect any of our players to actually be able to do this JP with them spawn camping it? Are you NUTS?

RyuDragnier.9476:

ANet, what the hell are you smoking to keep putting it here? There’s a kitten good reason why nobody does Obsidian, and it’s because of griefers, campers, etc. And you’re thinking that getting lower level people that don’t like PvP in such a place is wise? Here at Ebay we’re fighting TC and DB, the TWO servers without a downtime. And you expect any of our players to actually be able to do this JP with them spawn camping it? Are you NUTS?

As a TCer, I feel bad for you Ryu. While TC doesn’t generally camp the JP (I’ve yet to really see TC do that) and typically lets people pass, I know that our mutual opponent has no such qualms against doing so.

I just hope not to see Emhry camping it if you guys get in there, because I’ve typically seen the 3rd place server doing that stuff the most.

SynfulChaot.3169:

RyuDragnier.9476:

ANet, what the hell are you smoking to keep putting it here? There’s a kitten good reason why nobody does Obsidian, and it’s because of griefers, campers, etc. And you’re thinking that getting lower level people that don’t like PvP in such a place is wise? Here at Ebay we’re fighting TC and DB, the TWO servers without a downtime. And you expect any of our players to actually be able to do this JP with them spawn camping it? Are you NUTS?

As a TCer, I feel bad for you Ryu. While TC doesn’t generally camp the JP (I’ve yet to really see TC do that) and typically lets people pass, I know that our mutual opponent has no such qualms against doing so.

I just hope not to see Emhry camping it if you guys get in there, because I’ve typically seen the 3rd place server doing that stuff the most.

You guys are the ones spawn camping this time unfortunately. You got 3 jerks at the top of the well purposefully killing anybody who comes near. I think they’re from the guild HAZE.

EDIT: Change that, they’re from EP. It’s times like this where I wish your server could gank your own people to make them stop.

Just use the invisibility fountains, problem solved.

Bovinity.8610:

Just use the invisibility fountains, problem solved.

Not going to work. They’re spamming AoE on the well.

So they’re just standing there. AEing the air. Forever.

Ok.

Bovinity.8610:

So they’re just standing there. AEing the air. Forever.

Ok.

You’d be surprised at what griefers will do.

RyuDragnier.9476:

You guys are the ones spawn camping this time unfortunately. You got 3 jerks at the top of the well purposefully killing anybody who comes near. I think they’re from the guild HAZE.

EDIT: Change that, they’re from EP. It’s times like this where I wish your server could gank your own people to make them stop.

Unfortunately, I have a feeling that is retribution for people from Emhry Bay camping before. EP is typically above such actions.

I’ll hope that they go back to what they were doing before so you can get the ’chiev in peace.

WvW is PvP…it has nothing to do with PvE and it shouldn’t. There aren’t NPC players going around taking keeps or doing the jumping puzzles, it’s PLAYERS doing those things..same reason I believe it’s stupid to require WvW maps for map completion. WvW is PvP, whether you admit that or not. I shouldn’t have to do anything in PvP for PvE achievements…

It was stupid the first time, and to see that they put essentially the same exact thing in this update is both not surprising and very disappointing. Anet has done really well with this game, but ever since they started doing this boring, annoying, grindy, and temporary living story, they’ve been going way downhill. They really need to get things together and find some permanent, WORTHWHILE content added if GW2 is going to outlive upcoming games, such as ES:O…

Luckily everybody stopped attacking, and we finally had people waving. No killing thank goodness. Achievement got, and this is jsut a reminder why I never do this JP.

I think they need to add the Halloween JP on top of SM, once players cap SM, finish the Halloween JP, where the players will meet Lupicus.
Once Lupicus is defeated, the entrance to Obsidian JP should open up, and finally once players get to the top of the puzzle, they can get to the kite.

As it stands now, Obsidian JP alone is super easy, please provide more challenging content.

ZilentNight.5089:

I think they need to add the Halloween JP on top of SM, once players cap SM, finish the Halloween JP, where the players will meet Lupicus.
Once Lupicus is defeated, the entrance to Obsidian JP should open up, and finally once players get to the top of the puzzle, they can get to the kite.

As it stands now, Obsidian JP alone is super easy, please provide more challenging content.

No no no. You should fight lupicus while ascending the Mad Kings Clock Tower.

Jemmi.6058:

ZilentNight.5089:

I think they need to add the Halloween JP on top of SM, once players cap SM, finish the Halloween JP, where the players will meet Lupicus.
Once Lupicus is defeated, the entrance to Obsidian JP should open up, and finally once players get to the top of the puzzle, they can get to the kite.

As it stands now, Obsidian JP alone is super easy, please provide more challenging content.

No no no. You should fight lupicus while ascending the Mad Kings Clock Tower.

while being crippled 100% of the time!

I apologize to DB and EB players attempting the JP right now. We can’t stop the couple of trolls that won’t stop harassing you…

Bovinity.8610:

Just use the invisibility fountains, problem solved.

Just put some marks and traps to hit people mid-jumps. Invisibility fountains solved.

No NPCs taking stuff…someone obviously never watched the dredge solo a camp or heard of mister commander siegerazer

SynfulChaot.3169:

I apologize to DB and EB players attempting the JP right now. We can’t stop the couple of trolls that won’t stop harassing you…

All good. Same thing happened last time at AR. SoS and kittenreed to work together and sometimes u would get EBay pull a gank fest. Cant stop trolls. theyre on every server. Thx for the msg though.

Let me make an analogy, so it is clearer. Lets say there was a meta achievement that required you to do six semi difficult things in wvw, and the 7 th was at the end of arah path 4. Doesn’t it seem like that last one should not be included? Not because it would be some impossible, onerous task, but because it is out iof place. For the people working towards the meta achievement, it world be a chore, not a challenge. Most people going for that meta would be wvw players, so why not cater to wvw players? Why “force them” into pve? They can do it, but is there a good reason to?

This is the point we are trying to make. Not that it’s too challenging, per say, but that it is a chore for pve players. There is a difference there. I’m all for more wvw achievements – I believe they are sorely lacking. But this way of doing it – throwing a random wvw achievement in – is not the way to go about it.

And again, I hear people saying to just suck it up and deal with, it’s a few points. Again I ask, what is so wrong with having a discussion when you encounter something that many people have found to be frustrating? I’m not demanding that it change, I’m trying to explain why I believe it could be done better, in a way that gives more opportunities for pvp and pve players.

rodadams.5963:

and are not sitting there mocking me on the LS tab

This looks like a personal problem…

i cant even enter Obsidian Sanctum on my server, because we are currently up against some over powered servers -.-

this is what i mean with what i said earlier:

we are the green ones…

SynfulChaot.3169:

I apologize to DB and EB players attempting the JP right now. We can’t stop the couple of trolls that won’t stop harassing you…

Actually, the only violent types seem to be right at the beginning of the puzzle. I just ran past them and had no troubles from anyone else the rest of the time.

Unfortunately, there is a group of five DB players camping (TSL), and setting up traps to make it impossible for anyone to do the puzzle proper.

negerleif.2106:

this is what i mean with what i said earlier:

we are the green ones…

Sorry to be totally random for for some reason you censoring out the server names irritated me. You realise anyone can just go to MoS match-up site and see exactly what tier/server you are from those scores. :/

normally I’m not so bad with 1 or 2 achievements that require some level of pvp but lets face it. OS is the breeding down of gankers because its the 1 place they know non-pvpers will have to go sooner or later and no one can resist a free kill.

If it hasn’t been mentioned before, I’ll point out that most of the content for this was likely locked in before Dragon Bash launched, so before they had any feedback about it. I doubt they could have changed this one in time and done proper testing and all that. That said, I’m not a huge fan of them tying event achievements into WvW either, and hoe they leave it out of future design decisions.

Ohoni.6057:

If it hasn’t been mentioned before, I’ll point out that most of the content for this was likely locked in before Dragon Bash launched, so before they had any feedback about it. I doubt they could have changed this one in time and done proper testing and all that. That said, I’m not a huge fan of them tying event achievements into WvW either, and hoe they leave it out of future design decisions.

That’s my guess as well.

I mean, I understand the intention of getting people in WvW. Unfortunately it draws the exact wrong kind of WvW player for getting anyone to ever want to return. These caches/kites are only making WvW less appealing.

Dan.2940:

Dedlaw.9130:

Elshagan.6342:

On the other hand you ask for common courtesy in PvP? PvP is PvP, you go in n you might die. Simple as that.

Yes, common courtesy. As I said, just because they have the “Invader” name tag does not mean you have to be a kitten to them. About 2 weeks ago about 20 BG and SoR had an unofficial truce in OS as both sides helped friends and guildies through while fighting off the JQ campers at the top. JQ ended up camping the entrance so we had to stealth the last few stragglers past them, then left them again to their camping.

20min of not being under obligation to kill anything red and everyone got what they wanted.

Do you expect everyone to share the same thinking? In a PvP designed Jump puzzle, some may just go for the loot and achievements and avoid combat, but some find enjoyment in killing others. You go into the map fully knowing that everyone is hostile, don’t expect common courtesy when some enemies only see you as a loot bag.

No, I don’t expect everyone to think like that. It was the first time since launch that I saw that kind of co-operation.

So I’m not expecting everyone to sit around and hold hands singing kumbaya. I’m just hoping players realize they don’t need to be kittens towards other players just wanting to get the achievement. Or maybe I’m just naive for thinking everyone has a bit of decency in them

Dedlaw.9130:

No, I don’t expect everyone to think like that. It was the first time since launch that I saw that kind of co-operation.

So I’m not expecting everyone to sit around and hold hands singing kumbaya. I’m just hoping players realize they don’t need to be kittens towards other players just wanting to get the achievement. Or maybe I’m just naive for thinking everyone has a bit of decency in them

Yea. You’re a bit naive. Some just don’t. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try anyways, right? Enough of the rest of us do. After about an hour of a few bad WvWers griefing, they got tired and left. Then I saw nearly two hours of a tense peace between TC, DB, and EB. It was glorious.

Yes. It’s back. There are also fractals if I have seen it correctly. So don’t whine. I’m sure there are also other people that don’t like to do fractals but they put something for everyeone in the game. And you don’t need all the stuff to get Meta.

Get away from the “I need to do all achievements” and have fun in the game instead of seeing it as work “I need to work to do all the stuff”(vs. “I have fun and to only the stuff I want to do”).

If you can’t do this then it is not ArenaNets problem. They can’t remove all the achievements a few people don’t like.

Just use the Invisibility that is part of the jumping puzzle. It’s there for a reason.

Pessimissed.2580:

Just use the Invisibility that is part of the jumping puzzle. It’s there for a reason.

I’ve been trying for the kite on and off since the start of the event, with no luck. Bunch of griefers have been camping above and / or in the cage room since the beginning. There doesn’t seem to be a way to maintain the fountain’s stealth through the dark cage room, since you can’t carry the torch while stealthed.

It is incredibly frustrating to think that I might end up with a missing achievement AND 6/7 on the “get all kites” achievement, not because of any fault on my end, but because a bunch of people go out of their way to spread utter misery.

Aside from Obsidian Sanctum, however, this has been one of the best living story content I’ve experienced thus far. Sadly, what could have been a perfect experience is tarnished by—yet again—intermixed PvE and PvP content. I really hope the devs learn and never tie a PvE achievement with a PvP area / jumping puzzle / any PvP content ever again.

Yea. You’re a bit naive. Some just don’t. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try anyways, right? Enough of the rest of us do. After about an hour of a few bad WvWers griefing, they got tired and left. Then I saw nearly two hours of a tense peace between TC, DB, and EB. It was glorious.

I wish that people could PK people on their own teams, that way if people on your team are being jerks in the JP, and you’re trying to maintain an honorable server, you could clear them out.

Ohoni.6057:

I wish that people could PK people on their own teams, that way if people on your team are being jerks in the JP, and you’re trying to maintain an honorable server, you could clear them out.

No, you do not wish that. Because the people you call “jerks” would have probably team killed you 10 times already.

I wish you could tag bad allies as ‘dishonorable’. And if they are tagged by enough people they become fair game. After giving that player about a minute of warning so they can choose to fight or leave of their own accord.

Yoke.4671:

negerleif.2106:

this is what i mean with what i said earlier:

we are the green ones…

Sorry to be totally random for for some reason you censoring out the server names irritated me. You realise anyone can just go to MoS match-up site and see exactly what tier/server you are from those scores. :/

do you really want to know that badly?

Uhm im sorry but are you saying pve achievements are something pvp based players want to do? It works both ways buddy. Oh, and once again, these achievements are 20 points, im sure they will be forced to do them because they don’t have 1,000 other pve achievements they could do.

Not at all. I posted earlier that they should include ways for both groups to get the rewards. We did actually get the skins, or at least will. Go check your locker tab.

@GSSBlunaspike Sorry but that quote made you sound more like a smart-kitten then an honest replier. WvW might have PvE aspects but the main focus is Player versus Player which is PvP, go google it you might actually understand it afterwards.

I’m going to post on the assumption you are serious, if I am mistaken then I apologize ahead of time. WvW is not focused on Player versus Player. A server can actually win WvW without ever engaging in PvP. You MUST kill NPCs in order to claim in WvW. Killing players is fun, but that doesn’t actually win. Holding towers,camps, or keeps wins. You break down a door, you kill some NPC guards, followed by killing more npcs. Then you claim something. The PvP aspect is incidental. The entire setup around WvW is that it is PvE with player killing allowed. Now if you and another player agree to a duel that is PvP, but again that is not what WvW is about. You could stand outside SM and win duels all day, but that will not win. In fact in WvW it is sometimes better to completely avoid confrontation with the enemy. Instead it is better to slip past them and take PvE objectives in order to win. It is a PvE objective based game mode with incidental player killing.

Just use the Invisibility that is part of the jumping puzzle. It’s there for a reason.

I don’t usually (ever) use this because I go there looking for fights. Does the invisibility provide you with immunity to cc, or aoe? I honestly have no idea. If it does then that sounds like an excellent alternative, they should consider placing one at the start. If it doesn’t then it’s mostly useless as there are choke points where a decent fear will end that.

SynfulChaot.3169:

I apologize to DB and EB players attempting the JP right now. We can’t stop the couple of trolls that won’t stop harassing you…

And that’s the problem with a putting an achievement like this in a location like that. It only takes a few people. And how many people are there on a server?

Let me make an analogy, so it is clearer. Lets say there was a meta achievement that required you to do six semi difficult things in wvw, and the 7 th was at the end of arah path 4. Doesn’t it seem like that last one should not be included? Not because it would be some impossible, onerous task, but because it is out iof place.

You know why this kinda falls flat? Because the overwhelming majority of achievement points already come from PvE as it is. In fact, if you mostly do WvW, you probably have very few achievement points right now because of how ridiculous the few WvW achievements are. (Kill a billion yaks!)

So yeah, it’s really hard to sympathize with the whole, “But we want the achievements to only be PvE!” crowd because just about everything already IS PvE. One single, tiny achievement asks you to step out of your already-achievement-glutted comfort zone one time, and suddenly it’s a life-ruining issue.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Ohoni.6057:

If it hasn’t been mentioned before, I’ll point out that most of the content for this was likely locked in before Dragon Bash launched, so before they had any feedback about it. I doubt they could have changed this one in time and done proper testing and all that. That said, I’m not a huge fan of them tying event achievements into WvW either, and hoe they leave it out of future design decisions.

That’s my guess as well.

I mean, I understand the intention of getting people in WvW. Unfortunately it draws the exact wrong kind of WvW player for getting anyone to ever want to return. These caches/kites are only making WvW less appealing.

While what you say is true, there have been enough threads complaining about wvw being required for map completion for them to have a clue that this would be unacceptable to the same group of people. And while I play wvw a lot and enjoy the pvp there, I don’t like the jp. The only time I even go there is when I KNOW a Mesmer is porting people for the siege chest.

On a different topic, they should add more ways to earn achievement points for people in wvw. I do enough pve to get them because I like both but for people who are strickly wvw, there should be away for them to get more points.

RyuDragnier.9476:

ANet, what the hell are you smoking to keep putting it here? There’s a kitten good reason why nobody does Obsidian, and it’s because of griefers, campers, etc. And you’re thinking that getting lower level people that don’t like PvP in such a place is wise? Here at Ebay we’re fighting TC and DB, the TWO servers without a downtime. And you expect any of our players to actually be able to do this JP with them spawn camping it? Are you NUTS?

Ryu, i was at the JP yesterday too, while they were griefing, we killed them. Learn to live and forget, it is a PvP built jump puzzle after all… I totally understand your frustration, I’ve been in your position too, but i don’t believe you understand how boring the JP would be without people in it, camping or not.

MinorDetail.9204:

What he said, Pvp’ers are forced to PvE when they want something for that particular content. So if you have to take your time to get one achievement which isn’t even needed for the big overall meta achievement, then don’t do it.

The difference is, nobody in PvE actively tries to deny you the content.

I agree nobody is forcing anyone to obtain a particular achievement, but you have to agree that doing something boring is more achievable than being actively denied access to the content. No doubt there are ways around this, but the argument that these issues are the “same” is laughable.

RyuDragnier.9476:

ANet, what the hell are you smoking to keep putting it here? There’s a kitten good reason why nobody does Obsidian, and it’s because of griefers, campers, etc.

Obviously, ANet saw that as a problem. The goal for that map IS a PvP fest. And the lack of participants can only be fixed by giving better rewards inside, which is exactly what ANet did. In a way that you cannot exploit those rewards in anyway and you are not losing much by not doing it. It’s genius really.

Katz.5143:

SynfulChaot.3169:

That’s my guess as well.

I mean, I understand the intention of getting people in WvW. Unfortunately it draws the exact wrong kind of WvW player for getting anyone to ever want to return. These caches/kites are only making WvW less appealing.

While what you say is true, there have been enough threads complaining about wvw being required for map completion for them to have a clue that this would be unacceptable to the same group of people. And while I play wvw a lot and enjoy the pvp there, I don’t like the jp. The only time I even go there is when I KNOW a Mesmer is porting people for the siege chest.

On a different topic, they should add more ways to earn achievement points for people in wvw. I do enough pve to get them because I like both but for people who are strickly wvw, there should be away for them to get more points.

There is a difference between the introduction to WvW that mapping provides and the introduction to WvW that being griefed in Obsidian Sanctum.

I first really saw WvW due to mapping. I still stop by on occasion. If my first experience were to be the grief-fest that some immature players make Obsidian Sanctum? Yeah. I’d not want to go back. Not at all.

Note: I still disagree with WvW map complation needed for world completion, but it is a much lesser evil.

stof.9341:

RyuDragnier.9476:

ANet, what the hell are you smoking to keep putting it here? There’s a kitten good reason why nobody does Obsidian, and it’s because of griefers, campers, etc.

Obviously, ANet saw that as a problem. The goal for that map IS a PvP fest. And the lack of participants can only be fixed by giving better rewards inside, which is exactly what ANet did. In a way that you cannot exploit those rewards in anyway and you are not losing much by not doing it. It’s genius really.

Bringing in more skilled PvP players is the way to do it. Not bringing in PvE players with PvE builds and gear. Players that are basically free kills to the properly built, geared, and experienced PvP/WvW players. Not genius. Short-sighted.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Katz.5143:

SynfulChaot.3169:

That’s my guess as well.

I mean, I understand the intention of getting people in WvW. Unfortunately it draws the exact wrong kind of WvW player for getting anyone to ever want to return. These caches/kites are only making WvW less appealing.

While what you say is true, there have been enough threads complaining about wvw being required for map completion for them to have a clue that this would be unacceptable to the same group of people. And while I play wvw a lot and enjoy the pvp there, I don’t like the jp. The only time I even go there is when I KNOW a Mesmer is porting people for the siege chest.

On a different topic, they should add more ways to earn achievement points for people in wvw. I do enough pve to get them because I like both but for people who are strickly wvw, there should be away for them to get more points.

There is a difference between the introduction to WvW that mapping provides and the introduction to WvW that being griefed in Obsidian Sanctum.

I first really saw WvW due to mapping. I still stop by on occasion. If my first experience were to be the grief-fest that some immature players make Obsidian Sanctum? Yeah. I’d not want to go back. Not at all.

Note: I still disagree with WvW map complation needed for world completion, but it is a much lesser evil.

stof.9341:

RyuDragnier.9476:

ANet, what the hell are you smoking to keep putting it here? There’s a kitten good reason why nobody does Obsidian, and it’s because of griefers, campers, etc.

Obviously, ANet saw that as a problem. The goal for that map IS a PvP fest. And the lack of participants can only be fixed by giving better rewards inside, which is exactly what ANet did. In a way that you cannot exploit those rewards in anyway and you are not losing much by not doing it. It’s genius really.

Bringing in more skilled PvP players is the way to do it. Not bringing in PvE players with PvE builds and gear. Players that are basically free kills to the properly built, geared, and experienced PvP/WvW players. Not genius. Short-sighted.

These caches/kites are bringing life back to the JP, whether its with a zerg or not. Too many people believe that in a PvP jump puzzle, people shouldn’t attack you or try to give you a challenge because you just want the loot/achievement. Where is the fun in that? You would rather just do your normal daily routine of completing the JP with no challenge? If you think this JP is not designed for PvP, i guess you also believe the traps on the map are just for looks?

Either way, the achievement is worth what? 5 points? The zerg is part of the challenge and if you want the achievement, you’re gonna have to work for it. Arenanet knew fully well that it would draw more players in to grief the JP.

( If you think im all talk, last night we had 2 servers camping the JP with full out zergs, we found a way to sneak past them and kill them all, and let me tell you, it was fun and satisfying.)

I suggest people get it as soon as possible where they are large groups of people going for it. If you wait too long then you’ll be forced to do it solo or in small groups which likely don’t have the skill to overtake campers.

Dan.2940:

( If you think im all talk, last night we had 2 servers camping the JP with full out zergs, we found a way to sneak past them and kill them all, and let me tell you, it was fun and satisfying.)

If they were decent, you would not be able to sneak past them, let alone beat them without vastly superior numbers.

Dan.2940:

These caches/kites are bringing life back to the JP

There’s a reason seasoned WvWers didn’t go there