Romance Repetition

Romance Repetition

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: Kal Spiro.9745

Kal Spiro.9745

We do have quaggan rommance, it started during the Tower LS

Yes. But it was not pushed in our faces where we are FORCED to watch in order to progress through the living story and personal story.

Do you feel forced and embarrassed whenever a kiss scene in any movie pops up?

Only if the kiss doesn’t seem appropriate to the situation in which it’s occurring. This wasn’t that case. We’ve known how they felt about each other for a long while now. We knew that Kasmeer was very nervous by virtue of her hiccups. Marjory was severing injured and Kasmeer kind of lost it for a bit. When it turns out Marjory made it the only reasonable conclusion was exactly what happened.

I’ll admit I didn’t expect the tight close up with funny faces, but whatever.

Tarnished Coast Kal Spiro – Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/WS #SABorRiot
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker

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Posted by: timmyf.1490

timmyf.1490

I’m a 29-year old man with a 25-year old girlfriend and we’ve both been cheering KasJory on this whole time. Those two are adorable.

http://less-l.deviantart.com/art/I-SAID-BLACK-432529661

Karaoke – Guild Leader – [MEGA] Super Mega Happy Fun Time
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

Fair point CharrGirl.
I think the only thing which annoyed me (a tiny amount, it’s really minor) is that it felt a bit as if not everyone got that they were a couple, so they had to make it really obvious. I might be overthinking it, though.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

can’t breathe….. laughing too hard…

One little kiss…. one in a heated moment where she was thankful the person she loves wasn’t actually dead and you’re all up in arms (again I might add)!

Oh come on! So what if they are both female. It was a touching moment! Something to help you connect with the characters in the sense that they have depth and emotion. Instead we get “omg yuck cooties!” type responses.

“I don’t like to see any romance in the main plot” I hope you don’t watch television outside of very young children’s cartoons then. Or read anything except very simple children’s books. Or play any game that has any even remote story. Even simple hack and slash console games have romance in their character plots, more often than not.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

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Posted by: Kal Spiro.9745

Kal Spiro.9745

can’t breathe….. laughing too kittene little kiss…. one in a heated moment where she was thankful the person she loves wasn’t actually dead and you’re all up in arms (again I might add)!

Oh come on! So what if they are both female. It was a touching moment! Something to help you connect with the characters in the sense that they have depth and emotion. Instead we get “omg yuck cooties!” type responses.

“I don’t like to see any romance in the main plot” I hope you don’t watch television outside of very young children’s cartoons then. Or read anything except very simple children’s books. Or play any game that has any even remote story. Even simple hack and slash console games have romance in their character plots, more often than not.

Play the new Lara Croft, there’s a lot of story without any romance at all. That should fit the bill.

Tarnished Coast Kal Spiro – Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/WS #SABorRiot
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

So what if there hasn’t been a hetero romance in the main story. This new romance is really the only active relationship anyways since Caithe and Faolan have only been introduce as exes.

Who care what gender the partners in the romance are anyways. The story and romance itself are really well done and if it wasn’t for culture shock over two girls kissing, there wouldn’t be any of this complaining going on.

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

can’t breathe….. laughing too kittene little kiss…. one in a heated moment where she was thankful the person she loves wasn’t actually dead and you’re all up in arms (again I might add)!

Oh come on! So what if they are both female. It was a touching moment! Something to help you connect with the characters in the sense that they have depth and emotion. Instead we get “omg yuck cooties!” type responses.

“I don’t like to see any romance in the main plot” I hope you don’t watch television outside of very young children’s cartoons then. Or read anything except very simple children’s books. Or play any game that has any even remote story. Even simple hack and slash console games have romance in their character plots, more often than not.

Play the new Lara Croft, there’s a lot of story without any romance at all. That should fit the bill.

chuckle

Hadn’t played that one yet. I suppose they could play Call of Duty and other FPS games as well. Shouldn’t be any romance there.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

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Posted by: Laurelinde.4395

Laurelinde.4395

Of course it is going to ‘feel’ political to a lot of people. Right now (in the US, at least), being gay is a political issue because the debate on gay marriage is in full swing. How must it feel for LGBTQ+ people who are just trying to live their lives and are constantly being told that doing so is pushing an agenda?

Honestly, this thread has come up over and over and over again and there don’t seem to be a lot of arguments apart from ‘I don’t like romance, it makes me feel icky…I mean, feel nothing because I don’t have feelings because feelings are weak!‘, or ’why not equal time for straight people?’ which is both cherry-picking (since there are plenty of straight relationships in the game, as well as non-sexual ones) and honestly, kind of on the same lines as ‘why is there no white history month?’ When things start off unequal, equality is going to feel unfair for awhile for the bigger group.

To my knowledge this is the only kiss scene that’s been in the game. Caithe and Faolain are fairly prominent but the relationship is finished before we even get into character creation, and I would argue that the Queen and Logan get pretty comparable time and importance dedicated to them, seeing as it is touched on during the personal story with regards to the breaking of Destiny’s Edge, during Caudecus’ Manor and then again during Queen’s Jubilee.

I’m not going to say that the Kas/Jory relationship has been written as one of the great love stories of all the ages or anything, but I wouldn’t say that about most of the lore thus far (or in most games full stop.) For me at least it hasn’t felt desperately fanservicey or contrived, their dialogue has shown them as having been friends for awhile with romantic interest flirted around and finally confirmed when things got rough and their lives were in danger. No big deal.

There are always going to be things in the game that one or other of us doesn’t love. But if Anet end up trying to perfectly recreate real-world demographics, or run through a strict cycle of genders, races, orientations, etc. to mathematically give every possible group even screen time in order to placate some players’ need for ‘equality’ and silence naysayers, is that really any less ‘political’ than anything they’re doing now? Because ‘the mainstream being heterosexual’ (or white, or male, or able-bodied, or religious/non-religious, depending on where you live) is political, too.

Laurelinde & Cookie/Beorna Bearheart
[TWG] – Gunnar’s Hold
Always remember Wheaton’s Law

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

~ Snip ~
it feels like it’s a social agenda being pushed.

I don’t like social agendas in my entertainment. I just want to be entertained, not proselytized to.

Here’s the problem: You’re building a social agenda out of this, so don’t blame the writers.

You may like the same stale trope-filled stories with copy-cat characters and if so, that’s fine. However, ArenaNet has been thinking outside the canned-story box. Just because that includes same-sex relationships doesn’t mean that you’re a victim of some liberal agenda.

If you’re telling us that there needs to be a central heterosexual relationship for this story to be valid, then the only rhetorical agenda at play here is yours.

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Posted by: X The Manimal.5293

X The Manimal.5293

So what if there hasn’t been a hetero romance in the main story. This new romance is really the only active relationship anyways since Caithe and Faolan have only been introduce as exes.

Who care what gender the partners in the romance are anyways. The story and romance itself are really well done and if it wasn’t for culture shock over two girls kissing, there wouldn’t be any of this complaining going on.

You missed the point. It’s not about a kiss or embrace or 10 seconds of a cutscene… Posters brought up valid arguments concerning the poor treatment of key character relationships (even the lesbian sylvari one). Kasmeer and Marj are side characters. It is strange that ANet decided to bring them into the spotlight and have their relationship develop further than the others, especially given whats going on in the real world right now. That’s why it seems like a fan-service to me, not much care was taken with these side-characters. However that’s opinion. The writing was hit and miss for me.

But if you wish to view this post through a narrow cone then sure.

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

So what if there hasn’t been a hetero romance in the main story. This new romance is really the only active relationship anyways since Caithe and Faolan have only been introduce as exes.

Who care what gender the partners in the romance are anyways. The story and romance itself are really well done and if it wasn’t for culture shock over two girls kissing, there wouldn’t be any of this complaining going on.

You missed the point. It’s not about a kiss or embrace or 10 seconds of a cutscene… Posters brought up valid arguments concerning the poor treatment of key character relationships (even the lesbian sylvari one). Kasmeer and Marj are side characters. It’s just strange that ANet decided to bring them into the spotlight and have their relationship develop further than the others, especially given whats going on in the real world right now. That’s why it seems like a fan-service to me, not much care was taken with these side-characters.

But if you wish to view this post through a narrow cone then sure.

What??

They spent just as much time on Braham and Rox in that scene and this certainly isn’t the first time they explained what is going on between Marjory and Kasmeer or how their relationship developed. If you don’t know how this relationship sprung up, then you haven’t been paying attention to the story.

The reality is, if this were a guy and a girl kissing, they wouldn’t need to put any story or plot or reasoning into the kiss. If this were a guy and a girl that kissed, even if they never hinted at any romance between them, this wouldn’t have caused a stir because of the pervasive hetero-normative perspective that any main male and female character in a story are really just a romance waiting to happen anyways.

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: timmyf.1490

timmyf.1490

If you don’t like Kas and Jory, that’s fine. You’re allowed to think the writing is poor or the story doesn’t make sense or it’s pandering to the audience.

What doesn’t seem right is complaining that there are now two lesbian relationships in game – seemingly at the expense of hetero relationships – when there are tons of hetero relationships that are being ignored. Including one in the Living Story that’s been just as much fun to follow: Penelopee and Bloomanoo.

A laser-focus on one particular piece – the lesbian relationship – while having blinders to the rest of the game and then crying oppression? That makes quaggan angry.

Karaoke – Guild Leader – [MEGA] Super Mega Happy Fun Time
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: Kal Spiro.9745

Kal Spiro.9745

So what if there hasn’t been a hetero romance in the main story. This new romance is really the only active relationship anyways since Caithe and Faolan have only been introduce as exes.

Who care what gender the partners in the romance are anyways. The story and romance itself are really well done and if it wasn’t for culture shock over two girls kissing, there wouldn’t be any of this complaining going on.

You missed the point. It’s not about a kiss or embrace or 10 seconds of a cutscene… Posters brought up valid arguments concerning the poor treatment of key character relationships (even the lesbian sylvari one). Kasmeer and Marj are side characters. It is strange that ANet decided to bring them into the spotlight and have their relationship develop further than the others, especially given whats going on in the real world right now. That’s why it seems like a fan-service to me, not much care was taken with these side-characters. However that’s opinion. The writing was hit and miss for me.

But if you wish to view this post through a narrow cone then sure.

Define side characters? In Guild Wars the players are side characters and the NPCs are main characters. Majory is a main character. She was the one responsible for finding out who murdered the Council member. She was front and center for the Toxic spores. She was the one that brought everything together to figure out Scarlet’s plan. Kasmeer is her sidekick so you could define her as a secondary character, but Marjory is not.

Tarnished Coast Kal Spiro – Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/WS #SABorRiot
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: Luke.4562

Luke.4562

Next incoming, Elder Dragon romance!

ALPHA, BETA, several months, … 1 Year later…“When it’s ready”[cit.]

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Posted by: Lilith Ajit.6173

Lilith Ajit.6173

Next incoming, Elder Dragon romance!

#10/10WouldWatch

[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

Kasmeer and Marj are side characters.

Majory is the character of the new Destiny’s Edge and the whole Living Story. Remember the early parts of it, where you had to fetch her and she had that scene with Logan and all that?

She’s pretty much the primary NPC right now, at least post-Scarlet. Kasmeer as her GF being the second-in-importance, ofc.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Rezz.8019

Rezz.8019

I think their whole relationship is just a product of lack of creativity. It was an easy way to write something “different.” But yeah… even now I have no feeling about those characters at all. They are not deep enough. I hope that Anet guys learned from all of this and will work on improving their writing skills.

The kiss was completely unnecessary and pushed. A hug would have been perfect for that situation.

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Posted by: Luke.4562

Luke.4562

+1
Agree. All the plots from GW2 are like this. Useless events to give meaning to a mass of other useless events.

It’s just a superficial work to show they’re doing something, but making approximative things like this just ruin the game more than it is. Mainly filling the story with traditional and overrated cliches.

Regarding the lesbian relationship, it’s just an exploit to give some highlight to the yet sterile plot.
Just like the false destruction of Lion’s Arch. Which will be reconstructed soon.

A big boom to fill that void that the plot was filled with.

PS: It seems that the actual plot writers are a lot influenced by the current tendencies.
Dragon Ball resurrections, video games save-reset-restart, heavy facts happens but then there aren’t consequences or they’re so light they’re ignored.
So they have to bring in a groundbreaker event to make people shake.

Nice way of writing and using your fantasy..

All of this is the meal for a low brained public.

ALPHA, BETA, several months, … 1 Year later…“When it’s ready”[cit.]

(edited by Luke.4562)

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Posted by: Taygus.4571

Taygus.4571

meh,
I was just annoyed that we HAD to watch the story. (the lesbian couple didn’t bother me) The whole thing was boring.
All the personal stories have a “skip to end” option, why not this one?

On the couple thing; was it necessary at all to have a couple scene? It so cliche. “Lover might be dead!!…oh no look, lover is alive!!!” ..
It’s like, someone went ‘hey, thats been done far too many times, can’t have a story like that …wait!..I know, lets make the lovers lesbians! That should make it interesting’

(edited by Taygus.4571)

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Posted by: timmyf.1490

timmyf.1490

The kiss was completely unnecessary and pushed. A hug would have been perfect for that situation.

“Oh hey, person I’ve grown to love over time, in small ways at first, but now truly and deeply, who just rushed in to capture the person responsible for destroying a great city and was knocked out, who I thought was dead, taken from me suddenly, who now has just woken up in my arms…

Hug time! Glad you’re still with me, pal!"

Karaoke – Guild Leader – [MEGA] Super Mega Happy Fun Time
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org

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Posted by: Kal Spiro.9745

Kal Spiro.9745

The kiss was completely unnecessary and pushed. A hug would have been perfect for that situation.

“Oh hey, person I’ve grown to love over time, in small ways at first, but now truly and deeply, who just rushed in to capture the person responsible for destroying a great city and was knocked out, who I thought was dead, taken from me suddenly, who now has just woken up in my arms…

Hug time! Glad you’re still with me, pal!"

+1

Good going, pal

Tarnished Coast Kal Spiro – Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/WS #SABorRiot
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker

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Posted by: CC Danicia.1394

CC Danicia.1394

Community Coordinator

Next

Hello all,

We’ve done some minor edits to some posts to keep the down the sarcastic responses and thinly-veiled insults. Please remember to debate the topic and not take it personal. The thread will remain open as long as the conversation stays respectful. Thank you.

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Posted by: timmyf.1490

timmyf.1490

Look, I just want to add that I personally don’t see much evidence that the OP is homophobic. Or that the posters here defending him are homophobic. I think that’s a pretty strong word and we shouldn’t just casually toss it around.

What I do think is that you are privileged. As am I – a white, college-educated, straight male.

What do I mean by privileged? Specifically, in this case: a relationship which mirrors the kind that I would have in real-life can be represented in game without being seen as social activism or social commentary.

When we make a big deal over this sort of thing, we’re sending small, (I assume) painful messages to people who are already marginalized that the behavior or choices they find most natural are somehow unnatural, strange, unwanted, or wrong.

For my LGBT friends who constantly have to deal with this nonsense: don’t let the kittens grind you down. <3

Karaoke – Guild Leader – [MEGA] Super Mega Happy Fun Time
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

Look, I just want to add that I personally don’t see much evidence that the OP is homophobic. Or that the posters here defending him are homophobic. I think that’s a pretty strong word and we shouldn’t just casually toss it around.

What I do think is that you are privileged. As am I – a white, college-educated, straight male.

What do I mean by privileged? Specifically, in this case: a relationship which mirrors the kind that I would have in real-life can be represented in game without being seen as social activism or social commentary.

When we make a big deal over this sort of thing, we’re sending small, (I assume) painful messages to people who are already marginalized that the behavior or choices they find most natural are somehow unnatural, strange, unwanted, or wrong.

For my LGBT friends who constantly have to deal with this nonsense: don’t let the kittens grind you down. <3

I wish I could have put it as eloquently as this ^

Well said.

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Posted by: Shpongle.6025

Shpongle.6025

So, now we have had TWO prominent lesbian romances:

1. Caithe and Faolin
2. Marjory and Kasmeer

And no heterosexual romances “in the spotlight,” or other species, or….
I’m not saying they don’t exist. We have the backdrop romance of Logan and the Queen, for instance, and the two cooing quaggans in the refugee camp, together since the Tower of Nightmares.

But none of them have had much spotlight. But now we have had two that seemed to get more spotlight than the rest, both lesbian romances.

To preface my own personal attitude and to hopefully deflect accusations of homophobia, I could’t care LESS what someone’s sexual proclivities are, as long as the people are all consenting adults. I’ve been friends with homosexuals, swingers, BDSMers, the list goes on and on.

But I also know that the mainstream IS heterosexual. And having now TWO lesbian romances back to back in the stories as the closest thing to a spotlight romance does now raise my eyebrow: it feels like it’s a social agenda being pushed.

I don’t like social agendas in my entertainment. I just want to be entertained, not proselytized to.

So why now two of these in a row? If the story writers were just trying to write something “different,” they could have mixed it up. Why not a romance in a different species, or in BETWEEN two species? For example, Braham and Rox!

I’d love to see a quaggan/skritt romance, just because I think it would be hysterical.

I’m just saying, it seems/feels now after two of these prominent that its a social commentary. If not, why two of these back to back? If so, well, please, we don’t need to have a social commentary shoved down our throats. Just entertain us, and if adding in romances, remember who the MAJORITY is, or at least mix it up with other romances, such as the type we would not normally see.

Norn/quaggan? Human Charr? Golem/Asura? :-D

And actually, someone else I saw posted here they felt the lesbian scenes weren’t for a social agenda but for the pandering to the “fanboy” out there, and why didn’t he get to have two men in a romance? His question, not mine, but I did find it an interesting one.

Anyway. I’m just saying. As a hetero male myself, who DOESNT find lesbian porn interesting, I’m interested in hetero romances, not homosexual ones… or romances that we couldnt see in the real world. Have one lesbian romance if you need it, but please remember that the majority of people ARE hetero, and we would like to have our interests “pandered” to as well.

And it doesn’t mean we are homophobic. We just happen to have our own interests in what we like.

Heck, last time I saw the two quaggans at the refugee camp, the female quaggan, on saying she hated scarlet and wished she would DIE, I thought she sounded borderline ready to transform to that Piranha Hulk state that I thought it would have been cool for her to show up ready to chew on Scarlet some!

(as a side note, I did find it interesting that Marjory appeared not lesbian, but pansexual; she appeared to flirt with anything that moved; I would have found it far more interesting if she DID flirt with just about everything, and thus took more time to get closer to Kasmeer, maybe even have some friction about it in the beginning…. and Scarlet’s crack about dating Caithe in the Aetherblade dungeon was hysterical too! )

And here I’m concerned that the politically correct crowd is going to attack me for this post… but like I said, I don’t care about people’s proclivities in general… after all, I have a “proclivity” that I’m not going to discuss here. I just think that two in a row for a game like this is a bit odd and eyebrow-raising. Next storyline, think we can steer away from a third repetition and give us something a little different?

I think it’s sweet and that french kiss was steaming hot too, at the end scene in Scarlet’s end. Instant kitten.

Are you Shpongled?

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Posted by: elfycara.1572

elfycara.1572

Heterosexuality may be mainstream and the norm in real life but who knows what sexuality is like in Tyria? Everybody could be aggressively bisexual so having a lot of homosexual relationships wouldn’t really be seen as uncommon.

Also, heterosexuality is already well represented in the media so why does it matter that this game chooses to have two homosexual relationships? Although, I would agree with the other user who said the Caithe/Faolain relationship is more in the background.

That being said I do agree with some of the other users that the whole romance subplot was handled a little sloppily but I expect that was due to time constraints mostly.

I much prefer Peneloopee and Bloomanoo as a romantic subplot though

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Posted by: Archdruidess.5143

Archdruidess.5143

I enjoy the romances! Besides, there’s Logan and Jenna and… the unspoken Logan/Rytlock bromance. (I also agree about the Quaggans!) There’s nothing wrong with a little romance in the plot. I also took a screenshot of the Kasmeer/Jory cutscene to share with my gamer friend and her girlfriend – it might convince her to give GW2 a try!

Also wouldn’t mind a little romance for my character… lookin’ at you Faren and Ihan.

(edited by Archdruidess.5143)

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Posted by: Lilith Ajit.6173

Lilith Ajit.6173

I enjoy the romances! Besides, there’s Logan and Jenna and… the unspoken Logan/Rytlock bromance. (I also agree about the Quaggans!) There’s nothing wrong with a little romance in the plot. I also took a screenshot of that cutscene to share with my gamer friend and her girlfriend – it might convince her to give GW2 a try!

Also wouldn’t mind a little romance for my character… lookin’ at you Faren and Ihan.

My Asura would have been a home wrecker to Tonn in a heartbeat.

#RIPTonn

[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.

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Posted by: HyruleanHyroe.1473

HyruleanHyroe.1473

It’s a relationship between 2 people. Should it matter whatever the sexes of the 2 are? Claiming to not be homophobic when making a homophobic point does not absolve the OP from being homophobic.

Race used to matter to people when it comes to relationships. Do you think it’s acceptable to question the race of 2 people in a relationship today?

Not taking sides, but clarifying: the point seems to be about highlighting the relationship. A game that placed excessively heavy emphasis on the biracial nature of a couple (or couples) could be considered heavy-handed, pandering, insincere, or racist. Not defending the OP, but the topic is variety in romantic focus, not the morality of a homosexual relationship.

I have a “band”, Beatiatrician: http://youtu.be/zw_Sl-El8_I

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Posted by: Morfedel.4165

Morfedel.4165

If you don’t like Kas and Jory, that’s fine. You’re allowed to think the writing is poor or the story doesn’t make sense or it’s pandering to the audience.

What doesn’t seem right is complaining that there are now two lesbian relationships in game – seemingly at the expense of hetero relationships – when there are tons of hetero relationships that are being ignored. Including one in the Living Story that’s been just as much fun to follow: Penelopee and Bloomanoo.

A laser-focus on one particular piece – the lesbian relationship – while having blinders to the rest of the game and then crying oppression? That makes quaggan angry.

It isn’t that those relationships exist. Its that the ones that get all the major focus have, thus far, been those relationships.

The two that have had the MOST focus in terms of romance are caithe/faolin and kasmeer/marjory. Some might argue that Logan/Jenna are as prominent, but I don’t think so; I think that’s more Logan/Rytlock with Jenna being the inflammatory point between them, and as such isn’t really about romance at all, but their love/hate friendship.

Anyone who cares to go back and look will see that I’ve said, several times now, that I LIKED the caithe/faolin storyline.

But I also feel that Caithe/Faolin and Marjory/kasmeer took more spotlight time in terms of romance than any other. The rest of the romantic relationships were backdrops, short personal stories, environmental, etc.

And as such, choosing to have not one but TWO lesbian relationships as the two that got more spotlight screentime seemed strange to me, and as such, potentially riddled with either fanboy service or political agenda.

Again, let me reiterate: I really enjoyed the caithe/faolin storyline. I didn’t care they were both, essentially, female (even if they are plants etc, it still amounts to the same thing), I didn’t care they were a “lesbian” couple, it was a fun story.

But when they have a second romantic relationship taking center stage centered around two females AGAIN, thats what made me begin to wonder what was going on.

It wasnt the fact they exist; its the fact that two in a row took more major screen time back to back.

(edited by Morfedel.4165)

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Posted by: Morfedel.4165

Morfedel.4165

Next incoming, Elder Dragon romance!

ok that would be cool lol

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Posted by: Morfedel.4165

Morfedel.4165

Look, I just want to add that I personally don’t see much evidence that the OP is homophobic. Or that the posters here defending him are homophobic. I think that’s a pretty strong word and we shouldn’t just casually toss it around.

What I do think is that you are privileged. As am I – a white, college-educated, straight male.

What do I mean by privileged? Specifically, in this case: a relationship which mirrors the kind that I would have in real-life can be represented in game without being seen as social activism or social commentary.

When we make a big deal over this sort of thing, we’re sending small, (I assume) painful messages to people who are already marginalized that the behavior or choices they find most natural are somehow unnatural, strange, unwanted, or wrong.

For my LGBT friends who constantly have to deal with this nonsense: don’t let the kittens grind you down. <3

Well, thanks for that. Let me ask you a question though: in a society where hetero relationships define the vast majority, isn’t it ok to be ok with ONE of these, but protest it when it’s two in a row?

I mean, as I said, the first one didnt bother me. the second did. So how would you define that?

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Posted by: timmyf.1490

timmyf.1490

But when they have a second romantic relationship taking center stage centered around two females AGAIN, thats what made me begin to wonder what was going on.

It wasnt the fact they exist; its the fact that two in a row took more major screen time back to back.

There are a variety of relationships in the Personal Story and in the Living World. If we just look at Living World, we have:

Hetero Romantic: Peneloopee/Bloomanoo, Faren/prettymucheverybody, Braham/Ottilia
kitten Romantic: KasJory
Hetero Non-Romantic: Rox/Braham, (hinted at) Braham/Taimi, Kiel/Magnus, Kasmeer/Faren
kitten Non-Romantic: KasJory before it moved to the other column, X-o-Tron/Marcello, Thorn/Edrick

There are many relationships and dynamics, it’s just that one of those pairs kissed in a cut scene.

Karaoke – Guild Leader – [MEGA] Super Mega Happy Fun Time
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org

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Posted by: Kitta.3657

Kitta.3657

I would have liked to see more male homosexual relationships but my gut feeling is gw2 player are just not going to take a male relationship as well as they will take a female one. It’s horrible but true I wish it was different.

There is a male Sylvari couple early in one of that race’s personal stories. I’ve never seen any objection about it.

Also, Rytlock and Logan are clearly the #1 couple in the game.

This is an old reply but I saw nobody reply to you. Actually there was a loooooot of qq threads (that literally was it, people complaining for no actual reason) about it while in beta and launch. People just got over it with time because they are further in the game’s story. The people that cared back then have either left or passed the phase in the story so are not “being shoved down their throats” the relationship between these two characters.

I am honestly afraid Anet could not have a canon male gay couple in the main cast without horrible homophobic backlash as we have already seen it happen. And the amount of complaints about Kasjory is even more telling that a loud minority of players can’t accept homosexual relationships as normal and demand “equality” (seriously? are you kidding me????). You [general you] are simply ignoring all of the heterosexual relationships because it is default in our society. Of course a queer relationship will stick out like a sore thumb to you because of the status of our media – you’re not used to it.

Empty complaints. What if the sole cast of characters were aaaaaaaaalllll gay and women???? Who cares. It’s not like the opposite (all male and hetero) is not something that happens in other games. The “acceptable” ratio you are wanting is actually already equitable and you are making a big deal out of n-o-t-h-i-n-g.

mouth too blunt, truth too loud

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Posted by: Morfedel.4165

Morfedel.4165

But when they have a second romantic relationship taking center stage centered around two females AGAIN, thats what made me begin to wonder what was going on.

It wasnt the fact they exist; its the fact that two in a row took more major screen time back to back.

There are a variety of relationships in the Personal Story and in the Living World. If we just look at Living World, we have:

Hetero Romantic: Peneloopee/Bloomanoo, Faren/prettymucheverybody, Braham/Ottilia
kitten Romantic: KasJory
Hetero Non-Romantic: Rox/Braham, (hinted at) Braham/Taimi, Kiel/Magnus, Kasmeer/Faren
kitten Non-Romantic: KasJory before it moved to the other column, X-o-Tron/Marcello, Thorn/Edrick

There are many relationships and dynamics, it’s just that one of those pairs kissed in a cut scene.

The romantic relationships that took center stage, however, have been pretty much one type.

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Posted by: Morfedel.4165

Morfedel.4165

I would have liked to see more male homosexual relationships but my gut feeling is gw2 player are just not going to take a male relationship as well as they will take a female one. It’s horrible but true I wish it was different.

There is a male Sylvari couple early in one of that race’s personal stories. I’ve never seen any objection about it.

Also, Rytlock and Logan are clearly the #1 couple in the game.

This is an old reply but I saw nobody reply to you. Actually there was a loooooot of qq threads (that literally was it, people complaining for no actual reason) about it while in beta and launch. People just got over it with time because they are further in the game’s story. The people that cared back then have either left or passed the phase in the story so are not “being shoved down their throats” the relationship between these two characters.

I am honestly afraid Anet could not have a canon male gay couple in the main cast without horrible homophobic backlash as we have already seen it happen. And the amount of complaints about Kasjory is even more telling that a loud minority of players can’t accept homosexual relationships as normal and demand “equality” (seriously? are you kidding me????). You [general you] are simply ignoring all of the heterosexual relationships because it is default in our society. Of course a queer relationship will stick out like a sore thumb to you because of the status of our media – you’re not used to it.

Empty complaints. What if the sole cast of characters were aaaaaaaaalllll gay and women???? Who cares. It’s not like the opposite (all male and hetero) is not something that happens in other games. The “acceptable” ratio you are wanting is actually already equitable and you are making a big deal out of n-o-t-h-i-n-g.

I wouldnt have a problem with a male-male romantic plot either… as long as they start giving more screen time to more standard relationships too, OR if they would start exploring more unusual relationships like interracial.

Actually, interspecies would be more accurate I suppose.

Heh. I want to see an Asura who invents a “love golem.” LOL

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Posted by: timmyf.1490

timmyf.1490

But when they have a second romantic relationship taking center stage centered around two females AGAIN, thats what made me begin to wonder what was going on.

It wasnt the fact they exist; its the fact that two in a row took more major screen time back to back.

There are a variety of relationships in the Personal Story and in the Living World. If we just look at Living World, we have:

Hetero Romantic: Peneloopee/Bloomanoo, Faren/prettymucheverybody, Braham/Ottilia
kitten Romantic: KasJory
Hetero Non-Romantic: Rox/Braham, (hinted at) Braham/Taimi, Kiel/Magnus, Kasmeer/Faren
kitten Non-Romantic: KasJory before it moved to the other column, X-o-Tron/Marcello, Thorn/Edrick

There are many relationships and dynamics, it’s just that one of those pairs kissed in a cut scene.

The romantic relationships that took center stage, however, have been pretty much one type.

I totally forgot that Rox had a romantic thing with a ‘bandmate. So that’s another one.

Anyway, we’re obviously never going to agree on this, but I’m sorry you didn’t enjoy the in-game representation of an often-marginalized segment of society. Hopefully ArenaNet will include more heterosexual relationships in the game, center stage, as you say, so that you don’t feel so uncomfortable.

Karaoke – Guild Leader – [MEGA] Super Mega Happy Fun Time
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org

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Posted by: Iason Evan.3806

Iason Evan.3806

I appreciate the tone of Bloomanoo and Peneloopee’s relationship more than the tone of Jory and Kasmeer’s relationship. The two Quaaggan are tender with each other and there is no sappiness or overt lust involved. Public displays of affection have always bothered me though. It’s rude. What two people do in the privacy of their own home is one thing. People in relationships that play grab kitten with each other in public and are cleaning each other’s tonsils with their tongues is pretty gross. The J&K romance can also be as sappy as the Gwen and Kieran romance which in my opinion was as bad as it gets. I kept thinking to myself, “What does he see in her?”. All she ever did was whine and complain.

As long as the relationship is well written, I am cool with whatever. Can we all just agree that we want believable relationships? Shouldn’t that be the benchmark? A well written and believable relationship should be what is sought after. The last few patches have given Jory and Kasmeer more dialog about themselves than the actual story and most of it is lusty, paperback romance novel stuff in my opinion. It’s has the tone of relationships my friends had in high school and it doesn’t seem to have a lasting quality about it.

If ever there was a relationship in GW2 that had tones of a “May to December Romance”, Jory and Kasmeer’s relationship fits that to a tee.

Bloomanoo and Peneloopee? They seem like they are in it for the long haul. Peneloopee’s best line sums it up, “Home is wherever Bloomanoo is.”

Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: timmyf.1490

timmyf.1490

The last few patches have given Jory and Kasmeer more dialog about themselves than the actual story and most of it is lusty, paperback romance novel stuff in my opinion.

What, the curtains?

No! Not the curtains!

;-)

Karaoke – Guild Leader – [MEGA] Super Mega Happy Fun Time
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org

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Posted by: Zomaarwat.3912

Zomaarwat.3912

Theres the newlyweds in Ascalon Settlement in Gendarran Fields that come outside for the first time in days and then go back in after a few seconds.

My favorite hetero relationship in the game is the bandit man and the seraph woman, hidden away. I don’t remember where it is, but when I found it I sat with them for a while.

Harathi Hinterlands

Over a year and the forum search is still broken = /

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Posted by: Brutalistik.6473

Brutalistik.6473

Aww man ever since that kiss posts been like this

Pineapples

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Posted by: Morrigan.2809

Morrigan.2809

Look, I just want to add that I personally don’t see much evidence that the OP is homophobic. Or that the posters here defending him are homophobic. I think that’s a pretty strong word and we shouldn’t just casually toss it around.

What I do think is that you are privileged. As am I – a white, college-educated, straight male.

What do I mean by privileged? Specifically, in this case: a relationship which mirrors the kind that I would have in real-life can be represented in game without being seen as social activism or social commentary.

When we make a big deal over this sort of thing, we’re sending small, (I assume) painful messages to people who are already marginalized that the behavior or choices they find most natural are somehow unnatural, strange, unwanted, or wrong.

For my LGBT friends who constantly have to deal with this nonsense: don’t let the kittens grind you down. <3

Well, thanks for that. Let me ask you a question though: in a society where hetero relationships define the vast majority, isn’t it ok to be ok with ONE of these, but protest it when it’s two in a row?

I mean, as I said, the first one didnt bother me. the second did. So how would you define that?

You keep returning to Caithe and Faolin, and you being ok with them.
But
They are not a romance, their relationship is over before the game even starts and they are both Sylvari- so it hardly matters.
They are also not prominent.

Marjory and Kasmeer are human, and pretty and their relationship is part of the story- because you are their friend you spend time with them.

So basically you are saying you are not ok with one same sex relationship in game

Gunnar’s Hold

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Posted by: CharrGirl.7896

CharrGirl.7896

Look, I just want to add that I personally don’t see much evidence that the OP is homophobic. Or that the posters here defending him are homophobic. I think that’s a pretty strong word and we shouldn’t just casually toss it around.

What I do think is that you are privileged. As am I – a white, college-educated, straight male.

What do I mean by privileged? Specifically, in this case: a relationship which mirrors the kind that I would have in real-life can be represented in game without being seen as social activism or social commentary.

When we make a big deal over this sort of thing, we’re sending small, (I assume) painful messages to people who are already marginalized that the behavior or choices they find most natural are somehow unnatural, strange, unwanted, or wrong.

For my LGBT friends who constantly have to deal with this nonsense: don’t let the kittens grind you down. <3

Well, thanks for that. Let me ask you a question though: in a society where hetero relationships define the vast majority, isn’t it ok to be ok with ONE of these, but protest it when it’s two in a row?

I mean, as I said, the first one didnt bother me. the second did. So how would you define that?

Caithe and Faolain don’t really count in my opinion.

ALL Sylvari are pansexual, they don’t care about genders. I don’t think it’s fair to compare it to human relationships. If you play a sylvari, that means that your character is canonically interested in both genders, whenever you like it or not.

Reason why people don’t know about it, my guess would be, they didn’t read about sylvari before launch, and there is not enough evidence in game currently supporting the fact that sylvari are pansexual. We have 1 male-male relationship consuming whole 10 minutes of your personal storyline, and Caithe isn’t really in any kind of relationship with Faolain anymore, they’re…exes.

So there you have it, one official, legitimate non-straight relationship currently in the spotlight, as part of the bigger story. The biggest thing to happen in this patch was the reveal of a new dragon, I think we should focus more on that.

Also, even if you feel bothered by it, if you’re against same-sex pairings, or against representing it, you WILL come of as homophobic in the eyes of readers, no matter what you were trying to say.

The reason why I feel it’s wrong to accuse it is because heterosexual relationships, being the usual norm as they are, are represented in more then 90% of every stories, including books, movies, video games, comics, etc. Most*stories don’t even touch the subject of homosexuality, or anything that is out of the norm.

We, as heterosexuals, are represented more then enough, to the point where it has become so stale, boring and overdone, that we’re expecting such things to happen in every major story we come across. And all of sudden, you don’t feel “represented enough” because once in 100 years your “privileged right”, and what is natural to YOU has been taken away from you. We live in age where everybody has gone lazy and we go through life with a sense of entitlement like everything belongs to us even though we don’t deserve it.

And for once, I think that something that is less commonly seen deserves to be represented more. They’re not pushing a social agenda on you, me or anyone else – if you have a problem with it, you create your own agenda behind it.

It is alright if you don’t like it, or can’t even relate to it, but demanding to be represented more, when you’re clearly over-represented in almost every form of media (often in a really forced and annoying fashion where the woman will end up with a man no matter what) would be the same as me complaining there isn’t enough white people featured in leading roles in movies.

And if you think about it , you are being represented – all the emotions you feel towards somebody when you’re in love and when you have those feelings returned are portrayed there. Some people start of their relationships for shallow reasons, then develop as time goes on. Some take their time knowing each other before engaging in a relationships. It’s no different really.

(edited by CharrGirl.7896)

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Posted by: Lilith Ajit.6173

Lilith Ajit.6173

Theres the newlyweds in Ascalon Settlement in Gendarran Fields that come outside for the first time in days and then go back in after a few seconds.

My favorite hetero relationship in the game is the bandit man and the seraph woman, hidden away. I don’t remember where it is, but when I found it I sat with them for a while.

Harathi Hinterlands

Thanks for that, do you happen to remember their names?

[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.

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Posted by: timmyf.1490

timmyf.1490

Theres the newlyweds in Ascalon Settlement in Gendarran Fields that come outside for the first time in days and then go back in after a few seconds.

My favorite hetero relationship in the game is the bandit man and the seraph woman, hidden away. I don’t remember where it is, but when I found it I sat with them for a while.

Harathi Hinterlands

Thanks for that, do you happen to remember their names?

I thought it was just “Romancing Bandit” and “Romancing Seraph” or something?

Karaoke – Guild Leader – [MEGA] Super Mega Happy Fun Time
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org

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Posted by: Lilith Ajit.6173

Lilith Ajit.6173

Theres the newlyweds in Ascalon Settlement in Gendarran Fields that come outside for the first time in days and then go back in after a few seconds.

My favorite hetero relationship in the game is the bandit man and the seraph woman, hidden away. I don’t remember where it is, but when I found it I sat with them for a while.

Harathi Hinterlands

Thanks for that, do you happen to remember their names?

I thought it was just “Romancing Bandit” and “Romancing Seraph” or something?

Ah yes romancing bandito. thanks ^^ (and seraphette) lol play on words

[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.

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Posted by: Arshay Duskbrow.1306

Arshay Duskbrow.1306

The reason why I feel it’s wrong to accuse it is because heterosexual relationships, being the usual norm as they are, are represented in more then 90% of every stories, including books, movies, video games, comics, etc. Most*stories don’t even touch the subject of homosexuality, or anything that is out of the norm.

We, as heterosexuals, are represented more then enough, to the point where it has become so stale, boring and overdone, that we’re expecting such things to happen in every major story we come across. And all of sudden, you don’t feel “represented enough” because once in 100 years your “privileged right”, and what is natural to YOU has been taken away from you. We live in age where everybody has gone lazy and we go through life with a sense of entitlement like everything belongs to us even though we don’t deserve it.

And for once, I think that something that is less commonly seen deserves to be represented more. They’re not pushing a social agenda on you, me or anyone else – if you have a problem with it, you create your own agenda behind it.

It is alright if you don’t like it, or can’t even relate to it, but demanding to be represented more, when you’re clearly over-represented in almost every form of media (often in a really forced and annoying fashion where the woman will end up with a man no matter what) would be the same as me complaining there isn’t enough white people featured in leading roles in movies.

Thank you, CharrGirl, for saving me the trouble of writing just such a post. I couldn’t have put it better – although the number is more like 99.9%. Heterosexuality is trumpeted from the rooftops all day, every day. It is a never-ending party celebrating how awesome guy-on-girl/girl-on-guy is supposed to be. It is everywhere, a ceaseless blaring media inundation of self-congratulation, and non-heterosexual individuals are expected and forced to put up with it every moment of their lives.

But the moment WE get some representation that is beyond the very occasional token single example, oh no! How threatening! How dare someone spoil the party! Heterosexuality is suddenly so downtrodden and underrepresented!

Does it not occur to you how irrational and petty that sounds?

Well, I’ll stop here. I know I’m wasting my time, and as I pointed out, CharrGirl said it all perfectly anyway, but it’s just too ridiculous to hear heterosexuals whine that there’s not enough het in their media.

(edited by Arshay Duskbrow.1306)

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Posted by: Sororita.3465

Sororita.3465

As another hetero male, I would fit the bill as someone who doesn’t. Romances of any kind can be “interesting”.

Seeming the edit by the mod made to this makes me look sleazy, i was saying that erotic relationships featured on the internet of any kind are wrong, referring to OP’s orginal post.

Commander Starlight Honeybuns[BUNS]
Timelord to Lillium Honeybuns, IoJ
Forever together, or not at all.

(edited by Sororita.3465)

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Posted by: Imperios.2543

Imperios.2543

Heterosexuality may be mainstream and the norm in real life but who knows what sexuality is like in Tyria? Everybody could be aggressively bisexual so having a lot of homosexual relationships wouldn’t really be seen as uncommon.

→This.

Especially since Kryta is mostly based on Mediterranean countries, which were traditionally quite lax on the whole homosexuality thing.

I’m fine with LGBT romances myself – I loved the Caithe/Faolain storyline, personally. KasJory was a bit more forced and kinda felt like fanservice/affirmative action to me, but was still fairly interesting. BUT I’d like some traditional romance too… It’d be nice for a change.

That, and I asked my 4 year old sister (who is generally watching me play GW2) to look away when Kas and Jory were kissing… does that make me homophobic?

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Posted by: Ridley.3691

Ridley.3691

I would have liked to see more male homosexual relationships but my gut feeling is gw2 player are just not going to take a male relationship as well as they will take a female one. It’s horrible but true I wish it was different.

There is a male Sylvari couple early in one of that race’s personal stories. I’ve never seen any objection about it.

Also, Rytlock and Logan are clearly the #1 couple in the game.

This is an old reply but I saw nobody reply to you. Actually there was a loooooot of qq threads (that literally was it, people complaining for no actual reason) about it while in beta and launch. People just got over it with time because they are further in the game’s story. The people that cared back then have either left or passed the phase in the story so are not “being shoved down their throats” the relationship between these two characters.

I am honestly afraid Anet could not have a canon male gay couple in the main cast without horrible homophobic backlash as we have already seen it happen. And the amount of complaints about Kasjory is even more telling that a loud minority of players can’t accept homosexual relationships as normal and demand “equality” (seriously? are you kidding me????). You [general you] are simply ignoring all of the heterosexual relationships because it is default in our society. Of course a queer relationship will stick out like a sore thumb to you because of the status of our media – you’re not used to it.

Empty complaints. What if the sole cast of characters were aaaaaaaaalllll gay and women???? Who cares. It’s not like the opposite (all male and hetero) is not something that happens in other games. The “acceptable” ratio you are wanting is actually already equitable and you are making a big deal out of n-o-t-h-i-n-g.

I wouldnt have a problem with a male-male romantic plot either… as long as they start giving more screen time to more standard relationships too, OR if they would start exploring more unusual relationships like interracial.

Actually, interspecies would be more accurate I suppose.

Heh. I want to see an Asura who invents a “love golem.” LOL

The problem with this thinking is you’re saying homosexual relationships aren’t ‘standard’, and you’re calling them ‘unusual’. They really aren’t, they’re rarer, yes, but they’re just as ‘normal’ as a heterosexual relationship.

I’m not saying you’re trying to be homophobic, and it’s clear you’re not maliciously being homophobic, but you’re arguments could be considered unintentionally homophobic, because you’re giving a double standard. If there we two major heterosexual relationships in the game, you wouldn’t bat an eyelid most likely, but because there have been two ‘major’ lesbian relationships, suddenly it’s ‘odd’ and ‘unusual’, and something should be done about it. And I’m using the term ‘major’ loosely, since Caithe x Foalain was hardly a major relationship, it was only mentioned briefly in the Personal Story and a bit more in the Twilight Arbor dungeon, not to mention that the actual relationship was already over when we learnt of it. I’d argue their relationship has about as much focus as the relationship between Logan and Jenna.

The Kasmeer x Marjory relationship has had a bit more screen-time, yes, but it’s hardly been thrust into our faces, with the possible exception of their kiss, which is all it was, a kiss, hardly anything that major.

If they added another couple of lesbian relationships before adding anything else, then I’d partially agree with you, but think about it, you made this thread because a game has -two- lesbian relationships in it, -two-.

(edited by Ridley.3691)