[Merged] Fractal level reset is equity wiped. Discuss.
This is the solution – just take out the leaderboard.
Then, any “advantage” level 50+ players have has no effect on anyone else. Hey, but then aren’t they skipping levels that will now be harder? No – the devs have said the curve will be easier. The way difficulty is implemented will be different, but not harder such that 50+ players need to prove they can do it grinding out 20 levels again. But lets say for arguments sake it is harder – the system is self regulating because of the difficulty curve. If players cant handle the new 48, they will try easier levels.
The only “advantage” 50+ players have is a slightly better personal reward opportunity. You can still get AR and you can still play 48s (if someone can open for you) at personal level 30. Keeping that seems a lot less unfair then removing character progression for the sake of a leaderboard no-one asked for. Do you really care if some of us get a little more gold and the chance at a tonic a little before everyone else, because we chose to grind through the awful scaling of the old system?
guildless hobo who likes to solo – [x]
Two questions for you.
1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?
1) The fractal people would have a unique advantage over the bag people and the SAB people in being compensated where they weren’t. Getting compensated even with a title is an advantage over someone in a similar situation but entirely different circumstance that didn’t.
[/quote]
So… you actually think a title is an advantage? I’m sorry Kal, but I suspect this line of thinking sets you far off into the fringe. I don’t think you’ll have any great success convincing the majority that a floaty label thingie or a statless shirt that can only be worn out of combat somehow unfairly advantages or disadvantages anyone. I don’t understand this drive to keep others from having something for themselves when the energy could be more productively used to raise yourself up to the point you can acquire what you want.
#TeamJadeQuarry
Two questions for you.
1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?
2. What the heck is a “squish”?
It sends the message that their pain is somehow greater than the pain of the many people who have gotten screwed by previous nerfs. It offers them special snowflake status and that’s the wrong move to make here.
mistakes of the past shouldnt be repeated. Just because i suffered in the past doesnt mean new people should.
Overall i think it needs to be examined, if they are going to make this evolving world, and sometimes remove things people feel attached to, or earned in some fashion, what types of ways can they mitigate this, or deal with it
Two questions for you.
1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?
2. What the heck is a “squish”?
It sends the message that their pain is somehow greater than the pain of the many people who have gotten screwed by previous nerfs. It offers them special snowflake status and that’s the wrong move to make here.
There’s a difference between nerfing areas that were being abused (for want of a better word) and recognizing the achievements people made in content that is being removed.
#TeamJadeQuarry
Two questions for you.
1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?
2. What the heck is a “squish”?
It sends the message that their pain is somehow greater than the pain of the many people who have gotten screwed by previous nerfs. It offers them special snowflake status and that’s the wrong move to make here.
mistakes of the past shouldnt be repeated. Just because i suffered in the past doesnt mean new people should.
Overall i think it needs to be examined, if they are going to make this evolving world, and sometimes remove things people feel attached to, or earned in some fashion, what types of ways can they mitigate this, or deal with it
Im looking at this also from this perspective. The Dev’s have run out of time to do any real changes to Tuesday patch, but what we discuss here could have ramifications for future patchs. Maybe they weren’t listening when old things were removed without providing any sort of consideration for players….maybe they are not now. But maybe they are and maybe we can prevent a future pain for players in a future update.
Two questions for you.
1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?
2. What the heck is a “squish”?
It sends the message that their pain is somehow greater than the pain of the many people who have gotten screwed by previous nerfs. It offers them special snowflake status and that’s the wrong move to make here.
There’s a difference between nerfing areas that were being abused (for want of a better word) and recognizing the achievements people made in content that is being removed.
SAB World 2. It’s the same situation. People achieved getting through. Then they changed the content making it easier for others to get through, but those who got through while it was very hard got nothing to show for their accomplishment.
Same situation. No recognition.
It’s even possible that the changes will make it even harder than it was before to get through. So should they be getting recognition for completing inferior content?
Tarnished Coast Kal Spiro – Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/WS #SABorRiot
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker
(edited by Kal Spiro.9745)
This is the solution – just take out the leaderboard.
Then, any “advantage” level 50+ players have has no effect on anyone else. Hey, but then aren’t they skipping levels that will now be harder? No – the devs have said the curve will be easier. The way difficulty is implemented will be different, but not harder such that 50+ players need to prove they can do it grinding out 20 levels again. But lets say for arguments sake it is harder – the system is self regulating because of the difficulty curve. If players cant handle the new 48, they will try easier levels.
The only “advantage” 50+ players have is a slightly better personal reward opportunity. You can still get AR and you can still play 48s (if someone can open for you) at personal level 30. Keeping that seems a lot less unfair then removing character progression for the sake of a leaderboard no-one asked for. Do you really care if some of us get a little more gold and the chance at a tonic a little before everyone else, because we chose to grind through the awful scaling of the old system?
doesnt work that way, they will try to learn hardest.
Also as you say its going to be different, thats the whole issue, why should someone be able to skip new content based on what they did in some different content?
People who invested in AR already will have an advantage. That is fine. I mean if you guys just want a game genie code to get to the last level, it wont effect me much, but you havent achieved or proved anything by skipping to the end.
There’s a difference between nerfing areas that were being abused (for want of a better word) and recognizing the achievements people made in content that is being removed.
Are you implying fractals weren’t broken and weren’t abused? Because that would be wrong. Sure some people might have made it to the top without abusing a single glitch but if I were to make a wager I wouldn’t bet my money on them being in the majority here.
The AC path was revamped at twilight arbor was given a new path. The dungeon master title was not taken away. I am able to skip that content and retain my title.
guildless hobo who likes to solo – [x]
Two questions for you.
1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?
2. What the heck is a “squish”?
It sends the message that their pain is somehow greater than the pain of the many people who have gotten screwed by previous nerfs. It offers them special snowflake status and that’s the wrong move to make here.
There’s a difference between nerfing areas that were being abused (for want of a better word) and recognizing the achievements people made in content that is being removed.
SAB World 2. It’s the same situation. People achieved getting through. Then they changed the content making it easier for others to get through, but those who got through while it was very hard got nothing to show for their accomplishment.
Same situation. No recognition.
not exactly the same, i do wonder would the high fractal dudes prefer that though? lets say they unlock all fractal levels for a week, and anybody who beats a level gets that rank, would they be more mad, or less mad at getting reset?
Two questions for you.
1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?
2. What the heck is a “squish”?
It sends the message that their pain is somehow greater than the pain of the many people who have gotten screwed by previous nerfs. It offers them special snowflake status and that’s the wrong move to make here.
There’s a difference between nerfing areas that were being abused (for want of a better word) and recognizing the achievements people made in content that is being removed.
SAB World 2. It’s the same situation. People achieved getting through. Then they changed the content making it easier for others to get through, but those who got through while it was very hard got nothing to show for their accomplishment.
Same situation. No recognition.
No, not the same. SAB world 2 was bugged. The difficulty was higher than they intended. While a select few made it through before the fix, it was never intended to be that tough.
Fractals to 50 was meant to be tough from the outset. A few excelled, as expected, while many didn’t make it that far, also as expected. This is a situation where 31 – 50 is being replaced, so why not recognize the few that excelled under intentionally tough circumstances? I won’t get a title, but I won’t lose anything either because I hadn’t earned it so it doesn’t bother me in the least.
#TeamJadeQuarry
Allowing you to skip several levels of instabilities? No. That’s just plain wrong.
Then why put some random system in the middle of something people passed months ago?? Put in on 50 where the mythical cap was made and extend the cap. What’s so hard about that? Why go back? Why take everyone’s progress and wipe it clean. This is not 1500’s. We live in time where progression is encouraged. Why go back?
You make it sound like it’s fair because instabilities or whatever they call it was put in. Then why didn’t they put it on higher levels? The levels almost every respectable fractal player waited to be unlocked. You can’t use instabilities as an argument and call them a reason. From what I remember we never asked for them, so they’re being forced upon us, just like the level reset. Your argument is not a valid one.
The AC path was revamped at twilight arbor was given a new path. The dungeon master title was not taken away. I am able to skip that content and retain my title.
yeah but they didnt give you the achievements for beating the new TA. all your title says is you beat 4 TA paths, thats accurate. I am fully on board with them giving a title showing what you beat before.
You want the achievements and rewards for the new path, thats the difference.
Two questions for you.
1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?
2. What the heck is a “squish”?
It sends the message that their pain is somehow greater than the pain of the many people who have gotten screwed by previous nerfs. It offers them special snowflake status and that’s the wrong move to make here.
There’s a difference between nerfing areas that were being abused (for want of a better word) and recognizing the achievements people made in content that is being removed.
SAB World 2. It’s the same situation. People achieved getting through. Then they changed the content making it easier for others to get through, but those who got through while it was very hard got nothing to show for their accomplishment.
Same situation. No recognition.
No, not the same. SAB world 2 was bugged. The difficulty was higher than they intended. While a select few made it through before the fix, it was never intended to be that tough.
Fractals to 50 was meant to be tough from the outset. A few excelled, as expected, while many didn’t make it that far, also as expected. This is a situation where 31 – 50 is being replaced, so why not recognize the few that excelled under intentionally tough circumstances? I won’t get a title, but I won’t lose anything either because I hadn’t earned it so it doesn’t bother me in the least.
Yeah, it was super tough and people weren’t intended to get through it. 51 – 80, people weren’t intended to get through it, but they did.
More importantly, what happens if the new content is significantly more difficult to complete than it ever was before because of the new mechanic.
Should people be recognized for completing inferior content?
Tarnished Coast Kal Spiro – Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/WS #SABorRiot
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker
The AC path was revamped at twilight arbor was given a new path. The dungeon master title was not taken away. I am able to skip that content and retain my title.
No fractal rewards have been taken away. The only thing to be taken away is the number and that’s because the progression has been revamped. It’s a squish for the sake of the health of the game.
Two questions for you.
1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?
2. What the heck is a “squish”?
It sends the message that their pain is somehow greater than the pain of the many people who have gotten screwed by previous nerfs. It offers them special snowflake status and that’s the wrong move to make here.
There’s a difference between nerfing areas that were being abused (for want of a better word) and recognizing the achievements people made in content that is being removed.
SAB World 2. It’s the same situation. People achieved getting through. Then they changed the content making it easier for others to get through, but those who got through while it was very hard got nothing to show for their accomplishment.
Same situation. No recognition.
No, not the same. SAB world 2 was bugged. The difficulty was higher than they intended. While a select few made it through before the fix, it was never intended to be that tough.
Fractals to 50 was meant to be tough from the outset. A few excelled, as expected, while many didn’t make it that far, also as expected. This is a situation where 31 – 50 is being replaced, so why not recognize the few that excelled under intentionally tough circumstances? I won’t get a title, but I won’t lose anything either because I hadn’t earned it so it doesn’t bother me in the least.
Yeah, it was super tough and people weren’t intended to get through it. 51 – 80, people weren’t intended to get through it, but they did.
More importantly, what happens if the new content is significantly more difficult to complete than it ever was before because of the new mechanic.
Should people be recognized for completing inferior content?
In that vein, everyone should be leveled down to 1 (which would have probably made me happier, but a lot more people angy). Level 1-30 changes significantly….new fractals, no more odd fractals without any boss monster. Now you ALWAYS end with a boss fractal AND fractals are weighted so that easier ones always appear first and harder ones later…which means you can’t get lucky anymore and hit Swamp / water / ascalon.
According to your logic, since the experience is now different and the new way is technically harder, why should people who rushed this week to 30 (and infused their rings) gain an advantage over people that didn’t? Shouldn’t everything be reset?
Allowing you to skip several levels of instabilities? No. That’s just plain wrong.
Then why put some random system in the middle of something people passed months ago?? Put in on 50 where the mythical cap was made and extend the cap. What’s so hard about that? Why go back? Why take everyone’s progress and wipe it clean. This is not 1500’s. We live in time where progression is encouraged. Why go back?
You make it sound like it’s fair because instabilities or whatever they call it was put in. Then why didn’t they put it on higher levels? The levels almost every respectable fractal player waited to be unlocked. You can’t use instabilities as an argument and call them a reason. From what I remember we never asked for them, so they’re being forced upon us, just like the level reset. Your argument is not a valid one.
Accessibility. What good is the content if no one can get to it except for a vast minority of people? At level 30 most people have a reasonable shot to see the instabilities with a moderate bit of effort. Putting it at 50 shuts out the vast majority of players and would discourage many from even trying.
#TeamJadeQuarry
Allowing you to skip several levels of instabilities? No. That’s just plain wrong.
Then why put some random system in the middle of something people passed months ago?? Put in on 50 where the mythical cap was made and extend the cap. What’s so hard about that? Why go back? Why take everyone’s progress and wipe it clean. This is not 1500’s. We live in time where progression is encouraged. Why go back?
You make it sound like it’s fair because instabilities or whatever they call it was put in. Then why didn’t they put it on higher levels? The levels almost every respectable fractal player waited to be unlocked. You can’t use instabilities as an argument and call them a reason. From what I remember we never asked for them, so they’re being forced upon us, just like the level reset. Your argument is not a valid one.
instabilities is not made for old fractal system, old fractal system was designed around mechanical difficulty increases.
this is old fractals
make one basket =flevel1
make two baskets in a row = flevel2
etc
instabilities is like
make one basket while running with a defender
make one basket within 5 seconds
make one basket with your left hand
make one basket after running 2 laps
point is putting it behind the 80 basket in a row requirement doesnt make sense, because its testing skills in a different way.
instabilities is not to solve the difficulty level issue, instabilities is to solve the type of difficulty, and a feeling of doing new things. They have put the difficulty of the other type on haitus for now
More importantly, what happens if the new content is significantly more difficult to complete than it ever was before because of the new mechanic.
Should people be recognized for completing inferior content?
I keep hearing this over and over again. Even though the devs specifically said that it will be easier to get to level 50 than it was before because of balances and tweaks that they’ve implemented into the new fractals. Don’t kid yourself that it’ll be harder and what not. Easier doesn’t mean maybe it will be easier, maybe it will be harder. It mean’s easier.
Shouldn’t everything be reset?
That would probably be ideal but this is their way of softening the blow and offer the kind of recognition people are asking for here. Apparently it isn’t enough for some.
More importantly, what happens if the new content is significantly more difficult to complete than it ever was before because of the new mechanic.
Should people be recognized for completing inferior content?
I keep hearing this over and over again. Even though the devs specifically said that it will be easier to get to level 50 than it was before because of balances and tweaks that they’ve implemented into the new fractals. Don’t kid yourself that it’ll be harder and what not. Easier doesn’t mean maybe it will be easier, maybe it will be harder. It mean’s easier.
Let leaderboards be based off of highest rank done.
If the top level players go into 50, and finish it the first day, then the content is a joke and unnecessary reset. If they fail 50 and have to start at 38, 40 whatever to practice and work their way up, then they will. No reason in unnessarily resetting levels.
*Credit to Weth
You get nothing! You lose, good day sir!
Yeah, it was super tough and people weren’t intended to get through it. 51 – 80, people weren’t intended to get through it, but they did.
More importantly, what happens if the new content is significantly more difficult to complete than it ever was before because of the new mechanic.
Should people be recognized for completing inferior content?
Interesting question. Would you care, really, if someone got a title for completing inferior and now defunct content? For that matter… would they even wear the title? Does it really affect your game if someone else is sporting a Fractal based title in any way?
#TeamJadeQuarry
There are tons of titles not available anymore. Your point?
Directed at manuhell
If you mean the living story ones – people knew in advance about said content getting removed.
Here we’re talking about rewarding content after it has been already removed.
Content that didn’t even give achievements for fractal levels, let alone titles.But… Fractals is the original living story!
And it never had titles, or even achievements, related to personal fractal level. Also, it was never stated to be temporary content – quite the opposite, since they’ve been adding items with agony resistance over time. Sure, they’re changing them, but any achievement previously available will still be available even with the new fractals.
So why should they add rewards – be it titles or something else – without any notice, after removing the means to get them?
Accessibility. What good is the content if no one can get to it except for a vast minority of people? At level 30 most people have a reasonable shot to see the instabilities with a moderate bit of effort. Putting it at 50 shuts out the vast majority of players and would discourage many from even trying.
So does that make it right to take it away from us? Just so majority will be ok with it? It’s like saying that they’ll take away legendaries from minority, so majority can catch up to their accomplishments. Or resetting everyone’s achievement score and taking their right to rewards they unlocked, so everyone can “start at equal footing”. We worked hard to get to that level 50 while others were farming gold and getting rewarded for doing dungeons and such. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, it doesn’t make it right.
Two questions for you.
1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?
2. What the heck is a “squish”?
It sends the message that their pain is somehow greater than the pain of the many people who have gotten screwed by previous nerfs. It offers them special snowflake status and that’s the wrong move to make here.
There’s a difference between nerfing areas that were being abused (for want of a better word) and recognizing the achievements people made in content that is being removed.
SAB World 2. It’s the same situation. People achieved getting through. Then they changed the content making it easier for others to get through, but those who got through while it was very hard got nothing to show for their accomplishment.
Same situation. No recognition.
No, not the same. SAB world 2 was bugged. The difficulty was higher than they intended. While a select few made it through before the fix, it was never intended to be that tough.
Fractals to 50 was meant to be tough from the outset. A few excelled, as expected, while many didn’t make it that far, also as expected. This is a situation where 31 – 50 is being replaced, so why not recognize the few that excelled under intentionally tough circumstances? I won’t get a title, but I won’t lose anything either because I hadn’t earned it so it doesn’t bother me in the least.
Yeah, it was super tough and people weren’t intended to get through it. 51 – 80, people weren’t intended to get through it, but they did.
More importantly, what happens if the new content is significantly more difficult to complete than it ever was before because of the new mechanic.
Should people be recognized for completing inferior content?
In that vein, everyone should be leveled down to 1 (which would have probably made me happier, but a lot more people angy). Level 1-30 changes significantly….new fractals, no more odd fractals without any boss monster. Now you ALWAYS end with a boss fractal AND fractals are weighted so that easier ones always appear first and harder ones later…which means you can’t get lucky anymore and hit Swamp / water / ascalon.
According to your logic, since the experience is now different and the new way is technically harder, why should people who rushed this week to 30 (and infused their rings) gain an advantage over people that didn’t? Shouldn’t everything be reset?
you are correct, in fact, even though i was never one to do odd fractals once i didnt have to, i always went for the boss, some people probably did use it for slightly faster runs (ehhh not really worth it)
If they fixed a lot of the unintended work arounds, that alone may make some fractals super hard
changing the maw, which is probably one of the easiest fights in the game to possibly being two of the harder fights, is a big deal
the easy run versus hard run is hard to say, to be honest i did a great many dredge, cliffside, shaman runs for many people it evened out
so yeah it is harder, but its still pretty close to what we did before. i guess it amounts to having to decide a cut off point somewhere
Interesting question. Would you care, really, if someone got a title for completing inferior and now defunct content? For that matter… would they even wear the title? Does it really affect your game if someone else is sporting a Fractal based title in any way?
Some people play the game to collect silly things like titles, minis and whatnot. And while I’m not all that into it myself I do think it makes for a more worthwhile form of progression than an arbitrary number.
Accessibility. What good is the content if no one can get to it except for a vast minority of people? At level 30 most people have a reasonable shot to see the instabilities with a moderate bit of effort. Putting it at 50 shuts out the vast majority of players and would discourage many from even trying.
So does that make it right to take it away from us? Just so majority will be ok with it? It’s like saying that they’ll take away legendaries from minority, so majority can catch up to their accomplishments. Or resetting everyone’s achievement score and taking their right to rewards they unlocked, so everyone can “start at equal footing”. We worked hard to get to that level 50 while others were farming gold and getting rewarded for doing dungeons and such. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, it doesn’t make it right.
too angry, your also making a lot of comparisons that arent accurate.
Would you be ok if you could keep your old levels, but only had access to old content? lets say old fractals would return in 4 months as a side fractal, and you kept your level?
Just wanted to let y’all know that I’m done responding. I’ve said my piece. I stand by titles and humorous town clothes are the solution to this mess.
I see this thread closing soon. Just wanted to wish you all luck in your endeavors, and that the animosity and toxicity of this thread is let go after a while. Our community has literally been fractured, and I just hope we can fix it.
Peace and love to y’all,
Jaya
[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
The whole idea of the new fractals system is to get more players doing fractals.
They are re-doing how you get agony resistance and making it so you get a little bit every level…because one barrier to people before was spending the ecto and fractal relics to infuse items.
They are making it easier to get to level 50…because another barrier last time was that difficulty went up significantly once you got over 30…it scaled fairly slowly to 28, but 30 was a lot harder than 28, 38 was way harder than 30 and 48 made me feel like running 28’s and 38s was “relaxing”. (don’t even get any of us started on the 50+ difficulty’s because it continued to scale like this).
They implemented a leaderboard to try and get the PVP’rs and WvW’rs (who like leaderboards and scales of talent and a feeling of competition). The leaderboard will be pretty meaningless until they open above 50, but this is probably their reasoning.
The set all this at 30 instead of 50 to get the majority of the players (who were sitting at the 28 level in fractals)…
They implemented the instabilities because these “handicaps” went over very well in the queens pavilion champ challenges…and they want to get those players involved who loved that…there will no doubt be achievements tied to this as well (get through a 34 fractal without dying once = achievement, etc).
I welcome the changes, and I will welcome the new players. We will all need to learn the new tactics with the new fractals and we will all be one happy family.
But I don’t have to like losing my former levels…it is work lost and it is equity lost. I think ANET should make some sort of effort in appeasing these players, just like I think they should have made an effort to do so for past losses, and like I think they should make appeasement for any future equity lost by any group…even groups that I don’t associate with.
Equity lost is equity lost…regardless of whether that number meant anything to anyone else…the number represents hours and months worth of work to someone…it meant something to them.
Accessibility. What good is the content if no one can get to it except for a vast minority of people? At level 30 most people have a reasonable shot to see the instabilities with a moderate bit of effort. Putting it at 50 shuts out the vast majority of players and would discourage many from even trying.
So does that make it right to take it away from us? Just so majority will be ok with it? It’s like saying that they’ll take away legendaries from minority, so majority can catch up to their accomplishments. Or resetting everyone’s achievement score and taking their right to rewards they unlocked, so everyone can “start at equal footing”. We worked hard to get to that level 50 while others were farming gold and getting rewarded for doing dungeons and such. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, it doesn’t make it right.
It does, and I’ll tell you why.
They’re taking away two things. The fractals post-30 under the old system and your access to higher levels of content that no longer exist. That’s all it penultimately boils down to… changing content and accessibility to the new content. Levels are being reset to 30 because no one has done this content beyond level 30, therefore no one has earned any levels beyond 30 in this new content.
That’s why it makes sense and why it’s right. Old content gone. Access to old content gone. Access to new content begins where the new content begins.
#TeamJadeQuarry
Just wanted to let y’all know that I’m done responding. I’ve said my piece. I stand by titles and humorous town clothes are the solution to this mess.
I see this thread closing soon. Just wanted to wish you all luck in your endeavors, and that the animosity and toxicity of this thread is let go after a while. Our community has literally been fractured, and I just hope we can fix it.
Peace and love to y’all,
Jaya
It’s no more fractured than every other debate on the forums, and will be completely forgotten within a week of the Fractured release.
Tarnished Coast Kal Spiro – Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/WS #SABorRiot
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker
Just wanted to let y’all know that I’m done responding. I’ve said my piece. I stand by titles and humorous town clothes are the solution to this mess.
I see this thread closing soon. Just wanted to wish you all luck in your endeavors, and that the animosity and toxicity of this thread is let go after a while. Our community has literally been fractured, and I just hope we can fix it.
Peace and love to y’all,
Jaya
It’s no more fractured than every other debate on the forums, and will be completely forgotten within a week of the Fractured release.
The ultimate truth has been revealed.
#TeamJadeQuarry
Accessibility. What good is the content if no one can get to it except for a vast minority of people? At level 30 most people have a reasonable shot to see the instabilities with a moderate bit of effort. Putting it at 50 shuts out the vast majority of players and would discourage many from even trying.
So does that make it right to take it away from us? Just so majority will be ok with it? It’s like saying that they’ll take away legendaries from minority, so majority can catch up to their accomplishments. Or resetting everyone’s achievement score and taking their right to rewards they unlocked, so everyone can “start at equal footing”. We worked hard to get to that level 50 while others were farming gold and getting rewarded for doing dungeons and such. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, it doesn’t make it right.
It does, and I’ll tell you why.
They’re taking away two things. The fractals post-30 under the old system and your access to higher levels of content that no longer exist. That’s all it penultimately boils down to… changing content and accessibility to the new content. Levels are being reset to 30 because no one has done this content beyond level 30, therefore no one has earned any levels beyond 30 in this new content.
That’s why it makes sense and why it’s right. Old content gone. Access to old content gone. Access to new content begins where the new content begins.
Still doesn’t make it right for me in any way. They could have said that the content will be temporary then, so i wouldn’t waste my time. At all. You obviously haven’t been invested in fractals as much as some of us. And because we have been invested into them so much, we’re being punished by taking away one thing in this game we loved the most and not getting anything worth of any value for the time and work we put into it. Developers’ involvement is non-existant in the issue, and because of people like you it makes it all ok. “Hey this guy is cool with it, so everyone is cool with it”. I’m done with this thread and fractals respectively…
Equity lost is equity lost…regardless of whether that number meant anything to anyone else…the number represents hours and months worth of work to someone…it meant something to them.
Ok, so I’m lost. When you say it’s equity lost do you mean it’s unjust, or are you actually talking about a monetary value of some sort?
I can’t support either, though thinking it’s unjust is at least reasonable from someone who thinks their losing something. But context says you mean the other definition, which just makes no sense.
Fractals contain no equity. You can’t trade them in for a monetary value, you can’t sell them, they don’t become worth more if you hold on to them for a long period of time. This argument just doesn’t make sense.
Tarnished Coast Kal Spiro – Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/WS #SABorRiot
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker
Let leaderboards be based off of highest rank done.
If the top level players go into 50, and finish it the first day, then the content is a joke and unnecessary reset. If they fail 50 and have to start at 38, 40 whatever to practice and work their way up, then they will. No reason in unnessarily resetting levels.
*Credit to Weth
Nobody? Too good of an idea?
You get nothing! You lose, good day sir!
The whole idea of the new fractals system is to get more players doing fractals.
They are re-doing how you get agony resistance and making it so you get a little bit every level…because one barrier to people before was spending the ecto and fractal relics to infuse items.
They are making it easier to get to level 50…because another barrier last time was that difficulty went up significantly once you got over 30…it scaled fairly slowly to 28, but 30 was a lot harder than 28, 38 was way harder than 30 and 48 made me feel like running 28’s and 38s was “relaxing”. (don’t even get any of us started on the 50+ difficulty’s because it continued to scale like this).
They implemented a leaderboard to try and get the PVP’rs and WvW’rs (who like leaderboards and scales of talent and a feeling of competition). The leaderboard will be pretty meaningless until they open above 50, but this is probably their reasoning.
The set all this at 30 instead of 50 to get the majority of the players (who were sitting at the 28 level in fractals)…
They implemented the instabilities because these “handicaps” went over very well in the queens pavilion champ challenges…and they want to get those players involved who loved that…there will no doubt be achievements tied to this as well (get through a 34 fractal without dying once = achievement, etc).
I welcome the changes, and I will welcome the new players. We will all need to learn the new tactics with the new fractals and we will all be one happy family.
But I don’t have to like losing my former levels…it is work lost and it is equity lost. I think ANET should make some sort of effort in appeasing these players, just like I think they should have made an effort to do so for past losses, and like I think they should make appeasement for any future equity lost by any group…even groups that I don’t associate with.
Equity lost is equity lost…regardless of whether that number meant anything to anyone else…the number represents hours and months worth of work to someone…it meant something to them.
you are not really correct Moshari
1)They arent making it easier to get AR, you still are required to get an infused ring or backpiece before you can use any of the new AR infusions. They are starting off blank, whereas before they started at +5 when you got them. I think the main reason for this change is to make it so that progressing in fractals does not require you to do dailies, WvW craft an ascended weapon, or etc. Now you can get 55 AR from just 3 pieces if you are dedicated.
2) they are changing the difficulty type, its really not going to be cmparable to the old difficulty, apples and oranges, from the dev blog the point of instabilities is to change up the old patterns you are used to, thats the opposite of the old progressions goal, which was to refine, and test how well you mastered the old patterns.
3) leader boards, ehhh who knows why this is here, guess it depends on the implementation
4) i actually think this isnt made to get casuals to get into fractals, its more to get all the people who stopped in the mid to late 20s, or stopped in the 30s or just stopped overall, mostly because the fractals were the same, only less forgiving, and longer time beating up hp/toughness bags
This patch is to do a number of things
general pass, clean up bugs and cheesy techniques for beating content
content pass, add new content
quality pass, improve the quality of the challenges and interestingness of progressing
Its not really an appeal to casuals here, its actually an appeal to people who lost interest, come look, its new exciting and more fun. AND its got gold now!
just to be clear, a lot of the people who lost interest are of various levels.
Just wanted to let y’all know that I’m done responding. I’ve said my piece. I stand by titles and humorous town clothes are the solution to this mess.
I see this thread closing soon. Just wanted to wish you all luck in your endeavors, and that the animosity and toxicity of this thread is let go after a while. Our community has literally been fractured, and I just hope we can fix it.
Peace and love to y’all,
Jaya
It’s no more fractured than every other debate on the forums, and will be completely forgotten within a week of the Fractured release.
The ultimate truth has been revealed.
But I think that is part of the point some of us are trying to make. There was a huge uproar when they removed TA Up Up, there was a huge uproar about the new tequatl, there tends to be huge uproars when these things happen but then people just accept it.
We should strive under the new collaborative development ideas that the devs keep throwing around to make arguments about why they shouldn’t do some of these things in the hopes that maybe the next group won’t get screwed.
I have said time and time again in these threads that I think it is too late for this LS update on Tuesday. The changes are happening. But maybe we can help the next group to lose something.
But I can see it now…when they remove the next thing…there will be people screaming “but where were you guys when they removed fractal levels and didn’t do anything for those guys? The Fractal guys didn’t get anything, neither should you.”
This is why we are having the discussion. Regardless of whether or not you want compensation or don’t want to give it.
Do we think it is right that ANET did this? Is it okay for ANET to wipe player equity (regardless of if you believe fractal level is equity) and finally What should they do instead (for next time).?
This sucks. It took my group nine 8-12 hour sessions to go through lvls 6-80.
I just liked the number. It was symmeyrical, and I could look at it. Good times.
Crigger – Death and Taxes [DnT]
http://www.dtguilds.com
http://www.dtguilds.com
Accessibility. What good is the content if no one can get to it except for a vast minority of people? At level 30 most people have a reasonable shot to see the instabilities with a moderate bit of effort. Putting it at 50 shuts out the vast majority of players and would discourage many from even trying.
So does that make it right to take it away from us? Just so majority will be ok with it? It’s like saying that they’ll take away legendaries from minority, so majority can catch up to their accomplishments. Or resetting everyone’s achievement score and taking their right to rewards they unlocked, so everyone can “start at equal footing”. We worked hard to get to that level 50 while others were farming gold and getting rewarded for doing dungeons and such. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, it doesn’t make it right.
It does, and I’ll tell you why.
They’re taking away two things. The fractals post-30 under the old system and your access to higher levels of content that no longer exist. That’s all it penultimately boils down to… changing content and accessibility to the new content. Levels are being reset to 30 because no one has done this content beyond level 30, therefore no one has earned any levels beyond 30 in this new content.
That’s why it makes sense and why it’s right. Old content gone. Access to old content gone. Access to new content begins where the new content begins.
Still doesn’t make it right for me in any way. They could have said that the content will be temporary then, so i wouldn’t waste my time. At all. You obviously haven’t been invested in fractals as much as some of us. And because we have been invested into them so much, we’re being punished by taking away one thing in this game we loved the most and not getting anything worth of any value for the time and work we put into it. Developers’ involvement is non-existant in the issue, and because of people like you it makes it all ok. “Hey this guy is cool with it, so everyone is cool with it”. I’m done with this thread and fractals respectively…
What content? An algorithm isn’t content. The only different between EVERY level of Fractals is the difficulty. It keeps getting harder because a program tells it to be harder. It’s not content, it’s not like they actually went and planned out each level and how it would work, they just designed them to be harder.
NOW that isn’t true anymore. They are actually going into the levels past 30 and adding things, things are content. The new instabilities which are supposed to be continually different each level are added content to something that didn’t have added content.
So no content was temporary.
Tarnished Coast Kal Spiro – Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/WS #SABorRiot
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker
Let leaderboards be based off of highest rank done.
If the top level players go into 50, and finish it the first day, then the content is a joke and unnecessary reset. If they fail 50 and have to start at 38, 40 whatever to practice and work their way up, then they will. No reason in unnessarily resetting levels.
*Credit to Weth
Nobody? Too good of an idea?
told you, its not a good idea, because you havent completed all challenges
In fact i think the leaderboards should essentially be how many different instabilities you beat, or total fractals beat with each instability. max level is really shallow and shows nothing.
say there are 20 instabilities, and 13 different fractals (if there are 3 new levels and 2 new bosses) that would be 160 levels, and only the most hardcore would be at the top that board. I guess the flaw would be the bad rng on getting the fractals and challenges you need, so ehhh.
leaderboards suck
told you, its not a good idea, because you havent completed all challenges
So? If the hardest challenge is easier than the easier challenge than horrible design.
leaderboards suck
Agreed
You get nothing! You lose, good day sir!
told you, its not a good idea, because you havent completed all challenges
So? If the hardest challenge is easier than the easier challenge than horrible design.
leaderboards suck
Agreed
To add to this, I’m an avid rock climber.
In rock climbing and bouldering competitions, there are beginner levels, intermediate levels, and advance levels.
When I enter a competition, I can choose to go at beginner, intermediate, or advance. If I pick beginner and fly through all the problems, they bump me up to intermediate.
If I enter as advance, and I suck and fail, I go do intermediate problems.
They don’t force me to start at beginner and work my way up. If I can’t do the advance, then I need to start low and practice.
You get nothing! You lose, good day sir!
Accessibility. What good is the content if no one can get to it except for a vast minority of people? At level 30 most people have a reasonable shot to see the instabilities with a moderate bit of effort. Putting it at 50 shuts out the vast majority of players and would discourage many from even trying.
So does that make it right to take it away from us? Just so majority will be ok with it? It’s like saying that they’ll take away legendaries from minority, so majority can catch up to their accomplishments. Or resetting everyone’s achievement score and taking their right to rewards they unlocked, so everyone can “start at equal footing”. We worked hard to get to that level 50 while others were farming gold and getting rewarded for doing dungeons and such. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, it doesn’t make it right.
It does, and I’ll tell you why.
They’re taking away two things. The fractals post-30 under the old system and your access to higher levels of content that no longer exist. That’s all it penultimately boils down to… changing content and accessibility to the new content. Levels are being reset to 30 because no one has done this content beyond level 30, therefore no one has earned any levels beyond 30 in this new content.
That’s why it makes sense and why it’s right. Old content gone. Access to old content gone. Access to new content begins where the new content begins.
Still doesn’t make it right for me in any way. They could have said that the content will be temporary then, so i wouldn’t waste my time. At all. You obviously haven’t been invested in fractals as much as some of us. And because we have been invested into them so much, we’re being punished by taking away one thing in this game we loved the most and not getting anything worth of any value for the time and work we put into it. Developers’ involvement is non-existant in the issue, and because of people like you it makes it all ok. “Hey this guy is cool with it, so everyone is cool with it”. I’m done with this thread and fractals respectively…
What content? An algorithm isn’t content. The only different between EVERY level of Fractals is the difficulty. It keeps getting harder because a program tells it to be harder. It’s not content, it’s not like they actually went and planned out each level and how it would work, they just designed them to be harder.
NOW that isn’t true anymore. They are actually going into the levels past 30 and adding things, things are content. The new instabilities which are supposed to be continually different each level are added content to something that didn’t have added content.
So no content was temporary.
not exactly true, agony changed boss fight mechanics, and some enemies got new abilities. In other parts changing the numbers of enemies changed the best strategies.
However i do believe at some level, the devs said it became 100% the same only scaling in mob stats, my guess is its broken up like the lfg tool, and nothing new happens after 30, other than dmg/def/hp scaling
Let leaderboards be based off of highest rank done.
If the top level players go into 50, and finish it the first day, then the content is a joke and unnecessary reset. If they fail 50 and have to start at 38, 40 whatever to practice and work their way up, then they will. No reason in unnessarily resetting levels.
*Credit to Weth
Nobody? Too good of an idea?
told you, its not a good idea, because you havent completed all challenges
In fact i think the leaderboards should essentially be how many different instabilities you beat, or total fractals beat with each instability. max level is really shallow and shows nothing.
say there are 20 instabilities, and 13 different fractals (if there are 3 new levels and 2 new bosses) that would be 160 levels, and only the most hardcore would be at the top that board. I guess the flaw would be the bad rng on getting the fractals and challenges you need, so ehhh.
leaderboards suck
I agree, unfortunately I don’t think they set up the leaderboards that way because otherwise the personal reward level wouldn’t matter. Someone could be PRL 80 and still be on the bottom of the leaderboard because they didn’t do all the instabilities in all the levels…it really wouldn’t matter that they could “jump ahead” because the leaderboard would be based off of achievements (within the levels) rather than progression. This would have all been a moot argument! It probably would have been a far better system of doing leaderboards for this type of content.
The fact that they had to set everyone down to 30 for the leaderboards means unfortunately that it has something to do with progression within the levels and leaving people able to jump to 50 immediately would have given them an unfair advantage.
told you, its not a good idea, because you havent completed all challenges
So? If the hardest challenge is easier than the easier challenge than horrible design.
leaderboards suck
Agreed
To add to this, I’m an avid rock climber.
In rock climbing and bouldering competitions, there are beginner levels, intermediate levels, and advance levels.
When I enter a competition, I can choose to go at beginner, intermediate, or advance. If I pick beginner and fly through all the problems, they bump me up to intermediate.
If I enter as advance, and I suck and fail, I go do intermediate problems.
They don’t force me to start at beginner and work my way up. If I can’t do the advance, then I need to start low and practice.
and as avid rock climber i am sure there is a whole range of very interesting mountains that fall in each category, and are not strictly speaking harder than each other, but provide different challenges, if that is not the case, ok.
But it is in many sports, many disciplines, piano for example, art, etc.
I think its honestly better design if instabilities can give this type of teired challenge
Accessibility. What good is the content if no one can get to it except for a vast minority of people? At level 30 most people have a reasonable shot to see the instabilities with a moderate bit of effort. Putting it at 50 shuts out the vast majority of players and would discourage many from even trying.
So does that make it right to take it away from us? Just so majority will be ok with it? It’s like saying that they’ll take away legendaries from minority, so majority can catch up to their accomplishments. Or resetting everyone’s achievement score and taking their right to rewards they unlocked, so everyone can “start at equal footing”. We worked hard to get to that level 50 while others were farming gold and getting rewarded for doing dungeons and such. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, it doesn’t make it right.
It does, and I’ll tell you why.
They’re taking away two things. The fractals post-30 under the old system and your access to higher levels of content that no longer exist. That’s all it penultimately boils down to… changing content and accessibility to the new content. Levels are being reset to 30 because no one has done this content beyond level 30, therefore no one has earned any levels beyond 30 in this new content.
That’s why it makes sense and why it’s right. Old content gone. Access to old content gone. Access to new content begins where the new content begins.
Still doesn’t make it right for me in any way. They could have said that the content will be temporary then, so i wouldn’t waste my time. At all. You obviously haven’t been invested in fractals as much as some of us. And because we have been invested into them so much, we’re being punished by taking away one thing in this game we loved the most and not getting anything worth of any value for the time and work we put into it. Developers’ involvement is non-existant in the issue, and because of people like you it makes it all ok. “Hey this guy is cool with it, so everyone is cool with it”. I’m done with this thread and fractals respectively…
What content? An algorithm isn’t content. The only different between EVERY level of Fractals is the difficulty. It keeps getting harder because a program tells it to be harder. It’s not content, it’s not like they actually went and planned out each level and how it would work, they just designed them to be harder.
NOW that isn’t true anymore. They are actually going into the levels past 30 and adding things, things are content. The new instabilities which are supposed to be continually different each level are added content to something that didn’t have added content.
So no content was temporary.
not exactly true, agony changed boss fight mechanics, and some enemies got new abilities. In other parts changing the numbers of enemies changed the best strategies.
However i do believe at some level, the devs said it became 100% the same only scaling in mob stats, my guess is its broken up like the lfg tool, and nothing new happens after 30, other than dmg/def/hp scaling
That’s why I edited out something I put in that I realized was entirely untrue. But it’s still relevant. If nothing new happens after 30, and only things after 30 are removed, then no content is lost.
Tarnished Coast Kal Spiro – Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/WS #SABorRiot
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker
Anet reset everyone to zero and end this stupid debate. I am confident in my fotm abilities to get as high as I want found levels 50-80 boring I welcome the new content + better rewards. I really hope the lore of fotm is advanced by the update. Instabilities giving more insight into each fotm level.
One fear I have is the discouragement this is causing with the upper level fractal runners. Many of my friends are already saying “why should I bother with leveling up the new fractals when everything I did in the old ones was for nothing. What happens when they announce Fractals 3.0, I might as well stay with the herd because that is where the reset will go to.” Followed by “it looks like all rewards can be gained at 30 except for a tonic. I’ll probably just do 30’s for the rewards. And join a champ train in frostgorge with the rest of my time.”
Granted, that is just “sad talk” but still, It is this discouragement that bothers me. Now granted, the competitive bug will mostly like strike many of us again and we will be right there climbing the levels. But there will still be others who will stay discouraged. I will say that this discouragement does make players start looking at other games more (like EQnext). Taking away even perceived equity has a way of demoralizing players and losing loyalty.
One fear I have is the discouragement this is causing with the upper level fractal runners. Many of my friends are already saying “why should I bother with leveling up the new fractals when everything I did in the old ones was for nothing. What happens when they announce Fractals 3.0, I might as well stay with the herd because that is where the reset will go to.” Followed by “it looks like all rewards can be gained at 30 except for a tonic. I’ll probably just do 30’s for the rewards. And join a champ train in frostgorge with the rest of my time.”
Granted, that is just “sad talk” but still, It is this discouragement that bothers me. Now granted, the competitive bug will mostly like strike many of us again and we will be right there climbing the levels. But there will still be others who will stay discouraged. I will say that this discouragement does make players start looking at other games more (like EQnext). Taking away even perceived equity has a way of demoralizing players and losing loyalty.
next level reset would probly be to 50 level up at own risk