Increasing trading post tax.
Yep, I’ve already explained in this thread or another why I gave up on the ubercool awesome gear chase.
The problem has been tossed around since launch, and it’s a matter of dream vs. reality. The concept of the game is casual friendly, always evolving and growing environment to explore. The reality is that a portion of the player base is obsessed with shinies and finding the path of least resistance to those shinies. These players ignore everything else in the game except for: loot and prestige.
Prestige comes from showing off your collection of rare skins, which come from collecting loot. Anything but the most rare items are worthless, they are just stepping stones to get to the good stuff. The only activities worth doing are those that give you the best loot, which is the fastest route to the rare items that give you the most prestige.
The stories, the landscapes, role-playing, having fun – none of these matter because they don’t translate into loot or prestige.
I just choose not to play that game. The game was designed for me, but taken over by them.
Kasmeer’s staff. Rox’s Quiver.
Skins =/= the game.
We are not having the same conversation here. You don’t have to spend a penny on the game beyond the starter cost of the account.
Well… I would argue that for GW2, Skins = endgame goals. How else do you evolve your character? You’ve unlocked all skills, have the best gear, to make it look good is all that remains.
That’s your choice. I’ve put together great looks with 25s worth of blue gear and dyes from the TP.
My fun =/= your fun.
I’d also note the achievement system is fun for many and there are several that are pretty expensive, even outside of using the TP. (minis, wardrobe, etc.) While they aren’t in the majority of achievements, they are quite costly.
Rewarding gameplay comes in several sizes, for sure. I know plenty of people that only play WvW during most of their free time and it’s not because the earning potential is so much better (wvw siege alone isn’t cheap). But, i think goals in general are very heavily weighted on gold. Worth is heavily weighted on gold, it’s pretty much something anet really needs to keep an eye on, maybe modify the ways earning gold and achieving “things” keeps people feeling rewarded. The TP needs toned down, the balance of rewards needs more ways to earn them and so on.
[TAO] Founder/Owner and Administrator for the NSP Server Website
Giving out ticket scraps for dungeons would hurt Anets income from key sales.
No it wouldnt. Keyfarming alone hurts Anet’s key sales far more.
Giving out ticket scraps for dungeons would hurt Anets income from key sales.
No it wouldnt. Keyfarming alone hurts Anet’s key sales far more.
On that note, why would anyone BUY keys? It’s such miserable value… full of crap useless one-shot items and slim chance at something useful. Lottery tickets basically.
I think key farmers might actually contribute instead of hurt it the sales :-) Maybe if you’re missing a key or two and don;t feel like farming anymore you’ll just go and buy it?
~10-20g on the low side for 1 or 2 keys. 20-60 minutes to “farm” 1 or 2 keys. Keyfarming is usually more time efficient.
I would love to get a few pointers on how to make that much, if you can… or perhaps just redirect me so that we don’t spam the thread. Really. Dungeons are unstable due to PUGs and even if you run within 30 minutes it’s hardly gonna be more than 4g an hour bonus gold included.
Open world bosses spawn every 15 minutes now and I usually end up with one or two rares worth 60s total and a bunch of 1-5s trash. So again that’s close to 4g an hour…
Oh and I have only 64% MF despite basically salvaging everything blue and green since hitting 80… :- /
If you can’t do dungeons effectively (and by that I mean speed run or solo sell them) and have poor MF then you are going to be limited in terms of gains, still 6-7g+ an hour via open world pve is more than viable.
As for “pointers”:
Work out which mobs drop T5/T6 (or other in demand craft mats/bags).
Find a location which contains said mobs in high density and with a decent respawn rate.
Find several locations which suit the criteria above.
Farm and hop between them to avoid or otherwise limit DR hits as much as possible.
Profit.
I can pull in 60+ T5 and 12+ T6 per hour. When you factor in upgrading the T5 to T6 via the MF, from T6 alone I can gain over 7G an hour. Again that is without factoring in any other drops.
Now in the last 10 minutes whilst waiting for some orders to fill I got 17 T5 and 3 T6 as well as other drops (crud drops this time around in fairness, all greens or worse).
Regardless, even at the 4G an hour rate you mentioned, that is more than enough to do what I initially said. Either set aside a few hours to make the money you want for that shiny skin you want, or set a small portion of each hour aside for it. If you do that, you get your skin. The trouble is instead people don’t bother and just qq.
I’m getting at this – I would like a way to obtain more gear in ways other than just harvesting gold, similar to dungeon gear. Simple as that. EDIT Also don’t cling to details – I’m sure they would have no problem making it so that skins obtained via special “dungeon claim tickets” are account-bound or something like that, that’s not really an issue ;-)
By the way, how many chest do you open to get a ticket, since you do it often if I understand correctly?
This would be a 180-degree-turn from the direction Anet has been going since launch. As in, don’t hold your breath. If they wanted to do that they would have developed the dungeon and karma merchants a lot more.
I don’t do it a lot, only when I’m bored, and I’ve been playing other games the last few months while waiting for the big update and LS 2: the Revenge of Scarlet.
Average is probably a scrap every 3-4 chests and a ticket every 10-12. I’ve pulled maybe 2 full tickets and 50 scraps. Someone really dedicated to this and who doesn’t have a day job could probably do three runs an hour and get that every other day.
you were pretty lucky with those tickets.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Guy-opened-500-Black-Lion-Chests
the tickets are closer too 1/100
the scraps are about 1/5th
10 scraps in one ticket.
So your looking at 50 chests on average to get 1 ticket or 100 chests for 3 tickets on average
I’m getting at this – I would like a way to obtain more gear in ways other than just harvesting gold, similar to dungeon gear. Simple as that. EDIT Also don’t cling to details – I’m sure they would have no problem making it so that skins obtained via special “dungeon claim tickets” are account-bound or something like that, that’s not really an issue ;-)
By the way, how many chest do you open to get a ticket, since you do it often if I understand correctly?
This would be a 180-degree-turn from the direction Anet has been going since launch. As in, don’t hold your breath. If they wanted to do that they would have developed the dungeon and karma merchants a lot more.
I don’t do it a lot, only when I’m bored, and I’ve been playing other games the last few months while waiting for the big update and LS 2: the Revenge of Scarlet.
Average is probably a scrap every 3-4 chests and a ticket every 10-12. I’ve pulled maybe 2 full tickets and 50 scraps. Someone really dedicated to this and who doesn’t have a day job could probably do three runs an hour and get that every other day.
you were pretty lucky with those tickets.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Guy-opened-500-Black-Lion-Chests
the tickets are closer too 1/100
the scraps are about 1/5th10 scraps in one ticket.
So your looking at 50 chests on average to get 1 ticket or 100 chests for 3 tickets on average
Are you sure? Because Tolunart statistic is always right.
I don’t know why the topic keep going. It doesn’t matter what the argument is, they’ll just call you the minority anyway.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
Why is the TP which is not something the game was marketed for, or promoted for, the main means of achieving endgame goals?
And why is item obtaining designed around TP merchant playstyles and earning.
I’d really like a comment on these questions from John Smith or an actual gameplay dev seeing as how it relates to gameplay. Similar comments have been brought up many times in the past without any comment.
He actually commented many times on these subjects, here is one of them:
That doesn’t deal with the issue of game rewards being structured around the TP rather than skilled gameplay. Plus his comments on the TP would only fit if this was a sandbox game without the constant supply side shocks that anet administer.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
I would love to get a few pointers on how to make that much, if you can… or perhaps just redirect me so that we don’t spam the thread. Really. Dungeons are unstable due to PUGs and even if you run within 30 minutes it’s hardly gonna be more than 4g an hour bonus gold included.
Open world bosses spawn every 15 minutes now and I usually end up with one or two rares worth 60s total and a bunch of 1-5s trash. So again that’s close to 4g an hour…
Oh and I have only 64% MF despite basically salvaging everything blue and green since hitting 80… :- /If you can’t do dungeons effectively (and by that I mean speed run or solo sell them) and have poor MF then you are going to be limited in terms of gains, still 6-7g+ an hour via open world pve is more than viable.
As for “pointers”:
Work out which mobs drop T5/T6 (or other in demand craft mats/bags).
Find a location which contains said mobs in high density and with a decent respawn rate.
Find several locations which suit the criteria above.
Farm and hop between them to avoid or otherwise limit DR hits as much as possible.
Profit.I can pull in 60+ T5 and 12+ T6 per hour. When you factor in upgrading the T5 to T6 via the MF, from T6 alone I can gain over 7G an hour. Again that is without factoring in any other drops.
Now in the last 10 minutes whilst waiting for some orders to fill I got 17 T5 and 3 T6 as well as other drops (crud drops this time around in fairness, all greens or worse).
Regardless, even at the 4G an hour rate you mentioned, that is more than enough to do what I initially said. Either set aside a few hours to make the money you want for that shiny skin you want, or set a small portion of each hour aside for it. If you do that, you get your skin. The trouble is instead people don’t bother and just qq.
and this is really the point, playing GW2 at a high level comes down to merchanting to succeed. Its not bad that this is an option, its bad that this is the best option, by far.
In my experience other games tend to reward a bunch of different types of players
the hunters/luck based (usually have rare enemies/circumstances with special drops they roll on. Rare chests and such would also fit into this type
the merchanters
the grinders
the guild players (content that isnt super hard, but requires a dedicated guild/group)
crafters (in this game this becomes merchanters, because crafting is the norm and expected)
highly skilled players.
The fact that desired items and wealth are attainable by more controlled circumstances/people mitigates the effectiveness of middlemanning. IE the guy who makes his money hunting is going to try to get the best price whereas the guy who randomly picks up an item without trying is going to have no idea and just get whatever the lowest bid says.
In gw2, some of these types dont exist, and all of them are heavily regulated except for TP merchanting.
Giving out ticket scraps for dungeons would hurt Anets income from key sales.
No it wouldnt. Keyfarming alone hurts Anet’s key sales far more.
not really sure about this, my feeling is no one would really buy keys to get the items. at a rate of 3 tickets out of 100 keys, its not going to be worth the investment. better off just buying gold with gems than flushing it down the trader toilet. The value of the skins would of course go up, but i doubt the sales of black lion would go up much.
<snip>
You can make more than enough via:
“Skill” in terms of dungeons.
“Farming” in terms of open word farming.
“Merchanting” in terms of the TP.
Or via a combination of the above.
The options are there, some people are simply refusing to use them and then crying about how they don’t have enough gold for extreme value vanity items which are not actually needed.
Now “merchanting” can indeed make you more, but there are quite obvious reasons as to why that is the case (as has been pointed out time and again). But the other options still allow for potentially massive returns (again, as has been pointed out time and again).
(edited by Fenrir.3609)
Why is the TP which is not something the game was marketed for, or promoted for, the main means of achieving endgame goals?
And why is item obtaining designed around TP merchant playstyles and earning.
I’d really like a comment on these questions from John Smith or an actual gameplay dev seeing as how it relates to gameplay. Similar comments have been brought up many times in the past without any comment.
He actually commented many times on these subjects, here is one of them:
That doesn’t deal with the issue of game rewards being structured around the TP rather than skilled gameplay. Plus his comments on the TP would only fit if this was a sandbox game without the constant supply side shocks that anet administer.
They arent. The fact you perceive it to be is the problem. Items dont just magically appear on the trade post.
<snip>
You can make more than enough via:
“Skill” in terms of dungeons.
“Farming” in terms of open word farming.
“Merchanting” in terms of the TP.
Or via a combination of the above.The options are there, some people are simply refusing to use them and then crying about how they don’t have enough gold for extreme value vanity items which are not actually needed.
Dunegon earning is capped
farming is capped
Tp earning is uncapped
meaning even between your 3 best ways to obtain money, TP is the best way to do it. In this game money = endgame, so its also the best way to endgame.
notice dungeon rewards have been tweaked, fast ways to do dungeons have been eliminated – this is very much a controlled market
farming has DR, it has monsters that drop no loot, it has rebalanced champion bags, its highly regulated and limited in profit
But TP? Tp you can make as much as you can figure out how to make (to a limit, but its so much larger than other markets its crazy) that limit also goes up with inflation.
Also i would like them to expand on the dungeon skill options. Speed runs is one method, but they should also add things like hardmodes, bonus goals, hidden mobs/events etc, full clears. But see, that would only work if they could make it rewarding to spend extra time playing/succeeding at the game. If they did add these things but made them give something thats supposed to be TP based, they would have to make it grindy or worthless in comparison to other farm methods, thus making them unappealing.
Also, for those that dont think the tradepost is regulated like other areas of the game, I’ve got to say, it’s a laughable argument. Every time other activities in the game are “regulated” (world boss schedules, harvest nodes, etc), it subsequently regulates the TP by regulating the items on it. Regulating the trade post itself is unnecessary if all you need to do is control the influx of supply and introduce reasons to increase demand.
Dunegon earning is capped
farming is capped
Tp earning is uncapped
Capped per character.
Capped per area AND character.
Capped by your ability to understand the market and the amount of money you have.
<snip>
You can make more than enough via:
“Skill” in terms of dungeons.
“Farming” in terms of open word farming.
“Merchanting” in terms of the TP.
Or via a combination of the above.The options are there, some people are simply refusing to use them and then crying about how they don’t have enough gold for extreme value vanity items which are not actually needed.
Dunegon earning is capped
farming is capped
Tp earning is uncappedmeaning even between your 3 best ways to obtain money, TP is the best way to do it. In this game money = endgame, so its also the best way to endgame.
notice dungeon rewards have been tweaked, fast ways to do dungeons have been eliminated – this is very much a controlled market
farming has DR, it has monsters that drop no loot, it has rebalanced champion bags, its highly regulated and limited in profit
But TP? Tp you can make as much as you can figure out how to make (to a limit, but its so much larger than other markets its crazy) that limit also goes up with inflation.
Also i would like them to expand on the dungeon skill options. Speed runs is one method, but they should also add things like hardmodes, bonus goals, hidden mobs/events etc, full clears. But see, that would only work if they could make it rewarding to spend extra time playing/succeeding at the game. If they did add these things but made them give something thats supposed to be TP based, they would have to make it grindy or worthless in comparison to other farm methods, thus making them unappealing.
Yeah, lets nerf rewards on the tp, the only activity that DOESN´T create rewards.
That will surely level things out.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Why is the TP which is not something the game was marketed for, or promoted for, the main means of achieving endgame goals?
And why is item obtaining designed around TP merchant playstyles and earning.
I’d really like a comment on these questions from John Smith or an actual gameplay dev seeing as how it relates to gameplay. Similar comments have been brought up many times in the past without any comment.
He actually commented many times on these subjects, here is one of them:
That doesn’t deal with the issue of game rewards being structured around the TP rather than skilled gameplay. Plus his comments on the TP would only fit if this was a sandbox game without the constant supply side shocks that anet administer.
They arent. The fact you perceive it to be is the problem. Items dont just magically appear on the trade post.
actually they very often do randomly appear on the trading post. The difference between targeted farming and undirected farming is minimal. this is one of the big tp/rewards design issues.
The far majority of items for sale just magically appeared in a players inventory without any intent. They have no idea what its worth, and no vested interest in maintaining its value. In fact every item is of a negative value, because its using inventory space.
SO what you get is that the vast majority of items have a negative value to most of the people who get them, And a positive value to those in the know. The tp players purpose is to divest the people of these items as fast/cheap as possible, and sell it to the people who want the items for as much as possible. Sometimes the merchant also processes the goods, so he is making up for a lack of knowledge, or resources to achieve the conversion (gambling for specific drops requires starting capital) but thats usually not even the easiest/steady profit
Capped per character.
Capped per area AND character.
Capped by your ability to understand the market and the amount of money you have.
There we go, that’s the worst offender of them all :-) It’s called snowballing and has its place in competitive games. But simply being a player of this game does not mean you must compete with anyone.
Capped per character.
Capped per area AND character.
Capped by your ability to understand the market and the amount of money you have.There we go, that’s the worst offender of them all :-) It’s called snowballing and has its place in competitive games. But simply being a player of this game does not mean you must compete with anyone.
It also invalidates a lot of arguments. Got no gold? DONT BLAME THE TRADE POST. Blame yourself for not doing the activities that literally hand you gold for completing them. Dungeons you run for money until you run out of characters. Farming you do until you get bored of it. “Playing” the tradepost you do during everything else because it’s as simple as listing an item with a sell order instead of an instant-sell.
The thing is you dont’ even need to spend much time on the TP to earn money.
So even if you are a dungeoneer or farmer, why not just spend 1% of the time to invest in something.
That’s what I did. And the pay off is great. So if TP is an easy way to earn money, why not embrace it.
<snip>
You can make more than enough via:
“Skill” in terms of dungeons.
“Farming” in terms of open word farming.
“Merchanting” in terms of the TP.
Or via a combination of the above.The options are there, some people are simply refusing to use them and then crying about how they don’t have enough gold for extreme value vanity items which are not actually needed.
Dunegon earning is capped
farming is capped
Tp earning is uncappedmeaning even between your 3 best ways to obtain money, TP is the best way to do it. In this game money = endgame, so its also the best way to endgame.
notice dungeon rewards have been tweaked, fast ways to do dungeons have been eliminated – this is very much a controlled market
farming has DR, it has monsters that drop no loot, it has rebalanced champion bags, its highly regulated and limited in profit
But TP? Tp you can make as much as you can figure out how to make (to a limit, but its so much larger than other markets its crazy) that limit also goes up with inflation.
Also i would like them to expand on the dungeon skill options. Speed runs is one method, but they should also add things like hardmodes, bonus goals, hidden mobs/events etc, full clears. But see, that would only work if they could make it rewarding to spend extra time playing/succeeding at the game. If they did add these things but made them give something thats supposed to be TP based, they would have to make it grindy or worthless in comparison to other farm methods, thus making them unappealing.
Yeah, lets nerf rewards on the tp, the only activity that DOESN´T create rewards.
That will surely level things out.
you are thinking of mechanics of the economy instead of gameplay.
You may have to nerf gameplay for the economy, but you may have to nerf TP just for gameplay purposes.
That said i wouldnt directly nerf the TP(to be honest you will never get a situation where people focused on earning gold will not get more gold than people not focused on earning gold), i would improve gameplay in a ways that dont necessarily increase reward, or dont directly add to the economy machine.
- not increase reward- targeted farming reduce rng on items
- add non TP based rewards- self earned account bound items tied to progress, like accountbound ascended(leather deldrimor etc) or even gems for achievements more often. More gameplay related endgame progression tracks.
The key is to make it so that people can feel like they are progressing at a decent rate via other modes of gameplay, preferably ones the designers feel highlight the strengths of their game.
Why is the TP which is not something the game was marketed for, or promoted for, the main means of achieving endgame goals?
And why is item obtaining designed around TP merchant playstyles and earning.
I’d really like a comment on these questions from John Smith or an actual gameplay dev seeing as how it relates to gameplay. Similar comments have been brought up many times in the past without any comment.
He actually commented many times on these subjects, here is one of them:
That doesn’t deal with the issue of game rewards being structured around the TP rather than skilled gameplay. Plus his comments on the TP would only fit if this was a sandbox game without the constant supply side shocks that anet administer.
They arent. The fact you perceive it to be is the problem. Items dont just magically appear on the trade post.
actually they very often do randomly appear on the trading post. The difference between targeted farming and undirected farming is minimal. this is one of the big tp/rewards design issues.
The far majority of items for sale just magically appeared in a players inventory without any intent. They have no idea what its worth, and no vested interest in maintaining its value. In fact every item is of a negative value, because its using inventory space.
SO what you get is that the vast majority of items have a negative value to most of the people who get them, And a positive value to those in the know. The tp players purpose is to divest the people of these items as fast/cheap as possible, and sell it to the people who want the items for as much as possible. Sometimes the merchant also processes the goods, so he is making up for a lack of knowledge, or resources to achieve the conversion (gambling for specific drops requires starting capital) but thats usually not even the easiest/steady profit
So you are basically arguing that players just put a false value on their items. The reward structure is fine and players would earn far more gold, if they would put the same value on their items as the trader.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
The key is to make it so that people can feel like they are progressing at a decent rate via other modes of gameplay, preferably ones the designers feel highlight the strengths of their game.
Why dont’ those people just spend 1% of their time to invest in something on the trading post?
I dont’ spend much time on the TP. And I progress fine.
The thing is you dont’ even need to spend much time on the TP to earn money.
So even if you are a dungeoneer or farmer, why not just spend 1% of the time to invest in something.
That’s what I did. And the pay off is great. So if TP is an easy way to earn money, why not embrace it.
its easy for you, not for everybody. Many people dont want to even think about spending time researching every way to obtain an item and the current values of the other means of obtaining them. And i think its unreasonable to expect them to do that to succeed/progress at endgame activities in an adventure based mmo.
Its not bad as an option, but its not good as the best option.
<snip>
You can make more than enough via:
“Skill” in terms of dungeons.
“Farming” in terms of open word farming.
“Merchanting” in terms of the TP.
Or via a combination of the above.The options are there, some people are simply refusing to use them and then crying about how they don’t have enough gold for extreme value vanity items which are not actually needed.
Dunegon earning is capped
farming is capped
Tp earning is uncappedmeaning even between your 3 best ways to obtain money, TP is the best way to do it. In this game money = endgame, so its also the best way to endgame.
notice dungeon rewards have been tweaked, fast ways to do dungeons have been eliminated – this is very much a controlled market
farming has DR, it has monsters that drop no loot, it has rebalanced champion bags, its highly regulated and limited in profit
But TP? Tp you can make as much as you can figure out how to make (to a limit, but its so much larger than other markets its crazy) that limit also goes up with inflation.
Also i would like them to expand on the dungeon skill options. Speed runs is one method, but they should also add things like hardmodes, bonus goals, hidden mobs/events etc, full clears. But see, that would only work if they could make it rewarding to spend extra time playing/succeeding at the game. If they did add these things but made them give something thats supposed to be TP based, they would have to make it grindy or worthless in comparison to other farm methods, thus making them unappealing.
Yeah, lets nerf rewards on the tp, the only activity that DOESN´T create rewards.
That will surely level things out.you are thinking of mechanics of the economy instead of gameplay.
You may have to nerf gameplay for the economy, but you may have to nerf TP just for gameplay purposes.
That said i wouldnt directly nerf the TP(to be honest you will never get a situation where people focused on earning gold will not get more gold than people not focused on earning gold), i would improve gameplay in a ways that dont necessarily increase reward, or dont directly add to the economy machine.
- not increase reward- targeted farming reduce rng on items
- add non TP based rewards- self earned account bound items tied to progress, like accountbound ascended(leather deldrimor etc) or even gems for achievements more often. More gameplay related endgame progression tracks.
The key is to make it so that people can feel like they are progressing at a decent rate via other modes of gameplay, preferably ones the designers feel highlight the strengths of their game.
Thats all fine and i agree with you that it would be a good thing to add more reward tracks in the game.
But its completely off topic, unless you would also like reward tracks to be added to the trading post.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
The key is to make it so that people can feel like they are progressing at a decent rate via other modes of gameplay, preferably ones the designers feel highlight the strengths of their game.
Why dont’ those people just spend 1% of their time to invest in something on the trading post?
I dont’ spend much time on the TP. And I progress fine.
How does 1% of the time help anything? Just selling stuff from two successive dungeon runs at 1 copper less than current offer took me about 15 minutes for 30 items, in large part due to the slow responsiveness of the platform that BLTC is built upon. Wait 1-3 seconds for each change of page, seriously?
And 15 minutes is not 1% of my time, it is closer to 10% of the time spent playing a day… I don’t see what I could do in a few minutes on the TP that would be so profitable.
The key is to make it so that people can feel like they are progressing at a decent rate via other modes of gameplay, preferably ones the designers feel highlight the strengths of their game.
Why dont’ those people just spend 1% of their time to invest in something on the trading post?
I dont’ spend much time on the TP. And I progress fine.
How does 1% of the time help anything? Just selling stuff from two successive dungeon runs at 1 copper less than current offer took me about 15 minutes for 30 items, in large part due to the slow responsiveness of the platform that BLTC is built upon. Wait 1-3 seconds for each change of page, seriously?
And 15 minutes is not 1% of my time, it is closer to 10% of the time spent playing a day… I don’t see what I could do in a few minutes on the TP that would be so profitable.
Just buy those limited edition event item. It’s not rocket science.
Sure you might get screwed from over hyping and price plumet but eventually they’ll always go back up.
Or anticipate on future release when there is going to be an increase demand on certain item. For example ascended weapon or armor. And buy the material needed for those item.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
Why is the TP which is not something the game was marketed for, or promoted for, the main means of achieving endgame goals?
And why is item obtaining designed around TP merchant playstyles and earning.
I’d really like a comment on these questions from John Smith or an actual gameplay dev seeing as how it relates to gameplay. Similar comments have been brought up many times in the past without any comment.
He actually commented many times on these subjects, here is one of them:
That doesn’t deal with the issue of game rewards being structured around the TP rather than skilled gameplay. Plus his comments on the TP would only fit if this was a sandbox game without the constant supply side shocks that anet administer.
They arent. The fact you perceive it to be is the problem. Items dont just magically appear on the trade post.
actually they very often do randomly appear on the trading post. The difference between targeted farming and undirected farming is minimal. this is one of the big tp/rewards design issues.
The far majority of items for sale just magically appeared in a players inventory without any intent. They have no idea what its worth, and no vested interest in maintaining its value. In fact every item is of a negative value, because its using inventory space.
SO what you get is that the vast majority of items have a negative value to most of the people who get them, And a positive value to those in the know. The tp players purpose is to divest the people of these items as fast/cheap as possible, and sell it to the people who want the items for as much as possible. Sometimes the merchant also processes the goods, so he is making up for a lack of knowledge, or resources to achieve the conversion (gambling for specific drops requires starting capital) but thats usually not even the easiest/steady profit
So you are basically arguing that players just put a false value on their items. The reward structure is fine and players would earn far more gold, if they would put the same value on their items as the trader.
the trader is either a guy who just looks at trends and buys low, and sells high, or he is a guy who know what other items become, and at what rates. Neither is a skill that comes naturally to many people. Many people dont even like basic math and information based reading. Which is fine, BUT everyone is forced to market here. They cant obtain much by themselves without a much greater time investment. JS is counting on the invisible hand to guide pricing and give everyone a fair price, but the method is fed by the merchant class. They take a cut of every transaction, which makes their wealth non linear, which sets them as a different class of player.
As many people have said in this thread, you cant beat the merchant class, you can only join them. So as i have said, the only way to succeed at a decent rate is to become a merchant.
People are fine early on, until they hit the endgame, and the goals become high demand items, then it becomes a game of gold wars.
The key is to make it so that people can feel like they are progressing at a decent rate via other modes of gameplay, preferably ones the designers feel highlight the strengths of their game.
Why dont’ those people just spend 1% of their time to invest in something on the trading post?
I dont’ spend much time on the TP. And I progress fine.
How does 1% of the time help anything? Just selling stuff from two successive dungeon runs at 1 copper less than current offer took me about 15 minutes for 30 items, in large part due to the slow responsiveness of the platform that BLTC is built upon. Wait 1-3 seconds for each change of page, seriously?
And 15 minutes is not 1% of my time, it is closer to 10% of the time spent playing a day… I don’t see what I could do in a few minutes on the TP that would be so profitable.
You just made a good argument for the fact that profits on the tp actually are capped and not only by the amount of gold some can invest.
It takes time to monitor buy orders and markets, flood control when selling items slows you down etc. In the end it doesnt matter much, if you just use 200g to trade with or 20k gold. There is a limit of items you can handle simultaneously and once you neglect to monitor your investments and buy orders the risk of actually making less profit or a loss becomes higher.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Just buy those limited edition event item. It’s not rocket science.
Sure you might get screwed from over hyping and price plumet but eventually they’ll always go back up.
You’re talking about stuff that happens only a few times per year and there isn’t a guarantee of:
1) the price rising much / having enough of them to actually profit
2) even getting the item in the first place, they are often expensive
Take the silly scimitar for example – it already started out at 60 or so gold. And it spiked a lot THREE MONTHS later.
Then you have Chiroptophobia, that started out also at 60some and toady is a little over 70…
So, to profit from that well enough, you not only have to already have tens or hundreds of gold in the fist place, you also need to be lucky and choose the right item and live with the fact that you might not see your money in months…
Its not bad as an option, but its not good as the best option.
I have yet to see someone comment on this point, even though it is probably the most important of the discussion…
(edited by Borghal.1635)
<snip>
You can make more than enough via:
“Skill” in terms of dungeons.
“Farming” in terms of open word farming.
“Merchanting” in terms of the TP.
Or via a combination of the above.The options are there, some people are simply refusing to use them and then crying about how they don’t have enough gold for extreme value vanity items which are not actually needed.
Dunegon earning is capped
farming is capped
Tp earning is uncappedmeaning even between your 3 best ways to obtain money, TP is the best way to do it. In this game money = endgame, so its also the best way to endgame.
notice dungeon rewards have been tweaked, fast ways to do dungeons have been eliminated – this is very much a controlled market
farming has DR, it has monsters that drop no loot, it has rebalanced champion bags, its highly regulated and limited in profit
But TP? Tp you can make as much as you can figure out how to make (to a limit, but its so much larger than other markets its crazy) that limit also goes up with inflation.
Also i would like them to expand on the dungeon skill options. Speed runs is one method, but they should also add things like hardmodes, bonus goals, hidden mobs/events etc, full clears. But see, that would only work if they could make it rewarding to spend extra time playing/succeeding at the game. If they did add these things but made them give something thats supposed to be TP based, they would have to make it grindy or worthless in comparison to other farm methods, thus making them unappealing.
Yeah, lets nerf rewards on the tp, the only activity that DOESN´T create rewards.
That will surely level things out.you are thinking of mechanics of the economy instead of gameplay.
You may have to nerf gameplay for the economy, but you may have to nerf TP just for gameplay purposes.
That said i wouldnt directly nerf the TP(to be honest you will never get a situation where people focused on earning gold will not get more gold than people not focused on earning gold), i would improve gameplay in a ways that dont necessarily increase reward, or dont directly add to the economy machine.
- not increase reward- targeted farming reduce rng on items
- add non TP based rewards- self earned account bound items tied to progress, like accountbound ascended(leather deldrimor etc) or even gems for achievements more often. More gameplay related endgame progression tracks.
The key is to make it so that people can feel like they are progressing at a decent rate via other modes of gameplay, preferably ones the designers feel highlight the strengths of their game.
Thats all fine and i agree with you that it would be a good thing to add more reward tracks in the game.
But its completely off topic, unless you would also like reward tracks to be added to the trading post.
Its not off topic at all
*1 This topic is about trading post tax
*2 Why do people want a trading post tax?
- trading post makes too much money for people to compete without becoming a trading post person
- deeper meaning?
- progressing via trading post is far more effecient than progressing through other gameplay
The problem at the end of the day is that trading post is more rewarding than other activities, many of you say that this is for the value of the economy, while this may be true under the current systems, It isnt a good gameplay mechanic. Its not a good idea that the best way to succeed (get high end perks) by a large margin is to become a businessman in an adventure game.
more reward tracks for progression through other modes of gameplay(that cant be dominated/controlled/designed based on TP) is actually one of the possible solutions. That doesnt put a tax on tp players.
It takes time to monitor buy orders and markets, flood control when selling items slows you down etc. In the end it doesnt matter much, if you just use 200g to trade with or 20k gold.
I think it matters in that you can speculate with higher value items – like the aforementioned special event stuff, that you know is hardly gonna drop and if you have gold in the thousands throwing out a few hundred on those skins is not gonna hurt at all. That is to say, profit is a percentage of money used, not a flat amount like content rewards.
If you do any other content, you’re hardcapped not by your own ability, but by the dev’s restrictions. Time applies in both cases ofc, but isn’t gold per effort already what we’re comparing anyway? Good farming can make you what, 5-10g per hour? . I’ve seen people show and claim how you can make gold in the tens per hour on the market…
Just buy those limited edition event item. It’s not rocket science.
Sure you might get screwed from over hyping and price plumet but eventually they’ll always go back up.
You’re talking about stuff that happens only a few times per year and there isn’t a guarantee of:
1) the price rising much / having enough of them to actually profit
2) even getting the item in the first place, they are often expensiveTake the silly scimitar for example – it already started out at 60 or so gold. And it spiked a lot THREE MONTHS later.
Then you have Chiroptophobia, that started out also at 60some and toady is a little over 70…
So, to profit from that well enough, you not only have to already have tens or hundreds of gold in the fist place, you also need to be lucky and choose the right item and live with the fact that you might not see your money in months…Its not bad as an option, but its not good as the best option.
I have yet to see someone comment on this point, even though it is probably the most important of the discussion…
well just be patient. I quit the game a few times. Everytime I came back all my items double or triple in price.
Sometimes I regret not quiting longer since price doubles in a few month again.
The key is to make it so that people can feel like they are progressing at a decent rate via other modes of gameplay, preferably ones the designers feel highlight the strengths of their game.
Why dont’ those people just spend 1% of their time to invest in something on the trading post?
I dont’ spend much time on the TP. And I progress fine.
How does 1% of the time help anything? Just selling stuff from two successive dungeon runs at 1 copper less than current offer took me about 15 minutes for 30 items, in large part due to the slow responsiveness of the platform that BLTC is built upon. Wait 1-3 seconds for each change of page, seriously?
And 15 minutes is not 1% of my time, it is closer to 10% of the time spent playing a day… I don’t see what I could do in a few minutes on the TP that would be so profitable.
You just made a good argument for the fact that profits on the tp actually are capped and not only by the amount of gold some can invest.
It takes time to monitor buy orders and markets, flood control when selling items slows you down etc. In the end it doesnt matter much, if you just use 200g to trade with or 20k gold. There is a limit of items you can handle simultaneously and once you neglect to monitor your investments and buy orders the risk of actually making less profit or a loss becomes higher.
its not capped because there are various markets, which once you have greater money you can enter.
at level 1total money you may profit on green wood flipping/crafting- lets say 2 copper per click
untill you start operating at amounts in the 250 size, so 250×2copper per click
at level 2total money you may profit on iron speculation lets say 12 copper per click
250 size now 250×12 copper per click
eventually you break into higher value markets, like rare stat distribution items,
they sell for like 10 gold, and buy orders are for like 4-6 gold. profiting like 5 gold per click.
Eventually you get up to legendary and precursor levels, where you are either crafting your own for profit, or acting as the middleman for people who cant front 5% gold and wait long periods for a return
suffice to say, its not limited via clicks, its most limited via knowledge available capital, and supply/competitors
Every player who chooses to NOT to sell to the highest bidder and instead prices the item themselves is at the very least cutting the merchant class. It’s not beating them but it’s something. You are denying them from making money off of your ignorance, indifference and need for instant gratification. They make money because they are patient.
I’m not advocating that you join them, just not sell to them.
Of course the problem will persist because the vast majority of players won’t refuse to sell to highest bidder.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
at level 1total money you may profit on green wood flipping/crafting- lets say 2 copper per click
untill you start operating at amounts in the 250 size, so 250×2copper per click
at level 2total money you may profit on iron speculation lets say 12 copper per click
250 size now 250×12 copper per click
eventually you break into higher value markets, like rare stat distribution items,
they sell for like 10 gold, and buy orders are for like 4-6 gold. profiting like 5 gold per click.
Eventually you get up to legendary and precursor levels, where you are either crafting your own for profit, or acting as the middleman for people who cant front 5% gold and wait long periods for a returnsuffice to say, its not limited via clicks, its most limited via knowledge available capital, and supply/competitors
Go put 1000G into the market now and tell us all how many orders you have filled, listed and sold for profit in the next hour.
People are not just “clicking” and dropping massive margin returns on AUM instantly.
(edited by Fenrir.3609)
It takes time to monitor buy orders and markets, flood control when selling items slows you down etc. In the end it doesnt matter much, if you just use 200g to trade with or 20k gold.
I think it matters in that you can speculate with higher value items – like the aforementioned special event stuff, that you know is hardly gonna drop and if you have gold in the thousands throwing out a few hundred on those skins is not gonna hurt at all. That is to say, profit is a percentage of money used, not a flat amount like content rewards.
If you do any other content, you’re hardcapped not by your own ability, but by the dev’s restrictions. Time applies in both cases ofc, but isn’t gold per effort already what we’re comparing anyway? Good farming can make you what, 5-10g per hour? . I’ve seen people show and claim how you can make gold in the tens per hour on the market…
No tp trader makes most of his gold with high value items because the profit margins are actually too small for long time investments and its too risky.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
The thing is you dont’ even need to spend much time on the TP to earn money.
So even if you are a dungeoneer or farmer, why not just spend 1% of the time to invest in something.
That’s what I did. And the pay off is great. So if TP is an easy way to earn money, why not embrace it.
its easy for you, not for everybody. Many people dont want to even think about spending time researching every way to obtain an item and the current values of the other means of obtaining them. And i think its unreasonable to expect them to do that to succeed/progress at endgame activities in an adventure based mmo.
Its not bad as an option, but its not good as the best option.
It was been said several times before. Even if we erase the merchant class, it will change nothing at the pace you will aquire expensive, cosmetic, rare items because their impact on the prices is miniscule. I also fail to see how cosmetic goodies that have no influence to gameplay can be seen as core endgame content in an adventure mmo and being a merchant or crafter cannot.
The fact that merchants can acquire those goodies at a faster pace has no negative impact on your gameplay.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
On that note, why would anyone BUY keys? It’s such miserable value… full of crap useless one-shot items and slim chance at something useful. Lottery tickets basically.
I think key farmers might actually contribute instead of hurt it the sales :-) Maybe if you’re missing a key or two and don;t feel like farming anymore you’ll just go and buy it?
Why do people buy lottery tickets? The value of money and things we buy is relative. To someone with a lot of disposable income, spending $100 on lottery tickets or gems is nothing, they think it’s fun to scratch off tickets/open rng boxes and see what they get.
at level 1total money you may profit on green wood flipping/crafting- lets say 2 copper per click
untill you start operating at amounts in the 250 size, so 250×2copper per click
at level 2total money you may profit on iron speculation lets say 12 copper per click
250 size now 250×12 copper per click
eventually you break into higher value markets, like rare stat distribution items,
they sell for like 10 gold, and buy orders are for like 4-6 gold. profiting like 5 gold per click.
Eventually you get up to legendary and precursor levels, where you are either crafting your own for profit, or acting as the middleman for people who cant front 5% gold and wait long periods for a returnsuffice to say, its not limited via clicks, its most limited via knowledge available capital, and supply/competitors
Go put 1000G into the market now and tell us all how many orders you have filled, listed and sold for profit in the next hour.
People are not just “clicking” and dropping massive margin returns on AUM instantly.
once i have high amounts of money, i may not be making the same % or the same rapid returns, but you are making large % profit returns.
most people diversify
You got a couple of ways to do it, depending on how much time you have. by going small % repeatedly you can make geometric gains, you flip something fast for 102% then take results and flip for 102% throughout the day if you do this with fast markets, you can end up making massive money, but it requires many many flips. Its generally fairly stable though, and you will always make your money back, its just a matter of how long it will take to jump back in.
In this progressing to relatively high priced items make a big difference, like going from 2 copper one wood to 22 copper on another.
Then there are longer hustles, but they pay out big money in one swoop. Like buying a rare skin that sells for 400 gold, and returns 40 gold.
yeah it may take awhile to sell, but if you sell one a day, you make 40 gold just from that transaction for minimal work.
the more money have, the more of these markets you can hit, and the less competitors you have (because it requires large start up capital.
when you got 2000 gold you can do these types of investments on like 4 different items, making like 160 gold for a few clicks.
But you dont JUST use those, it may take days, it may not, you do the fast stuffwhen you got the time to min max on high velocity items, you take some longer term every couple of days sales, and you take risks with recipe gambles that generally pay out, but may bankrupt a person with a bad streak if they dont have back up capital.
so yeah with 1000 gold you can make a lot more per day, than you could with 10 gold. eventually your % starts to drop, but if your % is dropping doesnt matter when that % is giving you more per day for less work than people playing for a week.
I know the game, i just dont think its a good mechanic that me being able to focus on numbers, data, mathematics, should make me win at the game.
If i join a basketball league i want success and goals to be based on basketball, not business/accounting acumen.
Also, for those that dont think the tradepost is regulated like other areas of the game, I’ve got to say, it’s a laughable argument. Every time other activities in the game are “regulated” (world boss schedules, harvest nodes, etc), it subsequently regulates the TP by regulating the items on it. Regulating the trade post itself is unnecessary if all you need to do is control the influx of supply and introduce reasons to increase demand.
Actually, if what is being said is actually true, then it won’t be a problem.
I keep hearing “everyone is leaving the game because it’s not rewarding enough.” Ok, then, as players who do not play the TP leave the game, there are less people introducing items into the TP and less people buying them for their own use (instead of flipping/speculating).
In a few months, almost all of these non-TP Baron players will have left the game, leaving only the rich folks to flip and hoard items among themselves, at ever-growing prices, while TP taxes remove 15% of the gold in circulation every cycle. Higher prices plus less money in circulation means that eventually one person will have every piece of gold in the game, but won’t be able to afford to buy anything. Everyone else will have hoards of items to sell, but no one will be able to buy anything.
Game over. Move along folks, nothing to see here.
The thing is you dont’ even need to spend much time on the TP to earn money.
So even if you are a dungeoneer or farmer, why not just spend 1% of the time to invest in something.
That’s what I did. And the pay off is great. So if TP is an easy way to earn money, why not embrace it.
its easy for you, not for everybody. Many people dont want to even think about spending time researching every way to obtain an item and the current values of the other means of obtaining them. And i think its unreasonable to expect them to do that to succeed/progress at endgame activities in an adventure based mmo.
Its not bad as an option, but its not good as the best option.
It was been said several times before. Even if we erase the merchant class, it will change nothing at the pace you will aquire expensive, cosmetic, rare items because their impact on the prices is miniscule. I also fail to see how cosmetic goodies that have no influence to gameplay can be seen as core endgame content in an adventure mmo and being a merchant or crafter cannot.
The fact that merchants can acquire those goodies at a faster pace has no negative impact on your gameplay.
i dont believe this is the case, JS said super rich 1% TP barons arent effecting the prices, i am talking about the merchant class which is way greater than 1% of players. People like myself also dip in and out of the merchant class when its necessary to do so. There are very few people who save up earnings from 1-2 hours 5 days a week and get these items(you wont even keep up with inflation on some of these items). All of these items are marketed to the merchant class, and seem attainable, only when you start playing merchant. 400 gold fused gauntlets? 900 gold precursors, 300 silk scraps a day for 9 days for your armor? 100 gold for bank slots? etc.
the average player simply doesnt earn enough to be partaking in most of these markets. They cant be the main demographic because they simply dont earn enough money to be a major factor.
simple math
assuming desire for items to be the same for normal players and aristocrats
1/10 of players are interested in fused guantlets for example.
assuming regular player earns 10-20 extra gold a week
it will take average guy 20-40 weeks to get this item
it will take low end aristocracy 1-2 weeks to get this item
If the velocity is 40 items sold per week
this means each week 2 of those items are sold to average player, and 38 are sold to low end aristocracy, so who do you think the item is priced for?
The problem at the end of the day is that trading post is more rewarding than other activities, many of you say that this is for the value of the economy, while this may be true under the current systems, It isnt a good gameplay mechanic. Its not a good idea that the best way to succeed (get high end perks) by a large margin is to become a businessman in an adventure game.
more reward tracks for progression through other modes of gameplay(that cant be dominated/controlled/designed based on TP) is actually one of the possible solutions. That doesnt put a tax on tp players.
It’s probably the only possible solution to your problems. Now, to be clear, these are your problems with the way the game works, not the game’s problems.
The TP supports the game in the way the devs envisioned it – “working as intended.” Gold was chosen as the currency for the majority of activities over things like dungeon tokens, WvW badges, and karma and nearly every activity in the game creates gold, or items worth gold. This didn’t happen by accident, nor is it accidental that you can spend real money on gems and use them to buy gold. Note that you can’t buy karma with gems, you can’t use gems to get to the end boss in a dungeon, etc. Gems = gold.
Ripping apart this system or even dramatically changing it would impact Anet’s business model. Imagine an Anet or NCSoft executive, who doesn’t actually play the game or anything, his only interaction with GW2 is through earnings reports and such. What would he think about a plan to reduce the game’s reliance on gold, and therefore to reduce the opportunities for players to spend money on the game? These kinds of plans will simply never be approved unless you can show how buying jugs of karma from the gem shop or something will help the game bring in more money. Then comes the Pay2Win arguments…
Getting back to the “make other things more rewarding” idea, it is certainly possible to do this. Dungeon armor can’t be bought and sold on the TP, there are rewards in fractals that are account bound on pickup, the SAB had skins that could be sold but also some that could only be obtained through playing the SAB. Many event-related minis and other rewards are account bound. So it’s not like everything comes from and goes through the TP. All Anet needs is a reason to increase the frequency of these rewards.
Anet monitors player activity and supports activities that players want, while phasing out activities that players ignore. What about introducing exclusive weapon skins to the dungeon token merchants, or dropping them as rewards for boss kills? Easy enough, but they chose to introduce new weapon skins through the BLTC chests instead. They even brought back old weapon skins that were bound and made them sellable on the TP.
Why do you think they did that? Because people wanted to buy them. A fused weapon skin became rarer to see in game than a Legendary weapon. People complained about farming events for weeks and never finding a claim ticket so they could get the weapon skin(s) they wanted. And people do a brisk business farming keys and selling the skins on the TP.
If more people ran dungeons, they would introduce more dungeon rewards. If more people group up to kill Teq they will change the other dragon bosses to work the same way. If more people go to WvW they will introduce new rewards there as well.
If more people buy and sell items on the TP… they will add more things to the TP. Like weapon skins that so many people wanted but could never get.
You are one person. You can say that all your friends want this, that everyone you talk to in the game agrees with you, and it doesn’t mean kitten. Because Anet monitors player activity and responds accordingly. They’ve been focused on gold-based rewards for over a year now, because that is what most of their players want. If you want to change that, get more people into dungeons and wearing dungeon-exclusive armor, get more people going to WvW and using other parts of the game, and make them less reliant on the TP. Show Anet that this is what the players want and they will give it to them.
Coming to the forums and acting like your opinion is obviously supported by the majority of players will not work when the majority of players ignore the content you want Anet to focus on and actively use the content that you want Anet to ignore.
It was been said several times before. Even if we erase the merchant class, it will change nothing at the pace you will aquire expensive, cosmetic, rare items because their impact on the prices is miniscule. I also fail to see how cosmetic goodies that have no influence to gameplay can be seen as core endgame content in an adventure mmo and being a merchant or crafter cannot.
The fact that merchants can acquire those goodies at a faster pace has no negative impact on your gameplay.
When a popular item is up for sale, the player with the most money will get it. Where the money came from is irrelevant – someone who can spend 12 hours a day killing champions will get more loot than someone who can spend 2 hours per day at it. The guy who spends all day collecting loot will have more money and can buy more stuff.
So, without “TP Barons,” who do you compete with for rare items? Those guys. Will they be your next target? Should players be locked out of the game after 2 hours online per day? Because it’s not fair that someone should be able to collect loot all day long while you’re at school/work/taking the kids to a doc’s appt and therefore be able to get all those cool weapon skins that you never have enough money for.
(comments not directed at Wanze, just random thoughts)
The thing is you dont’ even need to spend much time on the TP to earn money.
So even if you are a dungeoneer or farmer, why not just spend 1% of the time to invest in something.
That’s what I did. And the pay off is great. So if TP is an easy way to earn money, why not embrace it.
its easy for you, not for everybody. Many people dont want to even think about spending time researching every way to obtain an item and the current values of the other means of obtaining them. And i think its unreasonable to expect them to do that to succeed/progress at endgame activities in an adventure based mmo.
Its not bad as an option, but its not good as the best option.
You’re purposely misconstruing what’s being said. No one is telling you to become a tradepost merchant. That is you and you alone. Everyone else is saying to spend a little time checking the prices of items you’re selling instead of looking for instant gratification. Tell me, would you sell a used car for $200 because that’s the top “I have cash, will buy now” offer, or would you take the time to check what it’s been selling for, IS selling for, and basically put up flyers saying you’re selling it for $7000? Odds are those buy it now offers are the exact people you have a problem with, yet you continue to feed them the methods they use to make money. But if you took the time to actually look at prices, you’d be able to sell your item at a higher price than the buy it now.
The more players that do this, the less money gets “funneled” to so-called TP Barons because they’re going to be competing with the entire playerbase that actually KNOWS how those people are making money. It’s purely a matter of educating players instead of punishing those that actually know how to use the trade post for than “ooooooo looooooooooot” /instasell
Should players be locked out of the game after 2 hours online per day? Because it’s not fair that someone should be able to collect loot all day long while you’re at …
Oh it’s not about that at all. You’re missing the point so much it hurts considering how many times it has been stated.
What we would like to see is lesser income disparity between the ways of making money in the game. I would see an ideal point where you have an average way of making money and any other way differs in potential only by +-50% in that you’re not gimping yourself by selecting a playstyle, therefore the only income gate that remains is time, which all players have in common.
Say you have…
1) harvesting and selling – 6gph
2) crafting – 12gph
3) doing dungeons – 10gph
4) world bosses – 12gph
5) PvP/WvW rewards – 7gph
etc etc
So that not one of these paths is worse off by more than double in comparison to a different one.
Then we can all differentiate our wealth more or less only by how much time we spend playing and not have to worry about being effective or not in a freakin’ causal game all the while experiencing all the game has to offer.
The thing is you dont’ even need to spend much time on the TP to earn money.
So even if you are a dungeoneer or farmer, why not just spend 1% of the time to invest in something.
That’s what I did. And the pay off is great. So if TP is an easy way to earn money, why not embrace it.
its easy for you, not for everybody. Many people dont want to even think about spending time researching every way to obtain an item and the current values of the other means of obtaining them. And i think its unreasonable to expect them to do that to succeed/progress at endgame activities in an adventure based mmo.
Its not bad as an option, but its not good as the best option.
You’re purposely misconstruing what’s being said. No one is telling you to become a tradepost merchant. That is you and you alone. Everyone else is saying to spend a little time checking the prices of items you’re selling instead of looking for instant gratification. Tell me, would you sell a used car for $200 because that’s the top “I have cash, will buy now” offer, or would you take the time to check what it’s been selling for, IS selling for, and basically put up flyers saying you’re selling it for $7000? Odds are those buy it now offers are the exact people you have a problem with, yet you continue to feed them the methods they use to make money. But if you took the time to actually look at prices, you’d be able to sell your item at a higher price than the buy it now.
The more players that do this, the less money gets “funneled” to so-called TP Barons because they’re going to be competing with the entire playerbase that actually KNOWS how those people are making money. It’s purely a matter of educating players instead of punishing those that actually know how to use the trade post for than “ooooooo looooooooooot” /instasell
used cars is a pretty good hustle because that is EXACTLY what happens with used cars.
Most used cars are bought from people for fraction of value, in “trade ins” or from mechanics, who will “take the car off your hands” They are then resold for a notable mark up to people who cant/dont know how/dont have the time to find the dude who just needs to get rid of it.
So yes its actually quite common for people to sell their cars to the first seller, and yes its still a bad idea to have a system tied to end game goals be based on used car sales mechanics.
The problem here is that most of these items are like the goals of play. they are equivalent to the raison d’etre in life. People dont buy used cars as their overall goal in life, in game life, these things are the overall goals. If you arent going to hunt cosmetics, or rares, your reason to play after hitting 80 and doing most content once is over.
I guess the other solution is to create more new and interesting content, but they already said they cannot create it as fast as players can consume it.
It’s probably the only possible solution to your problems. Now, to be clear, these are your problems with the way the game works, not the game’s problems.
The TP supports the game in the way the devs envisioned it – “working as intended.”
You are one person. You can say that all your friends want this, that everyone you talk to in the game agrees with you, and it doesn’t mean kitten. Because Anet monitors player activity and responds accordingly. They’ve been focused on gold-based rewards for over a year now, because that is what most of their players want. If you want to change that, get more people into dungeons and wearing dungeon-exclusive armor, get more people going to WvW and using other parts of the game, and make them less reliant on the TP. Show Anet that this is what the players want and they will give it to them.
Coming to the forums and acting like your opinion is obviously supported by the majority of players will not work when the majority of players ignore the content you want Anet to focus on and actively use the content that you want Anet to ignore.
Working as intended doesnt mean working as it should, or solving its design problems. This is why engineering is based on a loop, and why anet generally believes in an iterative process. At one time working as intended for cars was a 10 people killed per 100 million vehicle miles traveled, now its 1/10th that. But at one time 10 people was “working as intended”
Mike O brien said in an interview his idea for anet’s profits in a forbes interview was that if you make a good product with good design, people will happily part with money for it. By improving the product, he can then make more money. When people love playing, and keep playing, they spend more.
you have said in a previous post that you realized the best way to enjoy the game is to ignore the rewards, and thats the problem, you are right. The rewards should be reinforcing the game, instead its a sacrifice a player must make. The problem comes when the player graduates to a certain level, and comes to the realization that they can either ignore the reward mechanics and keep playing, become a merchant class, or stop playing.
A better solution is make it so you can get rewarded/progress while playing the game in multiple ways, rather than making people choose to play one way/accept that they cant progress without playing that way, or leave.
I mean you can say learn to play the TP or quit, but is that a good idea for an adventure game?
also as far as thats what players want due to data, your data showing thats what people want is based on a game that makes people have to get money to get what they want. Its circular reasoning.
you build a system whereby you have to get money in order to succeed.
then you say data shows people repeatedly do things that earn money.
Players want cool stuff but they dont necessarily want to be merchants, just take a look at diablo which sold 2.7 million in first week, one of the biggest changes to the game was the destruction of the auction house. What does this tell you about player behavior TP dominance and profit?