Guild Wars 2

Arena Net,

I’m very aware that you implemented the pve/pvp skill split later in Guilds Wars Life, that said, in my opinion it was the most brilliant fix to an issue which still plagues TONS of other MMORPG’s today.

So many MMO’s still try to balance skills & make them viable for both PVE & PVP play. The problem is while players behaviors change and they can adjust to different settings quickly(read PVP), most NPC’s in games do not change the way they play unless the game developer changes them. Working for hours to find a build that works in a particular PVE situation, then being blindsided by a change to a skill because that skill was over or under powered in PVP is not fun and is maddening at best. Perfectly good & cohesive PVE builds are already being ruined because you are changing skills in regards to PVP.

I know I can’t read the minds of the developers & there may have been great reasons to change some of the skills in PVE but trying to keep skills aligned for two completely different styles of play (ie… pvp & pve) is an exercise in player frustration every time you change them. Many games have for years now frustrated PVE only players by changing perfectly viable PVE builds because of PVP. You had the perfect solution in implementing the split in Guild Wars, please continue to use it.

For those who aren’t sure what I’m referring to about split skills here is an example . As you can see looking through the list of Elementalist skills from Guild Wars, some are marked as PVP. While both the PVE & PVP versions shared the same names, icons and animations, they function quite differently in PVP than they do in PVE. This allowed Arena Net to tweak the skills based on one style of play that would be vastly different from the other style of game play.

tldr: please consider bringing back split skills into your design, it’s frustrating to have a viable build broken for either pve or pvp because you needed to change a skill for either a pvp or pve only issue.

[edit]typo’s fixed & provided a link to an example of a split skill[/edit]

Why? I like how it is now. It feels more flexible and less restricted. Why would you want PvP abilities?

Easterlily.5836:

Why? I like how it is now. It feels more flexible and less restricted. Why would you want PvP abilities?

Did you play Guild Wars? The split skill system was the saving grace of pve. Take Aura of Restoration it had a pve & pvp version. The pve version would have been way overpowered in PvP and the pvp version would be worthless in pve. Splitting the skill allowed them to tweak it for each style of game play instead of trying to make the skill viable in both.

Pve & pvp are two completely different play styles. Humans can quickly react and adjust to a situation where as a.i. mobs will only change their play styles if game developers change them to do so. It makes sense to split them because they really are different games, at least in my opinion.

I would love to see separate PVP/PVE skills.

I agree on this
Was the best system, and was helping you game devolopers to do it in GW1 and was so much better, let’s not return to affect both sides cause of PvP

Agreed!

I’m honestly not sure why this wasn’t included on day one, considering it was not only successful in GW, but it was also very desired by the community.

It basically tosses PvE v. PvP balance tension right out the window.

I’m sure we would all love an official statement on why this was not added, and if it is ever going to be added or not.

Your idea is great and plausible and can create harmony within each realm of PvE and PvP. However, for the timing being, this would create more intuitive thinking into balancing it. From their point of view, they designed it as it is. From our point of view, we’re still taking it in despite how long we’ve been playing thus far. These skill changes that affect both side is easier to manage and control. Perhaps in the future as this game continues to take age, we’ll see some of the philosophy concept change.

I hope this never gets implemented.

I can’t believe anyone likes splitting PvP and PvE skills or mechanics…
It’s an easy way out that simply shows poor design philosophy.

Stop asking for things that make no sense, please…

Instead of splitting PvP and PvE skills, ANet needs to make PvP and PvE more similar so that it can be balanced under the same mechanics.

This is an excellent idea and has been used a few times very successfully. UO had caps in place for PvE and PvP. Damage inc could be 100% in PvE but was capped at something like 50% in PvP. It made balancing easier and PvP changes had little to no effect on PvE and vice versa.

And also like someone pointed out it worked well in GW1.

Nurvus.2891:

I hope this never gets implemented.

I can’t believe anyone likes splitting PvP and PvE skills or mechanics…
It’s an easy way out that simply shows poor design philosophy.

Stop asking for things that make no sense, please…

Instead of splitting PvP and PvE skills, ANet needs to make PvP and PvE more similar so that it can be balanced under the same mechanics.

It can never be more similar. AI can never truly replicate human split-second thinking or creativity. To suggest that they can is fantasy and to suggest that splitting pvp/pve is an easy way out is absurd.

GW2 absolutely needs PvE/PvP skill splits, just like ArenaNet said they were going to do when they were hyping us all up to buy the game. Just like they (eventually) realized they needed to do in GW1.

I find it very strange that after all the time they saw how well the split system worked in GW1 why they did’nt continue to use it in GW2. Pve and pvp are NOT similar and never will be. I think ths OP’s idea is a great one and am very supprised it was not there on day 1. Can we PLEASE have this. It will calm down both camps and prevent a lot of arguements that used to happend in gw1 after every pointless nerf to pve skills due to pvp

Nurvus.2891:

I hope this never gets implemented.

I can’t believe anyone likes splitting PvP and PvE skills or mechanics…
It’s an easy way out that simply shows poor design philosophy.

Stop asking for things that make no sense, please…

Instead of splitting PvP and PvE skills, ANet needs to make PvP and PvE more similar so that it can be balanced under the same mechanics.

PVE & PVP Playstyles will never be more similar than they are now. NPC A.I. can only be so intutive & smart, their behaviors don’t change unless a developer comes along & changes it. While Player Characters can change at will depending on how the player reacts to the situation.

Skill Splitting worked wonderfully in Guild Wars & I’m positive it would work just as well in Guild Wars 2

Nurvus.2891:

I hope this never gets implemented.

I can’t believe anyone likes splitting PvP and PvE skills or mechanics…
It’s an easy way out that simply shows poor design philosophy.

Stop asking for things that make no sense, please…

Instead of splitting PvP and PvE skills, ANet needs to make PvP and PvE more similar so that it can be balanced under the same mechanics.

I think some people have misunderstood what is being discussed here. It’s not like that ever happens on the internet, right? ;-)

We’re talking about the numbers here, not the mechanics. Amounts, durations — that sort of thing. Same skills, but two sets of associated numbers; one for PVE, one for PVP.

The reason this is brilliant and the reason other games do it is pretty straightforward. Let’s say you have a skill called Signet of Reading Comprehension. When you activate the skill it lasts for 4 seconds. Well in PVE, 4 seconds of Signet of Reading Comprehension might be perfect. But in PVP, 4 seconds of Signet of Reading Comprehension might be too much. It might not be fair and balanced, because after all PVE and PVP are inherently different by their very nature and can never be the same nor have the same balancing requirements when it comes to abilities and skills.

So to solve the problem, Signet of Reading Comprehension has not one but two durations; one that is used in PVE, and the other in PVP. This allows the developers to tune one without breaking the other.

TravisTrout.6803:

Nurvus.2891:

I hope this never gets implemented.

I can’t believe anyone likes splitting PvP and PvE skills or mechanics…
It’s an easy way out that simply shows poor design philosophy.

Stop asking for things that make no sense, please…

Instead of splitting PvP and PvE skills, ANet needs to make PvP and PvE more similar so that it can be balanced under the same mechanics.

I think some people have misunderstood what is being discussed here. It’s not like that ever happens on the internet, right? ;-)

We’re talking about the numbers here, not the mechanics. Amounts, durations — that sort of thing. Same skills, but two sets of associated numbers; one for PVE, one for PVP.

The reason this is brilliant and the reason other games do it is pretty straightforward. Let’s say you have a skill called Signet of Reading Comprehension. When you activate the skill it lasts for 4 seconds. Well in PVE, 4 seconds of Signet of Reading Comprehension might be perfect. But in PVP, 4 seconds of Signet of Reading Comprehension might be too much. It might not be fair and balanced, because after all PVE and PVP are inherently different by their very nature and can never be the same nor have the same balancing requirements when it comes to abilities and skills.

So to solve the problem, Signet of Reading Comprehension has not one but two durations; one that is used in PVE, and the other in PVP. This allows the developers to tune one without breaking the other.

Nice analogy, That’s exactly what I’m talking about in my OP. Skills which function slightly different based on the way you’re playing the game. It has been working brilliantly in Guild Wars for a while now and I can’t understand why they would try to move away from it in Guild Wars 2.

GrayGhost.6857:

This is an excellent idea and has been used a few times very successfully. UO had caps in place for PvE and PvP. Damage inc could be 100% in PvE but was capped at something like 50% in PvP. It made balancing easier and PvP changes had little to no effect on PvE and vice versa.

And also like someone pointed out it worked well in GW1.

That’s the point it cant they could either split skills pvp/pve or return everything back to scratch when it was perfect.
just by a quick glance you can see how bad these updates for example first they nerf 100b then warriors moan about its hard to kill other classes then they get defence nerf and its a everlasting loop they have to see things from all angles before making changes!

My $.02

I definitely think splitting how skills function in PvE modes and how they function in the PvP modes is a very good idea,
and something Anet’s Balance team should seriously consider making a priority

As mentioned already,
Historically in GW1 this change gave the Devs the ability to vastly
improve balance making skills that were initially
(and by necessity) worthless in one mode actually worthwhile in both.

Simply put I feel it’s unreasonable to expect a skill to be balanced, worthwhile, and fun to use in all of the vastly different game modes
because of the fundamental differences in the nature of how they have been designed.
While this might be especially visible in relation to AI vs player behavior,
it’s also noticeable in differences in objectives and restrictions, party sizes and structure of the maps.
Any and all of which can dramatically affect the balance of a skill.

Even if Anet decided to expand it out to the degree of
Open World PvE, Instanced PvE, WvW, and sPvP.
keeping all the skills balanced for each of these
individual play type would still be challenging.

But, with all respect to the skilled Devs at Anet on the Balancing team,
balancing the skills so they are good in all play modes as they are trying to do now,
is IMHO an effort in futility that will only result in many
otherwise good skills being relegated to use under specific circumstances
within one game mode if ever,
and large amounts of stagnation in build variety.

tbh you could easily make pve mobs act like players, just make them run away if you are stronger then they are, and dodge skills / run out of aoes.

Ofcourse wether that’s fun to play against or not is another discussion…

On topic, skills having a pve and pvp version is pretty required until pve is like pvp. CCP of EVE online are having a similar issue with pvp and pve setups being too drastically different too.

I’d just be happy if i could use all my skills underwater :/

The PvE/PvP split was the most amazing and innovative thing I’ve ever seen in an MMO. It boggles my mind that this game lacks this feature, which is supposed to be better than it’s predecessor. I really really really hope it will be added in the near future. It will be an immense fix to one of the many problems this game has. Time will tell I suppose. But, nonetheless, I approve of this! Bring back the split kitten

I agree with this as well. Plus, they don’t have to do it to all skills, just some skills that have too much potential on one side or the other. A few tweaks here and there would go a long way.

Many Pesky Monk.3140:

The PvE/PvP split was the most amazing and innovative thing I’ve ever seen in an MMO. It boggles my mind that this game lacks this feature, which is supposed to be better than it’s predecessor. I really really really hope it will be added in the near future. It will be an immense fix to one of the many problems this game has. Time will tell I suppose. But, nonetheless, I approve of this! Bring back the split kitten

I know I was blown away that they didn’t continue such a great system into GW2 when it worked so well in GW.

This thread needs to be bumped all the time, every minute, of every day. The Devs at Arena Net MUST do this so they don’t ruin the pve side of the game.

I personally only pvp with my clan, or when I get bored of doing pve. So if this game pve side is ruined I will probably quit this game. I LOVE this game. I would buy a second copy of Guild Wars 2 if it came out in single player. That’s how much I love it.

With the new nerf to Guardian I am afraid they will nerf all classes like that so pvp will maintain balance. ( Totally agree with the nerf to Guardian pvp side just not the pve issues)

Arena Net must do this so they don’t ruin my game-play experience during the game. (Or anyone elses who just enjoys the pve side of the game) I find it so unacceptable that they did this in GW1, but not GW2.

Strikerjolt.5910

So if this game pve side is ruined I will probably quit this game. I LOVE this game. I would buy a second copy of Guild Wars 2 if it came out in single player. That’s how much I love it.

Yeah I’m not a PVP person either, I really hate it when PVP changes ruin my pve.

I don’t think it’s feasible to balance the skills with the whole of the game in mind, they definitely need to segment it so that players get a better, more balanced, and less frustrating experience.

lothefallen.7081:

I don’t think it’s feasible to balance the skills with the whole of the game in mind, they definitely need to segment it so that players get a better, more balanced, and less frustrating experience.

Exactly my point

i disagree.

them skills are fine as they are now.

no need to split them into pvp or pve.

I have no issues with the 1 set of skills that works in PVP and PVE.

I play a mesmer.
I have a greatsword. I have a scepter, and a sword.
I ALSO have a staff, pistol and focus.
I swap out my weapons based around what I am doing to make best use of the various skills that those weapons offer.

I ALSO have all of my skills unlocked.
AND
I change then out depending on what I am doing and what the situation calls for.

The point is this:
There is no 1 build that works for every PVE situation.
If your doing DE’s you probably want to stack on lots of AOE and DPS skills.
If you running solo gathering resources you want speed and defensive buffs.
If your running a dungeon ( depending on what duengeon and boss your fighting ) want group boon/utility/healing/defensive skills.

Echo.7634:

I have no issues with the 1 set of skills that works in PVP and PVE.

I play a mesmer.
I have a greatsword. I have a scepter, and a sword.
I ALSO have a staff, pistol and focus.
I swap out my weapons based around what I am doing to make best use of the various skills that those weapons offer.

I ALSO have all of my skills unlocked.
AND
I change then out depending on what I am doing and what the situation calls for.

The point is this:
There is no 1 build that works for every PVE situation.
If your doing DE’s you probably want to stack on lots of AOE and DPS skills.
If you running solo gathering resources you want speed and defensive buffs.
If your running a dungeon ( depending on what duengeon and boss your fighting ) want group boon/utility/healing/defensive skills.

you’re right there is no one size fits all build, however there are builds optimized for various situations and when skills are changed to cater to a completely different play style it can ruin a once viable build.

It really boggles my mind why it isnt like that to begin with. It worked fine in GW1 so why not re-implement in GW2? I’m fairly sure players wont get “overwhelmed” by a slightly changed tooltip in a different game mode.

What i don’t understand is this – Anet wants pvp to be equal amongs players and that is why they did with the Mists and s/tPvP maps.And that is instant leveling to 80 and whole your gear becomes the best one.
What i mean is they went to such a degree to balance the PvP but mhm it’s like they’ve forgotten something.And that is to split pve and pvp.
It would be really great if we had 3 things and not only 2 like now.
1.Instant 80 (exists)
2.The best pvp gear (exists)
3.Split pve from pvp skill design (NOT EXISTING)
Come on really?How come Anet puts some things and totally forgets about the other half??

GW2 already has a split PvE/PvP skill system.

Don’t believe me? Take a look at signet of rage.

46 seconds of 60 in PvE, 30 of 60 in PvP.

GADefence.5634:

GW2 already has a split PvE/PvP skill system.

Don’t believe me? Take a look at signet of rage.

46 seconds of 60 in PvE, 30 of 60 in PvP.

The split needs to be across the board. Every skill. Even skills that currently seem “fine as they are”. They need to just split them now before it becomes more trouble later. And it will become more trouble later, just like it always does. The PVP metagame (sometimes even PvE meta when new content is introduced) is fluid, so things change and are discovered all the time, which will lead to ANet constantly balancing skills based on that. Changing skills for no reason at all is ridiculous, and when you play PvE but the skills are balanced for PvP, that’s exactly what they’re doing: Rebalancing PvE for no reason.

GW1 suffered from it, and they sounded like they were aware of this during all their hyping up for GW2. Yet now its hidden or not even there.

They’ll try and keep skills unsplit.

But if they ever find something that requires a change for one format that would heavily impact the other, I’m sure they will split them.

It’s just that such a thing rarely happens, and the wiki hardly ever notes it.

I agree there should be a split, for all the reasons above. Basically, PvE and PvP have fundamentally different tactics. PvE difficulty comes mainly from upscaling mob health, damage, and generally “broken” skills (ie overpowered – as in you would never give such skills to players).

PvP is about being on a equal (character ability-wise) playing field, and skills designed to deal with overpowered mobs are poorly designed for PvP.

I dunno, yes it worked in gw1 and would probably work here, but would cause headaches in the beginning I think mainly due to WvW being pvpve. NPCMobs getting particular damage/boons and players getting particular damage/boons would be nice though.

ehh.

I see no reason not to do this.. balancing for PvE and balancing for PvP are two VERY fundamentally different things. If you try to balance a single ability around both, you end up only doing one or none. This has been proven again and again and again.

For whatever it’s worth, /signed.

Really no reason why this shouldn’t have been in place out of the box, but, OK it wasn’t. It definitely needs to make a reappearance.

Too much about the first game was thrown out just because “that was the old game, we’re making a new game”. The first game did many, many things right (as does this one, to be fair).

/signed as well.
I think it is a necessity since the various modes of play are so different.
It makes no sense trying to balance skills across the board- but I’m not a developer and I don’t know what ArenaNet has in mind.
I just hope they don’t neglect the PvE players in favor of the PvP players.
As a condition /staff Mesmer I am a bit miffed so don’t mind me too much.

I really hope Anet reads this thread.
+1 from me

I completely agree that skills should have PvE and PvP versions. This would allow the devs to work on balancing pvp without harming the PvE experience

arjeidi.2690:

GADefence.5634:

GW2 already has a split PvE/PvP skill system.

Don’t believe me? Take a look at signet of rage.

46 seconds of 60 in PvE, 30 of 60 in PvP.

The split needs to be across the board. Every skill. Even skills that currently seem “fine as they are”. They need to just split them now before it becomes more trouble later. And it will become more trouble later, just like it always does. The PVP metagame (sometimes even PvE meta when new content is introduced) is fluid, so things change and are discovered all the time, which will lead to ANet constantly balancing skills based on that. Changing skills for no reason at all is ridiculous, and when you play PvE but the skills are balanced for PvP, that’s exactly what they’re doing: Rebalancing PvE for no reason.

GW1 suffered from it, and they sounded like they were aware of this during all their hyping up for GW2. Yet now its hidden or not even there.

Yeah I remember how annoying it was every time skills were changed because of PVP. It was such a pita to PVE players. I too am truly amazed they didn’t take that system & improve upon on it GW2. Trying to balance one skill for both play styles is just going to frustrate a lot of people.

This is a very good idea. It seems like when they nerf classes like Mesmer for solely PvP reasons then the class becomes worse in ways they did not intend. You barely see any Mesmers in dungeons nowadays because the class under performs in all things PvE when compared to other classes. This is an excellent solution.

arjeidi.2690

It can never be more similar. AI can never truly replicate human split-second thinking or creativity. To suggest that they can is fantasy and to suggest that splitting pvp/pve is an easy way out is absurd.

GW2 absolutely needs PvE/PvP skill splits, just like ArenaNet said they were going to do when they were hyping us all up to buy the game. Just like they (eventually) realized they needed to do in GW1.

It can be more similar if the fights are structured a little bit more similarly.
To do that, PvE needs to be less about “DPS” and a little more about small windows of opportunity to deal your full damage.

Creatures need to be given some defensive and control mechanics to make killing them less about just kiting and nuking or simply AoE’ing them down.
Bosses need to be less about phases or endless kiting and more about somewhat of a skirmish.

GW2 does not absolutely need split skills. It’s surely a sollution that works – but it’s the the worst one.

GW2 just needs to move their PvE encounters further away from WoW’s “DPS with a twist”.

I agree entirely with this. It’s hard enough to balance one game but what they’re trying now will never work out well.

Splitting PvE and PvP skills can also make PvE more interesting.

In PvE, the mob frequency and average mob lifespan weaken the usefulness of skills with long cooldowns and skills that focus on damage over time.

Mobs in PvE can do a lot more with conditions, if player’s condition removal skills’ cooldowns are reduced in PvE.

Mobs in PvE can do a lot more with crowd control, if player’s stability granting skills and stun breaker skills have lower cooldowns.

Mobs in PvE can get away with more defensive mobility options, if player’s crowd control skills have lower cooldowns.

There is so much that can be done.

Nurvus.2891:

arjeidi.2690

It can never be more similar. AI can never truly replicate human split-second thinking or creativity. To suggest that they can is fantasy and to suggest that splitting pvp/pve is an easy way out is absurd.

GW2 absolutely needs PvE/PvP skill splits, just like ArenaNet said they were going to do when they were hyping us all up to buy the game. Just like they (eventually) realized they needed to do in GW1.

It can be more similar if the fights are structured a little bit more similarly.

PvE needs to be less about “DPS” and a little more about small windows of opportunity to deal your full damage.

GW2 does not absolutely need split skills. It’s surely a sollution that works – but it’s the the worst one.

How is it the worst one? It provides a clear distinction and maintains the balances for each area. If you want PVE to have the exact same skills as PvP, then PVE should also contain fewer mobs (to simulate a more pvp-like environment) with those mobs having less ‘armor’/hp (to simulate a more pvp-like environment). Oh wait, that’d make PvE too easy? Yeah, it would. So PvE is made to be “tougher” in the sense that things are, theoretically, harder to kill not because of behavior, but through sheer numbers (massive hp requiring enormous amounts of sustained damage, for example). And the skills players use in that environment have to be able to do that. Except that can’t happen if skills are constantly being balanced based on an environment where targets consistently have less health and less armor.

30k damage will one shot a player. 30k isn’t a whole lot to some targets in pve. Yet you say the skill that does 30k is perfectly fine in both areas of the game.

What.

TravisTrout.6803

Let’s say you have a skill called Signet of Reading Comprehension. When you activate the skill it lasts for 4 seconds. Well in PVE, 4 seconds of Signet of Reading Comprehension might be perfect. But in PVP, 4 seconds of Signet of Reading Comprehension might be too much. It might not be fair and balanced, because after all PVE and PVP are inherently different by their very nature and can never be the same nor have the same balancing requirements when it comes to abilities and skills.

I underlined the part I think you have the wrong perspective about, and bolded the part that simply is a baseless statement.

PvE does not need “human minds” in order to follow the same structure as PvP.
PvE is different because the enemy creatures are balanced around “evade or die” mechanics, barely have any defenses, and have huge health pools meant to be worn down over time.

If you give creatures healing, condition removal and defensive abilities, but in turn reduce their health, in a way that makes players need to adopt similar habits to the ones used in PvP, you will see a greatly reduced disparity in the power/effectiveness of skills between PvP and PvE – they will feel alot more balanced.

arjeidi.2690

How is it the worst one? It provides a clear distinction and maintains the balances for each area.

The problem is providing a distinction.

Let me put it in a different way: Skills should be balanced around PvP, and PvE encounters should be given the necessary tools (defensive skills, healing, condition removal, boon removal, CC, etc) such that it becomes as close as possible to how PvP works.

As for the big boss skills that kill you in 1-2 shots, they can be compared to how a group of players focuses you down.

Is it easier to understand this way?

Again, I’m not saying the suggested in this thread doesn’t fix the problem. It does.
But creates a different problem – one that some players, like yourself, don’t mind; but others, like me, do.

However they fix it they need to fix it I just hope they fix it, because having builds changed when the reason for the change is due to a completely different play-style is really frustrating.

Totally agree with the OP. I was dismayed and surprised to find this wasn’t already the case in GW2 from the get-go.

I hope this happens, preferably before any PvE-breaking nerfs.

let me put this in perspective, my perspective anyway. i came in to mmos from fps. i played fps for years, my first three years in an mmorpg was in wow, and i pvpd there. then, i got entranced by the story. and the pve. and all the lore. then people started screaming about “balance,” and i watched this game i once loved destroy itself by trying to make everything fair, everything easy, and responding to the squeakiest wheels. we who chose to only pve watched our classes get destroyed, so that the pvpers could say “ok, NOW i can kill that class!”

i left wow a couple of years ago, and i haven’t looked back. played rift for a while, and they built and integrated a separate system for pvp/pve. this meant that my pve specs weren’t touched when they attempted to balance things for “fairness” in pvp. with the exception of the fact that rift was, like so many other mmorpgs, in the end only a grind fest, i loved that game. but i’m sick of the grind, so i came to gw2 after playing gw1 for a while to learn the lore of this world.

recently, not only was one of the useful runes for guardians changed to balance things for pvp, the developers decided to also change up the key layout of three of the skills i use, requiring me to reteach myself a key combo. no big, you say, you can retrain yourself. and you’re right, when you say that. i can. but now the question comes in, with the dread — what am i going to have to relearn, over the course of playing this game, in my pve world, so that pvpers can have their balance, and their fairness? how many times will the professions i’ve come to play with skill and love be changed, in order to balance pvp?

i’m already beginning to loath the idea of what may come, and the joy and exuberance i had for this game is dimming. i’ll stick with it, and i’ll hope for the best, but developers? you need to hear and understand — yes, we know, you want this game in esports. that’s cool, i get that. but i’m not a pvper. are you going to destroy this gift you’ve given me, or will you rise to the challenge, and implement a solution that worked wonders in your first game?

Isende.2607:

let me put this in perspective, my perspective anyway. i came in to mmos from fps. i played fps for years, my first three years in an mmorpg was in wow, and i pvpd there. then, i got entranced by the story. and the pve. and all the lore. then people started screaming about “balance,” and i watched this game i once loved destroy itself by trying to make everything fair, everything easy, and responding to the squeakiest wheels. we who chose to only pve watched our classes get destroyed, so that the pvpers could say “ok, NOW i can kill that class!”

i left wow a couple of years ago, and i haven’t looked back. played rift for a while, and they built and integrated a separate system for pvp/pve. this meant that my pve specs weren’t touched when they attempted to balance things for “fairness” in pvp. with the exception of the fact that rift was, like so many other mmorpgs, in the end only a grind fest, i loved that game. but i’m sick of the grind, so i came to gw2 after playing gw1 for a while to learn the lore of this world.

recently, not only was one of the useful runes for guardians changed to balance things for pvp, the developers decided to also change up the key layout of three of the skills i use, requiring me to reteach myself a key combo. no big, you say, you can retrain yourself. and you’re right, when you say that. i can. but now the question comes in, with the dread — what am i going to have to relearn, over the course of playing this game, in my pve world, so that pvpers can have their balance, and their fairness? how many times will the professions i’ve come to play with skill and love be changed, in order to balance pvp?

i’m already beginning to loath the idea of what may come, and the joy and exuberance i had for this game is dimming. i’ll stick with it, and i’ll hope for the best, but developers? you need to hear and understand — yes, we know, you want this game in esports. that’s cool, i get that. but i’m not a pvper. are you going to destroy this gift you’ve given me, or will you rise to the challenge, and implement a solution that worked wonders in your first game?

Exactly what i was thinking.
When such a system is working and is good it should be in game.
GW2 shouldn’t suffer only because the balance for PvP and PvE requires different things.That is why we need PvP and PvE to be split appart.