Guild Wars 2

Astralporing.1957:

Harper.4173:

You want to be the shiniest most hardcore looking player?Work for it.

There’s a difference between putting more effort into achieving something, and something being locked beyond some arbitrary “skill” (meaning, usually reaction time and manual coordination, and sometimes muscle memory) threshold. Legendaries fall into the first category, and thus are available for all players – it’s just some would need to work longer for them than others. Lot of the proposed “end game” ideas fall into the second, which means it would be just plain inaccessible to majority. There’s a place in this game for the first kind of “end game”, but second should be avoided.

Wait, what?
You want content that requires dumb luck and hours of stale grinding?
Well, I prefer to use my brain while playing.

If the attacks of bosses were easier to notice and react to, without lame auto-attacks with hitboxes that are too big, (Mossman,Archdiviner,Champ Etin, Sons of Svanir boss etc), I think everyone would be able to enjoy them. For example that one boss in Dry top Sparring Rock Master. And it also requires more balance between the attack speed of the boss and the dodge recovery. You can’t dodge every auto attack, so remove them or make them less frequent with higher dmg.

sorrow.2364:

Harper.4173:

It isn’t.

The way I see it – grind is something you have to do – you have to get that best armor or weapon to progress.

Grind the way I see it is something you are forced to do in order to be able to progress further in the game.

With purely cosmetic rewards there’s no obligation to work for them unless you actually want them.
And why did you assume it’d be a grind?

If you finish a run and get 5 tokens it’ll be relatively easy to get the weapon you want. And if you just want that 1 token it could be made very easy to get.

By your logic legendary weapons are also a grind because you have to work on them for a long time – yet they are in the game.

Same with dailies – you get 1 laurel each day by doing a few things. Is that grind? Is someone forcing you to do it?
Are you unable to play if you don’t?

Grind is not something you have to do.

Grind is repetitive content done for whatever purpose.

You’re asking to repeat the same contents at least 60 times to get a rewards, so your are pretty much encouraging people to do the same content over and over to get to their goals. This is exactly the vocabulary definition of grinding.

Legendary weapons are not a grind because they don’t force you to do repetitive contents to get them.
The crafting materials are obtained everywhere, skill points are scattered anywhere in the game, globs of ectoplasm can be obtained in multiple ways. Even the dungeon badges can be obtained by either run the dungeon or doing PvP.
You can make a legendary countless ways and they are not at all the same content repeated over and over.

Making a Legendary is a time sink. Your suggestion is grind.

Of course someone can do the champion train or running the same dungeons over and over to craft a legendary, but the game shouldn’t encourage anyone to do so.

So yes it is grind for cosmetic update , it is completly. ok you dont want grind content ? Dont do it , quick and easy go do non-grind content and enjoy it .

I still think rewards shouldn`t be for everyone , when you cant kill this boss , you dont get loot from him it is really easy .
Same with living story rewards I was also dewasteted when Anet just gave away ls items and people were still crying “we want shatterer wings !” . I just wanted to say “(word with f) you ! you want it ? so you should be playing when rewards were available !”
In gw there is no possibility to show off or show your achievements . Even 1500ap player can look like legendary champion who mastered all game modes .
We need :
-visible pvp/www ranks
-true pvp rewards only for pvper
-true www rewards only for wwwers
-true rewards for pve(fixing pve is different thing)
but something to let people stand above the crowd . right now noob running cof p1+spamming 1111111 on world bosses get more loot then hardcore players who run arah/aether path/wwwers/pvpers

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

So yes it is grind for cosmetic update , it is completly. ok you dont want grind content ? Dont do it , quick and easy go do non-grind content and enjoy it .

This game is a no-grind game. If you want a grindy game because you enjoy it, there are several korean MMO, some of them are also really polished, that wait for you.

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

I still think rewards shouldn`t be for everyone , when you cant kill this boss , you dont get loot from him it is really easy .

So you want skill-gated rewards or grind?

Illuminati.2431:

Hi there,
When you read the posts carefully, you can see there are 2 different groups and we want endgame content that is way different from each other.

There are more than two different groups and that’s a big part of why it’s difficult for us to discuss this (and why ANet has such a tricky time explaining their goals and road map).

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Illuminati.2431:

Hi there,
When you read the posts carefully, you can see there are 2 different groups and we want endgame content that is way different from each other.

There are more than two different groups and that’s a big part of why it’s difficult for us to discuss this (and why ANet has such a tricky time explaining their goals and road map).

Yes I know that there are more than 2 groups^^

Zoso.8279:

Zoso.8279:

To the OP thanks for the clarification I thought all “more end-game content” players wanted WoW type end game like a gear treadmill so this helps me understand the end-game argument a bit more. Imo the solution would be in rare skins for those who want to get good rewards for overcoming great obstacles. Skins don’t only have to be armor pieces but weapon pieces also. Heck throw in rare minis and dye to the mix and that would get me motivated!

Great, this is the reason why I started this thread in the first place, to clear things up ^^

As for other people who post here that say I left out a 3rd, 4th group etc. etc. I know there aren’t only 2 groups. There are more, hell, even more than 4 I guess.
All I wanted to do is clear up the misunderstanding of alot of players that once whey saw people talk about: “we want better/more/challenging/other end-game content”, they weren’t talking about WoW treadmill end-game.
I just put a 2nd group there, which is this case was the group I belong to, to point out the differences. And as you can see in the post I quoted, there where still some people that just thought of us as 1 group. A lot of good discussion died because of that.
So I am not saying there are only 2 groups, all I’m saying is that there is more than just 1 group, and I put my ‘own group’ as a second group for example and better understanding.

I just named the common group the wow treadmillers, as we are seen by a large majority, and the group I belong to as stated as group 2. That was just an example to show the big differences we can mean by endgame.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Illuminati.2431:

Hi there,
When you read the posts carefully, you can see there are 2 different groups and we want endgame content that is way different from each other.

There are more than two different groups and that’s a big part of why it’s difficult for us to discuss this (and why ANet has such a tricky time explaining their goals and road map).

If you have read everything that has been written to here you would know what already has been said about having more than 2 groups.So please stop right here.

moiraine.2753:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Illuminati.2431:

Hi there,
When you read the posts carefully, you can see there are 2 different groups and we want endgame content that is way different from each other.

There are more than two different groups and that’s a big part of why it’s difficult for us to discuss this (and why ANet has such a tricky time explaining their goals and road map).

If you have read everything that has been written to here you would know what already has been said about having more than 2 groups.So please stop right here.

No reason to stop if another point is being made, which in this case it is. Someone is not just saying there are more than two groups but why it’s so hard for Anet to communicate.

Take the current reaction to the new feature patch. A whole lot of people are saying there’s nothing in it for veterans. It’s only for new people.

And here am I, a veteran as much as anyone, thinking there’s a lot of cool stuff for veterans, even stuff that veterans have been asking for.

It’s not just enough to say yes there are more than two groups, but you have to go further and ask, well if there are 8,9, maybe 10 groups, how is any update going to please people.

It is reasonable for us to expect something for every group in every update?

I understand the OP’s point, but even if the people who want end game content aren’t looking for grind, it doesn’t substantively change the situation because there are so many groups.

sorrow.2364:

Grind is repetitive content done for whatever purpose.

…

Legendary weapons are not a grind because they don’t force you to do repetitive contents to get them.

…

Making a Legendary is a time sink. Your suggestion is grind.

This is the most ridiculous double-talk I’ve ever seen. Legendary Weapons in GW2 are a grind. You’ll be hard pressed to find any forum discussion about them that doesn’t say “grind” or “farm” in it. They are slightly less grindy than they used to be, but this doesn’t change the fact that at their core they are designed to be a ridiculously large item and time sink.

Where do you think all the Lodestones come from? From playing “how you want?”

It’s pretty amusing how people redefine words to suite their purposes. This is the definition of grinding.

Nokaru.7831:

sorrow.2364:

Grind is repetitive content done for whatever purpose.

…

Legendary weapons are not a grind because they don’t force you to do repetitive contents to get them.

…

Making a Legendary is a time sink. Your suggestion is grind.

This is the most ridiculous double-talk I’ve ever seen. Legendary Weapons in GW2 are a grind. You’ll be hard pressed to find any forum discussion about them that doesn’t say “grind” or “farm” in it. They are slightly less grindy than they used to be, but this doesn’t change the fact that at their core they are designed to be a ridiculously large item and time sink.

Where do you think all the Lodestones come from? From playing “how you want?”

It’s pretty amusing how people redefine words to suite their purposes. This is the definition of grinding.

Some of us aren’t really all that hung up with getting the legendary yesterday. And are content to let the materials needed trickle in.

But yes, if you actively try to get a legendary as quickly as you can, it will be a grind.

Honestly, I think the OP’s point is kind o a blackhole for Anet anyways.

People into ‘high end content’ usually follow a fairly predictable pattern.

1) Race to complete the content first (Many people skip this step)
2) Repeat the content until they’ve gotten all the rewards they want from that content.
3) Complain that there’s not enough content for them, or that it’s too easy.
(anet only alternative bit)
4) Complain that the rewards aren’t good or special enough for their achievement.

Dealing with this is a lose-lose. The group that’s into this kind of play is pretty small as a % of players, and they’re not going to be happy anyways.

I (badly) hit on this in my drunkpost last night. Guild Wars, 1 and 2, the real endgame and the really complex play were always supposed to be in pvp and wvw. That’s where the most unique rewards are (ie pvp only weapon and armor skins, although most of them are currently ‘not available at all’ weapon and armor skins), and that’s where they’ve been pushing the most rewarding prize systems lately.

To really please the ‘endgame pve!!!!’ crowd they’d have to do a bunch of things that are against their conception of the game, wouldn’t be very profitable, and are hopelessly poor design anyways.

Seera.5916:

Nokaru.7831:

sorrow.2364:

Grind is repetitive content done for whatever purpose.

…

Legendary weapons are not a grind because they don’t force you to do repetitive contents to get them.

…

Making a Legendary is a time sink. Your suggestion is grind.

This is the most ridiculous double-talk I’ve ever seen. Legendary Weapons in GW2 are a grind. You’ll be hard pressed to find any forum discussion about them that doesn’t say “grind” or “farm” in it. They are slightly less grindy than they used to be, but this doesn’t change the fact that at their core they are designed to be a ridiculously large item and time sink.

Where do you think all the Lodestones come from? From playing “how you want?”

It’s pretty amusing how people redefine words to suite their purposes. This is the definition of grinding.

Some of us aren’t really all that hung up with getting the legendary yesterday. And are content to let the materials needed trickle in.

But yes, if you actively try to get a legendary as quickly as you can, it will be a grind.

I’m sure it’s been said, but that’s the other thing people talking about legendary’s are missing.

GW2 has a ton of optional/variable goals. Doing a legendary is a grind if you a) want to do it) b) feel the need to push for it quickly.

Nokaru.7831:

sorrow.2364:

Grind is repetitive content done for whatever purpose.

…

Legendary weapons are not a grind because they don’t force you to do repetitive contents to get them.

…

Making a Legendary is a time sink. Your suggestion is grind.

This is the most ridiculous double-talk I’ve ever seen. Legendary Weapons in GW2 are a grind. You’ll be hard pressed to find any forum discussion about them that doesn’t say “grind” or “farm” in it. They are slightly less grindy than they used to be, but this doesn’t change the fact that at their core they are designed to be a ridiculously large item and time sink.

Where do you think all the Lodestones come from? From playing “how you want?”

It’s pretty amusing how people redefine words to suite their purposes. This is the definition of grinding.

Grinding refers to the playing time spent doing repetitive tasks within a game to unlock a particular game item or to build the experience needed to progress smoothly through the game. Grinding most commonly involves killing the same set of opponents over and over in order to gain experience points or gold.

Lodestones drops from any bag really. You can also sell the lodestones you don’t need to buy the ones you need.
How it is repetitive?

Again, time sink is not grind.
Grind implies repetitive content, time sink doesn’t.

Ian.1349:

I really don’t understand why this is even a debate. More challenging content should = higher rewards, less challenging content should = lesser rewards. It’s such a basic concept, anyone who is defending the current reward structure (which for whatever reason relies heavily on RNG for the more challenging content in the game, FoTM/Aether path/Teq/Wurm) is straight up stupid.

Why though? To make it ‘worth it’?

We’d be wrong to conflate ‘what we’re used to’ with ‘the best way to do it’.

It’s not the gear treadmill I want. I don’t know anyone that’s particularly interested in that. But there is something to be said about endgame raid content. It’s just challenging, and fun, and you do it with your guild (or take a serious pig dice roll). I’ve done wurm a couple times, and it is fun. There’s some raid in there for sure – mechanics! But it exists in a catch 22. Max level fight in an open world zone. The games you gotta play to land in an organized one, or to organize one. It would simply be better if smaller groups of people could do it. I know Anet has a bizarre fixation with keeping things outside, but at the very least tone down the numbers. Size doesn’t make the fight epic. A good fight does. You might even see guilds using the world boss spawn.

Windsagio.1340:

Ian.1349:

I really don’t understand why this is even a debate. More challenging content should = higher rewards, less challenging content should = lesser rewards. It’s such a basic concept, anyone who is defending the current reward structure (which for whatever reason relies heavily on RNG for the more challenging content in the game, FoTM/Aether path/Teq/Wurm) is straight up stupid.

Why though? To make it ‘worth it’?

We’d be wrong to conflate ‘what we’re used to’ with ‘the best way to do it’.

Yes. It’s a bigger challenge, it’s just logical that the reward go accordingly.
What is even the point to create a challenge if there’s no reward to hide behind it?

What is the “best way to do it” you’re talking about?

Haishao.6851:

Windsagio.1340:

Ian.1349:

I really don’t understand why this is even a debate. More challenging content should = higher rewards, less challenging content should = lesser rewards. It’s such a basic concept, anyone who is defending the current reward structure (which for whatever reason relies heavily on RNG for the more challenging content in the game, FoTM/Aether path/Teq/Wurm) is straight up stupid.

Why though? To make it ‘worth it’?

We’d be wrong to conflate ‘what we’re used to’ with ‘the best way to do it’.

Yes. It’s a bigger challenge, it’s just logical that the reward go accordingly.
What is even the point to create a challenge if there’s no reward to hide behind it?

What is the “best way to do it” you’re talking about?

See then it’s back to the reward, the challenge can’t be worth it on its own.

on what’s best, I don’t know for sure, but challenge == rewards is a fallacy.

as it is, challenge > reward or luck > reward and if neither works out for you, there’s a lot of work >> reward.

Things like fractals are slightly out of that model, I always end up hoping they do what they did with the rings. 10,000 fractal relics = 1 skin. It would match all the others then.

Illuminati.2431:

Hi there,

I’ve been reading alot of the topics posted on the forum and I notice a lot are about players who complain there is no ‘endgame’ content. Most of the times, I read that ‘we’(the players that want ‘real end-game content’) are seen as 1 group that think about 1 thing when it comes to end-game content: the standard WoW gear treadmill. This is not always the case, and many discussion are useless then, because the persons that shoot down the posters that want end-game content think that they mean they want WoW gear treadmill, which in alot of cases is not what that poster meant by end-game content.

When you read the posts carefully, you can see there are 2 different groups and we want endgame content that is way different from each other.

There is the WoW gear treadmill group. I have to say, I disagree with the players who want that kind of endgame content. It’s not going to happen, since launch that was clear. I too want end-game content, but not that kind of end-game content. These are the people that want to change the game, and I disagree with them.

BUT, there is also a second group that complains there is no real end-game content, but they want something completely different than the pro-wow gear treadmill guys.
What ‘we’ want is: challenging, replayable content that actually makes you feel that you have achieved something. Something you have to work for, practice your skills for, practice the mechanics because if you don’t know the mechanics, you fail. Not just some make-your-legendary-that-is-endgame-but-the-only-thing-it-is-is-farm-mats-and-gold-for-precursor-endgame. Ofcourse, this game aims at casual players, but even casual games need hard and challenging content. And this game is a MMO, even if you say you aim at casuals that play 2 hours in 2 days, you KNOW there are always people that play your game more, more than the standard casual player(but not necessarily as much as no-lifers). That’s just what happens when you create a MMO. And no, you can’t say: but hey, they said it was for casuals, you are a more hardcore player than a casual, so just go play another game. That’s like building a sportscar, but it is aimed to sell to grandma’s and grandpa’s that don’t drive harder than 100km/h. Even if you do so, you KNOW there are people outside that targeted audience that will buy that car, so you have to make that car go harder. Some products just have standardized expactions. Same goes for MMO’s.

So my point here is just to clear up those 2 types of groups. I disagree with the people that want the WoW gear treadmill stuff, but I strongly think this game needs end-game the way group 2 sees it.

I would note that the hardest most challenging dungeons aren’t played much because they don’t offer good enough rewards. Thats what the gear treadmill people are talking about. If the hard challenging content isn’t significantly more rewarding than easy content, few people will do it.

sirian.4981:

I would note that the hardest most challenging dungeons aren’t played much because they don’t offer good enough rewards. Thats what the gear treadmill people are talking about. If the hard challenging content isn’t significantly more rewarding than easy content, few people will do it.

I think people actually do the challenging content.

I just dont’ think people would repeat them often if it isn’t rewarding.

Vayne.8563:

moiraine.2753:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Illuminati.2431:

Hi there,
When you read the posts carefully, you can see there are 2 different groups and we want endgame content that is way different from each other.

There are more than two different groups and that’s a big part of why it’s difficult for us to discuss this (and why ANet has such a tricky time explaining their goals and road map).

If you have read everything that has been written to here you would know what already has been said about having more than 2 groups.So please stop right here.

No reason to stop if another point is being made, which in this case it is. Someone is not just saying there are more than two groups but why it’s so hard for Anet to communicate.

Take the current reaction to the new feature patch. A whole lot of people are saying there’s nothing in it for veterans. It’s only for new people.

And here am I, a veteran as much as anyone, thinking there’s a lot of cool stuff for veterans, even stuff that veterans have been asking for.

It’s not just enough to say yes there are more than two groups, but you have to go further and ask, well if there are 8,9, maybe 10 groups, how is any update going to please people.

It is reasonable for us to expect something for every group in every update?

I understand the OP’s point, but even if the people who want end game content aren’t looking for grind, it doesn’t substantively change the situation because there are so many groups.

Indeed there are many different groups of people like you stated. Maybe 8, 9, 10 groups.
You ask how you are going to please all those people?
If you read the different things they want, what they want, how they want it etc. etc., you see that there is one big thing they all have in common.

More challenging, replayable with better(better can mean different things here) rewards content. There is no discussion about that. All those different groups have that in common. The way to achieve that differs, but ultimately, they have the same goal.

So that’s how Anet can please ALL those groups, but to achieve that goal they can use the way that they like. The reason people complain is because there is not even the slightest clue that Anet is working on anything like this, but only on the exact opposite. Non-replayable, non rewardable(ofcourse there are rewards, but nothing special or nothing that can’t be achieved in any other way) SIMPLE content. Thats why everyone complains. But if you analyze the complaints, you can see, like I said a couple of sentences earlier, there is only 1 GOAL we want, but the way to achief it differs.

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

Vayne.8563:

What you have here is a good start, OP and I agree with your conclusions to a point. In fact, I’ve known all along that some people just want challenging content…like Liadri.

The issue becomes how many people are going to play that challenging content. This is where the rewards factor comes in.

Anet made a challenging dungeon, and it is challenging compared to other dungeons. I mean TA Aetherblade path is probably the hardest dungeon in the game. It’s not often run, because it’s not “rewarding”. And this is where the real problem starts.

In most MMOs, the harder content gives better rewards, which encourages people to do that content. Without the better rewards a lot of people simply won’t.

Which means those people aren’t doing hard content for fun, they’re doing hard content for rewards.

Rewarding hard content provides kitten and them situation. You get an upper class and an underclass in game.

The more you have of it, the more the new people and people who don’t really want to kill themselves to get a reward will feel disenfranchised…whether they’re wrong to feel that way or not.

This game works on a trickle theory. Everything you do trickles in. You get a trickle of rares and exotics, a trickle of tier six mats, a trickle of lodestones. Karma comes a bit faster and you can farm it, but at the end of the day, you’re not really going to be getting the “big” drops, because you can get drops anywhere.

What I’m trying to say is that if you make hard content you have to up the rewards and if you make that hard content rewarding, you run the risk of disenfranchising the casual player base, which I’m assuming is larger than the people who want hard content.

If you don’t make the rewards higher, then you have less people doing it and it becomes what TA Aetherblade Path is. A dungeon that took a long time to make but received only a little bit of use.

Put yourself in Anet’s place. If you make hard content and only a small percentage of the playerbase attempts it, or gets through it, would you keep making more hard content?

Casual playebase already has tones of casual content it is called gw2 pve . This should be normal that people who spend few hours mastering some really hard content should get better rewards instead of 2 blue 1 green

The issue here is that “hard” content gets solved by the good players, then they spend months farming that hard content while casuals either can’t or simply don’t want to do it. Which goes back to the upper and lower class problem.

Ian.1349:

I really don’t understand why this is even a debate. More challenging content should = higher rewards, less challenging content should = lesser rewards. It’s such a basic concept, anyone who is defending the current reward structure (which for whatever reason relies heavily on RNG for the more challenging content in the game, FoTM/Aether path/Teq/Wurm) is straight up stupid.

I totally agree with that. I understand not everyone thinks this way. But there should at least be a BALANCE between RNG rewards, and harder content == better rewards. Now you only have RNG rewards, while the FEW ‘hard’ content has really, really, really REALLY bad loot. There is no balance. Only RNG and gemstore.

sirian.4981:

The issue here is that “hard” content gets solved by the good players, then they spend months farming that hard content while casuals either can’t or simply don’t want to do it. Which goes back to the upper and lower class problem.

I felt the same way. The people that could solo Arah was making 20-30 gold per hour. Most other players are making pitiful gold compare to that.

But I think you can reward people with first time clear or some sort of token system, that isn’t always gold related.

sirian.4981:

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

Vayne.8563:

What you have here is a good start, OP and I agree with your conclusions to a point. In fact, I’ve known all along that some people just want challenging content…like Liadri.

The issue becomes how many people are going to play that challenging content. This is where the rewards factor comes in.

Anet made a challenging dungeon, and it is challenging compared to other dungeons. I mean TA Aetherblade path is probably the hardest dungeon in the game. It’s not often run, because it’s not “rewarding”. And this is where the real problem starts.

In most MMOs, the harder content gives better rewards, which encourages people to do that content. Without the better rewards a lot of people simply won’t.

Which means those people aren’t doing hard content for fun, they’re doing hard content for rewards.

Rewarding hard content provides kitten and them situation. You get an upper class and an underclass in game.

The more you have of it, the more the new people and people who don’t really want to kill themselves to get a reward will feel disenfranchised…whether they’re wrong to feel that way or not.

This game works on a trickle theory. Everything you do trickles in. You get a trickle of rares and exotics, a trickle of tier six mats, a trickle of lodestones. Karma comes a bit faster and you can farm it, but at the end of the day, you’re not really going to be getting the “big” drops, because you can get drops anywhere.

What I’m trying to say is that if you make hard content you have to up the rewards and if you make that hard content rewarding, you run the risk of disenfranchising the casual player base, which I’m assuming is larger than the people who want hard content.

If you don’t make the rewards higher, then you have less people doing it and it becomes what TA Aetherblade Path is. A dungeon that took a long time to make but received only a little bit of use.

Put yourself in Anet’s place. If you make hard content and only a small percentage of the playerbase attempts it, or gets through it, would you keep making more hard content?

Casual playebase already has tones of casual content it is called gw2 pve . This should be normal that people who spend few hours mastering some really hard content should get better rewards instead of 2 blue 1 green

The issue here is that “hard” content gets solved by the good players, then they spend months farming that hard content while casuals either can’t or simply don’t want to do it. Which goes back to the upper and lower class problem.

‘Upper’ class and ‘Lower’ class is a logical as 1+1=2. If you work more at the same job, you get paid more. If 2 people have the same intelect, but 1 invest way more time in studying the logical outcome of that will be that the one who studies more will become smarter. Its just logical.
Same as in games. People that spent more time in something should be rewarded better. But I’m NOT saying they should focus on these people who invest a lot of time in the game. Again, the magical word is balance. But there isn’t any balance.

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Most companies won’t come right out and say, you guys are a minority and we’re not going to cater to you. Why would they? Would you? They’ll do the best they can, but they’ll not usually say it.

But we’ve had comments over the years from devs from different companies, including Anet devs talking about Guild War 1, where they said the bulk of the people never do the challenging content. This isn’t something new, or something I just decided, or something I figured out recently. It’s been talked about in MMO forums for years. The most recent quote that I can find came form a lotro dev. Less than 10% of the game PvPed and did raids, not just at this point, but pretty much all along. 10% isn’t a big number to include both PvP and raids. He was talking about why they’re no longer making the raid instances they used to.

Again, if enough people were playing dungeons in general, Anet would have a dungeon team working full time on dungeons. Can you tell me why you think they wouldn’t?

Because a huge playerbase played SAB, asked them to death about it to rerelease, open old worlds etc. and nothing that even comes close to SAB in mechanics, reward system etc. has come out since what, like 1 year?

That’s why I think they wouldn’t.

What makes you think a huge playerbase played SAB? We know some vocal forum folks did, but nothing on the % of the player base.

sirian.4981:

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Most companies won’t come right out and say, you guys are a minority and we’re not going to cater to you. Why would they? Would you? They’ll do the best they can, but they’ll not usually say it.

But we’ve had comments over the years from devs from different companies, including Anet devs talking about Guild War 1, where they said the bulk of the people never do the challenging content. This isn’t something new, or something I just decided, or something I figured out recently. It’s been talked about in MMO forums for years. The most recent quote that I can find came form a lotro dev. Less than 10% of the game PvPed and did raids, not just at this point, but pretty much all along. 10% isn’t a big number to include both PvP and raids. He was talking about why they’re no longer making the raid instances they used to.

Again, if enough people were playing dungeons in general, Anet would have a dungeon team working full time on dungeons. Can you tell me why you think they wouldn’t?

Because a huge playerbase played SAB, asked them to death about it to rerelease, open old worlds etc. and nothing that even comes close to SAB in mechanics, reward system etc. has come out since what, like 1 year?

That’s why I think they wouldn’t.

What makes you think a huge playerbase played SAB? We know some vocal forum folks did, but nothing on the % of the player base.

I think that because EVERYONE I know played that the whole time. My guild, my friends, everyone. The lobby was sometimes even more crowded than LA. It’s the only temporary game mode that people sometimes ask about in general map chat. That, for me, is an indication that a lot of people played it. A couple of months ago, when I still played the game and was running dungeons, I often had discussions about SAB. 8 out of 10 in all those groups played SAB. Thats why I think it. I don’t say I’m right, I’m just saying the factors on which I base why I think a lot of players played it.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Morsus.5106:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Morsus.5106:

tigirius.9014:

you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere.

I love the new Tequatl encounter

Tequatl is the only real dragon at the moment.

As detrimental as it would be to the playerbase, I wish every dragon was that hard without prior planning.

That’s selfish though. not everyone has 45 minutes to devote to extensive boss planning “for glory” or “valiance” or some other knight kitten.

Casuals have all the other world bosses (‘cept for Wurm) so I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for one or two more Tequatl like encounters. Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer in particular would be awesome.

And again with assuming casuals want easy content, ugh.

Hello, Casual here. I like Teq. I like Wurm. I don’t think any true world boss should be brainless stand and spam 1. They all need some adjustments. They don’t all need to be super kitten hard, some varying level of coordination and challenge would add some spice imo.

You probably aren’t casual if you can consistently log on 30 minutes before the event timer just to get into the right instance to run Wrum.

Casuals would say “I only have an hour or two to play, I am not spending half of that sitting around waiting for the boss to appear”.

Illuminati.2431:

sirian.4981:

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Most companies won’t come right out and say, you guys are a minority and we’re not going to cater to you. Why would they? Would you? They’ll do the best they can, but they’ll not usually say it.

But we’ve had comments over the years from devs from different companies, including Anet devs talking about Guild War 1, where they said the bulk of the people never do the challenging content. This isn’t something new, or something I just decided, or something I figured out recently. It’s been talked about in MMO forums for years. The most recent quote that I can find came form a lotro dev. Less than 10% of the game PvPed and did raids, not just at this point, but pretty much all along. 10% isn’t a big number to include both PvP and raids. He was talking about why they’re no longer making the raid instances they used to.

Again, if enough people were playing dungeons in general, Anet would have a dungeon team working full time on dungeons. Can you tell me why you think they wouldn’t?

Because a huge playerbase played SAB, asked them to death about it to rerelease, open old worlds etc. and nothing that even comes close to SAB in mechanics, reward system etc. has come out since what, like 1 year?

That’s why I think they wouldn’t.

What makes you think a huge playerbase played SAB? We know some vocal forum folks did, but nothing on the % of the player base.

I think that because EVERYONE I know played that the whole time. My guild, my friends, everyone. The lobby was sometimes even more crowded than LA. It’s the only temporary game mode that people sometimes ask about in general map chat. That, for me, is an indication that a lot of people played it. A couple of months ago, when I still played the game and was running dungeons, I often had discussions about SAB. 8 out of 10 in all those groups played SAB. Thats why I think it. I don’t say I’m right, I’m just saying the factors on which I base why I think a lot of players played it.

I played the first SAB. The later I did play, but not to the extend.

I think the developer mentioned there is a huge drop off after the first SAB.

I don’t find the later SAB all that interesting myself, I think there’s too much focus on making it challenging and difficult. And it felt like I need to watch tutorial video for the later SAB to make it less tedious.

laokoko.7403:

Illuminati.2431:

sirian.4981:

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Most companies won’t come right out and say, you guys are a minority and we’re not going to cater to you. Why would they? Would you? They’ll do the best they can, but they’ll not usually say it.

But we’ve had comments over the years from devs from different companies, including Anet devs talking about Guild War 1, where they said the bulk of the people never do the challenging content. This isn’t something new, or something I just decided, or something I figured out recently. It’s been talked about in MMO forums for years. The most recent quote that I can find came form a lotro dev. Less than 10% of the game PvPed and did raids, not just at this point, but pretty much all along. 10% isn’t a big number to include both PvP and raids. He was talking about why they’re no longer making the raid instances they used to.

Again, if enough people were playing dungeons in general, Anet would have a dungeon team working full time on dungeons. Can you tell me why you think they wouldn’t?

Because a huge playerbase played SAB, asked them to death about it to rerelease, open old worlds etc. and nothing that even comes close to SAB in mechanics, reward system etc. has come out since what, like 1 year?

That’s why I think they wouldn’t.

What makes you think a huge playerbase played SAB? We know some vocal forum folks did, but nothing on the % of the player base.

I think that because EVERYONE I know played that the whole time. My guild, my friends, everyone. The lobby was sometimes even more crowded than LA. It’s the only temporary game mode that people sometimes ask about in general map chat. That, for me, is an indication that a lot of people played it. A couple of months ago, when I still played the game and was running dungeons, I often had discussions about SAB. 8 out of 10 in all those groups played SAB. Thats why I think it. I don’t say I’m right, I’m just saying the factors on which I base why I think a lot of players played it.

I played the first SAB. The later I did play, but not to the extend.

I think the developer mentioned there is a huge drop off after the first SAB.

I don’t find the later SAB all that interesting myself, I think there’s too much focus on making it challenging and difficult. And it felt like I need to watch tutorial video for the later SAB to make it less tedious.

I THINK, that is because it was the first serious hard content. You had to find out with trial and error. I think you get that point. GW2 players are so used to that everyone is said for them, they get explained EXACTLY what to do, and most of the times, when they have to do something, its spamming 1. Don’t get me wrong, I’m NOT saying you are one of those players. I’m just saying that MAYBE people got used to that easy bullkitten we get, and once there was something hard like world 2 tribulation mode, where the game doesn’t hold your hand anymore and you really have to find out the hard way, they don’t know what to do anymore. And yes, then you would feel like you needed to watch a tutorial. I’m not saying everything needs to be that hard, but just harder than the general content(on those rare occasions we actually get new content) we get right now.

Myself, and everyone I know that agrees with me we need more challenging content that can’t be done in 1 run, loved SAB world 2 tribulation. Not for its jumping, not for its 8 bit style, but because it was trial and error. It was diffecult and challenging, and we wouldn’t mind seeing more content that follow these principles.

sirian.4981:

The issue here is that “hard” content gets solved by the good players, then they spend months farming that hard content while casuals either can’t or simply don’t want to do it. Which goes back to the upper and lower class problem.

I just want to sit in Queensdale and look at the sky and I think it’s unfair that you get items from killing stuff while I don’t. Please give me your items.

Illuminati.2431:

More challenging, replayable with better(better can mean different things here) rewards content. There is no discussion about that.

Apparently you haven’t been reading the forums at all, or you’d know that there is a discussion. About both points actually – for any content you can think of, i remember at least one thread asking for reward nerf there. And there’s quite a lot of people that do not wish for any difficult content at all. Just for more content.

Astralporing.1957:

Illuminati.2431:

More challenging, replayable with better(better can mean different things here) rewards content. There is no discussion about that.

Apparently you haven’t been reading the forums at all, or you’d know that there is a discussion. About both points actually – for any content you can think of, i remember at least one thread asking for reward nerf there. And there’s quite a lot of people that do not wish for any difficult content at all. Just for more content.

Difficult can mean many things. As long as it doesn’t involve just spamming 1. And with better rewards I only mean better reward structure. Easy content==simpler rewards. Just a balance between content → rewards.

sorrow.2364:

Lodestones drops from any champion bag really. You can also sell the lodestones you don’t need to buy the ones you need.
How it is repetitive?

Have you ever done a Champion farm before? Just because the mobs look different, it doesn’t mean all you’re doing is spamming 1 while reading reddit.

That’s the reality of effortless content. It all congeals together and turns what could otherwise be varied content into a blur of similarity. Farming can become grinding.

sorrow.2364:

Harper.4173:

It isn’t.

The way I see it – grind is something you have to do – you have to get that best armor or weapon to progress.

Grind the way I see it is something you are forced to do in order to be able to progress further in the game.

With purely cosmetic rewards there’s no obligation to work for them unless you actually want them.
And why did you assume it’d be a grind?

If you finish a run and get 5 tokens it’ll be relatively easy to get the weapon you want. And if you just want that 1 token it could be made very easy to get.

By your logic legendary weapons are also a grind because you have to work on them for a long time – yet they are in the game.

Same with dailies – you get 1 laurel each day by doing a few things. Is that grind? Is someone forcing you to do it?
Are you unable to play if you don’t?

Grind is not something you have to do.

Grind is repetitive content done for whatever purpose.

You’re asking to repeat the same contents at least 60 times to get a rewards, so your are pretty much encouraging people to do the same content over and over to get to their goals. This is exactly the vocabulary definition of grinding.

Legendary weapons are not a grind because they don’t force you to do repetitive contents to get them.
The crafting materials are obtained everywhere, skill points are scattered anywhere in the game, globs of ectoplasm can be obtained in multiple ways. Even the dungeon badges can be obtained by either run the dungeon or doing PvP.
You can make a legendary countless ways and they are not at all the same content repeated over and over.

Making a Legendary is a time sink. Your suggestion is grind.

Of course someone can do the champion train or running the same dungeons over and over to craft a legendary, but the game shouldn’t encourage anyone to do so.

If grinding is the repetition of content for whatever purpose then I’m sorry to say adding more of it to GW2 won’t harm it at all since there’s barely 4-5 months worth of content in this game at all.

I’ve been playing it since day 1 ( actually 3 days early release) and by your logic for the last year and a half I’ve been grinding it like a boss.

Please allow me to disagree with the fact that “Legendary weapons are not a grind because they don’t force you to do repetitive contents to get them.”

Have you built one? Almost everyone I’ve seen have one either had the money to straight up buy it through credit card / TP flips or openly admitted he grinded the hell out of it.

Please tell me that the 500 WvW tokens you needed for the gift back in the day weren’t done by grinding them.

Please tell me the 500 AC tokens I needed for my legendary weren’t done by doing AC every single day until I had them.

And let’s not forget the gold – for the precursor and other things – I didn’t have to grind for that at all – I just got it all out of thin air.

My suggestion is also a time sink – since people could get their guaranteed token with a very small time investment every day.

“Of course someone can do the champion train or running the same dungeons over and over to craft a legendary, but the game shouldn’t encourage anyone to do so.”

If people didn’t do this – and just played random content every now and then I seriously doubt most legendary weapon users would have their weapon even 2+ years into the game.

Let’s face it – people want the grind. It keeps them working towards something.
And even if you consider it bad – I see nothing wrong with “optional grind” – you can choose if it’s for you. If not you can move on to something else.

There are those that play GW2 because they want to be a part of a community. Then those that play just to try and be above them. This game has way too many players trying to divide the community. Anet should not enable them in dividing the community.

sorrow.2364:

Nokaru.7831:

sorrow.2364:

Grind is repetitive content done for whatever purpose.

…

Legendary weapons are not a grind because they don’t force you to do repetitive contents to get them.

…

Making a Legendary is a time sink. Your suggestion is grind.

This is the most ridiculous double-talk I’ve ever seen. Legendary Weapons in GW2 are a grind. You’ll be hard pressed to find any forum discussion about them that doesn’t say “grind” or “farm” in it. They are slightly less grindy than they used to be, but this doesn’t change the fact that at their core they are designed to be a ridiculously large item and time sink.

Where do you think all the Lodestones come from? From playing “how you want?”

It’s pretty amusing how people redefine words to suite their purposes. This is the definition of grinding.

Grinding refers to the playing time spent doing repetitive tasks within a game to unlock a particular game item or to build the experience needed to progress smoothly through the game. Grinding most commonly involves killing the same set of opponents over and over in order to gain experience points or gold.

Lodestones drops from any bag really. You can also sell the lodestones you don’t need to buy the ones you need.
How it is repetitive?

Again, time sink is not grind.
Grind implies repetitive content, time sink doesn’t.

Also you definition as " repetitive content" is too broad – by your logic even WvW is a form of “grind” since you do the same things over and over again and nothing really changes.

DeWolfe.2174:

There are those that play GW2 because they want to be a part of a community. Then those that play just to try and be above them. This game has way too many players trying to divide the community. Anet should not enable them in dividing the community.

And there are those that play because they want shiny things. Why not give people their shinies ?

Community is one thing. Being marginalized because you want to get more out of your investment in the game is another thing.

DeWolfe.2174:

There are those that play GW2 because they want to be a part of a community. Then those that play just to try and be above them. This game has way too many players trying to divide the community. Anet should not enable them in dividing the community.

People play games because they are game. If you play game for any other reason than because it’s a game then it’s your own fault you don’t feel in your place.

Harper.4173:

DeWolfe.2174:

There are those that play GW2 because they want to be a part of a community. Then those that play just to try and be above them. This game has way too many players trying to divide the community. Anet should not enable them in dividing the community.

And there are those that play because they want shiny things. Why not give people their shinies ?

Community is one thing. Being marginalized because you want to get more out of your investment in the game is another thing.

And there are those that want that others don’t get shinies .. and that are those i have
a problem with.

Say ANet brings out 6 new armor sets per year .. but 4 of them are only for the 1%
that can solo Arah naked with a white level 5 weapon .. would that be good for
the game ?

Mac.3872:

Vayne.8563:

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Most companies won’t come right out and say, you guys are a minority and we’re not going to cater to you. Why would they? Would you? They’ll do the best they can, but they’ll not usually say it.

But we’ve had comments over the years from devs from different companies, including Anet devs talking about Guild War 1, where they said the bulk of the people never do the challenging content. This isn’t something new, or something I just decided, or something I figured out recently. It’s been talked about in MMO forums for years. The most recent quote that I can find came form a lotro dev. Less than 10% of the game PvPed and did raids, not just at this point, but pretty much all along. 10% isn’t a big number to include both PvP and raids. He was talking about why they’re no longer making the raid instances they used to.

Again, if enough people were playing dungeons in general, Anet would have a dungeon team working full time on dungeons. Can you tell me why you think they wouldn’t?

Because a huge playerbase played SAB, asked them to death about it to rerelease, open old worlds etc. and nothing that even comes close to SAB in mechanics, reward system etc. has come out since what, like 1 year?

That’s why I think they wouldn’t.

A very passionate playerbase certainly but how do you know huge? Where are the stats? Anet knows how many people played it, and they know how many people didn’t. We can only guess at this.

A passionate playerbase isn’t necessarily a large one. In that same lotro dev quote, the dev said that though less than 10% of people ever raided, more than 50% of forum posts were made by raiders.

Kind of makes you think, no?

It really amazes me that former DJ turned community manager (Not Dev) Rick Heaton`s <10% statement gets posted on other forums.

Heres why:

After the ensuing kitten storm, Mr Heaton was sacked retired from his position at Turbine.

LOTROs producer has since posted:

“the 10% thing. Just drop that. I just don’t look at a game that way. I will consider anything if it is good for the game, and good for the players. There are realities like resources and time and money that do come into play. "

I`m sure Mr Heaton regrets his statement that created a nasty divide within the lotro community.

Kind of makes you think, no?

It makes me think “Never admit the truth to your playerbase”. Better to appear incompetent while feeding them pretty lies “We are exploring new ways to create end game content”, than to admit the truth "There is a very small but very vocal minority playing this content.

Beldin.5498:

And there are those that want that others don’t get shinies .. and that are those i have
a problem with.

Say ANet brings out 6 new armor sets per year .. but 4 of them are only for the 1%
that can solo Arah naked with a white level 5 weapon .. would that be good for
the game ?

And there are those that want that others don’t get shinies because they refuse to put the effort into getting these shinies themselves.

I’ll ask you too. Can you please give me your items?
I want to just sit in Queensdale and watch the sky and I think it’s unfair that you can get items from doing stuff while I don’t get anything.

Harper.4173:

Also you definition as " repetitive content" is too broad – by your logic even WvW is a form of “grind” since you do the same things over and over again and nothing really changes.

It depend if you enjoy it or not.

Many people do WvW just for the fun.

But there are also many that do it for the grind, in particularly a huge percentage of people that do EOTM, they are really in it for the exp, money, karma.

Swing your swords 1000 times just to get to the fun part etc.

ipan.4356:

All it means is that they didn’t design dungeons correctly to begin with.

If the content was fun and engaging, people would be doing it.

I will disagree that the dungeon design itself is poor. Many dungeons are well designed. The problem is the core combat mechanics for running dungeons.

Making dungeons to be fun and engaging would require a drastic overhaul of the core combat mechanics. There are a few fundamental problems. The biggest one being that everyone essentially does the same thing(DPS, with modest support abilities). Another is that dungeons are designed so that pretty much any combination of classes and traits can succeed, so what variance there is between classes further limits your design range.

Sure, you can mitigate this by making fun gimmicks for each fight, but thats just papering over the giant cracks in the system.

sirian.4981:

ipan.4356:

All it means is that they didn’t design dungeons correctly to begin with.

If the content was fun and engaging, people would be doing it.

I will disagree that the dungeon design itself is poor. Many dungeons are well designed. The problem is the core combat mechanics for running dungeons.

Making dungeons to be fun and engaging would require a drastic overhaul of the core combat mechanics. There are a few fundamental problems. The biggest one being that everyone essentially does the same thing(DPS, with modest support abilities). Another is that dungeons are designed so that pretty much any combination of classes and traits can succeed, so what variance there is between classes further limits your design range.

Sure, you can mitigate this by making fun gimmicks for each fight, but thats just papering over the giant cracks in the system.

Rather, they massively underestimated the players desire to optimize, and their desire to be jerks about it. If you play the dungeons with mixed groups covering multiple styes, they’re engaging fights that require some reaction. that’s not as efficient as realilzing that you can burn down almost everything in those dungeons with pure dps though, so we get all these issues.

If anything Anet blew it by underestimating players desire to maximixe rewards at the cost of evverything else.

This kind of brings us full circle though, with the complaints mainly boiling down to the rewards not being good enough.

sirian.4981:

ipan.4356:

All it means is that they didn’t design dungeons correctly to begin with.

If the content was fun and engaging, people would be doing it.

I will disagree that the dungeon design itself is poor. Many dungeons are well designed. The problem is the core combat mechanics for running dungeons.

Making dungeons to be fun and engaging would require a drastic overhaul of the core combat mechanics. There are a few fundamental problems. The biggest one being that everyone essentially does the same thing(DPS, with modest support abilities). Another is that dungeons are designed so that pretty much any combination of classes and traits can succeed, so what variance there is between classes further limits your design range.

Sure, you can mitigate this by making fun gimmicks for each fight, but thats just papering over the giant cracks in the system.

well, the combat design team should have work with the dungeon team, pvp team in the first place. So it is not entirely wrong to say the dungeon isn’t designed correctly.

But I do get your point, I think the problem is with combat myself. I find GW2 combat is interesting if you treat it like a single player games. But it just isn’t as interesting in a group scenario for both pve or pvp.

sirian.4981:

It makes me think “Never admit the truth to your playerbase”. Better to appear incompetent while feeding them pretty lies “We are exploring new ways to create end game content”, than to admit the truth "There is a very small but very vocal minority playing this content.

See, that’s what I’m saying. We’re so used to developers outright lying that truth is especially painful.

sirian.4981:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Morsus.5106:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Morsus.5106:

tigirius.9014:

you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere.

I love the new Tequatl encounter

Tequatl is the only real dragon at the moment.

As detrimental as it would be to the playerbase, I wish every dragon was that hard without prior planning.

That’s selfish though. not everyone has 45 minutes to devote to extensive boss planning “for glory” or “valiance” or some other knight kitten.

Casuals have all the other world bosses (‘cept for Wurm) so I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for one or two more Tequatl like encounters. Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer in particular would be awesome.

And again with assuming casuals want easy content, ugh.

Hello, Casual here. I like Teq. I like Wurm. I don’t think any true world boss should be brainless stand and spam 1. They all need some adjustments. They don’t all need to be super kitten hard, some varying level of coordination and challenge would add some spice imo.

You probably aren’t casual if you can consistently log on 30 minutes before the event timer just to get into the right instance to run Wrum.

Casuals would say “I only have an hour or two to play, I am not spending half of that sitting around waiting for the boss to appear”.

That’s a different kind of casual. Me, I’m a casual. I’ve got plenty of time to get to teq and wurm with thirty minutes left on the timer and I usually have hours of free time.

I don’t have the desire to put forth the time and effort to learn and keep up with meta builds and the rotations needed to play them effectively.

Don’t assume that all casual players are that way due to lack of time. Some of us just don’t have the desire to be hardcore.

Harper.4173:

Astralporing.1957:

SkiTz.4590:

Who on earth wastes time doing challenging content that has abysmal rewards?

Theoretically, people claiming to be interested in challenging content should. If they were really interested in the challenge, that is.

Harper.4173:

End-game doesn’t just mean mastering hard content – it means mastering hard content for a reason – that reason being rewards for most players.

If rewards weren’t the reason people wouldn’t complain about the lack of hard content since you can make any content hard by imposing your own restrictions such as going naked, with no traits,etc.

The whole point of end-game is playing hard, improving, and being rewarded for it. Feeling that you’ve earned it.

Then we’re back at it separating community into haves small minority and have-nots majority. If this is the kind of endgame we’re talking about, then no, i’d rather not have any more of it in this game.

I’m sorry to say but we already have that.

Legendary weapons.
Very expensive skins.

We already have this situation in the game.
So you propose that everyone should have easy access to everything? What’s’ the point then?
What do you work towards ? What do you strive for?!

If everyone has everything they want and/or can get everything they want easy what’s the point?

Also the " have-nots majority" of today can be the " have majority of tomorrow" – at launch very few players had exotic gear – but right now people are rolling in it.

Same with ascended – most people don’t have it – but still it’s in the game. So why is it they can do this with gear and not skins?

I’m talking about a purely cosmetic reward so the " have nots" won’t be 1 bit less effective than those who do have the rewards.

You want a fair and square playing field ? You got it.

You want to be the shiniest most hardcore looking player?Work for it.

Those things are hard to get but even the worst player in the game can eventually get a legendary(or get a lucky precursor drop). Skilled players complete it faster, but thats it.

Haishao.6851:

sirian.4981:

The issue here is that “hard” content gets solved by the good players, then they spend months farming that hard content while casuals either can’t or simply don’t want to do it. Which goes back to the upper and lower class problem.

I just want to sit in Queensdale and look at the sky and I think it’s unfair that you get items from killing stuff while I don’t. Please give me your items.

You can definitely farm items doign that. Its just slwo
Find an are with an event that spawns regularly and press 1 every so often. You can definitely farm items doing that.

Seera.5916:

sirian.4981:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Morsus.5106:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Morsus.5106:

tigirius.9014:

you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere.

I love the new Tequatl encounter

Tequatl is the only real dragon at the moment.

As detrimental as it would be to the playerbase, I wish every dragon was that hard without prior planning.

That’s selfish though. not everyone has 45 minutes to devote to extensive boss planning “for glory” or “valiance” or some other knight kitten.

Casuals have all the other world bosses (‘cept for Wurm) so I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for one or two more Tequatl like encounters. Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer in particular would be awesome.

And again with assuming casuals want easy content, ugh.

Hello, Casual here. I like Teq. I like Wurm. I don’t think any true world boss should be brainless stand and spam 1. They all need some adjustments. They don’t all need to be super kitten hard, some varying level of coordination and challenge would add some spice imo.

You probably aren’t casual if you can consistently log on 30 minutes before the event timer just to get into the right instance to run Wrum.

Casuals would say “I only have an hour or two to play, I am not spending half of that sitting around waiting for the boss to appear”.

That’s a different kind of casual. Me, I’m a casual. I’ve got plenty of time to get to teq and wurm with thirty minutes left on the timer and I usually have hours of free time.

I don’t have the desire to put forth the time and effort to learn and keep up with meta builds and the rotations needed to play them effectively.

Don’t assume that all casual players are that way due to lack of time. Some of us just don’t have the desire to be hardcore.

I don’t want to get too semantic but tracking timers and sitting around in zones for a boss to spawn isn’t any more casual than reading meta builds.

The defining aspect of a casual is that they aren’t planning their playtime. A casual mindset would be “Nothing good on TV tonight, guess I will hop onto GW2 for an hour or two before dinner”. That person isn’t going to track boss timers and sit around in zone for 30 minutes just to fight 1 boss.

sirian.4981:

Seera.5916:

sirian.4981:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Morsus.5106:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Morsus.5106:

tigirius.9014:

you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere.

I love the new Tequatl encounter

Tequatl is the only real dragon at the moment.

As detrimental as it would be to the playerbase, I wish every dragon was that hard without prior planning.

That’s selfish though. not everyone has 45 minutes to devote to extensive boss planning “for glory” or “valiance” or some other knight kitten.

Casuals have all the other world bosses (‘cept for Wurm) so I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for one or two more Tequatl like encounters. Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer in particular would be awesome.

And again with assuming casuals want easy content, ugh.

Hello, Casual here. I like Teq. I like Wurm. I don’t think any true world boss should be brainless stand and spam 1. They all need some adjustments. They don’t all need to be super kitten hard, some varying level of coordination and challenge would add some spice imo.

You probably aren’t casual if you can consistently log on 30 minutes before the event timer just to get into the right instance to run Wrum.

Casuals would say “I only have an hour or two to play, I am not spending half of that sitting around waiting for the boss to appear”.

That’s a different kind of casual. Me, I’m a casual. I’ve got plenty of time to get to teq and wurm with thirty minutes left on the timer and I usually have hours of free time.

I don’t have the desire to put forth the time and effort to learn and keep up with meta builds and the rotations needed to play them effectively.

Don’t assume that all casual players are that way due to lack of time. Some of us just don’t have the desire to be hardcore.

I don’t want to get too semantic but tracking timers and sitting around in zones for a boss to spawn isn’t any more casual than reading meta builds.

The defining aspect of a casual is that they aren’t planning their playtime. A casual mindset would be “Nothing good on TV tonight, guess I will hop onto GW2 for an hour or two before dinner”. That person isn’t going to track boss timers and sit around in zone for 30 minutes just to fight 1 boss.

And especially not if that boss doesn’t give anything good. Why track timers etc. etc. If you can just speedrun AC and get better loot? And you only need to spam 1 for that!