Guild Wars 2

rT’s team didnt have any prep. People were constantly online at different times. We will be restoring our reputation in the next tournies… Hopefully.

I really liked to watch the tournament and to know that ANet supported it too. It would be nice if the next new dungeons that they release they could invite some speedrun guilds to test it and make a competition. Lets suppose that they release a new dungeon in Maguuma, they could invite some guilds and stream they running through it, and add some rules like if the team wipes they get 30 secs added to their time and so on, so people would be more conservative about stacking squishier classes against a brand new challenge.

But i hope they dont add mechanics like that ooze escort in Aetherblade path, it would be boring watching a group getting stuck for half an hour trying to get the puzzle done.

Wethospu.6437:

How teleporting to the closest WP favor teams wiping on the first boss?

Think of pre-patch arah p1. I would rather wipe on first boss Ooze than on Lupi. Wipe on Lupi means running for 2 minute (before tar waypoint was added). Lots of situations like this in other dungeons.

If there are lots of situation like that then why did you name which doesn’t even exist anymore?

But yes, encounters are different and wiping on them will be different.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Wethospu.6437:

There seemed to be quite big home path advantage (you will very likely win your path even against a better team) so if you mess up on your path it’s pretty much over.

SC did well in paths that other teams selected, and rT has had pretty much every Arah path 3 record I can remember, as well as being the first guild I can recall to see stealth past the mobs at the gate. That didn’t prevent them from choking and snowballing their mistakes, though.

I usually understand your logic and agree with your points, but I honestly can’t even find the beginning of either in almost all of your posts in this thread. I think there was probably some initial arrogance on rT’s part, maybe the feeling of “we don’t need to practice, we are already better than everyone else” also probably coupled with an actual lack of time to practice. I’ve also heard, pretty much since the beginning of time, that in a lot of cases each member of an rT group treats the dungeon like they are soloing, so you don’t have a group working together, but rather 5 people working alone in the same relative area. I don’t exactly know what happened, I was disappointed to say the least, because I know that plenty of members of your guild are good players. Whatever it was that went on, I don’t think that the no res rule is the solution, because I can see plenty of other potential problems that should probably be addressed first and would have been trivial if they had been taken care of beforehand.

Point was that 2 paths don’t really give you much room to catch up if you mess up bad during your path because the other team has probably practiced their own path a lot (which gives them an advantage, especially on “not so well known” dungeons).

All I’m trying to say is, that giving teams more chances to catch up would result in better games.

There was no arrogance on behalf of rT really, we are not an “ego” guild! The tournament took place in the wrong month for us. But let’s no delve into extenuating circumstances. The tournament was really nice, all teams had memorable performances, and SC definitely deserves the win!

Wethospu’s thinking should be taken out of context. Let’s try to think about what would make competition more interesting

Goku + Wethospu + Purple Mikue trio vs a 5 man team?

Gyler.8150:

Goku + Wethospu + Purple Mikue trio vs a 5 man team?

No circlejerking please

I like spoj’s idea. After reading other peoples inputs on the subject, I think that giving people the option to hard res should be allowed. Some people may disagree with me, but I felt it was kind of lame watching FGS just have to give up because they lost ONE person in CoF P1. Res’ing that person was going to give Ren time to catch up regardless, I don’t think that losing one person should have all but guaranteed Rens victory in that path.

It also makes it similar to how speed runs were in GW1 (which makes me bias towards the idea). A full wipe = run over, but as long as one person is alive then the run should still be recoverable. (I’m sure someone is going to want to tell me that GW1 you needed a skill to hard res, so it was limited, but res scrolls became mandatory on every member of a party towards the end. )

No other opinions on giving teams the ability to ban 1-2 paths per match? This is done in most competitive games, such as counter-strike and starcraft, and MOBA’s such as LoL also have champion banning. Introduces another level of tactical play by giving teams the ability to ban paths that either they are really weak at, or that their opponent is really strong at.

Oh yeah i quite like the idea of banning paths. Just like league does it. Theres plenty of paths. If you only allow 1 or 2 bans per team you still have over 25 paths remaining to pick from.

There is a pretty huge champion pool in LoL, but not a huge selection of dungeon paths in GW2. Banning paths would probably just result in us seeing even more of the same thing. The only way I would really care to allow paths to be banned were if Arah Story and Arah path 4 were added as viable picks.

There are a significant amount of paths in GW2, banning 2-4 per match isn’t going to change much in terms of choice distribution. Look at counter-strike, a game with 5 map picks and each team is able to ban one of them.

If someone can be bothered, I think it would be interesting to observe the distribution of map picks from the tournament. Only sample the 1st and 2nd picks though, as the 3rd of every match was taken from a list provided by DnT. I think the data would show that having 2-4 paths banned per match would not cause less path diversity, but quite likely MORE diversity. That, or everyone will just ban Arah story and aetherpath.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

—
I like spoj’s idea. After reading other peoples inputs on the subject, I think that giving people the option to hard res should be allowed. Some people may disagree with me, but I felt it was kind of lame watching FGS just have to give up because they lost ONE person in CoF P1. Res’ing that person was going to give Ren time to catch up regardless, I don’t think that losing one person should have all but guaranteed Rens victory in that path.

It also makes it similar to how speed runs were in GW1 (which makes me bias towards the idea). A full wipe = run over, but as long as one person is alive then the run should still be recoverable. (I’m sure someone is going to want to tell me that GW1 you needed a skill to hard res, so it was limited, but res scrolls became mandatory on every member of a party towards the end. )

No other opinions on giving teams the ability to ban 1-2 paths per match? This is done in most competitive games, such as counter-strike and starcraft, and MOBA’s such as LoL also have champion banning. Introduces another level of tactical play by giving teams the ability to ban paths that either they are really weak at, or that their opponent is really strong at.

You know, one day you have to let that GW1 go. :P

In my opinion the tournament gamemode should be kept as much as possible like original dungeons. Extra rules should only be added for a very good reason.

But path banning sounds like a very good idea for me. Letting teams to ban some paths would keep matches more even as teams could avoid their least known paths.

Waypointing. Path banning.

Sounds casual as hell to me.

I agree.

Next tournament should be played without armor. If any party member gets downed rest of the team must /dance until he gets defeated.

idk about the waypointing but i quite like the path banning thing, maybe the number of paths banned can be adjusted or reduced if its a problem but i think it could be interesting, after all most if not all competitive games incorporate banning and it can be used offensively or defensively.

In my opinion the tournament was a great success looking at the viewer count.

As for the rez rule: In my opinion there needs to be some change made to it. That does not mean however that I think beeing able to rez should be allowed (IMO no rez should be allowed at all), however the teams shouldn’t be asked to complete the path even though the other team wiped.
We saw it happen for a couple of times and tbh. the runs turned out to be quite boring to watch.

So my suggestions are:

• No rez rule: If one team wipes, it is defeated, no matter where the other team is at the moment. The other team gets informed that they won the respective path and we move on to the next round.

• Rez “allowed”: A team can reset the dungeon any time they want (wipe, bug, player die, severe case of kittens). The amount of allowed resets may or may not be limited.

My reasons: Like I already said, it’s kind of boring to watch players beeing “forced” to complete a path without wiping. As soon as you get the message that the other team choked you’d be inclined to go for “super safe strats” like wearing clerics and 5 man ranging even the most easy of bosses, since you can’t lose due to time anyway.

The second suggestion comes from the fact, that resetting a dungeon (i.e. kicking the host, reinviting, rejoining, chosing the path, listening to possible RP from 300pound Chernobyl kitties and having “crucial skills” on cooldown, like FGS, Banner, Portal, Timewarp etc. will put you way behind already.

Overall I’d like option one more, just to show that the tournament is not all about speed, but about safe execution.

Regarding Brazils post:

While it is true that we had a couple of players in our group that have this kind of “soloyolo” and “notthispathagain” mentality, that’s not the reason why we made such re[Tards out of ourselves. The fact that we had effectively two evenings for proper practice, while the rest of our time got wasted by waiting for players who either didn’t show up, went afk, or prefered to do “certain activities involving a certain material” instead of showing up to preset practice times is what got us rekT so hard.
Of course I can completely understand it if you can’t come to practice, at least 3 players of our team currently have their exams, which resulted in an initial shortage in practice time. The thing that really kittened me off however was the fact that any form of organisation was made impossible, since people didn’t deem it to be proper to inform the rest wether they’re able or unable to attend to the practice time.

Overall I’m looking forward to the next dungeon tournament, hopefully with better preperation, more teams and less drama beforehand.

EDITH: We should discuss the conditions regarding a possible next dungeon tournament in a more BHB free enviroment. Don’t waste your breath arguing with BHBs hiding behind a wall of anonymity.

DnT forums or gwscr could work, as we have full moderation abilities on those hubs.

Was fun watching the recordings! Couldn’t catch it live at work, but the wipes were fun to see afterwards haha. And the shout casting was hilarious and kept it lively.
I think forcing a completely wiped team to restart would be alright for future tournaments in this matter, though. They would be far behind from having to redo everything, have skills on CD, but it would still put pressure on the other team to keep going and have a need to finish.

(Also Kudos to Ray from Ren — an old friend, and he mentioned before the tourney that he wanted to win the money I donated back. He even returned it to me today! Pretty awesome of him! :] )

Tree.3916:

Waypointing. Path banning.

Sounds casual as hell to me.

^^

I think the no death rule was supposed to promote thinking about something more than gungho speed runs. And the obscure paths was about creating an even playing field between the guilds who obviously have the speed running down and the teams who haven’t (props to Noob for SE2, i thought that was awesome).

If we’re going to ban paths, and make ressing ok, why not just scrap alternate rules all together, choose a few paths that people like, and just have a strait speed run competition on those? Why pick maps at all, just round 1 is Arah2, AC1, and TAup. Round2 is COE3, SE1, HoTW1, etc… best 2 out of 3.

Personally I wouldn’t be a fan of that, I can watch that on youtube for the record runs.

I do think the 3rd path rules for winners should be on any path, IE King should have the win on their first path for getting further. And I do think that once you’ve established such a win the path should be over and move on to the next, IE the people who wiped on first boss of AC story and then those who went on should have been the winners once they beat that first boss.

I think if they ran another tournament with these same types of rules you’d see some teams changing their decision making processes a bit so they don’t find themselves wiping.

Either way I think every team did great. You have to go for speed, wipes should be expected, it’s tough to go for speed and never make a big mistake.

Jerus.4350:

I think the no death rule was supposed to promote thinking about something more than gungho speed runs.

Allowing hard res’ing doesnt change that, we’re past the idea of waypointing.

Btw I just watched our Arah p2 [FGS] vs [vS] we cleared the techs to Brie because we wanted to be extra safe. Keep in mind if we wipe we are done, didn’t want to take ANY chances. We also did not practice arah p2 so I didn’t wanna risk a stealth miscommunication with every1 and ending in a wipe running past the elite risens with techs on our kitten .

Technicians are pretty awful yeah, if they fire at someone right before they start stealthing they will continue to channel their attacks at them even if the person is still stealthed.

Gratz to SC for winning the tourney, well deserved, guys! And GG to every team that took part in this, as unbelievable as it was, the PvE tourney indeed happened and it seems that many people enjoyed it. Looking forward to the next one!

Tree.3916:

Waypointing. Path banning.

Sounds casual as hell to me.

Arah Story was banned, wasn’t ’it? Personally, I only watched the end but I fell asleep during CoE Story. What was the reasoning for story modes anyway? They were designed by anet for one-time only adventure.

Don’t take me wrong. Neither me nor Weth have played “competitively” in pve for quite some time now and our feedback is strictly from a viewer perspective. No comeback rule is similar to what we have in pvp and viewers there also complain about the lack of possibility to recover making games extremely boring to watch after a certain amount of time has passed.

I am in favor of:

• A full wipe means your team lost the path (unless other team wipes at at some spot [same boss, CoE lasers etc] then both restart).
• Hard res should be allowed.
• Each team should get to ban / negate 1 path per round.
• 2 out of 3 path wins to advance.

Just my opinion on what I think would work out well for both viewers and competitors.

All in all it was crazy fun. I wish I could have wathced more of it live. Grats to SC!
Huge thanks to DnT for all of the organization!

Why not, after a full wipe, as long as the other team is ahead, the team that full wipes immediately loses and the round is over?

That way, the spectators won’t have to sit through an overly careful run.

I like the rule the way it is now. Everybody anticipated the 4-man = immediate lost in CoF p1.

I guess, it’d be interesting to know what’d happen if both teams ended up with 4-man party. Would whoever got into the gate event first win, or will the match be considered a draw?

I like Spoj’s suggestions. I think waypointing is silly, but I think the idea of allowing hard ressing is great.

Changes to format:

• Full wipe means you lose
• Can hard res any dead, no one can waypoint when dead
• If a team wipes and the other team makes it further in the dungeon, the run ends there with the further progressing team winning and we move on to the next match

This enables comebacks, hard ressing is slow and will cost you time, and like Spoj said it may not be worth ressing in all cases. What if one person is doing a skip and dies mid-skip? You probably are better served four-manning the dungeon from there rather than killing all the trash to get to their body. I think this would combine to create a much more amusing finale for some matches than having just one team complete the path after the other has wiped.

But ultimately I agree with Nike. That was a stressful tournament, and it was draining. I have only turned GW2 on a couple times since then, and yeah. We can theorycraft a bit, but let’s not make any official calls or whatever until people have had a chance to recover.

Agony.3542:

EDITH: We should discuss the conditions regarding a possible next dungeon tournament in a more BHB free enviroment. Don’t waste your breath arguing with BHBs hiding behind a wall of anonymity.

This time was a freebie Nike, but next time I’m charging 100g/hour for BHB moderation.

Anytime you have 1000+ viewers for anything you will attract BHBs. When the big pvp tournaments get going you always see BHBs saying “OMG kant belief any1 still plays dis game u sucks” so its no surprise to see “omg pve sux no skill lololol” for this. Easier to just ban them as they come imo.

Been thinking about… If you were to allow rezzing: Only one member is allowed to rezz. The others have to wait on the spot before they are allowed to go to the next boss. Changing armor to those “increase rezz-speed” shouldn’t be allowed.
Having to wait till one player rezzes the defeated player takes some time and should be enough of a penalty?

Celeste Lightblade.9253:

Been thinking about… If you were to allow rezzing: Only one member is allowed to rezz. The others have to wait on the spot before they are allowed to go to the next boss. Changing armor to those “increase rezz-speed” shouldn’t be allowed.
Having to wait till one player rezzes the defeated player takes some time and should be enough of a penalty?

I think this is a great idea

Penalties for a full wipe:

• 1st time – say the Holy Trinity of DPS prayer.
• 2nd time – go to the forums and complete a bingo card.
• 3rd time – RP walk the entire path.

Lucas.9157:

Penalties for a full wipe:

• 2nd time – go to the forums and complete a bingo card.

That goes too quick.

Maybe I’ve changed my mind about the ressing thing. Maybe it should be allowed. I guess the time it takes to hardres is punishment enough.

I think allowing hardressing is fine. The time you lose is punishment enough, and while watching parties wipe is funny (and embarrassing for the guild) it gets boring really quickly.

I know this turned more into a duscussion on how to impove the rules, but thought I would throw in this. I actually recorded my own PoV throughout the entire tournament (Guardian). Just finished edititing the last video, here they are in case you are interested in seeing it

The commentary form the livestream have been added, to make it a little be mroe exciting.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWGAKsyKYGYRnWJ4SbkjvPK2kWWzJz7pY

Do you have got any video of your arah p2 run against us?

Abe might have it on his past broadcasts, but it wasn’t that great to be fair, I failed hard at lupicus xD (guess it was 12min or so). I was the guardian for that arah p2.

Can you send it me via PN? Would be nice

DennisChrDk.9823:

I know this turned more into a duscussion on how to impove the rules, but thought I would throw in this. I actually recorded my own PoV throughout the entire tournament (Guardian). Just finished edititing the last video, here they are in case you are interested in seeing it

The commentary form the livestream have been added, to make it a little be mroe exciting.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWGAKsyKYGYRnWJ4SbkjvPK2kWWzJz7pY

It would be much funnier if you have left the TeamSpeak chaos recorded. Abe’s whining is the best. Aren’t you gonna submit SE p2 for the record as well (11:26) ?

Someone submitted a bit before the tournament ended a time of 9:38

Jeremlloyd.6837:

Someone submitted a bit before the tournament ended a time of 9:38

Oh noe… Never knew SE p2 would be so hot.