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Posted by: Manijin.3428

Manijin.3428

Alright, I know people are up in arms about the recent statements made by ArenaNet regarding changing the PvE meta, but I wanted to talk about the good that could come of it, and how exactly we would like to see this change come about.

Now, obviously, we don’t wanna see mechanics that simply punish players with low HP pools, or require an infinite number of dodges, or something else equally ridiculous. Rather, we should talk about, and give ideas, that might lead towards a dungeon style that rewards build diversity.

So, here’s the question: What do you think might change the game in such a way as to promote build diversity within dungeon groups?

I’m gonna go ahead and start with a few ideas of my own, which you may, or may not, comment on as you see fit: :P

1) As it stands, dungeons follow a set pattern. Trash, Boss, Trash, Boss, repeat. This isn’t a bad thing, but there is no variety, typically, within the pieces of this pattern that encourage various build types. What if, say, there was a part of a dungeon which required the party to split up, either 2-3 or 1-4, or even multiple smaller groups, each of which requires the others to proceed to the next area? Some of the various split-ups might even require specific builds, like one path requiring a tankier character to survive a powerful series of unavoidable traps while performing X action, or one path having a stone-hide bear that can only be damaged by conditions.

2) Bosses can have interesting mechanics, as we’ve seen, but we need a reason to BE tough, or have condition damage, or heal allies that pertains to the mechanics of the bosses. This may come as a surprise, but why not take a lesson from (gasp!) PvP?

We have this capture point/king of the hill system in place, and various mechanics that could be effective, like cannons, trebuchets, Asuran Megalasers… why aren’t we using them? I mean, I get that we’re in a small 5 man group, but you can still throw a little spectacle in there :P. Maybe we can do something cool, like have allies capture and HOLD points that, every few seconds, fire a barrage of damage at the boss, but again, require a tougher character to hold. Not ONLY would this encourage having at least 1 tough character, but it also makes sPvP more intuitive to new players, who can understand the concept of “stand here and hold the point against assault”, and even have a little practice at it.

What if we had physical-immune illusions that damaged the players, but could be popped by condition damage (or maybe even… CC) and deal damage or inflict controlling effects on enemies or bosses, or even have it be the main mechanic in a puzzle.

The biggest problem, as I see it, is finding a way to make healing, especially in a group setting, have a big impact on the overall dungeon progression. I mean, boons give obvious aid, but how do you make over-the-top healing contribute without being overpowered? I’m gonna be honest: I don’t know. I’d love to see some ideas, though!

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: mahariel.4981

mahariel.4981

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvE-Revising-the-DPS-Meta/first#post3480529

Brace yourselves.

I’m expecting some sort of lame trinity, dredge or some sort of PVT-friendly mechanics.

Sanctum of Rall (NA) | [LOD]
Morrï Mahariel | Serah Mahariel | Morrï
A bunch of amateur solos from yours truly

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Posted by: guanlongwucaii.3162

guanlongwucaii.3162

it might be better for anet to leave the DPS meta as it is because they’re useless and can’t seem to make decent decisions/fun content now. their idea of content where zerker is less useful is most often timegated trash or stupid gimmicks.

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Posted by: dutchiez.7502

dutchiez.7502

Can’t wait.

Nova [rT]

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Posted by: Amineo.8951

Amineo.8951

Why not making instead a difficulty increase in dungeons so the final bosses or ennemies like Lupicus are no longer Legendary but Epic with knew mechanics? There’s far too less Epic rank bosses aside from World Bosses in this game.

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

Looking forward to more TA aetherpaths. Can’t wait!

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Posted by: Elrey.5472

Elrey.5472

yes, finally!

ES Wiki Sysop. Vanquiser of the Marionette, Lover of the Aetherpath.
Aens / Ellantriel / Nao To Mori / Saelyth. Commander
Guias de Raids en español / Spanish raiding guides

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Posted by: a t s e.9614

a t s e.9614

There will never be a fix to zerker until we are able to tank or heal. But the selling point was no trinity , so it will never happen. But anet could reverse it , like with the " There will be no grind in guild wars 2" statement.

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Posted by: Bread.7516

Bread.7516

it might be better for anet to leave the DPS meta as it is because they’re useless and can’t seem to make decent decisions/fun content now. their idea of content where zerker is less useful is most often timegated trash or stupid gimmicks.

I agree. As i said in the other thread:

The only legit way to make 100% zerk less desired is to make smarter AI; mobs with actual ability to react to player skills or mobs with more synergy and sensible movements.

Any stat adjustment to mobs or adding anti-dps skills is just being lazy.

How much you guys want to bet they’ll take the lazy route?
(and no, the nightmare LS mobs are not smart AI at all)

(edited by Bread.7516)

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Posted by: Mirsa.1628

Mirsa.1628

“RIP in peace” was on purpose, right? :>

[GS] Gun Squad
Guild Master

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Posted by: Nikaido.3457

Nikaido.3457

If they introduce a lot of unavoidable damage they better give us a way to swap ascended gear stats. I’m not going to bother with this game anymore if they tell me all the time spent on all my alts has to be thrown away, fractal reset style. They flipped the bird at us once and a second time won’t be tolerated.

- “No tears, please. It’s a waste of good suffering.”

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Posted by: Emanuel.9781

Emanuel.9781

>Berserker equipment’s power has been reduced by 33%, critical damage replaced by healing power
>Assassin equipment’s precision has been reduced by 33%, critical damage replaced by condition duration
>Player characters now have damage barriers which increase in capacity the more toughness/vitality they have and can store up to 100k damage, which can be reflected back to enemies
>We have added unblockable, unevadeable and ignoring invulnerability skill facts to almost all hostile Non-Player-Characters throughout Tyria and it’s dungeons/fractals
>We want to promote the tanking, healing and (staff)support playstyle that the majority of our playerbase prefers

>[…several more anti dodging, anti active damage mitigation, anti REFLECTS , anti personal player skill changes…]

Post your fake patchnotes.

Rezardi [DnT] – Elite Playhowiwanter US
NemesisMMNecro [rT] – Trans-Transsylvanian RPer EU

(edited by Emanuel.9781)

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Posted by: Quickfoot Katana.8642

Quickfoot Katana.8642

LEGIT PATCHNOTES

  • Added a self-report option for players that insist on using Berserker’s armor and that refuse to let friendly pugs play with them.
  • Dealing damage now applies 1 stack of Exploit for every 750 damage the boss takes. Each stack lasts 10 seconds. If the boss reaches 50 Exploit stacks, he resets and the whole party is wiped.
  • All dungeon corners now have a weakness-inducing trap that pulses that condition every second. Players reaching long duration weakness are downed and gain a special title: I am a Corner Hugger, Please Hug while you Report Me

Special feature: when said player is reported he automatically whispers you: thank you brave PVT pug for the report, god bless you, ALL IS VAIN

(edited by Quickfoot Katana.8642)

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Posted by: Dog.1472

Dog.1472

Man that whole forum is just painful. Reading posts from people who aren’t even literate saying things like, “when i play guh ele it just feels so week comprd 2 me warir i think it ned mor damge.” These people are clueless and I feel like devs will listen to people who have no idea how to play their class, have no experience in the game and don’t even understand the current meta in the first place.

Now we have them wanting to change the way people focus on DPS but how? If they want to make non DPS focus useful then they would have to reintroduce the trinity which goes against the entire concept of the game. They could make conditions useful, but that wouldn’t really change how DPS is still the focus.

Looking at what he said, he said he wants to address the dominance of berserker. Looking at that, I bet they want to reduce the amount of damage berserker is capable of. That changes nothing. People are still going to bring and demand the highest DPS gear whatever it is.

“Please, you can look down on people without having to be physically above them.
As an asura, I do this all the time.”

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Posted by: Wondrouswall.7169

Wondrouswall.7169

The clerics and soldiers have won… They have finally won… May kittens help us all…

Attachments:

PET PRECISION & DPS TESTS -OUTDATED-
Will update once Path of Fire releases.

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Posted by: Sanderinoa.8065

Sanderinoa.8065

More info next week, I think.

Most accurate line ever given

Delvert/Sanderinoa [rT]
Retaliate is recruiting. again!
Fancy a Read? Extensive PvE Mesmer Guide

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

EVEN MORE LEGIT PATCH NOTES

  • The kick function has now been removed. Now when someone joins your party you must accommodate them and whichever build they decide to run. This is to create a better sense of community.
  • To leave a party formed using the LFG tool one must wait approximately 1 hour. This is to ensure that dungeons are completed within an appropriate time as has always been intended. This also ensures that anyone who thinks they can just ‘up and leave’ a party because they think it’s full of ‘bads’ will stop and have a serious think about why they are playing this game.
  • The use of ‘damage’ gear sets.

This has been a serious issue for us and we feel that ’damage gear sets fall into this category:

Any gear sets that have power or precision stats are considered damage sets

These gear sets were initially designed for people to try out as they leveled up and then to be discarded as they realized that survivability sets were clearly what was intended to be used in dungeons. This unfortunately is not the case and we have seen a rather large explosion of the populace take these gear sets into dungeons. We are very clear on this. This is an exploit. Damage sets, and in particular ‘Berserker’ will not be tolerated within the confines of dungeons.

  • Added a code that detects the use of berserker gear in dungeons and forwards this information along with all combat logs to an appropriate administrator.
  • Added Aetherblade mobs to every dungeon path. This is required so that living failure story can be incorporated into the one place that hardcores thought they could avoid it.
  • Added a new combat function. Whenever players come within a 100 radius of one another they receive a debuff called ‘stop hitting yourself! Stop hitting yourself! Why are you hitting yourself!?’

This debuff will cause immediate knock back in a random direction followed by a prompt death. This is discourage the exploit of stacking before we have to take more drastic measures such as banning accounts.

  • Added a new NPC to every dungeon path. If this NPC dies, the dungeon will bug out be required to be restarted. This is a change required to create a more immersive atmosphere for the audience that dungeons were initially designed for: Roleplayers.
  • Added chuck the Bartender to every dungeon path. One must type ‘/emote Chuck, please fix my armor!’ to repair their gear. This npc replaces the pre existing repair anvils.
  • Removed Giganticus Lupicus from all paths of Arah. It has come to our attention that this boss fight does not come close to anything we outlined in out initial design manifesto. Furthermore, those who solo’d this boss are to recieve punishment for ‘exploiting’ as per our agreement with the lfg white knight kickers who have far more knowledge than us on who and who does not exploit along with how it is done.
  • This fight has now been replaced with an underwater combat area in which players will face off against an ancient underwater dredge car that spits out aetherblade mobs. Once these are all defeated the car will morph faster than a bad mesmer can moa form lupicus’s locusts. It’s final form will be that of a random Hotw end boss.

-Enjoy
<3

(edited by J Eberle.9312)

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Posted by: Lunar Sunset.8742

Lunar Sunset.8742

After months and months, clerics and soldiers have finally slain the beast that is zerk meta.

Sunset
50/50 GWAMM x3
I quit how I want

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Posted by: CptAurellian.9537

CptAurellian.9537

Well, now there are two possible paths:

a) Nothing will happen at all. Since the devs don’t understand the game, they will change some stuff that does not affect anyone. I’d prefer it this way.

b) They accidentally hit something that really changes the game and breaks it. At least that would be a good argument to put GW2 finally to rest.

Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.

There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley

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Posted by: LittleLepton.8915

LittleLepton.8915

Also here’s my 2c. In that thread someone mentioned they hope things get buffed rather than zerk get nerfs. I agree with this, but I’d like to expand on it.

If they made gearing with toughness in mind a thing, it would have to be able to avoid one hit downs. So toughness has to be buffed to have more damage mitigation. And mechanics that do damage based on the percentage of a characters health, like agony, would have to be removed altogether to make vitality worth gearing into as well. Healing power would actually, I think, have to increase the amount of people it can heal using fields/aoe, which won’t be useful in dungeons STILL, so that’s moot. Condition cap would have to be gotten rid of, condition duration and damage would need to be buffed so that bosses could actually be affected by them. So, probably defiant would have to go.

All of these tell me that when they say they’re looking into it, they mean nerf ing berserkers. Else their dungeon and boss mechanics would be trivialized, and they’d have to redo everything.

RIP berserkers <\3

You don’t know me.

#LilithFan#1

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: Quickfoot Katana.8642

Quickfoot Katana.8642

boss mechanics would be trivialized

Oh you.

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Posted by: LittleLepton.8915

LittleLepton.8915

boss mechanics would be trivialized

Oh you.

Hahaha sorry.

You don’t know me.

#LilithFan#1

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Posted by: mahariel.4981

mahariel.4981

If we ever require more damage mitigation, first thing I’m trying is blast finishers on water fields.

GX+Axe/wh new warrior meta!

Sanctum of Rall (NA) | [LOD]
Morrï Mahariel | Serah Mahariel | Morrï
A bunch of amateur solos from yours truly

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Posted by: Errant Venture.9371

Errant Venture.9371

If we ever require more damage mitigation, first thing I’m trying is blast finishers on water fields.

GX+Axe/wh new warrior meta!

GS? You cray? Gotta be Hammer/Longbow for those controls + ranged blasts/immob. Jeeeeezzzz

The Battle Bakery [vPie]

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

You can’t tell me someone of you is surprised by this.
It was an expected change, because they know we’re going to hate it.
Precisely what they want.

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

You can’t tell me someone of you is surprised by this.
It was an expected change, because they know we’re going to hate it.
Precisely what they want.

inb4 dungeon forums is archived.

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

I wouldn’t joke on that…

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Posted by: guanlongwucaii.3162

guanlongwucaii.3162

colesy was pretty obvious, since his original account had the name “mahariel” in the signature.

now I wonder who “JMar” was…

Ethics… Duh lol

and this is of course Lilith. I’m too lazy to sign into my main ATM.

yep kinda guessed it was Ethics.

and your sig used to say that you’re Lilith :P

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Posted by: hybrid.5027

hybrid.5027

I want to post from my alt, too!

I know who I am, do you know who you are?

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Posted by: Miku Lawrence.6329

Miku Lawrence.6329

I wouldn’t joke on that…

Well they removed the Suggestions subforum instead, guess for now we are safe. Dungeons is second last ‘popular’ subforum, right before Music, kinda cool.

Snow Crows [SC]

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Posted by: Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

Most likely it will be a buff to condition damage, or something like defiant stacks granting damage reduction. They are certainly not going to change the stats of items, not going to manually change the skill set of every boss in the game, and they aren’t going to change the npc AI. So the only thing that makes sense is a nerf to Precision, a buff to Condition Damage or something where bosses get a reduction to phsyical damage. Or some kind of debuff where bosses take 50% more damage from conditions.

A typical condi spec for pve can max out at like 8-9k dps, with 25% of that being direct damage so a 50% boost to condition damage would make their dps comparable to a berserker’s direct damage.

Death and Taxes [DnT]
http://www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt
DnT is Recruiting – http://www.dtguilds.com/

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Posted by: Quickfoot Katana.8642

Quickfoot Katana.8642

I wouldn’t joke on that…

Well they removed the Suggestions subforum instead, guess for now we are safe. Dungeons is second last ‘popular’ subforum, right before Music, kinda cool.

So you’re saying is all we needed to avoid being deleted is to make more threads and post more,

puts tin foil hat

… which we can’t do because the ninjas are constantly firing infractions and raising our flood control over time, so that we are less encouraged to do so. We are slowly being brain-washed into posting less and less, so that they can finally remove this forum for once and for all, which was their plan all along.

Hrouda must have found out their plan and payed with his life for it.

removes tin foil hat

EDIT:
Someone screenshot this before they silence me aswell. What? Who’s ringing on the door? It’s late, come on! You don’t knock on peoples’ doors this late at night…. unless.. oh my god…

(edited by Quickfoot Katana.8642)

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

Don’t worry. It’s better this way. False hope is good.

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

If they introduce a lot of unavoidable damage they better give us a way to swap ascended gear stats. I’m not going to bother with this game anymore if they tell me all the time spent on all my alts has to be thrown away, fractal reset style. They flipped the bird at us once and a second time won’t be tolerated.

Suuuuuuuure, sure.
A refund.
Ha ha ha ha.
Ha.

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Posted by: maxinion.8396

maxinion.8396

Most likely it will be a buff to condition damage, or something like defiant stacks granting damage reduction. They are certainly not going to change the stats of items, not going to manually change the skill set of every boss in the game, and they aren’t going to change the npc AI. So the only thing that makes sense is a nerf to Precision, a buff to Condition Damage or something where bosses get a reduction to phsyical damage. Or some kind of debuff where bosses take 50% more damage from conditions.

A typical condi spec for pve can max out at like 8-9k dps, with 25% of that being direct damage so a 50% boost to condition damage would make their dps comparable to a berserker’s direct damage.

The buff to condi damage wouldn’t be so bad, then. This does seem like the most likely option, given that devs have mentioned in the past that they are looking into making condi more viable in PvE. All we can do is cross our fingers for now~

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Posted by: Miku Lawrence.6329

Miku Lawrence.6329

So you’re saying is all we needed to avoid being deleted is to make more threads and post more

Didn’t work for Suggestions, they sent the sub to Archives. :<

Snow Crows [SC]

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Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

I like it, my ele will finally dust off the Kasmeer’s staff and offer superior control plus support to my team instead of spamming 1, 2 and 5.

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Posted by: LittleLepton.8915

LittleLepton.8915

I like it, my ele will finally dust off the Kasmeer’s staff and offer superior control plus support to my team instead of spamming 1, 2 and 5.

Mmm dat Kasmeer’s staff <3 <3

I bought a couple, it would have gone on my main elementalist PERFECTLY…… But I had already gotten bifrost by that time. I’ve been seriously considering transferring bifrost to my level 13 elementalist norn though.

You don’t know me.

#LilithFan#1

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Cry me a river, I got Kasmeer’s staff…. for my mesmer.
Maybe I should really start crafting Bif….. ohhhhhhhhhhhhwait, I forgot no karma.
Plzplz make sure they destroy the actual guard meta so I have to transmute all my leggies into another character.
Go for eet.
I’m kinda happy since they can’t ruin my poor ranger more than it already is. At worst, I can craft Kudzu and pewpew the hell out of bosses in my obsolete zerk gear so I don’t die miserably.
Surely not going to craft another ascended armor. I’d rather uninstall.

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

Anet can’t win. If they create situations where different types of gear are required, or if they nerf zerker gear into the ground, then people will be upset they have to grind through another set of gear. But if they keep things the way they are, the game gets stale.

Of course they put themselves in this situation by introducing the Ascended grind.

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Posted by: KratosAngel.7289

KratosAngel.7289

As posted on this thread, this is a terrible, terribad, insanely bad piece of news :
“Jesus kittening Christ what have you done ?
Instead of buffing something else, of course they will just nerf zerk.
Moaaaar invulnerable to bosses, moaaaaar “hey hit me if you can you’ll be OS” and moaaaar lame immune to crit and kitten of the same kind “hello I’m immune to crit trolololololol you can’t even kill me fast !””

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Posted by: Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

But if they keep things the way they are, the game gets stale.

Only gets stale if you dont add new content.

Death and Taxes [DnT]
http://www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt
DnT is Recruiting – http://www.dtguilds.com/

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Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

Why not wait until you see what they change before flipping your kitten all over the place?

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

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Posted by: Adam.4103

Adam.4103

Because they don’t have a particularly good record when it comes to balancing.

Adam The Vanquisher
Gandara

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Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

Agreed… but you guys don’t even know what you’re complaining about yet (other than a change of some sort). Wait and see if/how they goof it up and then give suggestions on how to fix that goof and hope they listen. Complaining before you have any clue what they’ll do just makes people look like scared/crying players.

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

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Posted by: Fenrir.3609

Fenrir.3609

Because they don’t have a particularly good record when it comes to balancing.

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Posted by: Dog.1472

Dog.1472

I think most people here would agree that the current meta isn’t nearly as much of an issue is the content itself, so here they are apparently “fixing” the wrong thing. So yeah, not surprising people are preparing for the end of days.

“Please, you can look down on people without having to be physically above them.
As an asura, I do this all the time.”

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Posted by: Duanheim.9527

Duanheim.9527

Surely not going to craft another ascended armor. I’d rather uninstall.

If u crafted celestial like crafting is intended to be played there would be no need to anorther ascended since it’s so versitile.

I play how I want is the new meta.

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Posted by: LittleLepton.8915

LittleLepton.8915

Surely not going to craft another ascended armor. I’d rather uninstall.

If u crafted celestial like crafting is intended to be played there would be no need to anorther ascended since it’s so versitile.

I play how I want is the new meta.

Ow….

T.T

So glad there was a bug, then, that gave me 100s of charged quartz…. Except I really hope this isn’t the case because… Ow….

Attachments:

You don’t know me.

#LilithFan#1

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Leave it, he doesn’t get it anyway. “Wait and see”, yeah, as if we couldn’t do anything else, right? At least one can keep himself busy this way. Since when do they listen to complaints that aren’t “plz nerf dis” and “omg dat armor isn’t exclusive anymore remoov dis”?

Anet can’t win. If they create situations where different types of gear are required, or if they nerf zerker gear into the ground, then people will be upset they have to grind through another set of gear. But if they keep things the way they are, the game gets stale.

Of course they put themselves in this situation by introducing the Ascended grind.

Ohh, poor them.
You said it yourself. Who told them to introduce this ascended grind? Did you? Who did? I surely didn’t. Who did they talk to? Did the take any survey among the playerbase? Have they ever done that since beta? No… Until recently with that… LS bullkitten. Bah.
They put themselves in that situation. Precisely. Is it any more evident that this game isn’t built around the idea of a power creep? The supposedly hardest areas in the game bear no way to purchase ascended armor. Makes sense.
Now, if we had to take solely exotics in the problem, it would be very easy to solve. They’re easily accessible; everything would be just fine.
One could also tell me “hey, exotics are a bit weaker than ascended but not by much, you can use those”. Of course I can and I probably will, since a.t.m. I can’t afford more ascended armors and I won’t take the risk of crafting another one. Still, my desire to play close to optimally and my innocent wish to gear up my main and a few alts in BiS gear is, woe me woe us, too demanding!!! How dare I! I should earn it!
Months of grinding and I have ONE character in full ascended. Not even all the weaponsets. Woe me, spoiled little brat.

[insert random praise about x MMO by random y MMO player: but in dis mmo the grind is moar then in gw2 you entitled gw1 player whiner, gw1 wusnt an mmo mmos have gear grind and mounts!!!]

They can shove the “no gear grind” up… no, in… in the… please fingers stahp… They should put it into the big trashcan that was their ideals for the game.
Ugh.

Also this

Only gets stale if you dont add new content.

but this is harder than adding some powercreep and releasing some half-baked temporary content every 2 weeks.

[instert random comment about how I should go back to GW1.]
^
… I should definitely go back to GW1 for a visit. If I get some of my friends or some forum elitists to join me… Replay all the campaigns, all missions! Who’s in?