Guild Wars 2

Protoavis.9107:

Sauzo.6821:

Protoavis.9107:

arkealia.2713:

People don’t understand that as soon as anet will announce precursor crafting, the price of all mats involved to craft a legendary will explode. Meaning mostly T5, T6, ecto, cores and lodes.
A lot of things will be more expensive and your legendary won’t be any cheaper.

Those things are farmable (or farmable and promotable) and a significant portion of folk already have most mats apart from the precursor.

There’d be an increase but it’ll go along with an increase of farming.

T6 mats being “farmable” is debatable. Sure you can kill the same mobs in the same zone for an hour till DR kicks in and if you are lucky, you will get maybe 10 of those mats except you need 250 of 8 different mats…..

As for being promotable, sure it is but do you really think the T5 mats won’t double or triple in price considering that everyone knows they are promotable. Not to mention that now everyone is making precursors so the demand for those mats will outweigh the supply since the FG train and Queensdale trains are pretty much dead now.

As for most people already having those mats, I’m sure they do. That wouldn’t effect them really but any newer people would be screwed just like people who have everything but a precursor now. So in effect, someone is getting screwed and the forums QQ will just continue.

And as for an increase in farming those T5 and T6 mats, people already cry about having to farm gold to buy precursors now. Imagine having to farm 2000 T6 mats or a LOT more T5 mats. And the worst part is at least when you are farming gold you can do all aspects of the game. Trying to farm a specific T6 mat requires you to kill a certain class of mobs which I don’t about you but I have killed specific mobs for achievements like 1000 minotaurs and my god that was boring.

Like I’ve said before and others have said, making precursors craftable is NOT going to make it cheaper overall to make a legendary. If anything, I imagine it making more as now you will have the hefty boost to T5 and T6 mat cost plus ectos and I’m sure crafting a precursor isn’t gonna be free. I figure it will be about 500g to just craft a precursor. I’m sure you will need 500 in one or more craft professions.

Re-read what I said “(or farmable and promotable)”

you’re thinking about it wrong but have all the right info available.

T5 mats are excessively farmable, it’s well documented on the wiki what mobs drop with T5 mat, these mobs are in many zones that you’d really only encounter DR if you chose to or are just unaware. Play kittenomeone who recently (4 days maybe) sold all my (fine crafting) mats I’m sitting on average of 12 of each t6 mat, none are bought, I pretty much just do world boss, dungeons and karma train EoTM, during the week I’ll be online an hour or two each night most nights and 4 or so on weekends…given how many I have for the time played, not really something to complain about….that’s under 3 months from just drops.

(I have all slayer achievements apart from giant, I did them as part of the daily kill achievement….just because you can do it all in 1 go, and possibly bore your brains out, doesn’t mean you have to do it all in 1 go, it’s not a race, the mobs aren’t getting rare, they don’t cost you anything to kill, they aren’t doubling in TP cost every couple of months….)

precursor crafting could (depending on how it’s handled) make legendary crafting significantly cheaper for some players….players that aren’t impatient. The biggest hurdle to legendaries are the precursors due to the rarity and ever climbing price point, they aren’t farmable at all, rely entirely on RNG unlike t5 and t6 mats. To make the argument that a precursor is the equivalent to acquire the 250 of the 8 T6 mats is silly, they aren’t comparable, if it were it’d have 0 t6 mats from not actively going for them. Sure the impatient people will likely see no real difference in cost because they’re buying everything from the TP but that isn’t everyone that’s playing.

It may not be everyone, but realistically, how many people do you think would benefit from precursor crafting vs the current system, and how many people would lose out? This game has so many players. Many more than the people who appear to be legitimately upset by the lack of precursor crafting, I’m sure. People can talk all day about a bunch of different ways to implement it, how to mitigate damage to the economy, and make it as fair as possible for everyone, but in the end, if most players don’t mind the way things are, ANet has much more important things to be doing than redesigning an existing system that works as intended and could potentially wreck the economy if changed.

That said… yeah, so the new back piece scavenger hunt… hmm.

@Protoavis
Actually you can compare T6 mats to a precursor. On average you can put a buy order for a precursor for 1000g more or less and get one. 250 of all 8 T6 mats on an average cost of 50s each(some more like bloods and some less like totems) and it would cost you 1000g. The only difference is that for the precursor, you need to put all that money up front at one time. With the T6 mats, you can buy a few here and there.

As for promoting them, it’s not really worth it anymore since pretty much everyone who wanted to flip some cash would buy tons of T5 mats for cheap and promote them so now, you might save a few silver here and there but overall, not much. That’s what I did with lodestones when I made Incinerator, Meteorlogicus and Sunrise. I just bought cores and promoted them. At the start it was a good savings but near the end, I think I figured out I was saving around 5-10 silver each.

I made 6 legendaries. Juggernaut, Sunrise, Meteorlogicus, Incinerator, The Dreamer, Kudzu and I bought every one of those precursors without TP flipping or whipping out the credit card. Granted I bought most during the karka queen event(Kudzu for 99g) and bought some others when they were cheaper, Colossus for 300g and dawn for 350g but regardless, I just grinded and saved cash. I understand peoples frustration with precursors but it is a fine line for balance and also to not bottleneck the process somewhere else.

Here are my attempts at precursors:

300 rare long bows & 12 exotics – leaf of Kudzu
300 rare hammers & 30 exotics – nothing
300 rare short bows & 24 exotics – nothing
230 rare great swords – 2 x dusk, within four minutes of one another (and no, I did not think to take a screenshot).
500 rare staffs & approximately 28 exotics – nothing.

Precursors are available, even if very random. To throw all the above in the mystic forge cost me around $1800 gold (approx). Only had the money to do so because I sold all three precursors. Although I should have kept one of the dusks.

Sauzo.6821:

@Protoavis
Actually you can compare T6 mats to a precursor. On average you can put a buy order for a precursor for 1000g more or less and get one. 250 of all 8 T6 mats on an average cost of 50s each(some more like bloods and some less like totems) and it would cost you 1000g. The only difference is that for the precursor, you need to put all that money up front at one time. With the T6 mats, you can buy a few here and there.

As for promoting them, it’s not really worth it anymore since pretty much everyone who wanted to flip some cash would buy tons of T5 mats for cheap and promote them so now, you might save a few silver here and there but overall, not much. That’s what I did with lodestones when I made Incinerator, Meteorlogicus and Sunrise. I just bought cores and promoted them. At the start it was a good savings but near the end, I think I figured out I was saving around 5-10 silver each.

If you’re promoting, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As-wCpIszrT9dFB3YjVUVFhfenlDUUpXTVBIdm5qWmc&usp=sharing#gid=12 is useful (Or search: egg baron skill points to gold).

With some materials, you’ll save money (right now, blood, bone, and dust — more than the spreadsheet indicates, since you don’t pay the 15% listing fee which it includes to sell the resulting T6 mat). The rest are not worth it (probably because the T5 mats are used by some of the current time-gated crafting for the LS backpiece).

If you’re looking to minimize cost and not looking into alternate ways to turn skill points into gold, then promotion is very helpful; it’s still useful for most of the lodestone promotions (right now all except glacial, crystal, and putrid) … though again, there may be other ways of changing skill points to gold which give more gold.

Protoavis.9107:

arkealia.2713:

People don’t understand that as soon as anet will announce precursor crafting, the price of all mats involved to craft a legendary will explode. Meaning mostly T5, T6, ecto, cores and lodes.
A lot of things will be more expensive and your legendary won’t be any cheaper.

Those things are farmable (or farmable and promotable) and a significant portion of folk already have most mats apart from the precursor.

There’d be an increase but it’ll go along with an increase of farming.

So you have no problem with driving up prices for all these items for the entire player base as long as you get your alternate access to a Precursor? My indifference toward those whining for this alternate method just swerved toward contempt…..

Brother Grimm.5176:

Protoavis.9107:

arkealia.2713:

People don’t understand that as soon as anet will announce precursor crafting, the price of all mats involved to craft a legendary will explode. Meaning mostly T5, T6, ecto, cores and lodes.
A lot of things will be more expensive and your legendary won’t be any cheaper.

Those things are farmable (or farmable and promotable) and a significant portion of folk already have most mats apart from the precursor.

There’d be an increase but it’ll go along with an increase of farming.

So you have no problem with driving up prices for all these items for the entire player base as long as you get your alternate access to a Precursor? My indifference toward those whining for this alternate method just swerved toward contempt…..

Comprehension fail, well done. Re-read what was said because the conclusion you reached is far away from what was said.

Sauzo.6821:

@Protoavis
Actually you can compare T6 mats to a precursor. On average you can put a buy order for a precursor for 1000g more or less and get one. 250 of all 8 T6 mats on an average cost of 50s each(some more like bloods and some less like totems) and it would cost you 1000g. The only difference is that for the precursor, you need to put all that money up front at one time. With the T6 mats, you can buy a few here and there.

As for promoting them, it’s not really worth it anymore since pretty much everyone who wanted to flip some cash would buy tons of T5 mats for cheap and promote them so now, you might save a few silver here and there but overall, not much. That’s what I did with lodestones when I made Incinerator, Meteorlogicus and Sunrise. I just bought cores and promoted them. At the start it was a good savings but near the end, I think I figured out I was saving around 5-10 silver each.

I made 6 legendaries. Juggernaut, Sunrise, Meteorlogicus, Incinerator, The Dreamer, Kudzu and I bought every one of those precursors without TP flipping or whipping out the credit card. Granted I bought most during the karka queen event(Kudzu for 99g) and bought some others when they were cheaper, Colossus for 300g and dawn for 350g but regardless, I just grinded and saved cash. I understand peoples frustration with precursors but it is a fine line for balance and also to not bottleneck the process somewhere else.

Considering nothing I said suggests buying from the TP, cause everything I said was about your own drops….I’m seeing irrelevant arguments being made. It’s still more sensible to promote your T5 drops (T5 being highly farmable) due to listing fees and selling taxes (and well there’s still a lot of things that are worth buying and promoting but it fluctuates, none of which is relevant here though). Point is the T6 requirement you can steadily acquire through fairly normal gameplay at lvl 80 (champ boxes) or farm at (specific mobs, promotion) this cant be said for precursor you either be lucky (no control, not remotely predictable like mat farming, odds that are just ultimately abysmal and anyone holding out for that is well barking up the wrong tree) or buy from the TP which is constantly in a state of increase….there’s no alternative to acquire unlike t6 mats which have half a dozen methods of acquirement, the majority of which rely on you and your actions alone, only 1 of them rely on other players….it’s comparable unless you’re being intentionally obtuse.

750 staff (roughly 700g) into the mystic forge tonight – 46 exotic’s back, with one of them being the legend. Received the legend at about the 600 staff mark (into the forge). 3 precursor weapons out of the mystic forge in 24 hours.
Keep trying & you’ll get one or more.

500 swords & zap on the same night & tooth of frostfang plus the hunter.

This time a screenshot provided.

Protoavis.9107:

Comprehension fail, well done. Re-read what was said because the conclusion you reached is far away from what was said.

I re-read it and I still get the fact that you don’t seem to CARE what effect your request would have on the entire player base. The fact that the materials CAN be farmed in no way mitigates the fact that there would be a DRASTIC spike in Mat prices and a nearly guaranteed long term increase from the current equilibrium prices. You seem to think the entire focus is on YOU or others that want a Precursor would be able to get the materials one way or another and kitten the rest of the game…

….thus my contempt.

There is no easy solution for this problem, they better leave this precursors as it is and when they make new legendaries try to change the way the new ones is acquired.

Protoavis.9107:

Considering nothing I said suggests buying from the TP, cause everything I said was about your own drops….I’m seeing irrelevant arguments being made. It’s still more sensible to promote your T5 drops (T5 being highly farmable) due to listing fees and selling taxes (and well there’s still a lot of things that are worth buying and promoting but it fluctuates, none of which is relevant here though). Point is the T6 requirement you can steadily acquire through fairly normal gameplay at lvl 80 (champ boxes) or farm at (specific mobs, promotion) this cant be said for precursor you either be lucky (no control, not remotely predictable like mat farming, odds that are just ultimately abysmal and anyone holding out for that is well barking up the wrong tree) or buy from the TP which is constantly in a state of increase….there’s no alternative to acquire unlike t6 mats which have half a dozen methods of acquirement, the majority of which rely on you and your actions alone, only 1 of them rely on other players….it’s comparable unless you’re being intentionally obtuse.

So if farming T5 mats and promoting them and getting T6 mats from champ boxes etc is so easy and highly farmable, why not just farm that and sell it all on TP and use the gold to buy a precursor. Then just farm all the mats over again since you are saying its highly farmable and making it sound easy. Problem solved.

And yes you can still steadily acquire a precursor through normal play too. You save gold as you play and in a few months, you can buy one.

I also wouldn’t call farming T6 mats predictable as you still are left to RNG over what drops so you could kill 10 mobs and get 10 of X T6 mat or you can kill 10 mobs and get 0 of X T6 mat.

And the majority of acquiring a precursor does depend on you, you need to farm the gold or craft and gamble to MF. Sure if you buy one on the TP, you are indirectly depending on someone else but come on, the bottom line is unless you are farming all the mats and crafting all the rares and throwing them all in the MF, you are gonna be depending on someone at some point.

To me, it just sounds like you want a guaranteed way to get a precursor and there is one as I mentioned above. Hell there is an even easier way if I listen to you about how highly farmable T5 mats are and how much the prices are rising already. Hell just skip dungeons and everything and just farm T5 mats all day and promote them and sell them. Would be able to buy a precursor pretty quick it sounds like.

Unfortunately we can’t get everything we want so it boils down to either suck it up and acquire it the way Anet is offering it or forget a legendary and move on. Simple as that really. Or I guess the third method is post on the forums here and then realize that anything about precursors just falls on deaf ears. Regardless, good luck on whatever way you go.

johnnymiller.5968:

750 staff (roughly 700g) into the mystic forge tonight – 46 exotic’s back, with one of them being the legend. Received the legend at about the 600 staff mark (into the forge). 3 precursor weapons out of the mystic forge in 24 hours.
Keep trying & you’ll get one or more.

500 swords & zap on the same night & tooth of frostfang plus the hunter.

This time a screenshot provided.

Grats on the nice chunk of change there. I just cant bring myself to gamble to MF. I gambled about 100g back in the day when the expensive precursors were about 300-400g and got nothing and felt screwed. It wasn’t much but I figured I’d just go the guaranteed route and save gold.

I would not gamble for a precursor if this is the first legendary you make. Best to do dungeons save all of the rares from your dungeons run. Then make attempts once your bank is full. Easy to see why precursors are price so high with how rare they are. Save for the precursor first, get of the rest of the mats later. I tell people this but some do not listen and end up saving the hardest part for last :P. Now they are upset that the rarest items in the game have increased in price.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Protoavis.9107:

Comprehension fail, well done. Re-read what was said because the conclusion you reached is far away from what was said.

I re-read it and I still get the fact that you don’t seem to CARE what effect your request would have on the entire player base. The fact that the materials CAN be farmed in no way mitigates the fact that there would be a DRASTIC spike in Mat prices and a nearly guaranteed long term increase from the current equilibrium prices. You seem to think the entire focus is on YOU or others that want a Precursor would be able to get the materials one way or another and kitten the rest of the game…

….thus my contempt.

You are aware that the t5 and t6 price hike of recent directly relates to the MF change (increasing the variance of results to include sub lvl 80 exotics, increasing the cost of every MF since the few exotics returned now offset the initial cost far less) which also resulted in the doubling on precursor prices right? (ie the minimal chance of the precursor combined with the now significantly reduced potential returns caused by the MF change…think about that for awhile and what would happen if flushing mats down the toilet for a miniscule chance of a precursor wasn’t pretty much the required method for generating precursors…) There’s a bigger picture you’ve not bothered to look at. At current estimates by folk who do mass MF…each precursor is requiring many thousands of t5 mats rather than the stack or two you seem scared of…

Sauzo.6821:

So if farming T5 mats and promoting them and getting T6 mats from champ boxes etc is so easy and highly farmable, why not just farm that and sell it all on TP and use the gold to buy a precursor. Then just farm all the mats over again since you are saying its highly farmable and making it sound easy. Problem solved.

Serious question, what part of one method being entirely relied upon by OTHER PLAYERS versus relied upon YOURSELF are you finding impossible to grasp? It seems a very straight forward concept but you seem to either ignore it fail to understand it.

With the only option being to rely on others who are ultimately relying on RNG that’s skewed in a way to not be favorable.

Either way t5 and t6 mats are acquireable by everyone through regular play or intentional play FROM THE GAME. This isn’t the case with precursors since even people intentionally going for them have been known to flush 1000’s of g and come up with nothing leaving the only option to get them from SOMEONE ELSE rather than from the game which high lights an obvious flaw in the game (ie, if even when intentionally working towards it, you may never actually get it FROM THE GAME rather than from SOMEONE ELSE).

Alternatives aren’t the devil.

The drop rate of t5 and t6 mats is largely consistent and readily acquirable by players (especially since pretty much every champ bag will drop at least a t5 mat) the same can’t be said about precursors since there are many many many many players who have been playing since head start and never had a precursor drop…the drop rate of those are unreliable to a majority of players, meaning the ONLY acquisition is dependent on someone else, someone else who can keep moving the bar on a whim….this also doesn’t happen with mats since they are consistent.

I dunno why people immediately assume that being against the forced reliance on others some how means that I want precursors, as it stands my main account can outright buy 7 eternities…tp flipping at it’s finest.

Sauzo.6821:

And the majority of acquiring a precursor does depend on you, you need to farm the gold or craft and gamble to MF. Sure if you buy one on the TP, you are indirectly depending on someone else but come on, the bottom line is unless you are farming all the mats and crafting all the rares and throwing them all in the MF, you are gonna be depending on someone at some point.

Point is, it’s an option, you don’t need to go near the tp or the mystic forge….you will with the precursor unless you’re extremely lucky considering there are people who’ve played every day for the last 2 years and still never have had a precursor appear. There’s a very obvious lack of options to acquire for one of those things and a plethora of options for the other. I really don’t get these people of the stance that more options equal bad, particularly in a game that used the slogan “play how you want” which you know suggests options….

Protoavis.9107:

You are aware that the t5 and t6 price hike of recent directly relates to the MF change (increasing the variance of results to include sub lvl 80 exotics, increasing the cost of every MF since the few exotics returned now offset the initial cost far less) which also resulted in the doubling on precursor prices right? (ie the minimal chance of the precursor combined with the now significantly reduced potential returns caused by the MF change…think about that for awhile and what would happen if flushing mats down the toilet for a miniscule chance of a precursor wasn’t pretty much the required method for generating precursors…) There’s a bigger picture you’ve not bothered to look at. At current estimates by folk who do mass MF…each precursor is requiring many thousands of t5 mats rather than the stack or two you seem scared of……

I’m not scared….I’m incensed at your attitude that wrecking the T5 and T6 market FURTHER is justified if you can get another method to obtain a Precursor.

Again….utter contempt.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Protoavis.9107:

You are aware that the t5 and t6 price hike of recent directly relates to the MF change (increasing the variance of results to include sub lvl 80 exotics, increasing the cost of every MF since the few exotics returned now offset the initial cost far less) which also resulted in the doubling on precursor prices right? (ie the minimal chance of the precursor combined with the now significantly reduced potential returns caused by the MF change…think about that for awhile and what would happen if flushing mats down the toilet for a miniscule chance of a precursor wasn’t pretty much the required method for generating precursors…) There’s a bigger picture you’ve not bothered to look at. At current estimates by folk who do mass MF…each precursor is requiring many thousands of t5 mats rather than the stack or two you seem scared of……

I’m not scared….I’m incensed at your attitude that wrecking the T5 and T6 market FURTHER is justified if you can get another method to obtain a Precursor.

Again….utter contempt.

So needing several hundred t5 mats for a precursor vs the several 10’s of thousands that are currently required….wooow super smart there.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Protoavis.9107:

You are aware that the t5 and t6 price hike of recent directly relates to the MF change (increasing the variance of results to include sub lvl 80 exotics, increasing the cost of every MF since the few exotics returned now offset the initial cost far less) which also resulted in the doubling on precursor prices right? (ie the minimal chance of the precursor combined with the now significantly reduced potential returns caused by the MF change…think about that for awhile and what would happen if flushing mats down the toilet for a miniscule chance of a precursor wasn’t pretty much the required method for generating precursors…) There’s a bigger picture you’ve not bothered to look at. At current estimates by folk who do mass MF…each precursor is requiring many thousands of t5 mats rather than the stack or two you seem scared of……

I’m not scared….I’m incensed at your attitude that wrecking the T5 and T6 market FURTHER is justified if you can get another method to obtain a Precursor.

Again….utter contempt.

Your contempt sounds pretty much unjustified, since there are lots of ways to implement this, some of which would not create any spike in material costs.

And even if there was a spike or an increase in equilibrium price, it would not be obviously bad for the average player (who both receives and uses T5s and T6s — being able to sell your drops for a higher price is a benefit for those who don’t want them).

@ Protoavis
And again, there is another way to get a precursor which doesn’t rely on others, use the MF. My question is why do you keep comparing precursors to T5 and T6 mats? They are 2 completely different things.

And as for depending on others who can raise the prices at a whim. You do realize that the prices are pretty much set by the players. If I put a precursor up for 5000g, that is not the price of them. The true price is what a player will pay for it. So if you are really upset about the price, blame the people who pay 1200g for a precursor.

And if you have around 28000g, then I cant see the reasoning behind your arguments about precursors unless you are just trolling or arguing for the sake of argument.

Like I said, I’m not really sure what you are asking. I mean you say you got around 28000g yet are complaining about precursors. Do you want some quest or crafting way to make them? If so, are you expecting this quest or crafting to take a day or two to finish and only cost you a few hours in time? I mean I wouldn’t mind a craftable or quest for precursors but I would want it to take 4-6 months to complete it to make it feel something like a quest(used very loosely). In that case, it would be on par with about the timeframe it would take to farm gold to just buy one. As for your arguments now, I have pretty much lost the point of it.

Oh and you do realize that the biggest reason precursors went up in price was because of the wardrobe feature and changing them to acct bound vs soulbound right. You can now make a legendary and slap that skin or weapon onto any character. That is the reason behind why precursors doubled. Your reasoning of T5 and T6 and MF and exos might have precursors slightly but not enough that would break the bank.

Sauzo.6821:

@ Protoavis
And again, there is another way to get a precursor which doesn’t rely on others, use the MF. My question is why do you keep comparing precursors to T5 and T6 mats? They are 2 completely different things.

The relationship between T5 mats and precursors is that you use T5 mats to craft rare weapons which you then throw into the MF to try to get a precursor. I don’t have JS’s data, but I do think that this use of T5 mats is the main sink, and without that as a sink T5 mats would become much cheaper (unless some other sink replaced the current sink).

Sauzo.6821:

Oh and you do realize that the biggest reason precursors went up in price was because of the wardrobe feature and changing them to acct bound vs soulbound right. You can now make a legendary and slap that skin or weapon onto any character. That is the reason behind why precursors doubled. Your reasoning of T5 and T6 and MF and exos might have precursors slightly but not enough that would break the bank.

I thought Protoavis’ point was clearly that the increase in precursor prices caused T5 prices to increase.

arkealia.2713:

People don’t understand that as soon as anet will announce precursor crafting, the price of all mats involved to craft a legendary will explode. Meaning mostly T5, T6, ecto, cores and lodes.
A lot of things will be more expensive and your legendary won’t be any cheaper.

Except that there are other ways to get most of those things easily (world bosses give you tons of ecto, just about everything drops t5 mats and a good bit of t6 as well, plus you can buy fine mats with laurels.). Only lodestones would really be an issue, and Anet is way overdue to give us reliable sources of those anyway.

The number of ways to get things easily isn’t a factor on the demand for legendaries once precursor crafting is implemented.

Perhaps this has been brought up but whatever the mechanics of the crafting, the ‘cost’ to craft will likely be inline with the cost of current precursors. Anet is still going to want people to work a similar amount to make legendaries.

Sauzo.6821:

Oh and you do realize that the biggest reason precursors went up in price was because of the wardrobe feature and changing them to acct bound vs soulbound right. You can now make a legendary and slap that skin or weapon onto any character. That is the reason behind why precursors doubled. Your reasoning of T5 and T6 and MF and exos might have precursors slightly but not enough that would break the bank.

Iinuxotaku.4731:

I thought Protoavis’ point was clearly that the increase in precursor prices caused T5 prices to increase.

Well I re-read the post and from what I gathered, Protoavis is saying that the change in the way the MF works with returning exos something something tesulted in doubling of the price of precursors which if that is what he meant, then it is wrong. Precursors doubled because of the wardrobe feature coupled with the change of legendaries from soulbound to acct bound. You can go to gw2spidy or any other site that tracks prices and see that the HUGE jump occurred then. of course you still have the small steady increase no matter what.

As for T5 prices going up, I attribute that to wardrobe and acct bound changes to legendaries as well since now it makes a lot more people want to make legendaries which in turn raises the demand and price for T6 mats as well as T5 mats used to promote to T6 mats.

Obtena.7952:

The number of ways to get things easily isn’t a factor on the demand for legendaries once precursor crafting is implemented.

Perhaps this has been brought up but whatever the mechanics of the crafting, the ‘cost’ to craft will likely be inline with the cost of current precursors. Anet is still going to want people to work a similar amount to make legendaries.

OMG someone who understands what I have been trying to say in I don’t know how many posts!!! Anet is not going to make some easy and cheap way to get a precursor after 2 years of letting precursors climb to such a high price tag. Can you imagine the forums if they made precursor cost like 100g to make? The whole freakin economy would explode. You would have 2g ectos and 3g T6 mats. You would have all the precursors on the TP being pulled and overall, just chaos. There is no way Anet would want to deal with the repercussions from something like that. If they implement crafting, it will be at least 500g in my opinion and probably more.

I think the main point is that if it was easy to get a precursor, no one would be able to afford the other mats needed to craft a legendary because so many people would be in the market trying to make one. It’s a zero sum game. SOME aspect of the legendary making process has to be ‘hard’. It will simply shift from precursor to mats … and that’s a worse situation than we have now. Actually, the current situation is the best one:

Precursor is hard because it’s not an ingredient for any other crafting recipe except Legendary. Ascended is a substitute for a Legendary. Frankly, I don’t see any way this could change without having a massive negative impact to the game. Therefore, even if precursor crafting, precursor will still be very hard to get.

I still think they should implement precursor crafting, but the process will be the culmination of everything that is ‘bad’ about crafting; time gates, cost, complexity, content farming for non-purchasable items. It’s going to make MF look good in comparison.

Bestest way at this point to just make all legendaries and precursors account bound, then increase the precursor drop rate. Make it so you can switch precursors through mystic forge recipes.

linuxotaku.4731:

Brother Grimm.5176:

Protoavis.9107:

You are aware that the t5 and t6 price hike of recent directly relates to the MF change (increasing the variance of results to include sub lvl 80 exotics, increasing the cost of every MF since the few exotics returned now offset the initial cost far less) which also resulted in the doubling on precursor prices right? (ie the minimal chance of the precursor combined with the now significantly reduced potential returns caused by the MF change…think about that for awhile and what would happen if flushing mats down the toilet for a miniscule chance of a precursor wasn’t pretty much the required method for generating precursors…) There’s a bigger picture you’ve not bothered to look at. At current estimates by folk who do mass MF…each precursor is requiring many thousands of t5 mats rather than the stack or two you seem scared of……

I’m not scared….I’m incensed at your attitude that wrecking the T5 and T6 market FURTHER is justified if you can get another method to obtain a Precursor.

Again….utter contempt.

Your contempt sounds pretty much unjustified, since there are lots of ways to implement this, some of which would not create any spike in material costs.

Did I say my contempt would include any methods that did the above? No. My contempt is that ONE poster here is suggesting that as long as HE (and others obsessed with obtaining a Legendary) can be provided another method to obtain a Precursor, the rest of us players that would suffer higher T5 & T6 prices do not matter…. His sole goal in this crusade is to kitten the torpedoes and get another method for Precursors into the game.

I have no problem with another method being put in place (and never have said that I was opposed to it) but that method needs to be a balanced approach that does not (further) wreck equilibrium prices of materials that are important to OTHER players outside the obsessive pursuit of a Legendary Weapon.

So needing several hundred t5 mats for a precursor vs the several 10’s of thousands that are currently required….wooow super smart there.

Would you PLEASE reply in complete ideas as your limited and snide wording (to appear clever and of a superior intelligence) is very unclear and makes you appear to be babbling…. You appear to still be arguing that adding Precursor crafting would NOT raise T5 and T6 prices….that’s quite “super smart”. If you agree that T5 and T6 prices will rise….but it’s justified to give you (and other players) another Precursor method, then that’s were my claim of contempt comes from.

I’m sure you’ll just toss out another vague 2 sentence sideways insult that doesn’t answer what I am attempting to clarify….because you are so clever….

Obtena.7952:

I think the main point is that if it was easy to get a precursor, no one would be able to afford the other mats needed to craft a legendary because so many people would be in the market trying to make one. It’s a zero sum game. SOME aspect of the legendary making process has to be ‘hard’. It will simply shift from precursor to mats … and that’s a worse situation than we have now. Actually, the current situation is the best one:

If you use T5/T6 mats as your example — part of why they’re expensive is precisely that they’re burned up in huge quantities in gambling for precursors. The reason legendaries and precursors went up in price is primarily that there value increased because the legendary is now a skin unlock rather than a weapon you can use on a single character — I certainly agree with that.

But saying that T5 material prices would spike ignores the fact that — if precursor crafting took over from the current mechanism, then we’d suddenly have a flood of these materials and prices would probably fall.

It takes on the order of 14k T5 mats to make then 2000 T6 mats via mystic forge promotion … 14k T5 mats would give fewer than 1000 rare inscriptions — I think this is a little less than the average expected cost of making a single precursor via mystic forge gambling. It’s more complicated than this — because not all rares used in the MF are forged, but conversely lots of T6 aren’t from T5 promotion … but my point is that unless legendary creation nearly doubled, the net demand for T5 materials might decrease … which would cause the price to fall. (There are other limiting factors — karma and gifts of exploration at the least.)

The details of how precursor crafting is implemented will determine what the effects are — it’s absolutely possible that it would cause demand shocks in some markets, and it might or might not be a net improvement (depending on the details). But I think the current system is bad enough that it’s worth trying to improve it.

Obtena.7952:

Precursor is hard because it’s not an ingredient for any other crafting recipe except Legendary. Ascended is a substitute for a Legendary. Frankly, I don’t see any way this could change without having a massive negative impact to the game. Therefore, even if precursor crafting, precursor will still be very hard to get.

I still think they should implement precursor crafting, but the process will be the culmination of everything that is ‘bad’ about crafting; time gates, cost, complexity, content farming for non-purchasable items. It’s going to make MF look good in comparison.

Well, I’ve gone the MF route, and it made me really unhappy with the game (despite successes, and luck which wasn’t great but was probably not too far from the expected average). I kind of enjoy complex crafting processes like those for ascended and LS items; I might be in the minority there, but it sounds like there will still be an alternative for people who don’t want to do this (buying the pre via the TP).

Sauzo.6821:

Obtena.7952:

The number of ways to get things easily isn’t a factor on the demand for legendaries once precursor crafting is implemented.

Perhaps this has been brought up but whatever the mechanics of the crafting, the ‘cost’ to craft will likely be inline with the cost of current precursors. Anet is still going to want people to work a similar amount to make legendaries.

OMG someone who understands what I have been trying to say in I don’t know how many posts!!! Anet is not going to make some easy and cheap way to get a precursor after 2 years of letting precursors climb to such a high price tag. Can you imagine the forums if they made precursor cost like 100g to make? The whole freakin economy would explode. You would have 2g ectos and 3g T6 mats. You would have all the precursors on the TP being pulled and overall, just chaos. There is no way Anet would want to deal with the repercussions from something like that. If they implement crafting, it will be at least 500g in my opinion and probably more.

Your numbers don’t make sense to me. Since the precursor is at most 1/2 – 1/3 of the cost (and often less), a spike in other materials shouldn’t (at least in a rational world) be more than 2x if precursors suddenly became 100g. And there’s reason to believe that there would be more ectos (since rares wouldn’t be thrown into the forge in such numbers) and more T5 materials for promotion to T6 (since fewer would be used for rares for precursor forging via MF gambling) …

Of course, precursor forging for 100g might well involve some of those materials; the way the markets are connected is certainly complicated.

linuxotaku.4731:

If you use T5/T6 mats as your example — part of why they’re expensive is precisely that they’re burned up in huge quantities in gambling for precursors. The reason legendaries and precursors went up in price is primarily that there value increased because the legendary is now a skin unlock rather than a weapon you can use on a single character — I certainly agree with that.

But saying that T5 material prices would spike ignores the fact that — if precursor crafting took over from the current mechanism, then we’d suddenly have a flood of these materials and prices would probably fall.

I’m not arguing T5 prices would spike; that argument is too weak and specific to be meaningful

I’m saying that if the influx of precursors into the game increases, so will the demand for mats to make legendaries. That would be bad because those mats are necessary for things other than legendaries, whereas keeping the barrier to legendary access on the precursor availability creates the most appropriate situation to alleviate shared mat demands.

People think that being able to craft a precursor is the answer for them getting a legendary … that’s simply based on the poor assumption that it will be cheaper/easier than simply buying one now. There is no evidence that this is true. Even if it is, what I predict will happen will still be the case … the mats will become the barrier in cost/time instead of the precursor … and moreso because the people will have a false sense that the ‘real’ barrier has been reduced enough to be able to get one. I think the reality is this:

If you can’t get a legendary now, you won’t be able to get a legendary later. The day Anet announce precursor crafting, buy all the T6 mats you can. It will make you a rich man.

I could certainly be wrong about the final prices of T5 & T6 stabilizing at a higher value (but I don’t think I am) but there is no WAY that the introduction of Precursor crafting does not SPIKE those prices for at least a few weeks….

The number of players that will RUSH toward forging a Legendary due to this (despite if it’s an insanely difficult, time-gated and expensive process) will make the rush after wardrobe introduction look minor.

Anet could introduce a “legendary crafting kit” in the gem store for a fixed number of gems containing account bound alternative components for converting a precursor to a legendary, much the way many recipes now have alternate versions. This would pin the real cost (dollars, euros, etc.) of a legendary to a relative stable value and allow them to introduce more precursors.

Fixing part of the legendary cost doesn’t fix the resulting increase in legendary demand without affecting all shared mat costs in a negative way. If anything, any crafting kit should provide you with partially completed aspects of the legendary that are not precursors. The last thing Anet should be doing it driving the cost and effort of a legendary away from the precursor, otherwise all your mat costs are going to be driven by people’s quest to get a legendary, not just the precursor.

‘http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjo8MklCiLI’
Guild Wars 2 Interview Part 1: General Game and Living World
skip to 5:30, they talk about precursor related solution ’’soon’’. So, it’s not coming with the new September feature pack. Sadly, still no precursor crafting. When Anet says ‘’soon’ it means that subject is in their list but not in the priority list. We have seen many examples of this. It seems like they are still trying to figure out how to put new changes with minimal negative impact on the economy. They are still yet to decide the best way to do this and it will probably be announced during mid-2015.

Although I would love to see a precursor crafting solution, I don’t see a good implementation path that wouldn’t put enormous pressure on T6 mats. And that would effect a lot more players than those just trying for a legendary. Every single exotic piece would be practically unaffordable to craft.
I have a sneaking suspicion that most of the delays we’ve seen towards this goal are caused by the inherent problem of implementing precursor crafting in such a way that won’t cause total havoc in the economy and the community.

I crafted bolt, which i think its probably one of the more expensive legendary weapons. Zap cost me 1200g, and it also calls for charged lodesones which are FAR more expensive than any other. I did it all in game, no real money. I really had fun in the process. I LIKED the grind.
I agree with the idea that legendarys should be difficult to get, whether that means time, gold, materials, whatever. Its a goal to shoot for, but only dedicated players should get it.
My thought of Pre crafting is go for it! Make it hard, let it drive up the T6 mat costs adn everything else. By driving up the mat costs it will STILL be hard to get, and so legendaries will still be a luxury type item. The advantage is if they do it right, it will be a more interesting and fun way to get a precurser vs the current methods.

Driving up those mats will affect other items that use them. If they were specific for legendary weapons only then I wouldn’t care. Unfortunately that’s not the case.

Infernia.9847:

Although I would love to see a precursor crafting solution, I don’t see a good implementation path that wouldn’t put enormous pressure on T6 mats.

If your crafting method doesn’t involve T5 fine mats, it’ll naturally take pressure off of T6 fine mats by reducing the demand for T5 for forging, freeing up that supply for promotion to T6.

Ensign.2189:

Infernia.9847:

Although I would love to see a precursor crafting solution, I don’t see a good implementation path that wouldn’t put enormous pressure on T6 mats.

If your crafting method doesn’t involve T5 fine mats, it’ll naturally take pressure off of T6 fine mats by reducing the demand for T5 for forging, freeing up that supply for promotion to T6.

If the crafting method increases the volume of precursors ingame, it WILL pressure T6 mats, even if the method doesn’t involve T5 mats.

@Brother Grimm

T5-T6 increase in prices is inevitable due to how long the market has been active. Changes are bound to destabilize it just as certain changes destabilized certain items in the past (e.g. champ bags to lodestones/ ascended armor crafting on merchant priced silk).

How big the rise in prices of t5-t6 is really dependent on the nature of precursor crafting, how much of an impact that people are currently using t5-t6s in crafting exotics and rares for precursors, and how much people are willing for farm t5-t6s when precursor crafting is implemented.

Many of us have been waiting for 2 years for a change and can handle an increase in prices of t5-t6s.

You guys still believe that a precursor crafting or quest is on the way??? I got a bridge to sell you also…..

Sauzo.6821:

You guys still believe that a precursor crafting or quest is on the way??? I got a bridge to sell you also…..

This. As long as players accept being strung along, these won’t be coming.

@protoavis

You say you have 25k gold made flipping tp and you are complaning about precursor price O.o

Well, there are 3 option:

1) you do NOT have 25k gold. You just say you have 25k gold to cover fact you are here complaining cause you cant buy precursor. This would be sad cause all tyria is filled with people with legendaries.. In life when you cant do something other people are doing it, means you are unable to do it and not that doing it its impossible.

2) you really have 25k gold and you dont want to use them to buy precursor cause you are greedy, then you are here complaining about precursor price, while the real issue its yourself

3) you tell the truth: you have 25k gold and you are here complaining for precursor price. This would be the wost and saddest option. You are basically trolling people because you told you made 25k golds flipping tp, that basically means you are one of the main reason precursor price is high BUT regardless this you are here complaining about precursor price. Its like a warlord who sell weapons complaining of war.

Chose your option

Yujin.1785:

Many of us have been waiting for 2 years for a change and can handle an increase in prices of t5-t6s.

What about everyone else in the game? THAT’s my point.

Again, I’m not apposed to the addition, just the attitude that no matter how it effects player not interested in a Legendary it MUST be done NOW.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Yujin.1785:

Many of us have been waiting for 2 years for a change and can handle an increase in prices of t5-t6s.

What about everyone else in the game? THAT’s my point.

Again, I’m not apposed to the addition, just the attitude that no matter how it effects player not interested in a Legendary it MUST be done NOW.

What about “everyone else”? We really don’t know how far reaching the increased effects are until Anet comes out with a coherent plan. If we had to take a guess though, JS and Anet are probably going to minimize destabilization from some time gate just how AP chests were implemented or Ascended crafting. We’ve always had destabilizing forces from economic changes or updates. and no one really said anything about “everyone else” (e.g. Ascended armor crafting on “everyone else” that did not level their armor-based crafting professions to 400 prior to the change). I guess the point I’m getting at it that you really can’t worry about how much the increase in prices are until they come up with a game plan. At the very least, we know that are quite a number of people that are currently not satisfied with the precursor system for over 2 years.

That being said, it being worked on soon or some news about it being worked currently isn’t really unreasonable. People have been clamoring for some change in precursor acquisition since a few months before the Lost Shores. That’s all some of us are asking for really, especially after 2 years of waiting.

I gave up caring how to obtain a pre when the Legend dropped from the forge back in April. My game wasn’t ‘complete’ after getting it, but it felt like a goal had been successfully reached and was a lot more satisfying having gotten something I’d worked so hard for.

Having said this, it still doesn’t solve the problem of how to achieve a pre more effectively and sure-fire than hitting the TP and dwindling your gold on a buy order. Chance it like I did and you may get lucky once. Most of us can’t afford to do it that way.

I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it until something is done – a change is needed and it’s been a long enough time keeping the rich happy.

aelfwe.4239:

@protoavis
…
3) you tell the truth: you have 25k gold and you are here complaining for precursor price. This would be the wost and saddest option. You are basically trolling people because you told you made 25k golds flipping tp, that basically means you are one of the main reason precursor price is high BUT regardless this you are here complaining about precursor price. Its like a warlord who sell weapons complaining of war.

Chose your option

There are plenty of ways to make money trading which don’t contribute to high precursor prices. Precursor prices are determined by liquidity and the supply/demand curve, AFAICT.

linuxotaku.4731:

aelfwe.4239:

@protoavis
…
3) you tell the truth: you have 25k gold and you are here complaining for precursor price. This would be the wost and saddest option. You are basically trolling people because you told you made 25k golds flipping tp, that basically means you are one of the main reason precursor price is high BUT regardless this you are here complaining about precursor price. Its like a warlord who sell weapons complaining of war.

Chose your option

There are plenty of ways to make money trading which don’t contribute to high precursor prices. Precursor prices are determined by liquidity and the supply/demand curve, AFAICT.

But I think he/she is referring to is that most of the people who have large amounts of cash made a good chunk flipping the TP or still do. Those people can afford to throw up huge buy out offers over everyone else thus driving up the prices, not necessarily on precursors but smaller stuff that they can throw large buyouts for large amounts and buy out all the lower amounts for sale, thus kind of setting a higher prices. Of course there are those that didn’t play the TP and have large amounts of cash but those people generally aren’t gonna spend it since they didn’t get that much gold from spending it unwisely. A loosely based example is the guy who plays the TP all day making 100g a day and the guy who makes 10g a day doing other stuff. After a week, that guy who makes 100g a day is gonna be able to blow more gold on anything while the 10g a day guy isn’t gonna have the cash to really throw around. Loose example like I said but you get the general idea.

Sauzo.6821:

linuxotaku.4731:

aelfwe.4239:

@protoavis
…
3) you tell the truth: you have 25k gold and you are here complaining for precursor price. This would be the wost and saddest option. You are basically trolling people because you told you made 25k golds flipping tp, that basically means you are one of the main reason precursor price is high BUT regardless this you are here complaining about precursor price. Its like a warlord who sell weapons complaining of war.

Chose your option

There are plenty of ways to make money trading which don’t contribute to high precursor prices. Precursor prices are determined by liquidity and the supply/demand curve, AFAICT.

But I think he/she is referring to is that most of the people who have large amounts of cash made a good chunk flipping the TP or still do. Those people can afford to throw up huge buy out offers over everyone else thus driving up the prices, not necessarily on precursors but smaller stuff that they can throw large buyouts for large amounts and buy out all the lower amounts for sale, thus kind of setting a higher prices. Of course there are those that didn’t play the TP and have large amounts of cash but those people generally aren’t gonna spend it since they didn’t get that much gold from spending it unwisely. A loosely based example is the guy who plays the TP all day making 100g a day and the guy who makes 10g a day doing other stuff. After a week, that guy who makes 100g a day is gonna be able to blow more gold on anything while the 10g a day guy isn’t gonna have the cash to really throw around. Loose example like I said but you get the general idea.

If you mean items like the permanent hairstylist contract — then I agree that people who have a lot of cash determine the price.

But for most items, including precursors, I don’t think there’s any good evidence that those with a lot of money materially affect the market price — as others have pointed out more eloquently than I can, when liquidity constrained the price, flipping precursors was profitable; but that’s no longer the case, as they were range bound with a range of less than 15% for most of the past 1.5 years (there was a demand shock with the wardrobe change — but the shape of most markets since that make me think that prices are driven by supply and demand, not the purchasing habits of people who’ve accumulated a lot of gold).

Im am relatively new to this game, but (while probably echoing some people here) im going to throw in my 2 cents from the perspective of someone who is just recently learning about all of this stuff. To me, calling something “legendary” should mean that all the steps to acquiring that item should be because the player has been “legendary”. For one of the items to be acquired ONLY though either shear luck from a drop or bought from another player who acquired it through shear luck with a large sum of gold gained through either TP flipping or just farming and selling, is not “legendary”. Would seem that such an item, because it is a part of being “legendary”, should be acquired through in game tasks (not mindless farming/luck) or crafted using sets of items acquired through those types of tasks.

linuxotaku.4731:

there was a demand shock with the wardrobe change

a lot of people say this but there was another significant change at the same time in what is possibly the main way precursors were being created…The Mystic Forge. At the same time they (Anet) increased the variety of returns from the Mystic Forge to include sub 80 items (on what was guaranteed lvl 80 items before) which reduced the potential gold returns making the whole process of making precursors far more risky (as before you often could break far closer to even by selling the exotic returns compared with now when you get an exotic and it’s sub lvl 80 and work pretty much nothing meaning the whole process of creating them via Mystic Forge now costs a whole lot more gold than it previously did)

Precursor system can not stay as it is. GW2 was advertised as a non sub game and everybody can take a break from time to time. I took a break the last 5 months. Precursor prices tripled. If this continues nobody will be able to afford them without using a CC … or play Auction House 2 not gw2.

Also ANet stated more than a yr ago that they feel Pre prices are too high and consider crafting. Really? Priced probably went up 5-10 times since then. What does Anet do? Implement a wardrobe system which triples the prices?! Well done Anet, gg? Is the business model now is to sell gems for precursors instead of developing expansion?

New players have basically 0 chance getting 1.
I have 50/50 HoM. A few 80 Chars, 2x world completion, +5k AP and have never seen a precursor. I could easily buy one via CC, but that would feel like cheating and i would regret it. No thanks.

Maybe a 6 monthly Kraka event would be an option. Think about 50% of ppl got 1 out of that event.