Guild Wars 2

Rislod.7120:

For the record :

Exotic armor in general is around 3.5g a piece
So that’s around 14 runs of CoF @ 26s per run, but you can easily get 3.5g @ 10-12 runs including drops and Gate of Flame event.
For a full set, you’d need ~60 runs

Lowest piece of exotic armor (Flame Legion) is 180 tokens which is 9 runs of CoF @ 20 tokens per run. You need 1380 for a full set which is ~70 runs.

Now take into account Armor repair. Let’s say ~3-4 runs you need to repair @ ~10.5s per repair.

If you are going for Exotic Gear:( (350s x 6 ) + (10.5s x 15)) / 26 = ~90 runs @ 26s
If you are going for Flame Legion Exotic in tokens: 1380/20 = ~70 runs @ 20 token
Flame Legion set effectively costs : 70 × 26s = 18.2g
In terns of gold, Flame Legion average per piece would then be : 18.2g/6 = 3g
However, including repair costs, Flame Legion set would then be : 18.2g + (10.5s x 18) = 20g 9s
Then the average Flame Legion piece would be : 20g 9s / 6 = 3.35g

Flame Legion exotic set : 20g 9s
General exotic set : 21g

So instead of farming dungeons the old way to get the same equipment at roughly the same amount of time what does one have to do? :/ I just want my exotic set nao so that I can do the things that I want after. I know it doesn’t make that much of a difference but I’m just like that.

@Leo Paul
Off the top of my head at 12:44 AM, i really don’t know.

100% Map Completion is a good way. at level 80, i started clearing every zone, racked up a couple g’s, the rewards i also sold for a good 3g-6 g

Ok thanks I’ll try doing hearts again. I just felt it was so tedious and slow doing heart quests to get exotics than grinding CoF but I’ma give it another try.

Exploring includes killing mobs along the way, encountering some DE, and also crafting materials that you can harvest and sell on TP .

If i wanted to butt my head against content for hours and hours after spending more hours rushing to level cap I’d play one of the various other games that offer this. I thought this game would be different, it certainly gave me that impression especially after reading that article on endgame. I was lookin forward to dungeons because thats one of the few activities guildies can do together that usually dont require too much skill at least when levelling up. I am just so dissapointed in how they have turned out and I’m only talking about the first few, i dont want to even see what the rest are like.

here are some excerpts from their own website; (i realise this is mostly marketing talk)
The risks are immense but the rewards are great for those who brave the hazards of the dungeons of Tyria. translation - you will die alot and waypoint zerg many times and not get enough money from the dungeon to cover repair bills.

During your first visit to a dungeon, you’ll experience story mode, which focuses on the ongoing saga of the iconic members of the legendary band of adventurers, Destiny’s Edge. translation - you will see Rytlock run ahead and agro mobs, die alot and meet up with Eir who much like Rytlock barely helps you kill anything, some heroes they turned out to be slain by a few ghosts…

There are tremendous risks for those who brave the dungeons in Guild Wars 2, but the rewards are great—each dungeon has its own unique armors and weapons that can’t be found anywhere else. translation - You will have to run these dungeons 40-50 times to get a complete set of this awesome looking stuff and you will be severely in debt from the repair bills possibly forcing you to buy gems with $$$ to convert into game currency to cover the cost. (i admit a small exaggeration on that last bit.)

I don’t want to take anything away from people who find these dungeons challenging, or gasp too easy but im kinda guessing much like any other MMO they are the minority. Blizzard realised this mistake after Vanilla and BC that they were making all this great content but hardly anyone was seeing it, and considering the majority of players of any game are “casual” why would anyone design any part of there game to scare them off.

I am just so dissapointed because I feel anything but an organised group of experience mmo’rs will just falter and leave group within the first 10-15 mins. That’s your player base right there, people who dont have hours and hours every week, they dont want to always play to be the best, they want to enjoy themselves not constantly die over and over for almost no reward just to see a small portion of the game.

Rainzar.6905:

If i wanted to butt my head against content for hours and hours after spending more hours rushing to level cap I’d play one of the various other games that offer this. I thought this game would be different, it certainly gave me that impression especially after reading that article on endgame. I was lookin forward to dungeons because thats one of the few activities guildies can do together that usually dont require too much skill at least when levelling up. I am just so dissapointed in how they have turned out and I’m only talking about the first few, i dont want to even see what the rest are like.

here are some excerpts from their own website; (i realise this is mostly marketing talk)
The risks are immense but the rewards are great for those who brave the hazards of the dungeons of Tyria. translation - you will die alot and waypoint zerg many times and not get enough money from the dungeon to cover repair bills.

During your first visit to a dungeon, you’ll experience story mode, which focuses on the ongoing saga of the iconic members of the legendary band of adventurers, Destiny’s Edge. translation - you will see Rytlock run ahead and agro mobs, die alot and meet up with Eir who much like Rytlock barely helps you kill anything, some heroes they turned out to be slain by a few ghosts…

There are tremendous risks for those who brave the dungeons in Guild Wars 2, but the rewards are great—each dungeon has its own unique armors and weapons that can’t be found anywhere else. translation - You will have to run these dungeons 40-50 times to get a complete set of this awesome looking stuff and you will be severely in debt from the repair bills possibly forcing you to buy gems with $$$ to convert into game currency to cover the cost. (i admit a small exaggeration on that last bit.)

I don’t want to take anything away from people who find these dungeons challenging, or gasp too easy but im kinda guessing much like any other MMO they are the minority. Blizzard realised this mistake after Vanilla and BC that they were making all this great content but hardly anyone was seeing it, and considering the majority of players of any game are “casual” why would anyone design any part of there game to scare them off.

I am just so dissapointed because I feel anything but an organised group of experience mmo’rs will just falter and leave group within the first 10-15 mins. That’s your player base right there, people who dont have hours and hours every week, they dont want to always play to be the best, they want to enjoy themselves not constantly die over and over for almost no reward just to see a small portion of the game.

I hate to admit it, if this trend continues, the only reason I’d have to log into Guildwars2 is to PVP just like I did with guildwars.

PVE endgame content is just not there.

Guildwars what do you have?
*Fissure of Woe
Underworld
Urgoz
The Depths *

They don’t interest me at all because…
1) its hard to find a group that wants to do them
2) the rewards are barely there
3) it relies on boring game mechanics.

Guildwars 2 Endgame Dungeons
Make it absurdly hard and scare away everyone to the point
1) its too hard to find a group that wants to do them
2) the rewards are barely there
3) relies on voip for real time calls on heals, field combos and rally assistance, AKA relying on boring game mechanics.

It has stated before it wants to be dynamic in terms of game play where players notice whats going on around them, when I play with another ranger, I see a healing spring and my hp is low, I run into that healing spring, when I see someone set up a fire field combo, I leap into it and gain fire aura. I don’t need people telling me they’re gonna set a field up so i can queue my skill and combo it like a prerehearsed routine.

And where do people get this perception of casuals being skilless players?
Just because you dont dedicate 8 hours a day and warp your schedule to meet your gaming communities’ doesnt make you skilless.

If I can get into a team of good casuals who dont rely on VOIP, who observe whats going on, and can coordinate a spike on a single target. Then isn’t that how they wanted their game to be? To have a variety of non cookie cutting combos that will soon be meta?

Never thought I would go back to WoW.

/Quit.

Queensdale used to be alive with people running with CM story. Now the chat is everyone trolling each other, most likely bored due to the decimation of a great bit of leveling content.

Welli am only lvl 47 and tried CM for the first time yesterday. I am only a casual player and love the world and the way everything is structered.

I’m a guardian. Mace/Shield and Sword/Focus with shouts and lots of toughness and vit for suvivability.

One hit and knocked down so many times i forget how many. Had to fully repair several times. Didn’t even finish the dungeon cause the 2 high levels i was with quit before the end.

Is this how it’s spose to be? I certainly don’t want to ever try another dungeon.

I’m sorry but the game has not really improved isnce realease. Stability has improved and thats it

I’m confused. You’re saying that dungeon should be one of the most efficient way to level and get gear. How can that be? Say each path takes 40 minutes – 1 hr to complete. You get diminishing returns for each path, so your exp is nerfed unless you keep changing it. But unless if you belong to an elitist lvl 80 already geared group, you would prob die alot trying to figure out game mechanics in a pug group, taking new paths each time. Thus your repair cost will be more than the rewards you get. Oh wait, lvl 70s suppose to do all this to get a few lvls? haha I think w/ this new patch, dungeons are the LEAST rewarding content for gear and exp. If you want to stick to your philosophy of good exp and gear, you need to either nerf the other more difficult paths or boost the rewards on paths that takes longer. What you have done is both increasing difficulty and decreasing reward.

Anet true colors come out, plain and simple guys here are the facts the game does not cater to casuals like they said, it is actually for “fanboys” and “elite groups”

1. lower dungeon rewards to not even cover travel cost and repair cost
2. go broke
3. look at gems at gem store
4. convert gold
5. Anet happy, they made money

They don’t care for the majority of the player base they only care about the hardcores and fanboys

You already bought the game they could careless what happens now, they are too proud to admit mistakes specially when a good chunk of players don’t like the changes they make, but again they don’t care you already bought the game and they made their money.

Its wrong to have your own version of fun didn’t you know that, only Anet dictates what kind of fun you should be having, ohh and don’t forget the fanboys they will tell you that this is fun because Anet said so

Kurzick.6375:

Anet true colors come out, plain and simple guys here are the facts the game does not cater to casuals like they said, it is actually for “fanboys” and “elite groups”

1. lower dungeon rewards to not even cover travel cost and repair cost
2. go broke
3. look at gems at gem store
4. convert gold
5. Anet happy, they made money

They don’t care for the majority of the player base they only care about the hardcores and fanboys

You already bought the game they could careless what happens now, they are too proud to admit mistakes specially when a good chunk of players don’t like the changes they make, but again they don’t care you already bought the game and they made their money.

Its wrong to have your own version of fun didn’t you know that, only Anet dictates what kind of fun you should be having, ohh and don’t forget the fanboys they will tell you that this is fun because Anet said so

I completely agree.
The fanboys are getting extremely annoying.
Too blind to see that these updates are ruining the game.
There’s already a lot of talk about these updates from others on Massively.com, PCgamer, and many GW2 fansites.
I have already read people telling others to not buy the game right now and wait.
I don’t know why the minority is saying “Oh this update was needed”, “Oh stop crying”, etc.
This game is getting bad press because of these updates.
Are you going to say that’s okay too now?

To the dungeon designers and developers:

I suppose you understand that by having it easy(speed run) on the first place, which allowed a lot of players to acquire the armors in no time, then making it quite hard to the point normal geared people can’t do it you do give an advantage to the players that already got their armor sets?

You talk so much about balance and a shop that gives no gameplay advantage but yet you do such a mistake and ruin your own purpose. Now these players can farm even more and get even bigger advantage, economy wise too which even seems intentional to me. It’s like you wanted the players who stay online lots of hours to get this gear quickly, since you know they will be investing a lot of time in your game, so they can feel rewarded. A casual player probably wouldn’t rush and take the gear in two days.

Anyway I hope it was a mistake and you will get things better eventually. It’s in your hands to make this game a success, or ruin it.

Kurzick.6375:

Anet true colors come out, plain and simple guys here are the facts the game does not cater to casuals like they said, it is actually for “fanboys” and “elite groups”

1. lower dungeon rewards to not even cover travel cost and repair cost
2. go broke
3. look at gems at gem store
4. convert gold
5. Anet happy, they made money

They don’t care for the majority of the player base they only care about the hardcores and fanboys

You already bought the game they could careless what happens now, they are too proud to admit mistakes specially when a good chunk of players don’t like the changes they make, but again they don’t care you already bought the game and they made their money.

Its wrong to have your own version of fun didn’t you know that, only Anet dictates what kind of fun you should be having, ohh and don’t forget the fanboys they will tell you that this is fun because Anet said so

I’M a fan boy! I hate WoW. And I refuse to believe Anet has forgotten or is ignoring their player base. However, I DO think they really screwed the kitten up on this one… My belief in Anet is wavering.

I feel with each nerf like this they seem to be setting things up to push people into using the cash shop. I would not be surprise if they came out with a ton of new cash shop items like skins and the like.

Make it hard for people to get rewards in game then just toss some easy to get rewards in the cash shop.

They already seem to be nerfing ways to earn in game gold via crafting.

Veneratio.1980:

Welli am only lvl 47 and tried CM for the first time yesterday. I am only a casual player and love the world and the way everything is structered.

I’m a guardian. Mace/Shield and Sword/Focus with shouts and lots of toughness and vit for suvivability.

One hit and knocked down so many times i forget how many. Had to fully repair several times. Didn’t even finish the dungeon cause the 2 high levels i was with quit before the end.

Is this how it’s spose to be? I certainly don’t want to ever try another dungeon.

Guardian here, been doing explos since I hit level 35 and level all the way to 80 doing mostly explos. Still have to complete 2 paths in CoF/CoE and left Arah and HotW for later since I’ve been doing the earliest ones but I’m going after the Dungeon Master Achievement so I have in mind to take these ones I have left soon (others I’ve done all the paths, several times).

I always play with random people, without voice coms and most of the time (if not always) I’m the one explaining the strategies for encounters or events, and have developed/found out most of them myself (only in CoF was taught the path since I joined a run group and they want to hurry up so I just follow them) or found them as long as playing with others, together.

Since difficulty is something relative to the person having the experience, it’s not wise to say that something is “hard” or “easy”, people have different levels of tolerance and different backgrounds. But it’s just a matter of time and effort to learn how to play better and be more helpful. I haven’t had much problems in any explo, you just need to keep in mind: Use dodge a lot, learn monster patterns, use weapons/utilities that help your party with crowd control or damage mitigation (as a guardian, most awesome ones are “wall of reflection”, “shield of the avenger” for range damage encounters since it neglects most of them).

I run explos with damage build (power, prec, vit) using mainly greatsword and changing my other weapon set depending on the situation I have to face.

My advice to you, as a guardian: Mace isn’t right now as worth it as other weapons are, Toughness/Vit gear is for pvp mostly, not for pve since you can neglect or mitigate damage with your utilities. Pve is best to run full damage gear an just dodge as need (also with right traits you can keep a vigor buff on you when doing crits, so dodging it’s quite easy, also using energy seals for when weapon swapping recovering endurance).

You complain a lot about difficulty, but most of you have only tried a couple of times to do explos, I’ve done more than a hundred explos until now and also my background is different than yours, so just either keep on trying with different people and different strategies, find someone that can teach you, or hope that Anet puts other difficulty modes so you find one suitable for you (I wouldn’t like that to happen though).

My only complain about last patch was the money reduction, since it was being a really great income for me, but I couldn’t try to play some yesterday so I don’t know how is going to affect me yet.

Only hope you guys find out ways to do things that satisfy you when playing, or make you have fun. Otherwise playing is pointless, I can give you advice or tell you what I do if it helps but in the end, it’s best if you find out your own answers and ways to play the game.

Hope you have fun with anything you do! Cheers!

tribeca.3729:

I feel with each nerf like this they seem to be setting things up to push people into using the cash shop. I would not be surprise if they came out with a ton of new cash shop items like skins and the like.

Make it hard for people to get rewards in game then just toss some easy to get rewards in the cash shop.

They already seem to be nerfing ways to earn in game gold via crafting.

another one who sees the light, RIGHT ON!!! brother

Hell the gate to CoF went from dozens of people looking for group to like a hand full of people there over night.

If you are trying to discourage people from speed runs and grinding one path the only realistic solution that makes sense is:

ONE Piece of Armour each time you completed ALL paths of one dungeon.

This will make people run ALL of the paths 6 times. A reasonable and perfectly balanced amount of time.

Make it so you can complete only once a day** and you end up with: One week to get a set of armour for the hardcore. 3-4 Weekends for casual players.

**You can still do the dungeon more than once a day but you only get the armour/weapon reward once a day.

You see how easy it is to balance content, remove grind and still make the game rewarding?

Use your brains ANET, for once, please.

So A-Net you made 2 Dungeon Modes: Story and Explore.
Explore Mode: very hard, gives items / money / exp /dungeon sets -> there is a reason to run them more then once if you want do have any of these, but you want to make them hard so only “good teams, with good teamplay and special dungeon builds can run them” (that´s what one of the mods said)

Story Mode: decent hard (some random groups still fail or die often and rage quit etc not fun for all people), no good items, some exp/money (BUT only the first time, they give lower money/exp if you repeat them since the new patch)

So if im a causal gamer and can´t / don´t want to run a elite group to farm explore, I cant do any dungeons because the Story mode dungeons gives almost no reward if you repeat them, is that what you want? Do the Story once and then go elite group or gtfo?

I dont want epic gear in Story mode, but please give us some better rewards atleast more exp.
After the update most Story mode dungeons with a random group take 1h+
Bevor the update I run them often just to get some exp/fun (you said you can lvl anyway in gw2 so why not in dungeons?) It was awesome bevor the patch, ok maybe the lvl 40 one was a little to fast, but the nerf is to hard give us back some exp)
Right now there is no reason to do Story mode for me, atleast not more then once, I can get more exp/money/fun if I run 1h doing quests/event then wasting 1h+ in dungeons to get almost no exp/money reward.

Please A-net answer me one question, do you think it is fun to run a dungeons and dont get and item/exp/gold reward for spending 1h+ in it and maybe even lose money by repair cost?

and btw first fix the reward so the dungeons are worth doing again if done with that, please add a group finding tool, because spamming chat “lfg lfg lfg” isnt fun either

Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458:

If you are trying to discourage people from speed runs and grinding one path the only realistic solution that makes sense is:

ONE Piece of Armour each time you completed ALL paths of one dungeon.

This will make people run ALL of the paths 6 times. A reasonable and perfectly balanced amount of time.

Make it so you can complete only once a day and you end up with: One week to get a set of armour for the hardcore. 3-4 Weekends for casual players.

You see how easy it is to balance content, remove grind and still make the game rewarding?

Use your brains ANET, for once, please.

Best post ever, totally agree, 1 armor/weapon each you complete the 3 paths, they can be hard but at least you are know that when you complete the 3 paths you will get a reward, after this put a couple of super rare weapon/armor skin in final chest like UW it the people what farm the dungeon more.

But have to make the same dungeon 10-20 times to get only a weapon/armor set with no extra reward , the value of loot items is poor, no exotic 80 with the only purpose to be destroyed to get a 1 ecto, and this if you can get one yellow/orange item. The money reward is joke if you compare with the repair/travell money.

Is worse than make 100 run in Underworld or FOE to get a Crystaline or Obsidian sword, at least in FOE and UW you get money with ecto and obsidians etc… but in these dungeon you only waste time.

My guild in gw1 we ussualy do dungeons/fow/UW each day but now we complete some story mode dungeons, try explorable mode, complete some 2-3 times each, and we stop. I only have complete story mode in 5 dungeons to unlock explorable mode and the reason that my guild give when talk to unlock the other dungeons.

" why ? , yeah they are fun the first time but no 50 times after, but lack of reward, we only lost money to repair gear to get 30-20 tokens of almost 2000, the only thing that they would get is that the players grow tired of dungeons when they get 1 set"

I just want to say that in previously released mmo failures the pattern seems to be .
1) Issues are revealed by the community .

2) Posts are made by intelligent experienced players as to solutions to alleviate concerns .

3) These players are ignored as the developers feel they know there own game better and know whats best for the players .

4) This situation continues while the players cross their fingers that at least some of the solutions are implemented ,but instead the issues are patched but not fixed and bugs remain unfixed .

5) On seeing lack of community solutions being mostly ignored the well informed and talented players stop posting as they realise they are wasting their time trying to help the game succeed .

6) The core talented gamers give it a rest hoping to see improvements .

7) None of this is noticed until data is reflected upon by the developers and a sudden drop in activity within the game is noticed ,at that point it is panic stations and fixes are rushed out untested and break ore than they fix .

8) Seeing the talented players stop doing video content on tactics and builds and the various fansites having less coverage of the game ,the heavy gamers leave and all that is left are the casual players at this point there is not enough income to support all the future content dreamed of and the road to build it back up is to slippery and the game
never reaches its potential .

Do not be fooled by the no subscription ,every business need money flow to realise the dreams of the company .
If lots of players are active then the cash shop will be active and providing the income necessary to implement and improve content .
Players who stop playing and come back to it later will not be active in the cash shop and the income needed to replace the subscription will fade along with any potential the game had .
One of the main examples to show how longer term players will be forced to purchase from the cash shop is simply bank space .
Boosters and bank space amongst other things will be your subscription if you chose to become competitive in the long term.

From a developer stand point I can understand an assigned difficulty for an instance, especially with the limited choices end game; this could be an appealing path to take for gear.

Before the patch, I ran COF in about 20mins, died a lot, I’ll admit with all the deaths and kiting around that the dungeon it didn’t feel all that heroic. I would enjoy myself more if I can actually melee as a warrior in the thick of things slowly grinding them down vs. running like a coward kiting with a rifle.

In the end of said run I would receive 30 tokens, for something I wouldn’t consider fun. Even playing it in the version you claim that’s too easy I still wasn’t willing to grind out tokens doing the same thing over and over for 1000’s of tokens to get a gear set.

What you’ve done, at least for me is sealed the deal for me running another. Perhaps a large boost on token gain would entice me to prance around with a rifle once more but certainly not now in the current state.

RebelYell.7132:

Queensdale used to be alive with people running with CM story. Now the chat is everyone trolling each other, most likely bored due to the decimation of a great bit of leveling content.

This trolling you speak of, I have been a witness to it.

My block list is being put to the test without a doubt. Several people verbally sparring in map chat with others commenting, often causes scrolling so quickly that one can’t keep up with normal topics and civilized conversation (questions, LFGs etc). It’s “trash talk”, spam or whatever one chooses to call it. It serves no purpose in the game and I don’t want to be forced to read it. I block it, problem solved, hopefully, at least until my list becomes full.

I wish we had an option to do a temporary block since angry people may not stay angry. Comments/notes as to why we block others as well as the date/time they were added to our list would also be handy for management purposes. But then this is probably a subject best left for another topic.

Kurzick.6375:

Anet true colors come out, plain and simple guys here are the facts the game does not cater to casuals like they said, it is actually for “fanboys” and “elite groups”

1. lower dungeon rewards to not even cover travel cost and repair cost
2. go broke
3. look at gems at gem store
4. convert gold
5. Anet happy, they made money

They don’t care for the majority of the player base they only care about the hardcores and fanboys

You already bought the game they could careless what happens now, they are too proud to admit mistakes specially when a good chunk of players don’t like the changes they make, but again they don’t care you already bought the game and they made their money.

Its wrong to have your own version of fun didn’t you know that, only Anet dictates what kind of fun you should be having, ohh and don’t forget the fanboys they will tell you that this is fun because Anet said so

Ture Story!
I also like the fact. that they said “oh look all other games are grind they are so lame, look gw2 will be so awemseom there will be no grind it will be so much fun”
yet it was all a lie, if I want anything I have to grind either farming mats or dungeons or money etc
the dungeon system was the biggest lie no grind? a new reward every run? wait, what? where is that dungeon? because right now you have to grind even more then in any other mmo to get a dungeon set
(btw this is off topic but all the events are the same system. kill x mobs → grind mobs for exp)
dont get me wrong, I kinda like the game, I like the class system etc and i used to like dungeon butkittenwhy did you destory the dungeons with this new patch?

what the hell !! i just told my friend gw2 is really really really best MMO ever !
why u do thissss ? u ruin the gameeeeee. and now im gonna told them " its time for pandaria war " WoW time !

Rizzy.8293:

I hate to admit it, if this trend continues, the only reason I’d have to log into Guildwars2 is to PVP just like I did with guildwars.

That was what I was going to do but then I realized the alleged long wait times just to get into WvW, so I tried to do events which is also off putting because of the changes they did with it as well.

If players that support the changes are automatically “fanboys”, then I guess the players who don’t are just a bunch of whiners with no skill?

Fact of the matter is, majority of you have taken the word “grind” completely out of its scope. The game doesn’t force you to do the dungeons to get the armors in order to proceed, there are in fact many easier ways to get exotics. I got to level 80 and finished my personal story without having to do anything I didn’t want to, that means there was no grind. You do the dungeons over and over again from free choice, and that is not grind, unless you consider most of your life a grind, or even life == grind. In which case it hardly matters.

Getting these armors = end game. so en game is grind, simple.

UW really felt like a raid like you were going to hell and werent coming back until every thing was dead.
Explorables are more lik: oh there is this guy over there lets do a 20 minute walk get one shotted once in a while and the end up fighting a boss that is easier to kill that his minions

Wait so….people were farming to get the dungeon armor….for STATS?

face desk

Anet, i like you guys, but there is no reason to have any form of timed reward anti farming mechanisms. Dont punish players for playing the game.

balance the dungeons, make the difficulty where you feel it should be, but there is no reason why if you choose to do it repeatedly you should get less results for the same work.

Its a bad idea.

not to mention some say dungeon rewards (barring the few paths that were too easy) are already subpar, really kill the anti farm tactics, its a bad bandaid. If some one wants to run a balanced dungeon exclusively as he levels, he should not be punished for that.

I respect the attempts to make dungeons harder, however, Diablo 3 had exactly the same problem. Mobs 1 hitting you isn’t a difficulty upgrade, it’s just stupid. Difficulty should be focused on having good tactics to progress and do well.

It’s sad, as others have said on the post, that Anet have not lived up to their theory that ANY team can do all of the content. I don’t know about later story yet as mine is still bugged, but after the dungeon nerf a few of my guildies seem like they have lost the will to play.

The wiki has an amusing comment about re-imagining the endgame and how “we didn’t want to force you to master an entirely new subset of the game”. Surely having to re-trait, re-equip is EXACTLY what this is. There is much less skill flexibility than in GW1 and it’s also not as convenient to apply these changes as you need to w/p to retrainer etc etc.

Having now played 2 games recently from launch that get their teeth kicked in by devs it really prompts me to consider what the point is anymore in even considering a new/alternative MMO. At least Anet are trying to do fixes, albeit some of those are driving players away. I appreciate it can’t be perfect on day 1 but surely during the dev process they must have had some indication of how people would want/attempt to play/farm these zones.

Exploring remains fun but won’t last forever. Please please apply a proper fix.

As of right now, after reading this WHOLE THREAD, I am not logging in until dungeons are fixed and future patches are better.
At the moment the repair and travel fees outweigh the end reward, the loot is terrible and the fact that there is a cap to slow grinding is disgusting. If i want to spend a whole day off work grinding a dungeon i can. It makes me sick being penalized for being a dedicated player of the game and wanting to earn gold FAIRLY (im sorry but its not like any of us are hacking, exploiting, botting, gold spamming etc) by running dungeons that were OBVIOUSLY MADE to be run many many times. Its ridiculous.
I was soooo excited for this game, and up until this patch i adored it. I couldnt give 2 craps about the CoF path but everything else grinds my gears.

Overunity.4273:

I just want to say that in previously released mmo failures the pattern seems to be .
1) Issues are revealed by the community .

2) Posts are made by intelligent experienced players as to solutions to alleviate concerns .

3) These players are ignored as the developers feel they know there own game better and know whats best for the players .

4) This situation continues while the players cross their fingers that at least some of the solutions are implemented ,but instead the issues are patched but not fixed and bugs remain unfixed .

5) On seeing lack of community solutions being mostly ignored the well informed and talented players stop posting as they realise they are wasting their time trying to help the game succeed .

6) The core talented gamers give it a rest hoping to see improvements .

7) None of this is noticed until data is reflected upon by the developers and a sudden drop in activity within the game is noticed ,at that point it is panic stations and fixes are rushed out untested and break ore than they fix .

8) Seeing the talented players stop doing video content on tactics and builds and the various fansites having less coverage of the game ,the heavy gamers leave and all that is left are the casual players at this point there is not enough income to support all the future content dreamed of and the road to build it back up is to slippery and the game
never reaches its potential .

Do not be fooled by the no subscription ,every business need money flow to realise the dreams of the company .
If lots of players are active then the cash shop will be active and providing the income necessary to implement and improve content .
Players who stop playing and come back to it later will not be active in the cash shop and the income needed to replace the subscription will fade along with any potential the game had .
One of the main examples to show how longer term players will be forced to purchase from the cash shop is simply bank space .
Boosters and bank space amongst other things will be your subscription if you chose to become competitive in the long term.

Right on. Reminds me of SWTOR. That’s exactly what it was like from launch to patch 1.2. After patch 1.2, when certain changes were made and the attitude was we know better and our players don’t, the big mass exodus began and hasn’t stopped since.

SWTOR is a good lesson from an MMO company to learn what happens when you ignore the player base. It’s one thing to have hard dungeons, many expect it. It’s another thing to have hard dungeons with little reward, and entirely a different thing to have a hard dungeon where the reward is so far out that people don’t even try the to begin with.

Which reminds me of a second lesson from LOTRO – introducing dungeon token boosters in a cash shop will have the opposite effect of what you are thinking. There is a reason they didn’t live long there as the backlash, and lost players, was pretty hefty.

Just some words of wisdom.

I just completed AC story a couple of days ago, cool dungeon and very nice story but for the first dungeon it was tough going. We all kept dying especially on final King boss, it was literally hit him a couple of times..die…spawn…die…spawn. I died 11 times in that fight and my armour was broken when we completed him. The amount of repairs we had to do was nuts.

Don’t get me wrong I liked the dungeon but tone down some of it please especially considering that was the first “easymode” dungeon that people see for the very first time in the game, it can put people off (we did have people leaving cause they weren’t having fun).

Well said Overunity.4273 . This is exactly what i am afraid of !

“We also reduced the rewards of completing story mode, once you have already completed it, because the rewards for story mode were never intended to be a high as they were.”

So I’m being punished for not rushing to 80? Thanks -_-

Story mode should NOT have this level of difficulty. This is totally acceptable in explore thou, the rewards are already diminished to prevent farming so the buff to CM story was a little heavy handed. I ran it today, wiped 3 times but finished, its doable yes but leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

Honestly if problem is that ppl will stop dungeons after they gear up, why not just add more options for tokens from it. Change tokens for gold. Change tokens for remodel. Change token for gems. Change tokens for flying chikenbull. Or, change tokens for INSTANT WVW access teleport.
And really after seeing how great “eventful” all pve world is , i really cant believe they made chosen paths for instances…..

I am on board with change tokens to silver idea. 1 token = 50 copper?

Generally, I welcome these changes, BUT they still need some improvement. I like the level of difficulty, and I don’t really have any problems with working mykitten off to get those pieces of armor. I’m sick and tired of hearing people complaining like imbeciles about how ArenaNet took away their CoF speed runs. CoF is a fun instance, but it’s not the only instance I want to play. It was so hard to find a group for TA and CoE, because everyone was too busy cheating their way to get easy gold and easy tokens with very little effort. If you don’t call that cheating, then please get over yourselves. :P

It ruins it for other people who actually like to play, and not just make a dash to the finish line. It was never meant to be that way in the first place. I’ve never been kicked from a group because the idiot leader wanted someone who knew the speed run to begin with and didn’t even want to explain. That kind of immature, nub-level behavior isn’t cool at all.

I’m all for the recent changes, BUT PLEASE ArenaNetkitten if dungeons are going to be this hard, please make adjustments to the monetary rewards. I’m not asking for 1g each time I complete a dungeon, but I sure do hope it would be more than 20ish silver. -_-

This was by and large the worst thing I’ve seen a game do.

It’s amazin there is no reponse from Anet yet since yesterday where they actually posted in 2 of the main posts here on the forums. Either they are not much for admitting mistakes or they just want 95% of the community to getkitten off and leave the game.

95% of the community? You’re a real jester, aren’t you.

Fact is, community, at least part of it that care to post, gave some great ideas how to make game better. Hopefully they will look into that.

defi.4127:

95% of the community? You’re a real jester, aren’t you.

Count the posts and check how many want Pre patch back and how many are happy with this new patch.

I think i’m just about right there with the numbers.

defi.4127:

95% of the community? You’re a real jester, aren’t you.

With changes like these, they’ll be merging servers next month and going free to play!

It’s cute that you believe that, it really is. Over 2 million sold and you count the most vocal complainers as majority. Many people already stopped after level 80, yet there are still queues to WvW and I enter LA queue first before server. Sure, some players will stop, but most probably not the majority.

@Defi, In marketing enterprises especially when circulate around mass numbered service, majority to minority does not exactly promote a healthy product. Just take the 10% out of the 4 million people and you’ll see how much profit lies within that area. Your thoughts are completely mediocre and simple, perhaps when it regards game balance, majority vote would certainly play apart. However when we discuss game core mechanics, I’d stop riding democracy if I were you.