Guild Wars 2

Robert Hrouda.1327:

There are multiple living world teams, each with assets from all departments. The initial scope for Canach’s instance was as it is now – we had a shorter time table to build things, so we just wanted to plan for a STORY boss fight (easier) and a multiplayer boss fight (harder). The designer accomplished what we planned to do with it, but we never really considered it a dungeon – that was just a bit of a marketing mistake that set unrealistic expectations as a result of calling it a dungeon on the heels of MF.

Once again, you call it a story boss fight, when it fails to adequately present any form of a story.
- Who is Canach, what is his involvement with the Consortium?
-You explained how Canach found out about Southsun, but not in game, where it should have been.
-Why does Canach want to help the refugees, how is he to help them by killing them all?
- From the website we can gather that hes a little insane, but why? And once again, this bit of information is in the wrong place.
-What are the plants we collected samples from, how is Canach using them?
-How did we trace the plants to Canach, or his lair for that matter?
-What is that robot doing there after we defeat Canach, why do we have to fight it?
-The consortium is at least pretending to be just, and as their only interested lies in profit, I cant fathom why they would risk everything with a preemptive strike against the lionguard.
-If they had not attacked the lionguard with that robot, then they would have appeared as victims of Canach, an organization to be protected and sympathized by the Lionguard, even if their business sense lacks high morals. So why ruin their standing?

When writing a story, you should ‘show’ your audience the events, not ‘tell’ them. But as it is, you’re not even telling us whats going on. If you continue to build a story with so many sinkholes, Southsun Cove is going to collapse like Divinities Reach and sink straight into the sea. And if we wanted an underwater adventure, we already have Orr.

Though I also enjoyed the flame and frost activities and dungeon (my first one ever) I have fallen behind because of the pacing and rl events. The difficulty of Southsun was not fun and I hate dying so I quit and went back to leveling alts and doing dailies. This is where I need to thank Anet. In the lower areas, it has been less crowded and MORE fun now that all the warriors and rude players have left. The other players and myself have played in relative peace and quiet and with much cooperation. I have finally been able to do events and caves that were crowded before or always farmed. I have given up on all this “extra content” and the achievement points as I will never be able to keep up and my only hope is that they return again someday. If not, oh well. I refuse to be pulled into content that is too difficult, not balanced for different characters and is interfering with dailies and map completion for my alts. This extra content does not have any strategy , even less then the “main” game. We need more ability to clear areas, have less mobs that gang up and that can be kited in which DPS is NOT the only factor. Southsun had no strategy. Just a bunch of players walking around group fighting and rezzing each other. There were not any goals to achieve and enemies to defeat or castles to take, just walking around killing monsters, BORING!! From Anet’s perspective it keeps the content burners happy for a few minutes even with insanely hard and unpolished content. For regular players, they kill you a lot and this is a huge gold sink with not much award or large story twists. I’m just going back to the regular maps and my alts and working on my larger goals like legendaries and ascended gear, not be distracted and robbed of all my loot on equipment repair.

Ill agree Mia Lunarfang…this "arc’ of living story was terrible and disjointed.
Ok! Flame and frost is done, we’ve got some refugees…that are…going to southsun for a vacation? And..something is kitten ing off the animals? Ok. Ill bite. Lets go.
Instigator after instigator…and then Some guy named Canach shows up. Who is he? And what are these contracts? Why should I be concerned? What impact did this have overall on the world?

I have NO idea whats going on, unless I read the website’s little story blogs. I try to read the dialogue in game when I can, but it doesnt tell enough.

Even if it was no more than a cut scene of Canach dancing with a Karka, that much alone would have brought a touch of life to this so called story.

Just tried solo-instance few times to get achievement and I am sorry but I have to ask:
Why the hell are RANGER players being PUNISHED again ?
I am surptisingly referring to missing possibility to stow my pet even in combat situations – once again it’s not my favorite companion as it should be, but just annoying ball on chained to my leg :-/
Just failed to get achiev 3-times because my pet had great idea to activate mine.

++another thing is that sometimes when you tamper mine (and it changes to ‘friendly green mode’) it will change back to hostile in second (and Canach was just running behind me – so no rearm or anything) so you want to lure him through your mine and whoop bye bye achiev again! :-/

cesmode.4257:

Ill agree Mia Lunarfang…this "arc’ of living story was terrible and disjointed.
Ok! Flame and frost is done, we’ve got some refugees…that are…going to southsun for a vacation? And..something is kitten ing off the animals? Ok. Ill bite. Lets go.
Instigator after instigator…and then Some guy named Canach shows up. Who is he? And what are these contracts? Why should I be concerned? What impact did this have overall on the world?

I have NO idea whats going on, unless I read the website’s little story blogs. I try to read the dialogue in game when I can, but it doesnt tell enough.

I posted something in another thread about the story, of which there’s actually a good amount but since it’s not a direct narrative you kind of have to work it out unless someone spells it out for you. Basically a lot of the story here is based on the Lost Shores release back in November, where most of these characters were introduced.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/southsun/Why-is-the-Story-So-Disjointed/first#post2116162

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Sure there’s a few things that can be done better (as is with everything), but given the time the designer had to work on the instance, I think he did a great job.

Coming from the company the guys who made “when it’s ready” famous, this is not what I want to see from a red post.

I know there are a lot of people who blast through content the instant it goes live and then demands more, but there are plenty of us who are willing to wait if waiting means the difference between a good update and a great one. Here’s some friendly advice: those guys who blast through content…they’re never going to be satisfied. Those of us willing to wait for polished content, we’re not so hard to please. A little time is all it takes to make us happy; so please, going forward, take all the time you need to make us happy.

i like the 2 boss encounters you came up with.. the bombs make it a bit more challenging to complete. as an ele i can stack cd on canach too, but i prefer the bomb way. i hope more things like that are released in the future, but i would really like if one of the devs or staff tell me, when will there be an expansion that takes more then 2h to complete?
don’t get me wrong.. i like living story, but an expansion would be better

I would like to add to my earlier feedback that I think that the rewards so far have been more than fair:

• Two (!) gorgeous backpack items of opposing styles, account bound.
• Unlimited +200% MF while adventuring in Southsun Cove. This in conjunction with constant events, some with guaranteed chests.
• ~ 180.000 xp, 7000 karma (at level 80), and 1 gold for completing the Canach fight. A daily group boss fight for additional daily rewards.

And this is just the stuff that we all take for granted now.

Vahkris.6847:

I posted something in another thread about the story, of which there’s actually a good amount but since it’s not a direct narrative you kind of have to work it out unless someone spells it out for you. Basically a lot of the story here is based on the Lost Shores release back in November, where most of these characters were introduced.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/southsun/Why-is-the-Story-So-Disjointed/first#post2116162

1. How many players joined this game AFTER the Lost Shores event?
2. How LONG has it been SINCE the Lost Shores event?
Many players who were unable to attend Lost Shores would never know key pieces of the story without doing in-dept research, and doubtless, even many of those who did take part don’t remember all the details. In this you have only proved to us that the story does exist, that however does not excuse its lack of presentation. You shouldn’t have to scour the web to understand the story. A story, and especially and interactive one, should be shown, not told. But they don’t even tell us anything, we have to look it all up. At the very least a recap is expected, in chat boxes if nothing else.

Furthermore, while this tidbit of information does explain who Canach is, it still fails to link him to the current threat. Sure we know that the presence of his men enraged Karka in the past, but we have no idea how he did it this time, or even that it was he who was to blame for that matter.

For Engineers that haven’t done it yet: take a flame turret in. Just sayng.

Honestly, I really don’t like the explorable version of CL. People have a hard time with all the chaos once he gets low. I don’t really think either instance encounter adds much of anything to the game or story, F&F was way better with the instanced content. Here’s hoping Southsun becomes really awesome after these updates because if it doesn’t turn into some cool place you want to go all the time after all of this nonsense then I won’t know why arenanet has bothered with any of this.

Just easily did this with a PUG. 2x mesmer, ele, eng and me as a full toughness warrior. Guess who got all the aggro?

Still, it was easy as pie. A little anticlimactic maybe.

I don’t even get the point of this “explorable”. Waste of developers time. How about you fix some of the more egregious bugs before introducing that kind of “content”. Or maybe do something about the class balance.

We were all wondering why the hell did we even enter this instance after killing the golem and seeing that there was nothing other than that to do.

I had really high hopes for GW2 but after seeing what they’re doing with this game… it’s just disgusting and pathetic. Living story? Really? Is this supposed to be cool and interesting? I wonder if ANet will ever focus on some serious content, like adding some tough and challanging endgame content, which actually gives you a feeling of accomplishment after progressing, beating hard boss, getting achievement for <doing something that DESERVES being rewarded with an achievement>. Add some real dungeons which not everyone will be able to complete on day one… From FOTM you can get all rewards for level20. WHY? (Not that it gets a lot harder up to 48)
Right now GW2 comes down to grinding COF. How cool is that… I love how the devs were describing this game upon release – and what is it now? Ridiculously casual game that only requires you to grind forever to get a few new skins…

I’d really like some info from devs whether they’re going to add challanging content that won’t feel as boring as everything being added in past months. At least I’d know if there’s any reason to keep playing…

Flame and Frost was really cool, the Molten Facility was a lot of fun, if it wasn’t for RNG boxes I would’ve gave it an 8.5/10 as far as temporary monthly content goes, due to the boxes 7/10.

Now Southsun is another story, its great that they are finally making use of the place but overall its just what is in every other map, a whole bunch of dynamic events and a few new achievements. As far as the the new dungeon goes, or should say Boss fight its meh. I really hope they have something really big planned for the conclusion because as it stands now this event has been a bust, oh yeah and more RNG boxes. As of now I give it a 2/10.

Hopefully the next event will be much better and without some BS RNG Box stuff!

So, developers, this is what I’ve gathered from other players; the perfect recipe to a successful living story:
1. start off with the issue, chat boxes are fine and can be simple at first. Of course we wont have the solution to the mystery right out the gate.
2. Thicken the plot with an instance or two.
3.As the plot thickens, -and the plot should thicken, no more of this ’here’s the problem’, ’here’s the conclusion’-, make the chat boxes more detailed and regular in occurrence. Don’t just have the Asura make us run off and collect samples without returning to hear her conclusion. Or even better, elaborate with cut scenes!
4. throw in a meta event somewhere mid to ending plot… this pleases farmers and shows the affect of living story on the world map.
5. finish with a bang the best way you know how; a dungeon. Have the npc’s partake in the battle!!!!
6. Closure and or transition; optional

There was PvE content in this patch? I was done in 1h30, I am kind of sad about that.

My feedback…

Southsun Cove

I really enjoyed this update. The changes to the area were easily noticeable, made sense, and made a difference in how we played in the area. The sort of “dual-faction” mechanic was cool but sort of shallow; I never used the Consortium buff except for the achievement, and I didn’t notice any real difference in how I was perceived or anything based on who I was supporting, etc. The events were fun and quick without feeling punishing. I loved the beach resort with Lady Kasmere and Lord Faren – I spent a good amount of time hanging out there. One thing though: Better resort drinks! Where’s my daquiri?

Crabtoss was a lot of fun. I enjoyed the strategy and the frantic pace of the game. It’s a simple game but fun; I would wish for something like a secondary objective in a future iteration, but really I’d take it as it is. It’s a very fun addition to the game and I’ll be sad when it’s gone.

Canach / NULL

I’ll admit this was a bit of a letdown for me. I enjoyed the puzzle mechanics but I hit a few initial bugs. When I went back later and everything seemed okay, but I just didn’t think the puzzle mechanics were difficult enough. Since the puzzle was fairly simple this content seemed very short. NULL was a little bit more interesting and my group actually had some initial trouble; it required a bit more coordination, and I enjoyed that.

If the Canach fight could have been up to the difficulty of NULL I would have been more satisfied… and if the content had been a bit longer (each dungeon took something like 5 minutes from start to end) then it would have felt like a more substantial conclusion to that arc. As it was it felt very abrupt/short/vague.

Rewards

I like all of the rewards, I think you guys did a good job on this. Please give us a coconut cup with a tiny umbrella for a town clothes weapon.

I’m actually looking forward to the next chapter of the Living Story. Southsun has become somewhat entertaining now that there are hordes of players running around it.

Unfortunately, I was really hoping the WvW improvements would be normal XP as well as World XP. I guess I’m just going to have to accept the fact that leveling a character via WvW activities is far too inefficient and never will be anything close to that rates possible in all other activities in terms of XP, gold and gear. Looks like my “WvW” alt is going to have to end up doing exploration and personal story just like my other characters.

Worst content update ever. It’s so bad it made me break my GW2 forum self-imposed boycott.

My thoughts on the event:

Southsun Cove

Overall, I was quite impressed with the changes to the Living World for this update. Seeing the new fortifications go up on Southsun Cove throughout the event (did you guys notice that new huts/houses and walls were going up around the settlements?) lent a real sense that the world is changing. Hanging out with Lady Kasmeer and Lord Faren (but mostly the former) to listen to their conversation was quite entertaining, as was Job-o-Tron and the shades-wearing Charr. XD I also can’t thank you enough for the introduction of Blooming Passiflora and the increased sources for Karka Shells; prices for those were just out of control, and it’s good that they’re fallen to much more affordable prices. (Although I do think that 15 Passion Flowers for an Exotic Jewel is still absurd.)

Crab Toss

I had loads of fun with Crab Toss. While lag can sometimes be an issue, you also learn to compensate for it fairly quickly. There’s a lot of micro strategies within the game itself, which leads to multiple layers of satisfaction when you end up top scoring or swiping a crab from another player. I would actually love it if Crab Toss were to become a permanent part of the game.

One complaint would have to be about the extremely random nature of the Crabtacular! achievement. As it is now, it basically relies on luck that the entire enemy team will get downed by Karka while you’re still alive. If you have a player who’s AFK, or is skilled at the game, this is almost impossible to achieve. I would have preferred it to be adjusted to something like “eliminate 3 opponents while you’re carrying the Crab” instead.

Events

Overall, the events on Southsun are quite fun (with the exception of the Onyx Fields one. Seriously, invulnerable wurms that one-shot you? They need to be made slower/reduced in number so you can escape from them by running into tight corridors, jumping up on rocks etc.) I do question the way that the rewards for the Instigators were implemented though. Currently most people on Southsun just run between the two events in a never-ending zerg. I’d have made it so that the chests for the Instigators can only be opened once per day each.

Canach’s Lair

I know many players are disappointed with the length of the dungeon, but I actually quite like it. Event dungeons aren’t meant to be long, complicated affairs. I think something along the lines of the Halloween dungeon was perfect, so while Canach’s Lair was still a little short, I still had fun doing it. One suggestion I would make is to reduce the amount of fog in the cave, however. It makes it a bit difficult to see the trap icons above the mines.

A much bigger complaint lies with the reward for the Story Mode version of the dungeon and how it was changed from character-based to account-based. I understand why it needed to be done to stop people creating new characters and running them through the dungeon, but it’s also extremely disappointing for altoholic players like myself. We have to pay more in terms of gold and gems to outfit our characters, but our earning capacity is more or less fixed with that of a player who only has a single main. The rare quests that allow us to earn more rewards for our multiple characters are treasured boons, and it’s quite disheartening to have to lose them due to other players’ greed.

I feel that a better solution have been to scale the reward offered to the character’s TRUE level. For instance, let’s say that the base reward for completing the Story Mode starts at 1 silver and a Sip of Karma for a level 1. The reward then slowly scales up until it reaches 1 gold and a Keg of Karma for a level 80. This discourages people from recycling fresh characters constantly, because the effort to create a character, complete the Tutorial, and bring them over to Southsun to run the dungeon for a mere 2 or 3 silver and a Sip of Karma would not be worth it.

Event Specific Rewards

I’ll just state that I am not a fan of RNG-gated rewards. While I’ve been fortunate in that none of the Fused/Sclerite skins have been to my tastes, this may not always be so. I would much prefer that you adopt a system similar to what the Super Adventure Box did. You can hope to get lucky and get a Rare drop (which can also be sold on the Trading Post), or you can repeat the token to earn tokens that gives you an account-bound version of the skin. This ensures that those who want the skin for their own use can get it, but those who like gambling for skins (possibly for a fat payout when they get a sellable skin) also have an avenue to follow.

Lambent.6375:

To kill him with the mines, use the 1 skill on the detector to reveal the mines, and look for the ones with a bomb symbol at the top, then use your #2 skill(or whichever skill has the bomb sign) on it, and go stand right next to it once it turns green, when Canach comes over it will explode and damage him.

I love how the trigger radius for the boss is much smaller than the one for the player

Guild Wars 2, in my 32 years of gaming, is the one I consider The Best.

I also believe that I’m not the only one to feel that way.

With holding the title of The Best Video Game Ever, comes the expectation of The Best Video Game Content Ever.

Personally, I did Canach in 3 tries (after the first, I knew to take a good hour break before I tried again). Got Null on the first time I went with a full team (two of us spent half an hour to get him down to half health, which was a great opportunity to learn the engine). Fine.

The idea of solo instances, I like. I also agree that the F&F instances were fabulous.

I know there are 2.9 million people who didn’t rant about the content quality, but the ones who do are louder than ever. I like what I’m getting.. but appreciate their expectations.

Keep at it ArenaNET! I have faith, that you too, as gamers, are trying to make The Best Video Game Ever.

I have to give thumbs up to Anet for trying to please everyone. Last F&F some ppl were complaining (U won’t hear the ones that don’t complain) about the enddungeon forcing ppl to pt. Now they made a solo instance and a pt instance with, imo, challenging mechanics.
Now ppl complain of it not being as grand as the F&F dungeon. I liked it all so far, it’s cool, it tells a nice story, and a grand dungeon wouldn’t fit the small portion of living story southsun is.

Imho Anet pleases the vast majority of their community and they listen and do their best.
Keep up the good work Anet, ur game’s da bomb!

Too bad Canach cant be used to fight against all the Elder Dragons, he would kick all their kittens as Elder Dragons dont know how to lay mines. Same for Noll.

Hi…

Canach is the worst instance I have seen in years of MMOs. It’s even worse than the Super Adventure Box, and this was pretty bad already… Oh, and on a side note, there are those “guild missions” that are just impossible to unlock for small guilds (<5-10 active players).
Canach, a single mob that takes damage only by walking into his mines. Great thing that all classes are given the same Mine Detector. That really adds diversity and makes you feel playing your class. On top there are lousy achievements to fulfill inside the instance…

Dont’ get me wrong, on the overall I still enjoy playing the game, but so far, most new “content” just is so bad, that every time I am about to buy gems, I consider this “content” and just come to the conclusion that I must not reward Anet for these “jokes”.

Once there will be real content (meaning, no really annoying but fun to play instances, interesting stories and some at least moderately challenging opponents rather than unappealing environments), I might start to support Anet with money again. Until then, oh well, the old instances and WvW are still available…

So long,
Curu…

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

Guild Wars 2, in my 32 years of gaming, is the one I consider The Best.

I also believe that I’m not the only one to feel that way.

With holding the title of The Best Video Game Ever, comes the expectation of The Best Video Game Content Ever.

Personally, I did Canach in 3 tries (after the first, I knew to take a good hour break before I tried again). Got Null on the first time I went with a full team (two of us spent half an hour to get him down to half health, which was a great opportunity to learn the engine). Fine.

The idea of solo instances, I like. I also agree that the F&F instances were fabulous.

I know there are 2.9 million people who didn’t rant about the content quality, but the ones who do are louder than ever. I like what I’m getting.. but appreciate their expectations.

Keep at it ArenaNET! I have faith, that you too, as gamers, are trying to make The Best Video Game Ever.

Gj, we really need more players supporting ANet and how they are wasting their time on pointless content! The best content ever – are you trolling? Hope so.

I hate how modern gaming is getting more and more casual in almost every genre, GW2 being a shiny example. But I guess this is what ‘players’ want nowdays. It’s a shame, really. I wonder if anyone developing GW2 is also playing it… It becomes more like a parody of a MMO with the new content they are adding.

NCsoft isn’t giving the money from the Gem Store to ArenaNet, so they can’t develop any better content. So that is why we’re getting this mini content and not any real expansions.

I have a couple of problems with the content:

First and foremost, having the group explorable content locked behind solo content isn’t good. I’m fine to ignore content that I don’t want to play and go with the idea that A-Net is providing something for everyone, and I won’t enjoy all of it. But! Having the content that I DO want to play be inaccessible to me until I play in a manner that I don’t want to play — that makes me very unhappy. If solo instances are going to be placed in the game they should never be a road-block to other manners of play.

Secondly, using red and green to mark the mines is not a good design choice. There needs to be some other clue besides color. There are far too many players in Tyria who aren’t able to visually differentiate between red and green and the developers need to understand this and not continue to use this in design. Using color in a solo instance, where a player can’t even get a team member to help out… Well, designers should think about these things.

Are there no daltonians in QA? If there are not A-Net needs to consider hiring at least one and getting them to sign off on new content, the same way that bug testers sign off.

A Net, what did u do to Inspector Null in today’s patch? this isn’t even funny…

Bong.6247:

The best content ever – are you trolling? Hope so.

I think the troll in this scenario is you, Bold.

I didn’t say this IS the best content ever, I stated that the players expect the best video game ever to HAVE the best content ever – so anything less gets ripped up quite vigorously – sometimes with valid critique, sometimes childish fist shaking.

I respec, rebuff, switch gems, improve armor and what did I get? A boss fight that made all my hard work for nothing. WTF?!

Whoever thought that this kind of encounter is fun?

The quality of the contents is diminishing very quickly. I can’t even invite my friend back to play GW2 again with this crappy content. They left because of this type of content and been trying to get them back but it seems that Anet don’t want them back at all.

I like gw2, the lore, the level design, I like how my toons look despite the shared armour models. I like the combat, it’s very satisfying.

But atm i can’t think of 1 good reason to log in for the living story event.

The new content is a let down, as a warrior (Ham/Gs) combat is reduced to hit something>downed state>rally>downed state>rally>heal>hit something>downed state or grab a rifle and undermine all your melee weps OR trying to run away from drakes carring 9 stacks of condition that you had previously cleansed.

If I decide to farm then I’m limited in time and to bad rng.

There is no reason to take out all the vet karka for the 1 shell it drops, I already have all the shells I will ever need, and lets face it, apothecary gear will never be a profitable as it was.

Give us content where we can use our characters skills, I chose a warrior because i like to get up close, I like melee weps I don’t want to have to pick up a generic weapon that turns everyone into the same class, it undermines the whole point of the reason we choose to login on the character we feel like playing today.

you have me until the end of Ssc event, then i’ll decide if i should stay or go.

My opinion on this living story and I will try and explain both sides, things that were done right and then things those were just handled wrong.

Living Story
Initially this was quite interesting and exciting to say the least as we are given a full game and then on top of it new content every month which changes the world – That is an extremely cool idea.
How has it progressed?
With Flame & Frost, I saw a lot of things that were done right, the MF dungeon was both fun, challenging and rewarding for some. I am not the biggest fan of RNG but its natural when it comes to MMO and having some items that only a few players can achieve gives me all the more reason to grind a dungeon. This was still done right!
Last Update -
The transition from F&F to Southsun was quite poor in terms of story, not much made sense even after reading all the content patch.
The actual events, Crab toss and initial activities that require you to search for items was good and reasonable.
The new Canach Lair – solo and explorable mode, I am sad to say is one of the most poorly designed dungeons in the game, if you want to call it a dungeon, it is one room.
Issues with it are as follows, (you will find ideas how to improve):
1. Replay Content – once again you have placed a restriction where repeating it gives us no reward.
(Allow there to be a repeat reward where we might still earn some reward, which is less than the “daily” but still gives us some motivation)
2. Size of the Dungeon – (Anything less than 5 rooms should not be a dungeon unless it is done in a smart manner, just laying 20 mines which u can run past does not make a dungeon)
3. Boss Mechanics – Requires you to drag the boss to a mine
(This is fine is story mode but in explorable, it just gets annoying, I did not find joy in dragging the boss and then get hit by major degen when his hp was under 25% along with stupid invulnerable sparks that also do 2500 dps if you find yourself in their range)

Crab Toss
Initially I found this very annoying and challenging till I mastered it and found myself winning 5 games in a row. A lot of mechanics in this are broken although one would argue that it is not, overall, it’s fun and you get a reward for repeating it. The best thing about this was that I was able to max all its achievements in 2 hrs, which is how these mini games should be and I hope this is left in the game permanently. The only complain is, I do not agree with putting this as party of a the daily achievement every single day of the event.

Adding Temporary Content
This is one of the worst ideas, why is the development teams spending time in making some amazing content such as SAP, MF and then it is taken out of the game….Let the content be permanent it will make the game more rich. What can be temporary is some of the BLT items, promotions which come along.
Leaving this content as permanent will not hurt the game, it will only attract new players who get such a rich game.

Black Lion Chests – RNG System
Ok I understand some items like Everlasting tonics etc which are utterly useless can be kept in the chest for RNG purposes but please do not add weapon, armor skins in the chest. I will gladly buy the skins for a set gem price if you want money on a monthly basis but I refuse to buy it from a RNG system where I am not guaranteed a drop.

What can you do to make the game better in future?
1. Permanent content – Bring back Elite areas like Underworld, Fissure of Woe or maybe something new. These areas need to be insanely hard but also gives you extremely good rewards for groups that can manage. If you want to continue living story please do but always add permanent content at the end, any dungeons should be left for us to revisit. – Designing this must have been hard work, why Archive this…..
2. Mega Super Duper World Events –
a. Dragon Event- What happened to the awesome beta events we played such as the dragon flying over our heads and turning everyone against each other? That was so freaking awesome, that took my expectations so high and then I play the game and I did not find anything even close to being as epic as this.
b. Hunger Games – Once again….almost a year since we played this, are you seriously not going to recycle any of the content that made people fall in love with this game?
3. Bonus weekends – In Guild wars 1 what you did right was to allow players to get a bonus every weekend to do something, allow us to get double karma/exp/gold during weekends like once a month.
Or double rewards for doing certain things, getting 1 achievement point to kill 50 enemies in Charr zone is not motivation enough.
4. Nicholas the Traveler – I know he must have died but please continue his legacy, surely there has got to be a NPC in all of Tyria that wanted to carry this on?
5. RNG items – No more, I request all players to NEVER buy any more RNG items from the Cash shop, don’t waste your money, if we stop buying them, Anet will get the message. I don’t want a “Chance” at buying something when I am spending my hard earned real life money, no one in their right mind should. While I understand having Mystic forge and other money syncs is needed but those are only for in-game currency, this should not be implemented to real life money.
6. Guild Halls & GvG – Both are absolutely required, having a guild and spending 50k influence on unlocking guild missions was not fun, I did not feel a sense of accomplishment but having a guild hall and equipping it with NPCs and then hosting battles here would be so much more fun. GvG, this should have been an obvious, the sPvP in this game is seriously lacking a whole lot.
7. Hall of Heroes – My favorite past time, this made the game all worth it, having intense battles which only got harder as you battled teams 1v1v1 and finally claim the Hall of Heroes, having your team’s name announced served wide, now that was epic.
8. Ranks – ok I like how there are a lot more tiers and animations but they need to come out of the character and not a lame flag that you throw down. It doesn’t even feel like I threw down my rank when the animation is not coming out of my character.
9. Consumable Dedicated Interface Slots – this is not a very big deal but every MMO/RPG has slots or skills for consumables, let us put our food or elixirs in new dedicated slots, so I don’t have to keep my inventory open.

This above is just a short list, I hope my feedback will actually be read and given proper thought, overall this is an amazing game and I hope it will go in the right direction.

My ONLY problem with all of this is the way the characters (specially Canach) were handled.
- Kiel said nothing about Canach’s new look.
- He just attacks us. No speech, no “What are you doing here?”.
- Where were Kiel during the whole fight? That’s right. She was waiting to capture Canach and act like she was the true hero all along (pretty much what Trahearne usually do). It’s hard to like this kind of character.
- After Canach was defeated, we can’t talk to him. It is like the player’s character is not even there.
- Noll’s dialog wasn’t updated. We just captured the guy he was trying to kill, but he says nothing about it. Neither did Turma. Actually, Kiel is the only one that remembers that Canach was arrested.
- Kiel sounds like a glory-hungry idiot. “They won’t be saved by you”. Of course, she couldn’t let Canach looks like a hero, could her? After all, he is the “villain”, and “villains” can’t do anything good. Ever.

I hope that Canach isn’t gone forever now. He is the only good character of this arch, and that’s only because of the things that we were told out of the game.
The thing is, it is easy to make a new post making excuses about his look and behavior, but if this kind of thing doesn’t make it to the game, it really looks like you guys think that the customers are stupid. “Oh, they noticed that we changed something about a character? Oh no, I thought they wouldn’t notice! Better post something on the forums, since we did not explain that in game because we thought nobody would notice”. We are not kids.

My suggestions: Next time, please, put the story in the game. Show us that you don’t think that we are dumb. We are not going to buy any silly explanation that you guys post outside the game simply because it feels like it is nothing more than an excuse for something that was overlooked.
If there is not enough time to make something, please, delay it. Believe me, I would rather have waited for a whole month and end up getting a proper story in a good instance than this. I’m pretty sure a lot of people feel the same. Rushing is always bad.

So, that’s it. Overall, I’m loving the Living Story. Too bad the last update was such a disappointment. You guys were doing so well…

The southsun living story bit is pretty weak. I dont know who Canach is, why he is the way he is, what is the deal with the contracts, why I should care, is anyone else involved, why does he care what happens to the settlers, why are the settlers arguing with negotiators, why are these instigators doing what they are doing, how is canach stirring up the monsters on the island to be aggressive.

What?

A few days ago the last bit of southsun story is revealed and we are ported into an instance to kill…who? Why? Im sorry, I dont feel comfortable killing someone in the game when I hvae no idea why. Just so confused.

The instance was neat, I got a good amount of rares and shells from farming the island this month, and its nice to see southsun have some life(I hope it remains a decent place to farm ALONG WITH ORR)…but other than this, I feel like this was so disjointed and unfinished.

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

1. How many players joined this game AFTER the Lost Shores event?
2. How LONG has it been SINCE the Lost Shores event?
Many players who were unable to attend Lost Shores would never know key pieces of the story without doing in-dept research, and doubtless, even many of those who did take part don’t remember all the details. In this you have only proved to us that the story does exist, that however does not excuse its lack of presentation. You shouldn’t have to scour the web to understand the story. A story, and especially and interactive one, should be shown, not told. But they don’t even tell us anything, we have to look it all up. At the very least a recap is expected, in chat boxes if nothing else.

Yes, it proves that there is a story. However, I must ask, if you develop a character over several bits, and all are relevant, exactly how much “recap” is necessary to make sure complaints don’t appear on the forums? How much is necessary before the developers have to expect players to go onto the official wiki and read up on past events, because recaps getting longer and longer?

The complainers will skip the lore regardless, though, even if it’s in-game. You know how I know? Because you’re doing it now.

Furthermore, while this tidbit of information does explain who Canach is, it still fails to link him to the current threat. Sure we know that the presence of his men enraged Karka in the past, but we have no idea how he did it this time, or even that it was he who was to blame for that matter.

He is linked through in-game content that you can play and see right now. It’s just not presented to you directly in some passive cinematic or a long scrolling text where you don’t have to do anything but be talked to. Even if you ignore the Fervid Censer, which blatantly states it, or the lore bits on the official site and videos released by ArenaNet, here’s the in-game lore bits that link him through the story:

1. Henrika is the NPC that triggers, without player control, the crazed animal attack at Steampipe Steading in Driftglass Springs. After the event, Kiel arrives to interrogate her and she talks about a sylvari that gave her the stuff that caused it, and that her target was the records (i.e. the contracts they all signed). Kiel suspects Canach here.
(http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspector_Ellen_Kiel)
2. Henrika later, at Pearl Islet where the gate is, specifically states it was Canach. This is far easier to see because it’s her default dialogue.
3. A conversation between Noll and Inspector Kiel reveals that the places that the animals are targeting hold records, and that the copies on the mainland are already destroyed. (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspector_Ellen_Kiel)
4. Kiel’s second mail, at the beginning of to players states that they’ve identified that Canach is responsible, and players are asked to help bring him to justice. Interestingly enough, clicking Show Me in the email gives an even further piece of information…that he’s suspected to be hiding out in Bakestone Cavern.
5. Going to Bakestone Cavern, you discover a portal entrance with a Lionguard Deputy stating that Kiel’s hunch was right, and that Canach is inside.

There are definitely holes in the story, and it’s not perfect, but the pieces are definitely there.

I was more interested in the psychotic downfall of the omelette achievement Sylvari than Canach.

Seeing her whole crew gone and her conversing with straw men. The feels. :C

This Living Story update is a bit of a mixed bag, but I have to say I’ve enjoyed it as a way of cleaning up Southsun Cove and making it a better place to adventure in over all. The original Southsun died off after Lost Shores, which was an awesome event even with it’s once in a lifetime nature. I liked beating back the karka, building the outposts and watching the servers burst into flames as giant karka squished countless peoples during the final event.

But after that the place stagnated. People went there for the rich ori node and little else. There were events, but not enough of them. I still enjoyed going there just because the enemies where a challenge, but I was never really drawn to there outside of adding the guild missions.

This update fixes that, there are plenty of events now and I can chain around the island all day do-gooding and feel like I’m actually getting something out of it. My favorite one isn’t even an event. I must save that little party of dancers every time I walk out of Pearl Inlet. The party must go on! I think the back items and achievements were nice and the random dialog helps fill things out and made me realize that I was a hobo. :P

Robert Hrouda already mentioned this concerning the Canach instance/boss fight/dungeon confusion, but I think the main thing that hurt this branch of the living story was the focus of the messaging. It played up the Canach story so people were expecting something along the lines of Rox and Brahmin’s stuff in Flame and Frost. But this update’s real focus seems to be about cleaning up and improving the standard Southsun experience. Once the Karka Queen becomes a world boss, Southsun reaches parity with other areas of the world map and hopefully will continue to be a great place to adventure in.

This event isn’t over yet so I’m willing to eat crow once the finale starts. :X

The big things that I take away from it so far…

-Keep on message, if it’s a dungeon/storyline style update, make sure it’s known. If it’s a zone improvement focused update, make sure you focus on that aspect. Instance/dungeon/etc. can have some unexpected weight behind them. I enjoyed both fights, but the messaging helped make the let down here I believe.

-I think a hand full of simple cutscenes would have helped bridge the content between areas better. If you weren’t careful you could totally miss Lionguard Kiel talking to the settlers and learning about Canach. If it was more of an event chain instead of her just appearing, pacing would have been better. These one and done scenes have been done before for Halloween. Enter the area, get the scene carry on, etc. The mail messages helped to bridge things, but they do take you out of the immediacy of it all.

-Something to explain the transition from Canach to Null in the boss instance would have been nice too. A “What is that thing!? We’re going to need back up!” runs away kind of deal.

-The rewards this time around have been nice. I like the back pieces and the fact they weren’t impossible to acquire. Special armor merchants (even if they’re just stats not skins) is a nice touch to the final event, etc. The only thing I’d recommend is maybe at the end of these types of events is to reward the player with one ticket for the special event weapon skins. I got my fused ticket on the last day an hour before the update removed them. Totally selfish request here.

-More Canach! I like him better than Rox and Braham combined. I just wish he had more hooks with the rest of the living story. If he had made an appearance during the Molten Facility dungeon to kind of lead us to Southsun, it would have been great.

I thought the rewards were more than fair considering the scope of the encounter. Compare the rewards of that, to the rewards of completing say, the Grenth Temple. An event that takes multiple coordinated 80s and can fail at any time and takes much, much longer. In fact I can’t think of another activity in the game that has had of high of a time to reward ratio. It’s obvious they REALLY want people playing living story content.

Vahkris.6847:

Yes, it proves that there is a story. However, I must ask, if you develop a character over several bits, and all are relevant, exactly how much “recap” is necessary to make sure complaints don’t appear on the forums? How much is necessary before the developers have to expect players to go onto the official wiki and read up on past events, because recaps getting longer and longer?

The complainers will skip the lore regardless, though, even if it’s in-game. You know how I know? Because you’re doing it now.

How much of a recap you ask? Enough to know what they’re talking about, enough to understand who it is that’s causing this trouble and how… I’m not asking for much. Two or three chat boxes, or a simple cut scene would suffice.

Here’s an example. Part one with Levi after we collect samples:
Levi- Thanks, after your hard work I’ve been able to trace the crazed behavior pattern to a drug induced in these wildflowers.
Player- Can we neutralize it?
Levi- Not yet, but we may be able to trace it. This poison leaves a residue and if we just follow its trail…
Player- We’ll teach that warmonger to mess with the peace! (tough response) I believe in you levi, inform me when you find more (love response) We can put an end to this madness (noble response)

Part two after update. A mail will inform you that they traced the residue back to this cavern. Enter instance and talk to Keil:
Keil- I’m glad you’re here, that blasted Sylvari retreated deep inside this recess, only I cant risk to send my men past these mines. Why cant prisoners stay behind bars?
Character- Who?
Keil- Canach, the instigator of the Karka aggression on Lionsarch. Only this time it seems it was intended.

This would effectively connect the game-play(collecting samples) to the problem (karka attacks), the problem to the location(the cave), the location to the villain(Canach), and the villain to his background(lost shores). Those two simple dialogues I suggested, would fill all the plot holes.

And as for complainers skipping the lore regardless, I am one of these so called complainers and my only issue is the way in which they present the lore. Do you seriously think I would care enough to type paragraphs about how weak the story was if I would ignore the lore anyways? Obviously I quite enjoy lore, but the lore about the story in which we are living, should exist in the game so we can live it. Its a very simple rule of story telling; show, don’t tell.

You noted that there were some events/npc’s who release these details… but I and many others have been running all over Southsun and have never uncovered them. They should be presented more strongly, at key points of the story, not just flung out randomly, where one may or may not witness them.

All I have to say: This so called living story is just bah. It offers very little content, 80% or more of it is limited in time. The content in general is mostly boring, you get very bit you have to do through mails and achievements. There is no exploration by yourself. The events are very core based mmo stuff (boring). They could do so much to support the story that should have been told but they don’t really do that (ok, South Sun did way better than the Flame & Frost on this part). Now the story is… just not there. Every News about the new update tells us the whole story in 3 sentences. The rest of it get spoilered by achievements. It is flawed, characters are very weak, there are just a few rags of information, lose ends, no backround. Everyone can write that and that’s not what I expect from a team of profis.

Just for example: Why do we had to stop Canach? We don’t get much information in the game, so lets look at what we get outside of the game (another point I get really angry at: a LIVING ingame story shouldn’t be told in blogposts and 3 minute videos on youtube; there is already very little story content, so please build that in the game): Canach has a vicious plan. Canach just wants to help peoples! (wait what, that is getting interesting, watch out what comes next) —>Stop Canach pls. Err. Öh? Ok just do it. We don’t now why he is in that cave or how they found him there or why they can’t stop him and why we have to fight him alone and why the golem didn’t help him in the first place and why he lives in a minefield and why he is evil and what his plans really are and why he caused them. I mean I never expected anet to go and explain how he got the animals to be angry and why animals (that would actually need a good story writer who would have come up with way better ideas anyway). But all you get at the is Canach saying he wanted to stop the consortium and held the settlers (never said why, probably because Kiel didn’t let him) and stupid Kiel (such a dumb character) just saying “shut up, I don’t care what you say, you are evil, bb”. How can you possibly give a character that is supposed to settle a dispute and investigate it to gather facts such a attitude (to judge people without facts). She doesn’t speak with you as well.
I could go on and on and on with stuff that makes the living (and also the personal) story so weak that it couldn’t even called a story anymore. But that would probably lead into nowhere. So I will just sum up a few constructive points what should be done better in my opinion:

1. Bind the story in the game, don’t tell them trough blogs and videos.
2. Go deeper with the story. Build in compelling twists; strong, believeable characters and think of a richer backround than just “he is the evil guy, go stop him, end of the story” and link it to a complex web: That is one of the most important points to make a story feel whole (a thing that gw2 has done the worst it can possibly be and that makes me so sad).
3. Use events to support the story. Similar to Southsun but more enhanced.
4. I don’t want to sound offensive but for me it seems like that you need new story writers to accomplish point 2 and 3.
5. Don’t spoiler everything. May it be through blogs, videos, achievements: Everything gets spoilered at the moment or becomes very foreseeable. Give mysteries throughout the story, shadow the end and let the player discover it through story twists. But every good story writer should know what I’m talking about.

I hope I got everything together. If I missed something I will edit it here.

bravoart.5308:

I was more interested in the psychotic downfall of the omelette achievement Sylvari than Canach.

Seeing her whole crew gone and her conversing with straw men. The feels. :C

Yes Awesome.

I’m sorry to say the whole Southsun Cove experience has been one disappointment after another and this latest addition was no exception. Thoughts below:

1. Canach and Sub-Director Null should have been either together in a soloable instance, or together in a group instance (preference for me would have been soloable). To introduce one NPC villain you have to defeat with a mechanic, then another with the exact same mechanic feels like a waste of time. One instance, give different fight mechanics for different villains. Make it interesting. Not repetitive, not gimmicky.

2. This content feels rushed and not up to the level of quality “Flame & Frost” was. I think that the May 14th patch and the May 28th patch should have been one patch, released together and given a little more love in the way of story-telling and transition. We go from events in “Flame & Frost” to Southsun and we’re not really given a solid connection. What I mean by that is, one or both of the NPC’s from “Flame & Frost” should have gone with the heroes to Southsun to check on things. This would have been a much better transition in than Lionguard whoever that we only know a little about, going to poke rabid monsters in Southsun.

3. Crab Toss: I thought this was fun, though not entertaining enough to hold my interest for more than a few rounds. I’m ‘OK’ at it, having gotten a lot of second and third places. I think the weapon variety could be a bit better but other than that, not an all together bad experience. Possibly the best part of Southsun to date.

4. Rewards: While the ‘Cthulhu Backpack’ was a great upgrade for my guardian, once I made it an ascended back piece, the stats for those not a bunker build are kind of worthless. Great for a skin if you have an ascended back item already, but there’s probably more people than not, that would have liked the chance to make a non-Fractal ascended back item that they could actually use. Similarly, I feel the same way about the other gear items added to the game. The mini is cute though.

Closing Thoughts: This latest batch of updates really needed a writer’s love. If you’re basing a game about the progression of a story through chapters (aka. The Living Story) you need to capture the imagination of those sinking their time and effort into following it. You’ve introduced some interesting characters with Eir’s son (whose name escapes me presently) and Rox and they should have come along to Southsun to check on the refugees they worked so kitten freeing. As a writer myself, I would kill for an opportunity to write a Living Story chapter so it makes me do the /headdesk every time a potentially awesome story like this gets turned into a Tyria B-Movie.

Looking forward to the next chapters and hopefully more from established characters.

This is my feedback;

I expected a larger dungeon. I also expected NULL to be a rampaging golem in a one-time event. That said, NULL is one of the best boss encounters in the game. It needed the trinity you guys claimed to be in the game, Damage, support and CC not Damage, Damage and more Damage. And a well coordinated group that had all these things would be able to take the boss down amazingly easily.

I think you guys are getting a hang of what you need to do to make dungeons challenging but not cheap. Canach was too easy though and he didn’t pose a threat at all, if you guys made his auto-attack hit a lot harder (Cos COME ON! This guy cleared Molten fac. on his own!!!) it would have had a bigger sense of urgency and a bigger sense of accomplishment at the end.

I’m hoping for bigger and better living stories in the future.

Why did the moderators change the title of this thread? It was specifically about the mechanics of the encounter. If the moderators want to do damage control, then they should start their own feedback thread, and sticky it instead. The manipulation of customers is very unprofessional. I would expect this from EA, but i guess Arena-Net wants to join that list too.

bullettohead.9715:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Guys I know its not much, but lets be realistic. We get so much content for this game. We’ve had 2 living story updates in the period of a month. Lets just be content with this for now lol. F&F was obviously more exciting but that also was the end of a 4 month living story arc.

Absolutely not. I will not “be realistic”. With Flame and Frost showing us they CAN make good dungeons, this entire thing is downright atroscious. There is NO defense for their kittenty content update. I will not just sit down and say “oh okay well they tried their best”. They didn’t. This was terrible and anybody defending it is outright wrong.

I’m not much of a connoisseur or dungeons, but I will say that I would trade in every single new content update for a patch where they systematically went through and fixed all the known bugs. Some bugs have been known about forever and nothing has been done, while others had “fixes” released without proper testing, leading to more bugs.

If you’re going to forgo proper bug fixing in favor of stacking bandaid upon bandaid because you’re pouring your resources into new content, it had better be the kittening Mona Lisa of new content. And clearly, this is not that.

Living Story- Southsun Package

• Considering the small team that put the Southsun Live Story together and the short amount of time they had to complete; I enjoyed most of the content. The two back-pieces have actual skins. I did feel the time and effort to receive the two back-pieces was too easy and quick to receive. I was able to complete the quest to receive the rare back-piece (flow) in a short afternoon. I was not solely focused on completing the quest therefore took more time than needed. Granted, without the help of fellow players, it would have taken more time. Compare this quest to the quest from Halloween to receive the Masterwork back-piece: You had to traverse a multitude of maps using hints. Without the help of any guides or people giving you the location, this could be tough. The Masterwork reward was sufficient for the amount of effort you put in. You receive a gold back-piece for half the time and effort in Southsun. In a nutshell I think receiving two back-pieces, one gold and one exotic and could be completed in one sitting was too casual. If I’m going to earn nice rewards, I want to exert time and concentration into the quests. Casual quests/event should reward Masterwork Items with the exception of "endurance quests that play out through several episodes.
• I enjoyed the Crab-Toss mini-game and felt it was spot on for a mixture of Challenge/Fun. Once you got the hang of it, it was a blast.
• The story line was lacking information preventing me from connecting with the lore.
  – Canach’s implementation as a key rival was rushed and forced. Reminded me of how Trahearne was suddenly a key NPC in the game. “The transformation from a noble, respectable citizen, to mysterious, powerful rival”; When and how did this all take place? Granted if you followed Robert in the forums and read all dialog/posts, then you could had figured out how everything fit into place, but not all players go that length, if the lore isn’t played out with the player involved, then the story becomes diluted and hard to follow. Cutscenes from F&F were a good connection point for players to connect to the story .
  – From unknown to captured; this is how fast Canach was revealed. Where were was the story finding Canach and pinpointing him to his Layer?

How has it progressed?
ArenaNet has taken the recommendations and requests from players, approved on their mistakes to build a more fluent and thorough Living World. For the most part I think the team has done a good job improving. If you were around from the first Southsun event, then you remember the mass of players trying to do the one-time event. Half of us never received our rewards until later in the Mailbox.
*A gradual approach with an exciting ending- Flame and Frost came in extremely slow and ended too quickly. Building wooden signs, Reviving injured refugees, was not interesting or fun. It played a tiny role to the introductory to F&F, but was in the game for the longest period of time. The dungeon was a great addition and was challenging. The dungeon was only in the game a brief period of the game but served as the finale. Settlers were also in 3 different Major Cities, but why are there no remnants of them in Hoelbrak or The Black Citadel now? Seeing an actual change would have been nice. Maybe by adding a few small huts being built for refugees? Some reflection that represents a change in the world and had a permanent consequence. Another part in which I hope the ArenaNet team saw and are working to improve.

The connection point from the first Southsun event to F&F was null & void, but that’s excusable. The one thing that is confusing for me is who the “ally” is and who “enemy” is. Not a fan of helping both groups. One minute you’re fighting Canach, the next you’re fighting Subdirector Null/Golem. Wait what’s going on? I want more definition on the plot. Southsun currently is a mixing bowl with everyone against everyone attitude. Not exciting.

Going Forward
In the future I hope to see more defined, challenging content that has me connected with story and NPCs. I think rewards from the Living Story should be earned instead of slouching through the content. Weapon/Armor/Trinkets should be earned using a mark similar to the dungeon design, not the “RNG” design currently in place. I’m happy with the miniatures being RNG/boxes but not the awesome weapon skins that F&F had. I don’t want to “jump the gun” on my previous statement since I read you can trade Karka shells for weapon/armor/trinkets after the players hold all camps. I like that design.
When it comes to the Living World I would also like to see more permanent content in the mix. A balance between the both would be nice. I want to be able to go back to Southsun later in the year and see a few new residents (settlers that stay) and play quests/events that relate to the previous living story.