Guild Wars 2

I gotta try this CM Explore mode people are complaining about LOL.

I do agree that CM Explore was a joke before, but if they made is Hard, that is awesome!

well i just have one thing to say, dont go into explorable modes with the minimum level because you will be crushed and loose a lot of money with repairs

Dungeons are always my most favorite part of playing MMORPG’s. I don’t play these games to to play alone—that’s not what holds my attention. The social aspect is what I enjoy, so I want to regularly group with other players and (hopefully) make relationships inside the game that make me want to play the game more and more.

With that being said, the outcome of this part of the game will decide if I continue playing GW2. When I read the posts by the developers which portray they are going to punish or not allow players to run dungeons as the main part of their gameplay, I can’t help but think they’re losing some of their population.

Totally agree with the posts about the ill logic being used with dungeons here.

I’m running my first alt now to give time for ArenaNet to make more fun stuff to do but Jon’s post here makes me really think they just don’t understand dungeons for some reason… which is baffling to me because many other parts are fun. Clearly he says some are too easy, but only some MAY be too hard… and he says they didn’t mean to make a grind?! Wow. I guess Jon doesn’t run dungeons – OR hasnt looked at the dungeon gear prices. AND hasnt looked at what it takes to get legendaries. Because all of the above = bigger grind than I’ve seen in my last several MMOs.

I too will not be buying any more gems until some improvement is shown here. There are core issues at hand and the CEO is posting 50 page essays about security. I understand that’s important but also a misplaced focus from this customer’s point of view.

Meanwhile I’ll be in sPvP until that gets boring… so please hurry up Your ‘endgame reimagined’ touts getting away from repetition and treadmills but that’s all there is to do now in GW2 at max level… repeat the same events (fun the first few times to kill that dragon but come on), run the same broken/unrewarding dungeons, go farm in the one level 80 zone that is ALL undead with ALL mobs being Risen XYZ (some creativity please?!) – or snow trolls in Frostgorge… or grind Asia-market-MMO-style for legendary rewards. Ugh.

I want to fall endlessly in love with this game and have it be my home for a long time, I want to give you my money for gems when it makes sense… but you’re making it really hard!!!!!!!!

It was fun doing dungeons and actually grouping together before, with this update… Fun (the main reason you play games) has been sucked away from the game, you end up spending more money on repairs during the dungeon than the reward is worth. Comparing it to other games it is kinda sad where these dungeons are at. No point of investing in this game if the direction it’s headed in isn’t in the best interest of the customers.

Wooohooo want to second everyone complaining here… have played about 100 hours since start of the game and 30-40% in PvP, Dungeons were my only option to make a bit money and now, what ? loosing 40-60 min to do CM and ending up with less money when it’s finished… Great will take me two years to buy a 2 gold coin book to unlock traits… F c k off, from now on will be PvP only bye stupid Pve…

I like how you guys locked all the complaint threads and limited posting to just this one thread but you left up all the “kitten!! I LOVE THESE DUNJONS!!!” threads up and unlocked since they deal with the same thing they should be consolidated to. I bet you guys think it makes you look better for anyone looking at the forums. If your worried that your player base may make you look bad because they are complaining about your design perhaps you should be a little more proactive with your approach in the future.

I have played this game before but it was better when it was age of conan, and that’s saying something because as we all know AOC sucked balls.

The dungeons were fine before this patch. Now, they aren’t even worth the time of day. How in the world do you expect level 40’s to run a dungeon like CM when the enemies are busy being near invincible and all. It shouldn’t take me 40 minutes to run a dungeon like that. You want to talk about how much funner that this patch has made things, we’ll in my opinion you deserve a JOB WELL DONE on sucking the fun right out of dungeons. GG.

Lux.9135:

The dungeons were fine before this patch. Now, they aren’t even worth the time of day. How in the world do you expect level 40’s to run a dungeon like CM when the enemies are busy being near invincible and all. It shouldn’t take me 40 minutes to run a dungeon like that. You want to talk about how much funner that this patch has made things, we’ll in my opinion you deserve a JOB WELL DONE on sucking the fun right out of dungeons. GG.

Well, Arenanet considers sub30 minute runs to be fast, so 40 isn’t exactly slow. CM story isn’t any much harder than what it was before, maybe the tunnel area, but still easily doable.

3. Token system should NOT be universal. It encourages players to “take the easy way out” and play only one dungeon.

I disagree, making the tokens universal does the exact opposite of forcing a single dungeon on people. People can choose to spam a single dungeon /wing if they wish, but they can also choose to do whatever other one they like, in whatever order they like. Restricting particular items to particular dungeons on the other hand does exactly what you warn against – if a person wants a certain stat combo on their helm, they must farm the matching dungeon(s). Time spent somewhere else under this scheme feels as if it has been wasted.

This is essentially the same trap that I witnessed unfolding over at Diablo 3: in the supposed interest of ‘not wanting players to feel forced into X’, the devs consistently reduced options, doing exactly what they stated they wished to avoid.

I agree with the sugestion that dungeon tokens be made universal. This gives players the option of sampling and exploring any of the dungeons without the irritation of knowing that the tokens earned (and time invested) are wasted.

I disagree with making tokens universal. The armor sets should remain unique to the dungeon.

It would be incredibly silly for someone to buy an armor set that represented mastery of a dungeon that they had never set foot in.

At the very least, tokens should be converted 2:1 if you want to buy an armor set of a dungeon you can’t farm. It’s an inelegant solution, but there should be something to encourage people to do the dungeon of the armor set they desire.

And I also believe that if tokens were universal, people would farm the easiest dungeon until they had enough to get whatever they wanted. So end game armor set farming, essentially, becomes farm pre-patch CoF Magg path speed runs 50-100 times (or whatever the flavor of the month speed run is).

Why can’t so mutch people not just play dungeons to have fun.. according to the posts I’ve read people only have fun cause they get money tokkens. But what is the fun about money tokkens? I Have 5 dungeons completed and arah I have only 1 way left to do. My Arah runs weren’t mutch of a win ( maybe some silver and tokkens I get) still it was the most fun stuff to do. Even if you have maybe 4 hours to clear a way your haven’t done before. This is exactely the fun I want exploring getting the mechanics behind the boss and do it than. Dungeons are considered to be high end pve content. so If your repair costs are higher than what you get, you ain’t be that high end player yet. I did the tribune way in CoF we had massive lags due to some speedrunners still in the end we beat the boss. we got now reward not even completed the path since it’s bugged there and didn’t update after the bosskill… and still we had a lot of fun and yeah this is like the only run I made – since there are deadly traps in this dungeon:)

I really hope you will keep dungeons hard ( or even make em harder) since what you get out of dungeons is only skin realated not everyone should have a legendary or a dungeonsarmor within 3 days ( witch is possible atm ). Why you consider it as a grind.. there are ppl who play this game for fun and not to show off who will get the armor sooner or later with fun fullruns in arah or wherever. They don’t care that mutch about it. If you wanna show off and are afraid that you can’t anymore cause you can’t beat the dungeon without speedruns just buy somthing else to show off if you need it.

Guys, you are killing this game (i mean players, not Anet). Check this out: this game is not about farm or grind. You are making this game to be farm and grind, because you want the best gear right now right here! This is stupid. You are making yourselves chinese workers, farmers, grinders. You! Not Anet. You can get all this shiny rewards just playing a game casually. Noone has to get the best gear in a week, after hundreds of hours farming dungeons. This is plain stupidity. Tell me what are you gonna do when you will get all the bet gear? You will be bored with this game. So Anet made these rewards sokittenhard to get because they want you to play this game, enjoy it, and after some time of full of pleasure game you will finally get that stuff. Don;t you understand that? Farming karma? Don’t do that, just go to World versur World and play, do events and don’t look how much karma you have. After few days you will be surprised how much karma you get by just having fun. Is that so hard to understand, or are you 12-16 y.o. frustrated kids who want to have everything for free? I’m only glad because of how much these rewards cost and how hard it is to get legendary. I wish it would b harder, cuz there are this stupid grinders who already have it. I think Anet is doing great job with these nerfs. And if you want to earn some gold – go to WvW. 2-8 silver per event. You can earn 2 gold a day if you want to, and i think it is really much. Why? 2 months and 100 gold? one need two month to get commander. Do you really want to everybody on WvW have commander rank? It shouldn’t be so easy to get and i believe commander should only be guild rank accessible by kittenload of influence and 2-3 weeks of research time. Minimum.

Doing 100 runs to have a skin in 1 week or in 70 day is the same it’s too much! I like PvE dungeon in MMOs but actually I don’t play anymore because I really want the CoF armor (the only beautiful armor for me), but here and for a week we are punished for doing them with the buggy reward. If i want to pug anyway, i will be with people who exploit then i can’t play anymore waiting for something to come, thanks aNet.

And for people who say i must go with my guildies: they don’t want to do that dungeon again and again, they have their stuff to have too.

“if a person wants a certain stat combo on their helm” (Sorry formatting not working)

People really shouldn’t run dungeons for stats (there are better ways to get better stat armor) However, they should be running for the skins.

While with a universal token system would provide the option of running any dungeon. Players would just run 1 dungeon (the fastest one).

" go to WvW. 2-8 silver per event" WvW also has rewards tokens, if you haven’t noticed, and it’s rewarding (which you have clearly noticed).

Dungeons in their current state are not rewarding. Most people aren’t asking to get rich, but want to have the rewards match the effort/difficulty.

“Well, Arenanet considers sub30 minute runs to be fast, so 40 isn’t exactly slow. CM story isn’t any much harder than what it was before, maybe the tunnel area, but still easily doable.”

Going from being able to run it in less than 20 minutes to now taking over 40 is a huge downgrade for me. I must have missed it before, but was anyone complaining about the dungeons before this ‘update’?

I just think that it’s ridiculous, why can the players not decide how they want to play the game instead of Anet patching to make the decisions for us?

Too funny, must be a trend:

I am starting to think that a game without TANKS/HEALERS/DPS just cannot work in dungeon running. The Holy Trinity was invented for a reason

I see a trend very similar to that of SWTOR here.

Hundreds of people come along and state how unhappy they are about the state of the dungeons.
A few hardcore people come along and say “HEY! MAKE IT HARDER ANET!”

Company does nothing.

Hardcore people are happy.
Casuals leave the game slowly over time.

What happens in this scenario, is that the masses of people, who had legitimate complaints about their experience, over a period of time realize that they are kittenin’ talking to walls(since there is no response from the organization).
Overtime, the only people left to express opinions are the same people who said “HEY! MAKE IT HARDER ANET”.

I am starting to think that a game without TANKS/HEALERS/DPS just cannot work in dungeon running. The Holy Trinity was invented for a reason

well, the trinity is just a simplified mechanic for gameplay’s sake. without it, how would you fight a dragon? exactly, you wouldn’t. especially not with only 5/10/20/(whatever raid size).

and most people forget the trinity still exists. you still need someone to provide protection and someone to heal.

They broke the trinity, so that we no longer need TANKS/HEALERS/DPS. Instead, we have the much better system of CONTROL/SUPPORT/DAMAGE.

That is literally what that interview told me. I get the distinction, but I just found it incredibly funny.

Yikes. People are jumping out of their skins.

If you are upset read This guide on dungeons runs

“Monday’s patch will be the start of our efforts to correct the problem.”
Any ETA on information about this patch?

Their new builds are usually at midnight, so if it hasn’t happened yet, it might be when Mists of Pandaria releases.

That’d be kind of funny.

That’s be Midnight PST, by the way.

I, for one, am incredibly interested to see what ArenaNet is going to do. Every game has issues. ArenaNet seems to be the only company to actually care what the players think. Keep giving them ideas, mates. Remember Guild Wars 1.

Unlike <name any other pathetic, overrated gaming company here>, ArenaNet actually listens.

• Remember Guild Wars 1.*

I do. and it worked better right of of the box. some things you can’t fix afterwards, else there will always be a kittentorm. just look how the announcement of more tokens alone spawned several “what about the people who already farmed them”, “waaah unfair”, “thx arena catering to casuals and whiners!” asf.

I farmed a complete set with great effort, and I am fine with the token change.

If it means my friends will actually touch Guild Wars 2 again, awesome.

The current system of forcing people to run exactly the same dungeon over 200 times to get that dungeon’s full set is ridiculous. This is exactly the kind of grindy repetition (or, in fact, even worse) that made people move away from WoW, and the kind of thing Arena Net promised us GW2 would not be.

If my friends want me to go help them in Twilight Arbor, I don’t want to tell them “sorry but I don’t want any of the items from twilight arbor, so the tokens from there are useless to me – I have to go run Ascalonian Catacombs for the 250th time”. I want to be able to join them and still get tokens that I can use to buy the items I want.

The items are being sold by a vendor outside the dungeon, so it’s not like I’m farming the actual gear from the dungeon.

Possible solutions:

• Add an NPC that converts tokens from one dungeon to another as long as the player has done every path in both of those dungeons. I think this would be the most balanced solution, in terms of ease of use and fitting the lore.
• Add an NPC that converts tokens from one dungeon to another for a karma fee (ex., 50 karma to convert each token).
• Add an NPC that converts tokens from one dungeon to another for a gold fee (ex., 5 silver to convert each token).
• Add an NPC that converts tokens from one dungeon to another for a gem fee (ex., 1 gem to convert each token).
• Add all of the above (and let each player pick the NPC more convenient to them).
• Use a universal token system instead (one token type for all dungeons, possibly with some dungeons paths giving more tokens than others).

In addition to that, I would like to see this:

• Add a small chance (ex., 1-2%) that the last boss will drop one item from that dungeon’s armor or weapon set. This will strengthen the connection between the set and its respective dungeon, and as long as players also get the fixed reward of the tokens they won’t feel that they’re just gambling, as in other games where the random drops are the only way of getting gear.

- Al Zheimer

miya.5160:

They broke the trinity, so that we no longer need TANKS/HEALERS/DPS. Instead, we have the much better system of CONTROL/SUPPORT/DAMAGE.

Note that control, support and damage are types of action, they’re not combat roles.

Trinity-based games also have control, support and damage, as do lots of games of other genres (RTS, FPS, etc.).

The “MMORPG combat trinity” refers to specific combat roles not to types of actions performed during combat.

Just because both are groups of three words doesn’t mean one is a “replacement” for the other. There is no “replacement” for the holy trinity in GW2; the GW2 combat system is designed to make PvE combat as similar to PvP as possible (within the limits of the AI, of course), forcing every player to care about survival and about multiple aspects of teamwork.

- Al Zheimer

I feel like you could have saved yourself a lot of time if you just quoted the rest of my post as well.

You know… the part where I told you that I understood the distinction.

My issue is with you using the word “instead”. It’s not a replacement, nor are the two sets of words mutually exclusive. Holy trinity games also have “support, control and damage”. Those are generic concepts of team based combat.

Maybe you understand the distinction, but your wording suggested otherwise (and would tend to reinforce the idea that some people have that one thing is somehow a replacement for the other).

- Al Zheimer

So instead of reading my light-hearted post in its entirety for what it was as a whole, you chose to analyze my use of the word, “instead,” and make assumptions as to my understanding of the system instead.

Yes, because I’m evil and you’re a poor poor victim, forced to defend your honour in the internets. I’ve already explained why I wrote what I did. Is there a point to this conversation?

What amazing rant and Q.Q from everyone, my gosh!

Lvl 80 golds are just fine, casuals!!

Don’t call people victims. It’ll hurt your poll numbers.

Keep the dungeons hard.

People not knowing how to dodge yet is their own problem.

And holy crap people, stop acting like gear is relevant, or that anything “benefits people who already farmed gear”. I’ve done all of the exploration modes, with mostly blues.

Althou i too think that DR and difficulty of dungeons r realy messed up right now, i think that the whole idea behinde the way of doing thes dungons is more messed up.
Right now the most valid way of doing them is to do a kamikaze attack, since most of the mobs can either 1 or 2 hit u, so any form of passive defence is useless and u cant dodge forever.
As a matter of fact ther is even a task in CM expo that needs u to take some explosives and run in to a group of mobs that respawn infinitely under the gate and set them up, the moment i heard about that from high lvl player that was whit us on that run, i thought to myself, isnt it like telling us to take an explosive charge and then run in to the mob of ppl shouthing “FOR ALLAH!!!” after which u set them up?
If this is the intended way of doing dungeons, that Anet had in mind when makeing them then its definetly the most RIDICULOUS ideology of makeing something fun!
Ther is tons of better ways of makeing dungeons run’s fun and challenging whitout turning them in to the players graveyard or turning players themself in to a some kind of human sacrifice to make the completion of the run possible(especialy melee prof since they die as the first one), i.e. makeing task that require more coordination between players, this is a shor list of what i could think of in few minutes:

-some mobs needs to be attacked in a certain way to kill them other wise they wont die (of course they cant 1 hit players , they need to do some big dmg, but not one that player cant deal whit), if they r not killed fast enought the dmg they deal will only continue to slowly shave off player s HP.

-Add some jumpingpuzzle that needs players cooperation, like 1 player must get to some place and then turn timed swich to open route for player nr 2 and that player needs get to the other swich during that time and open route for player nr 3 and so on untill all of the players from the party get to the end of this puzzle.

-Make an falemthrower traps that block the way and give players a bundle that is a shield that block the flames from going throu them, turning some of the party members in to a mobile protection from the flames for the rest of the party untill they get throu the traps.

-at some point in the dungeon make some of the players in patry blind(only able to see UI, no map), and make others that can see lead them throu some traps(even jumping puzzle) by words in party chat only.

This is only a few of the ideas that i come up whit, but it would be to much to write so i limited myself. As u can see ther is a lot of possiblity to make dungeons fun whitout turning them in to a players physical, mental and financial slaughter.

I can vouch for gear being relevant.

The worse you are, the better gear you’ll want. I did the Explorables with Rare gear I bought off the Trading Post. After I finished farming, I can easily say that I am considerably tankier in Exotics than I was with Rare gear. I don’t -think- my damage changed that much, but I definitely feel like I can stand there for a while and take hits.

So, yeah, I believe that if people are having issues with the Explorables, they can get better gear by other means and come back. Exotics are not exclusive to dungeons, so that’s not a problem.

Afkjosh.3912:

What time was this supposed patch coming that would fix this?

Oh, 2 mins ago?

Fail.

:( I feel trolled yet again.

Wow nice job Ninja erasing my post ANet. How about you just say why there is no Patch at the quoted time of Midnight Monday PST…

And before you say this isn’t on topic I am questioning WHY THE PATCH THAT WAS PROMISED IN THIS POST AT THIS TIME WAS NOT MET.

My only concern is the sheer repetativeness of dungeon running.

I want:

x2 Swords
x1 Greatsword
x1 Staff

All from Twilight Arbor. The total token cost is: 1380.

A single run, yields 30 tokens with diminished returns if you complete all 3 to 20.

If I obtained the maximum tokens each time, I would need to undertake 46 runs.

Is that a lot? Probably, especially when there are only 3 routes. But, if you look at it from the perspective of doing all 3 paths once per day, taking 46 days isn’t a huge amount…

Still, it is agonisingly repetative.

I agree the rewards don’t seem to be worth the effort. I have nothing to add other than it’s early yet, and I do have faith.

New patch notes are live, a total of 180 tokens is available each day if you run all 3 paths.

I like the token update. You still work for it, but on paper it doesn’t seem like too much grind (180 tokens a day)

It encourages people to space it out and have fun with it. It’s a good change. It also promotes doing multiple paths.

so what is there to compensate us that farmed them already? ive done about 20 runs of 3 a day most says, all of this to get a sword and a gift of ascalon. now somebody can come along do the same as me and get 3 TIMES the reward which is more than the original reward, i mean ive put in the same amount of time shouldnt i get the same reward?

The Great Wikipedia.2396:

so what is there to compensate us that farmed them already? ive done about 20 runs of 3 a day most says, all of this to get a sword and a gift of ascalon. now somebody can come along do the same as me and get 3 TIMES the reward which is more than the original reward, i mean ive put in the same amount of time shouldnt i get the same reward?

Why do you need compensating? What sort of attitude is that? We’ve all done the runs before this change and personally I have no care as it was my choice.

So…

Before doing drastic changes like these, fix the boss bugs.

It wouldn’t be that bad if the bosses didn’t for example reset their health to full for no reason. The Gigantus Lupus whatever dog creature in Arah reseted 3 times for us in A SINGLE FIGHT. That means constantly fighting the boss, doing damage on him AND his dozens of minions. Then suddenly AOE faceroll. And also 9-10k damage from autoattack.

I’m also giving my vote regarding the dungeon rewards and their price, they’re WAY too overpriced right now. One might say that the rewards are for only the toughest and most hardcore players — but was that why the dungeons and their multiple path choices were implemented?

It’s not like we’re getting any far superior loot from the dungeons and their bugged out difficult bosses when compared to normal trash mob drops.

Dungeons were the thing I was really hyped up for, especially hearing the multiple paths and multiple bosses in one dungeon. Then I heard about the reward system, and that hype kind of crashed and burned.

Feels like I’m playing a WoW private server at times with all the boss bugs…

EDIT:
Also, KITTENZNZENS:

• Add an NPC that converts tokens from one dungeon to another as long as the player has done every path in both of those dungeons. I think this would be the most balanced solution, in terms of ease of use and fitting the lore.
• Add an NPC that converts tokens from one dungeon to another for a karma fee (ex., 50 karma to convert each token).
• Add an NPC that converts tokens from one dungeon to another for a gold fee (ex., 5 silver to convert each token).
• Add an NPC that converts tokens from one dungeon to another for a gem fee (ex., 1 gem to convert each token).
• Add all of the above (and let each player pick the NPC more convenient to them).
• Use a universal token system instead (one token type for all dungeons, possibly with some dungeons paths giving more tokens than others).

In addition to that, I would like to see this:

• Add a small chance (ex., 1-2%) that the last boss will drop one item from that dungeon’s armor or weapon set. This will strengthen the connection between the set and its respective dungeon, and as long as players also get the fixed reward of the tokens they won’t feel that they’re just gambling, as in other games where the random drops are the only way of getting gear.

- Al Zheimer

THIS.

Thanks for the info !

I doubt it, but are you going to find a way to make sure those speed runners get the short end of it ?

I suggested in another thread to make the CoF gear and all the dungeon gear with speed runs a bit different and create new tokens for the new dungeon so we can recognize real dungeon/pve players.

Listening to the players playing the game is important, didn’t many people said that dungeons are too hard to pass?