Guild Wars 2

Yeah Defiant would definitely change the meta, since you wouldn’t want to bring mesmers or warriors with mace offhand or thieves with pistol offhand or

Broadicea.8294:

Yeah Defiant would definitely change the meta, since you wouldn’t want to bring mesmers or warriors with mace offhand or thieves with pistol offhand or

1 mace shield hammer warrior with zerker stance, healing surge, signet of fury, other warriors with +50% crit on stunned enemies. Pure bloodlust stacks, power/critdmg food.

Reading comprehension is a lost art.

ManiumX.4735:

Reading comprehension is a lost art.

I agree. Where did yours go?

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Perception of classes and pugs are inconsistent and mostly wrong. Necromancer’s Blinds are pretty strong, but that’s it really.

Strong aoe blinds are cool but necro would be cooler if it was unique to them, and it’s not. Engineers and thieves have a ton of aoe blind and guardians can spam a fair amount of it. Elementalists also have some spammable blind with Lightning Hammer, a blind field with glyph of storm on earth attu and some other aoe blind on their weapons. You know the class sucks when one of the few redeeming feature is done by other classes that can also do practically everything else better than they do.

I tried to like necro but.. no. Just, no.

Nikaido.3457:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Perception of classes and pugs are inconsistent and mostly wrong. Necromancer’s Blinds are pretty strong, but that’s it really.

Strong aoe blinds are cool but necro would be cooler if it was unique to them, and it’s not. Engineers and thieves have a ton of aoe blind and guardians can spam a fair amount of it. Elementalists also have some spammable blind with Lightning Hammer, a blind field with glyph of storm on earth attu and some other aoe blind on their weapons. You know the class sucks when one of the few redeeming feature is done by other classes that can also do practically everything else better than they do.

I tried to like necro but.. no. Just, no.

That was the point of my post.

What blind does necro even have? Well of Darkness?

Plague.

Also the offhand dagger 4 skill which is a bounce, and underwater DS 2, its not outstanding, but ok.

Necro need some cleave dmg, even the first 2 spear autohits arent cleave o.o
whyyy?

AND REFLECT1111!!!

All wells are dark fields. Except Well of Blood. So you can chain blind fields if your not worried about might stacking. Obviously not the best solution but for some trash mobs blind might be a bit more useful than some might.

Well of darkness pulses blinds and is a dark field. Have Plague for 20 seconds of blind. And offhand dagger for a bouncing blind with condi transfer. Also have good access to weakness which does actually help a surprising amount especially when stacked with protection. Can also trait to chill on blind. Which reduces the frequency of attacks (More supportive damage mitigation). Unfortunately theres no situations where you really need every form of damage reduction possible. I do think weakness is good for dredge though and laurent in TAFF.

Plague of Darkness + Chilling Darkness would be nice, but it does not work (I wonder why – or does it ? Didn’t play Necro a while).

Pretty sure it does work. Definately worked a few months back when i tried it.

spoj.9672:

Pretty sure it does work. Definately worked a few months back when i tried it.

Good to know, it didn’t work for a very very long time. Played Necro since release but after the community being “omg necro sux” (war/mes/guard ftw) and being kicked from parties just for being a necro I jus gave up on that class 4 months ago – no fun that peaple look upon you with hate just becouse you play a necro.

i believe a few months ago, it was proven that thieves, not warriors, actually have the highest dps and were very much capable of doing anything a 4 war 1 mes party could do (at least, in CoF)

apart from that, i think people have more or less moved away from the idea that warriors are the only class that matters in pve ever since CoF’s rewards got nerfed, i’ve been seeing alot less posts asking for zerker wars and more of looking for experienced players in gw2lfg

@OP the warrior stopped being highest damage months ago. They have the highest displayed damage on GS and Axe… because people see 32k hundred blades and think they’re bad kitten .

The highest damage dealer is the engineer last time I checked. It’s hard as balls to play the build, but it’s there. I think ele follows eng… warrior’s in like the 4th or 5th spot, but I might be going off old information. I think there is class balance, but I agree that warrior has a much easier time doing close to as much damage as other classes.

Engineer isnt highest. Engi just has pretty good self buffing so they have good dmg solo.

And easy access to tons of Vulnerability, with a Grenadier build (which is the one used for DPS, i guess – not updated to Engi DG meta, sorry).

spoj.9672:

Engineer isnt highest. Engi just has pretty good self buffing so they have good dmg solo.

Engie is highest solo. In a group they’re actually one of the lowest, but they make up for it with all the support buffs they provide. A zerk DPS engie is about 9k versus a warriors 9.9k and a mesmer’s potential 14k.

There ya go, thanks for the correction. Point is, it’s relatively close for most classes, with a few exceptions. In PVE you don’t need optimal builds, or optimal team tactics. Just play with whatever you like running, play with whoever you like running with, and do stuff for fun. This isn’t a hardcore game by any means, if you’re trying to optimize dungeon runs you’re doing it very very wrong xD

hisssssssssssssss

Maximillian Greil.1965:

if you’re trying to optimize dungeon runs you’re doing it very very wrong xD

Have fun with your hour long dungeon runs

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

if you’re trying to optimize dungeon runs you’re doing it very very wrong xD

Have fun with your hour long dungeon runs

You think content should take less than an hour in any game? Besides, a group that isn’t optimized doesn’t mean it’s totally bad. A decent group, with decent gear, and non-specific classes or non-optimized builds can still clear stuff relatively quickly if the players are good.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

if you’re trying to optimize dungeon runs you’re doing it very very wrong xD

Have fun with your hour long dungeon runs

You think content should take less than an hour in any game? Besides, a group that isn’t optimized doesn’t mean it’s totally bad. A decent group, with decent gear, and non-specific classes or non-optimized builds can still clear stuff relatively quickly if the players are good.

So dungeons should take an hour or more, and if they’re faster well.. Ya’all need to calm the kitten down!

It’s all about how decent the players are. I can wear full pvt or clerics and whatever random traits, it’s cool because I’m such a decent player that all the damage numbers magically get buffed up to what they should be as if I was wearing zerker.

ok.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

if you’re trying to optimize dungeon runs you’re doing it very very wrong xD

Have fun with your hour long dungeon runs

You think content should take less than an hour in any game? Besides, a group that isn’t optimized doesn’t mean it’s totally bad. A decent group, with decent gear, and non-specific classes or non-optimized builds can still clear stuff relatively quickly if the players are good.

There is no reason to intentionally run non-optimal gear unless you’re bad. Content should always be cleared as fast as, or close to as fast as possible. There is no reason to intentionally make content take longer than it has to.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

if you’re trying to optimize dungeon runs you’re doing it very very wrong xD

Have fun with your hour long dungeon runs

You think content should take less than an hour in any game? Besides, a group that isn’t optimized doesn’t mean it’s totally bad. A decent group, with decent gear, and non-specific classes or non-optimized builds can still clear stuff relatively quickly if the players are good.

There is no reason to intentionally run non-optimal gear unless you’re bad. Content should always be cleared as fast as, or close to as fast as possible. There is no reason to intentionally make content take longer than it has to.

why?

Maximillian Greil.1965:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

if you’re trying to optimize dungeon runs you’re doing it very very wrong xD

Have fun with your hour long dungeon runs

You think content should take less than an hour in any game? Besides, a group that isn’t optimized doesn’t mean it’s totally bad. A decent group, with decent gear, and non-specific classes or non-optimized builds can still clear stuff relatively quickly if the players are good.

There is no reason to intentionally run non-optimal gear unless you’re bad. Content should always be cleared as fast as, or close to as fast as possible. There is no reason to intentionally make content take longer than it has to.

why?

Because get it

Maximillian Greil.1965:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

if you’re trying to optimize dungeon runs you’re doing it very very wrong xD

Have fun with your hour long dungeon runs

You think content should take less than an hour in any game? Besides, a group that isn’t optimized doesn’t mean it’s totally bad. A decent group, with decent gear, and non-specific classes or non-optimized builds can still clear stuff relatively quickly if the players are good.

There is no reason to intentionally run non-optimal gear unless you’re bad. Content should always be cleared as fast as, or close to as fast as possible. There is no reason to intentionally make content take longer than it has to.

why?

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

if you’re trying to optimize dungeon runs you’re doing it very very wrong xD

Have fun with your hour long dungeon runs

You think content should take less than an hour in any game? Besides, a group that isn’t optimized doesn’t mean it’s totally bad. A decent group, with decent gear, and non-specific classes or non-optimized builds can still clear stuff relatively quickly if the players are good.

There is no reason to intentionally run non-optimal gear unless you’re bad. Content should always be cleared as fast as, or close to as fast as possible. There is no reason to intentionally make content take longer than it has to.

why?

Because get it

There is no reason, short of posting a clear time on a webpage somewhere. If that’s fun for you go ahead, but the main point is PVE in this game is not competitive. There’s no “world’s fastest” achievement, there’s really no dungeon that requires specific classes/builds to be able to complete it. There is absolutely no advantage, short of saving yourself maybe 15 minutes, to run an optimal party. A decent party can clear stuff pretty quickly too, and it doesn’t have to be “PVE meta”

Maximillian Greil.1965:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

if you’re trying to optimize dungeon runs you’re doing it very very wrong xD

Have fun with your hour long dungeon runs

You think content should take less than an hour in any game? Besides, a group that isn’t optimized doesn’t mean it’s totally bad. A decent group, with decent gear, and non-specific classes or non-optimized builds can still clear stuff relatively quickly if the players are good.

There is no reason to intentionally run non-optimal gear unless you’re bad. Content should always be cleared as fast as, or close to as fast as possible. There is no reason to intentionally make content take longer than it has to.

why?

Because get it

There is no reason, short of posting a clear time on a webpage somewhere. If that’s fun for you go ahead, but the main point is PVE in this game is not competitive. There’s no “world’s fastest” achievement, there’s really no dungeon that requires specific classes/builds to be able to complete it. There is absolutely no advantage, short of saving yourself maybe 15 minutes, to run an optimal party. A decent party can clear stuff pretty quickly too, and it doesn’t have to be “PVE meta”

Driving to work with a car is no fun. You should walk to work instead! That is much more fun!(Your opinion of fun is irrelevant because only MY opinion counts) Why only take 15 minutes with the car when you could take 90 minutes by foot? kitten real life competetive speedclear people and their stupid RL meta…

There’s really no reason to start acting all high and mighty one way or another. If someone wants to play his own way then let him. Just don’t group with him.

The problem is those people who act like they are somehow entitled to be the only one in a speedclear group who isn’t contributing and act like victims when they get dropped for said lack of contribution. It’s the same (lack of) logic as those people who join a dungeon sell and refuse to pay then start ranting at you when you kick them.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

There’s really no reason to start acting all high and mighty one way or another. If someone wants to play his own way then let him. Just don’t group with him.

The problem is those people who act like they are somehow entitled to be the only one in a speedclear group who isn’t contributing and act like victims when they get dropped for said lack of contribution. It’s the same (lack of) logic as those people who join a dungeon sell and refuse to pay then start ranting at you when you kick them.

Oh I agree, but the topic is about class balance. The point I was making, the only way you can say the classes aren’t balanced, is if you’re running speed clears, which is not how the game was designed.

No matter how the classes get changed, how future dungeons get designed(hah, if ever), people will be attempting and doing speedclears. If a dungeon is really hard, an organized group will always be multiple times faster than a PUG/non optimized group. Most of the time, at least.

I don’t understand your point about classes not being balanced and the game not being designed for doing speedclears…?What do both have to do with each other? There’s hardly any games out there that are designed(specifically) for speedclearing.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

There’s really no reason to start acting all high and mighty one way or another. If someone wants to play his own way then let him. Just don’t group with him.

The problem is those people who act like they are somehow entitled to be the only one in a speedclear group who isn’t contributing and act like victims when they get dropped for said lack of contribution. It’s the same (lack of) logic as those people who join a dungeon sell and refuse to pay then start ranting at you when you kick them.

Oh I agree, but the topic is about class balance. The point I was making, the only way you can say the classes aren’t balanced, is if you’re running speed clears, which is not how the game was designed.

So basically the only way classes are balanced is when you don’t use them properly.

Hey guys, if you play badly enough, any class is good!

Sigh.

Stx.4857:

Sorry, but when I left the game 8 months ago, Warriors and Guardians were the only classes that were really in demand for dungeons, maybe the token Mesmer for their utility. Back then, I was told over and over on my thief or my necro, we dont need you, we need heavy dps.

I come back now, and start trying to run dungeons again and the same crap is happening… Nothing has been done to balance the classes in PvE.

Warrior still has the best dps, with the best survivability, and also has the option to play an amazing support role… Guardian still does great damage, has amazing support, and amazing survival skills. Elementalists still have amazing damage, great support, and can survive usually if the player is extra skilled, which is fine. Mesmer dps is pretty crappy still, or so I hear, but their skills make them wanted. Ok, I can deal with that, at least they have a role.

But what about the other professions? I was told today: “Necro will slow us down”

I am not condition specced, I am in full zerker gear with proper spec, runes,. etc. I feel that my damage is at least 90% of a warrior, but maybe I am wrong.

I know thieves can deal respectable damage, and thats great. But what do they bring that a warrior/guardian doesnt? Group stealth is very handy for certain dungeons, but is that enough?

Rangers are laughed at, Necros bring dps only and even that doesnt match the dps of warrior who also brings buffs and survival cooldowns, I dont know much about Engineers so I wont comment on them.

The point is, why has nothing been balanced? Why are some professions blatantly better in every catagory for PvE, for over a year now?

I just want to play my class, while contributing to my group, without being a burden to the Warriors/Guardians/Eles.

‘’Necro will slow us down’’ – Necro has insane amounts of DPS on their mainhand dagger, but it lacks cleave. it’s good versus bosses and the likes, but meh against trash mobs. To make up for that, they give plenty of support though

‘’Rangers are laughed at’’ – Sword/Warhorn ranger with frost spirit and spotter would like to have a word with you.

Both thieves and engineers are able to stack stealth (Albeit thieves do it easier) and engies have the ability to kitten vuln/weakness all over the place, making trash much easier to dispose of.

Mesmer DPS is the lowest ingame, but their superior reflects, great boon ripping, boon duplicating with null field and time warp makes up for it.

Elementalist is probably one of the most wanted classes in a good group, mainly because of the lightning hammer and fiery greatsword.

Warriors are extremely strong and argueably the best class in PvE, their banners provide excellent support, and axe pumps out immense damage.

Guardians also pump out huge amounts of damage when built properly (15/15/0/30/10 and 0/30/0/30/10 come to mind) while cleansing tons of conditions with shouts, and having a very good reflect skill, along with plenty of protection from the hammer as well as having a fair amount of blast finishers.

In the end, some classes are stronger than others in PvE, but they’re all viable. And the classes that are weaker in PvE make up for it in WvW/sPvP (Necro comes to mind)

xsquared.1926:

Both thieves and engineers are able to stack stealth (Albeit thieves do it easier) and engies have the ability to kitten vuln/weakness all over the place, making trash much easier to dispose of.

already capped by wars/mesmers

Mesmer DPS is the lowest ingame, but their superior reflects, great boon ripping, boon duplicating with null field and time warp makes up for it.

mesmer dps is lowest @trash mobs only….

Elementalist is probably one of the most wanted classes in a good group, mainly because of the lightning hammer and fiery greatsword.

Not true….
Fgs bug needs a wall or has 45+ CD….
To play this you need to be carried a lot.
Its really bad at fractals.

In the end, some classes are stronger than others in PvE, but they’re all viable. And the classes that are weaker in PvE make up for it in WvW/sPvP (Necro comes to mind)

2 professions are MANDATORY…
Wars and Guards are mandatory everywhere.

Ele is mandatory at AC and viable at coe 2-3….
Thief is mandatory when you need stealth.

Now because some profession are situationally viable you can t pretend they are OK.

You play a guardian or a warrior? wellcome to any party

You play another?
lets browse lfg for half an hour hoping to be fast enough to join those few spots left in parties…..

possibly lfg tools will give metrics to devs for that.

LordByron.8369:

xsquared.1926:

Both thieves and engineers are able to stack stealth (Albeit thieves do it easier) and engies have the ability to kitten vuln/weakness all over the place, making trash much easier to dispose of.

already capped by wars/mesmers

Mesmer DPS is the lowest ingame, but their superior reflects, great boon ripping, boon duplicating with null field and time warp makes up for it.

mesmer dps is lowest @trash mobs only….

Elementalist is probably one of the most wanted classes in a good group, mainly because of the lightning hammer and fiery greatsword.

Not true….
Fgs bug needs a wall or has 45+ CD….
To play this you need to be carried a lot.
Its really bad at fractals.

In the end, some classes are stronger than others in PvE, but they’re all viable. And the classes that are weaker in PvE make up for it in WvW/sPvP (Necro comes to mind)

2 professions are MANDATORY…
Wars and Guards are mandatory everywhere.

Ele is mandatory at AC and viable at coe 2-3….
Thief is mandatory when you need stealth.

Now because some profession are situationally viable you can t pretend they are OK.

You play a guardian or a warrior? wellcome to any party

You play another?
lets browse lfg for half an hour hoping to be fast enough to join those few spots left in parties…..

possibly lfg tools will give metrics to devs for that.

‘’Mesmer DPS is the lowest at trash only’’ – Phantasm AI is kittened (Wardens not running to their targets if said target moves) and they die fairly quickly if a boss decides to whiff in their general direction.

‘’You need to be carried for LH and FGS to work’’ One pull/knockback into the wall is all you need for FGS. LH has a BLIND AND BLAST on it’s autoattack and is great for might stacking. Ele is still extremely good in terms of raw damage and support without using FGS.

‘’Vulnerability is already capped by warriors and mesmers’’ – They’d have to use certain traits/utilities and give up other utilities to do that. an engineer can just lob grenades while pumping out huge amounts of combo fields that will benefit the party more than just vulnerability stacking. On top of that, they provide tons of stealth if needed.

Thieves can black powder certain trash mobs (dredge pls go) making it a lot easier for the group to deal with said trash. They also have extremely high single target damage like the necro does.

Necros are great for cleansing conditions and converting them into boons, while being able to support their party with wells. They also have the signet of spite (i think that’s the one that resses people) if things turn sour.

All classes are viable and good in the end, and as stated in my previous post; ‘’Some classes might be weaker than others, but they make up for it in spvp and WvW’’

Pugs need to get over the fact that 4 warriors and 1 mesmer is still the best meta. It’s not by a long shot.

xsquared.1926:

Pugs need to get over the fact that 4 warriors and 1 mesmer is still the best meta. It’s not by a long shot.

True, it’s 4 warriors and 1 guardian! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzlt7zDPjOo

I love when people conclude an argument with “get over it”. Right… why don’t we buff Necros to have warrior level support, and survivability, and let them keep high damage. Then nerf guardian and warrior support to almost nothing, nerf their survival, then tell them “your dps is enough” you are still ‘viable’…. see how that would blow over.

How is 4 warriors + 1 Guardian doing in lvl70+ Harpy fractal?

@xsquared…
check mesmer autoattack….
Blind i quite useless in pve boss fights
won t answer other points because viable is something that has no meaning.

We care of balance…
if a player have to press 1 and win while another has to be perfect to win a fight…both are viable, but the game is bad the same.

PvE has 0 balance we should not even discuss about that since its really clear.
Some professions are even pigeonholed in gimmick and unfun builds….
and this is a game.

A well played elementalist provides 5-25 vuln on foes and 12-15 party might and fury permanently while having highest damage output in the game. No carrying required.
If there are professions that are carried those will be necro, mesmer and ranger.

LordByron.8369:

@xsquared…
check mesmer autoattack….
Blind i quite useless in pve boss fights
won t answer other points because viable is something that has no meaning.

We care of balance…
if a player have to press 1 and win while another has to be perfect to win a fight…both are viable, but the game is bad the same.

PvE has 0 balance we should not even discuss about that since its really clear.
Some professions are even pigeonholed in gimmick and unfun builds….
and this is a game.

Mesmer sword autoattack doesn’t keep up 25 vulnerability, an engineer does.

‘’We care of balance’’ – So you want every fight to be won by just pressing 1?

‘’Some professions are even pigeonholed in gimmick and unfun builds….’’ – Example please.

I still think all classes are fine, to be honest.

Wow wow wow, how do you maintain 25 vuln as an elem??
Besides, if the elem is providing the fire field himself then he does not have the highest damage output of the game, he needs a guardian (or an engi…) for that.

Zelyhn.8069:

Wow wow wow, how to you maintain 25 vuln as an elem??

The vuln on crit -60% chance- trait doesn’t have any internal cooldown. Any skill like fiery rush, but also burning speed etc with ton of instant multiple procs will get 25 vuln just from the ele.

Right, that’s not what I call “maintaining”.
Also while the elem does that he is not wielding the hammer, so no fury, no might etc.
A hammer elem can maintain at best 4.2 stacks of vulnerability (with 100% crit chance)

Zelyhn.8069:

Right, that’s not what I call “maintaining”.
Also while the elem does that he is not wielding the hammer, so no fury, no might etc.
A hammer elem can maintain at best 4.2 stacks of vulnerability (with 100% crit chance)

Welcome to ‘Dub’ figures

Stx.4857:

I love when people conclude an argument with “get over it”. Right… why don’t we buff Necros to have warrior level support, and survivability, and let them keep high damage. Then nerf guardian and warrior support to almost nothing, nerf their survival, then tell them “your dps is enough” you are still ‘viable’…. see how that would blow over.

Then people would just switch to 3 necro and 1 warrior for banners or something. People who care will always use the best option.

Yeah I mean let’s face it. As an elem you can either:
-burst with FGS
-damage a lot and buff with LH, but requires to be carried
-damage decently and support with FA and focus

The first is good for speedkills mainly, the second is good for speedruns only, and the last is good for challenging content.

We can not do the three at the same time.

Yes I am emphasizing this a lot, because I don’t want any more nerfs for my beloved class (actually I want buffs, check my sig ).

I use gw2lfg every day doing average ~5 quick dungeon runs with my guardian. I have never seen discrimination in my groups like ‘’sorry we’re kicking you necro/ranger/thief/engineer/whatever because you aren’t zerk warrior’’. I’ve seen all classes do great dmg and survive in AoE/running parts of dung/etc. And I’ve seen players from warrior/guard classes( that some think are best) suck kitten because they don’t know how to evade and use poorly optimized builds.

Few times some ppl have questioned traits of a player ie. ‘’why do you warrior have a condition dmg wep instead of pure power crit’‘. Or ’’why you guardian use so many signets and don’t give us any retaliation’’. But in normal average day PUGs that do daily dungeons there is little to non discrimination. Ppl just run the dungeon and want to finish it quickly nvm what class the group consists and if you know dungeon gimmicks and tactics then you can do it hands tied naked while singing Macarena. Exaggeration that one but you know what I mean. After your initial learning run through new path you know how it’s done and can do it again with lessons learned.

Reason why you can sing Macarena is that GW2 dungeons aren’t like raids in WoW where you need specific builds/classes to complete. Boss battles don’t have enrage timers and whatnot. Sure there are posts in gw2lfg for just zerker groups that want only warr/guard/mes but those are minority maybe 20% or less of all posts from what I’ve seen.

One thing that I’d like to see getting better tho is Ranger Pets. They are pretty useless atm in dungeons getting killed quite easily even if you try to carefully keep them alive. Ranger still has great dmg potential without pet (quickness, barrage etc.) but Anet still has to shape up with the pet part.

Zelyhn.8069:

Wow wow wow, how do you maintain 25 vuln as an elem??
Besides, if the elem is providing the fire field himself then he does not have the highest damage output of the game, he needs a guardian (or an engi…) for that.

Before conjuring LH just use a blast combo, aswell as before picking a new one up. Doesn’t really lower dps at all.
Also notice how i was talking of 5-25 stacks, not permanent 25.