Guild Wars 2

Even though we do have other cities to access these services in, part of LA’s convenience was it’s location in the map, and the fact that’s it’s the only multi-race city in the game. It was designed to be a social and services hub. It’s literally the center of the whole game.

If you’ve been playing for a while, and are heading somewhere to take care of all your selling/banking/etc, a central location just makes sense unless you’re certain where you are going next. World bosses are all over the map, so LA is a good spot to head to when you’re not certain which boss is next.

There’s also one thing that I’ve not seen mentioned here. I would think a multi-racial hub is even more important to the roleplaying community. Is a Norn RP’er going to go to Divinity’s Reach or Rata Sum for services, or are they going to feel more obligated to using only Hoelbrak when a central hub is not viable? Hoelbrak is certainly less convenient (and more costly) if what you’re doing is in the western half the map. I’m not an RPer myself, and I know they are just one subset of the game community, but I could see them being more heavily affected by changes like this.

Ayrilana.1396:

Only two services, as I had previously mentioned, are not accessible. You’re making the assumption that Anet deliberately did not include some services just to promote their airship pass. This is pure speculation based on no factual evidence. If I’m wrong then by all means provide the evidence.

mrstealth.6701:

The ‘slippery slope’ is that removal of services, for the purpose of making the passes more tempting to buy. Adding the Royal Terrace did not do this, but the changes to Vigil Keep and addition of the airship did do it. Hence it being one step down onto the ‘slippery slope’ in relation to the impact of the Terrrace.

Again, this is speculation based on zero factual evidence. Provide the evidence and then that argument will hold weight.

The crafting stations are missing, as well as those two services. The evidence is the fact that they are not present in the new central hub (Vigil Keep), yet are in the airship.

And the airship lacks a bunch of services you can find on the ground. Stop being drama lama’s and click on a WP in another city to make use of their facilities.

Ayrilana.1396:

Which I mentioned before that the Royal Terrace had as well. Your argument against it being a slippery slope is invalid if this is what you’re referring to. You made a comparison between the Royal Terrace and airship pass. Both have the crafting stations. Since both have them, there’s no change and thus no slippery slope.

There is a very large change in that aspect between the Terrace and airship. After the Terrace was added Divinity’s Reach still had crafting stations outside the Terrace. The game’s central hub, after the addition of the airship, as no crafting stations.

The difference, and the slippery slope, lie in the services available outside of the pass-only areas, in the publicly accessible areas of each of these cities/hubs.

The fact is that the central hub of the game no longer has publicly accessible crafting, profession trainers, or laurel vendor.

Even if they airship wasn’t added in, and Vigil Keep still lacked these services, it could be said that it was an attempt to push sales of Terrace Passes (had they been re-added to the store). The fact that the new ‘one stop shop’ is parked directly over the hub with ‘missing’ services, just makes it much more obvious.

Rangersix.1754:

And the airship lacks a bunch of services you can find on the ground. Stop being drama lama’s and click on a WP in another city to make use of their facilities.

I bet those loading screens make the game fun.

mrstealth.6701:

Ayrilana.1396:

Which I mentioned before that the Royal Terrace had as well. Your argument against it being a slippery slope is invalid if this is what you’re referring to. You made a comparison between the Royal Terrace and airship pass. Both have the crafting stations. Since both have them, there’s no change and thus no slippery slope.

There is a very large change in that aspect between the Terrace and airship. After the Terrace was added Divinity’s Reach still had crafting stations outside the Terrace. The game’s central hub, after the addition of the airship, as no crafting stations.

The difference, and the slippery slope, lie in the services available outside of the pass-only areas, in the publicly accessible areas of each of these cities/hubs.

The fact is that the central hub of the game no longer has publicly accessible crafting, profession trainers, or laurel vendor.

Anet never said EVERYTHING would be to Vigil Keep or that Keep would be permanent new hub. They said everything EXCLUSIVE to Lion’s Arch, and oh well banks TP merhcants. All of those got moved. Last time I checked crafting stations are available in 12 other maps. And Laurel vendors in 8 others. Therefore they were not exclusive to LA. Stop being Drama Lama its not the end of the world.

g e o.2589:

Anet never said EVERYTHING would be to Vigil Keep or that Keep would be permanent new hub. They said everything EXCLUSIVE to Lion’s Arch, and oh well banks TP merhcants. All of those got moved. Last time I checked crafting stations are available in 12 other maps. And Laurel vendors in 8 others. Therefore they were not exclusive to LA. Stop being Drama Lama its not the end of the world.

You’re right, they quite clearly said this in their patch notes…

patch notes

Most of the services in Lion’s Arch have found a new home at the Vigil Keep in Gendarran Fields.

Floating above is the captain’s airship, the Havoc’s Heir, a one-stop shop for all services.

It’s clearly that stated only some services from LA are in Vigil Keep, and that the excluded services are in the pass-only airship. That means they intended for services to be missing from Vigil Keep, while also intentionally including them in the pass-only area.

Any player wanting a fully functioning/serviced central hub now has to have a pass. This was not the case before Tuesday’s update, all of the central hub’s services were available to everyone.

This is comparable to your auto dealer coming to your house and changing the lock on your truck’s tailgate, then trying to sell you a key for it. Sure, you can still load things into your truck over top of the tailgate, but that’s less convenient.

One of the devs said earlier in the thread that everything would be available in Vigil Keep. So even the Devs were told that everything would be available in vigil keep.

The fact that the laurels and crafting aren’t there is a very transparent attempt to get people to buy the airship pass.

patch notes

Most of the services in Lion’s Arch have found a new home at the Vigil Keep in Gendarran Fields.

Floating above is the captain’s airship, the Havoc’s Heir, a one-stop shop for all services.

It’s clearly that stated only some services from LA are in Vigil Keep, and that the excluded services are in the pass-only airship. That means they intended for services to be missing from Vigil Keep, while also intentionally including them in the pass-only area.

Any player wanting a fully functioning/serviced central hub now has to have a pass. This was not the case before Tuesday’s update, all of the central hub’s services were available to everyone.

This is comparable to your auto dealer coming to your house and changing the lock on your truck’s tailgate, then trying to sell you a key for it. Sure, you can still load things into your truck over top of the tailgate, but that’s less convenient.

You can’t deny that the tickets to Airship (1 time use) can be found for free, quite frequently. It is not anything as P2W absurd as some people above mentioned. It is just 40 more seconds of way from Toilet to Crafting. Nothing disasterous

Gambit.8425:

Ayrilana.1396:

Starting your post off with calling someone an “Anet fan boy” which that type of phrase usuage used to insult people just shows immaturity and weakens in argument you may potentially have. Please refrain from doing this in the future.

They removed the game’s central player hub, replaced it with a lesser version with missing features and added a gemstore permanent mini-hub with all the features ABOVE THE REMOVED ONE.

Defenders of that move should be happy with fanbois, the alternatives would be a lot more insulting… not that they’d get it though.

And yet I was not defending it. I don’t really care what they do with the gem store items tbh. He mistook my argument for what everyone else is discussing and lumped it with them.

mrstealth.6701:

Ayrilana.1396:

Only two services, as I had previously mentioned, are not accessible. You’re making the assumption that Anet deliberately did not include some services just to promote their airship pass. This is pure speculation based on no factual evidence. If I’m wrong then by all means provide the evidence.

mrstealth.6701:

The ‘slippery slope’ is that removal of services, for the purpose of making the passes more tempting to buy. Adding the Royal Terrace did not do this, but the changes to Vigil Keep and addition of the airship did do it. Hence it being one step down onto the ‘slippery slope’ in relation to the impact of the Terrrace.

Again, this is speculation based on zero factual evidence. Provide the evidence and then that argument will hold weight.

The crafting stations are missing, as well as those two services. The evidence is the fact that they are not present in the new central hub (Vigil Keep), yet are in the airship.

No. That’s conjecture, not evidence.

A ton of services were added to the airship because that was what people wanted after the royal terrace was released. This isn’t some conspiracy to manipulate players.

mrstealth.6701:

There is a very large change in that aspect between the Terrace and airship. After the Terrace was added Divinity’s Reach still had crafting stations outside the Terrace. The game’s central hub, after the addition of the airship, as no crafting stations.

The difference, and the slippery slope, lie in the services available outside of the pass-only areas, in the publicly accessible areas of each of these cities/hubs.

The fact is that the central hub of the game no longer has publicly accessible crafting, profession trainers, or laurel vendor.

Even if they airship wasn’t added in, and Vigil Keep still lacked these services, it could be said that it was an attempt to push sales of Terrace Passes (had they been re-added to the store). The fact that the new ‘one stop shop’ is parked directly over the hub with ‘missing’ services, just makes it much more obvious.

First of all, I’m referring to the royal terrace and airship as separate entities regardless of what map they are in. I doubt people go into them just to wp to services outside.

Again, people would be speculating with no evidence and finding a reason to complain. “Oh look! You can get this awesome drop from mobs. Anet must be trying to get people to buy MF boosters.” Conjecture.

And you’re also making the assumption that the Vigil Keep thing is permanent. For all we know, they will just rebuild Lion’s Arch.

ChaosKirin.1328:

One of the devs said earlier in the thread that everything would be available in Vigil Keep. So even the Devs were told that everything would be available in vigil keep.

The fact that the laurels and crafting aren’t there is a very transparent attempt to get people to buy the airship pass.

No. That’s one person, who’s not a dev, that made a mistake and wasn’t aware that only essential services would be moved to the keep. He later corrected himself. There was an article with an interview with anet devs that stated this.

g e o.2589:

You can’t deny that the tickets to Airship (1 time use) can be found for free, quite frequently. It is not anything as P2W absurd as some people above mentioned. It is just 40 more seconds of way from Toilet to Crafting. Nothing disasterous

I’ve had few of them from bags, but nowhere near enough to cover my daily need to access services. I do agree that it’s not P2W at all. It’s pay for convenience.

Pay for convenience itself is just fine. But the problem is they want us to pay for a convenience that was free yesterday. They removed freely available conveniences, just so they could charge for them. That is a business decision that doesn’t sit well with quite a few of us, and it shows Anet’s willingness to ‘take back’ things that have been offered for free.

It is ‘just a convenience’ that was taken, and I’m not trying to claim they will do the same with something more substantial. But I think it does open the door for other similar conveniences to be taken and put behind the gemstore walls.

g e o.2589:

Anet never said EVERYTHING would be to Vigil Keep or that Keep would be permanent new hub. They said everything EXCLUSIVE to Lion’s Arch, and oh well banks TP merhcants. All of those got moved. Last time I checked crafting stations are available in 12 other maps. And Laurel vendors in 8 others. Therefore they were not exclusive to LA. Stop being Drama Lama its not the end of the world.

Being oblivious about the inconvenience of not having the Mystic toilet and crafting stations in close vicinity for free, which we did for 1½ year up until yesterday, just shows you’re a casual player who doesn’t know any better.

One of the devs said earlier in the thread that everything would be available in Vigil Keep. So even the Devs were told that everything would be available in vigil keep.

The fact that the laurels and crafting aren’t there is a very transparent attempt to get people to buy the airship pass.

And this.

Gambit.8425:

g e o.2589:

Anet never said EVERYTHING would be to Vigil Keep or that Keep would be permanent new hub. They said everything EXCLUSIVE to Lion’s Arch, and oh well banks TP merhcants. All of those got moved. Last time I checked crafting stations are available in 12 other maps. And Laurel vendors in 8 others. Therefore they were not exclusive to LA. Stop being Drama Lama its not the end of the world.

Being oblivious about the inconvenience of not having the Mystic toilet and crafting stations in close vicinity for free, which we did for 1½ year up until yesterday, just shows you’re a casual player who doesn’t know any better.

One of the devs said earlier in the thread that everything would be available in Vigil Keep. So even the Devs were told that everything would be available in vigil keep.

The fact that the laurels and crafting aren’t there is a very transparent attempt to get people to buy the airship pass.

And this.

sorry but I am just a player who is not too lazy to shake kitten and go through a portal, or for more convenience pay 1.59 silver

Ayrilana.1396:

A ton of services were added to the airship because that was what people wanted after the royal terrace was released. This isn’t some conspiracy to manipulate players.

Thats just conjecture. IMHO there’s a pattern forming. As for what people wanted I’m sure you’d find that if players were asked beforehand as to whether they’d mind if this scenario happened that the vast majority would mind.

Ayrilana.1396:

And yet I was not defending it. I don’t really care what they do with the gem store items tbh. He mistook my argument for what everyone else is discussing and lumped it with them.

I don’t see your name anywhere in his text and I also fully understand his reasoning about The Royal Pass vs Airship Pass. They’re nothing alike. I remember getting a 2 week royal pass for free early in the event which I frequently used to quickly sell/mystic forge stuff when bags were full from farming. This was before the salvaging days we have now. But when the Queen’s Jubilee event was over I, like everyone else who’s fond of efficiency, went back to LA as home hub.

Ayrilana.1396:

No. That’s conjecture, not evidence.

A ton of services were added to the airship because that was what people wanted after the royal terrace was released. This isn’t some conspiracy to manipulate players.

Just look at the patch notes, or the two lines from it that I quoted above. It explicitly states that only some services from LA are included in the Vigil Keep, and that the airship is a “one-stop shop for all services”.

The crafting stations are clearly not in Vigil Keep. This is a fact, that the patch notes support being an intentional change, as it states that not all services will be in Vigil Keep.

First of all, I’m referring to the royal terrace and airship as separate entities regardless of what map they are in. I doubt people go into them just to wp to services outside.

Then you are not even looking at the issue or the point. The issue we have is with the changes made to services available in the host cities of the pass-only areas, compared to the services made available inside the pass-only areas. DR saw no changes to it’s own services, where as the central hub did have services excluded.

The comparison of services available in the Terrace, to those in the airship, is not related to the issue.

And you’re also making the assumption that the Vigil Keep thing is permanent. For all we know, they will just rebuild Lion’s Arch.

I never made that assumption. In fact, I expect LA to be rebuilt or for some other permanent hub to be established later on. But this does not change the fact that the current central hub has services intentionally excluded, while being intentionally included in the adjacent pass-only area.

It’s reasonable to assume that the airship will remain available at whatever future hub exists, as they are selling permanent passes for it. It would make little sense to sell a permanent pass to a temporary area. Whether or not that future area (if it ever exists) will have all services available remains to be seen. In either case, I expect that the airship will be nearby offering it’s services in a more convenient manner.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

We have not removed the central hub. All services have been moved to Vigil’s Keep, due to the attack on Lion’s Arch. You can find everything there.

Not giving us a social hub and splitting us into those who can afford the pass and those who can’t possibly afford the pass is very shortsighted.

I can’t imagine why we would not be allowed our social hub – and why all the services will now be in one central place but only for those who can buy the pass in the next week.

mrstealth.6701:

It’s reasonable to assume that the airship will remain available at whatever future hub exists, as they are selling permanent passes for it. It would make little sense to sell a permanent pass to a temporary area.

With the kind of incompetence and malice people are throwing at ANet over this, I am surprised nobody suggested this is, in fact, The Plan.

morrolan.9608:

Ayrilana.1396:

A ton of services were added to the airship because that was what people wanted after the royal terrace was released. This isn’t some conspiracy to manipulate players.

Thats just conjecture. IMHO there’s a pattern forming. As for what people wanted I’m sure you’d find that if players were asked beforehand as to whether they’d mind if this scenario happened that the vast majority would mind.

Nice try at trying to be smart with me but no. It’s entirely plausible that they added services that people wanted. Why would they added services that people wouldn’t want?

Gambit.8425:

Ayrilana.1396:

And yet I was not defending it. I don’t really care what they do with the gem store items tbh. He mistook my argument for what everyone else is discussing and lumped it with them.

I don’t see your name anywhere in his text and I also fully understand his reasoning about The Royal Pass vs Airship Pass.

I don’t remember seeing any posts on that subject so I assumed he was referring to me. If not, then that’s my mistake.

mrstealth.6701:

-snip-

My argument is against the usage of slippery slope by you yet I’m consistently being dragged into arguments/discussions outside of that.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

mrstealth.6701:

It’s reasonable to assume that the airship will remain available at whatever future hub exists, as they are selling permanent passes for it. It would make little sense to sell a permanent pass to a temporary area.

With the kind of incompetence and malice people are throwing at ANet over this, I am surprised nobody suggested this is, in fact, The Plan.

I did think of that as a remote possibility, but I don’t think Anet is dumb enough to attempt that stunt. The backlash for selling a permanent pass, then removing the area it allows access to would just be far too severe. Only the most rabid of fanboys would support such a move.

It would cause quite the amusing kittenstorm, but I just don’t see that one happening.

Wow, just wow. I cant believe people are complaining over something that’s already available in the game. I could understand if Anet made people pay to be able to craft stuff, but for the fact that all services on Lions Arch are still available elsewhere in the game makes me question some people’s sense of thought.

Are people really complaining over luxury. I’m still amazed this thread is actually real… My goodness, lol the level of stupidity is enthralling to the point of brain cell degeneration.

mrstealth.6701:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

mrstealth.6701:

It’s reasonable to assume that the airship will remain available at whatever future hub exists, as they are selling permanent passes for it. It would make little sense to sell a permanent pass to a temporary area.

With the kind of incompetence and malice people are throwing at ANet over this, I am surprised nobody suggested this is, in fact, The Plan.

I did think of that as a remote possibility, but I don’t think Anet is dumb enough to attempt that stunt. The backlash for selling a permanent pass, then removing the area it allows access to would just be far too severe. Only the most rabid of fanboys would support such a move.

It would cause quite the amusing kittenstorm, but I just don’t see that one happening.

If people are trying to sell me on the idea they knowingly created this whole thing as a means of going “premium” routes to keep taking away conveniences permanently? Why, then, isn’t this plausible?

It winds up amusing me people stop shy of a point when trying to say how evil and money-grubbing this is. If they were, this would be the case. (And I’ve seen it in other F2P games I played. I could name one company whose products are nice but otherwise marred by premium currency stuff.)

What’s worse, they now aren’t going to touch this with a ten foot pole because this topic is getting as radioactive as the Watchwork Pick topics which were incredibly overblown and also relied on assuming malice and total incompetence.

I mean, ArenaNet is kind of sloppy when it comes to foresight and seeing what players are going to do with something they create (Perma-SF, exhibit A) . . . but far from the total incompetence attributed to them. And while they have some really weird priorities sometimes, and an odd definition of “fun” (No way HM Rotwing is “fun” enough to justify doing) but they don’t ever strike me as totally malicious.

I mean, except for Tribulation Mode. They could have made those clouds give middle fingers instead of pushing hands instead.

Puro.8501:

Wow, just wow. I cant believe people are complaining over something that’s already available in the game.

Luxury?
I paid for this game. Arenanet has chosen to remove a long standing convenience to make it premium, so this game is actually becoming closer to a freemium model (minus the initial and not so negligible payment). I wouldn’t mind shelling bucks for real permanent content, but this is a business practice I don’t like at all. Narrative devices are only that: narrative devices.

When you tell a story you take decisions, and those decisions contribute to the narrative, which is an artificial construct. A seemingly unimportant decision such as keeping the Mystic Forge far from crafting stations (or more inconvenient than before, and that’s undeniable no matter how little you consider hassle) has a rationale that doesn’t come from narrative, but from business decisions. Thinking differently is dumb.

Being unhappy about such decisions when they’re damaging you is normal, even healthy. I think you’re much too adapted to this game to understand the underlying reality. Hint: taking a look at NCSoft’s pre-GW2 financial information (especially the Arenanet sections) could help you understand how much GW business model was costing.

I expect more and more of this stuff to keep this hybrid business model viable, and that’s a negative outlook for me.

just a point to all the people who don’t agree with these types of convenient items remember all the kittenbags who do pay for them are actually funding the game for the whole community, so don’t discourage them, encourage them!

Aidenwolf.5964:

Had Anet simply added Mystic Forges to the other cities along with activities hubs (you know, the only things LA had that capitol cities don’t) there would have been no issue.

Mystic forge, dungeon vendors and Fractals entrance, to be more precise. And yes, they should have done that long ago.

Did people really just manage to discuss about the airship pass for 8 pages? Did I miss something?

Everything you could “only” find in LA is to be found in Vigil Keep (like e.g. Mystic Forge – if you didn’t already use the one in the Mists). Everything else is available elsewhere. If you step through the Rata Sum portal (also available in Vigil Keep) you have crafting stations, all conveniently placed in the exactly same distance from Rata Sum’s centre (where you can find TP and bank). I always preferred these crafting stations over the marathon necessary in LA in order to get from A (e.g. TP) to B (worst case: tailor station).

I can only recommend giving it a try – especially to those complaining about trivial things like a convenience item instead of just moving their character for some inches.

Edited by Moderator

I find it strange that some people are trying to defend Anet on this.
The fact is that a popular convenience has been removed from the game and placed behind a paywall. That is not in dispute even by the most avid fanboy.

In Real-Life, something like this would not be tolerated by any population. Imagine the government decided you had to pay for a licence to access services on the internet.
’It’s only a minor inconvenience – you can still go shopping in town and visit the library for information etc.’ Can you imagine the uproar?

The message is for Anet. It should be clear and unequivocal. It’s only a pity some people are so dumb that they prefer not to serve their own best interest.

If they really permanently removed LA convenience just to bring it back as a premium feature it might me make think what game i plan to spend my time in the future more carrefully. I know they need to make money and all, but i won’t get milked.

So far i’ve abandoned all MMO’s that tryed to milk me or gave me the feeling of getting milked. I’ll do the same to GW2 if they go that route.

Shame on you ArenaNet you just long a huge chunk of respect i had for you.

Lord Kuru.3685:

My reading of the patch notes says that crafting will be available in this airship — but not at the vigil keep.

They’re not even making an effort to be sneaky or subtle about it anymore.

Why is this a problem? Crafting is available ~everywhere, including the major cities and WvW.

I mean, it’s not like things are any further spread apart really. I got most of my chars in Rata Sum, which is a pretty awesome place to do crafting in, and also pretty pretty. :P

Carighan.6758:

Lord Kuru.3685:

My reading of the patch notes says that crafting will be available in this airship — but not at the vigil keep.

They’re not even making an effort to be sneaky or subtle about it anymore.

Why is this a problem? Crafting is available ~everywhere, including the major cities and WvW.

I mean, it’s not like things are any further spread apart really. I got most of my chars in Rata Sum, which is a pretty awesome place to do crafting in, and also pretty pretty. :P

Your statement is false. The only location in Tyria where all services, vendors, and activities NPCs which were contained in Lion’s Arch exist is now locked on a ship accessible only via passes (please note that I did not embellish this statement by saying paid passes, as I’m aware the passes drop as well). So in fact, and in direct contradiction to your stement, things are further spread out.

Contiguous.1345:

I find it strange that some people are trying to defend Anet on this.
The fact is that a popular convenience has been removed from the game and placed behind a paywall. That is not in dispute even by the most avid fanboy.

I still don’t see the “paywall” everyone is talking about, given the fact that all the services are still available. Instead of clicking the pass, you can use a single Asura portal – so you don’t even have to put additional effort into accessing the services. This has nothing to do with fan girling over ArenaNet but simply with seeing some basic connections that seem to escape some people’s notices here. It seems some have never played games where there are real paywalls and P2W models (or it’s just too long ago to remember?). Lucky you.

Contiguous.1345:

In Real-Life, something like this would not be tolerated by any population. Imagine the government decided you had to pay for a licence to access services on the internet.
’It’s only a minor inconvenience – you can still go shopping in town and visit the library for information etc.’ Can you imagine the uproar?

The message is for Anet. It should be clear and unequivocal. It’s only a pity some people are so dumb that they prefer not to serve their own best interest.

I would understand the “uproar” if you had to run all the way from Gendarran to Rata Sum (or any other city) in order to access these services what would be the closest to the example above. But that’s not the case. Therefore this is a very strange comparison (even ignoring the fact that you are comparing RL to a game)… Btw.: calling people dumb because they don’t share your interests doesn’t make your statement more valid nor does it make it more valuable in any way.

Astralporing.1957:

Rayti.6531:

Did people really just manage to discuss about the airship pass for 8 pages? Did I miss something – like devs invading player’s homes and forcing them with a gun to buy the pass?

No, they only installed a lock on our shower (key to which we can borrow from them for a price). This is apparently not a problem, because we can still go and shower in our neighbour’s house however.

Well… if the neighbour is good looking, why not. He even has a whirlpool! I don’t miss my shower at all.

Jokes aside – I guess it’s useless discussing this. As I already said I always used the crafting stations in Rata Sum. LA was too crowded and the different services were too much spread over the map for my taste – so I simply don’t miss it (as a hub – but as a city with its architecture/art I miss it). So I already was “showering at my neighbour’s house”

I see the pass as a convenience item I will never buy, because I already have the same convenience elsewhere. If walking through an Asura portal is too much work, then buying the pass would be an option. All I tried to do with my post was, to make people aware of the fact that there are more than enough other options apart from buying the ticket.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Your statement is false. The only location in Tyria where all services, vendors, and activities NPCs which were contained in Lion’s Arch exist is now locked on a ship accessible only via passes (please note that I did not embellish this statement by saying paid passes, as I’m aware the passes drop as well). So in fact, and in direct contradiction to your stement, things are further spread out.

How is it further spread out?
Say I am in Rata Sum. I can do everything there except access a Mystic Forge. Should I need it (which is actually rather rare, if you consider your average day), I can either take a portal to the Vigil’s Keep and the forge is right next to the exit, or even faster join WvW (hey, a reason to migrate off T1! :P ).

In both cases I can just as quickly get back to Rata Sum.
Due to the rather inefficient layout of LA’s services, this does not take more time, despite the extra loading screen to the MF. Seriously, try it. Rata Sum (and supposedly Grove) are faster for your daily life. You take slightly more time for the MF, but you don’t go there enough to make it take less time if you had used LA.

I think you’re mostly complaining because it’s the cool thing now. You don’t seem to ever have tried what you’re doing.

Secondary point:
The whole point of this attack was to inconvenience the players. This is a way an antagonist can become just that: Do something the players mind. Scarlet took your LA! Your all-in-one-place place. Sure, it wasn’t actually the best spot for it, but she still took it, and from your posts you do mind that.
So why is it a bad thing? I thought we were all complaining that Scarlet didn’t do anything for us to hate her? She did now.

Contiguous.1345:

I find it strange that some people are trying to defend Anet on this.
The fact is that a popular convenience has been removed from the game and placed behind a paywall. That is not in dispute even by the most avid fanboy.

I find your reasoning on this absurd.
People have to be idiots or fanbois to disagree on this, right?

Let me try my reasoning:

1. We complained and complained that Scarlet is a bad antagonist.
2. One of the earliest suggestions to improve her was to make her do something we as players (not the characters) would dislike.
3. ANet listened.

I am actually really happy they did this. Seriously. This was the way to give Scarlet’s actions some weight, take the capital city of the game away.

Now, I understand your problem however is that you can buy a “LA 2.0” from the gem store? In that case, aren’t you a few months late?

• The Royal Terrace has been in the game for a while now.
• Total time needed for city actions is less if you park in Rata Sum and zone over to the Vigil Keep for MF usage. Seriously, try it! It’s less total time needed.

In short, I really fail to see the problem here. They didn’t actually make us use more time, they made us feel as if we did, with the loading screen. At the same time they did something to make us seriously dislike Scarlet, something we specifically asked for time and time again.

Are you in the end just angry at the “newbie trap” of the gem store ticket, trapping players who think they need it? Laughable as that notion would be?

LA was set up as a central hub. You could travel there from any location completely free.
That might not have been the intention because it involved passing through the mists. Nevertheless, it was a fact. It made the LA services particularly convenient so almost everyone used them as a home location.

Now, the same travel system links to a location where those services are unavailable without payment.

There is no option to relocate in such a way as to retain the convenience. You simply cannot travel to Rata Sum or any other city from a random location by means of free gates.

Contiguous.1345:

-Snip-
You simply cannot travel to Rata Sum or any other city from a random location by means of free gates.

1.) Take the Mists Express to Gendarran
2.) Take the Asura Gate to Rata Sum
= Free Access to Rata Sum and it takes just as long as coming out at the Mists Asura Portal in LA and then waypointing to the crafting stations in LA

Your point being?

EDIT: @Carighan.6758: Thanks for summarizing that once again. +1

To those saying it is only one waypoint/loadingscreen, imagine this.
I’m trying to get the legendary greatsword eternity. This means I need dusk and dawn. To do so im gathering a lot of mithril, elder wood and t5 mats. When i got enough I craft enough for bout 250 rare greatswords. Obviously, this doesnt fit in my inventory. So I craft the basic parts (blade/hilt/dowel) cause they are stackable and I make the first 50, run to the forge, forge them all, put the exotics I got in my private guildbank, and repeat. This means I need to keep changing from a town with the craftingstations to a town with the forge. This is not progress and not just one loadingscreen.

This thread is becoming a troll’s paradise. Fortunately. I think enough people have made the point.

I suggest the thread is quietly locked and Anet need to go away and think about what they’ve done.

Contiguous.1345:

and Anet need to go away and think about what they’ve done.

Listen to the community’s wishes? How dare they?!

mercury ranique.2170:

To those saying it is only one waypoint/loadingscreen, imagine this.
I’m trying to get the legendary greatsword eternity. This means I need dusk and dawn. To do so im gathering a lot of mithril, elder wood and t5 mats. When i got enough I craft enough for bout 250 rare greatswords. Obviously, this doesnt fit in my inventory. So I craft the basic parts (blade/hilt/dowel) cause they are stackable and I make the first 50, run to the forge, forge them all, put the exotics I got in my private guildbank, and repeat. This means I need to keep changing from a town with the craftingstations to a town with the forge. This is not progress and not just one loadingscreen.

I am assuming you don’t craft Eternity in a single sitting every day? That is to say, you do this once in your lifetime?
As such, why not just – you know, for the occasion – head into WvW? It even got the same things condensed in a smaller area than LA had. :P

And mind you, you have to cite the edge case of crafting Eternity (of all things) to make a case against this change. Do you realize how far-fetched your idea of an issue this creates is? How many players do you think are impacted how often by this, exactly?

Carighan.6758:

In short, I really fail to see the problem here.

Yes, it’s a failure, because you don’t consider this a problem of yours; and it isn’t since it doesn’t affect the way you play this game.

I think it’s a problem because it affects the way I play my game. If the same services were conveniently restored elsewhere and there was no ticket for an entrance to get what you had before I’d say that the story explanation provided in this thread by ArenaNet would hold up, but we all know it’s not this way. We all know there’s an entrance ticket. This is a business decision and the only way to deny such explanation would be to remove the entrance tickets (and this won’t happen) or restore services the way they were, and this will happen only if many people drop out of the game, and I consider also this event highly unlikely.

It may not a problem of yours but since I see this as a problem it’s a problem of mine. It’s a pity since I liked Guild Wars 2, but as someone else said in future games I play I’ll be more careful about choosing a company which doesn’t engage in business practices that I don’t agree with. And that doesn’t equate to consider Arenanet employess bad people or stupid people, although the “story” explanation provided in this thread by an Arenanet employee is one of the dumbest things I’ve read in my whole life (and I read a lot, including a lot of stupid stuff); and this isn’t even, like someone thinks, a moral question of good vs evil, it’s a question of what a single player can accept or not.

I may be swallowing Arenanet’s justifications or not, but it’s up to me to decide whether I consider this move a bad signal or not, and for me this is the worst premonition of bad things to come as of now, and I’m not referring to poor story lines.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

If people are trying to sell me on the idea they knowingly created this whole thing as a means of going “premium” routes to keep taking away conveniences permanently? Why, then, isn’t this plausible?

It winds up amusing me people stop shy of a point when trying to say how evil and money-grubbing this is. If they were, this would be the case. (And I’ve seen it in other F2P games I played. I could name one company whose products are nice but otherwise marred by premium currency stuff.)

What’s worse, they now aren’t going to touch this with a ten foot pole because this topic is getting as radioactive as the Watchwork Pick topics which were incredibly overblown and also relied on assuming malice and total incompetence.

I think there is a decent gap between this, and how bad yanking the airship out at a later date would be. Selling a permanent pass to what ended up being a temporary service could have some valid claims of false advertisement, etc. There’s nothing dishonest or misdirecting about the Vigil Keep and airship, but I can’t say the same for that potential stunt. Which is why I don’t see that as being very likely to happen. They’ve made some stupid decisions, but I don’t think they are that stupid.

The watchwork pick I think was a mistake, but it’s not as bad as it’s made it out to be. I don’t even think it’s to the same level as the airship decision. It’s a bit worse if you take new players into consideration, because they won’t have access to sprockets in their home instance. We won’t really see how much of a problem it might be till (or if) the supply of sprockets dries up and people with home instance nodes and/or watchwork picks become the only source of the material.

What is going to happen once you find out that the airship pass is even better than Lion’s Arch ever was, since you do not need to go through the mists first in order to get there, saving another loading screen? Even without the destruction of Lion’s Arch it would be convenience behind a paywall.

So all of this is not about convenience behind a paywall but about taking away a small bit of convenience and putting it behind a paywall. And you sense the end of the world because even the Noachian deluge started with single rain drops.

I see your reasoning but I think this game has larger problems than this. However I do not get why ANet keep hurting themselves with debatable moves like this one.

Alex.9567:

just a point to all the people who don’t agree with these types of convenient items remember all the kittenbags who do pay for them are actually funding the game for the whole community, so don’t discourage them, encourage them!

There are plenty of items in the gemstore to buy and support the game. They’ve added over $50 worth of items between this week and last week, not including these passes. I’ve bought plenty of gemstore items myself, using both cash-bought gems and gold-bought gems. Even the gold-bought gems are still supporting the game because the exchange market is fueled by the cash purchases of gems.

It’s not about not supporting the game, it’s about not supporting the removal of previously free conveniences for the sake of monetizing them. What if it was the bank, or the TP, was that missing from Vigil Keep and hidden away in the airship? Those are still available in every other city, but I think more people would be bothered by them being missing. Fewer people would care if it was just the laurel vendor. I think their choice of services to remove and place there was deliberate in order to ‘test the water’.

To me, it doesn’t matter which NPCs/services they’ve removed from the central hub, it’s the fact that they think removing any formerly free convenience and putting it in the gemstore is acceptable.

Halvorn.9831:

I see your reasoning but I think this game has larger problems than this. However I do not get why ANet keep hurting themselves with debatable moves like this one.

Because we as players wanted them to destroy LA?

Carighan.6758:

Halvorn.9831:

I see your reasoning but I think this game has larger problems than this. However I do not get why ANet keep hurting themselves with debatable moves like this one.

Because we as players wanted them to destroy LA?

Did that force them to introduce this air ship and not provide crafting stations in the new central hub?

Azure Prower.8701:

I bet those loading screens make the game fun.

/facepalm

Yeah, let’s ignore the extra long loading times that LA always had and the bad layout, making you waste a lot more time compared to other cities where everything is basically right next to each other.

You’re being a hypocrite.

Halvorn.9831:

Did that force them to introduce this air ship and not provide crafting stations in the new central hub?

They never said Vigil Keep was going to be the new central hub. Stop making stuff up to justify your irrational anger.

Rangersix.1754:

They never said Vigil Keep was going to be the new central hub. Stop making stuff up to justify your irrational anger.

It is the central hub right now…

That may not be permanent, but the fact remains that is currently the central hub.

mrstealth.6701:

Rangersix.1754:

They never said Vigil Keep was going to be the new central hub. Stop making stuff up to justify your irrational anger.

It is the central hub right now…

That may not be permanent, but the fact remains that is currently the central hub.

Rata Sum is a much better central hub. Always has been.

Only bads hung out in LA anyway.

I’m gonna state here again what I stated in my thread about the missing Laurel vendor.

There are people who play this game for the social aspect. There going to want to go to a place where they can do everything while talking to people. Now, instead of going to Lion’s Arch, they’re going to go to Rata Sum, OR Divinity’s Reach, OR Ebonhawke, OR The Grove, OR Hoelbrak, et cetera.

They are not going to buy an airship pass and congregate on the airship, as was ANet’s intention.

ANet knows that people gather in Lion’s Arch, and they felt they should try to capitalize on that. Which is fair to a point – the game needs to make money. But not at the risk of angering players.

The airship differs from the Royal Terrace in that they did not REMOVE crafting and laurels from Divinity’s Reach.

This is a test to see if people would pay to get to the other services from LA rather than go to other cities. This could be because the Royal Terrace experiment didn’t work, and they could be playing with the idea of taking these conveniences out of every city (For example, you can craft in Rata Sum, but to use the trading post, you have to go to the Grove. And if you want a bank, you have to go to Ebonhawke.) But for the low price of $10, you can permanently access everything in one convenient place!

The problem is, if people don’t protest, ANet won’t know that this idea of theirs is BAD. If people essentially roll over and take it, ANet will shrug and (rightfully) pursue this avenue of moneymaking it’s discovered. It’s our responsibility to let ANet know when they’ve done something unacceptable.

To quote Simon from Firefly.

“This isn’t fear. This is anger.”

Carighan.6758:

I am assuming you don’t craft Eternity in a single sitting every day? That is to say, you do this once in your lifetime?
As such, why not just – you know, for the occasion – head into WvW? It even got the same things condensed in a smaller area than LA had. :P

And mind you, you have to cite the edge case of crafting Eternity (of all things) to make a case against this change. Do you realize how far-fetched your idea of an issue this creates is? How many players do you think are impacted how often by this, exactly?

First off, this effects anybody that is combining crafted materials with mystic forge.
The second is that I think nobody should recommend using WvW for crafting purposes. The first reason is that it is not convininent. For your home borderlands the crafting stations are in your citadel and the forge in the forward keep. The second and more important reason is that WvW maps have a limitation of amount of people there. If you are there you are supposed to fight for your world. I’m not one of those selfish people letting my world down by claiming my spot to craft there.