Guild Wars 2

@Ewon, I have to say that was well put. I have given this more thought that I normally do. I got to thinking. I broke 10k back in May. only at 11.8 now so it goes to show I have completely fallen off the board and my desire to ap hunt no longer exist.

Many times it has been said. If the changes don’t affect you then why do you care.
imo, this is a valid statement. Why do some people, who don’t ap hunt really care? I can’t answer that. I have my speculations, but saying them would appear as trolling. But I got to thinking. Do I care if a change is implemented in the game that will in no way affect me? No I do not. Indirectly yeah it would I suppose, but is it enough for me to whine about it. Again no.
Having been an ap hunter from the beginning of the game, but making a choice that is not the direction I wish to go back in May, I understand the time and grind and hardcore dedication it takes.
I agree to be at the top of the board should show a person is seriously dedicated to the game, but to say it should be a mindless grind of menial task. No I do not think that should be what establishes those at the top. The problem is, for many that is how they got there. You all are really in between a rock and a hard place.
I wish you the best in getting something done, for you and for the game.

danielrjones.8759:

I wish you the best in getting something done, for you and for the game.

Thanks you.

and thank you for taking the time to understand where we are coming from, as not many are willing to do that.

Heta.8629:

If you increase overall AP gain it would mess with the in game economy because of the gold, laurels, and rewards that are given in the 500 point chests.

In the most extreme case, it would give some players 10 more AP/day, which means one more chest every 50 days, which is roughly 10 gold/laurel a year, except if they hit a 5k tier. The other rewards being account-bound, the impact on the economy would be almost non-existent.

Time invested should equal greater rewards.

This is exactly how the leaderboard functions. Those are the top are the ones that played every day since launch. On the other hand, the daily AP gain has always been gated, the suggestion we are discussing won’t change this. People can invest more time to finish the permanent achievements they have left.

Being at the top of a leaderboard means something and you cheapen it by giving more AP for doing less. If you can’t or won’t put in the time to do every daily then you deserve to fall in rank. I believe a true completionist would still complete all the achievements even if there were no reward in order to feel that they have completed the content fully.

Sorry but being at the top of the leaderboard means almost nothing (and I am top 20 eu). Giving more AP for doing less, as you said, will have no impact on the leaderboard since all or almost all the players in the top 1000 currently do all their dailies and will continue to do so whether or not this suggestion is implemented, keeping their advantage.
I also want to point out that setting up a competition where you only win because the others burn out should not be supported by Anet or anyone. This is the direction the AP-hunt is currently following, and the very reason of this thread.

Felbryn.5462:

Ewon.5903:

I’m not looking to make this easier, I’m aiming to shift the focus back to the “permanent” achievements.

So…why not just make the leaderboard ONLY count the permanent achievements, and ignore dailies entirely?

That would actually make the leaderboard more meaningful, IMO.

Right now, achievement scores are so diluted with tons of daily AP that the leaderboard is absolutely meaningless except as a neon sign that says “Hey! I Spend Lots of Time Farming Dailies”.

ANet saw this same problem in action back when there was no AP cap on the salvaging achievement. At that point, they changed it AND reset achievement scores to remove the excess points. The only difference between that and the absurd daily farming is the time gating.

The update is live. How are we looking for daily achievements? I’m at work so i won’t be able to check for several hours.

I’m hearing that x number of wins are needed in both solo and team arenas. Didn’t they try the wins in team arenas before and it did not go over very well?

EDIT: The new dailies will require 5 wins in solo queue and 3 wins in team. This alone could easily double the amount of time it takes to do dailies.

Question for those who were against my suggestion. Are any of you actually going to do these new dailies?

Sorry Ewon, but im going to disagree with you here.

You ‘compulsion’ to hunt down every achievement point, is your problem. Why should other people lose out on having fun spamming achievements (if thats what they consider fun) and getting a leaderboard spot?

You need to solve your problem for yourself, not ask ANet to change it just so you dont have to deal with missing out on some AP daily.

Even for completionists that stuff is optional because it resets every day and there is no counter that shows like 7/9 dailies where you could see that you missed one of them. This mainly because there are no different sub achievements that have a permanent entry in the achievement tab like 29th november dailies, 30th november dailies.

It only gets you more AP but you still might have missed some AP somewhere and don’t know it because it is never shown anywhere. They would first need to show this somewhere.

So just ignore it if you don’t like to farm. It’s not like there is a pet missing from some bank slot or something else similar to that. Only some AP which never will be complete. Otherwise you all would be at top of AP leaderboard with same AP and there even is only 1 I think and the 2nd already has not max AP which means he missed something.

Edit: But now actually having read your suggestion – sorry I was a bit fast and only read the first part of the post – I want to say:

It is a good suggestion. Because it also makes the difference between those AP grinders and other normal players smaller. Everyone would get the same AP and not some guy doing nothing but farming for hours getting more AP(bad idea… AP worthless not showing how good someone really is and this is even more so if you let some people farm 1 AP and get more and more than others).

So not a bad idea.

But I also would suggest to remove AP leadearboards. People can still post screens and show off their big AP numbers. But no leaderboards(then maybe less people would force themselves to grind AP).

Leaderboards should show real accomplishments. Not only grind. And sPvP and WvW this is possible(okay WvW it means coverage of server ha ha). PvE maybe some timed challanges or hardcore stuff for dungeons and groups. Kill 10 champions in 1 minute or stuff like that(actually kill x champions in 1 minute and then making leaderboard who killed the most).

First off, I put a lot of time into this since I lost my internet connection right after I stumbled across this topic. This makes an abstract necessary:
At first I will outline why the current system is flawed and should be overhauled. I will try to outline the situation of people (ppl) like Ewon, so that people who are less into achievement hunting have a better understanding of what this thread is all about. After giving the reasons why I think the current system is bad I will give my ideas: first I will supply possible compromises that could partly solve the problem before I present my ideas for a complete overhaul of how achievement hunters could get their achievement points without grinding dailies.
Introduction
The way high level achievement hunters have to repeat daily achievements over and over again reminds me of a “game” we had played in physical education once. We had to take a stance that would start to hurt after some time – the winner was the one who would give up last. I don’t think it is necessary to say that we did not consider this game to be fun…

1. Reasons why I think the current system is bad

1.1 AP Ladders are stuck this way

As you might have already noticed strongly agree with Ewon when he says the daily achievement system should be overhauled; I salute him for how eloquent he expressed the problem. Before I go on I want to address the claim, that lowering the cap of daily achievement points, with my own story. To not go into too many details: At the mindless moment I decided to start achievementhunting I found myself having ~6000 achievementpoints (aps) while hardcore achievementhunters were at around 11k. I actively stopped myself from achievement hunting after a year or so (best guess), which was quite a struggle since it somewhat rendered every minute useless that I had spent on grinding dailies since I know would never get on that list. When I stopped I had around 12k ap when the best had already hit 18k. I would guess that I missed like 6 aps per day on average (due to days where my routers wouldn’t work) – this was also at the time when daily pvp temporarily included tournament participation – and all in all 5aps in the living stories. So while I had nerded to get aps to the maximum extent possible for someone studying at an university, people like Ewon had increased their difference in aps to me by another 1k. Even though I also had an easy time picking up some easy regular aps along the game that I hadn’t gotten before like jps!
But what do I want to say with this heart worming story? I say that there is no way newcomers can make up for the difference in aps in the current system! But even I (as I had been such a newcomer that didn’t even stand a chance to make up for the time I had missed) ain’t even mad! Why should anyone have a higher rank than eg. Ewon (wonderful example; sorry if overused ) if he had put sooo much time and effort in getting those aps. No newcomer could possibly spend more time on hunting achievement points unless Ewon stopped. Thus, even though the (ap) ladder should be a bit more flexible than it is now it should not be as unsteady as a candle in the wind. It’s not its purpose!
But what about the people that are close to the top and might have a more realistic chance to draw even with eg. Ewon? I would guess (and please correct me if I am wrong) people on the top of the leaderboard gain most of their new aps through dailies/monthlies/living story since the regular achievements that are not “ransaker 9” or something similar are already completed. Well, everybody on that level gets the aps for the living story stuff. This leaves only dailies/monthlies as the primary way to get more aps than competitors. Following that logic the guy that is ranked 3rd in NA can do all dailies and hope that Ewon will miss some in order to make up for points. Thus, I claim that the idea of Ewon, to cap the amount of daily achievement points you can get off dailies, would, taken into practice, not really accommodate the ranks, as they are now, much more as the current system does. It would; however, lessen the effort everyone who loves aps has to put into doing boring grind. Thus, I claim that if you would make a survey, in which the top1000 (ap) of both eu and na would being asked if they would like to preserve the daily achievements as they are now, I would bet that most would like to change it, when given a practicable alternative. I do not think though that they want a system that is (to use the metaphor again) a candle in the wind since it would render their own progress useless as well.

1.2 It is not fun

It’s not fun. After (at least) semihardcore achievement hunting for only a year I personally felt quite burned out and like doing a chore. While it is obvious that it is (and must be) quite an effort to be high ranked on any ranking list in a game like GW2 it doesn’t have to be as monotone as it is now.

1.3 Forcing players to complete content in a specific timeframe causes problems

Even a system for hardcore payers should allow for breaks and playtimetime peaks like in holidays or weekends. The pressure based on doing something in the timeframe of one day only causes trouble.
- You had a lot to do today and it is 2 minutes to 1am – you are at 20 shiverpeak kills. 30 seconds to go you only miss 5 kills! If you manage to get the achievement in time – fine! You might even feel satisfied for a few minutes. But if not I can tell you that you are mad for quite a while as you know that you not only missed that ap but also wasted some minutes 100% on a grindy, boring, activity.
- It’s not fun having to get up at 3am to get your dailies done before you go to your university because you are gonna visit your parents afterwards and know that you won’t have any chance to play again this day.
- Now that I stopped trying to do all dailies I see how stupid the system really is. One day I play pvp for several hours and the very next day I don’t get my daily pvp. In comparison, if I had spent the time on pvp the way anet wants it I would have gotten double the aps. + I really need those glory boosters!…sike

1.4 Dailies prevent you from actually playing the game

Another problem is that during that year I saw myself wasting time, I actually needed for my family and friends (and most importantly ) for myself, on a self induced chore. Ok that is the nature of hardcore stuff. But it did not only limit my rl time, but also the time you waste on dailies is time you can’t play the content you like in the very game you play – but not play at the same time! (that was deep I know ) I have some friends ingame that at times can not join me with fracs or dungs or bullying that guildy, because they have to do daily (and no I am not talking about the 5 you have to do ). (Btw, exo if you stumble across this – I ain’t even mad that you let me down several times; I know how you feel in those situations)

1.5 Negatively condition content that is included in dailies

Furthermore, as I mentioned, doing dailies becomes a chore. In the past I loved doing activities (kegbrawl <3 vote for teamarena kegbrawl! like dwanya vs grenth tpvp in gw1). Since I am forced to do them on a daily basis I see myself afking them most of the time when it is one of those where leeching does not hurt anyone (crabtoss, sanctum etc…)
Now some of you might think that afking is stupid from an ap farmers pov since there are achievements I get only for participating in those like collecting crystals or carrying crabs. I; however, thought that I could do those later – they will always be there and even if I drop some ranks now because somebody does those in favour of a single daily – I will come out on top in the end! Hell I didn’t even care about getting the dungeon completionist in a timely manner since the hobby dungeon achievement is capped, so I would get it maxed someday anyway. Dailies preventing people to do other achievements – nice!

1.6 Daily achievementpoints undermine the value of regular achievementpoints

My last argument against the acquisition of more achievement points through dailies once you have the basic set, is that it gives a false impression of how much people play or how much skill they have. The point is not that it does not properly show that you spent time on the game, the problem is; however, that people with low achievement points might have played as much or more. Not only have some pvp pros only 3k achievement points but also I see people with several legendaries having way less aps than even I have. Basically, this system veils how many “regular” achievement points you have – even though those tell you more about the player – since you have no chance to see that number!
In addition, daily achievements prevent you from doing regular achievements. This seems paradox I know! Here is an example: I talked before about how I was afking some of the daily activities, now some of you might think that afking is stupid from an ap farmers pov since there are achievements I get only for participating in those like collecting crystals or carrying crabs. I; however, thought that I could do those later – they will always be there and even if I drop some ranks now because somebody does those in favour of a single daily – I will come out on top in the end! Hell I didn’t even care about getting the dungeon completionist in a timely manner since the hobby dungeon achievement is capped, so I would get it maxed someday anyway. Dailies preventing people to do other achievements – nice!

1.7 Conclusion

I could go on about this much longer but this is already a huge wall of text (sorry for that…no not really if I can write this for hours you can read it in minutes). I hope I was able to give those of you who didn’t see the bad site of dailies before a little insight into the situation of an achievementhunter.
But let’s be constructive. Before I give my ideas for a complete overhaul I will give some examples for possible compromises.

2. Ideas to solve the problem

2.1 Compromises
(Ewons proposal would fit in this category)

2.1.1 Mild changes
Keep the chest at 5 dailies but cap the max number of ap you can get every day at a number that sounds reasonable to you. This would not require to limit the achievements to chose from – it would only make it impossible and thus unnecesary to do too many of those. Since there wouldn’t be any other enhancement of the situation of achievement hunters I would recommend 5 silver / additional daily you do (Hell- even pvpers get money now ). Ofc there would also have to be a similar system for pvp.

2.1.2 Not-too-crazy changes

As an alternative it would be possible to introduce weeklies – not as an additional chore for poor Ewon but to help battle the problems that emerge with having to do stuff within the short timeframe of one day. I could imagine for example to exclude daily activity but to introduce a weekly: participate in 5 rounds of activities. Another example would be: kill 100 shiverpeakers and 5 vet shiverpeakers, magumajunglers, ascalonians and krytans. – then it would be really something that would reward for playing the game since you would get those along the way and not a reward for playing in a way that is not intended (eg. traveling to diessa to kill those 3 vet ghosts in the bottom left corner)

2.2 Complete overhaul

OK now to the ideas I have for a complete overhaul of how you get most of your ap once you got the regular achievements that are already in the game. As I envision it, dailies should be capped at the ap you get with the chest – I do not suggest to limit the choices tho! I would recommend to introduce the 5s/additional achievement that I mentioned before. Now instead of dailies there should should be 2 new primary ways of getting achievement points (only talking about new ways of acquisition not living story achievements etc.)

a) A multitude of new challenging achievements.
This is supposed to factor the skill of players. Thus, it would be an idea to enable ppl to see the count of those achievements separate from the rest.
Those achievements should be about the difficulty of Liandri (I hope I got the name right) but do not necessarily only apply to new content. The first idea I would have for such an achievement would be regarding the dynamic event in the south eastern corner of the diessa plateau where you have to catch those skales with the help of that rifle the npc gives you. The achieve would require you to catch several of those skales in very,very quick succession. Actually this is a terrible achievement and not even I would like it but maybe you get the idea. This would also have the positive effect of revitalising parts of a beautiful Tyria that are not so frequently visited. The thing with these “challenge achievements” would be that they grant a very good ap/time but require more skill. I would love to see tons of those achievements since it is basically new content without having to make changes to the world, but I guess one would have to wait for the feedback since it would be stupid to make more than 50 of those when only 2% of the playerbase participated in those.

b) Infinitely repetitive achievement point lines.
First off, I am not convinced that this is actually a good idea – it might as well be a disastrous one! I guess it would depend on how players would psychologically receive it. Ok here we go:) This should tell other players more about how much you played, while ignoring less play styles (such as alting).
dungeons (counter for each), fractals (counter for each), tourneys (+one additional ap line about wins as a further incentive), personal story steps (for those people alting), wvw lines for each objective, open world champions (for farmers) + world bosses, dynamic events, some achievement line for traders (more complicated), etc. (jps would be complicated to balance/counter for each?)
Now several of those lines already exist but they are capped (dungeons/fracs) and/or require tons of times spent for very little aps (wvw). I would like them to yield a steady amount of aps that is balanced with the other ap lines I just introduced. Also this amount of aps/time should be balanced with the time spent on additional dailies right now. How much time/ap that is can be figured out with empiric data.
OK, I see myself that this would definitely raise the stakes for those at the top of the ladder. This forum topic should have brought some of you here – how would you evaluate this change? Would you feel forced into playing all day to not loose ranks? Or would you embrace this as a chance to finally do all the stuff you want?A problem might be that some ppl might spend way longer on a dungeon than others without having less skill but rather less motivation to adapt to the zerker/corner/rush meta.
Now if this would be a real patch some people might be angry since they are way behind in aps because they hadn’t been incentivised (sorry I don’t know the correct form for that word in this case– non native here ) to go for achievementpoints before but would like to compete now. However, as I said before – I would hate to see the ranks as they are now shuffled around big time.
Maybe go for a combination of these infinite lines + challenges as an additional score to be seen next to the old one (would not solve the leaderboard problem, however).

16.500 APs and I totally agree with the OP.

I would welcome such a change very, very much.

Also agreeing to this, I feel the achievement system in the game still has a long way to go and this would be a step in the right direction.

In case anyone hasn’t noticed, 100%’ing dailies now requires a total of EIGHT ranked wins.

@hellmasker, If I was an ap hunter, this would certainly upset me greatly. I think its just wrong. this is not sarcasm at all. I would genuinely be frustrated.

Just logged in to see the change to the PvP daily for my self. I fear the end of days are near.

Any chance of an ANet comment? Izzy? Just curious if you see what we are saying, or if this is how you plan to continue with dailies. All I want to know is if this is the game you are intending it to be on the achievement side. Basically, should I hold on to any hope here, or just walk away now?

Signed, the quantity of achievement and the quantity of time that is required to do all the daily achievements is unreasonable. If I understand correctly what Ewon is saying is that instead of having 18 possible opportunities for achievements every day turn it into 5 possible opportunities so that completionists don’t have to devote hours and hours every day grinding out dailies. I’ve been trying to get into the top 1,000 AP leaderboard (I have 10,4xx right now) and it’s not fun having to do so many dailies, it doesn’t show skill level, just how devoted a person is.

With the new daily PvP achievements I think ANet is moving away from Ewon’s suggestion and making completionists commit even more. I’m sad about this, and I won’t be doing 100% of the daily achievements anymore.

I gave up after spending 2.5 hours on tpvp today. Walked away with 3 team and 0 solo queue wins. Its just depressing and more of a weekly than a daily task. It should be changed to games played or removed completly.

Malediktus.9250:

I gave up after spending 2.5 hours on tpvp today. Walked away with 3 team and 0 solo queue wins. Its just depressing and more of a weekly than a daily task. It should be changed to games played or removed completly.

Even without the AP aspect of this, tpvp wins are a terrible idea for a daily. They don’t promote playing the format for the correct reasons.

I dont mind playing tpvp, I usually do it daily to progress my other achievements, but I cant think of the day when I had 8 wins in one day before. But the dailies are just a step in the wrong direction. I will most likely stop spending money in gemshop and move to a new game as soon as a promising one is showing.

First they ruined my miniature collection (see mini holographic knights, mini caithe and mini scarlet incident, as well as ruining mr sparkles now) and now they make AP collecting more and more of a chore which takes away 100% of my playtime.
I already left all my non bank guilds (real guilds can be very stressing if you have 100% daily completion in mind eg. “come and help in fractals”) to have more time for AP hunting, but it is getting out of hand.

Ewon, I’d suggest instead to make the solution that daily achievements are converted in to permanent achievements at the end of the day.

This would reward doing dailies on the day (with the chest), but would allow new players or those on a break to work towards getting the missing APs.

This seems a good compromise between all groups, doesn’t effect 5 pointers, gives the ability for boardclimbers to make up points and compete, and allows top-ranks to play how they want provided they eventually binge on non-preferred formats to get the missing points.

I’d also prefer it if dailies (and monthlies for that matter) gave 0 points but there was instead a different category for daily categories completed. Every day when you have 5/5 dailies complete you progress 1 to that one. Say it caps out at 500 or something so there is always x number of points available in the game and again makes it a lot more competitive.

I am not against those suggestions. I will say that with my suggestion, i am trying as much as possible to use the current mechanics. I don’t want to cause too much work on the implementing side, and I didn’t want to force a drastic change to satisfy the few. This is less about getting exactly what I want and more about suggesting a change that will make me happy, but will also not affect what people already know.

After some kind messages/mail in game, I will continue for a little bit, but I will not be going for the new PvP dailies. It seems several of the other top achievement hunters will be doing the same. Anyone who thinks this is about staying at the top should recognize that some people are stepping aside from the opportunity for an advantage just due to the fact that this is not the way we want to play.

I’m not sure how much longer I will last, as I will be looking for something new to focus my time on.

Support. Only in the modest 300s on the NA leaderboard, but the process of doing everything every day is taxing, and the added points in tPvP will make it all the more. The achievement point system and dailies especially have gotten to the point where they detract from my enjoyment of the game and are not merely directing where my in-game time is spent (as they rightly should), but consuming it.

With regards to the PvP dailies, I’ve actually rather enjoyed hopping into sPvP matches as a casual PvPer (they usually only take 20-30 mins to complete), and give me a small opportunity to improve as a player and have offered some variety in terms of gameplay. I imagine tPvP to be a more competitive arena, and while having an influx of players seeking these new APs could revitalize that community, I doubt serious PvPers would be thrilled to be teamed with AP grinders. By moving APs to the daily reward chest, Anet can still reward players from each facet of the game.

tPvP dailies go against the casual side of PvP that I’ve enjoyed, and I will not be doing them. It’s just too much.

So this is gonna be a weird question most likely… but… what do you non-AP hunters do on the PvE side of this game? Like after you have 8 80s like me.

Ewon.5903:

Heta.8629:

If you can’t or won’t put in the time to do every daily then you deserve to fall in rank.

Each comment like this is kind of a slap in the face to all achievement hunters who have dedicated time chasing achievements.

Is the effort we put in to do all the other achievements now invalid due to the fact that dailies are where we are now needing to spend most of our time? Why do you value the daily grind above the efforts we put in to get achievements from the general game?

We are putting in the effort, and we plan to continue to put in effort. The problem is, dailies are not the area for that effort. I have yet to find someone who has said they enjoy spending time everyday, doing every single daily. There are few saying they like having the option to do one or two extra, but not all every day (you would need high achievement points to prove this too).

You can say these are optional as much as you want but the leader boards will contradict that argument. Here is something optional, but there is a ladder for the person who does the most of them.

If you don’t think I have put in effort for my achievements, just because the added amount of dailies are draining, then i must ask, did you have any respect for an achievement hunter anyway? It would seem you are classing effort strictly as the amount of grinding you are willing to do.

Nothing is invalidated because when dailies are added you don’t lose AP. The leaderboard itself is optional and serves merely to show off as top players gain no tangible reward for being at the top. The leaderboard doesn’t make you do anything. I’m on the leaderboard but that does not compel me to complete every achievement. The leaderboard exists to show off time and effort in a particular field. Therefore it is logical that the people who do the most achievements should be at the top of the achievement leaderboard. Some achievements are grindy so yes effort can be measured by how much grind you do. There is a small component of skill as well because some achievements require skill. If you continue to put in the effort then everything is fine. More dailies were added to help Pvp players who have a harder time getting AP than pvers not to annoy people on the leaderboards. Anet does what is good for the overall game which at times is an inconvenience to some but is good for the overall game. The current system isn’t broke so no need to fix it.

Edit: dailies do not prevent you from playing the game as all dailies are gained by playing the game. If you don’t have time for the activities you enjoy than time management needs to be done. Do less dailies, devote more time to the game, get achievements done quicker, sleep less, eat while playing etc. make decisions on what you want to do and what you feel you need to do just like everyone else

Already sent support mail to Ewon. Fully agree with QoL improvements on dailies.

Heta you are clearly miles away from the mindset of us AP hunter as you dont seem to realize the slippery slope that the changes done to dailies since the release of the game are doing to the game.

Your full message is screaming : “I have no idea what kind of dedication AP hunting requires but I’m still going to show some opposition spirit just that some people cant be satisfied with an improvement idea that wouldnt change my ways of playing”

You talk like if you knew the amount of time those new dailies are demanding while you seem to have no clue in reality.

Those new dailies in pvp FORCE 8 ranked wins. Unless you are the pro-est carry in the entire game, this is adding at very least 8 × 10 min (roughly, and lets say its a stomp everytime which doesnt happen that often at some point, and theres still the waiting time at the beginning of each tourney on top of that). And I am not even taking in consideration the queue time. That is an absurd amount of dedication required just for the pvp daily for an AP hunter. And in reality you wont make straight 8 wins in a row.

These new AP for pvp, I believe they wont change anything for regular or hardcore pvpers since release, they couldnt care less about the AP leaderboard. For people thinking this is a good moment to climb or catch up few ranks in the leaderboards, I tell you, that is going to burn them out a hell lot and the process will still take ages. If we, AP hunters of higher ranks are already burned out of this, you should realize that people behind us are probably going to feel at least the same way if not worse.

With the current AP daily system and AP leaderboard, this is hurting the game more than it improves it. And the majority of players who are not AP hunters dont even care about these added dailies they will never ever try to complete.

I’m going to do my pvp dailies as usual in soloQ. But I’m not going to push for 5 wins everyday and I’m certainly not going for the team arena, queues times are even longer, I dont want to be forced to get into a fixed or pug team and anyway, that wouldnt even guarantee a single win.

Anet, give us a proper answer on the statut of the dailies and what are your goals by adding only more and more since release, please, it seems you have no idea what finishing ALL dailies require to do to the detriment of the rest of the game content (may i add, on top of TEMPORARY content…).

Heta.8629:

More dailies were added to help Pvp players who have a harder time getting AP than pvers not to annoy people on the leaderboards. Anet does what is good for the overall game which at times is an inconvenience to some but is good for the overall game. The current system isn’t broke so no need to fix it.

The change proposed in this thread would actually reward PvP players way more than those new dailies, while equalizing the rewards between PvP and PvE. Are the new achievements good for the overall game? I honestly think they’re not, quite the contrary actually, and the feedbcak I have seen on the pvp forums rather agree with it. They’re unreachable for casual PvPers and PvEers which Anet should try to drag into tPvP, and will just comfort these players that tPvP is not for them.

Edit: dailies do not prevent you from playing the game as all dailies are gained by playing the game. If you don’t have time for the activities you enjoy than time management needs to be done. Do less dailies, devote more time to the game, get achievements done quicker, sleep less, eat while playing etc. make decisions on what you want to do and what you feel you need to do just like everyone else

You don’t understand that we don’t want to have to choose beetween doing the dailies and doing something else. It worked fine for a while, even the state before the new PvP dailies was almost fine, since we had time left to play anything we wanted after finishing the dailies. But with this new update its not possible anymore since the tPvP dailies require something like 3hours to be completed: its either full-time doing the dailies or letting go.
I know a lot of AP-hunters will partially ignore those new dailies. Anet has come to a point where we can’t enjoy our completionist playstyle anymore.

Ewon.5903:

After some kind messages/mail in game, I will continue for a little bit, but I will not be going for the new PvP dailies. It seems several of the other top achievement hunters will be doing the same. Anyone who thinks this is about staying at the top should recognize that some people are stepping aside from the opportunity for an advantage just due to the fact that this is not the way we want to play.

Yesterday I really struggeled with myself and came to the same conclusion. I too will boycott the new dailies – maybe trying for 3 SoloQ-wins while completing my “regular PvP-daily”, but not on a regular basis.
To be honest I feel like I lost some kind of purpose in the game – it will never feel the same and just somehow unfinished…
Let’s see how long I will last playing this game…

Also I am really curious when the guys who seriously try to complete the daily from now on burn out – but not my concern as I have already run out of fuel…

I thought about a different suggestion. A bit similar to that from OP post. Why not still let it be tiered? Instead of giving all the AP in the reward chest make another meta which resets every day.

Let the small subachievements only increas the meta by 1. Each step of the meta gives a few AP so you get maybe like 5-10 AP each day if you complete the meta which should need max 4 sub achievements to complete(those indvidual are giving 0 AP and are only to increase the meta count). So people doing only 1-2 achievements because of time still would get a few AP(if it was in reward chest they would get nothing then).

And AP farmers can get all AP without doing everything.

People not farming AP might still get more. If previously we did only 4 for laurel and got 4 AP then now we could get more(depending on how much they want to give max – 10 maybe a bit too much, maybe 1,1,2,2 max 6, a bit more than before for people only doing 4, bit less for people that did all that stuff).

Animaniak.5619:

Ewon.5903:

After some kind messages/mail in game, I will continue for a little bit, but I will not be going for the new PvP dailies. It seems several of the other top achievement hunters will be doing the same. Anyone who thinks this is about staying at the top should recognize that some people are stepping aside from the opportunity for an advantage just due to the fact that this is not the way we want to play.

Yesterday I really struggeled with myself and came to the same conclusion. I too will boycott the new dailies – maybe trying for 3 SoloQ-wins while completing my “regular PvP-daily”, but not on a regular basis.
To be honest I feel like I lost some kind of purpose in the game – it will never feel the same and just somehow unfinished…
Let’s see how long I will last playing this game…

Also I am really curious when the guys who seriously try to complete the daily from now on burn out – but not my concern as I have already run out of fuel…

Did it drive you as insane as it did for me to leave those Ap behind? One thing I thought of is the other day I spent a bit of time doing 30 keg brawl matches as i never did go back when they updated that place. 30wins got me 5ap. If I am hunting down achievements that get me 5ap, the 4 from the PvP dailies are really going to start to add up.

I ended up losing all interest last night and just logged out. I realized after that there were new crafting achievements, and 2 living story categories to get, but I just didn;t care enough to log back in.

Luthan.5236:

I thought about a different suggestion. A bit similar to that from OP post. Why not still let it be tiered? Instead of giving all the AP in the reward chest make another meta which resets every day.

Let the small subachievements only increas the meta by 1. Each step of the meta gives a few AP so you get maybe like 5-10 AP each day if you complete the meta which should need max 4 sub achievements to complete(those indvidual are giving 0 AP and are only to increase the meta count). So people doing only 1-2 achievements because of time still would get a few AP(if it was in reward chest they would get nothing then).

And AP farmers can get all AP without doing everything.

People not farming AP might still get more. If previously we did only 4 for laurel and got 4 AP then now we could get more(depending on how much they want to give max – 10 maybe a bit too much, maybe 1,1,2,2 max 6, a bit more than before for people only doing 4, bit less for people that did all that stuff).

Excellent idea. I may try to rework this into the main suggestion of the thread. This will of course depend on how I am feeling about the game. Right now, it’s not so great.

Ewon.5903:

Did it drive you as insane as it did for me to leave those Ap behind? One thing I thought of is the other day I spent a bit of time doing 30 keg brawl matches as i never did go back when they updated that place. 30wins got me 5ap. If I am hunting down achievements that get me 5ap, the 4 from the PvP dailies are really going to start to add up.

I ended up losing all interest last night and just logged out. I realized after that there were new crafting achievements, and 2 living story categories to get, but I just didn;t care enough to log back in.

1.) WTF!? Are you serious! Raging like crazy!
2.) Going in neutral state and analyzing it closely. Doing some Team and Solo-Matches and picturing me doing this every day…
3.) Falling in some kind of depression while realizing – I can’t keep this up… or rather I don’t want to keep doing this…
4.) Get reminded of all this time spent in the game and doing dailies in the nights before updates, because I feared A-net would screw something up again with the daily/monthly… – getting even more depressed.
5.) Getting indifferent and having a look at the new crafting I really looked forward to and had planned out everything for months.. who cares…
6.) Shedding a final tear with the start of the new daily and knowing those missed 2 ones will never come back…
7.) Feeling bad, but still deciding to keep up my regular daily…

Honestly it’s really everything or nothing for me and I don’t want to quit (the achievement hunt / the game) completley, but keeping this up while feeling bad about a game I should enjoy? I hope it won’t lead to…

8.) Quitting the game! xD

Sorry for kind of off-topic and my little story! xD

So let’s play the game like we used to while not feeling achieved anymore! xD

Animaniak.5619:

Honestly it’s really everything or nothing for me and I don’t want to quit (the achievement hunt / the game) completley, but keeping this up while feeling bad about a game I should enjoy? I hope it won’t lead to…

You and I sound so alike that I feel like I know you. I hope you are able to find a way through this and continue on your journey, but I fully support any decision you decide to make.

No matter what happens, we had one hell of a good time a long the way right?

Ewon.5903:

You and I sound so alike that I feel like I know you. I hope you are able to find a way through this and continue on your journey, but I fully support any decision you decide to make.

No matter what happens, we had one hell of a good time a long the way right?

Come in my arms brother!
Let’s see what A-net has still in store for us – and yeah, you are right – never forget the good times!

And many thanks for your efforts to make the game a better place for people like us!
Although when I look at the last dev-post in this Suggestion category i fear we won’t be heard…

I was thinking, those who are opposed to a change in the current system. We need to ask. Is the current system with ap something you enjoy? If some are opposed to change simply to see some hardcore ap hunters cringe. Is that good for the game? If it is good, then how?

I think of these changes much like any other aspect of the game. Would I like it if anet put something new in places that greatly increased the time I did something? I would not. We read people complain about x and y after update taking so long, crafting to 500 being burdensome to others. Are these complaints more important than what the ap hunters want.
We each do various areas of the game that we enjoy. If I logged on and seen anet say. Oh you can still do this, its just going to take you longer. I would not be a happy camper.
I am not an ap hunter, just trying to put myself in their shoes mentally. I wish anet would reconsider the surplus of ap. They are not needed. How can this be a good thing for the game for the community?

The worst part about updates are that they add the new dailies in later on in the day. They should be called hourlies or something, since I end up with 10 minutes after work to get them done :P
3.2k hours spent hunting dailies O.o
I do not mind having a ‘wins’ daily achievement in PvP. I just dislike that
1) The wins have to be completed in different sections (I did the team wins first, and felt horrible having to leave them because ‘I still need my solo queue wins’)
2) The daily wins are separated into different dailies instead of tiers. So I cannot just have ‘win 3 games’ in my achievement watchlist, but have to go back in there after winning two since it has been ‘unlocked’. If I could unlock something different (have the most points on your team in a team match), then that would almost be sensible. Although it creates a weird precedent.
Next we’ll have to kill 10 WvW invaders before we can get a Tower capture daily, and we could be forced to complete 4 Maguuma events before we can start getting credit for Aquatic Slayer.
It is a dark future of progression-locked dailies, five hour long grinds each night, and poor sportsmanship.

@Jackal, I believe you hit the nail on the head. with “poor sportsmanship” its very much like changing the rules to a competition after the competition has started.

Luthan.5236:

I thought about a different suggestion. A bit similar to that from OP post. Why not still let it be tiered? Instead of giving all the AP in the reward chest make another meta which resets every day.

Let the small subachievements only increas the meta by 1. Each step of the meta gives a few AP so you get maybe like 5-10 AP each day if you complete the meta which should need max 4 sub achievements to complete(those indvidual are giving 0 AP and are only to increase the meta count). So people doing only 1-2 achievements because of time still would get a few AP(if it was in reward chest they would get nothing then).

And AP farmers can get all AP without doing everything.

People not farming AP might still get more. If previously we did only 4 for laurel and got 4 AP then now we could get more(depending on how much they want to give max – 10 maybe a bit too much, maybe 1,1,2,2 max 6, a bit more than before for people only doing 4, bit less for people that did all that stuff).

I was thinking about something similar. It would work perfectly in PvE, and I think it would also fit PvP. Since the PvP and PvE currencies are merging, having both dailies separated is a bit meaningless, and since they already share the laurel I don’t see much reason not to merge them completely.
More options should be given to complete the PvP dail (imo around 8-10 total with a daily rotation), like:

• Win a tournament match
• Revive 3-5 players
• Complete 5 secondary objectives (kill a boss on niflhel, score the orb on spirit’s watch, etc)
• Gain 500 rank points

and so on. I found some good ideas on another thread for such options. Also those options should award some experience, like the PvE ones do (5% of current level).
This solution would make PvE and PvP completely even regarding the rewards for daily.

Total support with OP.

I have been thinking of opening this exact thread ever since i learned about even more PvP dailies.
But my english isn’t perfect so i’m glad i’ve waited because you’ve mentionned everything i was thinking about much better than i would have.

When the game started, i wasn’t so sure about doing all dailies. And with the first monthly (august) being bugged on my account for the survivor part, i thought i had missed out. But i sticked with them, and found places to do them in 10-15 minutes, and after that i could go and play the game however i saw fit.

Then the system was changed to 9 PvE dailies + 4 PvP dailies, and the leaderboard was introduced.
At first, it was fun to see every people trying to complete what they hadn’t done yet. But soon, we were all at the same point: a few achievements still missing here and there but not much and the only way to go up in the leaderboard was to not miss out on any daily or living world.

I went from 190 Eu to around 55 Eu (it varies a bit depending on who does his/her living story or monthlies fastest) since the launch of the leaderboards, and it wasn’t because i did more to go up, it was only because higher ranked people stopped grinding the APs or stopped the game.

Now we’re up to 14 (sometimes 15 like the last 2 weeks of fractured living world) PvE dailies, and 8 PvP (including team arenas wins, which could take hours to get for a player who doesn’t have a team), and it’s getting in the way of me enjoying the game the way i did before.

The idea to get the daily APs in the daily reward chest is great.
Whatever ANET decide to do with the rest of the dailies (money or karma or experience reward), they should definitely start by that.

Top 60 EU here.

Best idea would to cap daily achievement points at 10,000 and monthly achievements at 2,500.

So I believe this is good bye for me. I just can’t seem to push myself to log in and do the other achievements. Over the next few days you may see me log in just to do a few quick dailies in case I change my mind in the coming days. The first day that I do not end up doing any dailies will be the point I know I am finished. This was not at all and easy decision for me to make.

Although we knew that this update was coming, and there was no way we would be in time to prevent it, I was really expecting like 2 tournament wins. The fact that it was 4 times what I was already not looking forward to has lessened my interest so much.

I know ANet doesn’t like goodbye/quit threads, but I am partly mentioning this so that someone else can take over the thread, as well as the fight for a change. For me I simply see this as the trend for the game, so if my enjoyment is gone, then so am I.

For the good times, the image below shows what I ended up achieving. To be honest, creating this thread and fighting for the achievement community was a true achievement for me, even if I didn’t end up being successful for you guys.

Unfortunately I feel that if I do not stop now, this was all for nothing. If I continue on as if things are fine, how much did I truly care? There is a chance I might not leave, or maybe someone day I can find a way to play at a more casual level.

I will continue to lurk around this thread for now, but eventually this will be my good bye.

I just wanna show my support for this topic… dailies are a mindless drain atm and i (just somewhere around top 200 eu.. can’t get myself to look it up) also thought about quitting on the game a few times. Most of my friends that were ap hunters already did and i just feel like it’s only a matter of time till i join them in another game…
Everything i can think of right now has already been said – the focus should be on interesting permanent content and not the same boring stuff every day.
We already had so many changes on the daily system – so one more (for the better i’d say after reading all this!) wouldn’t hurt. Most people wouldn’t even care and it might bring back some players that only left because they were bored and disappointed by the way this once so great game has become…

The amount of time ANet is asking achievement hunters to put in doing their dailies is ridiculous. I can always do the first 5 achievements in 15-20 min. and the first 10-12 in one hour but requiring high level PvP participation is ridiculous. I’m not doing the Team Arena or Toxic Consumer achievements, one requires way too much commitment and the other requires 1.5g. I’d rather keep my gold and my free time and stop trying to get into the 1,000 leaderboard, I’ll be a lot happier at the end of it.

I also encourage all the other achievement hunters to speak up here and voice their unhappiness about the amount of time required to do all the dailies.

Ok, i took more time to read all the previous answers, and i have something to add.

The thing with dailies, is that when they were changed from 4 PvE every day to 9 PvE (5 to complete) + 4 PvP every day, the message from ANET was: “we want you to be able to get your daily reward the way you want”.

So granted for a non leaderboard perspective, AND if you only do the 5 per day, it might sometimes be faster, or sometimes a little less than the old system, but still very quick.

But from a leaderboard perspective, it forces you to play what the dailies tell you to play.
I would much rather have a bunch of uncapped infinite achievements, that would reward everyone for what they like to play.
You could just do your dailies quickly in 15-20 minutes like before, and then you could get APs by doing what you love.
The APs reward would be scaled according to the average time you have to invest in them, but everyone would have a fair amount by doing what they prefer.

For instance, if A loves doing fractals and B prefers doing PvP tourneys, and if an average fractal run lasts one hour, and an average tourney game lasts 15 minutes, A can get 4 point every 10 runs, and B 1 point every 10 games. Thus giving them the same ratio of APs per time spent.
(This is just an example, i don’t have the data for these.)

But the grinding of APs through dailies has just gone too far, no matter what kind of player you are, and what your goals are in the game, it’s getting in the way of doing what YOU want. Noone can deny this.

Ewon grads on your decision. I think that daily AP has become a job and a chore rather then an entertaining competitive aspect of GW2. I am in the top 80 and as of today I am also giving up on the ridiculous race which seems to rob me of enjoying other aspects of this game. It almost feels like a relief and a weight off my shoulders. Good Luck

No thanks.

I confess, however, I stopped reading after the OP’s complaining that there were “too many dailies” to keep up with.

I am sympathetic to the idea that the game is vast, but I don’t think that ANet should cater to people at the top of the leaderboards or to completionists who are attempting to do everything.

If you are having trouble doing all the dailies, please stop doing them all.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

No thanks.

I confess, however, I stopped reading after the OP’s complaining that there were “too many dailies” to keep up with.

I am sympathetic to the idea that the game is vast, but I don’t think that ANet should cater to people at the top of the leaderboards or to completionists who are attempting to do everything.

If you are having trouble doing all the dailies, please stop doing them all.

Well, I actually did. you clearly did not read enough, which you have confirmed, to see where we are coming from. It is not as simple as reducing it down to us complaining about to many dailies. I’d suggest taking the time to truly see what we are saying, that we you can add more to the conversation.