Guild Wars 2

castlemanic.3198:

Dromar.1027:

Instead of messing with the gear system why not have traits that are for raids specifically that only work in raid type dungeons and if you want to give it some longevity you can make it so you have to collect random drops from bosses and mobs to finally acquire the trait.

because that gates content from those who dont have the time to collect the random drops within a week. Those who don’t have the drops won’t be able to participate in raids, and raids then become elitist only. It discriminates between those who have time and those who don’t.

Time is irrelevant. Time is not even real anyway, it is a fake system for us to measure a day, week, month, year.

Besides that point, the issue here is not time itself but what people have come to expect. People expect to be able to gain things faster with little to no gates or hoops to jump through. Todays MMORPG genre simply try and pull the life card too often when in actual fact, if you/they are not playing this game, you know they are playing another game, if they aren’t playing that game, they are playing another game and it goes on and on.

The old saying goes here, what you put into it is what you get back out of it, however, greedy instant gratification is what is destroying what used to be once an awesome community to be a part of. What ever happened to the days where people were happy spending 1-2 years gaining gear?

It is what is killing this industry and forcing us into a distinct RPG model where you can basically play solo for your entire characters life and not have to interact with the community on any level.

This removes the MMO from MMMORPG.

Half of what you said contradicts itself just because of the assertion that time is irrelevant. Honestly that’s an assertion that would offend the senses of most people who “pull the real life card too often when in fact when they are not playing this game, you know they are playing another game…” sidenote: people that say Real Life leaves little time to deal with gated content and endless grinds generally mean it. That they play an MMO at all is a testament to how entertaining they find it- that they play one like this with no gated content or gear grind adds credence to their statement that they prefer not having them because they don’t have time to deal with such nonsense.

People have not come to expect things to be instant. People are simply coming around to the realization that Real Life leaves little in the way of free time because most jobs take up 75% of the waking day and most careers take up even more. This causes the desire to not deal with gated content and endless grinds just to play the game they like, as stated above.

“What happened to the days where people were happy spending 1-2 years gaining gear?” Well people spent a year or two doing nothing but gear-grinding and they realized it only took so long because of the endless grinding fluff and they didn’t like it, so they came to a game whose developers stated a very open, fervent intention to never have one. Turns out they like it!

Honestly I think you could affect gear progression by using a variant of the “imbued” system from prophecies.

Remember, how the Mursaaat would destroy your face with spectral agony everywhere you went, and then you got your armor imbued? After that, you went back to those same mursaat and wiped the floor with them.

That was gear progression, but it was focused around the specific content you were progressing the gear for. You didn’t NEED the imbue in cantha or elona, and it wasn’t a base stats thing you felt like you had to have. It was only gear progression you needed to do the content it was designed to progress in, and it was easily achieved by everyone by simply completing content.

Ramp that up, lets say you want to be awesome at slaying ghosts? You can clear AC explorable and upgrade weapons and armor with a “rank” in ghost slaying. This “ghost slaying” rank would apply to any ghost anywhere, and it would stack with any similar potion-like ranks for other mob types. In this way you’re not chasing stats for the sake of chasing stats, but you’re optionally upgrading and specializing your gear against specific types of content you find interesting.

Sorry, I’m 100% against end-game gear progression. The thing I have always loved most about GW1 was that the progression was horizontal; you may not have had many choices when beginning the game, but after you were a decent way into it you could pretty much go wherever you wanted to do the content you actually wanted to do rather than being stuck on a grind that you didn’t even enjoy just to get to the parts of the game you actually wanted to play. I’m thrilled that they kept that mentality in GW2 and that I can finally play end-game for the fun of doing something I love to do rather than having to grind out things I really hate just to keep my stats up to par. In truth, I wish more MMOs would adopt this way of thinking, and try designing games more around “play this to have fun” and less around “play this or you’ll fall behind”.

No. If I wanted gear progression I would have stuck with WoW, Rift, or Tera.

I love the fact that GW2 is a horizontal progressing game, not vertical. The moment I am forced to abandon what I have in favor of something that is more powerful, I leave.

PopeUrban.2578:

Honestly I think you could affect gear progression by using a variant of the “imbued” system from prophecies.

Remember, how the Mursaaat would destroy your face with spectral agony everywhere you went, and then you got your armor imbued? After that, you went back to those same mursaat and wiped the floor with them.

That was gear progression, but it was focused around the specific content you were progressing the gear for. You didn’t NEED the imbue in cantha or elona, and it wasn’t a base stats thing you felt like you had to have. It was only gear progression you needed to do the content it was designed to progress in, and it was easily achieved by everyone by simply completing content.

Ramp that up, lets say you want to be awesome at slaying ghosts? You can clear AC explorable and upgrade weapons and armor with a “rank” in ghost slaying. This “ghost slaying” rank would apply to any ghost anywhere, and it would stack with any similar potion-like ranks for other mob types. In this way you’re not chasing stats for the sake of chasing stats, but you’re optionally upgrading and specializing your gear against specific types of content you find interesting.

there is already that option that adds a maximum of 10% damage against a certain mob type. any further specialisation would veer quickly in the direction of “need ghost slayers for AC explorer”. Which gates content for those who don’t have the time to chase down and get that rank of ghost slaying.

besides, infused armour didnt deal extra damage to mursaat, it helped reduce (immensely i might add) the damage they do to you, and they were intentionally made that difficult for effect.

However, if those ranks of slayer were easy to attain and added slight improvements to damage, then i might consider it, but again, there has to be that balance between adding progression and gating content. If you’re using the imbuing feature as an example, then i think you’re more leaning to the easier to attain side than gating side.

PopeUrban.2578:

Honestly I think you could affect gear progression by using a variant of the “imbued” system from prophecies.

It’s infused.

Just wanted to clear that up, do continue with the discussion.

Why does anyone need some sort of better than I already have reward in order to do content. Why not just enjoy the content for what it is. Fun story to enjoy with friends. And the joy of helping others do it for the first time. If the only reason to do something is for better gear then why play a game at all. That it is like having a second job. The point of this game is to have fun and enjoy the story (stories).

Jia Shen.4217:

Why does anyone need some sort of better than I already have reward in order to do content. Why not just enjoy the content for what it is. Fun story to enjoy with friends. And the joy of helping others do it for the first time. If the only reason to do something is for better gear then why play a game at all. That it is like having a second job. The point of this game is to have fun and enjoy the story (stories).

When you have a player base the size of GW2 you will find that people have different tastes. Alot of people have done the 100% map completion, farmed dungeons etc and now want something else to sink their teeth into.

Lutharr.1035:

When you have a player base the size of GW2 you will find that people have different tastes. Alot of people have done the 100% map completion, farmed dungeons etc and now want something else to sink their teeth into.

Doesnt mean Arena Net should gate content based on gear. besides, plenty of events are coming up, it looks like they’re doing a monthly event thing.

if the dont want gear progression they will have to churn out content at a very fast pace to keep people playing. They wanna sell those gems so they need people to play, that wont be the case if they get bored.

As people have said before gating and gear progression is a subtle (well probably not so subtle these days) of making content last longer. Without it you need more content.

Dangerhunt, progress through numeric increase is boring, and it’s an endless loop, because you’ll ask for bigger numbers again and again.

True progress is done by adding skills and synergies, as well as interesting procs/effects to equipment (instead of boring stats).

For example, giving each Skill 3-5 variants that you must unlock – like in Diablo 3 – would be very interesting.
I’m talking of Weapon Skills as well.
To unlock the variants you’d spend Skill Points, wich would create a huge end game.

Add legendary armour to the game with a minor 0.25% stat increase per piece but an epic cosmetic look to it. That should keep the OP busy for the next hundred years finding all the materials for a full suit of legendary armour and jewellery. If each piece was as challenging to get as a legendary weapon… crisis averted.

Nurvus.2891:

To unlock the variants you’d spend Skill Points, wich would create a huge end game.

Or skill capturing from GW1.

You have to use Skill Points to buy a Signet of Capture, then you’d have to hunt the monster and kill it to get the skill.

I’d feel that’d be more interesting than spending skill points.

castlemanic.3198:

Dromar.1027:

Instead of messing with the gear system why not have traits that are for raids specifically that only work in raid type dungeons and if you want to give it some longevity you can make it so you have to collect random drops from bosses and mobs to finally acquire the trait.

because that gates content from those who dont have the time to collect the random drops within a week. Those who don’t have the drops won’t be able to participate in raids, and raids then become elitist only. It discriminates between those who have time and those who don’t.

GW2 already discriminates against those who enjoy the game but want a challenge. PvE, sPvP and WvW offer no challenge whatsoever atm. Any decent MMO game should have something to offer to everyone and so far it caters to PvPers and casuals. Most people who want raids that require time and are challenging are not jerk elitists. They are people who want the game to have longevity for them and offer a challenge.

Dromar.1027:

GW2 already discriminates against those who enjoy the game but want a challenge. PvE, sPvP and WvW offer no challenge whatsoever atm.

That’s really not down to the game not having a gear progression. That’s down to the mechanics of the Dungeons and DE’s.

If the Dungeons were incredibly difficult, more-so than now, or the DE’s had more than one threat to them so you’re mind wasn’t on loot, but where you’d be most helpful, that could be a challenge, without the need for gear progression.

Archmortal.1027:

Half of what you said contradicts itself just because of the assertion that time is irrelevant. Honestly that’s an assertion that would offend the senses of most people who “pull the real life card too often when in fact when they are not playing this game, you know they are playing another game…” sidenote: people that say Real Life leaves little time to deal with gated content and endless grinds generally mean it. That they play an MMO at all is a testament to how entertaining they find it- that they play one like this with no gated content or gear grind adds credence to their statement that they prefer not having them because they don’t have time to deal with such nonsense.

People have not come to expect things to be instant. People are simply coming around to the realization that Real Life leaves little in the way of free time because most jobs take up 75% of the waking day and most careers take up even more. This causes the desire to not deal with gated content and endless grinds just to play the game they like, as stated above.

“What happened to the days where people were happy spending 1-2 years gaining gear?” Well people spent a year or two doing nothing but gear-grinding and they realized it only took so long because of the endless grinding fluff and they didn’t like it, so they came to a game whose developers stated a very open, fervent intention to never have one. Turns out they like it!

You just don’t get it.

Years ago when people were happy playing a game for years, we did so for the community aspect of it. We still had social lives, kids, mortages etc. We weren’t some hermit dwelling teenage kids in mums basement who played 12 – 14 hours, 7 days a week.

We played casually for years gained what we could in the time we spent playing and enjoyed each others company while adventuring. Today however, people tend to pull the life card more then they should, we all work (most of us), we all have problems (bills, mental health issues etc), we all have social lives (going out with family and friends etc), however they tend to abuse this using it as a means to gain access to content faster. We all know that if you aren’t playing this game, you are simply playing another so the time you would of spent here gaming is just spent in another game elsewhere, so you can’t fool us, we are the ginger bread men. Nothing has changed with how we spend our time out of game any different to how it was 15 years ago with the expection of how todays generation percieves that time spent. Today people are in more of a rush.

Making content more accessible and easier has done good and bad for the MMORPG industry. It removed the fear that people like yourself had where the general perception of MMORPG gaming was having no life, living on a game to simply farm gear, which it wasn’t. This increased the amount of people to cater games too on a yearly basis where there was only 3 or 4 titles to choose from. However, what it has done over that past 15 years is, killed the community aspect of it.

There was a sense of pride and loyalty back in the day with MMORPG gaming, now, there is simply game hoppers.

Lutharr.1035:

if the dont want gear progression they will have to churn out content at a very fast pace to keep people playing. They wanna sell those gems so they need people to play, that wont be the case if they get bored.

As people have said before gating and gear progression is a subtle (well probably not so subtle these days) of making content last longer. Without it you need more content.

And here we have the reason for this kind of thing to be added. See the thing is they don’t want you to keep playing longer than you want to play. Their whole mission is contrary to the traditional model of milking the customer by keeping them playing longer than they need to. Their mission is make a game that is fun to play that people want to play because it is fun to play. And when they have had all the fun they can out of the current content they go off and do something else and come back to the game. I’m not sure if there is much point in talking business models as it too often degrades into arguing.

The bottom line is all you need is enough people playing and buying the game to continue to operate the game and still make a profit. You don’t need those people to never stop playing the game. This is easily proved by looking at quarterly statements to see just how many people have to buy the game (expansion) each year to cover those costs. The rest is profit. Having a cash shop means this can be achieve with even less players buying the game as they likely will spend more money that way and some not think twice about it because they feel it worth it. But the rest don’t have too and it works out great for everyone. As long as people have fun with the game others will buy the game because their friend(s) are having fun. I think you underestimate the power that has to drive sales. They don’t need to churn content so fast that everyone that starts playing doesn’t stop playing to maintain the revenue needed to operate and continue developing.

But anyways, my point again is nobody needs another uber object, gain in levels, or carrot to chase after to have a reason to play the game. They only think they do because they have been convinced they need it from all the games out there who’s business model relies/relied on deceiving their player base into thinking that way in order to get them to keep playing so that they keep paying more than they needed to. And I’m sorry if I hit any nerves with that statement. Sure some people will have fun repeating content but it gets old quick if the only reason you do it is for the carrot your chasing after.

Believe me I’ve gone down that road. I’d have fun at first because it was something new and might have even had a neat story with it. I even got caught up in the grind tredmill for that next gear item. And then shortly into that I came to the realization that I was being stupid and only doing content to get the gear but hated the fact that I was doing it only for that reason. The content wasn’t fun. So I snap myself out of that because I want to have fun playing games not have them be a second job.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Dromar.1027:

GW2 already discriminates against those who enjoy the game but want a challenge. PvE, sPvP and WvW offer no challenge whatsoever atm.

That’s really not down to the game not having a gear progression. That’s down to the mechanics of the Dungeons and DE’s.

If the Dungeons were incredibly difficult, more-so than now, or the DE’s had more than one threat to them so you’re mind wasn’t on loot, but where you’d be most helpful, that could be a challenge, without the need for gear progression.

I’d just add to this that wouldn’t overcoming the challenge be rewarding enough? Thus again there is no need for that gear carrot to make you want to do the content and keep playing. And challenge is quite subjective and to many the content is challenging enough. They can always add layers to the content by adding uber challenge modes to satisfy that smaller player set that wants that super challenge that isn’t in the game yet. But there is no need to tie an uber reward with it there by excluding those who already find the current content challenging enough or even too challenging. Discrimination goes both ways.

Jia Shen.4217:

Lutharr.1035:

if the dont want gear progression they will have to churn out content at a very fast pace to keep people playing. They wanna sell those gems so they need people to play, that wont be the case if they get bored.

As people have said before gating and gear progression is a subtle (well probably not so subtle these days) of making content last longer. Without it you need more content.

And here we have the reason for this kind of thing to be added. See the thing is they don’t want you to keep playing longer than you want to play. Their whole mission is contrary to the traditional model of milking the customer by keeping them playing longer than they need to. Their mission is make a game that is fun to play that people want to play because it is fun to play. And when they have had all the fun they can out of the current content they go off and do something else and come back to the game. I’m not sure if there is much point in talking business models as it too often degrades into arguing.

The bottom line is all you need is enough people playing and buying the game to continue to operate the game and still make a profit. You don’t need those people to never stop playing the game. This is easily proved by looking at quarterly statements to see just how many people have to buy the game (expansion) each year to cover those costs. The rest is profit. Having a cash shop means this can be achieve with even less players buying the game as they likely will spend more money that way and some not think twice about it because they feel it worth it. But the rest don’t have too and it works out great for everyone. As long as people have fun with the game others will buy the game because their friend(s) are having fun. I think you underestimate the power that has to drive sales. They don’t need to churn content so fast that everyone that starts playing doesn’t stop playing to maintain the revenue needed to operate and continue developing.

But anyways, my point again is nobody needs another uber object, gain in levels, or carrot to chase after to have a reason to play the game. They only think they do because they have been convinced they need it from all the games out there who’s business model relies/relied on deceiving their player base into thinking that way in order to get them to keep playing so that they keep paying more than they needed to. And I’m sorry if I hit any nerves with that statement. Sure some people will have fun repeating content but it gets old quick if the only reason you do it is for the carrot your chasing after.

Believe me I’ve gone down that road. I’d have fun at first because it was something new and might have even had a neat story with it. I even got caught up in the grind tredmill for that next gear item. And then shortly into that I came to the realization that I was being stupid and only doing content to get the gear but hated the fact that I was doing it only for that reason. The content wasn’t fun. So I snap myself out of that because I want to have fun playing games not have them be a second job.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Dromar.1027:

GW2 already discriminates against those who enjoy the game but want a challenge. PvE, sPvP and WvW offer no challenge whatsoever atm.

That’s really not down to the game not having a gear progression. That’s down to the mechanics of the Dungeons and DE’s.

If the Dungeons were incredibly difficult, more-so than now, or the DE’s had more than one threat to them so you’re mind wasn’t on loot, but where you’d be most helpful, that could be a challenge, without the need for gear progression.

I’d just add to this that wouldn’t overcoming the challenge be rewarding enough? Thus again there is no need for that gear carrot to make you want to do the content and keep playing. And challenge is quite subjective and to many the content is challenging enough. They can always add layers to the content by adding uber challenge modes to satisfy that smaller player set that wants that super challenge that isn’t in the game yet. But there is no need to tie an uber reward with it there by excluding those who already find the current content challenging enough or even too challenging. Discrimination goes both ways.

Fun in my book is having something new and fresh to do or participate in when logging in.

Doing the same old content over and over is boring = customers leave.

Taemek.1602:

Archmortal.1027:

Half of what you said contradicts itself just because of the assertion that time is irrelevant. Honestly that’s an assertion that would offend the senses of most people who “pull the real life card too often when in fact when they are not playing this game, you know they are playing another game…” sidenote: people that say Real Life leaves little time to deal with gated content and endless grinds generally mean it. That they play an MMO at all is a testament to how entertaining they find it- that they play one like this with no gated content or gear grind adds credence to their statement that they prefer not having them because they don’t have time to deal with such nonsense.

People have not come to expect things to be instant. People are simply coming around to the realization that Real Life leaves little in the way of free time because most jobs take up 75% of the waking day and most careers take up even more. This causes the desire to not deal with gated content and endless grinds just to play the game they like, as stated above.

“What happened to the days where people were happy spending 1-2 years gaining gear?” Well people spent a year or two doing nothing but gear-grinding and they realized it only took so long because of the endless grinding fluff and they didn’t like it, so they came to a game whose developers stated a very open, fervent intention to never have one. Turns out they like it!

You just don’t get it.

Years ago when people were happy playing a game for years, we did so for the community aspect of it. We still had social lives, kids, mortages etc. We weren’t some hermit dwelling teenage kids in mums basement who played 12 – 14 hours, 7 days a week.

We played casually for years gained what we could in the time we spent playing and enjoyed each others company while adventuring. Today however, people tend to pull the life card more then they should, we all work (most of us), we all have problems (bills, mental health issues etc), we all have social lives (going out with family and friends etc), however they tend to abuse this using it as a means to gain access to content faster. We all know that if you aren’t playing this game, you are simply playing another so the time you would of spent here gaming is just spent in another game elsewhere, so you can’t fool us, we are the ginger bread men. Nothing has changed with how we spend our time out of game any different to how it was 15 years ago with the expection of how todays generation percieves that time spent. Today people are in more of a rush.

Making content more accessible and easier has done good and bad for the MMORPG industry. It removed the fear that people like yourself had where the general perception of MMORPG gaming was having no life, living on a game to simply farm gear, which it wasn’t. This increased the amount of people to cater games too on a yearly basis where there was only 3 or 4 titles to choose from. However, what it has done over that past 15 years is, killed the community aspect of it.

There was a sense of pride and loyalty back in the day with MMORPG gaming, now, there is simply game hoppers.

So the whole argument is based on community livelihood/pride and not an individual’s potential to enjoy a game with no fluff versus enjoying a game with fluff?

Well then I don’t get it because that’s not the purpose of the topic. We’re not talking about building a fiercely loyal community, we’re talking about the potential enjoyment a player can get in a game without fluff versus a game with fluff. I hesitate to call grind-addiction enjoyment. As you said, people are in a rush these days. No one wants to spend 6 days a week grinding fluff in order to be allowed to play the part of the game they want on day 7.

I didn’t have the time to read through all replies, but I will express my opinion to the point of this thread. I am fairly new to the game, just got to level 30 a day or two ago. I am also a casual, mature player, with job, family and the sort. My playing time is somewhere around 10 hours/week on normal conditions (aka most of the time).

More importantly maybe, I am not a fan of MMOs. I could never get into games like WoW for example specifically because of vertical progression. I wouldn’t mind gear grinding per se, as long as is optional. Unfortunately, it never quite really is. The direct and unavoidable consequence of that is the fact that a casual player like me never got to experience the end game properly. I never got to do any raids for example, because I couldn’t find the time to gear myself properly and be admitted in a team.

This is one of the main reasons I bought Guild Wars 2, I thought look, finally an MMO where I can actually experience the whole content even if I am a casual player. I can understand and respect the OPs point of view, but from where I am implementing a vertical progression in GW2 would almost ruin the game for me. In the end, horizontal progression is one of the things that make this game what it is, setting it apart from other MMOs.

This being said, I’ve seen many people desiring something more from end-game, so maybe ANet needs to make something up, compe up with a new, cool idea and like Azaziel states, give people something to brag about. Me, I’d be happy to roll a new toon, I am 50 hours into this game, only one character, and explored 9% of the map or something like that. As far as I am concerned, I won’t run out of things to do for a year in GW2.

Cheers everyone!

Jia Shen.4217:

Why does anyone need some sort of better than I already have reward in order to do content. Why not just enjoy the content for what it is. Fun story to enjoy with friends. And the joy of helping others do it for the first time. If the only reason to do something is for better gear then why play a game at all. That it is like having a second job. The point of this game is to have fun and enjoy the story (stories).

Are you 1—% alturistic like that in RL as well. If not then any reason to describe why not can be very well applied to a game. Simple as.

Gear progression only brings 3 things. Elitism and time wasting. Games like WoW/SWTOR/RIFT/AION so on needed such progressions cause they needed to limit people into the game for as long as possible. Even if they only logged once a week to raid.

Elitism comes from the form of Content is there only for the elite. If you aren’t gear you aren’t good you cannot come join a raid. I used to play as a tank, a very kitten good one while on it. Every raid was always the same, finish people fighting over drops or some lame guild rules were put on that left new members not wanting to raid at all. Month or so after, everyone is fully gear and kittening on more content. More content is released and those who got gear go on those who didn’t get left behind, over and over the cycle never ends. Also in most cases I would log on say alo to guild and be received with more X guild already got X gear or we are ahead to Y guild lalala. No fun just comparison just boredom.

Time wasting comes in the form of how much you grind something to even hope to get something. Let’s say I grind the hell out of AC I am not ready to do CM, all my AC gear I so cherish, is gone. Done with CM time to go to the next until I reach Arah and bore the hell out of myself. This puts a lot of weight on the players and the devs alike. Ever wondered why WoW release so much garbage content in between? Same as many other games.

3rd reason is simple, crafting gear becomes useless. You craft something and use it for a day or two before you drop something better, mats time farming them and so on goes to hell.

Taemek.1602:

Doing the same old content over and over is boring = customers leave.

But that’s the point really if you aren’t enjoying the content then you do something else and come back when there is new content. Remember the reason most traditional MMOs have the carrot for you to chase is to get you to keep doing the content (even though your bored of it) to get something so that you keep paying to play. It is the focus. Companies like arenanet their focus is on the game being fun and players wanting to play it because it is fun. They don’t need us to keep playing it continuously. When we are done having fun we can come back when the new content is added to have fun with it and stop when we are done having fun, rinse repeat.

Dzonatan.5327:

Jia Shen.4217:

Why does anyone need some sort of better than I already have reward in order to do content. Why not just enjoy the content for what it is. Fun story to enjoy with friends. And the joy of helping others do it for the first time. If the only reason to do something is for better gear then why play a game at all. That it is like having a second job. The point of this game is to have fun and enjoy the story (stories).

Are you 1—% alturistic like that in RL as well. If not then any reason to describe why not can be very well applied to a game. Simple as.

I guess so because I don’t go to the movies expecting some sort of prize after enjoying the story. Or any other form of entertainment. Why would it be any different in a game? Why can’t just any normal RPG loot be given for content completed? Why does it have to be better than anything you’ve gotten previously? Does that somehow change the enjoyment (fun had) of the content? Heck why does there have to be gear in the first place? Most old school RPGs didn’t (or had minimal gear that was provided to you in various ways along the way) as they, like GW2, were all about having fun and telling a story. Remember the reason to do the content is supposed to be because it is fun. If your doing it only because you get something nice at the end, I’m afraid it’s time to re-evaluate why you are bothering to play the game. I did this with other MMOs. When the answer was only because of the new gear I quit the games because the point in playing a game is supposed to be having fun. There’s no point in playing if your not having fun. So if the content isn’t fun any more I don’t know how adding a progressive gear climb as incentive to repeat the content is somehow going to change that.

Jia Shen.4217:

Taemek.1602:

Doing the same old content over and over is boring = customers leave.

But that’s the point really if you aren’t enjoying the content then you do something else and come back when there is new content. Remember the reason most traditional MMOs have the carrot for you to chase is to get you to keep doing the content (even though your bored of it) to get something so that you keep paying to play. It is the focus. Companies like arenanet their focus is on the game being fun and players wanting to play it because it is fun. They don’t need us to keep playing it continuously. When we are done having fun we can come back when the new content is added to have fun with it and stop when we are done having fun, rinse repeat.

Dzonatan.5327:

Jia Shen.4217:

Why does anyone need some sort of better than I already have reward in order to do content. Why not just enjoy the content for what it is. Fun story to enjoy with friends. And the joy of helping others do it for the first time. If the only reason to do something is for better gear then why play a game at all. That it is like having a second job. The point of this game is to have fun and enjoy the story (stories).

Are you 1—% alturistic like that in RL as well. If not then any reason to describe why not can be very well applied to a game. Simple as.

I guess so because I don’t go to the movies expecting some sort of prize after enjoying the story. Or any other form of entertainment. Why would it be any different in a game? Why can’t just any normal RPG loot be given for content completed? Why does it have to be better than anything you’ve gotten previously? Does that somehow change the enjoyment (fun had) of the content? Heck why does there have to be gear in the first place? Most old school RPGs didn’t (or had minimal gear that was provided to you in various ways along the way) as they, like GW2, were all about having fun and telling a story. Remember the reason to do the content is supposed to be because it is fun. If your doing it only because you get something nice at the end, I’m afraid it’s time to re-evaluate why you are bothering to play the game. I did this with other MMOs. When the answer was only because of the new gear I quit the games because the point in playing a game is supposed to be having fun. There’s no point in playing if your not having fun. So if the content isn’t fun any more I don’t know how adding a progressive gear climb as incentive to repeat the content is somehow going to change that.

Have you ever considered that your view on whats fun isnt the only one in the world? You do realise that because of the way the endgame has been done that people have mainly done all the story and explorerer modes. Alot of folks dont find things fun once its been done the once unless they have something to work for. Ya know that to some people (alot of people) they enjoy (aka have fun) chasing things that improve their toons.

Lutharr.1035:

Have you ever considered that your view on whats fun isnt the only one in the world? You do realise that because of the way the endgame has been done that people have mainly done all the story and explorerer modes. Alot of folks dont find things fun once its been done the once unless they have something to work for. Ya know that to some people (alot of people) they enjoy (aka have fun) chasing things that improve their toons.

The problem with this , is that it goes both ways.

While you think this would add a new level of fun , i think this would directly diminish the fun i have ingame atm…

This stalemate is the problem , we got player on both sides right now. How to decide who is right? Cant really be done since this a matter of opinion.

All i can say is that this game was promised my way , so unless your side one day get the smashing majority , i dont see this changing.

Nox Aeterna.2965:

Lutharr.1035:

Have you ever considered that your view on whats fun isnt the only one in the world? You do realise that because of the way the endgame has been done that people have mainly done all the story and explorerer modes. Alot of folks dont find things fun once its been done the once unless they have something to work for. Ya know that to some people (alot of people) they enjoy (aka have fun) chasing things that improve their toons.

The problem with this , is that it goes both ways.

While you think this would add a new level of fun , i think this would directly diminish the fun i have ingame atm…

This stalemate is the problem , we got player on both sides right now. How to decide who is right? Cant really be done since this a matter of opinion.

All i can say is that this game was promised my way , so unless your side one day get the smashing majority , i dont see this changing.

I think the difference is that most that want to see this kind of thing happen try to think of ways to make it so while not ruining it for other sort of players. WHile those apposed seem to be of the mind that screw those that want it cos their view is the only one that counts.

Lutharr.1035:

I think the difference is that most that want to see this kind of thing happen try to think of ways to make it so while not ruining it for other sort of players. WHile those apposed seem to be of the mind that screw those that want it cos their view is the only one that counts.

That is simple because , even if they dont , it is unlike they lose.

Atm like i said , the game works one way , the way it is promised to work. If we get 50/50 of the player base on this matter (just an example) , for the people on the side against the change a simple : “Horrible idea , i dont like it , will stop playing if this ever goes on” , is enough to stop the change most likely.

Therefore it falls to the party that wants the change to happen to try to convince players to their side , making any amount of changes they need to original idea till they can convince enough players to join them.

It is not strange at all players defend with a simple : “No, stupid idea” , they are on the advantage , they are simple using it.

The thing is and this is universally true no matter what MMO your playing, you will always have certain kinds of players in any given game. I think the days of catering to one demographic of playing styles is long gone. People dont have time to invest in different games to fulfill each aspect of their gaming desires. People like me enjoy investing their time and effort into one MMO.

People harp on about turning GW2 into WoW with any suggestion thats made in these forums. What folks forget is that said game has a layer base of 10 million people for a reason. Even if I dont enjoy the game anymore myself I can still where they have done things correctly.

Since the endgame focus was raids lets have a little look at how they tried to handle keeping everyone happy. They had 3 tiers of the same raid. They were almost identical. Looking For Raid mode was very basic and was there to get people into raiding at the ground floor. Normal mode when the majority of people spent their raiding, and then Heroic mode (til they killed em with their pathetic nurfs).

The gear looked the exact same so if a simular system was in GW2 people aint forced to do harder content for skins unless thats what they wanted to do. But it also gives those people who want a greater challange something else to chase and choice.

The extra stats made the harder instances possible, but the overall feel of the instances was the same. So those saying it would ruin the game are talking tripe imo. If you want to do a dungeon/instance etc for the fun of it only, then good for you. I for one wouldnt begrudge you that. But why begrudge me what I want if it only eefects you if you so choice to jump on that treadmill. Personally I feel that to many people are just plain selfish and want what they want and kitten anyone else.

Personally I feel that to many people are just plain selfish and want what they want and kitten anyone else.

No offense but that’s exactly how a lot of the people who want gear grinding sound to people who don’t want it. Unfortunately, I haven’t seen a single MMO yet that managed to stop content from becoming gated once gear grinding was introduced. All it takes is for a few people to start denying players on the grounds that their gear is sub-par (even if the difference is actually rather minimal) and the mentality spreads like wildfire; in other games, I have seen people rage, threaten others, and kick perfectly good players from groups just because they didn’t have that one armor piece with that tiny extra stat that might have made the dungeon go two minutes faster. It can get ridiculous and I can’t blame players in the slightest for being afraid that introducing vertical progression into the game would cause GW2 to sink into that same dismal abyss of problems that causes a large number of players to lose all fun from grouped content – content which they otherwise would have loved and enjoyed. (I’m also not a big fan of gear inspection options because of this; if your build is different from what someone perceives as the “best” build for your class, and therefore your stat distribution doesn’t meet their expectations, there are a ton of people out there who won’t think twice about screaming in your face and trying to rally the group to kick you. If they have more friends than you, you’re kicked – no matter how good your build actually might have been or how proficient you were at playing it.)

I can easily see how having something to work for would make the game more fun for people, and I support that mentality; everyone has fun in their own way, after all. Still, I thought that’s what legendaries, specialized armor looks, etc. were for – ‘fluff’ in a sense since they don’t actually boost your stats and therefore will never be required in order to access gated content, but still special and something that takes a long time and a lot of work to get. I don’t mind grind rewards at all for people who really just need something to work toward in order to enjoy the game, but what is wrong with those grinded-out items being fluff? If they’re fluff, they can still be really amazing and have effects that only a few people in the game will ever attain, but they have no chance at destroying other players’ enjoyment of the game. And if the fluff is an armor, weapon, or special effect, it’s not like it’s something you’ll never use.

If you just want to grind for the feeling of constantly becoming more powerful, then maybe some adjustments to the home instance would be nice – have the NPCs in there greet you like a hero and throw great parties in your honor or something. Deck your walls with trophies taken from your enemies or turn your humble shack into a magnificent castle. But surely there must be a way to insert something to grind for that doesn’t have to affect content to the extent that people will be able to gate it.

I’m honestly very curious about this and would like to know: is there anything at all non-stat related that would help you to enjoy the game more and give you something to work for? Or does it absolutely, without a doubt, have to have an impact on your statistics or ability to kill things such that it would give you a numbers advantage over a player who didn’t have it?

@Kudzu
Greeting. And for once someone who may not share others point of view but comes across as someone with whom folks can have a decent and informed conversation with.

I totally understand the concerns on such matters. One of the reasons in another thread I straight up opposed the inspect option. I used to be a very hardcore player in WoW but I was far from elitist, Its still only a game when all is said and done. I understand that when you bring gated content you will get some dregs who act like total plebs (i like this word as it dont get turned into kitten). We have it now already in GW2 and there is no gate, and the instances are easy. These people will act like they do cos frankly. They are just the usual internet trolls ya always find rear their heads.

The 3 tier system is alot easier to impliment than folks think. Gives bosses more health, hit harder and maybe give em an extra ability here or there. But overall its someones choice to be there. The gear (i dont know how easy it would be to code) would be normal exotic outside a (lets call the high end dungeons heroic for now). So you wouldnt have the dumb people asking for people in heroic gear to enter normal dungeons.

In the end if they dont include more to do at 80 lots of people will abandon the game no matter what potential it has. If they introduce a ton of new content at a good pace then I think the whole gear treadmill could be avoided. But its weather Anet has the resources to keep up with the demand.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Bigger stats? Nope.
More skins? Please.

agreed.

Gear treadmills only give the illusion that you are becoming more powerful. Once you hit the next rung (which you constantly must do) you’re weak again. They don’t give you power, they gate content.

Skins give you esthetic satisfaction every second they are on screen. Stat treadmills, for all the “usefulness” that people tout, have less lasting function than skins.

Lutharr.1035:

What folks forget is that said game has a layer base of 10 million people for a reason.

& it has nothing to do with gear treadmills. WoW was considered casual compared to the alternatives when it came out. WoW’s massive success is timing & finally making MMOs accessible for the first time. Once 1 game did that, it was going to be king. No one else has come CLOSE even though most MMOs copy the formula exactly.
No, gear treadmill isn’t WoW’s special sauce. in fact, most players don’t even go for the high end treadmill in WoW.

i didnt read everything, actualy i just read OP and i have a question.

is grinding gear playing? not for me

@Lutharr
Thank you for the reply; I’m doing my best to understand where people are coming from. It would be great if we could hit on a solution that might keep everyone happy.

When you mention the tier system, how exactly do you picture it working in GW2? Would there basically be three different versions of each dungeon, all with duplicate content but varying degrees of difficulty? (For example, three versions of CM that all have the same layout, the same story, the same bosses, etc. but vary in how much health the mobs have or mechanics the bosses might use?)

Do you think people might be more satisfied if they could choose a higher level of difficulty for instanced content like dungeons, without having more powerful gear being the reward? For instance, if a group ran a dungeon on maximum difficulty, they would still be fighting with the same exotics that anyone else in the game could attain without ever entering that difficult instance – but if they did manage to overcome that challenge, they could have much higher drop rates for rare materials, good-looking weapons or armor, and currency.

I’m just wondering if it would be possible to give gear grinding players the sort of playstyle they enjoy without having to introduce the gear buffs that often lead to gated content.

Absolutely not, this would be unfair for WvW.

Cloud.7613:

Absolutely not, this would be unfair for WvW.

try reading more, maybe you may discover something.

@Kudzu. Basically yes, that would be an ideal solution in my eyes. People who like easier content can have their fun while those that like to push it a little further can have theirs. Everyones happy (well this is the net so most likely not everyone).

Kudzu.7569:

Do you think people might be more satisfied if they could choose a higher level of difficulty for instanced content like dungeons, without having more powerful gear being the reward? For instance, if a group ran a dungeon on maximum difficulty, they would still be fighting with the same exotics that anyone else in the game could attain without ever entering that difficult instance – but if they did manage to overcome that challenge, they could have much higher drop rates for rare materials, good-looking weapons or armor, and currency.

I’m just wondering if it would be possible to give gear grinding players the sort of playstyle they enjoy without having to introduce the gear buffs that often lead to gated content.

That would actually be a great solution. Content isn’t gated because there is no prerequisite gear. the dungeons are available to everyone to enjoy, and different difficulties allows a progression that isn’t available anywhere else in game and also doesnt interfere with other people’s ability to play the dungeon either.

My friend, you’ve found the middle ground, a feat no one could have imagined.

First, to address the topic at hand (although I’m sure others have already went over this at length):

No.

It would wreck balance six ways from Sunday. In PvE, you’d be one-shotting Risen, trivializing even the Event Bosses in Orr. I understand that this IS some peoples’ idea of fun, but it is still grossly out of balance.

It would be worse in PvP, however. It would become a numbers game. If you can deal 10x normal damage to your opponent, and take 1/10 damage FROM them, what is even the point of the fight? Nobody would enter PvP because too many people would have too much advantage. (And since sPvP equipment is gained FROM sPvP, they’d have no way of upgrading. Unless you’re excluding sPvP from your suggestion.)

There. No to address a few other points brought up:

“Wow this game is great I just wish the game had more game at this level of game.” I understand where it’s coming from, but I really think people need to break out of their old paradigms for a moment and take a look at the game with fresh perspective, rather than fresh eyes. Almost all the “nothing to do at 80” is coming from a mindset born of another MMO and their gear progression rather than an objective look at the game for what it is and what it was designed to play like.

Exactly. This is something many players can’t seem to get used to. In games where it’s all about the “endgame”, that ends up translating as “nothing to do until endgame”. Arenanet has content at all levels (although dungeons wait until you are capable of bringing a full skillbar to bear). When people get obsessed about the “endgame”, I want to ask them “what about everything before you’re level 80?” (And sometimes, I do ask them.) There’s a whole game out there they’re missing!

There can not be a game with no need of gear grind in a game that has gear grind. Thats like calling the apple an orange.

It’s true. Once you introduce stat progression beyond the level maximum, the balance issues I described above make it mandatory.

A lot of games seem to put in the large numbers for endgame stuff just because people expect them and like seeing them. There’s a certain feeling of power when you realize that you’ve gone from your best attack dealing 1,000 damage to a scrappy to the same attack dealing 450,000 damage on the same monster.

But what’s the point? What is the difference between doing 1,000 damage to an enemy with 50,000 health, and doing 450,000 damage to an enemy with 22,500,000 health? (Because really, using it to one-shot the weaklings will never entertain for more than a minor diversion.)

The numbers game IS an illusion when they make enemies keep getting stronger too, and an imbalance when they don’t.

[i]… or maybe paint pellets for my rifle. Why kill ’em when you can “pink” them?[/]

A paintgun would be an excellent “toy” item for town clothes, complete with costume brawl skills to the effect of paintball. For an added bonus, have it have a dye slot – just one – to determine the paint color.

[i]So the only thing you want to do is farm for better stats? Nothing else? Not even try having fun? Those dungeons could be amazing and memorable for all you know, but you won’t go near them if they won’t give you better stats? What’s the point of having better stats if the only thing you’d even use them for is to farm for even better stats?

That seems ridiculous to me. GW2 is a game, it’s for playing. If you’re looking for repetitive work there are plenty of employers that would love to hire you.[/i]

Quite simply, a post after my own heart. It’s an argument I’ve made to others – sometimes, a person just wants to have fun.

Now, I suppose there ARE some people for whom gear grinding IS fun. It’s their right to have the fun they want. Fortunately, there ARE games that cater to such audiences.

GW2 cannot do things both ways. They ARE mutually exclusive. You cannot have a gear treadmill AND no gear treadmill, at the same time. This ain’t Schrodinger’s Cat, here!

dangerhunt, you are right that you have every right to ask this. However, Arenanet has made clear their intentions to avoid the gear treadmill. Everything was designed so that all basic content would be within the reach of people, even if they didn’t have 6 hours a day free time, every day, to grind for it. So, you can ask this question… but the answer, from Arenanet’s own vision of the game, will remain “no”.

I’m following the dicussion in full and like Kudzu.7569 I’m trying to understand the position for the gear progression and whatnot.

Lutharr.1035:

Have you ever considered that your view on whats fun isnt the only one in the world? You do realise that because of the way the endgame has been done that people have mainly done all the story and explorerer modes. Alot of folks dont find things fun once its been done the once unless they have something to work for. Ya know that to some people (alot of people) they enjoy (aka have fun) chasing things that improve their toons.

My position isn’t of a type of fun as you appear to have misunderstood me. I’m making a point and expecting answers to my legitimate questions. Is the content you (genric you) do in GW2 fun? If so then why do you need any new improved gear reward for doing something you have fun doing instead of what it already gives? If you’re not having fun doing the content then how does adding a new improved gear reward to that content all of a sudden make it fun? And if it doesn’t then why desire them to add a new improved gear reward to something you aren’t having fun doing so you have to do something you’re not having fun doing to get it?

Lutharr.1035:

WHile those apposed seem to be of the mind that screw those that want it cos their view is the only one that counts.

There may be some that think that, I certainly don’t. What matters is arenanets mission for the game. How gear works is part of their philosophy and how it works now is because of that. Personally I will get whatever the best gear is because I like to have the best gear. It’s an old school table top RPG thing. But only as long as getting it isn’t a grind. The OP appears to not have fun doing the content and wants the better gear as incentive to do content that’sn’t fun for him/her.And why I pose my questions.

Lutharr.1035:

In the end if they dont include more to do at 80 lots of people will abandon the game no matter what potential it has. If they introduce a ton of new content at a good pace then I think the whole gear treadmill could be avoided. But its weather Anet has the resources to keep up with the demand.

That’s part of their expectations as I said before. They don’t want everyone to play continuously. They want you to play and have fun playing it as much as you want to. Stop and do other stuff and come back when new content is out for you to have fun doing. Why would they need to constantly rush out content or introduce a gear grind to keep those people playing when those people can go do other stuff and come back to the game when new content is there for them to do? There is no doubt they will make loads of money. They already have with well over 2 million players and I’m willing to be nearly all of them are still playing and having just as much fun as they have been having the whole time.

castlemanic.3198:

That would actually be a great solution. Content isn’t gated because there is no prerequisite gear. the dungeons are available to everyone to enjoy, and different difficulties allows a progression that isn’t available anywhere else in game and also doesnt interfere with other people’s ability to play the dungeon either.

My friend, you’ve found the middle ground, a feat no one could have imagined.

I am inclined to agree as long as the increased difficulty isn’t exclusive to certain content. that’s to say people aren’t excluded from doing something because it is catering to that 1% (or 5% or whatever small percent) that want uber hard content. Thus each dungeon (or whatever) has tiers of difficulty as suggested. But there are two very vocal groups right now one for this and one against it as seen by the clocktower puzzle arguments during the halloween event. The rest in the middle appear to not care one way or the other. Also whatever improved reward is given for the higher tiers has to avoid being game breaking or unfair advantages to those few able to do it. I think given a well done demonstration of this would allow people like me to decide for sure if this is something that we would like to see or be ok with having in the game. As long as arenanet sticks to their design philosophy there is no reason why player ideas won’t continue to be added to the game. But the main driving decision for that’s enough people have to want it and not be something most don’t want. As seen in previous design decisions.

Jia Shen.4217:

I am inclined to agree as long as the increased difficulty isn’t exclusive to certain content. that’s to say people aren’t excluded from doing something because it is catering to that 1% (or 5% or whatever small percent) that want uber hard content. Thus each dungeon (or whatever) has tiers of difficulty as suggested. But there are two very vocal groups right now one for this and one against it as seen by the clocktower puzzle arguments during the halloween event. The rest in the middle appear to not care one way or the other. Also whatever improved reward is given for the higher tiers has to avoid being game breaking or unfair advantages to those few able to do it. I think given a well done demonstration of this would allow people like me to decide for sure if this is something that we would like to see or be ok with having in the game. As long as arenanet sticks to their design philosophy there is no reason why player ideas won’t continue to be added to the game. But the main driving decision for that’s enough people have to want it and not be something most don’t want. As seen in previous design decisions.

that’s exactly what his suggestion is supposed to do. Dungeon difficulties can be chosen before you walk into the dungeon. The dungeon would be the same for everyone, the only differences would be the difficulty of the enemies. The loot could be more greens than blues, or even a few rares if you’re doing it on highest difficulty. And people can still get rares using other methods and people can still enjoy dungeons without being hampered by elitists who only want to do max difficulty.

For the clocktower, im with the crowd that wants variable difficulties with appropriate rewards for each difficulty.

Jia Shen.4217:

I’m following the dicussion in full and like Kudzu.7569 I’m trying to understand the position for the gear progression and whatnot.

My position isn’t of a type of fun as you appear to have misunderstood me. I’m making a point and expecting answers to my legitimate questions. Is the content you (genric you) do in GW2 fun? If so then why do you need any new improved gear reward for doing something you have fun doing instead of what it already gives? If you’re not having fun doing the content then how does adding a new improved gear reward to that content all of a sudden make it fun? And if it doesn’t then why desire them to add a new improved gear reward to something you aren’t having fun doing so you have to do something you’re not having fun doing to get it?

Just because it does make it more fun for me and many others. There is no profound reason, no revelation, it just does. I like playing football or if your american soccer /spit), now winning a trophy shouldnt make me enjoy it anymore, but it does.

Jia Shen.4217:

There may be some that think that, I certainly don’t. What matters is arenanets mission for the game. How gear works is part of their philosophy and how it works now is because of that. Personally I will get whatever the best gear is because I like to have the best gear. It’s an old school table top RPG thing. But only as long as getting it isn’t a grind. The OP appears to not have fun doing the content and wants the better gear as incentive to do content that’sn’t fun for him/her. And why I pose my questions.

people get tired of doing the same things over and over unless there is a incentive to do them. Its as simple as that. Its not a case of just fun its a case of seen it done it got the t-shirt. Now if your working towards something while it may be an illusion in some peoples eyes its still very real. Motivation is one of the most powerful things a humna being can experiance no matter if its in a digital world or in RL. It drives people.

Jia Shen.4217:

That’s part of their expectations as I said before. They don’t want everyone to play continuously. They want you to play and have fun playing it as much as you want to. Stop and do other stuff and come back when new content is out for you to have fun doing. Why would they need to constantly rush out content or introduce a gear grind to keep those people playing when those people can go do other stuff and come back to the game when new content is there for them to do? There is no doubt they will make loads of money. They already have with well over 2 million players and I’m willing to be nearly all of them are still playing and having just as much fun as they have been having the whole time.

The 1st line in your statement is what annoys me the most. Not you personally cos your just repeating what Anet said. Why it bothers me is because its a blatant and odvious LIE. Anet while they may have gamers working on GW2, they may have gamers being their mouth piece as it helps when interacting with the gamers they are speaking to. But the fact of the matter is that they are a buisness. They dont want people to put down the game and come back later. people not playing the game dont by gems, they dont put money in their pocket, which as a buisness is beyond stupid. Its buisness suicide. Not only that but when people take “a break” from games. The chances of them returning dwindles more and more each day. So the chances of them buying an exp or whatever is in the cash shop wont happen either. Again goes against the reason they are in buisness.

If Anet was owned by some mad billionaire who is paying for GW2 no matter what then fair enough. But it isnt.

The games awesome. But once your level 80 for a while it starts to get stale. people dont return to games they left because it got stale (well most wont).

ANet knows best what kind of gamers buy the most gems, and considering the fact they made another game based on the “no endless grind” philosophy, it obviously pays out. I wouldn’t expect grinding players to pay for gems anyway as they’ll be able to spend gold instead.

Iruwen.3164:

ANet knows best what kind of gamers buy the most gems, and considering the fact they made another game based on the “no endless grind” philosophy, it obviously pays out. I wouldn’t expect grinding players to pay for gems anyway as they’ll be able to spend gold instead.

The best kind of gamers to buy gems certainly aint ones not playing it. And Gw2 is not Gw1. They are trying to increase their stake in the mmo market. And no one wants to turn gw2 into a mindless korean grindfest. But there is some middle ground (well to those that aint wrapped in just what they want only anyways).

castlemanic.3198

That would actually be a great solution. Content isn’t gated because there is no prerequisite gear. the dungeons are available to everyone to enjoy, and different difficulties allows a progression that isn’t available anywhere else in game and also doesnt interfere with other people’s ability to play the dungeon either.

My friend, you’ve found the middle ground, a feat no one could have imagined.

Thank you very much, I’m glad someone likes the idea! (Though I think I mostly just elaborated on Lutharr’s proposal, haha.) As someone else mentioned earlier, I would love to see at least a test run of this put into the game at some point so that players can get a feel for whether or not they’d enjoy it.

Do you have the Triforge Amulet?
Do you have a Lengendary weapon?
Gem slots filled?
Good accessories?
Your character look how you want it?

Lots of stuff you can be doing.

Kuari.8106:

Do you have the Triforge Amulet?
Do you have a Lengendary weapon?
Gem slots filled?
Good accessories?
Your character look how you want it?

Lots of stuff you can be doing.

No i dont have legendary because i dont want to farm for a weapon that dont gives me better stats and needs huge amount of material just a waste of time. Farming for a skin ridcolous.

No i dont need the triforge amulet because i have 3 sets of exo jew set that fits for my 3 different build.

Yes i have good accesories.

Yes my char looks how i want except my full glass cannon armor i have transmuted warden armor with cof armor crit dmg attribs. But i want arah but no one comes in arah because its too hard and not worth it. (You can get the armor in cof with the same stats and everyone knows cof is much more viable dungeon than arah and easier too. )

No i have big backpacks and dont need the +gemslots.

Any question???

gem slots meaning like the ones in your accessories, back slot, etc. Either way, its no more a waste of time than farming for better and better and better gear only to eventually top out. Enjoy the content for the sake of content because that’s what you’d have to do anyways.

Gear progression in other mmo’s is just a meaningless gating mechanic keeping people with less time to play behind. Consider this, if a new sword lets you do 5x times more damage but you fight monsters with 5x more health you haven’t made any progress and the only thing that changed was the arbitrary number assigned to your attacks.

Shinzan.2908:

Gear progression in other mmo’s is just a meaningless gating mechanic keeping people with less time to play behind. Consider this, if a new sword lets you do 5x times more damage but you fight monsters with 5x more health you haven’t made any progress and the only thing that changed was the arbitrary number assigned to your attacks.

People seem to like big numbers, no matter how pointless.

/e: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Break_Damage_Limit, I actually like it there too, but that’s different story

The problem is there is not worth to farm a out a legendary for a skin cause you dont do much more dmg and so much time to farm out. This game lacks the skill and class variety like GW 1. GW 1 is much more better than this i’d liked that game cause you can variete a lot of skills but here the chars are too limited and there is no mana for mages wtf?? No Magic defense and physical defense wtf? mages fight from power they can crit like a warrior wtf?? these are the problems with gw 2. There is no weapon enchanting like Lineage 2 that solves a lot of problem for Farmers if your enchant fail your armor destroyed if succes you get +hp and armor if you use on a weapon you can get more dmg if fail destroyed. ANd well done the farmers have progression and the pvp is nonsense. Everyone with the same lvl with same armor stats and etc why should i farm a full exo for WvW with full of bugs and etc??
Why they cant implement a bg like in wow where only 40vs40 or 10vs10 or 20vs20 with their farmed sett and skills????

Sorry for my poor english.