Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: arthurobenzi.2619

arthurobenzi.2619

" three charr pushing" , she actually prove she was stronger but it wasn’t really a fight, just a “who can push the harder”.

they were trying to kill her and she subdued all three with nothing but a bench and raw strength. It wasn’t just a pushing contest because they were trying to kill her. The same way they were trying to kill the rest of the council. If anyone else from any other race had done it, it would have been considered evidence of their fighting prowess.

I’m sorry if my sentence wasn’t very clear, by fight I don’t mean the situation, but how it is done.

Lone norn are against compared against warbands later on. “Occasionally, a warband (or a Norn hunter) might cross the line into the other’s land, only to be cut down without prejudice”

Norn aren’t organized. So any warband that would get cut down would be by whatever wandering norn happens upon them.

We have quite a bit of lore confirmed. Norn are known for solo fighting. They train since childhood for heroics and they have super strength. they are a race of super heroes. Charr train since childhood to work in groups. They don’t have the strength of the norn and we know of no inherent advantage that they have over the norn. Not even teeth and claws.

We have the same type of lore concerning solo humans against solo charr but for obvious reasons, there is no question about which would tend to win. Even though we have incidents of humans winning.

“Occasionally, a warband (or a Norn hunter) might cross the line into the other’s land, only to be cut down without prejudice”
This don’t mean than a Norn Hunter=a warband , but than the norn travels alone and the charr in warband. But in the example of MotW, it’s about charr who attack the norn ( and by extension the norns villages).
Further, you can’t erase the teeth and claws from the charr capacities :
-“the mouth filled with prominent sharp teeth suited for their carnivorous diet”
- “The charr have a set of sharp claws which can be used as knives for general tasks but it appears the charr tend to favour weapons when fighting.”
This is an advantage, in any case. The kind of advantage who can be use to end a fight.

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

I’m sorry if my sentence wasn’t very clear, by fight I don’t mean the situation, but how it is done.

She manipulated the situation to be able to play to her strength by using the bench as a shield against their weapons. remember, their intent was to kill, not to get into a pushing match.

“Occasionally, a warband (or a Norn hunter) might cross the line into the other’s land, only to be cut down without prejudice”
This don’t mean than a Norn Hunter=a warband , but than the norn travels alone and the charr in warband. But in the example of MotW, it’s about charr who attack the norn ( and by extension the norns villages).

The warbands that get cut down were after the charr invaded. it was when either wandered into the territory. So it had nothing to do with the charr attacking villages. It has only to do with crossing into the others territory.

Further, you can’t erase the teeth and claws from the charr capacities :
-“the mouth filled with prominent sharp teeth suited for their carnivorous diet”
- “The charr have a set of sharp claws which can be used as knives for general tasks but it appears the charr tend to favour weapons when fighting.”
This is an advantage, in any case. The kind of advantage who can be use to end a fight.

I’m not erasing the teeth and claws, I’m saying that norn also have access to them. It’s like two people having a knife. No one has the advantage because both have access to one.

(edited by Dustfinger.9510)

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Force Of The Divine.5437

Force Of The Divine.5437

Norn are stronger then Charr. Even stronger then several as sea of sorrows stated.
Doesnt mean that Norn would win the fight.
Personaly i think charr would be more agile and perhaps a smidge faster in a fight.

This whole discussion is mostly based on melee combat and most norns arent armored entirely (except the norn male t3 armor) a mistake that any combat experienced charr would use to their advantage. And no i dont think the fully armored charr would be slower because they practice and basicly live in the armor wich would give then enough strengh and speed to use as fast as unarmored.

Although in game i strongly favor charr, i think the results would be 50/50.

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Apparition.1576

Apparition.1576

+1 @ Force of the Divine

I agree with everything that you said. Strength is always an important fact. But not only are Charr strong, but they are extremely ruthless, and bred for combat. A fight is not the same thing as an arm wrestling contest.

Char are killers.. the fight could go either way but my bet would be on the Charr.

One day.. all of you shall submit to the Flame Legion…. to me… I AM BLADABOS

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Ehecatl.9172

Ehecatl.9172

Norn are stronger then Charr. Even stronger then several as sea of sorrows stated.
Doesnt mean that Norn would win the fight.
Personaly i think charr would be more agile and perhaps a smidge faster in a fight.

This whole discussion is mostly based on melee combat and most norns arent armored entirely (except the norn male t3 armor) a mistake that any combat experienced charr would use to their advantage. And no i dont think the fully armored charr would be slower because they practice and basicly live in the armor wich would give then enough strengh and speed to use as fast as unarmored.

Although in game i strongly favor charr, i think the results would be 50/50.

There’s nothing in the lore that suggests charr are much faster than norn. Or any other race, for that matter. At least not in terms of reflexes and combat speed.

Also, not all charr wear heavy armor either. It seems a bit unfair to dress the charr in full plate armor and then have the norn be naked.

And as I said early on in this thread, in lore norn can change into their animal form and increase their already large strength advantage in addition to gaining the claws, teeth, and fur a charr enjoys. Norn literally have all the benefits charr have on top of being physically stronger.

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Apparition.1576

Apparition.1576

First time I heard this argument, so you are debating if a giant is faster than a lion?

Very interesting…

One day.. all of you shall submit to the Flame Legion…. to me… I AM BLADABOS

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Force Of The Divine.5437

Force Of The Divine.5437

Norn are stronger then Charr. Even stronger then several as sea of sorrows stated.
Doesnt mean that Norn would win the fight.
Personaly i think charr would be more agile and perhaps a smidge faster in a fight.

This whole discussion is mostly based on melee combat and most norns arent armored entirely (except the norn male t3 armor) a mistake that any combat experienced charr would use to their advantage. And no i dont think the fully armored charr would be slower because they practice and basicly live in the armor wich would give then enough strengh and speed to use as fast as unarmored.

Although in game i strongly favor charr, i think the results would be 50/50.

There’s nothing in the lore that suggests charr are much faster than norn. Or any other race, for that matter. At least not in terms of reflexes and combat speed.

Also, not all charr wear heavy armor either. It seems a bit unfair to dress the charr in full plate armor and then have the norn be naked.

And as I said early on in this thread, in lore norn can change into their animal form and increase their already large strength advantage in addition to gaining the claws, teeth, and fur a charr enjoys. Norn literally have all the benefits charr have on top of being physically stronger.

Thats why i said personaly. I didnt say lore supported. Because of the cat like appearence i assumed it was likely that charr had a more instict quick reflexes then human/norn.

As for the armored statement i pitted two melee fighters against each other. So the norn would also wear heavy armor. Most norn in the game fight with a few clothes on as resistant to cold. And for some reason dont prefer the fully plated body armor.

The transformation to animals does give the norn another boost to their ability’s BUT. As far as i know it they dont wield weapons or armor in those shapes. Wich means a big disadvantage against charr. They have the ability to have one or the other. Not both at the same time, wich doesnt mean litteraly the same advantages as a charr.
I think the Norn has a bigger chance of winning without their spirit animal transformation.

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Ehecatl.9172

Ehecatl.9172

First time I heard this argument, so you are debating if a giant is faster than a lion?

Very interesting…

Are you implying that charr and lions are the same thing? Because they aren’t. Not even close.

Most of the anatomical attributes lions have that make them fast aren’t present in the charr. First off, charr are much larger and much bulkier than any lion, which means in terms of size you’re looking at something closer to a bear. Big cats can’t walk on their hind legs at all, which means charr and lions would have completely different spinal structure, which means charr wouldn’t be able to twist and turn as readily as a lion could. Lions also don’t have the broad shoulders of a charr, much less shoulders designed more similarly to an ape judging by the range of motion charr arms enjoy that a lion could never have. On that point charr arms and shoulders wouldn’t be able to reach the same forward acceleration that lions and other big cats have. Again, you’re looking at a creature that’s build is closer to a bear than a cat.

Charr are not cats. They are completely unlike any creature found on Earth. So you can’t apply attributes of animals from our world to them unless they’ve actually been shown to have said attributes.

And to the other fellow that addressed me. Actually yes, norn can use weapons in their beast forms.

Attachments:

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Apparition.1576

Apparition.1576

Cat-like creatures with four legs are much faster and agile than any 2 legged creature… that’s a fact… there nullified your entire argument in two sentence.

One day.. all of you shall submit to the Flame Legion…. to me… I AM BLADABOS

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Ehecatl.9172

Ehecatl.9172

Cat-like creatures with four legs are much faster and agile than any 2 legged creature… that’s a fact… there nullified your entire argument in two sentence.

Charr don’t have four legs, though. They have two legs and two arms that function as pseudo-legs when running. Their back legs are also built to support a bipedal stance easily, which means they aren’t optimized for a quadrupedal stance.

Your whole argument sums up to “But they look like cats so they are cats!” But they aren’t. They are anatomically different from cats. Very, very different. Their huge build, broad shoulders, and the curvature of their spine with their hunched posture all tell us that charr aren’t the most dexterous creature in the animal kingdom.

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Force Of The Divine.5437

Force Of The Divine.5437

Firstly off….very nice picture of those norns in animal form with weapons, very cool especialy the boar. But even if they wield a weapon they do loose their armor in those forms.

Perhaps Charr altough have a cat like appearance should be compared more to gorillas seeing the way they also move on both 2 legs and also 4 (2 legs and 2 arms). Or a cross between a big cat and a gorilla? As you say speculation since there isnt any animal comperison from the real world.

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Peppercats.5740

Peppercats.5740

The Norn would probably be too drunk to stand

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Ehecatl.9172

Ehecatl.9172

Firstly off….very nice picture of those norns in animal form with weapons, very cool especialy the boar. But even if they wield a weapon they do loose their armor in those forms.

Perhaps Charr altough have a cat like appearance should be compared more to gorillas seeing the way they also move on both 2 legs and also 4 (2 legs and 2 arms). Or a cross between a big cat and a gorilla? As you say speculation since there isnt any animal comperison from the real world.

While they do lose their armor bear in mind (Get it? bear?!) that these are also supernatural transformations that are suppose to be definitively superior to fighting normally. Back in GW1 where norn were actually able to transform freely due to not having been neutered by the racial elites limitations just about every norn, no matter what armor they had, would transform prior to engaging in combat. It made them larger, stronger, and more difficult to harm. It wasn’t treated as “If I do this there are pros and cons that I must consider first.” It was just a power boost.

It’s also worth pointing out that in GW1 the player could get something called Ursan Blessing, which gave the player an armor rating of 100, where as the warrior armor had a maximum armor rating of 80 +20 against physical damage. Though the player didn’t get to fully transform, this does imply the power has some level of supernatural resilience comparable to heavy armor.

As for the charr species and genus, I think it’s fair to say that wouldn’t fit into any zoological classification we use in our world. Their build doesn’t suggest much in the way of agility or dexterity, but definitely screams power. There’s also lore to support that strength as a very old lore source from GW1 stated charr claws can rip through chainmail. I BELIEVE there was a source that said a lone charr warrior was worth three human warriors on the battlefield, but don’t quote me on that.

The problem is we have pretty solid evidence that the norn outclass the charr at their own game by a fairly significant degree. It does make sense, though. Norn are single combat warriors where as the charr are all about group combat.

(edited by Ehecatl.9172)

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: arthurobenzi.2619

arthurobenzi.2619

The problem is we have pretty solid evidence that the norn outclass the charr at their own game by a fairly significant degree.

Source ? And if by “their own game” you mean war you should know that for war Charr > Norn.

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Sartharina.3542

Sartharina.3542

Cat-like creatures with four legs are much faster and agile than any 2 legged creature… that’s a fact… there nullified your entire argument in two sentence.

Faster overland, but not more agile (And slower over very short distances). A cat lacks the dexterity of a human. Cats do not have a great range of motion a human does.

Norn are supernaturally strong and tough, with human athlete levels of agility despite their size.

A charr can run away from a Norn, but not take one in a fight without serious numeric advantage.

Even without transforming, Norn are superior to Charr. Charr claws and teeth don’t matter, because they’re weak against Norn fists and muscle.

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: tehdevbot.1398

tehdevbot.1398

Ok. One on one..sorry but this goes to the Norn.
Large scale combat..and those big boastful trees fall hard and fast.

Main point, once the Charr send a legion Jormags way, sure some Norn adventurers will fall in on the march, and do some real damage to the dragon..but once its all said and done, with Jormag lying dead in a pile of his own ice surrounded by Charr machinations of war, the Norn will have a new spirit of the wild to revere. Charr.

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Basaltface.2786

Basaltface.2786

imo?

In a straight up hand to hand fight? Norn, no question

In a fight with armor and weapons? Cant say

Army vs army? Charr..clearly

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Dipdoo.4861

Dipdoo.4861

Very deep debate here, I largely agree with what’s stated just above, but what I’ve noticed is that the specific experience of the two combatants has been sorely neglected.

Charr fight each-other and, at times, prisoners of other races, in both semi-friendly competitions and complete brawls, typically while armed and armored, although they are unarmed at times during these semi-friendly competitions. (Charr spar many times more than any other race, especially Norn) While the bulk of the Norn sparring experience is made up of bare-handed drunk bar fights with each-other and possible ‘Tough Hunts’. Keep in mind that these are averages, and I haven’t mentioned the already clear natural advantages the Norn has in terms of strength and such.

Overall…
Unarmed: I’d say Norn has the better chance here by quite the margin.
Completely armed: Charr has a VERY slight advantage, despite having a natural disadvantage, their aforementioned combat experience tips the scales ever so slightly.

Not exactly what was asked originally but…
Group combat: Charr have a massive advantage here due to their previously mentioned lifestyles and training.

Keep in mind that this is assuming they duel in an open field with temperate weather, change the battleground and the advantages each combatant has also changes, depending on the battleground of course.

Big Cat Dipdoo ~ Warrior, Caeda Ripstep ~ Revenant, Braum Has Arrived ~ Guardian [SQD]
“It’s time to Rim Ram their Jim Jams.”

(edited by Dipdoo.4861)