Guild Wars 2

last red post… page 19… we are at 30 now….

meanwhile every single other CDI has multiple posts each day… we haven’t had one in 2 days and by the looks of it, we will be going into the weekend without one…

next time we see will be Monday lol…wonder how many pages that will get to

I have a feeling a long post is being typed up. A post that has a summary of all the ideas that caught the devs eye’s and will be discussed further. It should be arriving any minute now…..

ItIsFinished.9462:

I have a feeling a long post is being typed up. A post that has a summary of all the ideas that caught the devs eye’s and will be discussed further. It should be arriving any minute now…..

i bet it wont

ItIsFinished.9462:

I have a feeling a long post is being typed up. A post that has a summary of all the ideas that caught the devs eye’s and will be discussed further. It should be arriving any minute now…..

Bran.7425:

Maybe they should just lock it out soon as the weekend will probably have it reach 40-50 pages (not a fun prospect to play catch up on)

That way that Monday or Tuesday they could open with a new thread discussion what idea were liked/dislike/not fitting the design they are going for. Maybe give the rangers some heads up on where the profession is heading so the player can make informed choices (on gear reselection, pets to use on content mode of choice, or simply that it is time to re-roll/leave)

This. We need some direction here, Anet.

Iason Evan.3806:

We need a spec where if we bring a pet, when we dodge, so does the pet. It won’t be OP because if I dodge when I am not in harm’s way, but my pet is, I am still using energy to do so.

This is a good suggestion. It’s kind of silly how the ranger can dodge a massive boss attack, but his pet still dies, thus neutering his damage for the rest of the fight.

Rangers should not be so reliant on their pets (and their dodgy ai), and pets should be more durable.

SkiTz.4590:

last red post… page 19… we are at 30 now….

meanwhile every single other CDI has multiple posts each day… we haven’t had one in 2 days and by the looks of it, we will be going into the weekend without one…

next time we see will be Monday lol…wonder how many pages that will get to

It’s a thread about rangers, what else did you expect? ANet’s approach to rangers is completely consistent and hasn’t altered for years. Their fine, what’s more to say?

The last post was…

Allie Murdock.8152:

I didn’t say Rangers are in the right spot. I just meant that we have to be very careful of the power creep.

See? Nothing of any significance is going to happen.

Allie Murdock.8152:

I didn’t say Rangers are in the right spot. I just meant that we have to be very careful of the power creep.

I agree. Please be very careful with any buffs. Those of you familiar with what happened in gw1 (NF + EotN onwards) will know how serious a problem power creep can be.

While a Dev’s on the scene, can we talk about the more broader issue’s – i.e. A large amount of Traits being in the wrong place, ranged weapons always being weaker than melee weapons, the belief that Rangers should only have sustained damage… (Is a 2 second Hundred Blades on a 6 second CD considered burst or sustained?)

At the moment what we really need now is detailed opinions on where you, the Anet Devs feel the ranger is performing poorly, and why. Obviously a fairly large amount of posters feel that their are huge issues. I’m getting the impression that Devs feel there are only minor issues. (Maybe because balance is done around SPvP, and thats the only gamemode where Rangers aren’t way waaaaay behind other classes?)

Devs please lock this thread, read through, and start afresh with summaries and a discussion direction. It’s getting too messy in here.

Specific Game Mode
PvX

Proposal Overview & Goal
To present more potent trait options that will encourage build diversity without sacrificing effectiveness or requiring 30pt trait investments that limit variety. Some Master traits may be a bit powerful, but numbers can change.

Proposal Functionality

This will span multiple posts (foreseeable risks in the final post), one for weapons, another for slot skills, and for every trait line except Beastmastery (Nature Magic is still in the works. Issues there too). I have many ideas for this line but they’re either far too powerful or too nuanced to be effective for any practical application anywhere in the game. Hopefully readers can see what I’m trying to do with these changes. Some are a bit powerful, but I feel it may have been necessary, considering the position Ranger is currently in. I tried to put traits in lines that matched their themes as stated on the wiki, and attempted to separate some of the Ranger’s reliance on the pet.

[Weapon Changes]—- Unless specified, all of these are additions/tweaks to current functionality.

Shortbow: (Original: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Short_bow#Ranger)
Proposal…
1 – Bounces once. Bounce does not inflict bleeding, but can trigger combo fields (50% projectile finisher).
2 – Now applies Bleeding in addition to poison. (5 stacks, 5s)
3 – Removes Cripple, Chill, and Immobilize. Blinds (5s). Evade covers twice the distance (no additional evade frames, just a distance increase).
4 – Pet no longer applies bleed. Your next 3 attacks inflict Torment. Arrow bounces 3 times to cripple multiple enemies.
5 – Always a stun. Inflicts Confusion (5 stacks, 5s) on interrupt.
.
.

Longbow: (Original: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Longbow#Ranger)
Proposal…
1 – Always deals ~90% of current maximum damage.
2 – Each shot is 1% more powerful than the last. Vulnerability removed.
3 – Grants Super Speed (3s) on hit.
Reasoning: Aids in re-positioning.
4 – Now also immobilizes for 3s.
Reasoning: Same as above.
5 – Cast time changed to 2 seconds, down from 2 3/4s. Damage increased by 10%. Strips swiftness from enemies hit.
.
.

Warhorn: No changes. See the improved Skirmishing III – Offhand Training in a later post.
.
.

Greatsword: (Original: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Greatsword#Ranger)
Proposal…
1 – Attack speed increased by 30%.
2 – No change.
3 – Increased speed. Target is dazed if struck from behind or the side.
4 – Kick from successful counter inflicts Weakness (4s). Crippling Throw – Can be thrown without facing target. Destroys projectiles along its path.
5 – No change. Phase 2 added:
Disarm – (Available for 1s on successful interrupt): a fierce swing that temporarily disarms your foe. Enemy is unable to attack with weapon skills for 1s.
.
.

Sword: (Original: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sword#Ranger)
Dodge responsiveness during auto attack was already discussed at length by others, and is already being looked into.
Proposal…
1 – Last hit restores 10 endurance.
2 – Reverse order.
3 – No change.
.
.

Axe: (Original: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Axe#Ranger)
Proposal…
1 – Slight base damage increase (5%?)
2 – Cast changed to 1/2s, down from 3/4s.
3 – No change.
4 – Slight base damage increase (7%?). Projectile speed increase.
5 – Slow movement possible during channel. Phase 2 added: Brandish.
Brandish: Quickly and powerfully reverse your rotation, causing Blowout in the area around you (180 radius) and gaining brief Stability (2s). Increases cooldown by 20 seconds.
.
.

Dagger: (Original: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger#Ranger)
Proposal…
4 – Very slight distance increase. (<= 100 range)
5 – No change.
.
.

Torch: (Original: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Torch#Ranger)
Proposal…
4 – Increased projectile speed.
5 – Base radius increased to 180. Duration decreased to 6 seconds. Burning per pulse increased to 2s, up from 1s.

[Marksmanship] New traits underlined. Improved/changed traits in italics. Imported traits bolded.

Notes:
*No change to minor traits.
*Piercing Arrows and Eagle Eye were made innate features. Shortbow does not get Eagle Eye’s range increase.
*Beastmaster’s Might functionality is ported into Signet Mastery. Might stacks and duration adjusted accordingly.
*Signets affect both the ranger and pet by default.

I. Steady Focus – Same 10% damage boost. Your first attack is now unblockable. Restored 20 seconds after leaving combat.

II. Fight And Flight – A new skill, “Fight And Flight”, replaces Skill #1 on Longbow and Shortbow when the ranger is below 25% Hp and under a control effect.
“Fight And Flight” – Attack the attackers eyes by stabbing with an arrow. Inflicts Blind (4s) and is a 600 range 1 second evade. Stunbreak. 90s recharge.

III. Keen Edge – No change (Sharpening Stone buff).

IV. Signet Mastery – Reduces recharge on signets. Now grants Might (2 stacks, 7 seconds) on signet use.

V. Predator’s Instinct – Deal 5% more damage to poisoned foes. Critical chance increased by 5% on poisoned foes.

VI. Hunter’s Instinct – Gain Fury (10s) and Super Speed (10s) when your targets health reaches 20%. 90 second recharge.

VII. Spotter – Precision bonus unchanged. Deal 5% more damage to enemies beyond 900 range. Reasoning: Attempts to increase Longbow viability in PvE. Benefits off-point play in PvP.

VIII. Quick Draw – Damage of shortbow and longbow increased by 5%. Gain Quickness (2s, 9s cooldown) when weapon swapping to a bow.Reasoning: Allows the ranger to react more quickly to a foe after a weapon swap. Added damage improves longbow and encourages hybrid play with shortbow.

IX. Keep Away – While wielding a bow, distance covered when dodging increased by 66% (no extra evade frames, just a distance increase). Endurance cost +5% (Prevents double dodging without vigor). Reasoning: Allows better mobility and positioning with bows.

X. Tracker – Calling a target inflicts 5 Vulnerability and applies 2 seconds of Revealed. Pets do 5% more damage to called targets. 30 second recharge. Only works on a newly called target.
Reasoning: Rewards players for calling targets properly in all game modes. Note: Will not produce an effect on enemies already called as a target by allies.

XI. Remorseless – In addition to original functionality: Opening Strike removes a boon. Stealth duration increased by 1 second. Allies you revive gain Opening Strike.Note: Opening Strike given to allies and pets will function with all relevant traits, including this one.Reasoning: Adds an effect beneficial to team play in all game modes.

XII. Resilient Signets – Casting a signet reduces incoming duration on Bleeding, Burning, Poison, Torment, and Confusion by 33% for 10 seconds.Reasoning: Provides a means of condition mitigation outside of the Wilderness Survival line.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Yoh.8469:

-snip-

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

:O That’s big! I’m not sure if it’s good to hear or not – when I DO trait for signets, I love them, but when I don’t, I never bring them. They are FANTASTIC and it’d be a pity losing them in wvw zerging, and I’d be sad to lose that if they’re bought down too much. But this change could be great! crosses fingers

[Skirmishing] New traits underlined. Improved/changed traits italic. Imported traits bolded.

Notes:
*Trapper’s Defense (Removed)
*Trapper’s Expertise (Moved to Wilderness Survival, switches places with Off-hand Training)
*Trap Potency (Moved to Wilderness Survival);
*Quick Draw (Moved to Marksmanship)
*Pet’s Prowess merged with Carnivorous Appetite, now named Bloodthirsty Pets and moved to Beastmastery.
*Off-hand Training imported from Wilderness Survival.
*Two-Handed Training imported from Nature Magic.
*Openings: 2 Adept, 3 Master, 1 Grand Master.

I. Climate Tolerance – Reduces duration on incoming Cripple, Chill, and Immobilize by 25% while under the effect of Swiftness.
Reasoning: Emphasizes the trait line’s stated focus on mobility. Synergy with this lines minor trait: Tail Wind (swiftness on weapon swap)
.
II. Sharpened Edges – Bleed duration increased to 3 seconds. Deal 5% more critical damage to bleeding foes.

III. Off-Hand Training – Increases utility and/or effectiveness of offhand weapon skills.
Axe4→ Projectile speed increased.
Axe5→ Usable while moving (crippled speed). Reflected attacks do 10% more damage.
Dagger4 → Evade duration increased by 0.5 seconds. Inflicts one Torment (6s)
Dagger5→ Unblockable. Usable on targets behind you.
Torch4→ Larger impact radius (180). Burst on impact hits up to 5 foes and burns (2s).
Torch5→ Radius 120 → 180.Grants immunity to Chill and Blind (1.5s per pulse). Field duration reduced to 5 seconds, down from 8.
Warhorn4→ Every 4th hit causes Blind (1s).
Warhorn5→ Grants stealth (2s).
Reasoning: Synergy with Remorseless.

IV. Primal Reflexes – Added bonus: Refill your endurance when rallied or an allies endurance after successfully reviving a downed ally.

V. Companion’s Might – No change.

VI. Agility Training – Added bonus: Pets cannot be Crippled or Chilled. Pets take 20% more damage while Stunned, Dazed, Knocked Back, etc.Reasoning: Impervious to soft control effects, but more vulnerable to hard control effects. Immobilize is not resisted. This was added under the assumption that pet survivability under AoE pressure will be addressed, so the 20% isn’t as drastic.

<Master>

VII. Dexterity – Weapon swap recharge reduced to 5 seconds.Reasoning: Increases combat fluidity.

VIII. Skirmisher’s Momentum – Gain one stack of Skirmisher’s Momentum (+2% crit chance, max 5, stack lasts 5s) for each successfully evaded attack while wielding a Sword or Greatsword. No cooldown. Reasoning: Rewards dodges that are timed to avoid multiple attacks.

IX. Honed Axes – No change.

X. Two-Handed Training – No change.

XI. Moment Of Clarity – No change.

XII. Serrated Axeblades – Ricochet has one additional bounce (4 total). Ricochet copies one condition from the first enemy hit to all enemies it bounces to (5s recharge). Path of Scars removes a boon. Reasoning: Improves Axe viability as a hybrid weapon.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

I don’t know if I should like this or not. As Chrispy has already pointed out in this thread, the signets are actually pretty strong. They probably have to be toned down and I really don’t think a nerf shouldn’t be the outcome of this thread.

Why not take World of Warcraft’s pet skill bar system/feature into perspective?

[Wilderness Survival] New traits underlined. Improved/changed traits in italics. Imported traits bolded.

Notes:
*Expertise Training merged with Malicious Training and moved to Beastmastery. Openings: Marksmanship Adept, Wilderness Survival Adept.
*Healer’s Celerity removed.
*Off-hand training moved to Skirmishing.
*Martial Mastery merged with Two-Handed Mastery and moved to Skirmishing.
*Hide In Plain Sight renamed to Fall Back and grants an additional skill usable only while cc’d.
*Traps ground targeted by default, with 600 range. Functionality of Trap Expertise changed.
*Bark Skin moved to Nature Magic.
*Openings: 2 Adept, 2 Master.

<Adept>

I. Soften The Fall – No change.

II. Leaf Storm – When stunned, knocked back, etc., create a Leaf Storm that blinds enemies where you were stunned. 3 pulses, once per second, that Blind (1s) in a 180 radius. 90 second recharge. Reasoning: Attempts to prevent chain-cc. Replaces: Healer’s Celerity

III. Shared Anguish – No change.

IV. Vigorous Renewal – No change.

V. Vibrant Skin – Absorbs one incoming condition application per stack (If an attack inflicts 5 bleeds in one hit, it will only consume one stack of Vibrant Skin). Max 5 stacks. Stacks are unaffected by attacks that do not inflict conditions. Builds up over time (every 15s) while out of combat or fully replenished upon killing a foe. Reasoning: Some sort of condition resilience on engage that is reliably removable by the enemy. Automated Reponse and Diamond Skin could follow suit, with different methods for removing the stacks. Replaces: Expertise Training.

VI. Wilderness Knowledge – No change.

<Master>

VII. Pack Leader – Incoming damage reduced by 2% (constant) per nearby ally, up to 10%. Effect is no longer produced when under 66% Hp. Does not count downed allies. Reasoning: Provides a bit of resilience when in a group setting (sustain to last long enough for sustained damage), and offers support to allies. Ideal for WvW, perhaps lowered to 5% total in PvP.
VIII. Trap Expertise – Trap radius increased (same as before). Traps remove specific boons from up to 3 enemies in the trigger area.
Flame Trap -> Removes Retaliation and Regeneration.
Frost Trap -> Removes Stability. Cooldown raised to 40s, up from 30s.
Spike Trap -> Removes Swiftness and Fury.
Viper’s Nest -> Removes Might and Vigor. Cooldown raised to 30s, up from 20s.

IX. Fall Back(Replaces Hide In Plain Sight) – Grants stealth (3s) when cc’d and changes your heal skill into Fall Back for 1 second.
Fall Back – Stunbreak. Aim and dodge along selected path (400 range) then lie on the ground, gaining more stealth (10s). Moving, attacking, or using instant skills will reveal you (10s). While in this unique stealth: Endurance will not regenerate, skills recharge at half speed, and incoming damage is increased by 50%. 90 second cooldown.
Reasoning: Hide In Plain Sight is pointless against a player that understands how it functions.

X. Shedding – Remove one condition when you dodge. The condition will be left on the ground (3s, 120 radius) and will apply itself to the first enemy that walks on it. 5s cooldown.
Note: Damage is based off of the condition damage of the initial applicant. Ex: You are bled by a warrior, you shed the condition, enemy walks into it and takes damage based off of the warriors condition damage stat.

<Grand Master>

XI. Empathic Bond – No change.

XII. Trap Potency – No change.

Currently my final proposal post. There are a slew of difficulties with my proposed changes to Nature Magic and Beastmastery to the extent that presenting them here would be pointless.

Risks
Some of these traits are very, very powerful in combination with each other and carry the potential of making Ranger far too good at too many things, of this I am aware. What I’d like anyone who reads this to pay attention to isn’t the numbers, but the concepts (especially Keep Away and Quick Draw in my revised Marksmanship, as well as Vibrant Skin and Shedding in Wilderness Survival).

idk about u guys but i’ve never seen this many dev posts in a ranger thread b4, so…. (insert word) is inc.

Since we have attention again

Specific Game Mode
PvX

Proposal Overview
Opening Strikes, a “core” mechanic in the Marksmanship like is fairly useless in general gameplay.

Goal of Proposal
Improve the Marksmanship line by moving more useful traits to Minor Traits.
Rework all Opening Strike traits into a single Master Grandmaster Tier Trait.
Rework Remorseless, it’s still too limited, even with the added Stealth, it only provides more use on a single weapon.

Proposal Functionality
Honestly, this will require more investigation and number crushing than I can note, so I’ll post my “Nice to have”:

Rework all Opening Strike traits into a single Master Grandmaster Tier Trait.
Rework Remorseless into a Trait that causes Vulnerability on Crit and increases crit chance against opponents with vulnerability
The Minor Traits:
Minor Adept: Steady Focus
Minor Master: Predator’s Instinct (reduce recharge? 30s is a lot)
Minor Grandmaster: Remorseless

This frees up place for 2 new Adept Tier traits. Some GW1 suggestions:
Read The Wind: Arrows travel 20% faster
Melandru’s Arrows: Your attacks cause Bleeding for 3s if the foe has a boon.
Glass Arrows: Blocked Arrows cause Bleeding

In addition, I’d merge Piercing Arrows and the 20% reduced recharge on Bow SkillsTrait from Skirmishing so it’s in-line with the Warrior Trait. Having to invest 40 Trait points for the same effect seems overkill.

Associated Risks
Ranger would get buffed. Which is bad?

Please don’t post walls of text. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

Seriously though, it’s far easier and more productive to discuss one thing or a few things at a time than to read your entire reworking of the class. In fact, you’re less likely to get your ideas noticed because you’re posting a wall of text.

Interesting. Mr. Cronacher appears to be working from the end towards beginning. Have to see if any more proposals get the nod.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

This is a pretty cool idea to make that trait a bit more unique for each shout rather than applying the same two boons for every shout. It would give more reason to take specific shouts. In general shouts do need some tweaks as well to make them more appealing.

It would be directly analogous to the Guardian trait Inspired Virtue. Since it demands higher commitment (both to acquire the trait and to carry shouts in your utility slots) it could/should deliver greater benefit.

All in all a fairly elegant suggestion.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Yoh.8469:

Specific Game Mode
PvX

Proposal Overview

• Redesign the ‘Active’ portions of Signets to effects that work on both the Ranger and Pet by default.

Goal of Proposal

• To give these skills more utility when activated, while also filling in weaknesses in the Rangers design. (lack of viable stun breaks and active condition removal)

Proposal Functionality

• Signet of Renewal
  Passive – Removes a condition every 10 seconds.
  Active – Remove 2 conditions from you and your pet. 25 sec CD.
  This would largely solve the Rangers lack of active condition removal. Thou one more source of active removal might still be needed to give people options.

• Signet of Stone
  Passive – Increase Toughness on you and your pet.
  Active – You and your pet gain Stability and Aigis for X seconds. Stun Break. 30-45 sec CD.
  This should give the Ranger another viable stun break and stability option, besides Lightning Reflexes. So long as the cooldown isn’t prohibitively long.

• Signet of the Hunt
  Passive – You and your pet move 25% faster.
  Active – You and your pet’s next attack deals 25% more damage. 30 sec CD.
  A decent compromise with what the skill currently does, allowing for spike potential without being overly strong.

• Signet of the Wild
  Passive – You and your pet regenerate health.
  Active – You and your pet share damage for X seconds. 40 sec CD.
  Note, with the Signet of the Wild’s active effect, when you take direct damage, 50% of that goes to your pet, and vice versa. Only once per damage, it doesn’t bounce back and forth. Retaliation and conditions are unaffected.
  The reason you’d want to do this is that Protection, Retaliation can be triggered twice, in addition to healing. However you run the risk of taking double damage if both you and your pet are being attacked. Naturally it doesn’t work if your pet is dead.

Associated Risks
The ‘Signet of the Beastmaster’ would be rendered useless by this change, and would have to be replaced. Signet of the Wild’s effect could become too powerful in SPvP as a tanking option. Increasing the cooldown for that version could solve that problem.

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

Awesome sauce, I hope you come up with something good.
The Passives for the most part are awesome, I think there some of the best of any profession. cough ‘Mesmer’ cough
Just the actives are really awkward as you said, and not even that powerful or offer that much utility.
I think that’s the sign of a good Signet, is that’s your torn between activating it or not, and often times it’s pretty obvious not to.

Signet of Ether I think is an example of a Signet done exceedingly well.
More like that please and thank you.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

That’s good to hear that you guys agree that it is indeed rather awkward when Rangers are the only class that required a 30point investment for their signets to work properly.

Changing signets so their active effect will always apply to both Ranger and Pet would validate their (sometimes insane) cooldowns. Naturally some actives would require modifications as it would be pretty daft when Signet of Renewal would basically kill yourself and your pet (maybe change the active so it cleanses 3 conditions and maybe add some regeneration?).

However, please do not fiddle too much with the other actives as they seem to be in a pretty decent spot considering their cooldowns. It was the 30pt GM trait requirement that was throwing things out of whack in my humble opinion.

As a suggestion you could change ‘Signet of the Beastmaster’ to function like Written in Stone which would make it a worthy Grandmaster trait in my opinion.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Written_in_Stone

Or you could opt to remove the the trait entirely in favor of a new GM trait that is more befitting the Marksmanship tree and reserve the name ‘Signet of the Beastmaster’ for when you want to make an Elite signet or something.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Yoh.8469:

Specific Game Mode
PvX

Proposal Overview

• Redesign the ‘Active’ portions of Signets to effects that work on both the Ranger and Pet by default.

Goal of Proposal

• To give these skills more utility when activated, while also filling in weaknesses in the Rangers design. (lack of viable stun breaks and active condition removal)

Proposal Functionality

• Signet of Renewal
  Passive – Removes a condition every 10 seconds.
  Active – Remove 2 conditions from you and your pet. 25 sec CD.
  This would largely solve the Rangers lack of active condition removal. Thou one more source of active removal might still be needed to give people options.

• Signet of Stone
  Passive – Increase Toughness on you and your pet.
  Active – You and your pet gain Stability and Aigis for X seconds. Stun Break. 30-45 sec CD.
  This should give the Ranger another viable stun break and stability option, besides Lightning Reflexes. So long as the cooldown isn’t prohibitively long.

• Signet of the Hunt
  Passive – You and your pet move 25% faster.
  Active – You and your pet’s next attack deals 25% more damage. 30 sec CD.
  A decent compromise with what the skill currently does, allowing for spike potential without being overly strong.

• Signet of the Wild
  Passive – You and your pet regenerate health.
  Active – You and your pet share damage for X seconds. 40 sec CD.
  Note, with the Signet of the Wild’s active effect, when you take direct damage, 50% of that goes to your pet, and vice versa. Only once per damage, it doesn’t bounce back and forth. Retaliation and conditions are unaffected.
  The reason you’d want to do this is that Protection, Retaliation can be triggered twice, in addition to healing. However you run the risk of taking double damage if both you and your pet are being attacked. Naturally it doesn’t work if your pet is dead.

Associated Risks
The ‘Signet of the Beastmaster’ would be rendered useless by this change, and would have to be replaced. Signet of the Wild’s effect could become too powerful in SPvP as a tanking option. Increasing the cooldown for that version could solve that problem.

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

making signets better would be nice but clearly the active effects would have to change on at least “ALL of THEM”. Which means you run the risk of breaking our zerk build…..

Tread wisely is all I have to say or you’ll have even unhappier rangers than before the CDI. You could not only not please but anger every ranger that carried this to 30 pages asking for better damage capacity.

Atherakhia.4086:

Chokolata.1870:

The longbow is easy to fix:
-compress the Rapid fire into 2.5 seconds from 4.5 seconds, keep total damage the same
-hunter shot stealths on shot not on hit
-allow movement during barrage channel

There, I fixed it… tsk

You’ve made it better, but it’s still an incomplete weapon. There’s no synergy between the attacks like there are with melee weapons. No real flow. You’ve also left the problem where Barrage and Hunter’s Shot are counter intuitive because you can stealth then barrage but you can’t barrage and then stealth. This is why barrage needs to be removed from the weapon. It just doesn’t make any sense the way it’s set up currently.

I disagree with this.

I like Barrage because it is a anti-melee pressure skill. Rangers always complain that people always get out of barrage aoe. So, I like to capitalize on that mind set and make barrage a anti-melee field. I use it to surround myself and shoot people from afar.

I wish barrage cooldown is lowered.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

misterdevious.6482:

Specific Game Mode
WvW

Proposal Overview
Make shouts a more reliable and dependable skill choice. Make Nature’s Voice more than just the “Guard” spamming trait by adding specific ally buffs for each shout skill.

Goal of Proposal
Shouts are generally seen as unreliable. Your pet needs to be alive. Your pet needs to be healthy enough or it will die and waste the shout. The skill can be wasted if the target/ally goes down or rallies before the pet reaches it. Nature’s Voice is seen by many as serving only one purpose… to spam the Guard skill for Swiftness and Regen, and that is too singular a purpose for a grand master trait.

Proposal Functionality
Nature’s Voice: Shouts grant buffs to allies. Guard grants Swiftness and Regen. Protect Me grants Retaliation and Protection. Sic ’em Grants Fury and Might. Search and Rescue grants Stability and Stealth (or Camouflage).

Associated Risks
People taking and using shouts for the traited purpose rather than the original skill purpose (this already happens with Guard). Any additional shouts added will further complicate this trait. The loss of regen/swiftness from the other shouts may be felt by some players. Being able to stealth rez is quite a powerful ability in WvW.

This is a pretty cool idea to make that trait a bit more unique for each shout rather than applying the same two boons for every shout. It would give more reason to take specific shouts. In general shouts do need some tweaks as well to make them more appealing.

understatement of the year. But improving them if your true to the line their in creates just another bunker option as I look at them from a PvP perspective simply by line and points. Granted well designed it might be a power bunker option but bunker nonetheless.

On the other hand you have a series of utilities I’m not sure anyone is wedded to and desperately need to help ranger find a viable role in high end pve. Shouts make a pretty logical choice to put a solution within: And please remember sometimes it’s combating other player perception of pet evils. If other players know there is a no skill cap way to be 100% safe from poor pet management aggro….unknown rangers become less stigmatized because theres an idiotproof solution. Check if the ranger you added to group has the grey buff of safety….All’s well. Pet Prejudice the racism of gaming. (Always is, your game isn’t unique) Clearly hard to fix anticipate.

Give rangers a way to turn on a my pet is idiot proof sign through a shout that forces the pet passive and stops it from drawing aggro give it a 4 hour duration and assign no point value to it. Or all pve rangers suffer for the collective memory of poorly managed pet wipes.

Pet’s have pulled way to many “I’m chuck norris” moments in gamers memories. If I pve I heal(Why I don’t pve in a no heal no intertwined dependency game and in that frame of reference I hate pet class players I don’t know too. Just raising the issue that just because you know it’s skill cap doesn’t mean it doesn’t impact how rangers get treated in game. Unfortunate but true.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

While this is good news, I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s not thrilled with the idea of having to trade a traited 6 second stone signet for an untraited ~3 second one. Same with Signet of the Wild. Not if we aren’t going to get another source of stability beyond our elite and signet.

Substance E.4852:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

While this is good news, I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s not thrilled with the idea of having to trade a traited 6 second stone signet for an untraited ~3 second one. Same with Signet of the Wild. Not if we aren’t going to get another source of stability beyond our elite and signet.

If anything, they’d just need to adjust Signet of the Hunt and Signet of Renewal’s actives. I still don’t know why the Hunt gives a damage bonus for a single attack, and why Renewal tosses effects onto your pet when it could just easily cleanse 2-3 conditions from you, the pet, and 4 others nearby.

dev answers wooohoooo btw if our prof is supposed to buff allies we do poor job at it.
shout or signer or even bot should help out allies when we activate them in some way.
and gives some stability without going grand master in signet mastery rampage as one doesn’t count. in wvw entangle is key

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

I don’t know if I should like this or not. As Chrispy has already pointed out in this thread, the signets are actually pretty strong. They probably have to be toned down and I really don’t think a nerf shouldn’t be the outcome of this thread.

Yeah, the actives do have to be toned down in order for them to affect the pet and Ranger, but not as much as Yoh is suggesting.

Sigh….3,….2,….1,….. and…..“What the kitten Chrispy!?!” (I know someone was thinking of it!)

….Well, lets look at the Signet of Renewal suggestion. The passive effect hasn’t changed. It still removes a condition every 10 seconds. The Active, removes 2 conditions, with a 25 second cooldown. Under that suggestion, it is better, and more efficient, to just let the passive effect stay on without ever bothering to use the active. It would be like Warriors Healing Signet, where the active never gets used because the passive is so much obviously better.

That suggestion in that post is a nerf, not a buff or a positive change. The Original Active of Signet of Renewal broke stun on you, and would remove all conditions from allies, and transfer them to your pet. Sure, your pet had to be alive, and it would surely die after using the signet, but, if I had to choose between removing all conditions from me and my allies(and giving them to my pet), or just removing 2 from me and my pet….I would definitely pick the option that removes more conditions.

Glad for the Dev response, but, most of that suggestion itself isn’t that amazing. You need to work on it a little bit Yoh.

Chrispy.5641:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

I don’t know if I should like this or not. As Chrispy has already pointed out in this thread, the signets are actually pretty strong. They probably have to be toned down and I really don’t think a nerf shouldn’t be the outcome of this thread.

Yeah, the actives do have to be toned down in order for them to affect the pet and Ranger, but not as much as Yoh is suggesting.

Sigh….3,….2,….1,….. and…..“What the kitten Chrispy!?!” (I know someone was thinking of it!)

….Well, lets look at the Signet of Renewal suggestion. The passive effect hasn’t changed. It still removes a condition every 10 seconds. The Active, removes 2 conditions, with a 25 second cooldown. Under that suggestion, it is better, and more efficient, to just let the passive effect stay on without ever bothering to use the active. It would be like Warriors Healing Signet, where the active never gets used because the passive is so much obviously better.

That suggestion in that post is a nerf, not a buff or a positive change. The Original Active of Signet of Renewal broke stun on you, and would remove all conditions from all allies, and transfer them to your pet. Sure, your pet had to be alive, and it would surely die after using the signet, but, if I had to choose between removing all conditions from me and my allies(and giving them to my pet), or just removing 2 from me and my pet….I would definitely pick the option that removes more conditions.

Glad for the Dev response, but, most of that suggestion itself isn’t that amazing. You need to work on it a little bit Yoh.

Any Significant cd reduction would also end up generating a severe nerf to beastmasters might. Put us on a reduced but weakened signet CD and it would be an absolute must.

Now the traits are fine. But as people push 30 to get full utility of benefitting themselves and not just the pet. The better solution would be to do the following I think.

Rewrite signet of the wild and signet of stone to work like SoH. i.e. a 14 minute grey buff that can be preloaded and activates the next time you attack(wild) and get attacked (stone).

What this means is for 30 points the beastmaste ranger can enter combat without initial might but doing more damage and with a six second invuln…. As they go through combat about 6 seconds in they can reset their signets generate their beastmasters might spike crescendo get more defense then have the existing CD reset.

The change has their initial damage starting slower, their existing front end burst moves to a middle(but their defense was enhanced another 6 seconds) then they have the same long existing cd.

Of course one would be free to use it the existing way but preloading would I think become the preferred choice as it would have a survivability chance vs multi opponents. RaO on the front end to generate might through those first 6 seconds would lead to secondary signet pops being a 1 maybe 2 not 3 pop, letting them hold a safety in reserve.

And quite frankly not increase the DPS spike but enhance their sustain a bit and create more tactical play in the build.

Personally if I dared touch signets, that’s all I’ld risk.

Ohh and BM’s going 20 in power….would get additional pet improvements for debunkering and it might create a new interesting hybrid BM build from the bottom heal line as well.

And the ability for a 12 second invuln pet may benefit pve. Sustain is about survival they spend alot their job is to get close keep the zerk ranger at range…..If 12 is to long cumulatively to begin a fight can a debuff be created on Sig stone invuln fade that lasts say 15 seconds which halves the effectiveness of the next sig stone invuln?

Which of course begs the point is that a zerk melee signet maul or do they want to stand over there and shoot me….which opens options in indecision.

Pretty sure the existing signet players might be ok with that but I’ld ask them before messing with the one power build that seems popular.

It means running my carrion power trap build I could choose to ignore ws having a powerful defensive option to cycle and use far more tactically in MM than the passive back end there.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

It is great thing get at least some feedback from devs and have small hints of what kind of changes we might see in future, but changes on signets and shouts wont help much if nothing is done to pet. So it would be nice to hear what kind of changes you can and are ready to do. Aspect suggestion was shot down as to time consuming and not fitting on class design. You have all so say or at least let us understand that ranger pets are somehow tied to they mob version and much cant be done to improve because of that, witch most likely means none of the suggestions in this topic is useful unless you want make mobs harder all so. So to help you it would be nice here more of limitations of pet design and what changes you have already decide to do.

Game Mode
PVE, I played all balancely, but what need help the most is PVE

Proposal overview

Effect of food and runes, also effect PET

Goal of Proposal

Ranger is the only pet class that shared it’s core damage with pet, so the effect of POWER from ranger, less effective than other class, for example :

-200 in power give ranger lesser damage than other class does, and with the upcoming ascended gear, the pet doesn’t get increased damage, so the ranger is the most diasadvantage class here if another gear or rune upgrade coming.

- Rune of traveler and speed, clearly other class got the benefit of 25% movement speed and no problem, but the ranger here, it has pet whose also need movement speed, so if we want to use this rune effectively, we forced to use agility training so the pet can run equally with the master.

Dev keep talking about best singe target damage, and sustained bla bla bla whatever, please look at the FACT here FACT that happened and makes ranger UNWANTED profeesion in the game, PET dies = we SUCK, we use same gear, same trait point and compare single target or total DPS per minute, we still CAN’T beat WARRIOR or THIEF, so what’s our ROLE exactly here ? DUNGEON we unwanted, WVW we can be replaced by anyone, so does PVP, i played only ranger and have been playing since september 2012 and what i’ve seen here is, the dev care nothing about this class, they only care about warrior, all class can use signet, ranger need 30 trait point to use signet, hello Allie if you’re there and read this, please take this seriously, cause ranger is SERIOUSLY SERIOUS need help

Proposal Functionality

Help the ranger get the help they need a little bit

Associated Risk

There was no risk in this, should have been done since they decided to separate ranger and pet actual damage

runeblade.7514:

Atherakhia.4086:

Chokolata.1870:

The longbow is easy to fix:
-compress the Rapid fire into 2.5 seconds from 4.5 seconds, keep total damage the same
-hunter shot stealths on shot not on hit
-allow movement during barrage channel

There, I fixed it… tsk

You’ve made it better, but it’s still an incomplete weapon. There’s no synergy between the attacks like there are with melee weapons. No real flow. You’ve also left the problem where Barrage and Hunter’s Shot are counter intuitive because you can stealth then barrage but you can’t barrage and then stealth. This is why barrage needs to be removed from the weapon. It just doesn’t make any sense the way it’s set up currently.

I disagree with this.

I like Barrage because it is a anti-melee pressure skill. Rangers always complain that people always get out of barrage aoe. So, I like to capitalize on that mind set and make barrage a anti-melee field. I use it to surround myself and shoot people from afar.

I wish barrage cooldown is lowered.

Longbow synergizes quite well for mixed damage builds. And barrage and hunters shot being counter intuitive seems counter intuitive. Layered damage and advanced preparation to resist generate damage is designed into us. From preloaded traps and spirits to SoH….

By setting up our opponents so multiple damages all come to bear in a short order that took us a decent bit longer to set up.

The KB ensures your stealth hits if you choose to not combo your disengage with a stealth drop target to prevent a quick leap as your big fat pet runs behind you creating a click target issue….So be it. It works.

If one doesn’t get the value of being able to bury your vulnerability with opening strikes then refresh it with a traited longbow. So be it.

Barrage not only layers damage people blow cleanses. And use dodges and weaken themselves….Or they run slowly at me and a stack of traps that applies my conditions in precise order….

The stealth is a near must to drop you elite spirit and prevent interupt. Our stealth mass raise. Don’t forget stealth finish potential downed doesn’t dodge.

And my break away KB stealth are both finishers….Or an extra 1500ish damage un might climbed as I disengage, extra 2 seconds of chill….

The weapon has synergy. It’s quite good.

Skirmishers shouldn’t self cc. remove the self rooting.

Don’t break my longbow please…

Specific Game Mode
PvX

Proposal Overview
Switching spirits to new class mechanic.

Goal of Proposal
Give rangers more easy access to group buffs, open up build diversity and getting rid of forced pet.

Proposal Functionality
So simple switch spirits to be ranger new class mechanic and make pets minions like guardians spirit weapons and necros minions. This way thous wishing to be BM can still do that and might be even stronger than at the moment, but thous that don’t want relay on pet to deal part of they damage don’t have to. Ranger all so get better access to abilities to buff party and still build in things like signets, survival skills and traps. This system would be still matching whit class description and devs vision of the class, as ranger would still have full traitline for pets only. Switch like this would still keep ranger class mechanic unique.

Associated Risks
Three pet might be op, but they damage can be tuned down. Might need some minor changes on spirit so they would be at level whit other class mechanics. Sure change like this all so cause changes in builds class use and some people might not be really happy not having pet as class mechanic, but i think majority would be happy.

Not very polished idea but just something that poped on my head.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

Here’s what I would like to see done to signets.

Signet changes in 5 steps:

1. Signet passive effects affect both ranger and pet, active effects ranger only.
2. Signet of the Beastmaster merged with Signet Mastery. New effect:
   • Signet of the Beastmaster: Signets recharge 20% faster. Active effects of signets also affect your pets.
3. Beastmaster’s Might gets a more supporting role by granting might to nearby allies on signet activation (3 stacks for 15s / 600 radius).
4. New grandmaster trait to replace old SotB. New trait:
   • Primal Echoes: Active effects of signets also affect nearby allies. (Signet actives are (PvE: 50%, PvP: 33%) as effective on allies / 360 radius)
5. Few signet active effects need to be reworked.
   1. Signet of the Wild (active): Enlargement effect is removed and activation time reduced to 1/4s. Grants stability (8s) and breaks stun. 60s cd.
   2. Signet of Renewal (active): Removes all conditions from yourself (not from nearby allies) instead of transferring them to your pet. 60s cd.
   3. Signet of the Hunt (PvP active): Damage bonus changed to +30%.

If anyone is wondering about those percentages, this is what I was aiming for .

Primal Echoes (PvE) + Signet of the Hunt (PvE) = 25% damage bonus to allies.
Primal Echoes (PvP) + Signet of the Hunt (PvP) = 10% damage bonus to allies.

No idea how these changes would affect the current balance, though.

I have a very bad feeling about this CDI thread.
I think those devs whos know what to do cant do that and those whos can do something dont know what to do

So we get red posts woohoo! Unfortunately they are about signets and shouts, and “something we’ve been thinking about”.

-Stow pets is something we’ve been thinking about.
-Power for the ranger and not the party (let everyone else support it’s time to be selfish)

It’s apparent that Anet didn’t want this discussion about the ranger, but since we’ve had it, I hope you make power rangers happy with some nice changes.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Darksteel.8412:

In my honest opinion…the ranger doesn’t need any buffs at all, in general it’s pve player that complains about the ranger… but that’s only due to tunnelvision. in pvp/wvw the ranger is a very good class, and has some if not one the best condi removal traits in game and is quite capable of soloing any class. It might not be a toptier pve class…but it’s up to par with the so called toptier classes in pvp/wvw….imo stop the crying and play a little better

Not sure if this is a troll or not…
Seriously the existence of this thread alone is a predictor of how bad this class is. You will hardly find anyone that shares your opinion.

If he’s not a troll I have the feeling he’s talking only about ranger spirit build for what concern PvP, which is a great build indeed (but we don’t have to forget that it is the ONLY reliable build you can use without beeing outshined by warriors/necros/burst eles/thieves/engis/mesmers/dps guardians)

When he talks about WvW….honestly I don’t know what specific situation or build he is referring to. You can go with any build in WvW but Ranger will still be weaker ad less useful in general compared to almost every other class.

…….

Why am I continuing to read about Rangers wanting Traps moved out of the Skirmishing Line?

Precision is not a bad stat for Traps, Crit Damage is..But then again, I’m not basing my spec off what Stats the line actually gets, I’m basing it off the traits…

Every time I see a Ranger say something like “Traps don’t belong in Skirmishing, they should be in Wilderness Survival” I facepalm because it shows what a complete lack of understanding a lot of Rangers have about the class.

If you move the Trap traits to Wilderness, You’re just going to nerf yourself, Because its a line you’re going to pick up anyway if you’re a Trap Ranger..Because it has all your bloody defensive traits… The only thing moving those traits will do, Is make it so you lose all your defensive traits picking up Trap Traits..

There is also nothing in the other lines that you could remotely pickup that would be as good as those defensive traits that you’d be losing..NOTHING…There is nothing in Marksman, nothing in Natures, Nothing in Beast…NOTHING….

So please for the love of god, quit making silly suggestions like that..

Specific Game Mode
PvX

Proposal Overview
Opening strike improvement+boon removal

Goal of Proposal
The proposal is aimed to address one problem power ranger (pun not intended) have, which is the inability to deal with enemy boons.

Proposal Functionality
We start reworking the minor traits of the Marksmanship traitline:

• Opening strike: changed to “You and your pet cause vulnerability with your first hit when entering combat”. Basically merged with the Master Tier trait.

• Precise Strike(Master): “Opening strike always critical hits”. Same funcionality of the actual grandmaster trait.

• Alpha Training(find a more suitable name if you wish): changed to “Regain opening strike when you kill a foe or gain stealth”. We take the functionality of Remorsless (Grandmaster major trait)

Then we rework Remorsless

• Remorsless: Opening strike remove(or steal or corrupt) a boon.

Alternative

• Alpha Training: “Opening Strike remove a boon”.

Remorsless is left unchanged.

Associated Risks
I don’ see condi build going deep into a power traitline just to use this trait, maybe there are some problem with pigs but there is still counterplay because enemies can pick up the foraged weapon.

What’s a ranger? Never heard, never seen.

/trolloff

Specific Game Mode:

PvX

Proposal Overview:

Added reliable pet damage and survivability.

Goal of Proposal:

Counteract the server-side issues pets face and quality of life issues.

Proposal Functionality:

1. Give melee pets an instant 300 or 600 range homing auto-attack that fires off when they’re trying to get into melee. It’d do less than their melee damage but comparable to ranged pets. There’d be no animation to interrupt them chasing their target, or at the very least an animation that doesn’t stop them in place.
2. Bake in traits and skills that affect pets to help them out, such as increased toughness, health regen and movement speed.
3. If your pet takes a hit more than X% HP damage that causes their death, the cooldown on pet swap is reduced. Or causes them to resurrect after so many seconds. This is mainly aimed at PvE mob damage where the percentage of HP would be tuned where it’s not something players would assumably be able to deal in one hit.
4. If pet takes X% HP damage in Y seconds:
- If it causes death, pet swap reduced or resurrected soon after.
- Restore a chunk of HP to pet on a cooldown.
- Highly reduce any damage pet takes below a certain HP threshold. Kind of exists already with Bark Skin, though this version could have a cooldown on the effect with a higher damage reduction.

Associated Risks:

1. Nothing major as the numbers can be tweaked and it’s still an attack that could be dodged if a player wanted.
2. Could make pets too strong and annoying to deal with in PvP if not done correctly.
3. Still wouldn’t solve when pets take rapid fire hits in PvE or WvW that quickly destroy them. Pet skill cooldowns would have to be retained upon death ticking down through to swap/revival else they could be spammed quickly with repeated deaths.
4. Similar to 2’s drawback.

Terravos.4059:

…….

Why am I continuing to read about Rangers wanting Traps moved out of the Skirmishing Line?

Precision is not a bad stat for Traps, Crit Damage is..But then again, I’m not basing my spec off what Stats the line actually gets, I’m basing it off the traits…

Every time I see a Ranger say something like “Traps don’t belong in Skirmishing, they should be in Wilderness Survival” I facepalm because it shows what a complete lack of understanding a lot of Rangers have about the class.

If you move the Trap traits to Wilderness, You’re just going to nerf yourself, Because its a line you’re going to pick up anyway if you’re a Trap Ranger..Because it has all your bloody defensive traits… The only thing moving those traits will do, Is make it so you lose all your defensive traits picking up Trap Traits..

There is also nothing in the other lines that you could remotely pickup that would be as good as those defensive traits that you’d be losing..NOTHING…There is nothing in Marksman, nothing in Natures, Nothing in Beast…NOTHING….

So please for the love of god, quit making silly suggestions like that..

Traps in skirmishing should have a better direct damage option.
And most of the suggestions I saw about those traits was to move them in the condi duration line (though I don’t see traps in marksmanship in a thematic view) or to move the condi duration or condi damage to skirmishing (not saying it all makes sense, just saying there is not just one proposal about those traits).
I would personally like to have them deal more direct damage (and have increased ranged), but I know this would mean lowering their base condi-damage, thus might not be a good thing overall for condi-build. And they would still not be so good in direct damages builds, because of their conditions.

But, if they were in the condi duration branch, one would only need to go get 20% more condi duration to have the traited versions be correct control options in zergs…

Your statement “Precision is not a bad stat for Traps, Crit Damage is.” is interesting, but I really don’t see how precision works with traps? None of these two stats do anaything for traps, as far as I know…

Terravos.4059:

…….

Why am I continuing to read about Rangers wanting Traps moved out of the Skirmishing Line?

Precision is not a bad stat for Traps, Crit Damage is..But then again, I’m not basing my spec off what Stats the line actually gets, I’m basing it off the traits…

Every time I see a Ranger say something like “Traps don’t belong in Skirmishing, they should be in Wilderness Survival” I facepalm because it shows what a complete lack of understanding a lot of Rangers have about the class.

If you move the Trap traits to Wilderness, You’re just going to nerf yourself, Because its a line you’re going to pick up anyway if you’re a Trap Ranger..Because it has all your bloody defensive traits… The only thing moving those traits will do, Is make it so you lose all your defensive traits picking up Trap Traits..

There is also nothing in the other lines that you could remotely pickup that would be as good as those defensive traits that you’d be losing..NOTHING…There is nothing in Marksman, nothing in Natures, Nothing in Beast…NOTHING….

So please for the love of god, quit making silly suggestions like that..

Agree with this 100%. People that are advocating moving trap traits into Wilderness Survival are advocating to kill trap builds.

The only way to move the traits into WS and still allow trap builds to come out ok would require adding a new reliable condition cleanse (that is not a utility skill) and good defensive traits into other trait lines.

Now moving stats and/or trait lines around so that the traps would benefit from either condition duration or condition damage is a better suggestion IMO. Personally, I think that Skirmishing should be moved to the top trait line (Power, Condi Duration), and Marksmanship should be moved to the second trait line while keeping Precision and Ferocity paired together.

Jocksy.3415:

Your statement “Precision is not a bad stat for Traps, Crit Damage is.” is interesting, but I really don’t see how precision works with traps? None of these two stats do anaything for traps, as far as I know…

Traps can crit, which in turns means they can proc On-Crit effects, and since the Bleed On Crit trait is very handily in the same traitline as the trap traits, along with the Precision stat, it becones of the very few ranger trait setups which actually synergise together well, because suddenly with 1-2 traps pulsing, you attacking (probably with Sigil of Earth and often times a SB) you can lay down 10+ bleeds pretty much out of nowhere on rediclously low CD, not to mention the potential AoE element of the on-crit bleeds.

I’ve used pretty much every trap build I can concieve with dire, carrion, rabid, celestial, even apothecary for a bit, and for me nothing comes close to a rabid or celestial setup, because those on-crits are where its at.

Yeah, Precision is good with AoE… more hits per second means more crits per second which means reliably triggering on-crit effects.