Guild Wars 2

SkylightMoon.1980:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Emanuel.9781:

There is not only no hope left for the gw2 dungeons, but also for a few people posting here in this very thread.
Especially for one specific person above me.

Ah, dnt and rt I see. The propogators of the zerk and stacking meta. Its really quite embarassing that you encourage this toxic type of gameplay when you could really be a voice to the devs for guild wars 2 on how they could improve these dungeons.

You’re funny. Toxic game play. what are you, the sheriff of fun? You determine what’s toxic and what’s fun now?

Because using the same stacking strategy to accomplish nearly every dungeon is fun? I get you wanna make money, I do to sometimes, but lets not pretend like there is anything challenging or fun about the way we do it.

Look sweetie I run Dungeons for fun with friends. What’s not fun:

*dying
*taking forever
*not being able to RP walk
*not making money
*kiting a boss for 10 minutes with bearbows
*unfashionable party members

See. Fun. Stacking and such fit into my idea of fun. I’m not in it for a huge stressful challenge. I’m not in a dungeon speed run guild. I play this game to have fun. Stop trying to ruin the majority of players fun because you want something that this game isn’t.

In gw2 you make your own challenges. Which is the beauty of it. You can kill bosses naked. You can do whatever you want. Stop trying to make this game that is ours into yours. God I hate you all.

Gw2 isnt inherently challenging which is why people consistently find ways to make it challenging. By soloing it, or doing it naked. Soloing some dungeons is actually quite challenging and impressive to see when done in a speedrun. There are some examples that obviously don’t count, where they bug the boss, like ive seen a player bug the spider queen in AC so she doesn’t move or attack and can just be dps’ed in the open.

The problem is that these players arn’t rewarded any differently. You take the easy way out and get rewards, they do something obviously much more difficult and get the exact same thing. Dungeons and fractals need a system that acknowledges that a player is soloing it so they can get better rewards.

It’s called getting it done quickly so you can run another path. That’s the incentive! More chances to receive a good roll on the loot table! More champ bags! More material bags!

Soloing and duoing? SELL THE SLOTS

Oh wait I’m sure you hate sellers too. Point is, rewards up the freaking wazzoo for doing something challenging.

Oh and ps. Good job taking my words, paraphrasing them, yo try and make yourself look good. GG.

Ye I get your mentality, you wanna get it done fast so you can make more gold and do another dungeon to make more gold so you can buy some pretty weapons that you can use to go back and speedrun the dungeon. This mentality makes no sense. At this point, there is nothing enjoyable about the content. Its the unique thing about guild wars 2.

This isnt the game you’re looking for, move along.

It’s about the gameplay. It’s about the rewards you get from gameplay. If it wasn’t I’d just play tetris. It’s fashion wars 2, baby, and I’m freaking winning it.

“Its about the gameplay.” What gameplay? All you are doing is stacking a boss in the corner, this is not gameplay, this is a joke. I won’t give up on this game even though its plagued by a seemingly brainwashed community of speedrunners who don’t want anything to change ever. This game has the best combat system out of any MMO ive played and Anet can do better.

If you are under the false impression that I am a brainwashed speed runner I challenge you to ask anyone I run with if that is what I am, or if I’m just that adorable Asura playing the flute at the way point while they /dance for 20 minutes. Also I challenge you to RP and RP walk through dungeons. Cause the game play is social. It’s not, “RARRRRGGHHH no skill no stack no skip do it my way or I’ll grief you to the high heavens!”

Its: “Hey colesy, want to join me while I teach a new player the ropes in AC? We can giggle and make jokes in TS.”

Its: “Hey sexy players let’s take level 2’s into fractals and complete it and take screens because it’s fun.”

Its: “let’s make some gold so I can change my characters armor once a week like I want to.”

Its: “Hey let’s create a community where we learn and play together, without judging other people for how they like to play.”

Because that’s what I’ve found. That’s what makes this game great. Again. The gameplay is up to you. Make your own Darn fun. Stop trying to ruin others.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

deSade.9437:

SkylightMoon.1980:

The propogators of the zerk and stacking meta. Its really quite embarassing that you encourage this toxic type of gameplay

Toxic type of gameplay? Interesting.

Ps. Desade I love you.

I love you too.

haviz.1340:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Ah, dnt and rt I see. The propogators of the zerk and stacking meta. Its really quite embarassing that you encourage this toxic type of gameplay when you could really be a voice to the devs for guild wars 2 on how they could improve these dungeons.

I’m deeply offended by your unsubstantiated insinuations. In fact, I hate stacking more than you do.

That fgs stack :OOOOOOOOOOOO

If you are under the false impression that I am a brainwashed speed runner I challenge you to ask anyone I run with if that is what I am, or if I’m just that adorable Asura playing the flute at the way point while they /dance for 20 minutes. Also I challenge you to RP and RP walk through dungeons. Cause the game play is social. It’s not, “RARRRRGGHHH no skill no stack no skip do it my way or I’ll grief you to the high heavens!”

Its: “Hey colesy, want to join me while I teach a new player the ropes in AC? We can giggle and make jokes in TS.”

Its: “Hey sexy players let’s take level 2’s into fractals and complete it and take screens because it’s fun.”

Its: “let’s make some gold so I can change my characters armor once a week like I want to.”

Its: “Hey let’s create a community where we learn and play together, without judging other people for how they like to play.”

Because that’s what I’ve found. That’s what makes this game great. Again. The gameplay is up to you. Make your own Darn fun. Stop trying to ruin others.

+1000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zcz_Yunc2k

That fgs stack :OOOOOOOOOOOO

What you don’t understand is that they’re doing it to remain competitive in attempting a world record – not because they enjoy fgs’ing things.

SkylightMoon.1980:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zcz_Yunc2k

That fgs stack :OOOOOOOOOOOO

How’s that relevant? You generalise two guilds and I’m expressing my own opinion. Can you see the difference?

Moreover, I’m most likely not alone in the statement that I wish some things were gutted.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Its: “Hey colesy, want to join me while I teach a new player the ropes in AC? We can giggle and make jokes in TS.”

Its: “Hey sexy players let’s take level 2’s into fractals and complete it and take screens because it’s fun.”

Its: “let’s make some gold so I can change my characters armor once a week like I want to.”

Its: “Hey let’s create a community where we learn and play together, without judging other people for how they like to play.”

Because that’s what I’ve found. That’s what makes this game great. Again. The gameplay is up to you. Make your own Darn fun. Stop trying to ruin others.

Today I present to you the coveted and highly prestigious “Internet Plue One” Award.

IndigoSundown.5419:

There is plenty of build diversity available in PvE. More builds are viable in this game’s dungeons than in most other MMO’s.

I can believe that. Whatever floats the boat.

Different builds fit different people/playstyles.

SkylightMoon.1980:

I dont want long afk fights either. I want fights that are difficult regardless of their duration. That challenge me to time all of my skills in order to “kill” the boss. Not kill the boss as fast as possible because its already an easy boss. I want just killing the boss to be difficult.

Can you name one game where killing a boss in a dungeon is difficult after you’ve done the boss fight enough times that you could complete the fight while brain dead? I’m not talking going into a dungeon with an under-geared party, I’m talking actually doing the dungeon, not the behind-the-scenes math.

ANet has added some challenge to the dungeons. See TA AP. When that came out there were hordes of complaints it was too hard. Now, those who bother doing it know the mechanics. Not so hard, now. Heck, when the game launched the dungeons were hard. Why? Because no one knew what to expect.

What you want is new paths, with new bosses. However, that challenge only lasts so long — about as long as the average PuG takes to memorize the new fights. This is why — in any MMO_, people who want challenge in dungeons need new dungeons being added regularly.

In GW2, what the dungeon community has done is to challenge itself by: going for speed records; soloing; gearless fights; or doing things like Lilith described. They’ve embraced the fact that GW2 build diversity in GW2 is not just tied to gear. They’ve experimented. They’ve embraced the idea that the support or control roles are not gear or profession bound and use these roles to the fullest that the game design allows.

You’re complaining because PuG’s who know fights by heart only want to do them the fastest way. Blame that on the real cause, lack of new dungeons, if you have to blame anything.

I’m not even sure what the discussion is about anymore. Wasn’t this topic originally about OP wanting trinity back into the game?

Who cares for the original topic anyway? But at least I’m delighted how Skylight and some others set out to prove my claim at the beginning of this thread right.

Almost! Got 13/30

Lucas.9157:

Almost! Got 13/30

Also, they should remove ping gear. I thought they’ve gone so far to avoid being just another WoW clone, but obviously they haven’t gone far enough.

Just for you.

Lucas.9157:

Almost! Got 13/30

Do you even expect some of these to be said in a thread?

“Pugs are faster”

Yolo.

Dungeons are hard. There is no hope.

Zerkers always die, buff healers.

Does any1 have a stick and dead horse lying around for the OP?

I was wondering how long it would take for him to start defining fun for other people.

This thread is the best thread

We sure are privileged to be able to read such great threads like this one

I congratulate every participants of this thread on all accounts. You all have done an excellent job. I have been wholeheartedly entertained and our queen has spoken:

This isnt the game you’re looking for, move along.

It’s about the gameplay. It’s about the rewards you get from gameplay. If it wasn’t I’d just play tetris. It’s fashion wars 2, baby, and I’m freaking winning it.

I hope the OP will win the bingo prize. Good job!

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Lucas.9157:

Almost! Got 13/30

Do you even expect some of these to be said in a thread?

“Pugs are faster”

The “pugs are faster” line usually goes along the lines of “lol elitist zerks sit around waiting for their perfect party I can join a pug and be done in half the time it takes for them to even form the party”.

Just thought I’d post this from Anet

Roy Cronacher

One of the main goals for balance in Guild Wars 2 is to support a wide variety of builds that cater to different play styles. The current implementation of critical damage works against this. Put simply, if critical damage-stacked builds are more effective than other approaches, the build diversity decreases. As we work to increase support and teamwork between players throughout the game, we examined how we could change critical damage to retain it as a fun and viable approach to build-making while also allowing other builds to shine.

source:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/learn-about-critical-damage-changes/

The above did not appear to impact dungeon meta at all.
I would love to see the condition necro have a good reputation in dungeons… or any condition build for that matter.

Then ask for a buff to conditions and not a zerk nerf :/

Plus conditions mean Rampager to me, not Dire or Rabid.

If they’d up condition code, it should be both ways – boost base condi calculation in PvE such that it’s not just us that benefits, but mobs as well.

Advent Leader.1083:

If they’d up condition code, it should be both ways – boost base condi calculation in PvE such that it’s not just us that benefits, but mobs as well.

Removing (or raising) the condi cap would not help mobs, since they hardly ever reach the cap on players anyway.

We simply need a) rampager gear with condition damage as main stat and b) condition duration and condition damage on another. Then we need condition traits (the guardian is the only profession who has some, but yet it’s the worst profession to use conditions – it has only burn), a condition stack cap increase and equal access to important conditions on any profession. Right now, a condition damage player must do more than 200% of the dps of a berserker player, simply to become not a leech. If they do that, though, wvw will get into condition builds even more, while pve carries at most 0-1, rest being berserker.

maxinion.8396:

Advent Leader.1083:

If they’d up condition code, it should be both ways – boost base condi calculation in PvE such that it’s not just us that benefits, but mobs as well.

Removing (or raising) the condi cap would not help mobs, since they hardly ever reach the cap on players anyway.

Not the condi cap. The condi cap can stay – I mean the damage calculation and scaling of conditions themselves, not the caps.

chaosgrimm.5837:

Just thought I’d post this from Anet

Roy Cronacher

One of the main goals for balance in Guild Wars 2 is to support a wide variety of builds that cater to different play styles. The current implementation of critical damage works against this. Put simply, if critical damage-stacked builds are more effective than other approaches, the build diversity decreases. As we work to increase support and teamwork between players throughout the game, we examined how we could change critical damage to retain it as a fun and viable approach to build-making while also allowing other builds to shine.

source:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/learn-about-critical-damage-changes/

The above did not appear to impact dungeon meta at all.
I would love to see the condition necro have a good reputation in dungeons… or any condition build for that matter.

I hope someone has told them they’re doing it wrong. It’s mob AI and mechanics they should be working on. But even if they succeed, people aren’t going to want to grind another set of Ascended gear to replace their zerker gear. Anet screwed up big time on that.

Hmm, one of my message got removed due to sharing some exploit.
Either mods dont get my sarcastic post about reflects or reading is now officialy an exploit. Where can i ask for an answer what got deleted?

I think asking a robot for answers isn’t going to get you anywhere. :(

Oh well, lets assume reading is now an exploit.

Dalanor.5387:

Hmm, one of my message got removed due to sharing some exploit.
Either mods dont get my sarcastic post about reflects or reading is now officialy an exploit. Where can i ask for an answer what got deleted?

Same for me. No idea what post it was. Pretty sure the only post i made in this thread is still here. xD

Spoj The Second.7680:

Dalanor.5387:

Hmm, one of my message got removed due to sharing some exploit.
Either mods dont get my sarcastic post about reflects or reading is now officialy an exploit. Where can i ask for an answer what got deleted?

Same for me. No idea what post it was. Pretty sure the only post i made in this thread is still here. xD

Same here.

I think it was an FGS post. Cause I didn’t talk about reflects.

Potato.

chaosgrimm.5837:

Just thought I’d post this from Anet

Roy Cronacher

One of the main goals for balance in Guild Wars 2 is to support a wide variety of builds that cater to different play styles. The current implementation of critical damage works against this. Put simply, if critical damage-stacked builds are more effective than other approaches, the build diversity decreases. As we work to increase support and teamwork between players throughout the game, we examined how we could change critical damage to retain it as a fun and viable approach to build-making while also allowing other builds to shine.

source:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/learn-about-critical-damage-changes/

The above did not appear to impact dungeon meta at all.

Nor did anyone who understands why the dungeon meta came to be in the first place expect that it would.

My “translation” for the statement is:

‘We know that the Ferocity change will have little to no impact on the claims that PvE lacks build diversity, but we want to look like we’re doing something about peoples’ complaints, Also, we think we were a little too generous with Critical Damage percentage increases, particularly with Ascended, so we’re cutting it back. Finally, maybe a few less people will complain about Backstab in WvW if the damage ceiling on critical burst skills goes down some.’

deSade.9437:

Potato.

Wow exploit stop!

Miku Lawrence.6329:

deSade.9437:

Potato.

Wow exploit stop!

I’m sowwy.

Enaretos.8079:

Then ask for a buff to conditions and not a zerk nerf :/

Plus conditions mean Rampager to me, not Dire or Rabid.

nah man, power creep.
Zerker needed nerfed and might need nerfed just slightly more.
I dont think zerker is bad for the game by itself, and it should definitely offer dps advantages over other direct dmg gear.

The nerf target should be the synergy of the meta builds (reflection, timewarp, might, vunlnerability) and/or perhaps boss survival mechanics. Lupicus shouldnt die in less than a minute. You might as well allow players to enable ‘god mode’ in pve.

Of course anet has been awful in the past about OP mechanics. Anyone remember the pre nerfed permaform? How long did they leave that around? I remember them stating that they wanted players to have the option…. lawl.
(for those who werent around, there was a mechanic in the game that allowed players to become indefinitely immune to pretty much all incoming damage, while being able to deal damage at the same time.)

The only real ‘buff’ IMO that conditions need is to synergy / mechanics. There are too many things that you cant do with conditions that you can do with direct damage builds.

suggested nerfs:

• Might: base bonuses increased, but can no longer be stacked in intensity.
• Vulnerability: Make this substantially less accessible on direct damage builds so that a debuffer role will be desired.
• Reflects: Bosses should no longer take damage from reflected attacks OR damage from these attacks should be scaled back.

suggested buffs:

• some sort of implementation that allows condition specs not to override each other’s dps
• a way to deal decent structure damage / lowering hp of structures in dungeons.

You are kidding, right?

chaosgrimm.5837

The only real ‘buff’ IMO that conditions need is to synergy / mechanics. There are too many things that you cant do with conditions that you can do with direct damage builds.

suggested nerfs:

• Might: base bonuses increased, but can no longer be stacked in intensity.
• Vulnerability: Make this substantially less accessible on direct damage builds so that a debuffer role will be desired.
• Reflects: Bosses should no longer take damage from reflected attacks OR damage from these attacks should be scaled back.

suggested buffs:

• some sort of implementation that allows condition specs not to override each other’s dps
• a way to deal decent structure damage / lowering hp of structures in dungeons.

So basically you’re complaining that condition damage and direct damage are different… SUCH WOW !

This is pretty much why I talked about rampagers : power and precision and condition damage. You can achieve more with that than with subpar rabids/dire/non-damage dealing conditank builds…

You want people to need specific builds ? A debuffer ? You’re asking for the “play how you want” motto to be erased… I’m amazed, because that would force people to sit for an hour waiting for a debuffer to be able to do a smooth run ? A debuffer who’d contribute to nothing apart from “debuffing” ? Stop copy-pasting mechanics from other games and understand how this one works please :/

You’re also asking for a reflect nerf ? Do you even understand how a reflect works ?

As far as structures go, it’s fine IMO. You can solo all timed events requiring structures to be destroyed so I can’t possibly understand how a 5-man group would need them to have reduced health.

Enaretos.8079:

So basically you’re complaining that condition damage and direct damage are different… SUCH WOW !

just let that meme die already. its almost as bad as an ‘arrow to the knee’ ref.
My argument is that when making a decision between direct dmg and condition damage, there should be pros and cons to each. Direct dmg offers too much over condition damage to be considered for Dungeon content. Why should any player currently take condition damage over direct dmg in a dungeon?

Enaretos.8079:

This is pretty much why I talked about rampagers : power and precision and condition damage. You can achieve more with that than with subpar rabids/dire/non-damage dealing conditank builds…

why shouldnt condition builds be viable on their own? Your solution for build diversity is to buff a direct dmg set that is supplemented w/ conditions, to supplement it with more conditions…. at the end of the day. you dont need to make OP armor, you just need to give conditions a place in dungeons.

Enaretos.8079:

You want people to need specific builds ? A debuffer ? You’re asking for the “play how you want” motto to be erased… I’m amazed, because that would force people to sit for an hour waiting for a debuffer to be able to do a smooth run ? A debuffer who’d contribute to nothing apart from “debuffing” ? Stop copy-pasting mechanics from other games and understand how this one works please :/

This is just wrong. My post never said ‘need’. Are you saying you couldn’t complete a dungeon run on a war heavy team w/o vulnerability? Look at it at the other side of the spectrum. What would you do if you were trying to end a “play how you want” motto? Make one build type so good that ppl will be kicked from pugs if they dont have it? that kinda sounds like zerker to me. A system where a debuffer is desired, gives ppl the ability to make a viable contribution as a debuffer. That isnt to say that that the debuffer is required. If you truely want a “play how you want” game 5 debuff focused builds or condition focused builds should be able to do a dungeon clear just as efficiently as a zerker group comp.

Enaretos.8079:

You’re also asking for a reflect nerf ? Do you even understand how a reflect works ?

yes and yes.

Enaretos.8079:

As far as structures go, it’s fine IMO. You can solo all timed events requiring structures to be destroyed so I can’t possibly understand how a 5-man group would need them to have reduced health.

Structures are just one more thing that gives direct damage builds an advantage over condition based builds. There arent really any disadvantages of running direct dmg in PvE, there are several for conditions, structures are just one of them.

I’ll add my “so much yes” to nerfing reflects and FGS.

Reasons?

chaosgrimm.5837:

just let that meme die already. its almost as bad as an ‘arrow to the knee’ ref.
My argument is that when making a decision between direct dmg and condition damage, there should be pros and cons to each. Direct dmg offers too much over condition damage to be considered for Dungeon content. Why should any player currently take condition damage over direct dmg in a dungeon?

Mmh when I play my zerker meta build and have to switch to a wep for utility purposes (example : LB on war), I lose a lot of damage because the direct damage is way inferior on these weapon skills, for they inflict conditions. Here is your con, happy ?

Why would you take condition damage over direct damage ? No reason atm, but if I’m not mistaken, rampager dps isn’t too far from a good ol’ zerker. Which means a slight buff to condi, and putting power as major stat and precision as minor one would make it better. Nerfing zerker achieves nothing. Asking for a might buff achives nothing.

And I like my memes btw

chaosgrimm.5837:

why shouldnt condition builds be viable on their own? Your solution for build diversity is to buff a direct dmg set that is supplemented w/ conditions, to supplement it with more conditions…. at the end of the day. you dont need to make OP armor, you just need to give conditions a place in dungeons.

Think for a minute. I’ve been talking about rampagers for a reason. All the other condition damage sets bear defensive stats. These shouldn" get near a full zerker build at all ! All condition builds are viabl btw, you can do your dungeon just fin, just don’t expect to be fast. Rampager could get the buffs I talked about but not the other sets.

Your ideas remind me of the super OP Scarlet’s Knights QQ thread : “but, why timed event, OMG so hardz, can’t killz” → you have to KILL, so dont expect to do it by playing a defensive set with non damaging traits. Or you’ll take a long time. But that’s ok, really ^^

chaosgrimm.5837:

This is just wrong. My post never said ‘need’. Are you saying you couldn’t complete a dungeon run on a war heavy team w/o vulnerability? Look at it at the other side of the spectrum. What would you do if you were trying to end a “play how you want” motto? Make one build type so good that ppl will be kicked from pugs if they dont have it? that kinda sounds like zerker to me. A system where a debuffer is desired, gives ppl the ability to make a viable contribution as a debuffer. That isnt to say that that the debuffer is required.

Think for a minute v2.0. Why are people asking for zerker builds so often when there are maybe less than 500 players labeled as elitists and residing in hardcore guilds ? Sheeps, sheeps everywhere. Say something and they’ll trust you :p Which means if such a role is created and becomes better to use for a given dungeon, they’ll see that it’s played and won’t try to understand why. They’ll ask for it in LFG as in : “PX, debuffer wanted”. Much diversity.

You know why zerker is wanted I guess, so it’s not about ending playing how you want. You may want to take 2 hours in AC and as such you can play in full clerics just fine. Or full dire since you like condi damage.

chaosgrimm.5837:

yes and yes.

Great, then since we already got our crit damage nerf we can just ask for a boss nerf now ?

chaosgrimm.5837:

Structures are just one more thing that gives direct damage builds an advantage over condition based builds. There arent really any disadvantages of running direct dmg in PvE, there are several for conditions, structures are just one of them.

Please tell me what is a condition based build ? I’m assuming full dire + defensive traits, or rabids… Try rampagers bro !

yayuuu.9420:

Currently Might given by Empower lasts 10 seconds while “blasted” might lasts 20 seconds. It should be at least reversed, so the Empower can give might for 20 seconds while blasted might lasts only 10 seconds. Increasing radius of blasted boons would on the other hand make some use of the ranged classes.

Most of the stuff you write is questionable at the least. But how on earth can even you think might gained by the press of a single button should be superior to might that requires some setup and puts several skills on cooldown? An increased radius is nowhere near a fair trade-off.
And why should we buff the support provided by a class that’s already most dominant in the ‘support role’ while simultaneously nerfing the support other classes can give? Think about all the support staff eles who will become even less popular with your suggested change. This change would limit diversity even more.

chaosgrimm.5837:

Enaretos.8079:

You want people to need specific builds ? A debuffer ? You’re asking for the “play how you want” motto to be erased… I’m amazed, because that would force people to sit for an hour waiting for a debuffer to be able to do a smooth run ? A debuffer who’d contribute to nothing apart from “debuffing” ? Stop copy-pasting mechanics from other games and understand how this one works please :/

This is just wrong. My post never said ‘need’. Are you saying you couldn’t complete a dungeon run on a war heavy team w/o vulnerability? Look at it at the other side of the spectrum. What would you do if you were trying to end a “play how you want” motto? Make one build type so good that ppl will be kicked from pugs if they dont have it? that kinda sounds like zerker to me. A system where a debuffer is desired, gives ppl the ability to make a viable contribution as a debuffer. That isnt to say that that the debuffer is required. If you truely want a “play how you want” game 5 debuff focused builds or condition focused builds should be able to do a dungeon clear just as efficiently as a zerker group comp.

Berserker isn’t a build. It’s a gear set. There isn’t gear variety in speed clears because those players DO NOT NEED the survivability of Knights, Clerics, w/e else.

There is plenty of build variety though. Players swap in and out certain traits for certain encounters pretty often. If you feel like running a different team comp, you shuffle traits around to achieve the same results. The best build variety is seen in team comps. It’s like a 5 man puzzle of traits and utilities. THAT’S what makes this game so fun.

That is what people who don’t understand are trying to destroy. Most of these posts boil down to “I want to play a healer but I also want to be speed clear fast.” Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. In GW1, it did. It also didn’t promote much build variety. LFG Monk for 40 minutes. “Monk, what are you running?” Better be WoR, or HB, or w/e the current meta was"

You can contribute just fine as a ‘debuffer’ by removing weakness, confusion ,etc… Of course you can do this while you contribute damage as well. What does that mean? It means you need to be paying attention to attacks to dodge, as well as your Party UI to manage the ‘debuffs’… That takes playing at a higher skill level than playing a back-line ‘debuff remover’ or ‘healer’. There is no room in this game for such a passive and useless role.

Condis. and CC also have plenty of uses in both dungeons and fractals if you choose to employ them. None of them require you to gear for them though. If you want to pew pew pew and LB knockback everytime it is off CD, and rack up 20 stacks of Defiance on a mob, then you will enjoy none of those elements. If you want to coordinate CC, then you will actually find that it’s a pretty nice mechanic.

This game is very play how I want. I can play on my Ele, my Guard, my Warrior, my Thief, etc… Each class has some very cool things it can do. Each weapon set has some specific uses that a clever player can learn or even discover new ones.

nerf yayuuu

“I play how I want! Stop telling me how to play!”

“So when I join other groups they go ‘We don’t want to play like you, so play like us or go away’.”

“People don’t want to play like I do and don’t want to play with me because of it! They are such kittens!”

This thread in a nutshell.

Enaretos.8079:

Mmh when I play my zerker meta build and have to switch to a wep for utility purposes (example : LB on war), I lose a lot of damage because the direct damage is way inferior on these weapon skills, for they inflict conditions. Here is your con, happy ?

no. reason… well as you put it:

Enaretos.8079:

Why would you take condition damage over direct damage ? No reason atm…

Enaretos.8079:

but if I’m not mistaken, rampager dps isn’t too far from a good ol’ zerker. Which means a slight buff to condi, and putting power as major stat and precision as minor one would make it better. Nerfing zerker achieves nothing. Asking for a might buff achives nothing.

In the end you are still trying to fix the issue of “direct dmg supremacy” with more direct damage.

Im not for any major nerf to a zerker loadout at all. The problem is the synergy is too good. Was in my first post in this thread.

I wasnt asking for a might buff, i was asking for a might nerf.

Enaretos.8079:

Think for a minute. I’ve been talking about rampagers for a reason. All the other condition damage sets bear defensive stats. These shouldn" get near a full zerker build at all ! All condition builds are viabl btw, you can do your dungeon just fin, just don’t expect to be fast. Rampager could get the buffs I talked about but not the other sets.

The point about defensive stats is valid, on the other hand… its pve. You could also point out that zerkers arent equal. thief gets medium armor, rangers get range, etc. If the amount of hits that you’re able to take should always be countered by lower dps, then thieves should be king instead of wars. I wouldnt be opposed to a new condition armor if it is that big of an issue.

Enaretos.8079:

Think for a minute v2.0. Why are people asking for zerker builds so often when there are maybe less than 500 players labeled as elitists and residing in hardcore guilds ? Sheeps, sheeps everywhere. Say something and they’ll trust you :p Which means if such a role is created and becomes better to use for a given dungeon, they’ll see that it’s played and won’t try to understand why. They’ll ask for it in LFG as in : “PX, debuffer wanted”. Much diversity.

This point isnt even valid… If conditions were better, elitists wouldnt have a problem with them, and any sheep would follow. What would be so wrong if one day you could choose to add a conditionmancer or a zerker warrior to your group and choosing either wouldnt hurt gold per hour?

Enaretos.8079:

You know why zerker is wanted I guess, so it’s not about ending playing how you want. You may want to take 2 hours in AC and as such you can play in full clerics just fine. Or full dire since you like condi damage.

Great, then since we already got our crit damage nerf we can just ask for a boss nerf now ?

werent you just complaining about a needing a debuffer for a “smooth run”? I run zerker all the time. its not exactly difficult. there is no reason why conditions and direct damage cant both deliver similar efficiency in pve.

Saint.5647:

Berserker isn’t a build. It’s a gear set. There isn’t gear variety in speed clears because those players DO NOT NEED the survivability of Knights, Clerics, w/e else.

I referred “zerker” as a “build type”. zerker is a type / category of build. This context is used all the time… “Zerkers Only” does not mean spec your necromancer for conditions, but wear a berserker set…

Saint.5647:

There is plenty of build variety though. Players swap in and out certain traits for certain encounters pretty often. If you feel like running a different team comp, you shuffle traits around to achieve the same results. The best build variety is seen in team comps. It’s like a 5 man puzzle of traits and utilities. THAT’S what makes this game so fun.

No. It’s like different brands of bottled water… slightly different tastes, but it’s still bottled water.

What would be so wrong about a condition build being able to offer as much as a zerker?

Saint.5647:

That is what people who don’t understand are trying to destroy. Most of these posts boil down to “I want to play a healer but I also want to be speed clear fast.” Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. In GW1, it did. It also didn’t promote much build variety. LFG Monk for 40 minutes. “Monk, what are you running?” Better be WoR, or HB, or w/e the current meta was"

GW1 was great with build diversity. Been a long time since ive played, but just a quick search back at PvX
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Great_working_general_builds
several builds for each profession considered to be great by the community for general PvE

Saint.5647:

You can contribute just fine as a ‘debuffer’ by removing weakness, confusion ,etc…

swing and a miss xD.

Saint.5647:

Of course you can do this while you contribute damage as well. What does that mean? It means you need to be paying attention to attacks to dodge, as well as your Party UI to manage the ‘debuffs’… That takes playing at a higher skill level than playing a back-line ‘debuff remover’ or ‘healer’. There is no room in this game for such a passive and useless role.

I run zerker on pretty much all dungeon runs anymore, it isnt exactly hard, its just boring. All zerker all the time… Is there a problem with adding more roles to this “role playing game”? I guess I just wasnt aware that the R in RPG, referred to a single role.

Saint.5647:

Condis. and CC also have plenty of uses in both dungeons and fractals if you choose to employ them. None of them require you to gear for them though.

Fractals arent as bad as regular dungeons on this. The problem is if you gear for anything other than a zerker role, you’re usually worse off.

Saint.5647:

This game is very play how I want. I can play on my Ele, my Guard, my Warrior, my Thief, etc… Each class has some very cool things it can do. Each weapon set has some specific uses that a clever player can learn or even discover new ones.

Ah, you forgot to add: “so long as it falls under ‘zerker’”.