Guild Wars 2

Banono.4597:

Nothing against you IndigoSundown.5419, but I feel alot of you guys are just flattering yourselves thinking people are going to hound you for duels to the point your block list will be full and you will still have the whispers rolling in.

Actually, I don’t think it will be an issue. That’s why I worded it as I did. My ignore list in this game is remarkably short compared to some other games and I expect it would stay that way.

I really wouldn’t expect much — if any — harassment from frustrated duel-wanters. I just believe in insurance. You see, I’m a pessimist by avocation. That way, most of my surprises are pleasant.

IndigoSundown.5419:

You mistook “do not give a rat’s kitten about” for “forgot.”

Oh I agree with your list I was just adding an idea as well. I suppose I should have worded it differently.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Banono.4597:

Nothing against you IndigoSundown.5419, but I feel alot of you guys are just flattering yourselves thinking people are going to hound you for duels to the point your block list will be full and you will still have the whispers rolling in.

Actually, I don’t think it will be an issue. That’s why I worded it as I did. My ignore list in this game is remarkably short compared to some other games and I expect it would stay that way.

I really wouldn’t expect much — if any — harassment from frustrated duel-wanters. I just believe in insurance. You see, I’m a pessimist by avocation. That way, most of my surprises are pleasant.

That’s the vibe I got. Which is why I complimented you on the choice of words and made sure you knew that even though I was quoting you, I was more talking to the people from earlier who think adding in duels means the 1337 kids are gonna harass them and ruin their game.

My main thing with this thread is all the “I don’t like it, so it will ruin the game” vibe I get from most these posts.

I HATE jumping puzzles and map completion, so when I heard alot of the guild missions were going to have that kind of content, I didn’t come on the forums and say “You guys already got JP’s and map completion go do that and be happy!”. Instead I shrugged my shoulders and said “Meh” quietly to myself because I don’t have to partake in something I do not want to. I wish others had this same kind of attitude.

I can totally see popping in here and saying “Not my cup of tea, but as long as they don’t F up balancing over it, who cares?” as a response, but most of the anti-dueling posts are akin to chicken little.

I can assure you guys the sky won’t fall and you will not be harmed in anyway if it is added.

This right here is probably worse than anything a duel can bring as far as noise and particle effects go, and look at Banono there! Zero kittens given. (Literally just logged in and saw this happening)

Master of Timespace.2548:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Custom Arenas are the answer to your prayers. They’re balanced.

Also, the Windmill in (insert server here) BL. They’re unbalanced.

Spvp is balanced for spvp, not duels, though. Besides, open world dueling could offer interesting places to fight at, like on some plank high above the ground.

Group events are an example of what you would start seeing, so many particle effects going off from the duelists you would not be able to even make out the rest of the game.

Group events where? At the middle of Gendarran Fields or some other area nobody EVER goes? Even disabling it in towns seems pointless. There is already costume brawl and I’m sure it doesn’t bother anyone – and if it does, then perhaps its time to look at the mirror.

There are group events all over the game, in almost every map every few minutes, or have you been only playing WvW? Custom brawls are annoying for sure, but at least they are few and far between.

offence.4726:

Alot of people seem to forget that this Game was advertised as a PvP centric one much like GW1 was if I remember correctly. Anet keeps on pushing PvP on to the e-sport scene even though the content patching was a bit late.

Every standard MMO from the last 10 years had/has a duel preset option , and quite a while ago Anet replied to this Duel feature with something like " we will see in the future " .

Even though I hope dueling will be implemented as soon as possible the PvE community has nothing to fear , an on/off duel setting and a special zone will not effect our lovely carebears that keep on finding reasons against it.

How do you presume to say this game was advertised as PvP centric. This isn’t true on any level.

The game was advertised for a year without a single mention of PvP and about 80-90% of everything they’ve do for advertising was PvE.

Craptrain.7203:

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

…it shows their level of mentality and just reinforces my dislick of everything PvP based in this game.

Please don’t confuse duelers with PvPers. PvPers want a balanced playing field where skill, tactics, and well executed play win the day. Duelers want a playing field where gear advantage, food advantage, cheese factor and build win the day.

I stand corrected! ;-)
There is also a solution to the duelists who only want to use superior armor, weapons, etc. Fight a duel and lose, you lose whatever armor and weapons you are using to your opponent. At least that way a skilled player would have some fun with a noob with a checkbook.

Stale first of all this isnt WoW!!
and almost all of your arguements are invalid and wrong in so many ways
and you seem to be a little thick headed….

i mean when will you stop posting basically the same comment over and over and over and over again?….

i cant wait for the day i actually see a GOOD AND VALID reason not to have open world duels in this game (dont get me wrong i want it more then anything)

and just a fun fact: this thread is almost as big as “Client for Linux” thread.
and yet no respons… WHY?

This is the third or fourth MERGED thread about this. The only official word in any of them was “If you want to duel, the PvP servers are there.”

The only other official word anywhere was from a developer, pre-beta, saying they were looking at maybe including it.

The ONLY argument for dueling that strike’s me as vaguely reasonable is one I encouraged earlier – let people do it, but have it set to auto-decline by default. Also have the duelists not render for other people who are playing the game normally.

Would go, “Invite to duel: player name”. If it gets accepted, both characters, and all effects become generally unrendered, and unable to affect anything else in the area. No problem with that at all.

Anything that leaves the mortal kombat kiddies affecting the world near them is just not reasonable.

ehm…. im pretty sure mortal kombat “kiddies” play mortal kombat tbh

There is genuinely not a single legitimate reason why dueling should not exist within the game.

1. It’s an easily implemented (Hopefully, suppose it’s possible their engine is limited in a way that prevents it) system that will provide hundreds upon thousands, potentially
even millions, of hours of entertainment over the life of the game.

2. Would actually benefit the competitive PvP scene, as testing in this game is still severely limited. The sPvP system lacks transparency in figures, effectiveness of skills/weapon sets, and trait balances. A dueling system would make a lot of this much easier to test, offering up the solution of a custom arena is and always will be absurd as you should not be forced to pay money in order to educate yourself in PvP.

3. People want it, quite a lot of people.

All of the negative responses I’ve seen are filled with self-centered thinking. Any negative you can conjure up with the dueling system I can conjure up with others.

I personally detest /dance in games. I’m fine with it in certain circumstances, but there’s nothing more I hate than playing with a friend (He knows it too, and keeps at it, like a kitten) who consistently /dances when we’re roaming around committing mass genocide. Anyone can say that a particular element of the game “annoys them” or “takes them out of the game”, but that doesn’t mean the game should cater to it. By the way, I was serious about the dancing thing, I want to murder all of you who do it, ideally in some really painful way.

Also seems prudent to point out that there effectively is already dueling in the game that’s far more of an eye-sore than real dueling would ever be, which is the costume brawl. If dueling ruins your immersion how on earth do you see it as all good that a Moa and an Elemental can duke it out in LA square without interference.

If someone can come up with a better reason to not implement it than “I don’t want it so it shouldn’t be part of the game”, then by all means put me in my place. It just seems to be the case that all of the negative responses I’ve seen are rooted in “I want” thoughts and not genuine downfalls of the system.

Edit: Saw this post and decided to respond

Vayne.8563:

A mind reader you’re not.

I don’t want dueling because the type of player that is attracted to that stuff isn’t at all generally attacted to the type of game I want or play. In general I think the duelist community is incompatible with the community I’d rather see in the game. I feel the same about open world PvP of any kind.

This game is filled to the brim with conflicting communities and game-styles as are most moderately successful MMORPGs. If you think content releases should be filtered only to what you enjoy then I believe you might be in for a rough surprise. ANet has taken careful care trying to satiate all of their players, given their player base is highly divided in play-style.

You can duel anytime, any short wait is long enough for a duel. They can occupy you when bored, are a great medium for interaction within the community, especially meeting players you otherwise wouldn’t. It even entertains those who choose to not duel themselves. It’s a system that will contribute more than any other that exists in GW2 currently and will mold itself to every community in the game.

In short: dueling is a great type of dynamic content that allows players to make their own fun, which is something GW2 needs.

One last note, seems a lot of people are against dueling around crafters and I want to pose the question …Why?

Crafting is an utterly mundane aspect of the game, there is nothing interesting about the process once you’ve determined recipes and even prior to that it’s a pretty slim system. Usually you just hit a button and wait for 10,000 of an item to materialize in your inventory, do you really hate free entertainment during mundane tasks?

How do you guys manage to fight over nothing? Just allow dueling everywhere except cities. If that doesn’t suit you then you can make a special dueling zone.

Lenaro.5924:

There is genuinely not a single legitimate reason why dueling should not exist within the game.

ANet might disagree. They make money from custom arenas, they wouldn’t from a straight copy of a dueling feature from another game.

Lenaro.5924:

All of the negative responses I’ve seen are filled with self-centered thinking.

So are the requests for dueling. Asking for something you want is essentially selfish, as is asking that something you don’t want be left out. Your reasons sound good to you. Their reasons sound good to them. Neither side is being objective — both sides just think they are.

As to Costume Brawl… I don’t see it much now that the novelty has worn off. If dueling is as desired as you think it is, and will stand the test of time as you seem to think it will, then there will be a lot more duels than there are costume brawls.

Lest you think I’m opposed to dueling because I don’t buy what you’re selling, I’m not. I don’t think ANet will go for it, but I’m OK if they do so long as it’s implemented in as grief-proof a way as possible.

Lenaro.5924:

There is genuinely not a single legitimate reason why dueling should not exist within the game.

snip

I personally detest /dance in games. I’m fine with it in certain circumstances, but there’s nothing more I hate than playing with a friend (He knows it too, and keeps at it, like a kitten) who consistently /dances when we’re roaming around committing mass genocide. Anyone can say that a particular element of the game “annoys them” or “takes them out of the game”, but that doesn’t mean the game should cater to it. By the way, I was serious about the dancing thing, I want to murder all of you who do it, ideally in some really painful way.

Also seems prudent to point out that there effectively is already dueling in the game that’s far more of an eye-sore than real dueling would ever be, which is the costume brawl. If dueling ruins your immersion how on earth do you see it as all good that a Moa and an Elemental can duke it out in LA square without interference.

If someone can come up with a better reason to not implement it than “I don’t want it so it shouldn’t be part of the game”, then by all means put me in my place. It just seems to be the case that all of the negative responses I’ve seen are rooted in “I want” thoughts and not genuine downfalls of the system.

Edit: Saw this post and decided to respond

Vayne.8563:

A mind reader you’re not.

I don’t want dueling because the type of player that is attracted to that stuff isn’t at all generally attacted to the type of game I want or play. In general I think the duelist community is incompatible with the community I’d rather see in the game. I feel the same about open world PvP of any kind.

This game is filled to the brim with conflicting communities and game-styles as are most moderately successful MMORPGs. If you think content releases should be filtered only to what you enjoy then I believe you might be in for a rough surprise. ANet has taken careful care trying to satiate all of their players, given their player base is highly divided in play-style.

You can duel anytime, any short wait is long enough for a duel. They can occupy you when bored, are a great medium for interaction within the community, especially meeting players you otherwise wouldn’t. It even entertains those who choose to not duel themselves. It’s a system that will contribute more than any other that exists in GW2 currently and will mold itself to every community in the game.

In short: dueling is a great type of dynamic content that allows players to make their own fun, which is something GW2 needs.

One last note, seems a lot of people are against dueling around crafters and I want to pose the question …Why?

Crafting is an utterly mundane aspect of the game, there is nothing interesting about the process once you’ve determined recipes and even prior to that it’s a pretty slim system. Usually you just hit a button and wait for 10,000 of an item to materialize in your inventory, do you really hate free entertainment during mundane tasks?

Ah, you misunderstand. This has nothing to do with only adding things to the game I like. This has to do with not adding something to the game that encourages a specific community to join.

It’s like not having open world PvP…the same sorts of “smack-talking” non-carebears if you will populate the world.

At present there’s more or less a divide between PvE and PvP. This is Anet’s signature. It existed in Guild Wars 1 and exists here. PvP is that way. PvE is this way. Anet has always kept the PvPers in their own area.

People are asking Anet to change how they do business because they think they know better. Well as a long time “care-bear” I can tell you seriously that you don’t. People like me and people like you don’t mix. We just don’t Put us together and you ask for problems.

We had an RPG guild and the guild leader opened it to PvPers. Pretty soon even mention of the word RP was enough to get you bullied. It was a bad move. I told the guild leader when he did it it was a bad move. The guilds split and everyone is happy.

I don’t care what they add to the game. I care if they change the existing game in a way that will make it worse for those playing any area of the game.

In this case, inviting those who like that to be with those of us who don’t is simply asking for trouble.

And if you don’t think the smack-talking, annoying constant chatter about pwning this guy won’t infiltrate chat…you’d probably be wrong.

Vayne.8563:

Ah, you misunderstand. This has nothing to do with only adding things to the game I like. This has to do with not adding something to the game that encourages a specific community to join.

It’s like not having open world PvP…the same sorts of “smack-talking” non-carebears if you will populate the world.

At presence there’s more or less a divide between PvE and PvP. This is Anet’s signature. It existed in Guild Wars 1 and exists here. PvP is that way. PvE is this way. Anet has always kept the PvPers in their own area.

People are asking Anet to change how they do business because they think they know better. Well as a long time “care-bear” I can tell you seriously that you don’t. People like me and people like you don’t mix. We just don’t Put us together and you ask for problems.

We had an RPG guild and the guild leader opened it to PvPers. Pretty soon even mention of the word RP was enough to get you bullied. It was a bad move. I told the guild leader when he did it it was a bad move. The guilds split and everyone is happy.

I don’t care what they add to the game. I care if they change the existing game in a way that will make it worse for those playing any area of the game.

In this case, inviting those who like that to be with those of us who don’t is simply asking for trouble.

And if you don’t think the smack-talking, annoying constant chatter about pwning this guy won’t infiltrate chat…you’d probably be wrong.

I respect your opinions and experience, but I can tell you that mine differ slightly.

I love PvP and I love RP. And before you think I’m some mythical rare breed, there are actually quite a few of us. I’ve led a number of guilds over the years that reflect this play-style. The current group of folks I play with are all from a series of guilds across a variety of games in which the focus was RP-PvP.

As a result of running these guilds I’ve had countless interactions with other players who focus on RP/PvP. In both communities there were certainly always those intolerant of the others, and there’s never a lack of jokes tossed out about other communities, but as a whole they’re quite able to play with one another and enjoy the game together. Most people who don’t RP will always have the “Oh…really?” reaction when it’s first mentioned, but usually people get over it quickly enough if you’re an average enough person.

I think the hardcore PvP community has just gotten a bad reputation for some reason when none really exists. There are certainly bad apples in it, but they exist everywhere.

Smack talking would almost certainly happen, it’s inevitable, but it’s inevitable that in any area of the game people are kittens to others. I’ve seen quite a lot of discussions in the game that I would call worse than smack talking, always hilarious when people blatantly call someone a moron or worse because their gear/understanding of the game isn’t quite up to par. Or the Grammar kittens, always hilarious. Or the people who insult others for genuine complaints.

(PROTIP: Don’t ever call into question the potential that GW2 is anything less than perfect while in-game, you’ll be beaten to death in chat with sticks. Maybe something more painful if availible.)

Some people insist on feeling superior, dueling being added will only change what people brag about, not that they’re bragging.

I do want to ask you directly though, could you please elaborate on what it is that you feel dueling would change that would directly lessen the quality of the game for other players. I really haven’t been able to come up with anything personally and most responses I’ve seen are much less thought out, so I would genuinely appreciate a thoughtful and detailed response.

Lenaro.5924:

Vayne.8563:

Ah, you misunderstand. This has nothing to do with only adding things to the game I like. This has to do with not adding something to the game that encourages a specific community to join.

It’s like not having open world PvP…the same sorts of “smack-talking” non-carebears if you will populate the world.

At presence there’s more or less a divide between PvE and PvP. This is Anet’s signature. It existed in Guild Wars 1 and exists here. PvP is that way. PvE is this way. Anet has always kept the PvPers in their own area.

People are asking Anet to change how they do business because they think they know better. Well as a long time “care-bear” I can tell you seriously that you don’t. People like me and people like you don’t mix. We just don’t Put us together and you ask for problems.

We had an RPG guild and the guild leader opened it to PvPers. Pretty soon even mention of the word RP was enough to get you bullied. It was a bad move. I told the guild leader when he did it it was a bad move. The guilds split and everyone is happy.

I don’t care what they add to the game. I care if they change the existing game in a way that will make it worse for those playing any area of the game.

In this case, inviting those who like that to be with those of us who don’t is simply asking for trouble.

And if you don’t think the smack-talking, annoying constant chatter about pwning this guy won’t infiltrate chat…you’d probably be wrong.

I respect your opinions and experience, but I can tell you that mine differ slightly.

I love PvP and I love RP. And before you think I’m some mythical rare breed, there are actually quite a few of us. I’ve led a number of guilds over the years that reflect this play-style. The current group of folks I play with are all from a series of guilds across a variety of games in which the focus was RP-PvP.

As a result of running these guilds I’ve had countless interactions with other players who focus on RP/PvP. In both communities there were certainly always those intolerant of the others, and there’s never a lack of jokes tossed out about other communities, but as a whole they’re quite able to play with one another and enjoy the game together. Most people who don’t RP will always have the “Oh…really?” reaction when it’s first mentioned, but usually people get over it quickly enough if you’re an average enough person.

I think the hardcore PvP community has just gotten a bad reputation for some reason when none really exists. There are certainly bad apples in it, but they exist everywhere.

Smack talking would almost certainly happen, it’s inevitable, but it’s inevitable that in any area of the game people are kittens to others. I’ve seen quite a lot of discussions in the game that I would call worse than smack talking, always hilarious when people blatantly call someone a moron or worse because their gear/understanding of the game isn’t quite up to par. Or the Grammar kittens, always hilarious. Or the people who insult others for genuine complaints.

(PROTIP: Don’t ever call into question the potential that GW2 is anything less than perfect while in-game, you’ll be beaten to death in chat with sticks. Maybe something more painful if availible.)

Some people insist on feeling superior, dueling being added will only change what people brag about, not that they’re bragging.

I do want to ask you directly though, could you please elaborate on what it is that you feel dueling would change that would directly lessen the quality of the game for other players. I really haven’t been able to come up with anything personally and most responses I’ve seen are much less thought out, so I would genuinely appreciate a thoughtful and detailed response.

My experiences with dueling come first and foremost from WoW. Reference Gold Shire. There were idiots there that just stood there and challenged people to duel. They also filled up map chat with all sorts of juvenille nonsense, worse the other nonsense in let’s say Guild Wars 1 which didn’t have dueling.

The constant in chat bragging, harranging and in general just childishness really turned me off…and I turned off map chat. I don’t really want to have to turn off map chat or block 20 people a day.

And yes, I know there are PvP RPers, but they’re by and large the smallest percentage of the PvP base.

Vayne.8563:

My experiences with dueling come first and foremost from WoW. Reference Gold Shire. There were idiots there that just stood there and challenged people to duel. They also filled up map chat with all sorts of juvenille nonsense, worse the other nonsense in let’s say Guild Wars 1 which didn’t have dueling.

The constant in chat bragging, harranging and in general just childishness really turned me off…and I turned off map chat. I don’t really want to have to turn off map chat or block 20 people a day.

And yes, I know there are PvP RPers, but they’re by and large the smallest percentage of the PvP base.

If that is all you have experienced then I now see why you feel that way, but let me assure you. WoW’s community is much worse than any other MMOs I have played.

If I were to judge groups of players by what I saw in WoW (Especially in lowbie zones like Goldshire) RP would be something I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole due to the public ERP and trolls (I am an avid RPer in every other MMO I’ve played.), I wouldn’t do dungeons because I would think it would be just be a group of kids saying “GOGOGO! Pull or I’ll pull!” and “OMG fail tank /quit” and Barrens chat needs no explaining.

There will be kittenheads in map chat. There already is.

Denying something alot of people want because a few people might be jerks to me is not a good reason. If some people want to smack talk to the point of harassment report them and know you just ruined his day worse than he could ever do your’s.

In other words don’t punish the innocent because some people might be stupid.

Banono.4597:

Vayne.8563:

My experiences with dueling come first and foremost from WoW. Reference Gold Shire. There were idiots there that just stood there and challenged people to duel. They also filled up map chat with all sorts of juvenille nonsense, worse the other nonsense in let’s say Guild Wars 1 which didn’t have dueling.

The constant in chat bragging, harranging and in general just childishness really turned me off…and I turned off map chat. I don’t really want to have to turn off map chat or block 20 people a day.

And yes, I know there are PvP RPers, but they’re by and large the smallest percentage of the PvP base.

If that is all you have experienced then I now see why you feel that way, but let me assure you. WoW’s community is much worse than any other MMOs I have played.

If I were to judge groups of players by what I saw in WoW (Especially in lowbie zones like Goldshire) RP would be something I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole due to the public ERP and trolls (I am an avid RPer in every other MMO I’ve played.), I wouldn’t do dungeons because I would think it would be just be a group of kids saying “GOGOGO! Pull or I’ll pull!” and “OMG fail tank /quit” and Barrens chat needs no explaining.

There will be kittenheads in map chat. There already is.

Denying something alot of people want because a few people might be jerks to me is not a good reason. If some people want to smack talk to the point of harassment report them and know you just ruined his day worse than he could ever do your’s.

In other words don’t punish the innocent because some people might be stupid.

I’m not saying don’t have dueling. I’m saying don’t have it in the open world.

What would be so bad about having a dueling arena people could go to, the way that all mini-games are separated out. They don’t play keg brawl on the streets of Hoelbrak.

There’s a difference between saying I don’t want dueling in the game and I don’t want to deal with the fall out of dueling publicly. I’m perfectly willing to compromise.

Why must dueling be open world?

I thought it was because gw2pvp is based around 5v5.

if you would introduce 1v1 people will start complaining how OP some professions are.

I honestly don’t believe that introducing a dueling system will suddenly create this community that is as juvenile as some people would like to claim. If anything, it’s a just baseless paranoia. I don’t even imagine a lot of people dueling everywhere or anywhere either that it will be bothersome, given how vast the gw2 maps tend to be and how densely populated they are with hostiles. Dungeons are instanced too, so it won’t be a problem there. So where do you guys worry these people would suddenly pop up, annoying the hell out of you? Sure, starter areas might get people who would like to flex their muscles over newbies, but really, how many would those kind of people be? I mostly think they will be in cities, some safe area that is highly populated so unless you enjoy hanging around in LA doing nothing, you are not bound to encounter a lot of them. That said, I agree that it would probably be smarter to just have a designated arena (1 for each major city themed accordingly) for dueling and such, that will allow us to use PVE stuff, like food buffs and even perhaps items like fire elemental powders and the like.

In areas like LA where there are a lot of people, do you really have to read everything everyone is talking about in map chat?

Leo Paul.1659:

I honestly don’t believe that introducing a dueling system will suddenly create this community that is as juvenile as some people would like to claim. If anything, it’s a just baseless paranoia. I don’t even imagine a lot of people dueling everywhere or anywhere either that it will be bothersome, given how vast the gw2 maps tend to be and how densely populated they are with hostiles. Dungeons are instanced too, so it won’t be a problem there. So where do you guys worry these people would suddenly pop up, annoying the hell out of you? Sure, starter areas might get people who would like to flex their muscles over newbies, but really, how many would those kind of people be? I mostly think they will be in cities, some safe area that is highly populated so unless you enjoy hanging around in LA doing nothing, you are not bound to encounter a lot of them. That said, I agree that it would probably be smarter to just have a designated arena (1 for each major city themed accordingly) for dueling and such, that will allow us to use PVE stuff, like food buffs and even perhaps items like fire elemental powders and the like.

In areas like LA where there are a lot of people, do you really have to read everything everyone is talking about in map chat?

Nope, I don’t have to read everything everyone is saying in map chat, but often there are actual conversations in map chat, at least on my server. It would be a lot harder to hold those with the spam of a duel running through it.

Which is why I think it should be in designated areas. Particularly if not enough of the population by percentage is interested. Why should those few people be able to disrupt entire conversations for no real reason?

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

I love these threads. Seeing the responses from the pro crowd reminds me exactly what I hate the most about PvP. Every time I see some poster use the line “care bear”, it shows their level of mentality and just reinforces my dislick of everything PvP based in this game.
In GW1, you could duel in the guild halls, that was pretty much it. When/if they add guild halls, that would be the place to add dueling. Group events are an example of what you would start seeing, so many particle effects going off from the duelists you would not be able to even make out the rest of the game.
I am sure Monday morning the mods will simply merge this thread in to the many, many other threads already merged.

Oh yeah, please stop with the “every other mmo/game, etc has it”. That is not even close to being a valid argument and is the last resort of someone who cannot think of any real valid reason.

There were posters casting aspersions at those who want the option to duel before the first use of the term, “carebear,” or the equivalent. Your bias is showing.

“The competition offers this feature,” is a perfectly valid argument for adding a feature in essentially every mercantile endeavor.

Personally I do not think open world dueling is necessary. I doubt very much that I would use the feature (I prefer team oriented PvP). But….anything that increases the ability of the playerbase to entertain itself in between significant content releases seems like it could be useful.

I certainly would not oppose a feature simply because I am unlikely to use it…

Vayne.8563:

Why must dueling be open world?

Perfectly reasonable question. My answer is from another game where this exact issue came up. A dev asked this question and the response was (paraphrased and compiled from numerous posters):

The opportunity for pick up encounters, meeting new people, making friends, new rivalries, etc inherent in a situation where someone just wandering by sees something interesting going on, stops to watch, and perhaps even decides to join in.

Though the above was the most common response there was also commentary about the option to stage duels in particularly interesting locations in the open world.

IndigoSundown.5419:

So are the requests for dueling. Asking for something you want is essentially selfish, as is asking that something you don’t want be left out. Your reasons sound good to you. Their reasons sound good to them. Neither side is being objective — both sides just think they are.

The difference is, one side want it as something they enjoy and you are against it because of bs reasons and as someone who does not want to participate at all. You being against someone else enjoying a feature is extremely selfish and not on par with their ‘selfish’ desire to duel with other players who want to. You have a lot of nerve pretending it’s an ‘equal’ level of selfishness.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Why must dueling be open world?

Perfectly reasonable question. My answer is from another game where this exact issue came up. A dev asked this question and the response was (paraphrased and compiled from numerous posters):

The opportunity for pick up encounters, meeting new people, making friends, new rivalries, etc inherent in a situation where someone just wandering by sees something interesting going on, stops to watch, and perhaps even decides to join in.

Though the above was the most common response there was also commentary about the option to stage duels in particularly interesting locations in the open world.

So then the question becomes…how many people would use and benefit from the feature, compared to how many people would be annoyed, or put off by it.

I’m not sure how clear cut that is.

Open world deathmatch would be nice indeed.

I don`t see any problems with it. Just add a auto-denial function and ban dueling from densely populated areas (such as LA trading area or crafting area). And obviously dueling should just be for fun, so there should not be any reward for winning or anything; maybe some achievements for how many players you`ve dueled and so-and-so. I think it would really spice up the game some more and add some immersion.

I would like to see dueling too, it also is a support to RP (since some like to duel to settle differences) and it is something fun to do from time to time.

There should be an option to turn off challenges though, for those who do not like it

wolfie.7296:

Vayne.8563:

So then the question becomes…how many people would use and benefit from the feature, compared to how many people would be annoyed, or put off by it.

I’m not sure how clear cut that is.

Rp is always a minority. For you to RP in that game, annoyed the huge amount of PvPers. Now here you are taking the same position like those PvPers you had a problem with. “What annoys me if I do not even want to participate, should be denied those who want to do it.” I won’t say how that appears or what that makes you (it’s easily apparent to anyone and it’s not good), except that the PvPers let you do it whereas you want to deny it to duelers.

But I don’t RP and I’m not talking about RPing. I’m talking about immersion, and in my opinion the immersion base is far larger than most people think it is.

From surveys in the past, we know that in most games only a very small percentage of players actually consider themselves raiders or raid with any regularity. In addition, far less than half the player base PvPs or considers themselves PvPers. So what does that 50% of the playerbase do…they’re not raiding and they’re not PvPing. In other words, they eschew the typical end game.

This is where Guild Wars 2 is strong. It doesn’t really have an end game…at least in the traditional sense. I mean you can PvP on day one. There are no raids.

So I’m guessing the people that like this game tend to be people who don’t like other MMOs as much. In other words, non-raiders…particularly on the PvE side. That’s the rest of us. Not RPers, just people who enjoy the open world.

And I strongly suspect most of them are not pro-dueling.

This is what I don’t get. What’s wrong with dueling in the open world? Its not immersion breaking for me to smack jungle vines around, but the moment I hit another player its beyond the scope of immersion? You’re somehow making the statement that optional dueling will be detrimental to the open world?

“Nope, I don’t have to read everything everyone is saying in map chat, but often there are actual conversations in map chat, at least on my server. It would be a lot harder to hold those with the spam of a duel running through it.”

What? Why would dueling have to be spammed into mapchat anyway? Somebody talks trash, you block them. That’s how it works dueling or no dueling.

I’m trying to see your side of things, but really can’t grasp how dueling is immersion breaking to you. If anything, the utter lack of domestic violence is entirely immersion breaking to me.

And really, it doesn’t even matter if its immersion breaking to you. The amount of annoyance that people might suffer from it is miniscule compared the positive effect this would have on people who want it. You think its not a big deal compared to immersion, but that’s because you’re thinking of the potential negative of not having it, which to you is little to none because you happen to not enjoy it. Try to imagine how the people that just want to bash up their friends would feel if this came out. You need to be considering the potential positive effect, not the lack of negative thakittens having on you right now.

Linnael.1069:

The amount of annoyance that people might suffer from it is miniscule compared the positive effect this would have on people who want it.

Not really.

You want dueling. You would be happy if it were in the game.

We don’t want dueling (see reasons mentioned in previous posts). We would be happy if it were not in the game.

Would your happiness be bigger than ours? Nah. Saying our opinion is “miniscule” compared to yours isn’t doing you any favors.

wolfie.7296:

IndigoSundown.5419:

So are the requests for dueling. Asking for something you want is essentially selfish, as is asking that something you don’t want be left out. Your reasons sound good to you. Their reasons sound good to them. Neither side is being objective — both sides just think they are.

The difference is, one side want it as something they enjoy and you are against it because of bs reasons and as someone who does not want to participate at all. You being against someone else enjoying a feature is extremely selfish and not on par with their ‘selfish’ desire to duel with other players who want to. You have a lot of nerve pretending it’s an ‘equal’ level of selfishness.

Learn to quote. You have a lot of nerve cutting out the part of my post in which I said that I was not against dueling (with proper restrictions) because it was convenient for your argument to be righteously indignant.

So, “your” reasons are good and others’ reasons are BS. Belittling your opposition is the type of behavior that people don’t want to see. This type of behavior does occur in online settings and has been associated with dueling. You’re actually proving your oppositions’ point.

Dueling already exists in the game. It’s in the Mists with the rest of PvP. The argument to have it in the open world is about convenience. That’s fine. However, the argument against having it in the open world is about quality of life (i.e., without griefing). Quality of life concerns trump convenience concerns in my book.

I’m willing to compromise. Are you?

No offense intended, but I’m a little glad open world dueling isn’t in the game. I got so tired of random and repeated duel invitations while I’m trying to do something else in other mmos that it is a refreshing change not to have 8billion duel challenges a day.

Erasculio.2914:

Linnael.1069:

The amount of annoyance that people might suffer from it is miniscule compared the positive effect this would have on people who want it.

Not really.

You want dueling. You would be happy if it were in the game.

We don’t want dueling (see reasons mentioned in previous posts). We would be happy if it were not in the game.

Would your happiness be bigger than ours? Nah. Saying our opinion is “miniscule” compared to yours isn’t doing you any favors.

What reasons were mentioned aside : “MYSELF , do not want duels in my game” ? Ashen & Lenaro already covered pretty much everything , this was supposed to be a constructive topic of pros and cons yet after reading the first posts my head hurts.

People have yet to realise that this in-game feature is OPTIONAL , you never have to partake – nor will it affect you in any way ( ever ). Why I dont understand is if you have zero interest in it why come here and post against it ?

offence.4726:

People have yet to realise that this in-game feature is OPTIONAL , you never have to partake – nor will it affect you in any way ( ever ).

There are dozens of posts in this topic pointing how you are wrong. If you ignored all of them, what makes you think I would bother repeating the same thing again?

Erasculio.2914:

offence.4726:

People have yet to realise that this in-game feature is OPTIONAL , you never have to partake – nor will it affect you in any way ( ever ).

There are dozens of posts in this topic pointing how you are wrong. If you ignored all of them, what makes you think I would bother repeating the same thing again?

Dozens ? I would like some inteligent quotes or serious arguments against this feature , not stuff like omg this game is not balanced around 1v1 scenarios , or people are spamming me with duel requests “what am I gonna do”?.

You have yet to make a relevant point towards this feature nor did you read anything that has been posted by the looks of it. You must be new around here.

The con crowd can say everything they want , dueling is a standard MMO feature it shouldnt be theorycrafted. It’s for fun , meeting new people , getting better at the game , blowing off steam list goes on.

Some of the folks in here dont see in front of their nose though I shall not reply to them anymore.

offence.4726:

You have yet to make a relevant point towards this feature nor did you read anything that has been posted by the looks of it. You must be new around here.

Ad hominem instead of bothering to reply to the arguments that have been mentioned (repeatedly) in this topic… Why am I not surprised you are part of the “let’s duel” crowd?

There have been some points related to open world dueling that have been brought up and I would like to phrase them as questions for those that want open world dueling. Please try not to get defensive that I ask these questions but think about the behavior of the community as a whole.

1. Given the perceived popularity of open world dueling where do you think duels are most likely to take place?
2. Where do you think you are most likely to seek out and participate in duels?
3. Where would you prefer open world dueling to not take place if any?
4. What affect do you think dueling related chat would have on /map? Keeping in mind people looking for duels and people discussing the results of duels.

I ask these questions because they are related to environmental issues as a whole and not necessarily specific to one person that does not want to duel and doesn’t want dueling.

To me the grief argument is pretty weak because it against the already established rules.

It is like old ladies in a good neighborhood (My server TC’s community is the best I have seen in a game.) saying they don’t want a park because it will bring in drug dealers and hoodlums and the kids should just go buy and sandbox and play at home.

We have the police force (The GMs) to enforce the rules.

Will this add more for them to do? Probably a little bit, but after a few examples are made I doubt it would be a problem, and that is assuming it ever gets out of hand.

You are right. We can duel in the mists by buying a server or doing the long process of setting up duels in WvW, but is a huge annoyance and costly, so most people just say F that, and do something else. Sometimes that something else is going to a game that does offer a quick and easy way to duel.

It is contrived and a hassle, and most peoples attitude against an actual dueling feature are akin to saying “I don’t like it, so NO!”

I am not a fan of raiding, but there are some people who are. When I see a thread about raiding I don’t jump in and say “Well, you and 25 buddies can just go and do Lyssa’s temple event, so be happy!.” or “Go back to WoW” Because if it makes some people happy and doesn’t take away what I enjoy doing, I am all for more options and features.
I am sure there will be people in map chat being elitists and bickering about what builds useless and which classes don’t pull their weight. I won’t join in on those conversations because they don’t effect me. It is mapchat not my living room. If I don’t like what’s being discussed that is my problem.

My point is live and let live.

I wonder if we’ve forgotten about the different PvP arenas in each major city in GW1. We could do something similar to benefit people who would like to duel with their PvE gear.

Blargh. I’m done pretending you guys have legitimate arguments.

This is the bottom line:
Dueling is a playstyle currently entirely absent from the game. There is no way you can play against anybody on your server with the PvE build you’ve invested in. WvW doesn’t let you play against your pals or in cool locations. Custom arenas don’t provide the kind of build customization that open world does.

Running around the world immersively is not going to become absent from the game if dueling is added. The community is not going to fill up with trashbums. You aren’t going to lose the ability to block annoying people in map chat. You won’t be spammed with invites every 3 seconds or whispered by every guy out there. People are not going to decide that locations with lots of other people are suddenly great places to 1v1.

As for those of you complaining about effect spam? Your opinion is miniscule. Yup. If you can’t deal with 2 guys throwing things at each other behind whatever panel you’re staring at, you can turn off sound. And if you’re bothered by the visual presence of people casting things, too bad. Your activities won’t disappear. Being slightly annoyed some of the time while doing the activity you enjoy is not worth the complete lack of an activity that others enjoy

Linnael.1069:

As for those of you complaining about effect spam? Your opinion is miniscule. Yup. If you can’t deal with 2 guys throwing things at each other behind whatever panel you’re staring at, you can turn off sound. And if you’re bothered by the visual presence of people casting things, too bad. Your activities won’t disappear. Being slightly annoyed some of the time while doing the activity you enjoy is not worth the complete lack of an activity that others enjoy

Oh I see. So people in PvE should have to limit their enjoyment of the game by turning off the sound so that you can have your fight. People who prefer not to see effects on their screen while at the TP, too bad because you want to have your duel. So basically because you want something and others prefer not to have their game play disrupted by it too bad for them. You are not supporting the argument for open world dueling very much by making statements like, “too bad”.

Fortunately I don’t think open world dueling will ever come to fruition and this will be a non-issue anyway. So if you don’t get it Linnael, guess what, too bad.

Linnael.1069:

Blargh. I’m done pretending you guys have legitimate arguments.

This is the bottom line:
Dueling is a playstyle currently entirely absent from the game. There is no way you can play against anybody on your server with the PvE build you’ve invested in. WvW doesn’t let you play against your pals or in cool locations. Custom arenas don’t provide the kind of build customization that open world does.

Running around the world immersively is not going to become absent from the game if dueling is added. The community is not going to fill up with trashbums. You aren’t going to lose the ability to block annoying people in map chat. You won’t be spammed with invites every 3 seconds or whispered by every guy out there. People are not going to decide that locations with lots of other people are suddenly great places to 1v1.

As for those of you complaining about effect spam? Your opinion is miniscule. Yup. If you can’t deal with 2 guys throwing things at each other behind whatever panel you’re staring at, you can turn off sound. And if you’re bothered by the visual presence of people casting things, too bad. Your activities won’t disappear. Being slightly annoyed some of the time while doing the activity you enjoy is not worth the complete lack of an activity that others enjoy

This is the kind of logic I am seeing from alot of people in this thread.

I enjoy flying my kite and people won’t let me do that in peace due to training dummies. Please remove the dummies from LA so that I may not be bothered. I know I can just go else where and even stay where I am at and fly my kite, but I kept seeing map chat saying “Everyone attack the dummy!” and I really liked standing right there at the time. Also please note the man laughing on the left he is the type of griefer this activity brings. Look at how sad Banono is due to the effects spam.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Linnael.1069:

As for those of you complaining about effect spam? Your opinion is miniscule. Yup. If you can’t deal with 2 guys throwing things at each other behind whatever panel you’re staring at, you can turn off sound. And if you’re bothered by the visual presence of people casting things, too bad. Your activities won’t disappear. Being slightly annoyed some of the time while doing the activity you enjoy is not worth the complete lack of an activity that others enjoy

Oh I see. So people in PvE should have to limit their enjoyment of the game by turning off the sound so that you can have your fight. People who prefer not to see effects on their screen while at the TP, too bad because you want to have your duel. So basically because you want something and others prefer not to have their game play disrupted by it too bad for them. You are not supporting the argument for open world dueling very much by making statements like, “too bad”.

Fortunately I don’t think open world dueling will ever come to fruition and this will be a non-issue anyway. So if you don’t get it Linnael, guess what, too bad.

This is actually exactly what I’m saying.

If dueling is in place, you get to use the TP and we get to duel.
As it is, you get to use the TP and we don’t get to duel.

There’s really no comparison here.

Why do people think that adding in dueling means people are going to do it in the most crowed areas?

That is like the worst place for dueling, hence why people normally go to a flat spot with no enemies somewhere out in the world to duel.

How about this? No dueling in cities.

That is a pretty common thing and will let you craft and trade in peace, while keeping us terrible dueling trolls far from you and what you love.

Vayne.8563:

But I don’t RP and I’m not talking about RPing. I’m talking about immersion, and in my opinion the immersion base is far larger than most people think it is.

From surveys in the past, we know that in most games only a very small percentage of players actually consider themselves raiders or raid with any regularity. In addition, far less than half the player base PvPs or considers themselves PvPers. So what does that 50% of the playerbase do…they’re not raiding and they’re not PvPing. In other words, they eschew the typical end game.

This is where Guild Wars 2 is strong. It doesn’t really have an end game…at least in the traditional sense. I mean you can PvP on day one. There are no raids.

So I’m guessing the people that like this game tend to be people who don’t like other MMOs as much. In other words, non-raiders…particularly on the PvE side. That’s the rest of us. Not RPers, just people who enjoy the open world.

And I strongly suspect most of them are not pro-dueling.

This leads to two main questions, in my mind, that should be answered in the interest of a fair discussion about implementing a new feature.

1. What precisely is it about open world dueling that is detrimental to immersion?

2. If the answer to the first question is that dueling is significantly detrimental to immersion in the game, how can the proposal be altered to move it into the acceptable range for breaking immersion?

I personally don’t see open world dueling as a huge detriment to immersion. There are hundreds of other features that have been implemented that I believe either share the same negatives as dueling or far exceed them. The reason for this is because there are acceptable levels of immersion breaking in a game, if what the feature has to offer isn’t significantly offset by how it ruins the atmosphere it’s worthwhile to implement. However, I obviously have a bias in this area so seeing responses from others would be worthwhile to the discussion.

There have already been many proposed ways to implement dueling, many of which are far more considerate of immersion than many I would suggest. I have played a number of games in which dueling has been a benefit to the community at large. People enjoy participating and people enjoy watching. Everyone? No, but you can’t expect any feature to have universal appeal.

One of the best aspects of dueling is that it’s a form of reusable and dynamic content that has a focus on player-player interaction. It even allows for players to create their own fun and games based upon it. You can set up any rules you want to in advance.

This leads to some incredibly fun alterations on rule-sets, whether they’re for balancing or sheer shenanigans. In fact a clan I led in Anarchy Online had the better part of a month and a half of our member’s time devoted to a dueling season. We started up brand new characters at level 1 and had a series of benchmarks where we would stop, perfect our character in their current state and then undergo a series of duels. This led to an unprecedented amount of our members playing together on a daily basis and genuinely everyone had fun with it. Friendly competition is never a bad thing, if it becomes unfriendly when brought to the community at large the suggested feature by many in this thread should suffice for ignoring it (Have duels set to auto-decline).

I didn’t tell this story entirely to brag about how awesome myself and the people I play games with are, it was only 95% of the reason, but to give an example of the kind of creative and fun content that players can make out of player-player interaction features. They are exactly the form of content that GW2 is currently lacking, and I think dueling would be a strong first step in the right direction.

EDIT
Wow, I really know how to wall of text a thread up. I honestly thought it was shorter this time…

Linnael.1069:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Linnael.1069:

As for those of you complaining about effect spam? Your opinion is miniscule. Yup. If you can’t deal with 2 guys throwing things at each other behind whatever panel you’re staring at, you can turn off sound. And if you’re bothered by the visual presence of people casting things, too bad. Your activities won’t disappear. Being slightly annoyed some of the time while doing the activity you enjoy is not worth the complete lack of an activity that others enjoy

Oh I see. So people in PvE should have to limit their enjoyment of the game by turning off the sound so that you can have your fight. People who prefer not to see effects on their screen while at the TP, too bad because you want to have your duel. So basically because you want something and others prefer not to have their game play disrupted by it too bad for them. You are not supporting the argument for open world dueling very much by making statements like, “too bad”.

Fortunately I don’t think open world dueling will ever come to fruition and this will be a non-issue anyway. So if you don’t get it Linnael, guess what, too bad.

This is actually exactly what I’m saying.

If dueling is in place, you get to use the TP and we get to duel.
As it is, you get to use the TP and we don’t get to duel.

There’s really no comparison here.

Actually, it’s not that you can’t duel, you just don’t want to go to where you can.

No.
Because every argument about every little thing would end up in a duel request, and autoignore cant help that.
I like the community of this game as it is, ANet please dont make me hate it.

Linnael.1069:

Being slightly annoyed some of the time while doing the activity you enjoy is not worth the complete lack of an activity that others enjoy

By this logic, I should be allowed to relieve myself in public. It’s an activity I enjoy and it’s only slightly annoying to you. Sure, it’s obscene and lessens the quality of life for people around, but hey, I enjoy it so it should be allowed.

Listen, I don’t buy into the “quality of life” argument. My concern is balance. But if you are going to try and counter the “quality of life” argument, don’t do it by dismissing someone else’s criteria for enjoyment all the while touting your own.

Craptrain.7203:

Linnael.1069:

Being slightly annoyed some of the time while doing the activity you enjoy is not worth the complete lack of an activity that others enjoy

By this logic, I should be allowed to relieve myself in public. It’s an activity I enjoy and it’s only slightly annoying to you. Sure, it’s obscene and lessens the quality of life for people around, but hey, I enjoy it so it should be allowed.

Listen, I don’t buy into the “quality of life” argument. My concern is balance. But if you are going to try and counter the “quality of life” argument, don’t do it by dismissing someone else’s criteria for enjoyment all the while touting your own.

Relieving yourself in public is more than slightly annoying to nearly everybody witnessing it. Lets not compare apples to oranges here. Dueling isn’t obscene and is only objectionable to a fraction of the people witnessing it.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Linnael.1069:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Linnael.1069:

As for those of you complaining about effect spam? Your opinion is miniscule. Yup. If you can’t deal with 2 guys throwing things at each other behind whatever panel you’re staring at, you can turn off sound. And if you’re bothered by the visual presence of people casting things, too bad. Your activities won’t disappear. Being slightly annoyed some of the time while doing the activity you enjoy is not worth the complete lack of an activity that others enjoy

Oh I see. So people in PvE should have to limit their enjoyment of the game by turning off the sound so that you can have your fight. People who prefer not to see effects on their screen while at the TP, too bad because you want to have your duel. So basically because you want something and others prefer not to have their game play disrupted by it too bad for them. You are not supporting the argument for open world dueling very much by making statements like, “too bad”.

Fortunately I don’t think open world dueling will ever come to fruition and this will be a non-issue anyway. So if you don’t get it Linnael, guess what, too bad.

This is actually exactly what I’m saying.

If dueling is in place, you get to use the TP and we get to duel.
As it is, you get to use the TP and we don’t get to duel.

There’s really no comparison here.

Actually, it’s not that you can’t duel, you just don’t want to go to where you can.

“There is no way you can play against anybody on your server with the PvE build you’ve invested in. "

Actually its that we can’t duel.

Linnael.1069:

This is actually exactly what I’m saying.

If dueling is in place, you get to use the TP and we get to duel.
As it is, you get to use the TP and we don’t get to duel.

There’s really no comparison here.

Okay let’s make it more interesting then. Anyone dueling within a certain distance from a TP, vendor, bank, crafting station etc. is open to attack from any other players in that area. That way people that don’t care can just let you be. If enough people are annoyed by your dueling while they are trying to do something else they can make it go away. Since you feel that dueling in these areas is so insignificant and would not bother most people it shouldn’t be an issue.