Guild Wars 2

Lakemine.3014:

TT or Shatterer (I hate that fight now because next to no one does CC anymore) or TD King of the Jungle meta. Even with mechanics that one shot and fail the event, people still wont learn. Mind you, you can still get them down…..but you either have to be part of the guild leading it or get lucky in about 20s they post the LFG, because your stuck and sucks be you, you just wasted a hour sitting and waiting for the LFG to post.

This is defeatist attitude, simple as that. How long it take pugs to adapt to new bloomhunger in t4, when before one-shot or troublesome mechanics that lead to wipe after wipes? I spend 20+ hrs learning to solo lupi, and believe me I say he has many one shot mechanics himself. The idea is to make each raid boss similar on a solo level. Believe me this is the only (feasible) solution that they would even consider

I barely have even 50 LI to my name, but guess what I still been able to kill sloth while volunteering to be a slubbling and never even downing the whole fight. In fact in pug we almost 8-man the whole fight but we wiped when boss was at 1% health, soo close. It’s not abt ur skill or even how many X times you’ve killed it, it’s abt learning through practice and after many wasted hours and thinking it through so u better prepared. If you think such training mode is too hard or unfair for u, then guess what actual raids with real groups are not gonna be any easier for u

I am telling you this as someone who was newcomer to raids not even 2 months ago, so u know that I know how tough it is to get into raids atm, and how bottomless and despairing it is when ur starting out and no grp wants u

And here is my point made in print….

Rylen.2147:

All we ask for is that you run one of the correct builds for your class (these can be found at metabattle.com or qtfy.enjin.com).

That’s the disconnect, granted, in my opinion/experiences.

Oh I would LOVE it if there wasn’t “wasted time” anymore but….the only way to do that, is make everything soloable. Because as long as there is content that requires more then 2-3 people, it will ALWAYS be “wasted time” if 6 hours later your still in AC p1.

I’ve rarely if ever had a dungeon experience that ended in total failure, and if that is what’s happening, it’s fairly easy to figure out quickly, bail, and find a better group. With raids, multiple failures are par for the course, so it can take a while to figure out that the group’s a dud. I’m not expecting it to be completely impossible to fail, just highly unlikely, so that the expected outcome of a random pug run is that it’ll go smoothly and be completed in 1-3 attempts. Occasionally it could fall short of that, but that would be the exception, not the rule. Balanced out right, even a few players outright trolling the group could be ignored and the group could succeed in spite of them if they’re reasonably competent.

Heck I LOVED the Mordy fight at the end of HoT storyline, my lil brother (yeah I know he beat me to it) said it was really hard and it took him 2 1/2 hours to solo it but he liked it, so I got there and saw TONS of people just sitting there in front of the instance doing nothing but asking for groups and help for it. And I said NO I AM SOLOING THIS. So a 1 1/2 hours later, BOOM I beat it and LOVED IT. And I solo it each time on each character I take through, and love it each time. And guess what? there are still people sitting there in front of the boss instance looking for groups because they cant solo it. Heck I had to help some guildys with it, and even the Tiami’s holo fight in LS3 Ep2.

Yeah, I soloed it too, I didn’t find it that hard, but didn’t hit any bugs either. But it’s a good thing that players who can’t solo it are able to team up and shore up each others’ weaknesses. I know that when I was doing a lot of the S2 optional objectives, I couldn’t solo those, but was able to clear them in groups, in some cases practically being carried, in other cases carrying others, depending on my relative skill.

Ok…..Ohoni.6057, what is it about raids that you cant do? You have mentioned over and over and over and over how you want them dumbed down, for you, so YOU can get easy rewards.

As near as I can tell, I do pretty fine whenever I attempt raids, but something seems to always wipe the rest of the party eventually. I’d like to be able to just load up the LFG, click on a group, join them in the raid, fight the boss, take 1-3 attempts, and beat it. The current raids too often lead to wipes. Basically, I’d prefer that most of the attacks that tend to OHKO characters, would no longer do that, they would be recoverable rather than auto-wipes. And I would prefer less of a DPS check, so that less refined builds, gearing, and rotations could be used and still phase bosses quickly enough to get the job done.

I guess when it comes down to it, the biggest barrier that prevents me from EVER enjoying raids in their current form, is that I loathe repetition due to failure. I absolutely hate wipe, repeat, wipe, repeat, wipe, repeat until you make it. I will never enjoy any gameplay element that is based on that premise. I prefer barely succeed > do even better the next time > better still the next time > sailing through it. Even if I eventually succeed, if that only comes after dozens of failures, it will be a net-negative experience for me, the joy of success will be far weaker than the annoyance of the failures. I’m aware that other people feel the exact opposite, and that’s great, hard mode if clearly for them, but it’s just as clearly not for me, and I’d like an alternative.

Basically I just want odds of success that are comparable with other “somewhat difficult” content in the game, rather than several tiers above that.

I assume that’s for joining someone’s training run? I hope you do realize the group leader has the right to ask whatever req he/she wants, that’s the prerogative of creating your own groups. Maybe you should do the same.

The game is not a total package, it is a collection of dozens of bits and pieces, and each has a target audience.

It’s still a total package. I don’t wear the Ascension on my PvP character that did 90% of the earning of it. The only character that wears it as a backpiece is one that’s never set foot in PvP, and most of the characters I’ve set it as wings for haven’t been in there either. If a player does not want to PvP at all, he’s still a paying customer of the whole game, and he has a right to ask for some method of earning the Ascension that doesn’t require any PvP at all.

If you have two completely different games, say, Overwatch and WoW, then it’s fair to say “what’s in Overwatch is for Overwatch players and what’s in WoW is for WoW players,” But if it’s all one game, all one global lore, and players can freely transfer their achievements from one mode to the other, then it IS all a single system, and players of ANY part of that system can place a stake on other parts of that system in which they are mostly uninvolved.

You can say “this part of the game is not for you,” but only IF players can experience whichever parts of that element they DO want without having to take on the parts that bother them.

It really doesn’t matter how many non-raiders aren’t getting their expectations met by raids; they aren’t the target audience. It does matter how many non-raiders aren’t having their expectations met outside of raids — and I think that would be a better place to direct your suggestions.

Pretend that ANet is never going to add tiers to raids (even if they did, it would take a year or so to implement probably). What would you like to see ANet do in the rest of the game?

So what you’re saying is, instead of asking for an easy mode raid, I should be asking for, say, a dungeon, that contains the Forsaken Thicket map, lore elements, encounters, and reward tables, and if played using ten player teams, all tuned to dungeon-tier difficulty, but that is absolutely definitely NOT a raid? I could live with that, I supposed.

" I’d like to be able to just load up the LFG, click on a group, join them in the raid, fight the boss, take 1-3 attempts, and beat it. The current raids too often lead to wipes. "

On that we can agree. As for your other bit, that’s called progression and yea, while wipe after wipe is not fun, the goal is to eventually get a bit further each time and that’s why you should really look for progression with a guild.
PUGS by nature were never meant to be such and its sad that many people have to look to pugs in order to progress. That’s a disconnect right there. Guilds need to be progressing and the occasional pug is there for those that missed the weekly guild raid, period. Far to much focus and expectations are put on the pugs in this game, with raids.

Joxer.6024:

Far to much focus and expectations are put on the pugs in this game, with raids.

By the players, or the developers? I do think a lot of people are missing the fun of having a consistent group of people to raid with, when they go down the PUG route.

On that we can agree. As for your other bit, that’s called progression and yea, while wipe after wipe is not fun, the goal is to eventually get a bit further each time and that’s why you should really look for progression with a guild.

I fully understand how progression works, I just want to play no part in it, for the reasons I explained. I do not in any way, shape, or form enjoy the core principles of “progression.” I prefer to stumble my way through a task within the first few attempts, and then gradually over time get better, and better at it until I can practically do it blindfolded. that is the kind of progression that I enjoy, not the “failing many times until eventually I can stumble my way through it.”

Far to much focus and expectations are put on the pugs in this game, with raids.

Which is why raids were always conceptually a horrible idea for this game. “Guild” may be in the title, but GW2 has always been a game about pugs, whether the developers grasped that or not. Guilds were almost completely pointless at first, and largely ignorable for most of the game’s lifespan. I only ended up in guilds when I was playing with someone and they randomly invited me, and now I’ve ended up a guild leader, but ultimately they work better as ways to coordinate friends, rather than a necessary means to an end.

I fully believe that EVERY element of GW2 needs to be designed fully around the concept of “can I pug it?” and if it fails that test, it should be reworked. Other games might thrive on tightly wound guild structures, but Guild Wars 2 is not other games, and a lot of us seem to like it that way.

nagr.1593:

Lakemine.3014:

TT or Shatterer (I hate that fight now because next to no one does CC anymore) or TD King of the Jungle meta. Even with mechanics that one shot and fail the event, people still wont learn. Mind you, you can still get them down…..but you either have to be part of the guild leading it or get lucky in about 20s they post the LFG, because your stuck and sucks be you, you just wasted a hour sitting and waiting for the LFG to post.

This is defeatist attitude, simple as that. How long it take pugs to adapt to new bloomhunger in t4, when before one-shot or troublesome mechanics that lead to wipe after wipes? I spend 20+ hrs learning to solo lupi, and believe me I say he has many one shot mechanics himself. The idea is to make each raid boss similar on a solo level. Believe me this is the only (feasible) solution that they would even consider

I barely have even 50 LI to my name, but guess what I still been able to kill sloth while volunteering to be a slubbling and never even downing the whole fight. In fact in pug we almost 8-man the whole fight but we wiped when boss was at 1% health, soo close. It’s not abt ur skill or even how many X times you’ve killed it, it’s abt learning through practice and after many wasted hours and thinking it through so u better prepared. If you think such training mode is too hard or unfair for u, then guess what actual raids with real groups are not gonna be any easier for u

I am telling you this as someone who was newcomer to raids not even 2 months ago, so u know that I know how tough it is to get into raids atm, and how bottomless and despairing it is when ur starting out and no grp wants u

Oh I know. Was stating it as fact because it is. Never said that this was my only mindset. I have multiple personalities to handle all the different aspects of the game, pve, fractals, dungeons, wvw, raids, pvp unranked and rank ect ect. First time into Sloth had never done it before and just wanted to dps and dodge when I had to, but then someone said “Get the daredevil to do it.” and I thought “great, I’m kicked now”. Didn’t mess up once, in fact it was 3 other people who had more LIs then me who kept messing up and after 6 wipes we got it.

Btw, the WB list I listed was for the previous poster was I quoting to show there ARE one shot wiping mechanics in fights current in open world pve, and even with them people will still not learn them to prevent said one shot and wasting everyones time.

But thanks for your concern, shows there are people who care for others. (Oh which even though a lot of the raider, fractal, dungeon and ranked people I run into are absolute <insert negative words>, GW2 has been the nicest, kindest community I have run into. Great refresher compared to SWTORs. shudders)

Ohoni.6057:

The game is not a total package, it is a collection of dozens of bits and pieces, and each has a target audience.

It’s still a total package. I don’t wear the Ascension on my PvP character that did 90% of the earning of it. The only character that wears it as a backpiece is one that’s never set foot in PvP, and most of the characters I’ve set it as wings for haven’t been in there either. If a player does not want to PvP at all, he’s still a paying customer of the whole game, and he has a right to ask for some method of earning the Ascension that doesn’t require any PvP at all.

If you have two completely different games, say, Overwatch and WoW, then it’s fair to say “what’s in Overwatch is for Overwatch players and what’s in WoW is for WoW players,” But if it’s all one game, all one global lore, and players can freely transfer their achievements from one mode to the other, then it IS all a single system, and players of ANY part of that system can place a stake on other parts of that system in which they are mostly uninvolved.

You can say “this part of the game is not for you,” but only IF players can experience whichever parts of that element they DO want without having to take on the parts that bother them.

It really doesn’t matter how many non-raiders aren’t getting their expectations met by raids; they aren’t the target audience. It does matter how many non-raiders aren’t having their expectations met outside of raids — and I think that would be a better place to direct your suggestions.

Pretend that ANet is never going to add tiers to raids (even if they did, it would take a year or so to implement probably). What would you like to see ANet do in the rest of the game?

So what you’re saying is, instead of asking for an easy mode raid, I should be asking for, say, a dungeon, that contains the Forsaken Thicket map, lore elements, encounters, and reward tables, and if played using ten player teams, all tuned to dungeon-tier difficulty, but that is absolutely definitely NOT a raid? I could live with that, I supposed.

Yes they have the right to ask, but will Anet listen to them and let them get the Ascension outside of ranked pvp? Nope. People have already asked that, and Anet said no. What they did instead was let people who could only get to Emerald (division 2) still get the parts needed for it. Yeah the people in Legendary division got it in less then 3 seasons, and the Emerald people have to take what……8-10 seasons to get it? But the point is, they added that legendary for the pvpers, because “the pve’ers get all the legendarys and we want one!” So….they added one, same with the fractal legendary. But the Ascension is NOT ment to be got by other means, ONLY through ranked, even if you stink at it and it will take you a LONG time, you can still get it. Same with the pvp and wvw only armors. Would I like there it be a path to ONLY play pvp and never have to play pve and wvw to get all those armors and legnedarys and ect ect? You betcha. But that’s not the game Anet is making nor wants to make. So have to be content with what we have, and we can ask for a change, but if they say no either play with what we have or find something else. (And yes I have done both :P)

It kinda mostly used to be that way, but Anet changed that, imo mainly because of WvW low populations (another convo for another time) and to get more people in there, they locked the gift of battle behind a reward track, meaning to get it, would take longer and you would HAVE to play it. I think kinda the same with pvp? IIRC they said they wanted people to play other aspects of the game they normally wouldn’t play nor go to nor try. Course……there is a reason for that. Not everyone likes the fast paced nature of pvp, nor the open zerging or roaming of wvw, but they like the legendarys. But now are FORCED to do content they dislike to get what they like. And…….well that’s a choice you have to make on your own if your going to do that or not. I hate legnedarys but for different reasons.

You know what would be great? (Hopefully I don’t offend anyone who works at Anet…..I hope I hope I hope) But if we get a official stance on when they release content if they are going for a niche group or overall people. I mean, it kinda is there when they release a new fractal, its for the pve people, and a new pvp map its for the pvp people, and a new wvw map is for the wvw’ers and the LS updates are well for everyone. But maybe some people think that when content gets released it SHOULD be for everyone, regardless of if they hate wvw, or dislike pvp or detest pve, and when a trailer shows up for “new content” and its something (raids, fractals, pvp map or legendary) they hate, they rage because they are not getting the content “they” want?

As much as I like a official response about it (but I’m a idiot, and LOVE seeing the red border for devs posts)…….people need to think a bit more before hand that they are making content across the board but that means ALL, not just the ones you want. Just maybe not on the time schedule you want. Things are always in motion, plus…….making new content takes time and work, and they all cant work on a new pvp map, new LS chapter, new raid, new fractal and on top of that working on a new xpac!?!? ALL AT THE SAME TIME!?!?! (And yes, I know there are different teams for different content, but it still takes time.) And if IIRC they said they have about 150ish people working on the game, and about half are working on the xpac, and that was before the news of “ramping up production of the new xpac” was heard about.

I know this is a forum for raids, but maybe there is a mindset that is traveling to all aspects of the game, and people need to rethink it? (could be wrong, but hey I like asking questions and getting people to think :P)

how about instead of making raids easier, you set up the training room to allow players to select the mechanics that they want to work on (for instance, VG blue and green circles). and let players play with it. the way the training room is set up its already enough to teach the players how each mechanic works and get them familiar with it that way. or creat instanced portions of the fight like starting players at the first split of VG. then have it stop once the split is done. because as is the whole “attempting it to fail” approach isnt helping new players learn the stuff. as a player whose raided since launch, i feel like its become a hostile place for players that are just looking to start off. inexperienced players have to lie to get into raids anymore. and thats a toxic place to leave your new players in. fix the raiding lfg to split out exp parties and inexperienced parties. and fix the training room to let players experience the raid stuff they need to know about beforehand.

Yes they have the right to ask, but will Anet listen to them and let them get the Ascension outside of ranked pvp? Nope.

They should though, and they might. There’s no reason to give up on them, even if they’ve said that they won’t. They can always do better, they can always be better than they were yesterday.

Would I like there it be a path to ONLY play pvp and never have to play pve and wvw to get all those armors and legnedarys and ect ect? You betcha. But that’s not the game Anet is making nor wants to make.

But again, if the players want that, then that’s the game the developers should make. There’s no benefit to them saying “this would make the players happier, but. . . nah.”

So have to be content with what we have, and we can ask for a change, but if they say no either play with what we have or find something else. (And yes I have done both :P)

Or, get back up and keep fighting for what you believe is right.

Course……there is a reason for that. Not everyone likes the fast paced nature of pvp, nor the open zerging or roaming of wvw, but they like the legendarys. But now are FORCED to do content they dislike to get what they like.

And I believe that’s toxic to the long term life of the game. When you’re doing content you don’t enjoy, that leads to burnout. When you know there are goals that you have, but the only path through them is over a bed of thorns, that burns you out. You might not ragequit over it, but it makes you a little less likely to log in each day, rather than playing that free Overwatch weekend, or finally finishing Rise of the Tomb Raider, or God forbid getting more of your work done.

I think Anet has some value in getting players to try different content on a regular basis, and it’s fine for them to bury cool rewards behind specific content, but it should be buried shallowly, so that you only have to spend a little bit of time on the content to unlock that exclusive reward. That isn’t to say that the overall reward can’t take a lot of effort, just that the exclusive portion of that reward shouldn’t, and then maybe you can earn the rest of it elsewhere. That means that you’ll at least try out the content, see if you enjoy it, and if you do, continuing in that content will be the fastest way to complete the overall reward, but if it turns out you really hate that content, nobody benefits from you staying there, and you can move on to other things.

But if we get a official stance on when they release content if they are going for a niche group or overall people. I

It doesn’t matter who they intend the target to be. If they release content into the game, then it’s content for any player who sees any reason to play it. And if any player sees some reasons they want to play it, and other reasons why they don’t want to play it, then they have every right to push for changes that they believe would improve the content.

Ohoni.6057:

I fully believe that EVERY element of GW2 needs to be designed fully around the concept of “can I pug it?” and if it fails that test, it should be reworked. Other games might thrive on tightly wound guild structures, but Guild Wars 2 is not other games, and a lot of us seem to like it that way.

You can pug raids.

You can pug raids.

Oh! You’ve solved this entire problem then! Apparently raids are easily puggable, and everyone who says otherwise is wrong somehow.

Ohoni.6057:

You can pug raids.

Oh! You’ve solved this entire problem then! Apparently raids are easily puggable, and everyone who says otherwise is wrong somehow.

Yes, depending of your connection hours and your own expérience, you can easily beat 6 or 7 boss / events in pug ( matthias and xera are, in my opinion, more difficult to pug)

Hypairion.9210:

Ohoni.6057:

You can pug raids.

Oh! You’ve solved this entire problem then! Apparently raids are easily puggable, and everyone who says otherwise is wrong somehow.

Yes, depending of your connection hours and your own expérience, you can easily beat 6 or 7 boss / events in pug ( matthias and xera are, in my opinion, more difficult to pug)

Depending on your class/build and how many LI you have, that’s what pugs look at sadly. Skill has nothing to do with since you are never given the chance to show if you have said skills or not.

Joxer.6024:

Hypairion.9210:

Ohoni.6057:

You can pug raids.

Oh! You’ve solved this entire problem then! Apparently raids are easily puggable, and everyone who says otherwise is wrong somehow.

Yes, depending of your connection hours and your own expérience, you can easily beat 6 or 7 boss / events in pug ( matthias and xera are, in my opinion, more difficult to pug)

Depending on your class/build and how many LI you have, that’s what pugs look at sadly. Skill has nothing to do with since you are never given the chance to show if you have said skills or not.

I don’t believe in Li check, when me and some friends organize a pug run, usually it’s “know mecanisms and be exp or little exp”. But Yes, classes, build and food have to be meta. If you’re an awesome nomad Guard, sorry, but you’re not needed.

Joxer.6024:

Hypairion.9210:

Ohoni.6057:

You can pug raids.

Oh! You’ve solved this entire problem then! Apparently raids are easily puggable, and everyone who says otherwise is wrong somehow.

Yes, depending of your connection hours and your own expérience, you can easily beat 6 or 7 boss / events in pug ( matthias and xera are, in my opinion, more difficult to pug)

Depending on your class/build and how many LI you have, that’s what pugs look at sadly. Skill has nothing to do with since you are never given the chance to show if you have said skills or not.

Joxer, depends on how pug team manage the team play. this week, my husband couldn’t get xera kill with 250+li team, later join 150li team couldn’t get it either, and later join 100li team, he got xera killed in second try.
People giving up too easily too.

Sarrs.4831:

Joxer.6024:

Far to much focus and expectations are put on the pugs in this game, with raids.

By the players, or the developers? I do think a lot of people are missing the fun of having a consistent group of people to raid with, when they go down the PUG route.

Players sadly. Pugs should not be the go to for raiding. its an acronym for “Picking Up Group” or “Pick Up Group”, as we all know.
Our guild quit doing raids because everyone would pug them, easy clear was the reply. So the raids in themselves are somewhat of a fail when pugs are the answer for clearing each week, and not your guild.
But this and all the other posts have been saying the same thing, just different flavors and I doubt its going to change so you either roll with it like Talindra and her hubby do or you stop like me.

Hypairion.9210:

Joxer.6024:

Hypairion.9210:

Ohoni.6057:

You can pug raids.

Oh! You’ve solved this entire problem then! Apparently raids are easily puggable, and everyone who says otherwise is wrong somehow.

Yes, depending of your connection hours and your own expérience, you can easily beat 6 or 7 boss / events in pug ( matthias and xera are, in my opinion, more difficult to pug)

Depending on your class/build and how many LI you have, that’s what pugs look at sadly. Skill has nothing to do with since you are never given the chance to show if you have said skills or not.

I don’t believe in Li check, when me and some friends organize a pug run, usually it’s “know mecanisms and be exp or little exp”. But Yes, classes, build and food have to be meta. If you’re an awesome nomad Guard, sorry, but you’re not needed.

Yea, fair call. As I mentioned elsewhere some ruls of play have to be followed to a certain degree, I get that. And I wish your outlook on pugs and filling them was the “norm”, raid life would be so much easier and fun!! Spread the love mate!!

Pls, stop that, i never said i was into easier raid, i said encounter, which is not the same. For your information, a raid is formed by several encounters.

Ok, fair enough, if you did not mean what you said, that’s ok, but can we at least agree that the premise remains the same, that it would be good to have an easier raid for those that have no interest in the harder one, or for players in the middle to train off of?

No, i still disagree with you, because adding easier mode is not needed (i prefer an easier boss at the begenning at the raid), it would delay adding new wings, and your purpose is to have legendary armor through easy mode, which i strongly disagree with.

No, that really doesn’t work. You need to train the actual mechanics of the encounter. Training against Vale Guardian does nothing to train you for Gorseval. Even less would the Wing 3 escort train you for Vale Guardian.

But why now are you talking about training? in numerous post, you told us you didn’t want an easy mode for train, you don’t want raid mecanism because that’s too stressfull for you. For you, easy mode is for story purpose (but no story in fight, you read notes that’s all), and a meaning to gain raid rewards without effort.
I don’t understand why so suddenlly you’re talking about training… And an easy encounter, if true can’t train you to other boss mecanisms if they are totally different, can train you to your rotation and your class. So that after, for more difficult boss, you can concentrate totally on the boss mecanisms (since you master better your class).

But again, if you go in knowing that the first chapter is as far as you’re likely to be able to read because the rest of it is in Sanskrit, then that just makes it all the more frustrating that someone won’t just release a translated version that you can read.

But how could you know that without trying?

Twilight Demon.5324:

how about instead of making raids easier, you set up the training room to allow players to select the mechanics that they want to work on (for instance, VG blue and green circles). and let players play with it. the way the training room is set up its already enough to teach the players how each mechanic works and get them familiar with it that way. or creat instanced portions of the fight like starting players at the first split of VG. then have it stop once the split is done. because as is the whole “attempting it to fail” approach isnt helping new players learn the stuff. as a player whose raided since launch, i feel like its become a hostile place for players that are just looking to start off. inexperienced players have to lie to get into raids anymore. and thats a toxic place to leave your new players in. fix the raiding lfg to split out exp parties and inexperienced parties. and fix the training room to let players experience the raid stuff they need to know about beforehand.

+1 to this Anet should implement this feature in guild halls for the next expansion. Something similar to taimi’s game room in LS3

Because I’ve seen this a lot, how long it would take to earn a reward doesn’t really matter, once you give access to a reward through an easier way, it’s all over for that reward. Especially if that easier way is something really low, like dungeon or low fractals difficulty.

Ascended ARMOR chests start dropping in Fractals at T3, it’s completely random with low chances and you can’t pick your stats or the slot you want, you might always get boots or gloves. And yet, you want to get LEGENDARY armor running something of T1 difficulty or even lower. A complete LEGENDARY armor set, without RNG and the ability to change to any stat set you want, by running T1 fractals. How does that make any kind of sense?

Not to mention Magnetite Shards. Ascended Weapons start dropping at T2, with abysmal low chances, and you get a random weapon with random stats. On the other hand, you want to be able to buy Ascended armor/weapons with shards, without RNG and with the stats you want, just by running some T1-difficulty content.

I hope those who are asking for access to the complete raid rewards using something of dungeon difficulty can re-think what they are talking about. It’s beyond ridiculous to ask for a new Raid difficulty that is equal to dungeon AND have access to the Raid rewards.

nagr.1593:

Your not making as strong an argument as u think. The common answer to this is ‘make ur own LFG?’ but have u any repeated trials of this to really prove ur point? I challenge u to post throughout diff times of day, morning, afternoon, whatever and see how long it takes grp to fill. An exp group for sloth today (two days before reset) take more than hour to go and when I came back I saw they were still at 5/10. That’s not to even mention those grps where u find 6/10, then everyone disbands cos there’s no leader or tag in group. You should not be forced to spend 300g to prevent this from happening. It’s unrealistic. Just like u would expect everyone in TS to use mics. U obviously don’t have enough experience in this to actually expect ppl to take ur word for it.

Why not make it more interesting and ask only for absurd LI reqs. See how much longer it takes for grp to fill, before u or anyone else accuse him of hyperbole. It is it really hyperbole in truth? I don’t think so

Dude, I have raided several months with success in this game. With a static group and also with pugs. Almost 200 LIs right now (most of them with pugs), all obtained with different classes (warrior, necro, tempest, druid and revenant – could have been more but I don’t play engi, guard, chrono and thief otherwise I would have tried with them if I was asked for to switch).
Rarely, I have been a silent participant who has been carried but most of the time I was actively talking at TS and here it comes: I have also lead raid groups as a commander, including organizing, inviting, explaining and executing over hours.* And I had more than just usual success for example oneshotting VG, oneshotting Gorse and bringing new players to their first kills plus many more.

While doing that I never had to wait more than 30 minutes getting my group filled and I used LI restrictions + killproofs a lot – no problem to ask for 50 LIs Gorse or 80 LIs Sabetha/Sloth and so on!
It’s just a matter of how you write things in the lfg so that players are willing to join. The more profound and intelligent you write the more people are willing to join and have a nice time with your group. I agree that many “gamers” aren’t showing high social or intellectual levels but if you are using agreeable communicating skills people will feel comfortable and join you.

I read many postings of you since now and I don’t want to be mean but here in this forums you have shown an attitude that would not mesh with my ingame requirements for a raiding group. So, if you are not able to set up a proper, kind and interesting lfg for a raid group, that’s your problem not mine. I don’t have difficulties in raiding, you have or at least you were reporting some of them.

Of course I don’t raid at night or in the morning. Here I am using my brain: Most of the people are working, going to school or studying so do I. Surprise, surprise, we won’t find many raid groups from 1am – 4pm. That’s no different from other games. If you, nagr, have shift work: Tough luck! That’s life – you choosed!

Vinceman.4572:

And do u have proof of this otherwise? Something that doesn’t apply to niche times or primetime when most players are raiding, like first few days after reset or right around daily reset or so? If you don’t have definitive proof of this that doesn’t only apply to a slice of a week where raiders are most active, then don’t state otherwise. For instance, I’ve noticed an increasing dearth of exp and willing raiders as weekly reset approaches, and especially around early morning times. What u might feel as truth might not as such to everyone, thus not the complete truth

LOL! I don’t have to proof it. He came up with an unproven argument and his argument wasn’t the thing of playing next to weekly raid reset. You haven’t understood: He said the number of raiders is not big enough that the system can be healthy for long. Well, this system is still working and raiders are raiding – over a year now. So, his assumption is wrong till we notice differences.
On your argument of raids being played rarely at weekends: That’s the same thing in other games too. You get your sh_t done before reset and most often you do it fast so that there is room for other stuff you can do. It’s no miracle that you would not meet that many groups at weekend than mondays or tuesdays!
Your illogical objection about not having enough ppl in the morning has also been answered by me: The common human has more important things to do during morning time than to play video games —> school, university, college, work!

No, i still disagree with you, because adding easier mode is not needed (i prefer an easier boss at the begenning at the raid), it would delay adding new wings, and your purpose is to have legendary armor through easy mode, which i strongly disagree with.

You aren’t the target audience for the easy mode, and I’m told that means you aren’t allowed to hold an opinion on it.

It wouldn’t necessarily delay new wings, we don’t know how much time it would take or who would be working on it. They managed to build the Super Adventure Box on their own time between other projects, I’m sure they could find the time to juggle a few databases without gumming up the works too noticeably. It’s not like they would release the raid wing the instant it’s done anyway, there would be a period of run-up before that data, so that it fit into whatever marketing and other events were going on. For example if they finished it in the middle of Wintersday, they wouldn’t likely just dump it out then, because there’s other things happening at the time. They’d probably wait until mid-January.

And finally, I don’t much care whether you disagree with me getting Legendary armor through easy mode, because that has nothing to do with you. You get it how you want to get it, you have no say in how others get it, and if your happiness can only come at their expense, then their happiness comes first.

But why now are you talking about training? in numerous post, you told us you didn’t want an easy mode for train, you don’t want raid mecanism because that’s too stressfull for you. For you, easy mode is for story purpose (but no story in fight, you read notes that’s all), and a meaning to gain raid rewards without effort.

You haven’t been paying attention. It’s about both. Training would not be my personal primary purpose in it, sure, but it would be some people’s purpose, and it should be functional for that purpose. There is a market for an easier raid as a training experience.

You’re also confusing “things you read” with “story.” The story includes the things you read, but it also includes the things you experience. The boss fights are a part of the story, because they are things that you experience along the way. That’s the difference between a game and a novel, the novel is just words on a page, a game is something you are a part of.

I don’t understand why so suddenlly you’re talking about training… And an easy encounter, if true can’t train you to other boss mecanisms if they are totally different, can train you to your rotation and your class. So that after, for more difficult boss, you can concentrate totally on the boss mecanisms (since you master better your class).

But an easy mode version of the same boss would allow you to focus on the boss’s mechanics without fear of party collapse, which is much more valuable. you can practice your basic DPS rotation on a training golem. The value in having an easy mode version of the boss is in learning “when the boss does this, I should do this. . .” and banking that reaction into muscle memory.

But again, if you go in knowing that the first chapter is as far as you’re likely to be able to read because the rest of it is in Sanskrit, then that just makes it all the more frustrating that someone won’t just release a translated version that you can read.

But how could you know that without trying?

Decades of experience. If the encounters are challenging enough that hardcore raiders aren’t throwing a fit on the forums, then they are more challenging than I could possibly enjoy.

Ascended ARMOR chests start dropping in Fractals at T3, it’s completely random with low chances and you can’t pick your stats or the slot you want, you might always get boots or gloves. And yet, you want to get LEGENDARY armor running something of T1 difficulty or even lower. A complete LEGENDARY armor set, without RNG and the ability to change to any stat set you want, by running T1 fractals. How does that make any kind of sense?

I’d settle for just the skin. The stats and stat swapping are meaningless to me, but they seem to be a package deal. A key difference though is that it wouldn’t be a random drop, it would be a process. A random drop you can get on the first attempt, this would be guaranteed to take a certain minimum amount of time and repetitions. Also, the process of actually making the armor would still cost a considerable amount of resources, so there’s no way you’d get a functional set of Legendary armor for less cost than just crafting yourself some Ascended armor.

You can get a Legendary Precursor on the first moa you kill in Queensdale, yet people still do Precursor quests for them or spend hundreds of gold on the TP. The existence of Legendary weapons that can be sold on the TP does not invalidate all Ascended weapons. It’ll be ok, just relax.

Not to mention Magnetite Shards. Ascended Weapons start dropping at T2, with abysmal low chances, and you get a random weapon with random stats. On the other hand, you want to be able to buy Ascended armor/weapons with shards, without RNG and with the stats you want, just by running some T1-difficulty content.

If you’re arguing that the Fractal rewards aren’t good enough, then make that case, but whatever they are has nothing to do with this. Besides, you can stat-swap Ascended gear, so if you don’t get the exact one you want, you can change it. Buying them with Magnetite costs 250 shards and 15-30 gold, that’s not exactly “free,” so even if you’d be able to get some shards through easy mode, it would likely take dozens of repetitions to earn enough for a single weapon, not even counting that gold cost.

I hope those who are asking for access to the complete raid rewards using something of dungeon difficulty can re-think what they are talking about. It’s beyond ridiculous to ask for a new Raid difficulty that is equal to dungeon AND have access to the Raid rewards.

Why?

“and I’m told that means you aren’t allowed to hold an opinion on it.”

and

“And finally, I don’t much care whether you disagree with me getting Legendary armor through easy mode, because that has nothing to do with you. You get it how you want to get it, you have no say in how others get it, and if your happiness can only come at their expense, then their happiness comes first.”

WTF??!! Really, what is he (Ohoni) on about? I’m lost now, just silly “I want candy but I don’t have to pay for it” kind of mentality. Can we shut this down now?

Joxer.6024:

“and I’m told that means you aren’t allowed to hold an opinion on it.”

and

“And finally, I don’t much care whether you disagree with me getting Legendary armor through easy mode, because that has nothing to do with you. You get it how you want to get it, you have no say in how others get it, and if your happiness can only come at their expense, then their happiness comes first.”

WTF??!! Really, what is he (Ohoni) on about? I’m lost now, just silly “I want candy but I don’t have to pay for it” kind of mentality. Can we shut this down now?

Ah so getting the candy bars from doing hard stuff in 6 months time compared to doing easier stuff and getting the same candy bars anywere bettwen 9-24 months is for free now?

I want what your smoking mate.

You can get a Legendary Precursor on the first moa you kill in Queensdale, yet people still do Precursor quests for them or spend hundreds of gold on the TP. The existence of Legendary weapons that can be sold on the TP does not invalidate all Ascended weapons. It’ll be ok, just relax.

Cute. The chances of getting a precursor from a moa are so low you can ignore them. Magnetite Shards offer access to Ascended armor and weapons without any kind of RNG, get into perspective here. Not to mention, 10 minutes of playing the easy mode will allow you to complete the first step of the Legendary armor which awards a full set of ascended armor with stats of your choice. I already posted this, why you make me post again the same thing?

Ohoni.6057:

Why?

I think I explained it clearly why. You want to make higher quality items available from lower difficulty content, I don’t have to explain further why that is dumb and not an option.

Linken.6345:

Joxer.6024:

“and I’m told that means you aren’t allowed to hold an opinion on it.”

and

“And finally, I don’t much care whether you disagree with me getting Legendary armor through easy mode, because that has nothing to do with you. You get it how you want to get it, you have no say in how others get it, and if your happiness can only come at their expense, then their happiness comes first.”

WTF??!! Really, what is he (Ohoni) on about? I’m lost now, just silly “I want candy but I don’t have to pay for it” kind of mentality. Can we shut this down now?

Ah so getting the candy bars from doing hard stuff in 6 months time compared to doing easier stuff and getting the same candy bars anywere bettwen 9-24 months is for free now?

I want what your smoking mate.

No, not the point I am trying to make. It just seems he wants to have what everyone else gets from doing raids “normal” by doing them in an easy mode. Bit unfair don’t ya think? You want easy mode or training, no problem, but don’t expect to reap the same rewards as those that do it the other way.

Joxer.6024:

No, not the point I am trying to make. It just seems he wants to have what everyone else gets from doing raids “normal” by doing them in an easy mode. Bit unfair don’t ya think? You want easy mode or training, no problem, but don’t expect to reap the same rewards as those that do it the other way.

It’s even worse than that. He doesn’t want to earn the raid rewards using this easy mode, but wants to earn rewards available from other types of content through this easy mode (Ascended armor/weapons). An easy mode that he also wants to be easier than that other content! So not only affecting Raids but the rest of the game as well.

Joxer.6024:

Linken.6345:

Joxer.6024:

“and I’m told that means you aren’t allowed to hold an opinion on it.”

and

“And finally, I don’t much care whether you disagree with me getting Legendary armor through easy mode, because that has nothing to do with you. You get it how you want to get it, you have no say in how others get it, and if your happiness can only come at their expense, then their happiness comes first.”

WTF??!! Really, what is he (Ohoni) on about? I’m lost now, just silly “I want candy but I don’t have to pay for it” kind of mentality. Can we shut this down now?

Ah so getting the candy bars from doing hard stuff in 6 months time compared to doing easier stuff and getting the same candy bars anywere bettwen 9-24 months is for free now?

I want what your smoking mate.

No, not the point I am trying to make. It just seems he wants to have what everyone else gets from doing raids “normal” by doing them in an easy mode. Bit unfair don’t ya think? You want easy mode or training, no problem, but don’t expect to reap the same rewards as those that do it the other way.

Why do it matter to you, if people want easier mode that take longer to earn the same stuff you get in normal?

Is it that some of the whales that pay raiders to be carried through normal will vanish?

Sure I wont say some of them wont vanish but some want rewards fast and will still pay for it some like me for example will never do it.

Havent set foot in the raids yet since Im not a metal battle copy paste kind of player.

How is this idea? An arena in the guild hall with holograms or named golems, who have all the same stats, effects and skills of raid bosses. And then you can choose a boss and ‘practice’ in thenguild hall? Preferably holograms somyou can get used to the skill animations.

“and I’m told that means you aren’t allowed to hold an opinion on it.”

and

“And finally, I don’t much care whether you disagree with me getting Legendary armor through easy mode, because that has nothing to do with you. You get it how you want to get it, you have no say in how others get it, and if your happiness can only come at their expense, then their happiness comes first.”

WTF??!! Really, what is he (Ohoni) on about? I’m lost now, just silly “I want candy but I don’t have to pay for it” kind of mentality. Can we shut this down now?

I wasn’t the one saying that if content is not intended for me then I shouldn’t have a voice in how it works, I was just passing that message on. As for the loot part, Other people’s loot is none of your business. What they have or don’t have shouldn’t matter to you. What matters is what You have, and how you feel about that.

Cute. The chances of getting a precursor from a moa are so low you can ignore them. Magnetite Shards offer access to Ascended armor and weapons without any kind of RNG, get into perspective here.

Sure, but you can also craft them yourself with no RNG, and the RNG odds of getting them from higher tier Fractals is likely to make it take much less time to get a drop that you can at least stat-swap for what you want than it is to earn one using Mangetite shards form an easy mode Raid. Besides, it’s not like Fractals are the only place to get Ascended drops. I’ve gotten several from PvP chests before, and those are effortless to accumulate. I have enough reward potions right now I bet I could spit out an Ascended weapon just sitting around near the bank. I think I’ve even found one through a monthly log-in chest before. You are way too focused on raid verses Fractal, they are not in competition. Each should offer good rewards, and if you find the rewards in either lacking, then make that case, but whatever the rewards are right now in Fractals should make no difference to what they should be from a hypothetical easy mode raid.

Not to mention, 10 minutes of playing the easy mode will allow you to complete the first step of the Legendary armor which awards a full set of ascended armor with stats of your choice.

That’s certainly not my version of it, but if that’s a version you’re happy with then I’d consider it a generous concession. I was thinking more along the lines of taking 10-20 hours of repeating the easy mode raid, over a period of weeks, to get that far along in the process. Possibly even more than that.

Even so that is a one-time reward of a single set of armor, you’d need at least three even if you were willing to swap the sets around on different characters, not to mention that you’d need to stat-swap them for different characters. It’s a nice reward, but they’ve given out nice one-time rewards in the past. We’ve gotten free character slots and shared inventory slots before, for doing nothing! And those are of far more value than a set of ascended armor. You’re making it out like players getting ascended armor to be this cataclysmic event.

I think I explained it clearly why. You want to make higher quality items available from lower difficulty content, I don’t have to explain further why that is dumb and not an option.

I really think that you do, you’ve described a situation, but not why this would be a problem.

No, not the point I am trying to make. It just seems he wants to have what everyone else gets from doing raids “normal” by doing them in an easy mode. Bit unfair don’t ya think? You want easy mode or training, no problem, but don’t expect to reap the same rewards as those that do it the other way.

But remember, I’ve never asked for the same quantity of reward. I fully expect to receive less reward per time spent in easy mode, it would just eventually add up to the same goal. It’s basically like you’re saying “I went to four years of law school, and here this plumber is saying that he should be making US dollars just the same as me! Th nerve of him!” Well of course he makes dollars, he’d just make less dollars per hour, and if both of you wanted to get the same fancy car, you could, it would just take him longer to save up than it would you.

Ohoni.6057:

Sure, but you can also craft them yourself with no RNG, and the RNG odds of getting them from higher tier Fractals is likely to make it take much less time to get a drop that you can at least stat-swap for what you want than it is to earn one using Mangetite shards form an easy mode Raid.

Crafting is much more expensive that 30g. If I had to choose between running some content 10 times to get a fixed non-RNG reward over running some other content an unspecified amount of times to get through some bad RNG, then I’d pick the fixed always.

I was thinking more along the lines of taking 10-20 hours of repeating the easy mode raid, over a period of weeks, to get that far along in the process. Possibly even more than that.

Check the collection achievement for the legendary armor precursor it’s very standard.
Here it is: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor

I really think that you do, you’ve described a situation, but not why this would be a problem.

Read it again then, I described the problem not a situation. Giving higher quality rewards in lower difficulty content is a dumb move.

Linken.6345:

Why do it matter to you, if people want easier mode that take longer to earn the same stuff you get in normal?

Take a look:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor

It rewards a full ascended armor set with stats of your choice. Filling the collection if the bosses were T1 fractal difficulty would take approximately ~20 minutes, maybe less.

20 minutes for a full Ascended armor set with stats of your choice. For every player in the game. Why run anything else in the game? Especially anything that is higher difficulty than T1 fractals, like maybe T3/4 Fractals?

This isn’t hurting just Raids, it hurts the entire game.

Its like talking to a wall…..I’m out, you win.

You aren’t the target audience for the easy mode, and I’m told that means you aren’t allowed to hold an opinion on it.

It wouldn’t necessarily delay new wings, we don’t know how much time it would take or who would be working on it. They managed to build the Super Adventure Box on their own time between other projects, I’m sure they could find the time to juggle a few databases without gumming up the works too noticeably. It’s not like they would release the raid wing the instant it’s done anyway, there would be a period of run-up before that data, so that it fit into whatever marketing and other events were going on. For example if they finished it in the middle of Wintersday, they wouldn’t likely just dump it out then, because there’s other things happening at the time. They’d probably wait until mid-January.

And finally, I don’t much care whether you disagree with me getting Legendary armor through easy mode, because that has nothing to do with you. You get it how you want to get it, you have no say in how others get it, and if your happiness can only come at their expense, then their happiness comes first.

you are not the allowed target of raid, so what are you doing here? ah yes i forget, you want raid shinies…But i have to agree you’re quite persistent with that, even if you’re the only one wanting both easy mode and raid rewards at the same time. I’ve never said wantig non raiders unhappy, actually, i’m more than happy to bring more people into raid so that more people can have legendary armor. I just don’t want people like you having raid rewards without putting the same effort as raiders. And don’t talk about “but in easy mode i would be longer”… longer doesn’t mean same effort. it’s just grinding spamming 1 with your ideas.

You haven’t been paying attention. It’s about both. Training would not be my personal primary purpose in it, sure, but it would be some people’s purpose, and it should be functional for that purpose. There is a market for an easier raid as a training experience.

Sure, that’s why dev will put an easier boss as first wing boss. As a soft barrier to raid, and who can serve as a training purpose probably.

You’re also confusing “things you read” with “story.” The story includes the things you read, but it also includes the things you experience. The boss fights are a part of the story, because they are things that you experience along the way. That’s the difference between a game and a novel, the novel is just words on a page, a game is something you are a part of.

But since you want to tune down the boss, it will not be the same story, it will just be a poor sumary. Full mecanics and fear of wipe are part of the ‘story’. Your fights will just be a joke, because you want T1 or T2 level fractal, not more.

But an easy mode version of the same boss would allow you to focus on the boss’s mechanics without fear of party collapse, which is much more valuable. you can practice your basic DPS rotation on a training golem. The value in having an easy mode version of the boss is in learning “when the boss does this, I should do this. . .” and banking that reaction into muscle memory.

We’ve already told you, you don’t learn with mecanics just tuned down to a level where no death can happen. You would just go through with heal, and not paying any attention. And so, with normal boss, you’ll wipe, until you learn. So, no need to easy mode raid for training purpose. But again, i don’t forget that your primary purpose is raid rewards. And you’ll never stop arguing until anet email you the envoy armor.

" And you’ll never stop arguing until anet email you the envoy armor"

And….mic drop.

Joxer.6024:

Its like talking to a wall…..I’m out, you win.

Indeed. Very dense.
Problem is there’s new victims taking the bate in these forums every now and then which keeps him going and saying the same things over and over again.

And after some time anet closes the thread because they also see it’s going around in circles, same discussion ending with only a few ppl all talking to walls and still don’t know how to listen or know when to stop making a fool out of themselves and making the forums an unpleasant place for other players.

most ppl dont raid because of the toxic ego raid community its the same with monks at gw1 mallyx all over again….

Crafting is much more expensive that 30g. If I had to choose between running some content 10 times to get a fixed non-RNG reward over running some other content an unspecified amount of times to get through some bad RNG, then I’d pick the fixed always.

It would probably take more like twenty times, and also, everyone agrees that the current crafting prices for Ascended is too high, but that’s the economy guy’s fault, and shouldn’t be a reason to not have them available to easy mode raiders.

Check the collection achievement for the legendary armor precursor it’s very standard.
Here it is: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor

Yes, but that’s for the hard mode raid. The easy mode would likely award fractional progress on each of those per attempt.

Read it again then, I described the problem not a situation. Giving higher quality rewards in lower difficulty content is a dumb move.

Again, why? You are stating a fact as if it explains an issue. It’s like you’re pointing at a guy and saying “he has a hat on his head!!!!!” Ok, but so what? “What? Are you crazy? That man, has a hat on his _head!!!”_ You are pointing out that players would be getting desirable rewards by running easy content, and implying that this would be a bad thing for some reason, but not making clear why that would be the case.

20 minutes for a full Ascended armor set with stats of your choice. For every player in the game. Why run anything else in the game? Especially anything that is higher difficulty than T1 fractals, like maybe T3/4 Fractals?

Because you want sets for the 2/3 of your characters that can’t wear whichever one armor you pick? Because you don’t want to have to stat swap the armor every time you trade it between characters? Hell, I keep The Ascension in my shared inventory just in case one of my other characters need it, and I haven’t even bothered taking it out yet. It’s not a big deal. Besides, do people actually run Fractals just in the hope that random Ascended armor will drop there?

you are not the allowed target of raid, so what are you doing here?

I’m not the target for hard raids, and I make no opinion about those. I am the target audience for easy raids though, which is what I talk about.

I’ve never said wantig non raiders unhappy, actually, i’m more than happy to bring more people into raid so that more people can have legendary armor.

You understand that this is not the same thing? That you’re basically saying “I have no problem with people who don’t like to drink, I’ve offered to buy them a beer whenever they like.” I mean it’s nice and all if you’re willing to help people learn to raid, if that’s what they want, but if people express that learning to raid is not what they’re asking for, you should respect that and help them to get what they are actually asking for.

I just don’t want people like you having raid rewards without putting the same effort as raiders.

Neither do I. I fully intend to put in every bit of effort you have, if not more, just in running easy mode raids rather than hard mode ones.

And don’t talk about “but in easy mode i would be longer”… longer doesn’t mean same effort.

Uhhgh, I hate to tell you, but it kinda does. . . : (

Sure, that’s why dev will put an easier boss as first wing boss. As a soft barrier to raid, and who can serve as a training purpose probably.

Again, as I said, an easier boss that have completely different mechanics than later bosses is worthless as a training tool for those later bosses. The boss needs to have identical mechanics, just with reduced penalties for failing them.

But since you want to tune down the boss, it will not be the same story, it will just be a poor sumary. Full mecanics and fear of wipe are part of the ‘story’. Your fights will just be a joke, because you want T1 or T2 level fractal, not more.

That’s your take on it, but again, you aren’t the target audience of easy mode. for the past forty decades or so, games have had multiple difficulty modes, and players have enjoyed being able to select the difficulty level that suited their tastes.

We’ve already told you, you don’t learn with mecanics just tuned down to a level where no death can happen.

And you’re completely wrong on that.

And you’ll never stop arguing until anet email you the envoy armor.

As I said, that would not even slow me down. I want the easy mode raid, even if they did mail me the armor.

I feel bad for the dev who posted on this thread, Ohoni is gonna send mail to his house requesting easy mode.

Ohoni.6057:

I’m not the target for hard raids, and I make no opinion about those. I am the target audience for easy raids though, which is what I talk about.

Easy raids are called, “fractals.”

Ohoni.6057:

everyone agrees that the current crafting prices for Ascended is too high, but that’s the economy guy’s fault

Actually, everyone does not agree that prices are too high for ascended gear. I’m not sure why you think that luxury gear should be cheaper. The existence of ascended gear is one of the things that allow newer players to earn from selling the stuff they don’t need; it’s certainly one of the reasons that mid-tier crafting mats are worth more than vendor price.

Actually there are no easy raids and apparently they aren’t getting implemented…..apparently there’s is no target audience for easy raids either LUL.

Ohoni.6057:

It would probably take more like twenty times, and also, everyone agrees that the current crafting prices for Ascended is too high, but that’s the economy guy’s fault, and shouldn’t be a reason to not have them available to easy mode raiders.

Now blame the economist. Go do this experiment, go to T3/4 Fractals and count the hours needed to get a complete set of armor. Let’s say the stats don’t matter because you can stat swap. I’ll be waiting for the results.

“Everything is too expensive or behind too much RNG, no reason for easy raids not to have them all cheap and not behind RNG” nice logic here.

Again, why? You are stating a fact as if it explains an issue.

You want to invalidate other sources of rewards, not just hurting raids but your objective now is to hurt ALL content in the game. You must really hate instanced content, or is grouping up the issue, I can’t tell.

Because you want sets for the 2/3 of your characters that can’t wear whichever one armor you pick?

Make it easy to get one set but don’t worry you’ll have to get it on more characters so it’s ok. Nice one! Maybe with the second collection you’ll choose another set, and then with the third one, the third weight that you missed!

But seriously, if your problem with the game is how expensive crafting Ascended is, or how hard it is to get Ascended through RNG then you can always go and make a post complaining about it. Asking for an easier access to what you need under the disguise of “I want easy mode raids” isn’t going to work, address your real problem.

You understand that this is not the same thing? That you’re basically saying “I have no problem with people who don’t like to drink, I’ve offered to buy them a beer whenever they like.” I mean it’s nice and all if you’re willing to help people learn to raid, if that’s what they want, but if people express that learning to raid is not what they’re asking for, you should respect that and help them to get what they are actually asking for.

but if people don’t want to raid, don’t want to learn, then what is the purpose? lore and story? so minimal aspect in raid, but i can understand it. Luckily, they have meaning to have raid story without raiding.
If they want, like yourself, easy raid for normal raid rewards, then i disagree. It’s fairly injust to actual raiders, and just so selfish to want rewards in an easier way…

Neither do I. I fully intend to put in every bit of effort you have, if not more, just in running easy mode raids rather than hard mode ones.

Uhhgh, I hate to tell you, but it kinda does. . . :

so tell me, how about spamming 1 for some time with whatever build / gear is more effort than learning raid, gearing for it, etc etc. Do you have a magical formul that transform time into effort? a formula fair for everyone of course, not just for you…

Again, as I said, an easier boss that have completely different mechanics than later bosses is worthless as a training tool for those later bosses. The boss needs to have identical mechanics, just with reduced penalties for failing them.

funny, that’s precisely what you’re asking for… different mecanisms so that no wipe.

That’s your take on it, but again, you aren’t the target audience of easy mode. for the past forty decades or so, games have had multiple difficulty modes, and players have enjoyed being able to select the difficulty level that suited their tastes.

so maybe you should go back to these games? because gw2 is not what you’re asking for, without multiple difficulty raids.

And you’re completely wrong on that.

wow, with such an argumentation, i trully accept you as the only one who got the truth in this game. More seriously, where are your arguments?

As I said, that would not even slow me down. I want the easy mode raid, even if they did mail me the armor.

So, let’s imagine. easy mode raids are here, without rewards because that’s just normal, but anet email you the envoy armor because some reason. What would be the purpose of this kind of raid? once you see the story, no reason to see it again. You would experience the boss, fine. then you would leave, because you have the shinies you want, and no more reason to “raid”. But you would have waste anet dev times, gg.

maddoctor.2738:

Linken.6345:

Why do it matter to you, if people want easier mode that take longer to earn the same stuff you get in normal?

Take a look:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_Armor_I:_Experimental_Armor

It rewards a full ascended armor set with stats of your choice. Filling the collection if the bosses were T1 fractal difficulty would take approximately ~20 minutes, maybe less.

20 minutes for a full Ascended armor set with stats of your choice. For every player in the game. Why run anything else in the game? Especially anything that is higher difficulty than T1 fractals, like maybe T3/4 Fractals?

This isn’t hurting just Raids, it hurts the entire game.

Wouldent that be perfect now the people who have run the easy mode raid know the encounters and on top of it got the gear needed to run normal raids. Win win