Guild Wars 2

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Broadicea.8294:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

PLEASE DON’T CONTROL FOR VARIABLES, IT MAKES IT HARDER FOR ME TO SKEW THE RESULTS

Now you guys see why I don’t bother making videos for you guys. You’re basically incapable of actually testing anything in any sort of remotely structured manner.

Might as well just put the ranger in green cleric’s gear. Or hell, have the ranger die at the beginning of the fight and go “well that’s just cause rangers die a lot” and pretend it was an objective test.

I didn’t realize that the actual clear times of the dungeon were what mattered when you wanted to get rewards faster. I also didn’t know that was the point of speedclearing either. Now I’m wondering if you were a test tube baby birthed in a sterile and perfect environment by fanatical science parents, and my head is spinning at rate that you couldn’t even calculate.

Yeah I was ready to take it seriously for a bit, not that I entertained even the slightest nanoparticle of thought that any of his BS is actually correct, but seeing the last couple posts just made me realize that I don’t give a kitten and I’m not gonna waste my time. Any evidence we offer of reality (anything an engy/ranger group can do, warriors can do faster) will be brushed aside by not counting the total dungeon time as the ultimate, and only sane, metric.

-well you used time warp, warriors are by nature more DPS in that, results invalid
-well you shouldn’t measure the kill time for that one group by the door since warriors can do it faster, results invalid
-you can’t measure the run time where warriors can use WW and Rush, results invalid
-your warriors had 6/6 ascended trinkets and rangers had only 5/6, results invalid

and on and on and on and godkitten some people should not be allowed to internet

Broadicea.8294:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Broadicea.8294:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

PLEASE DON’T CONTROL FOR VARIABLES, IT MAKES IT HARDER FOR ME TO SKEW THE RESULTS

Now you guys see why I don’t bother making videos for you guys. You’re basically incapable of actually testing anything in any sort of remotely structured manner.

Might as well just put the ranger in green cleric’s gear. Or hell, have the ranger die at the beginning of the fight and go “well that’s just cause rangers die a lot” and pretend it was an objective test.

I didn’t realize that the actual clear times of the dungeon were what mattered when you wanted to get rewards faster. I also didn’t know that was the point of speedclearing either. Now I’m wondering if you were a test tube baby birthed in a sterile and perfect environment by fanatical science parents, and my head is spinning at rate that you couldn’t even calculate.

Yeah I was ready to take it seriously for a bit, not that I entertained even the slightest nanoparticle of thought that any of his BS is actually correct, but seeing the last couple posts just made me realize that I don’t give a kitten and I’m not gonna waste my time. Any evidence we offer of reality (anything an engy/ranger group can do, warriors can do faster) will be brushed aside by not counting the total dungeon time as the ultimate, and only sane, metric.

-well you used time warp, warriors are by nature more DPS in that, results invalid
-well you shouldn’t measure the kill time for that one group by the door since warriors can do it faster, results invalid
-you can’t measure the run time where warriors can use WW and Rush, results invalid
-your warriors had 6/6 ascended trinkets and rangers had only 5/6, results invalid

and on and on and on and godkitten some people should not be allowed to internet

Perhaps you’d like to explain to me how warriors are categorically better than other classes at waiting for dialogue and skipping through cutscenes, then.

Also, I said not to use Time Warp to help the WARRIOR, not the ranger. Rangers deal virtually all off their DPS through auto-attacks, while warriors basically rely on HB and Whirlwind Attack to maintain good DPS. That means rangers get a flat 50% DPS boost from quickness, while warriors only get a DPS boost to the portion of their damage that comes from their auto-attack.

More importantly, though, it is important not to use Time Warp in CoF because it makes the mobs drop so rapidly in any group composition that it is impossible to accurately measure the actual kill time on the basis of DPS otherwise. The longer the fight, the more individual mistakes are mitigated. If a fight only takes ten seconds and one guy runs in prematurely and the others are two seconds behind him, the fight takes 20% longer.

Also, lol @ not wanting to control for equipment.

It’s a shame you don’t have any dungeon speedclear videos proving your point, they would really bolster your argument oh well. toodles

*flies away on a jetpack

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

warriors basically rely on HB and Whirlwind Attack to maintain good DPS.

you still haven’t figured out warriors don’t use GS throughout a fight have you?

Wukunlin.8461:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

warriors basically rely on HB and Whirlwind Attack to maintain good DPS.

you still haven’t figured out LOD warriors don’t use GS throughout a fight have you?

Fixed that for you

I didn’t know we are THAT special

Wukunlin.8461:

I didn’t know we are THAT special

You aren’t.

Wukunlin.8461:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

warriors basically rely on HB and Whirlwind Attack to maintain good DPS.

you still haven’t figured out warriors don’t use GS throughout a fight have you?

So warriors don’t use GS at all? No pushing Slave Driver to wall so you can Whirlwind him, etc.? Every single time I’ve used the word “DPS” in the context of a class other than the warrior, people have been posting screencaps of damage numbers from a weapon they don’t use?

If that’s the case, a whole lot of warriors like to complain at newbie mesmers for absolutely no reason.

Incidentally, switching to GS for HB only adds about 2% damage to the warrior’s damage output, versus just attacking with axe. I just realized this when I happened to crunch the numbers. You are probably better off packing an alternate offhand for your axe instead, unless it’s a boss you can Whirlwind on.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Wukunlin.8461:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

warriors basically rely on HB and Whirlwind Attack to maintain good DPS.

you still haven’t figured out warriors don’t use GS throughout a fight have you?

So warriors don’t use GS at all? No pushing Slave Driver to wall so you can Whirlwind him, etc.? Every single time I’ve used the word “DPS” in the context of a class other than the warrior, people have been posting screencaps of damage numbers from a weapon they don’t use?

If that’s the case, a whole lot of warriors like to complain at newbie mesmers for absolutely no reason.

Incidentally, switching to GS for HB only adds about 2% damage to the warrior’s damage output, versus just attacking with axe. I just realized this when I happened to crunch the numbers. You are probably better off packing an alternate offhand for your axe instead, unless it’s a boss you can Whirlwind on.

LOD does not do CoF. We have much more profitable farms. If we were to test your theory that a non WWGMX party is optimal it most certainly will not be in CoF where you can AFK fights. No. If we were to test your claims we would test them in errr…. harsher settings e.g. CoE p3, AC p2 or Arah p4 on bosses where they have very clear time limits of when they can become vulnerable. I really do not understand your fascination with CoF path 1. It is an easy dungeon and any information on builds gained from there I personally would disregard. Anyone on any build can do that in a reasonable amount of time.

On another note, we do not use GS on our warrior builds in LOD and from what I have been told from some DnT members who briefly joined us (and from those who are happily with us) that they have also dropped it from their rotations as well. Please stop bringing up GS and HB in your dps comparisons, some of us will see your arguments in a better light if you do. (if that is still possible x.x)

Guang, I just don’t agree. You need something like 0/25/0/15/30 with companion’s might and vigorous spirits. :P

25 might stacks on pet + Pet Prowess, think about it

Ather.5091:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Wukunlin.8461:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

warriors basically rely on HB and Whirlwind Attack to maintain good DPS.

you still haven’t figured out warriors don’t use GS throughout a fight have you?

So warriors don’t use GS at all? No pushing Slave Driver to wall so you can Whirlwind him, etc.? Every single time I’ve used the word “DPS” in the context of a class other than the warrior, people have been posting screencaps of damage numbers from a weapon they don’t use?

If that’s the case, a whole lot of warriors like to complain at newbie mesmers for absolutely no reason.

Incidentally, switching to GS for HB only adds about 2% damage to the warrior’s damage output, versus just attacking with axe. I just realized this when I happened to crunch the numbers. You are probably better off packing an alternate offhand for your axe instead, unless it’s a boss you can Whirlwind on.

LOD does not do CoF. We have much more profitable farms. If we were to test your theory that a non WWGMX party is optimal it most certainly will not be in CoF where you can AFK fights. No. If we were to test your claims we would test them in errr…. harsher settings e.g. CoE p3, AC p2 or Arah p4 on bosses where they have very clear time limits of when they can become vulnerable. I really do not understand your fascination with CoF path 1. It is an easy dungeon and any information on builds gained from there I personally would disregard. Anyone on any build can do that in a reasonable amount of time.

On another note, we do not use GS on our warrior builds in LOD and from what I have been told from some DnT members who briefly joined us (and from those who are happily with us) that they have also dropped it from their rotations as well. Please stop bringing up GS and HB in your dps comparisons, some of us will see your arguments in a better light if you do. (if that is still possible x.x)

You are free to test them wherever you want. I thought you were doing CoF because you were talking about. It’s also convenient because it’s nice and short so you can do multiple consecutive runs to test the incremental marginal effect of switching out one character without it taking forever. I suppose you could do that with any boss that appears early on, but no one really wants to do half a dungeon run and just quit and start over.

Arah P4 is super long, I can’t imagine running that like ten consecutive times to get accurate data.

Once more, where are those fabulous 100b screens refering to your dps calculations?

Also P4 isn’t super long, it’s 25 minutes in a 4 warrior 1 mesmer/guardian group (we stopped using both already a while ago because it’s simply a dps loss). Well yeah, in a 3 ranger 1 engi 1 guardian group it may take forever.

Just seen this on gw2 lfg:

“LF2 Berserk War for p1 farm runs – 30mins+ | Experienced Only | Gear Check | We’re with an optimized zerk ranger, if you’re too stupid to think he can’t replace a war, don’t join, thanks.”

This must be a troll.

colesy.8490:

Just seen this on gw2 lfg:

“LF2 Berserk War for p1 farm runs – 30mins+ | Experienced Only | Gear Check | We’re with an optimized zerk ranger, if you’re too stupid to think he can’t replace a war, don’t join, thanks.”

This must be a troll.

We’re all just too stupid to understand.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Ather.5091:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Wukunlin.8461:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

warriors basically rely on HB and Whirlwind Attack to maintain good DPS.

you still haven’t figured out warriors don’t use GS throughout a fight have you?

So warriors don’t use GS at all? No pushing Slave Driver to wall so you can Whirlwind him, etc.? Every single time I’ve used the word “DPS” in the context of a class other than the warrior, people have been posting screencaps of damage numbers from a weapon they don’t use?

If that’s the case, a whole lot of warriors like to complain at newbie mesmers for absolutely no reason.

Incidentally, switching to GS for HB only adds about 2% damage to the warrior’s damage output, versus just attacking with axe. I just realized this when I happened to crunch the numbers. You are probably better off packing an alternate offhand for your axe instead, unless it’s a boss you can Whirlwind on.

LOD does not do CoF. We have much more profitable farms. If we were to test your theory that a non WWGMX party is optimal it most certainly will not be in CoF where you can AFK fights. No. If we were to test your claims we would test them in errr…. harsher settings e.g. CoE p3, AC p2 or Arah p4 on bosses where they have very clear time limits of when they can become vulnerable. I really do not understand your fascination with CoF path 1. It is an easy dungeon and any information on builds gained from there I personally would disregard. Anyone on any build can do that in a reasonable amount of time.

On another note, we do not use GS on our warrior builds in LOD and from what I have been told from some DnT members who briefly joined us (and from those who are happily with us) that they have also dropped it from their rotations as well. Please stop bringing up GS and HB in your dps comparisons, some of us will see your arguments in a better light if you do. (if that is still possible x.x)

You are free to test them wherever you want. I thought you were doing CoF because you were talking about. It’s also convenient because it’s nice and short so you can do multiple consecutive runs to test the incremental marginal effect of switching out one character without it taking forever. I suppose you could do that with any boss that appears early on, but no one really wants to do half a dungeon run and just quit and start over.

Arah P4 is super long, I can’t imagine running that like ten consecutive times to get accurate data.

Why would you test a build in a level 75 dungeon? Regardless if it’s convenient, if you want to test the maximum efficiency and effectiveness of a build, do it in CoE, HotW, or Arah.

You know… After testing my Ranger some more, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Guang isn’t wrong (at least concerning Rangers).

not sure if brazilpost or seriouspost

Well, I did CoE path 1 and was able to keep Frost Spirit and my pet alive the whole time, so that surely made a difference. I’m not sure how well it would fare in a fight where things would die to AoE all of the time, but I was surprised to say the least.

Speaking of guang, I’m still wondering about 0/25/0/15/30 vs 30/25/0/15/0 in terms of ranger dps. Seems marks line is only good for vuln stacking whereas beasmastery is max dps imo. I want to know what guang thinks. All I can say about guang at this point is he makes a lot of plausible arguments but it’s all theoretical right now.

I really hate rangers. Everytime there’s pain in Aetherblade Retreat, it’s because some ranger just wants to stand on a crate apart from the group and shoot his longbow instead of meleeing with the group.

I have a melee ranger build that I have found performs quite well, providing damage and utility. Will be posting it to ranger forums in next day or two; I’d like to provide video footage.

NVM, got the info I needed! TY

ilr.9675:

I’m going ignore the shrieking voice in the back of my brain who obviously knows better, and go ahead and revive this temporarily to make the following humble Request…

I’d REALLY like to just see how my own Ranger performs in a standard Arah Path … & then hopefully Path 4 too if I can convince/bribe 3-4 people here to agree to it. *(I can pull atleast 1 person from my Guild as well to fill in if needed). …b/c really, that’s the better DPS test, not some COF kiddy path for test tube builds.

It’s basically a Paraway/Regen support build. …think standard Bogs farming/runner setup… mostly Melee weaps for DPS :p …don’t need a speed clear party, just folks like SkyChef or others from the old December/January crew who got’er’done even when Path1 was totally bugged. Those guys knew my Guardian never failed it. So I’m asking like minded folks to volunteer for a quick test of this. It would be greatly appreciated for educational purposes & ranger confidence in general.

Any Volunteers please?

Pretty bored with the game, u can count me in for kittens and giggles

Broadicea.8294:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Don’t count the Acolytes since Warriors can kill them faster.

And don’t use Time Warp because it makes warrior groups higher DPS than ranger/engy groups (like they aren’t already).

I don’t know why I’m even bothering to take this kitten seriously, I know exactly what’s going to happen. Wish the trolls would just kitten off already.

Time warp is weaker on rangers than it is with warriors. Another reason why warriors have better dps, because they can make use of time warp. Any party oriented boon effects are weakened with rangers. That is because PETS STEAL BOONS. Boons affect 5 max. Pets count towards that 5. If you had 3 rangers, there would be 3 people/pets left out of each party buff. This would be mitigated by the 15 in vitality, if the pet didn’t steal the boon from another player. I’m pretty sure the game prioritizes at least some effects as pet being the same as actual player. I seem to remember using a condition removal shout in CoE and it not removing a condition on one party member. There was one ranger in that party. Anyone care to confirm this?

^ Well that’s pretty Depressing… ^ And begs the question of why we as Rangers don’t get Twice as many Might & Fury shouts/traits?? IE: we’d need that many just to cover what our pets taking up

swiftpaw.6397:

ilr.9675:

I’m going ignore the shrieking voice in the back of my brain who obviously knows better, and go ahead and revive this temporarily to make the following humble Request…

I’d REALLY like to just see how my own Ranger performs in a standard Arah Path … & then hopefully Path 4 too if I can convince/bribe 3-4 people here to agree to it. *(I can pull atleast 1 person from my Guild as well to fill in if needed). …b/c really, that’s the better DPS test, not some COF kiddy path for test tube builds.

It’s basically a Paraway/Regen support build. …think standard Bogs farming/runner setup… mostly Melee weaps for DPS :p …don’t need a speed clear party, just folks like SkyChef or others from the old December/January crew who got’er’done even when Path1 was totally bugged. Those guys knew my Guardian never failed it. So I’m asking like minded folks to volunteer for a quick test of this. It would be greatly appreciated for educational purposes & ranger confidence in general.

Any Volunteers please?

Pretty bored with the game, u can count me in for kittens and giggles

No worries… just did it. Stacked on Lupi melee style. EZPZ the second try :p
Not happy with Ranger DPS still… but wasn’t exactly carried either. (downed once…
…would call that better than expected) Thx for stepping up tho!

I’m pretty sure boons were tweaked to prioritize players in range over npcs in range.

Pets dont take boons over players.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Wethospu.6437:

Dempsey.8760:

Empowered allies does not stack. Warrior provides support to the group through DPS while still able to bring group might, vuln and group fury, better than any other class. It is very simple, high dps, group might, group fury, and vuln.
Having 3 banners on 1 warrior is just, well, I tried not to laugh. Then I laughed a lot.
—

Care to educate me why 3 banners is funny on a Warrior?

My Ranger CoF video proves it’s a valid tactic.

I was in that video brazil…
3 banners on 1 warrior is funny because most of the dungeon groups are formed by pugs.
1.) you can not trust pugs to pick up your banners if needed from fight to fight.
2.) If the pugs do not want to skip and insist on killing everything you still can not trust them to pick up your banners.
3.) war banner and 1 normal banner would be fine, but it is almost a given to have FGJ taking a second banner makes you choose between a stun break or fgj. Not having a stun break in a pug group is, abysmal.
Though fgj isn’t really needed since a banner would offer more sustained dps most pugs have discovered that stacking fury is a good thing and fgj helps. Plus you can never really rely on people taking the 2 correct banners.

I haven’t seen any significant test that tells me engi dps is any good besides magic land spread sheet numbers that guan likes to hype up.
We have discovered that ranger isn’t too bad but the sword animation is still very clunky people using it that don’t know how will most likely die, dead dps is useless as we all know.
aside from all that i still see no reason to take anything less than 2w 1g 1m 1X and X i would prefer an ele anyways.

@ Puandro, iirc the ranger build takes boons applied to the ranger and adds them to the pet, what sucks is this needs to be traited, but still a non-issue.

@Guan, I believe after this patch it was proven the axe/mace+axe and the axe/mace+gs builds carried the same dps, one coming completely from auto attacks and 1 from axe autos and 100b. By your logic pure axe would be dealing more damage because it only auto attacks? or would they still deal about the same since, you know, while 100b and ww are on cd you are still axe auto attacking.

Player Character.9467:

I’m pretty sure boons were tweaked to prioritize players in range over npcs in range.

They were. This happened a while back. If there are five players in range of a boon or positive skill effect, the pet will take a lower priority and won’t receive the boon.

Usually the only way to get boons onto a pet is either directly through a skill or trait, or through Fortifying Bond.

Dempsey.8760:

aside from all that i still see no reason to take anything less than 2w 1g 1m 1X and X i would prefer an ele anyways.

I would prefer a Ranger over the ele assuming the ranger is good. Spotter and Frost Spirit are better group DPS buffs than Ele blast finishers. If the ranger can’t dodge with sword, then forget it. But if they can, Spotter is a tier one trait.

Puandro.3245:

Pets dont take boons over players.

That’s why you always always always run Fortifying Bond in dungeons:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Mighty-Ranger-High-Level-FOTM-7-12-2013/first#post2287031

Chopps.5047:

Puandro.3245:

Pets dont take boons over players.

That’s why you always always always run Fortifying Bond in dungeons:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Mighty-Ranger-High-Level-FOTM-7-12-2013/first#post2287031

The point was some1 said ranger pets are bad cuz they steal boons.

Player Character.9467:

Chopps.5047:

Puandro.3245:

Pets dont take boons over players.

That’s why you always always always run Fortifying Bond in dungeons:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Mighty-Ranger-High-Level-FOTM-7-12-2013/first#post2287031

The point was some1 said ranger pets are bad cuz they steal boons.

Players in range always take priority over pets, this was fixed a long time ago for mesmers, rangers, necro’s, thieves, rune of the ogre, etc.

Chopps… you just repeated that

Person 1 “Problem with pets is they steal boons”
Person 2 “No, pets don’t take boons over players, players prioritized over pets and have been for a while”
Person 3 “That’s why you always take fortifying bond in dungeons”
Person 4 “The conversation was about whether or not pets would interfere with boons hitting party members”
Person 3 “Players in range take priority over pets, this was fixed long time ago”

Dempsey.8760:

@Guan, I believe after this patch it was proven the axe/mace+axe and the axe/mace+gs builds carried the same dps, one coming completely from auto attacks and 1 from axe autos and 100b. By your logic pure axe would be dealing more damage because it only auto attacks? or would they still deal about the same since, you know, while 100b and ww are on cd you are still axe auto attacking.

The GS/Axe swap rotation is not really worth it anymore because you no longer have room to take Slashing Power. You also need to complete your axe chain before swapping since the damage is all backloaded now, so your rotation now looks like two axe chains (7.2s total) > HB (4s total) > 1 GS auto swing > back to axe, and without Slashing Power that 5 seconds in GS is actually less damage than the equivalent in axe. It is worth doing if you can also get a full Whirlwind, otherwise just stick to Axe.

Axe/Axe isn’t really worth it either, I dunno why people bring that. Bring Axe/Sword or get a longbow for might stacking or something.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dempsey.8760:

@Guan, I believe after this patch it was proven the axe/mace+axe and the axe/mace+gs builds carried the same dps, one coming completely from auto attacks and 1 from axe autos and 100b. By your logic pure axe would be dealing more damage because it only auto attacks? or would they still deal about the same since, you know, while 100b and ww are on cd you are still axe auto attacking.

The GS/Axe swap rotation is not really worth it anymore because you no longer have room to take Slashing Power. You also need to complete your axe chain before swapping since the damage is all backloaded now, so your rotation now looks like two axe chains (7.2s total) > HB (4s total) > 1 GS auto swing > back to axe, and without Slashing Power that 5 seconds in GS is actually less damage than the equivalent in axe. It is worth doing if you can also get a full Whirlwind, otherwise just stick to Axe.

Axe/Axe isn’t really worth it either, I dunno why people bring that. Bring Axe/Sword or get a longbow for might stacking or something.

Or Axe / Mace and Axe / Sword with Sigil of Battle.