Guild Wars 2

Noviere.7309:

Calae.1738:

They would of made a lot more money and drained a lot more gold out of the game had they priced it with a fixed amount of gems.

I don’t know about that. They have tried several methods over the last few months — selling the skins directly as well as selling them with the lotto box/keys.

I think they know which is more profitable.

I would note that the weapons they sold directly looked like gingerbread cutouts. Maybe the longbow was something you’d want to keep on a character long-term, but most of the rest was going to just take up space in storage after Winterfest ended.

The fused weapons are nice skins. They’re better than the charr cultural weapons or COF weapons and fit a broader range of character appearances than the destroyer weapons. With the best 1H flaming sword being tied to HoM and the best flaming greatsword costing an insane amount, these are highly desirable. They’d have sold a lot better than the Wintersday stuff.

I just don’t understand why they didn’t do it the same way as the wintersday skins. At least you had the option to outright buy the weapon skins with gems, as well as several other methods.

Adam.4103:

I just don’t understand why they didn’t do it the same way as the wintersday skins. At least you had the option to outright buy the weapon skins with gems, as well as several other methods.

This! Please Anet, let us just buy them and not gamble away out gold and gems.

Adam.4103:

I just don’t understand why they didn’t do it the same way as the wintersday skins. At least you had the option to outright buy the weapon skins with gems, as well as several other methods.

Because they make more money forcing people to gamble. So long as the majority of these people don’t wise up and stop buying into the scam of Black Lion Chests, they’ll continue to use this method to drain money out of you. And who can blame them? It works. If people DID wise up, it wouldn’t work in the long term. But then again I think a lot of their business and development strategy doesn’t work in the long term.

I guess I didn’t receive the mail ordering me to buy some keys, pretty sure I will as I don’t think Anet would force only a portion of their players.

Btw, for everyone that was forced already to buy them, how exactly do they make you do it?

Do they threaten to delete one of your characters? Do they threaten to delete your account? Do they limit you bandwidth and make the game unplayable?

What exactly is the method that those evil doers are using to force you to buy those keys?

I simply cannot believe the “Boo-hoo, this is not achievable from in-game” going around here. You can buy gems with in-game gold. You buy the keys with gems…

I just saw someone with “the emperor” title today. 644g blown on a title.

You may not get it TODAY but if these skins are so amazing that you want them to be your #1 priority, you’ll get them eventually, and it won’t require contributing to the upkeep of the game (via RMT). Come on guys, this thread is in the same dang forum the lords of the universe brag about making 10-30g per hour. That’s gonna add up to quite a few sets of 5 keys over the next few months… If you want them.

Nike.2631:

I simply cannot believe the “Boo-hoo, this is not achievable from in-game” going around here. You can buy gems with in-game gold. You buy the keys with gems…

I just saw someone with “the emperor” title today. 644g blown on a title.

You may not get it TODAY but if these skins are so amazing that you want them to be your #1 priority, you’ll get them eventually, and it won’t require contributing to the upkeep of the game (via RMT). Come on guys, this thread is in the same dang forum the lords of the universe brag about making 10-30g per hour. That’s gonna add up to quite a few sets of 5 keys over the next few months… If you want them.

How long do you think these will remain in the chests? They are going to be a limited to offer for sure just like every other event item.

Ooshi.8607:

I guess I didn’t receive the mail ordering me to buy some keys, pretty sure I will as I don’t think Anet would force only a portion of their players.

Btw, for everyone that was forced already to buy them, how exactly do they make you do it?

Do they threaten to delete one of your characters? Do they threaten to delete your account? Do they limit you bandwidth and make the game unplayable?

What exactly is the method that those evil doers are using to force you to buy those keys?

Force: as in, if you want these items, you are forced to gamble for them. This is obvious what I meant, you know it is, yet you decided to make a stupid post claiming outlandish things that aren’t related to what I said. You know kitten well what I meant.

Nike.2631:

You may not get it TODAY but if these skins are so amazing that you want them to be your #1 priority, you’ll get them eventually, and it won’t require contributing to the upkeep of the game (via RMT). Come on guys, this thread is in the same dang forum the lords of the universe brag about making 10-30g per hour. That’s gonna add up to quite a few sets of 5 keys over the next few months… If you want them.

There is absolutely no guarantee you will get them eventually. This is an RNG based thing, one that if you aren’t dripping in luck, chances are you won’t ever see it. You could spend thousands of gold and/or hundreds of real currency trying and have nothing to show for it in the end.
Myself, I spent the gold I had saved and bought a few gems to try and ended up after 97 chests with no ticket.
Nobody put a gun to my head and made me spend what I did, but I will say that after that many boxes opened, I feel slightly jipped only having 4 hair style kits and a few boosts to show for the number of boxes I opened. But lesson learned, I won’t ever participate in an RNG fiasco like this.

Honestly I would have much rather taken the gold I used for keys, and even bought gems to trade for gold, to support my fellow players by buying the tickets or skins from them on the TP if ANet hadn’t gone and made these account bound instead of BoU like every other event skin set.

Also as someone else said, how long do you think these skins are going to be around? I would bank on it being a month or so, no longer going by all the other event type skins that have been offered in the game.

Myself, I spent the gold I had saved and bought a few gems to try and ended up after 97 chests with no ticket.
Nobody put a gun to my head and made me spend what I did, but I will say that after that many boxes opened, I feel slightly jipped only having 4 hair style kits and a few boosts to show for the number of boxes I opened. But lesson learned, I won’t ever participate in an RNG fiasco like this.

This is exactly the reason why this business model will fail in the long term. I have seen businesses come and go through out my time. The ones that disappeared were the ones that unintentionally chased away their own customers.

Remember how during beta people had concerns about this stuff.

But it was met with reassurances from other players that these were not ‘pay to win’ items and just skins?

Well what the heck happened to that mentality? Why do you guys feel like you are entitled to guaranteed items?

Gem store gambling is a great business decision and I hope Anet continues with it to encourage exclusivity with certain items. The fact that you guys keep buying chests when there is a low chance just shows how much it’s working.

Calae.1738:

Myself, I spent the gold I had saved and bought a few gems to try and ended up after 97 chests with no ticket.
Nobody put a gun to my head and made me spend what I did, but I will say that after that many boxes opened, I feel slightly jipped only having 4 hair style kits and a few boosts to show for the number of boxes I opened. But lesson learned, I won’t ever participate in an RNG fiasco like this.

This is exactly the reason why this business model will fail in the long term. I have seen businesses come and go through out my time. The ones that disappeared were the ones that unintentionally chased away their own customers.

That would make sense if Arenanet’s only product were skins in BL chests…

It’s not.

Vol.5241:

Gem store gambling is a great business decision and I hope Anet continues with it to encourage exclusivity with certain items. The fact that you guys keep buying chests when there is a low chance just shows how much it’s working.

There will come a time when it’s no longer going to work. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Calae.1738:

Vol.5241:

Gem store gambling is a great business decision and I hope Anet continues with it to encourage exclusivity with certain items. The fact that you guys keep buying chests when there is a low chance just shows how much it’s working.

There will come a time when it’s no longer going to work. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Well this is the 3rd time (Lost Shores, Halloween, Frost & Flame)

They did the guaranteed skins for Christmas and look, it’s not here again. I guess they saw the #’s and saw their sales drop.

I think it’s working just fine.

Vol.5241:

Calae.1738:

Vol.5241:

Gem store gambling is a great business decision and I hope Anet continues with it to encourage exclusivity with certain items. The fact that you guys keep buying chests when there is a low chance just shows how much it’s working.

There will come a time when it’s no longer going to work. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Well this is the 3rd time (Lost Shores, Halloween, Frost & Flame)

They did the guaranteed skins for Christmas and look, it’s not here again. I guess they saw the #’s and saw their sales drop.

I think it’s working just fine.

The x-mas skins were also a buncha kitten skins. When was the last time you saw someone running around with a gingerbread sword?

All the “cool” skins get put in the chests, I didnt buy this time b/c I won’t support the model. Can’t stop others though and I do feel bad for the x-mas mini-pet collectors

I’m waiting for the explosive screams of rage when its revealed that completing all achievments related to frost & flame after all 4 parts are released will award a once-per-account molten weapon ticket.

StinVec.3621:

I never stated, nor implied that I did.

Eh.

1. I don’t like the the new sale
2. I assume that there are a significant amount of other people who think like me
3. “Anet is not doing business successfully.”

You have to make that 2. assumption to get to 3, or your logic simply won’t work.

StinVec.3621:

Go ahead and throw insults and call me names, you’ll only get infracted.
Also, do you have a business degree? Do you own your own business? Do your customers for said business continue to come back because they are treated how they want and deserve to be treated, while also keeping said business profitable? There is plenty of profit to be had without giving in to greed. A flawed business model that is only profitable in the short term is still a flawed business model.

No, I don’t have any of that, but I clearly see the pointlessness in stating a company “is not doing business successfully” when you don’t even know what their sales data is. How do you know its flawed? You have no idea. You’re just basing it purely on your personal opinion of the sale. Which is why I call you narrow-minded (Being able to see things only from your own perspective) and ignorant (You have no clue what Anet’s sale data is)

Again, go ahead and dislike the sale. That is well within your right. However, I will point out the silliness in calling their business “flawed” because you personally did not like it.

Nike.2631:

I’m waiting for the explosive screams of rage when its revealed that completing all achievments related to frost & flame after all 4 parts are released will award a once-per-account molten weapon ticket.

This is the very reason I’m not buying any keys and saving what I do get until the end of the event, just in case this happens.

I agree that participating in the gamble is completely a personal choice, but I have to say that seeing items being locked behind a Pay-to-Play Lottery leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If ArenaNet keeps taking this strategy, it probably means that it works for them financially, but I really think the experience could be improved by a lot.

I rather liked the analogy somebody made that it’s like buying sneakers and putting your name in a drawing (though in the US, companies aren’t allowed to force you to buy things to enter a drawing, so it’s not quite accurate) — the problem is that right now, the things that drop the most frequently from the chests are completely worthless, so it’s like buying a shoebox that may or may not have shoes in them for a chance at a car. Perhaps the drop-table on the chests could be tweaked to make them have better value, or the BL special items could be improved to be more helpful (the fact that the mining picks only stack to 25 while the normal ones stack to 100 is a huge strike against them).

Elentari.9156:

I agree that participating in the gamble is completely a personal choice, but I have to say that seeing items being locked behind a Pay-to-Play Lottery leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Are you one of the people with bugged accounts that can’t buy gems with gold? If not its also a play-to-play situation.

I rather liked the analogy somebody made that it’s like buying sneakers and putting your name in a drawing (though in the US, companies aren’t allowed to force you to buy things to enter a drawing, so it’s not quite accurate) — the problem is that right now, the things that drop the most frequently from the chests are completely worthless, so it’s like buying a shoebox that may or may not have shoes in them for a chance at a car. Perhaps the drop-table on the chests could be tweaked to make them have better value, or the BL special items could be improved to be more helpful (the fact that the mining picks only stack to 25 while the normal ones stack to 100 is a huge strike against them).

You have some pretty high standards then for what a key should give – the boosts always have a function. The guild rep items are nice (moreso in small guilds). The bags of siler are erratic but can pay out handsomely. Armor repair canisters and revive orbs are both handy in deep fractal runs…

I had 6 keys laying around from completing WvW borderlands map completion (I seem to always get them there) and decided to use them just to see what all the fuss was about. I didn’t get anything exotic, but I restocked a number of basic box-based supplies. I’ve used probably 40-50 keys over the life of my account. My expectations are well tuned towards the reality of the rewards table.

I’d perhaps like to see second chance recepies like we saw back around Mad King’s Day, but I won’t run around shrieking “shady business practices!” if they don’t. At worst, in a few months it’ll be just like seeing someone with a scythe skin on their staff: mildy unussual and interesting, but hardly the focal point of ongoing game-play.

Sorry, but Arena Net needs to take responsibility for dealing with such shady practices to begin with. Just because it can be done, doesn’t mean it should be done. Selling a good product in the gem store is the right way to do it. This gambling box deal is the wrong way. An angry costumer is still a costumer and things like this is pushing me back away from being a costumer in the first place. After the horror of what happened to Paragon Studios and City of Heroes, maybe my friends are right in staying away from NCsoft titles.

I love the game, really I do, but this whole lock box thing, especially with these event weapons, gives me pause to think otherwise.

shady practices? Gambling is shady?

wat

TheMagickDoll.7594:

…An angry costumer is still a costumer…..

Misdirected anger seems to be all the rage these days.

If a consumer chooses not to accept the reality and consequences of their purchasing decisions, then perhaps they really should not make any in the future.

The misconception, and dillusionion that probability applies to them differently then everyone else isn’t an excuse to defer blame from their own decision making to someone else.

Wanna gamble? Prepare to accept the consequences. Can’t do that? Put the money back in your pocket.

Vol.5241:

Remember how during beta people had concerns about this stuff.

But it was met with reassurances from other players that these were not ‘pay to win’ items and just skins?

Well what the heck happened to that mentality? Why do you guys feel like you are entitled to guaranteed items?

Gem store gambling is a great business decision and I hope Anet continues with it to encourage exclusivity with certain items. The fact that you guys keep buying chests when there is a low chance just shows how much it’s working.

Please stop with the whole white knight act, you act as though ANet can do no wrong. What has entitlement got to do with anything… People spend REAL money and quite often get nothing in return. You actually think it’s a good business practice to be ok with losing angry customers over something that could be easily rectified?

Should really just complain to the ESRB for not listing gambling on the games rating. Seems wrong its missing when a large quantity of items require you to gamble money to obtain them.

Void.4205:

Should really just complain to the ESRB for not listing gambling on the games rating.

Every game with loot tables and drop rates would have to have “gambling” on their ESRB rating then because each time you kill a mob, you’ve gambled your time (which equals “money”) to get something from that mob.

And honestly….when you don’t HAVE to use real money to get Gem Store items for use in “gambling”….it’s not really gambling.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Gambling-for-GW2-gem-purchases-Funny-read/first#post1715730

Before you make a purchase on the Gem Shop – why not play the real life – Gem Shop Purchase Game! (It will improve your real life odds and bank account!) – See link above to begin today!

Adam.4103:

Please stop with the whole white knight act, you act as though ANet can do no wrong. What has entitlement got to do with anything… People spend REAL money and quite often get nothing in return. You actually think it’s a good business practice to be ok with losing angry customers over something that could be easily rectified?

Perhaps people who are spending money should take a couple seconds (or however long that may take them) to acutally understand what they’re buying?

They will always get something in return. The expectation of getting something does not equate to being gauranteed to receiving that something.

Nike.2631:

Are you one of the people with bugged accounts that can’t buy gems with gold? If not its also a play-to-play situation.

That is definitely true in general. Perhaps I was posting too much from my personal perspective, because this is not true for me. I think how true that is for a given person probably depends on the difference between their real-life financial situation and their in-game financial situation. I started playing not too long ago and so don’t have a lot of in-game gold and I still need a good amount of gear. I also dislike farming for its own sake so I don’t amass gold quickly. Therefore, buying keys with in-game gold for me is financially prohibitive. On the other hand, I have enough room in my real-life budget to spend $20 on gems a month. So my personal financial situation puts getting keys firmly in the Pay-to-Play category. Nevertheless, you are right that this system does not require real-life money.

You have some pretty high standards then for what a key should give – the boosts always have a function. The guild rep items are nice (moreso in small guilds). The bags of siler are erratic but can pay out handsomely. Armor repair canisters and revive orbs are both handy in deep fractal runs…

Well, there are two issues here, I suppose. One is that my personal experience with the chests seems a lot worse than yours. I have almost never gotten anything from them other than mobile vendors and mobile banks, which I find completely useless for my playing habits because I like to be in the open world, where I’m never very far from vendors or banks, so those items just take up precious inventory slots. I’ve gotten a grand total of 1 karma booster from the chests, and a few glory boosters. I know RNG be all RNGin’, but this is part of my point, which is that the baseline yield of the chests (i.e. worst-case scenario) could be better. The second issue is the subjectivity of “value.” It’s good that you feel like you get a good value on the chests but there are clearly many who don’t, and I don’t believe that everybody who is unsatisfied with the baseline yield of the chests needs to work on changing their definition of value. I know that you can’t make everybody happy, especially in a game where there is such a wide variety of viable playstyles, but it definitely seems that the drop-table of the chests currently includes a lot of things that the majority of the playerbase has no use for. If, for example, they took a look at their gem store sales figures and picked the top 25 items that people straight up buy, and restricted the chest drops to those, I think people would be a lot happier with what they get out of the chests, regardless of infamous rare drops, because they’d be getting stuff that is more generally useful. Conversely, ArenaNet could look at the items that people don’t tend to buy, and try to figure out how to improve them to make them more desirable to players.

Vol.5241:

Well what the heck happened to that mentality? Why do you guys feel like you are entitled to guaranteed items?

Gem store gambling is a great business decision and I hope Anet continues with it to encourage exclusivity with certain items. The fact that you guys keep buying chests when there is a low chance just shows how much it’s working.

Not everyone feels ‘entitled’ to something. It isn’t so much that people are complaining after opening 5 boxes they got nothing, but there seem to be many who are opening 50-100+ and seeing nothing. Sure you can claim, ‘Well it’s RNG, it’s a gamble, what do you expect!?!?’, but one needs to draw a line somewhere between a gamble and what is done as a blatant money grab with virtually no return.

The fact is, if you make these things this hard to obtain via the chests, hundreds or perhaps thousands of players won’t trust ANet after this, and their future chest promotions will be passed by without giving it another thought.
Look how many people remember the Halloween skin thing and won’t bother with this now, and those who were not around for Halloween are learning with this that it just isn’t worth it.
In the end, it means less revenue for ANet.

Honestly it would be far better when they do promotions like this, if they raise the drop rate of better items other than things like the xp while crafting boosts, mobile bank, type items. At least give people something useful to make it feel like it’s actually worth it to ‘gamble’ our gold/gems/real currency away.

Nike.2631:

I’m waiting for the explosive screams of rage when its revealed that completing all achievments related to frost & flame after all 4 parts are released will award a once-per-account molten weapon ticket.

I’d be more than happy if this were the case. I’ve picked up a few keys rounding out gem purchases and some more from leveling/story, but I’ve never picked up anything useful.

I’d like to have one skin from the Flame and Frost thing, but I really can’t put money in without a return.

Of course, It’ll probably be a random soulbound on acquire drop instead of a ticket and I’ll get a focus for my Warrior or something. :0

Kaeden.6952:

VoiceOfUnreason.5976:

Ooshi.8607:

I guess I didn’t receive the mail ordering me to buy some keys, pretty sure I will as I don’t think Anet would force only a portion of their players.

Btw, for everyone that was forced already to buy them, how exactly do they make you do it?

Do they threaten to delete one of your characters? Do they threaten to delete your account? Do they limit you bandwidth and make the game unplayable?

What exactly is the method that those evil doers are using to force you to buy those keys?

Force: as in, if you want these items, you are forced to gamble for them. This is obvious what I meant, you know it is, yet you decided to make a stupid post claiming outlandish things that aren’t related to what I said. You know kitten well what I meant.

Yeup I have to agree with you. I’m not a mini-pet guy but I feel bad for those people at x-mas who had to use gamble chests to try and get their minis, which were acct bnd so even if a friend got extras he couldn’t give them away.

In a game with cosmetic items being the priority, it’s kind of a low blow they are taking advantage of people like that.

PS. to the guy he quoted above, you’re an idiot.

Now now, you’re not being very nice!
So, I’m an idiot because I’ve got no problem understanding the concept of gambling for an item?
Do you also kitten at fairs because you can’t just buy the cuddly toy but have to buy the ticket for the raffle?
If you want that particular shiny jump through the assigned hoops. If you’re not ok with jumping through the hoops, move along and stop kittening that you can’t have the shiny.
You have the choice to do either one or the other! Simples!

This is a serious post on a topic which I am getting most concerned about from an ethical perspective.

I’ve been playing since launch and I mostly like the game for its WvW RPG flavour, however, there is 1 thing that is very disturbing for me. It’s apparent the trend towards gambling.

I understand ANet are in this to make money (they have every right to) and I think they’ve determined the best way to make money is to have the outcome of most new purchases unknown with painfully low drop rates. It started with the mystic forge (you could farm everything but people still buy mats etc), but now with the progression to black lion chests (fused skins) I think they’re going too far into the ‘casino’ business.

Is this game crossing an ethical boundary from casual mmo to online gambling and should the rating on the game change? People, I’m guessing lots of underage kids, are dropping real money and gambling it away. When does this kind of behaviour constitute adult only activities?

I’m not going to support this kind of business practice, I’ve not bought a key and I never will. Any chest I open will be from drops (never got one) or map completion. I have also stopped my children (15 and 11yrs) from playing the game as I believe it does cross the boundary. Even if you didn’t spend real money on the game the simple act of gambling in-game gold would still have me concerned.

So let me know if you think I’m being too precious or do I have a valid concern?

@StormadgeddonBK

I think you’re being overdramatic. “RNG” (or called by it’s simpler name, “chance”) is a core mechanic in most forms of gaming — whether it be MMOs, Video Games, Board Games, Sports, and so on and so on.

Oda.2348:

@StormadgeddonBK

I think you’re being overdramatic. “RNG” (or called by it’s simpler name, “chance”) is a core mechanic in most forms of gaming — whether it be MMOs, Video Games, Board Games, Sports, and so on and so on.

Yes, RNG is part of most games. However, when you wrap RNG with a slot machine graphic it instantly becomes online gambling even if no money is spent.

My concern is the act of gambling within the GW2 universe and the blurring line between a normal game with RNG (D2 is all RNG but there is no gambling) and other games with RNG that use a gambling mechanic (e.g. slot machine game etc).

One thing I wonder, is the Age restriction on GW2 is 12 yrs old, yet the game clearly encourages gambling…

Also, its not virtual money…because you buy gems with real life currency…so its gambling with real money…

I wonder how many politicans in government of whatever countries know this is happening and would they be interested?

I certainly could see the age limit being raised to 18+ at the very least…

What they’re doing is not illegal. Yet.

Meglobob.8620:

One thing I wonder, is the Age restriction on GW2 is 12 yrs old, yet the game clearly encourages gambling…

Also, its not virtual money…because you buy gems with real life currency…so its gambling with real money…

I wonder how many politicans in government of whatever countries know this is happening and would they be interested?

I certainly could see the age limit being raised to 18+ at the very least…

Maybe some anti-gambling Ministers of Parliament could be made aware of this…

Meglobob.8620:

One thing I wonder, is the Age restriction on GW2 is 12 yrs old, yet the game clearly encourages gambling…

Also, its not virtual money…because you buy gems with real life currency…so its gambling with real money…

I wonder how many politicans in government of whatever countries know this is happening and would they be interested?

I certainly could see the age limit being raised to 18+ at the very least…

You can buy Gems with in game Gold you earn by just playing normally. And besides, Anet isn’t forcing you to spend any real money at all. If a player can’t control his or her own OCD impulses to have the next great Shiny from a chest, then the problem is on the their end.

StormageddonBK.9842:

Maybe some anti-gambling Ministers of Parliament could be made aware of this…

Out of curiousity, what’s your endgame on this? It won’t change the way the game opperates. At most you might get the game blocked in your region, and then nobody gets to play. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face…

Nike.2631:

StormageddonBK.9842:

Maybe some anti-gambling Ministers of Parliament could be made aware of this…

Out of curiousity, what’s your endgame on this? It won’t change the way the game opperates. At most you might get the game blocked in your region, and then nobody gets to play. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face…

At least it would do something, hopefully make anet see.

StormageddonBK.9842:

Oda.2348:

@StormadgeddonBK

I think you’re being overdramatic. “RNG” (or called by it’s simpler name, “chance”) is a core mechanic in most forms of gaming — whether it be MMOs, Video Games, Board Games, Sports, and so on and so on.

Yes, RNG is part of most games. However, when you wrap RNG with a slot machine graphic it instantly becomes online gambling even if no money is spent.

My concern is the act of gambling within the GW2 universe and the blurring line between a normal game with RNG (D2 is all RNG but there is no gambling) and other games with RNG that use a gambling mechanic (e.g. slot machine game etc).

Pretty sure gambling from a legal standpoint requires a ‘payout’ with a certain value which varies by region/state/etc. Technically, the ‘payout’ from BLCs has zero value, and technically you don’t even own it.

Gasoline.2570:

At least it would do something, hopefully make anet see.

See what? That the MMO business is stupid to be involved in because people who have to pay nothing after the intial buy-in still caterwaul relentlessly about how unfair it all is? They have the data from past releases of similar content, and this is the model they came up with for this attempt. If this isn’t the way to extract the most value out of the effort, the next time around we’ll see something else.

Its not that I’m a fan of doing it this way, but I am a fan of recognizing whose neck is on the chopping block. The risks are theirs to take, not ours.

I doubt it will be seen as gambling by any legislative body… apart from the fact that you don’t need to spend real money to participate and the fact that every chest contains something, the “prizes” have no real monetary value that can be ascribed to them.

I think they should have used the same methodology as with the wintersday skins too. Maybe more expensive tickets, like 2000gems/ticket would have been a lot more fair & less frustrating.

Not really following how ANET can be held accountable for the voluntary actions of people who later come to conclude their actions regrettable?

Rather, perhaps those making these actions should rethink their decision making process and not make choices in which the results may not be acceptable to them? And more importantly, take some personal responsibility for their own actions?

And before someone suggests that these individuals may have been mislead with respect to their chances to achieve their expected results, it can only be concluded that any such expectations were derived that person’s own delusions. No guarantees were offered, no odds were stated, any conclusions a person drew were based on their own perceptions. No one aside from themselves can be held responsible for their thinking.

Edit:
This kind of misguided thinking can clearly be seen in threads like:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Fused-weapon-drop-rate-data/first#post1718140

Even after being explained how such conclusions are inherently fallible, some people insist that there’s some quantifiable benefit to be gained from them.

The problem is for people that want to be able to obtain new content that the company provides. There is no other way to obtain it other than RNG. Therefore, if players want the experience they must gamble. They can’t even trade to get it.

People love to use the lottery or casino comparison as justification. But that’s a device that’s sole purpose is to gamble and to gamble for money.

GW2’s sole purpose isn’t to gamble. And the gambling we are talking about isn’t for money, it’s for virtual goods.

So a better comparison would be: Imagine going into a shop at the mall and wanting to buy the cool clothes in there, except that there are no price tags. You must pay money just to be able to roll three 20 sided dies. If they all land on 20 you get to the shirt or jeans or whatever. If not, you don’t anything at all.

I wonder how long that shop would stay in business. I wouldn’t shop there. I’d rather go to the store where there is a price for a good. If I like the good enough to justify the price, I buy it.

Nike.2631:

StormageddonBK.9842:

Maybe some anti-gambling Ministers of Parliament could be made aware of this…

Out of curiousity, what’s your endgame on this? It won’t change the way the game opperates. At most you might get the game blocked in your region, and then nobody gets to play. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face…

My endgame is ‘not have gambling as the focal point of obtaining things’. IMO this is sending people the wrong message, especially the young. I don’t care about adults throwing money (real or virtual) down the lion chest toilet. However, as a parent, I find the practice of exposing children to this culture abhorrent.

The little jab at sending a message to a Minister would at most have the game’s rating looked at, but in reality nothing would happen at all.

At the end of the day my hope is ANet moves away from using this method of rewarding players.

In the Netherlands we have strict laws forbidding (online) gambling. Outcomes that are purely determined by chance (and not by skill) are considered gambling. For example, online poker counts as gambling, but also promotion campaigns such as an online quiz. Generally, you’ll need a permit to organize such activities in the Netherlands.

I have also wondered how these BLTC sales relate to these laws. It definitely seems gambling, but there are some legal conditions that seem to apply:

First, one should determine whether gambling can be considered the core business of the company. In this case one could argue otherwise, although the gem store is quite a central part of the games revenues.

Second, the prizes arguable are too small to matter. By Dutch law the maximum is 2300 euro for an online quiz. Although it’s hard to put a price tag on these skins, I doubt anyone would be willing to pay that amount. So it may be perfectly fine to have this sort of gambling in game.

In any case, it is an interesting question and I think ANet is in a moral gray area here. Especially given that minors (12 and up) can play this game, it’s not a pretty system. I too hope that they move away from it in the future; it also doesn’t seem generate a lot of goodwill among there players to be hones.

P.S. I’m absolutely no lawyer and my legal knowledge is limited; I only recapped what I could find online on the issue. I bet ANet’s lawyers have sorted this out way more thoroughly. Furthermore, I didn’t buy any keys and thus have no personal stake in this matter at all

Morrar.1764:

In the Netherlands we have strict laws forbidding (online) gambling. Outcomes that are purely determined by chance (and not by skill) are considered gambling. For example, online poker counts as gambling, but also promotion campaigns such as an online quiz. Generally, you’ll need a permit to organize such activities in the Netherlands.

I have also wondered how these BLTC sales relate to these laws. It definitely seems gambling, but there are some legal conditions that seem to apply:

First, one should determine whether gambling can be considered the core business of the company. In this case one could argue otherwise, although the gem store is quite a central part of the games revenues.

Second, the prizes arguable are too small to matter. By Dutch law the maximum is 2300 euro for an online quiz. Although it’s hard to put a price tag on these skins, I doubt anyone would be willing to pay that amount. So it may be perfectly fine to have this sort of gambling in game.

In any case, it is an interesting question and I think ANet is in a moral gray area here. Especially given that minors (12 and up) can play this game, it’s not a pretty system. I too hope that they move away from it in the future; it also doesn’t seem generate a lot of goodwill among there players to be hones.

P.S. I’m absolutely no lawyer and my legal knowledge is limited; I only recapped what I could find online on the issue. I bet ANet’s lawyers have sorted this out way more thoroughly. Furthermore, I didn’t buy any keys and thus have no personal stake in this matter at all

Very nice post. Actually I was about to post the exact same things
Yes, I too wonder how this relates to law. I agree it would be very hard to actually quantify damages done or to even prove this to violate anti-gambling laws. Although, the core mechanics are definately there.

I think economically there’s a certain point to be made that Anet have to generate revenue somehow. However, the thing with the fused skins feels over the top.
Looking at their jobs page (if that’s any indicator) they seem to be expanding rapidly, thus they seem to be doing just fine financially.

Very good point about minors playing. Guild Wars 2 isn’t marketed as a mature audience only MMO. And for minors it is very easy to loose themselves into gambling that violates the “don’t gamble money you can’t afford to lose” rule.

If this fused weapon skins concept absolutely has to make its return for the next round of super special shinies, please, please, try to strike a better balance in entry costs vs. chance of success. Bring the costs of BL keys down slightly, and slightly up the chances for getting the shinies. Also, please make the super special shiny tradeable on the TP.

I personally have no stake in this. I have no desire for the skins and I won’t try to get them. But I do feel that ArenaNet are losing face over this concept if it continues…