Guild Wars 2

sirian.4981:

Anmida.4058:

cheshirefox.7026:

summary – i’m still waiting for a non-lackluster year from arena net

I believe that will happen when we get the developers hearing, or well reading, aid so the community says “We kinda want more dungeons and activities to do. Fixing your storytelling would be fine, too.” and they don’t go “WHAT WAS THAT? DID YOU MEAN COMPLETELY DESTROY THE TRAIT SYSTEM?!”

It feels like GW2 has an extremely small budget/development team and tries to focus on cheap but “big” changes. Unfortunately it seems the small dev team isn’t very good so we get nonsense like trait changes instead of solid good changes.

Think of it, the trait changes the recent NPE both are very simple from development perspective. They mostly locked content or removed it and what little they did add was super simplistic(entertain cows!). I wish we had a better idea of Arenanets financials to be sure.

small budget / team? what makes you say that?

Anet has 350+ employees working on Gw2… thats not small, thats pretty big for an MMO. Small budget? At launch they had about 300 employees and expanded their team by 50 more employees… nothing something you do without a good budget i would imagine.

Yes one of the things they did is change an event were you feed cows to you entertaining cows. Do you honestly feel thats the best content they issued in the past 2 years? Don’t you feel you’re being dishonest by trying to portray the best Anet can do is the worst thing they did?

MFoy.3284:

What’s bothering me most is Diablo got an expansion, ESO got an expansion, Aion got an expansion, Rift got an expansion, EverQuest got an expansion, ArcheAge is getting an expansion, Wildstar is getting an expansion etc. What do we get? a couple of weeks in a new zone the size of a coat closet and a Feature Patch that breaks all kinda game play. To top it off about 80% were “features” no one asked for. Like all the nerfs. Again. As usual.

Moreover, lately we get a steady drop off of new items in the Gem Store. Add to all this ArenaNet only seems to pay lip service to providing players with some kinda roadmap for the future of the game. It kinda makes you feel as if all they’ve got up their sleeve is their arm. Pretty much all the talk we get from them is a form of “Smiling and Nodding”. You should go over to http://massively.joystiq.com/ to see Guild Wars 2 in perspective to other games and the companies supporting them.

Now, before you jump all over me with the banal “..but but Living Story” and “Why do you still play?” replies let me point out: that doesn’t answer the question.

Where are we and where are we headed?

we dont know if we’re getting an expansion or not, they’re not saying anything either way.

also some corrections… Diablo is not really an MMO and their only revenue stream is expansions.

Also as far as I know and I am pretty sure about it but please feel free to correct me if I am wrong most of the games you mentioned, mainly ESO, Wildstar and Archeage have so far not announced any expansions at all.

@Scipio

Though it’s not conclusive the number of hours played in Guild Wars 2 and the number of unique logs in seems to have stabilized. It’s relatively stable on Raptr. It’s been at 17 for a long long time, until this month when it went up to 12, and that’s because of the sale. More hours played because more new people playing. But before the sale, it was number 17 all the way back when Season 1 was still going on and it remained there during the lull between the seasons and even to this day. Number 17 out of 20 and the third most popular MMO on Raptr.

Overwolf numbers seem to support that the game is going strong with unique log ins, but I tend to discount this as unique log ins mean a lot less than hours played, if people are just logging in to unlock the story. Still, it’s number 7 on Overwolf. But then comes Xfire where it’s #11, the second most popular MMO next to WoW.

And then we have the evidence of the quarterly report. In a quarter that saw the launch of both ESO and Wildstar, sales were about 10 percent down. This is a two year old game. It’s never going to have the numbers it had at launch. It’s not reasonable to expect it. But it still has more hours played than all MMOs on two different sites…only being beaten by WoW and on one of the sites, Final Fantasy..and it’s neck and neck with Final Fantasy.

If this game is dying, then all MMOs are dying except perhaps WoW. And if that were the case, I don’t think people would be investing millions to make more MMOs. More likely every MMO needs to find its niche and it sheds people who aren’t part of that niche. Guild Wars 2 is finding its niche and it’s likely not you or the kind of people you play with.

My guild has grown and it was here at launch. It has roughly the same number of people for the last year. People are in and out all the time. Some leave, some get replaced…and we don’t actively recruit either.

So yeah, I think the game is fine. It’s not mainstream…but of all MMOs it seems like only WoW is. Doesn’t mean it’s dying. I mean hell making many millions of dollars a quarter doesn’t show death to me.

Very minor nitpick, but it would be 3rd on xfire. World of tanks as far as I know has always been considered an mmo. Not sure I would label it as one, but everyone else seems to. Its even won well known awards as being best mmo etc.

Your point still stands. As far as mmos go, its popular and far from dead.

Galen Grey.4709:

MFoy.3284:

What’s bothering me most is Diablo got an expansion, ESO got an expansion, Aion got an expansion, Rift got an expansion, EverQuest got an expansion, ArcheAge is getting an expansion, Wildstar is getting an expansion etc. What do we get? a couple of weeks in a new zone the size of a coat closet and a Feature Patch that breaks all kinda game play. To top it off about 80% were “features” no one asked for. Like all the nerfs. Again. As usual.

Moreover, lately we get a steady drop off of new items in the Gem Store. Add to all this ArenaNet only seems to pay lip service to providing players with some kinda roadmap for the future of the game. It kinda makes you feel as if all they’ve got up their sleeve is their arm. Pretty much all the talk we get from them is a form of “Smiling and Nodding”. You should go over to http://massively.joystiq.com/ to see Guild Wars 2 in perspective to other games and the companies supporting them.

Now, before you jump all over me with the banal “..but but Living Story” and “Why do you still play?” replies let me point out: that doesn’t answer the question.

Where are we and where are we headed?

we dont know if we’re getting an expansion or not, they’re not saying anything either way.

also some corrections… Diablo is not really an MMO and their only revenue stream is expansions.

Also as far as I know and I am pretty sure about it but please feel free to correct me if I am wrong most of the games you mentioned, mainly ESO, Wildstar and Archeage have so far not announced any expansions at all.

Its not so much an expansion as it is expansion like content. Anet has promised things from the LS, many things that have not been delivered? What would an LS with expansion like content look like?

First, an ideal expansion would have -

New zones(say 4), New content for the places like fractals/dungeon/guildmissions, a New Class or Race(preferrably Class imo), New world bosses would be interesting, New skills(utilities for the first expansion), A new weapon combination for each class(thieves get axe, ele gets shortbow, ranger gets rifle, etc).

This would be the content side of things. The featues(big features like april feature pack but still bigger features could be done like guidl halls) are for the feature pack which would rotate with the living story.

Ideally, the living story lasts 12 releases(6 months of releases) over the period of 1 year. They would have 1 break that wouldn’t last 3 months long. This means we’d have 6 releases on each side of the break, so all the expansion content I mentioned would span that time period.

As for the break, I hate breaks yet if you want a feature/content cycle, there needs to be one. Also I think holidays/wvw seasons are not and will never be a valid excuse. Like I said, if thats true, then its going to really screw up your content schedule. Anyway, as for the break, I think 2 months is a very reasonable period of time if the content cycles each time had a few more releases and actually provided more content.

The problem with this break is that the break is too long for the amount of content we got. Tbh we didn’t get that much content the first time around. We’ve seen bits of expansions, but not a living story cycle that continuously pumps out prepared expansion like content.

The first release of the second season was the biggest release they had BY FAR. That should be par for every release. Im not saying every release needs a zone but something on par with that amount of effort or around there is ideal.

Fernling.1729:

Very minor nitpick, but it would be 3rd on xfire. World of tanks as far as I know has always been considered an mmo. Not sure I would label it as one, but everyone else seems to. Its even won well known awards as being best mmo etc.

Your point still stands. As far as mmos go, its popular and far from dead.

MMORPGs are quite different from just MMOs. I use the abbreviation because it’s tiring to type MMORPG> World of Tanks is an MMO but it’s a completely different genre of game than WoW or Guild Wars 2, and really can’t be listed in the same list.

I know it’ll happen again, but I know I’ll forget the RPG when talking about MMOs. This is part of the problem with playing these games for a long time. It’s easy forget there are new types of MMOs out there.

Edit: I just went to World of Tanks website and they refer to it as an an MMO Action Game.

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

Very minor nitpick, but it would be 3rd on xfire. World of tanks as far as I know has always been considered an mmo. Not sure I would label it as one, but everyone else seems to. Its even won well known awards as being best mmo etc.

Your point still stands. As far as mmos go, its popular and far from dead.

MMORPGs are quite different from just MMOs. I use the abbreviation because it’s tiring to type MMORPG> World of Tanks is an MMO but it’s a completely different genre of game than WoW or Guild Wars 2, and really can’t be listed in the same list.

I know it’ll happen again, but I know I’ll forget the RPG when talking about MMOs. This is part of the problem with playing these games for a long time. It’s easy forget there are new types of MMOs out there.

I completely understand and agree. I didn’t really think of It like that.
Probably why its hard for me to call it an mmo. I typically think of mmorpg being the only type of mmo.
Wot is definitely not an mmorpg.

SkylightMoon.2098:

Galen Grey.4709:

MFoy.3284:

What’s bothering me most is Diablo got an expansion, ESO got an expansion, Aion got an expansion, Rift got an expansion, EverQuest got an expansion, ArcheAge is getting an expansion, Wildstar is getting an expansion etc. What do we get? a couple of weeks in a new zone the size of a coat closet and a Feature Patch that breaks all kinda game play. To top it off about 80% were “features” no one asked for. Like all the nerfs. Again. As usual.

Moreover, lately we get a steady drop off of new items in the Gem Store. Add to all this ArenaNet only seems to pay lip service to providing players with some kinda roadmap for the future of the game. It kinda makes you feel as if all they’ve got up their sleeve is their arm. Pretty much all the talk we get from them is a form of “Smiling and Nodding”. You should go over to http://massively.joystiq.com/ to see Guild Wars 2 in perspective to other games and the companies supporting them.

Now, before you jump all over me with the banal “..but but Living Story” and “Why do you still play?” replies let me point out: that doesn’t answer the question.

Where are we and where are we headed?

we dont know if we’re getting an expansion or not, they’re not saying anything either way.

also some corrections… Diablo is not really an MMO and their only revenue stream is expansions.

Also as far as I know and I am pretty sure about it but please feel free to correct me if I am wrong most of the games you mentioned, mainly ESO, Wildstar and Archeage have so far not announced any expansions at all.

Its not so much an expansion as it is expansion like content. Anet has promised things from the LS, many things that have not been delivered? What would an LS with expansion like content look like?

First, an ideal expansion would have -

New zones(say 4), New content for the places like fractals/dungeon/guildmissions, a New Class or Race(preferrably Class imo), New world bosses would be interesting, New skills(utilities for the first expansion), A new weapon combination for each class(thieves get axe, ele gets shortbow, ranger gets rifle, etc).

This would be the content side of things. The featues(big features like april feature pack but still bigger features could be done like guidl halls) are for the feature pack which would rotate with the living story.

Ideally, the living story lasts 12 releases(6 months of releases) over the period of 1 year. They would have 1 break that wouldn’t last 3 months long. This means we’d have 6 releases on each side of the break, so all the expansion content I mentioned would span that time period.

As for the break, I hate breaks yet if you want a feature/content cycle, there needs to be one. Also I think holidays/wvw seasons are not and will never be a valid excuse. Like I said, if thats true, then its going to really screw up your content schedule. Anyway, as for the break, I think 2 months is a very reasonable period of time if the content cycles each time had a few more releases and actually provided more content.

The problem with this break is that the break is too long for the amount of content we got. Tbh we didn’t get that much content the first time around. We’ve seen bits of expansions, but not a living story cycle that continuously pumps out prepared expansion like content.

The first release of the second season was the biggest release they had BY FAR. That should be par for every release. Im not saying every release needs a zone but something on par with that amount of effort or around there is ideal.

Precisely. The best example here is pretty much any campaing/expansion that was added to GW1.
Each one of them added 2 x more than what the whole 2 years of GW2 added. Not to mention, quality wise, the new content was superior, too.
That’s pretty much what it is all about.

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

Very minor nitpick, but it would be 3rd on xfire. World of tanks as far as I know has always been considered an mmo. Not sure I would label it as one, but everyone else seems to. Its even won well known awards as being best mmo etc.

Your point still stands. As far as mmos go, its popular and far from dead.

MMORPGs are quite different from just MMOs. I use the abbreviation because it’s tiring to type MMORPG> World of Tanks is an MMO but it’s a completely different genre of game than WoW or Guild Wars 2, and really can’t be listed in the same list.

I know it’ll happen again, but I know I’ll forget the RPG when talking about MMOs. This is part of the problem with playing these games for a long time. It’s easy forget there are new types of MMOs out there.

I completely understand and agree. I didn’t really think of It like that.
Probably why its hard for me to call it an mmo. I typically think of mmorpg being the only type of mmo.
Wot is definitely not an mmorpg.

As gaming moves forward, I think we’re not only going to see a lot of new types of MMOs, but we’re going to a lot of MMOs that cross genre boundaries. Star Citizen is set up to be a space flight simulator and an MMO with some RPG stuff in it as well. I’m terribly worried it’ll be pay to win, though.

On topic: I’m really having trouble seeing how anyone can think this game is dying. Not as successful as it might be…maybe. Not as successful as WoW, definitely. Not mainstream? Sure. I would consider this a niche game (for a fairly large niche) Not successful?

I don’t understand how people can come to that conclusion.

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

Very minor nitpick, but it would be 3rd on xfire. World of tanks as far as I know has always been considered an mmo. Not sure I would label it as one, but everyone else seems to. Its even won well known awards as being best mmo etc.

Your point still stands. As far as mmos go, its popular and far from dead.

MMORPGs are quite different from just MMOs. I use the abbreviation because it’s tiring to type MMORPG> World of Tanks is an MMO but it’s a completely different genre of game than WoW or Guild Wars 2, and really can’t be listed in the same list.

I know it’ll happen again, but I know I’ll forget the RPG when talking about MMOs. This is part of the problem with playing these games for a long time. It’s easy forget there are new types of MMOs out there.

I completely understand and agree. I didn’t really think of It like that.
Probably why its hard for me to call it an mmo. I typically think of mmorpg being the only type of mmo.
Wot is definitely not an mmorpg.

As gaming moves forward, I think we’re not only going to see a lot of new types of MMOs, but we’re going to a lot of MMOs that cross genre boundaries. Star Citizen is set up to be a space flight simulator and an MMO with some RPG stuff in it as well. I’m terribly worried it’ll be pay to win, though.

On topic: I’m really having trouble seeing how anyone can think this game is dying. Not as successful as it might be…maybe. Not as successful as WoW, definitely. Not mainstream? Sure. I would consider this a niche game (for a fairly large niche) Not successful?

I don’t understand how people can come to that conclusion.

I know certain areas of this game are dying and have been progressively(wvw/spvp). The recent announcements about no plans for future dungeons alienated more of the community specifically the dungeon runners. Its honestly surprising this game is doing as well as it is, especially as of lately.

I don’t think it will ever have a huge drop in population, but that it will be gradual. At least if guild wars 2 keeps heading in the direction is now. After 2 years you can’t keep saying “no they have something big planned just watch”. You have to be realistic, any player since launch would be. There absolutely no reason to believe anything expansion sized going on in the background.

SkylightMoon.2098:

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

Very minor nitpick, but it would be 3rd on xfire. World of tanks as far as I know has always been considered an mmo. Not sure I would label it as one, but everyone else seems to. Its even won well known awards as being best mmo etc.

Your point still stands. As far as mmos go, its popular and far from dead.

MMORPGs are quite different from just MMOs. I use the abbreviation because it’s tiring to type MMORPG> World of Tanks is an MMO but it’s a completely different genre of game than WoW or Guild Wars 2, and really can’t be listed in the same list.

I know it’ll happen again, but I know I’ll forget the RPG when talking about MMOs. This is part of the problem with playing these games for a long time. It’s easy forget there are new types of MMOs out there.

I completely understand and agree. I didn’t really think of It like that.
Probably why its hard for me to call it an mmo. I typically think of mmorpg being the only type of mmo.
Wot is definitely not an mmorpg.

As gaming moves forward, I think we’re not only going to see a lot of new types of MMOs, but we’re going to a lot of MMOs that cross genre boundaries. Star Citizen is set up to be a space flight simulator and an MMO with some RPG stuff in it as well. I’m terribly worried it’ll be pay to win, though.

On topic: I’m really having trouble seeing how anyone can think this game is dying. Not as successful as it might be…maybe. Not as successful as WoW, definitely. Not mainstream? Sure. I would consider this a niche game (for a fairly large niche) Not successful?

I don’t understand how people can come to that conclusion.

I know certain areas of this game are dying and have been progressively(wvw/spvp). The recent announcements about no plans for future dungeons alienated more of the community specifically the dungeon runners. Its honestly surprising this game is doing as well as it is, especially as of lately.

I don’t think it will ever have a huge drop in population, but that it will be gradual. At least if guild wars 2 keeps heading in the direction is now. After 2 years you can’t keep saying “no they have something big planned just watch”. You have to be realistic, any player since launch would be. There absolutely no reason to believe anything expansion sized going on in the background.

I’m operating under different assumptions than you though. First of all. WvW and SPvP together represent a small percentage of the playerbase than most people think (though WvW is clearly the more popular of the two). SPvP has basically stabilized and I don’t think it’s going to grow much. WvW is something that ESO was supposed to wreck and didn’t. There aren’t, at this time, many games that offer that kind of experience and enough people like that experience to keep going.

PvE on the other hand, open world PvE, collection, achievement hunting is likely to grow and I think there are so so many people out there who would be happy with this. You can joke about them and call them Facebook gamers, but entire generations of gamers grew up now on Facebook and they’re looking for that traditional game. It really is a virtually untapped market. And you know, you get them in, you teach them and some of them graduate and move on to other things, including WvW.

WvW may become more casual over time and not the hardcore experience it is. And that would be okay too. It would just be another part of the PvE game. Edge of the Mists proved that’s possible.

@ vayne

They(especially WvW) used to be much bigger but have gradually gotten smaller over time. Thats why they make up a smaller populus now. Archeage is actually killing WvW right now, I can say that because I play WvW actively and actually see a lot of people leaving. I don’t know if the players will come back but its the first time ive seen an exodus this large.

Eotm is a pretty enormous fail and exactly what its used for in game is quite ambiguous nowadays. Its main purpose is a map for people to stay in while queued for WvW but the map is so kittenous now that no serious WvW player would go there to play in the meantime while they wait. Its a very poor representation of WvW.

It became more of a place to karma train. Basically run around in circles for 8 hours capping keeps and avoiding the enemies. People did it to level, not because it was fun. not only is that incredibly boring, but its completely counter to what WvW is about. They could easily fix this by nerfing the exp and rewards you get in EOTM, yet that could give the zone almost no purpose whatsoever. Who knows.

Theres nothing wrong with putting an emphasis on PVE in the game, but Anets way about developing PVE content hasn’t always been good. Temporary content was a fail. They spent a year on that, the majority didn’t like it. Permanent content this year was better but has come at an incredibly slow pace(look at the first half of season 2 and how long of a break we have). Collections are fine. Its Anets way of getting people to go back and play the game theyve already explored 10 times within the last 2 years.

SkylightMoon.2098:

@ vayne

They(especially WvW) used to be much bigger but have gradually gotten smaller over time. Thats why they make up a smaller populus now. Archeage is actually killing WvW right now, I can say that because I play WvW actively and actually see a lot of people leaving. I don’t know if the players will come back but its the first time ive seen an exodus this large.

Eotm is a pretty enormous fail and exactly what its used for in game is quite ambiguous nowadays. Its main purpose is a map for people to stay in while queued for WvW but the map is so kittenous now that no serious WvW player would go there to play in the meantime while they wait. Its a very poor representation of WvW.

It became more of a place to karma train. Basically run around in circles for 8 hours capping keeps and avoiding the enemies. People did it to level, not because it was fun. not only is that incredibly boring, but its completely counter to what WvW is about. They could easily fix this by nerfing the exp and rewards you get in EOTM, yet that could give the zone almost no purpose whatsoever. Who knows.

Theres nothing wrong with putting an emphasis on PVE in the game, but Anets way about developing PVE content hasn’t always been good. Temporary content was a fail. They spent a year on that, the majority didn’t like it. Permanent content this year was better but has come at an incredibly slow pace(look at the first half of season 2 and how long of a break we have). Collections are fine. Its Anets way of getting people to go back and play the game theyve already explored 10 times within the last 2 years.

I strongly suspect that not being able to cast while moving will hamper a lot of people’s enjoyment of Archeage. The limits of the game for free players means most PvPers will end up having to subscribe.

It will definitely appeal to a certain type of player. But I suspect that a lot of people will fine it disappointed in the months ahead. I personally think it will end up pay to win and any serious PvPer will leave at that point.

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

@Vayne
Although the most anticipated and promising MMOs out there are most likely “Bless” and “Black Desert Online”, I decided to install AA and try it out.

Tbh, AA reminds of GW1 and Lineage 2 a lot, which is good and definitely > GW2 in terms of complexity and diversity of builds and endgame, as well as it has open PvP ( which is neutral, i.e. a pro to some and a con to others ). With regards to game mechanics, it also reminds me of the aforementioned games, but in this respect it’s a drawback – indeed, movement as well as some fighting mechanics feel outdated. But with regards to some spells ( not all, as you seem to have pointed out ), they need standing still when casting. But, tbh, with the amount of skills that you can have ( much more than in GW2 ), I don’t think that this particular aspect of game will be a hugh drawback, if any. After all, you have more skills, whose effects look better visually overall, plus the skills that you mention, i.e. standing still when casting, are above all instant-kill skills, some of which cast for approx. 5s! I don’t think, realistacilly speaking, you’d be moving like feather ( GW2 ) when casting an instant-kill skill, right? You can have both mobility and ultra-powered skill. You’ve got to have a negative to such a powerful skill, i.e. standing still when casting. Sounds totally logical.
I played a ranger-typed class ( wish this class was that epic in GW2 :/ ) and it felt more dynamic than ranger in GW2. But it’s just my personal opinion.

Nevertheless, I don’t think AA is what it was supposed to be, especially with its many limitations for f2p users ( most notably, regeneration of labour pts., limited crafting, housing and so on ).

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

You are right. GW2 is a successful MMO, but it’s hardly as successful as some people on these forums think it is.

SkylightMoon.2098:

Its not so much an expansion as it is expansion like content. Anet has promised things from the LS, many things that have not been delivered? What would an LS with expansion like content look like?

First, an ideal expansion would have -

New zones(say 4), New content for the places like fractals/dungeon/guildmissions, a New Class or Race(preferrably Class imo), New world bosses would be interesting, New skills(utilities for the first expansion), A new weapon combination for each class(thieves get axe, ele gets shortbow, ranger gets rifle, etc).

This would be the content side of things. The featues(big features like april feature pack but still bigger features could be done like guidl halls) are for the feature pack which would rotate with the living story.

Ideally, the living story lasts 12 releases(6 months of releases) over the period of 1 year. They would have 1 break that wouldn’t last 3 months long. This means we’d have 6 releases on each side of the break, so all the expansion content I mentioned would span that time period.

As for the break, I hate breaks yet if you want a feature/content cycle, there needs to be one. Also I think holidays/wvw seasons are not and will never be a valid excuse. Like I said, if thats true, then its going to really screw up your content schedule. Anyway, as for the break, I think 2 months is a very reasonable period of time if the content cycles each time had a few more releases and actually provided more content.

The problem with this break is that the break is too long for the amount of content we got. Tbh we didn’t get that much content the first time around. We’ve seen bits of expansions, but not a living story cycle that continuously pumps out prepared expansion like content.

The first release of the second season was the biggest release they had BY FAR. That should be par for every release. Im not saying every release needs a zone but something on par with that amount of effort or around there is ideal.

I agree, additions to fractals, dungeons / guild missions would be quite a good idea and am surprised they didnt touch them in a while. Of course its entirely possible that the reason for that is actually that they’re working on an expansion cause obviously if thats the case they’ll need content for it and of course that would mean that prime expansion content candidates like fractals / dungeons as well as guild missions is the type of content you’ll expect to see in an expansion and thus their hands would be kinda tied with releasing them LS style. but thats entirely conjecture on my part of course.

regarding the living story I have to disagree though. I am sure you’ll agree every living story release we had in season 2 was about 4-5 times larger. It used to take me about 30 mins to complete the story portion of a release in season 1. Season 2 takes me between 2-3 hours. I mean even visually in season 1 every release had 1 story instance, in season 2 we’re getting 4 or even 5 in some cases. Now more content is awesome no doubt but being fair 4x as much content takes more time to complete then 4x less content. I guess they did this to address the pacing concern people had. if they had followed the same process as they did in season 1, the first 1/2 of the living story could have been stretch for at least 8 months. Both have their merits but I do think this condensed format is more engaging as you always feel there is so much going on.

which brings us back to breaks… They condensed what used to be 8 months of living story (and that’s not considering the new zone) into 2 months + 2 months of Living story break before that. Compared to season 1 we got 8 months worth of content in 1/2 the development time so if anything to be fair the break was too short rather then too long.

Corpus Christi.2057:

Precisely. The best example here is pretty much any campaing/expansion that was added to GW1.
Each one of them added 2 x more than what the whole 2 years of GW2 added. Not to mention, quality wise, the new content was superior, too.
That’s pretty much what it is all about.

how do you measure something like that?
Gw1 is just too different from Gw2.

I mean lets consider say a dungeon from eye of the north, say Bloodstone Caves (kinda liked that one and ran it a gazillion times, only reason why I picked it). You measure that as being 1:1 with say TA or even with say a single fractal? You may argue that sure why not 1 dungeon for 1 dungeon but then lets be realistic
Does it take the same amount of time to make this:

http://atyrianodyssey.com/gw/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/bloodstone-caves_L2monolith.jpg

as it takes to make this

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/4/47/Underground_Facility_Fractal.jpg

Gw2 has way more props, way higher poly count. more texture layers etc..

which brings us back to my original statement how do you measure the two ?

Content is nice and all that but it needs to be created. With more complexity and more detail it obviously takes a lot more time to create new content in gw2 then it did in gw1.

Besides we dont know all the content thats being developed in gw2 right now either, for all we know they maybe even be working on an expansion we dont yet know about. Most of the content (LS) released by now was developed by just 20 or so people. there are another 330 of them working at Anet! and I dont think they’re being paid to just play the game and do nothing else.

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

FFXIV is “neck to neck” with GW2 only on raptr, on xfire its no.20 with roughly 1/3 of GW2 numbers. Oh and FFXIV had crapton on discounts on Steam, you could buy it for 10$ at relaunch on Steam.
———————————-
And if you follow THAT line of thought, WoW only has 1 million subs (6,13% vs. 2,86%)

Why dont people THINK it trhough beore they post. Why dont you compare WS now against GW2?

Corpus Christi.2057:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

You are right. GW2 is a successful MMO, but it’s hardly as successful as some people on these forums think it is.

So WoW is only successful MMO….ever?

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

FFXIV is “neck to neck” with GW2 only on raptr, on xfire its no.20 with roughly 1/3 of GW2 numbers. Oh and FFXIV had crapton on discounts on Steam, you could buy it for 10$ at relaunch on Steam.
———————————-
And if you follow THAT line of thought, WoW only has 1 million subs (6,13% vs. 2,86%)

Why dont people THINK it trhough beore they post. Why dont you compare WS now against GW2?

My, my, someone’s so antsy today. Well, that’s ok. I thought you didn’t believe in these stats anyway.
Also, FF14 is on PS3/PS4.

WoW doesn’t have 1 million subs. As the Raptr blog says “The new MMO [WildStar] impacted the playtime of The Elder Scrolls Online, WoW, Dark Souls II, and Final Fantasy XIV Online, and was definitely a factor that led to those games slipping in the ranks.”
WildStar did target the WoW audience so it made sense it took some hours away from them.

Of course there’s no point in comparing GW2 to WildStar now. WS tried to capture a small target base, hardcore WoW players, and after the hype died down, players dropped out as you expect after hype dies down. With only 500k players, it’s expected to drop off the chart when players drop out.

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

FFXIV is “neck to neck” with GW2 only on raptr, on xfire its no.20 with roughly 1/3 of GW2 numbers. Oh and FFXIV had crapton on discounts on Steam, you could buy it for 10$ at relaunch on Steam.
———————————-
And if you follow THAT line of thought, WoW only has 1 million subs (6,13% vs. 2,86%)

Why dont people THINK it trhough beore they post. Why dont you compare WS now against GW2?

My, my, someone’s so antsy today. Well, that’s ok. I thought you didn’t believe in these stats anyway.
Also, FF14 is on PS3/PS4.

WoW doesn’t have 1 million subs. As the Raptr blog says “The new MMO [WildStar] impacted the playtime of The Elder Scrolls Online, WoW, Dark Souls II, and Final Fantasy XIV Online, and was definitely a factor that led to those games slipping in the ranks.”
WildStar did target the WoW audience so it made sense it took some hours away from them.

Of course there’s no point in comparing GW2 to WildStar now. WS tried to capture a small target base, hardcore WoW players, and after the hype died down, players dropped out as you expect after hype dies down. With only 500k players, it’s expected to drop off the chart when players drop out.

Ye, but vast majority of players are on PC. You see, we can play this game all day long

Of course WoW doesnt have 1 million players, its dumb to compare WS launch month to WoW same as its dumb to compare WS launch month to GW2. And you did, for whatever purpose you had at the time.

Why is there no point to compare, its comapring 2 MMOs, 1 launched 2 years ago and one 3 months ago (which, as far as comaprsions go, YOU compared, so its only fair you comapre those NOW also, to get clearer picture) But as you say, it doesnt really suit you so theres no point comapring….to YOU ;D

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

FFXIV is “neck to neck” with GW2 only on raptr, on xfire its no.20 with roughly 1/3 of GW2 numbers. Oh and FFXIV had crapton on discounts on Steam, you could buy it for 10$ at relaunch on Steam.
———————————-
And if you follow THAT line of thought, WoW only has 1 million subs (6,13% vs. 2,86%)

Why dont people THINK it trhough beore they post. Why dont you compare WS now against GW2?

My, my, someone’s so antsy today. Well, that’s ok. I thought you didn’t believe in these stats anyway.
Also, FF14 is on PS3/PS4.

WoW doesn’t have 1 million subs. As the Raptr blog says “The new MMO [WildStar] impacted the playtime of The Elder Scrolls Online, WoW, Dark Souls II, and Final Fantasy XIV Online, and was definitely a factor that led to those games slipping in the ranks.”
WildStar did target the WoW audience so it made sense it took some hours away from them.

Of course there’s no point in comparing GW2 to WildStar now. WS tried to capture a small target base, hardcore WoW players, and after the hype died down, players dropped out as you expect after hype dies down. With only 500k players, it’s expected to drop off the chart when players drop out.

Ye, but vast majority of players are on PC. You see, we can play this game all day long

Of course WoW doesnt have 1 million players, its dumb to compare WS launch month to WoW same as its dumb to compare WS launch month to GW2. And you did, for whatever purpose you had at the time.

Why is there no point to compare, its comapring 2 MMOs, 1 launched 2 years ago and one 3 months ago (which, as far as comaprsions go, YOU compared, so its only fair you comapre those NOW also, to get clearer picture) But as you say, it doesnt really suit you so theres no point comapring….to YOU ;D

Not sure what you’re trying to get at with WildStar now compared to GW2, that’s why I said no point. WildStar died down in popularity after the hype. And?

SkylightMoon.2098:

Archeage is actually killing WvW right now, I can say that because I play WvW actively and actually see a lot of people leaving. I don’t know if the players will come back but its the first time ive seen an exodus this large.

Somme of the comments here say however that it is more or less what i expected :
The Daily Grind: What do you think of ArcheAge’s PvP? | Massively

You want to know what kind of people you are gonna “meet” and “pvp”?

[I]
I dont want to craft, mine, farm, buy a house or whatever lame stuff. I just want to attack people, loot the weapons/money from bodies and move on. I dont even wanna duel or anything maybe just hide somewhere where people are trying to hand in quests then kill them easy peasy. Is it possible to level or progress in the game this way? Is it easier if I join a group specifically for this purpose? Later on I want to be able to be really strong so that people that try to get revenge on me cant even do it if they bring several of their friends to fight me. Thanks in advance. [/I]

Taken from a well-known website forum post. No, it is not the minority. No, poster is not a child. You will play with people like him.

To be honest, i won’t be touching the game even with a 10-feet pole. Your experience may differ

I think it blows. It has so many stupid design decisions that I dont even know where to start.

1. Other then stealing trade packs, PvP is absolutely meaningless. People gank each other just for the heck of it.

2. Locking PvP in zones during time of “piece” is just kittened. Minute before there is bloodbath everywhere. Minute later enemies run around and cant attack.

3. Respawn system near statues that grant immunity is the most stupid thing Ive ever seen in MMO. Victimes cant leave statue since they are camped. Campers cant kill them since victims immune. So both just stare at each other.

4. Balance is non existant in this game. People being one shoted all around. Melee classes useless in zergs. Some classes are garbage in PvP. And so on.

5. 90% of PvP in this game is zergs where 0 skill involved.

6. Overal skill cap of most classes is pretty low. Most popular builds (like archers) are basically one button spammers.

But yeah .. all the Open-World gankers will leave GW2 .. oh wait ..

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

FFXIV is “neck to neck” with GW2 only on raptr, on xfire its no.20 with roughly 1/3 of GW2 numbers. Oh and FFXIV had crapton on discounts on Steam, you could buy it for 10$ at relaunch on Steam.
———————————-
And if you follow THAT line of thought, WoW only has 1 million subs (6,13% vs. 2,86%)

Why dont people THINK it trhough beore they post. Why dont you compare WS now against GW2?

My, my, someone’s so antsy today. Well, that’s ok. I thought you didn’t believe in these stats anyway.
Also, FF14 is on PS3/PS4.

WoW doesn’t have 1 million subs. As the Raptr blog says “The new MMO [WildStar] impacted the playtime of The Elder Scrolls Online, WoW, Dark Souls II, and Final Fantasy XIV Online, and was definitely a factor that led to those games slipping in the ranks.”
WildStar did target the WoW audience so it made sense it took some hours away from them.

Of course there’s no point in comparing GW2 to WildStar now. WS tried to capture a small target base, hardcore WoW players, and after the hype died down, players dropped out as you expect after hype dies down. With only 500k players, it’s expected to drop off the chart when players drop out.

Ye, but vast majority of players are on PC. You see, we can play this game all day long

Of course WoW doesnt have 1 million players, its dumb to compare WS launch month to WoW same as its dumb to compare WS launch month to GW2. And you did, for whatever purpose you had at the time.

Why is there no point to compare, its comapring 2 MMOs, 1 launched 2 years ago and one 3 months ago (which, as far as comaprsions go, YOU compared, so its only fair you comapre those NOW also, to get clearer picture) But as you say, it doesnt really suit you so theres no point comapring….to YOU ;D

Not sure what you’re trying to get at with WildStar now compared to GW2, that’s why I said no point. WildStar died down in popularity after the hype. And?

Well, you see, some people claim that no.12 after 2 years is disaster.

Its not very hard to get your numbers up there in launch month, hell, every MMO did it, BUT, being there after 2 years….bad?

BlueZone.4236:

And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

And now look where Wildstar is already in August :
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-august-2014-league-of-legends-world-of-tanks-get-an-esports-boost/

what the hell is raptr?
If ppl want to look at numbers and what game is popular I think that twitch would be a better choice.

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

Raptr tracks hours played. It should come as no shock to anyone that a new game, in it’s launch month, would take a huge share of the hours played. In July Wildstar had dropped not only in places, but in also massively in hours played. It’s nice to look at this list, but reading the article accompanying it needs to help too. This is a quote from that article that accompanied the July Raptr game report.

“The new MMO WildStar lost seven spots in its second month of release — but more worryingly, gameplay was down 45.63%. We’ll see if its latest PvP game mode, Sabotage, launched on July 31, can help spur a rebound, though initial signs point towards probably not.”

You see I follow these articles from month to month and have done for a long time. On the other hand, quoting the launch month of a game and just looking at the list tells you almost nothing. Raptr, as I’ve said more than once, gives you trends. One month does not a trend make.

Yes, I’m sure when you factor in console more people are playing Final Fantasy than Guild Wars 2. I’m not sure what that proves, because people who use consoles instead of computers don’t have Guild Wars 2 as an option and in fact, have precious few MMOs they can play as options.

I compare PC games to PC games. I dont’ compare PC games to PC and console games directly. On the PC, Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy are very close. No one can say what the result would be if Guild Wars 2 was available on consoles. I suggest this is a red herring.

In any event, even if Guild Wars 2 is the third most successful MMO currently, and it’s in the top 20 in all three programs that track usage, it doesn’t at all change the fact that the game is relatively popular.

I’m sure Anet would accept third most popular MMO.

Corpus Christi.2057:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

You are right. GW2 is a successful MMO, but it’s hardly as successful as some people on these forums think it is.

But GW2 is hardly the failure as some people on these forums think it is either.

papryk.6273:

what the hell is raptr?
If ppl want to look at numbers and what game is popular I think that twitch would be a better choice.

Twitch doesn’t measure people playing, it measures people watching. By far, PvP is more popular on Twitch than PvE. Which means that a game more popular on Twitch might have more PvPers or better PvP to watch.

Raptr, Xfire and Overwolf measure people actually playing while running those programs in the background. Raptr and Xfire measure hours played, Overwolf measures unique log ins. Guild Wars 2 is on the top 20 in all of them.

People play <> people watching.

You can draw inferences from anything, but Raptr, Overwolf and Xfire aren’t drawing inferences. They’re measuring people actually playing games.

papryk.6273:

what the hell is raptr?
If ppl want to look at numbers and what game is popular I think that twitch would be a better choice.

neither are good choices to be honest.

raptr, xfire, twitch… none of these services contain 100% player base of any game. What that means is you’re getting a sample number. Which is fine if it was a meaningful sample but it isnt. Why? each service audience is skewed. raptr for example is not something that casual players will install. If I am the type of player who enjoys play an hour here or an other there why would I install something like raptr? Hardcore players are another story. So what does that mean? raptr is likely to have bigger numbers on games hardcore players like.

Lets take twitch for example. Twitch users broadcast stuff that their audience like. Some games are more appropriate then others. Gw2 for example has a huge disadvantage in PvE. While in your typical MMO you got quests on demand thus you can keep the action going, in Gw2 with dynamic events you might get some slow periods. Viewers might not enjoy much 30 mins of you running around looking for events as much as you smashing poor orcs to pulp all the time for example.

In order to have a meaningful sample you’d need diverse group of people with different tastes. These services are pretty focused on specific groups of people which is why the data they provide is not very meaningful.

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

FFXIV is “neck to neck” with GW2 only on raptr, on xfire its no.20 with roughly 1/3 of GW2 numbers. Oh and FFXIV had crapton on discounts on Steam, you could buy it for 10$ at relaunch on Steam.
———————————-
And if you follow THAT line of thought, WoW only has 1 million subs (6,13% vs. 2,86%)

Why dont people THINK it trhough beore they post. Why dont you compare WS now against GW2?

My, my, someone’s so antsy today. Well, that’s ok. I thought you didn’t believe in these stats anyway.
Also, FF14 is on PS3/PS4.

WoW doesn’t have 1 million subs. As the Raptr blog says “The new MMO [WildStar] impacted the playtime of The Elder Scrolls Online, WoW, Dark Souls II, and Final Fantasy XIV Online, and was definitely a factor that led to those games slipping in the ranks.”
WildStar did target the WoW audience so it made sense it took some hours away from them.

Of course there’s no point in comparing GW2 to WildStar now. WS tried to capture a small target base, hardcore WoW players, and after the hype died down, players dropped out as you expect after hype dies down. With only 500k players, it’s expected to drop off the chart when players drop out.

Ye, but vast majority of players are on PC. You see, we can play this game all day long

Of course WoW doesnt have 1 million players, its dumb to compare WS launch month to WoW same as its dumb to compare WS launch month to GW2. And you did, for whatever purpose you had at the time.

Why is there no point to compare, its comapring 2 MMOs, 1 launched 2 years ago and one 3 months ago (which, as far as comaprsions go, YOU compared, so its only fair you comapre those NOW also, to get clearer picture) But as you say, it doesnt really suit you so theres no point comapring….to YOU ;D

Not sure what you’re trying to get at with WildStar now compared to GW2, that’s why I said no point. WildStar died down in popularity after the hype. And?

Yep and Guild Wars 2 is still in the top 20 in 2 years. That means people are still playing it. Quite a few people. Maybe you don’t like Raptr. But people on Xfire are playing it. People who use Overwolf are playing it. Hell my guild is playing.

I’m not sure why anyone would think the game isn’t doing well. That doesn’t mean it’s doing great, or awesome. It means it’s doing “fine”. Okay. Still being played, still making money.

I don’t need my game to be the top game to enjoy it. As long as it’s sustainable. Thus far it has been.

Galen Grey.4709:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Precisely. The best example here is pretty much any campaing/expansion that was added to GW1.
Each one of them added 2 x more than what the whole 2 years of GW2 added. Not to mention, quality wise, the new content was superior, too.
That’s pretty much what it is all about.

how do you measure something like that?
Gw1 is just too different from Gw2.

I mean lets consider say a dungeon from eye of the north, say Bloodstone Caves (kinda liked that one and ran it a gazillion times, only reason why I picked it). You measure that as being 1:1 with say TA or even with say a single fractal? You may argue that sure why not 1 dungeon for 1 dungeon but then lets be realistic
Does it take the same amount of time to make this:

http://atyrianodyssey.com/gw/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/bloodstone-caves_L2monolith.jpg

as it takes to make this

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/4/47/Underground_Facility_Fractal.jpg

Gw2 has way more props, way higher poly count. more texture layers etc..

which brings us back to my original statement how do you measure the two ?

Content is nice and all that but it needs to be created. With more complexity and more detail it obviously takes a lot more time to create new content in gw2 then it did in gw1.

Besides we dont know all the content thats being developed in gw2 right now either, for all we know they maybe even be working on an expansion we dont yet know about. Most of the content (LS) released by now was developed by just 20 or so people. there are another 330 of them working at Anet! and I dont think they’re being paid to just play the game and do nothing else.

From the very beginning, you are wrong on a logical standpoint.

You cannot under any circumstances claim that it takes more effort to create anything in GW2 than it does in GW1. Those two games were created in different times, with different technological advancements and technologies available. It couldn’t be more safe to assume that GW1 was as difficult to create in the past as GW2 now. Your point is logically invalid.

Second, you asked “how do we measure?” Having in mind the above, extremely important correction to your illogical thinking, now having 1:1 ratio, it’s very easy to measure the two games. Look at what each campaign and expansion added to the game, and how long after the game’s premiere they were introduced. You will see, that again, GW1 had 5 x more content than GW2 during two years of its life.

I think I covered it all. Again, I’m not saying GW2 is “bad, it sucks” and so on as many people on these forum do, but I just state that it: 1) doesn’t live up to its potential 2) it’s developed worse than GW1 3) although successful, it’s not as successful as some people think it is.

Cheers

Corpus Christi.2057:

From the very beginning, you are wrong on a logical standpoint.

You cannot under any circumstances claim that it takes more effort to create anything in GW2 than it does in GW1. Those two games were created in different times, with different technological advancements and technologies available. It couldn’t be more safe to assume that GW1 was as difficult to create in the past as GW2 now. Your point is logically invalid.

Second, you asked “how do we measure?” Having in mind the above, extremely important correction to your illogical thinking, now having 1:1 ratio, it’s very easy to measure the two games. Look at what each campaign and expansion added to the game, and how long after the game’s premiere they were introduced. You will see, that again, GW1 had 5 x more content than GW2 during two years of its life.

I think I covered it all. Again, I’m not saying GW2 is “bad, it sucks” and so on as many people on these forum do, but I just state that it: 1) doesn’t live up to its potential 2) it’s developed worse than GW1 3) although successful, it’s not as successful as some people think it is.

Cheers

I am sorry but I totally disagree. Sure technology improved, it allows us to do more amazing things and sure we can do them faster but more detail is more detail. If a room had 10 props of 20 polygons each and now a room has 200 props of 2000 polygons each (totally invented numbers) they’re not going to take the same amount of time to create. For starters technology didnt improve to the point where an artist can work on multiple props at the same time so the fact you got more props automatically means you need more time regardless of the workflow. And while if say it may have taken 1hr to create a 20 polygon object which now you can do in 30 mins it doesnt mean a 2000 polygon object can be finished in 1hr.

Its a fact most object in Gw1 were pretty flat, objects in Gw2 have detail… that detail needs to be modelled and that takes time.

Essentially what you’re saying is If I had to argue that it took much less time to do one of those pre-historic pictograms on a cave wall then it takes to do a photo realistic painting now a days. you’re saying its illogical cause with today’s technology we can paint faster. Well I am sure that with todays technology we could make a pictogram in a fraction of the time it took those cave wo/men but it still wouldnt take 200hrs+ some photo realistic paintings take today.

There is a reason why now a days MMOs either release small updates every few months or expansions nearly after 2 years where as before it was 6 months – 1 year for a whole expansion pack. with the increased graphical fidelity stuff takes longer to make. Its not just MMOs take single player game sequels, it used to be 2 – 3 years not its 5 – 7 years. Additional detail means additional work.

One should keep in mind the general philosophy of Anet since GW1 release, atypically favoring the casual over the hardcore, in tandem with the f2p model when discussing such things as it being “successful” or not. It really is a beast unto itself in this regard imo.

The majority of regular forum posters fall into the “hardcore” or at least fairly regular players. Few 80’s in the roster, a legendary or two, etc, etc and I think opinion from many maybe skewered as to them yes…the game may be dying for them personally, but overall the casual majority are still having a blast.

It’s called burn out in a game franchise that has never had enough end-game content for such players, but it’s never really been that type of game. Other MMO’s seem to cater to the end-game market better and if I were that type of player I’d be living my MMO life there. I struggle when such players burn through the content on multiple alts, get bored, then state as a result the game must be dead or dying. Fact is it’s not or we would be getting NO new content at all. Period.

At the least GW1 would have shut down, but even that’s still trucking on.

I guess my point is GW has always been a game you can just completely forget about for months, many do, only to get into to it again later down the track. It’s a jump in and jump out kinda game where it’s really up to the player to make their own fun. It should be taken as a casual game, as Anet have always stated that is the main type of player they are targeting as opposed to hardcore grinders/raiders, etc.

Yeah you can play for 10 hours a day, every day and have 23 alts each with ascended gear and legendary weapons but to then complain and claim the game is at fault or failing is actually the fault of the player and their expectations imho, not the game itself.

If I was paying $15 a month…..different story.

My only other thought would be in regards to the quotes regarding are they/are’nt they doing an expansion? Fact is who knows but posting quotes means nothing. Anet, much like every other game maker in history, can and have done complete 180’s on a multitude of “official” statements and so-called “set in stone” decisions in the past and no doubt will again.

Personally I’d love one as I vastly prefer the format of GW1’s expansions over drip feeding content and while I have found the LS entertaining I have also found it rather unrewarding in comparison to the joy a full expansion brings.

2 years and going strong imho.

Romek.4201:

wasting of time to discuss with ppl like this^^ – you will spam same things over and over again until thread has 10+ sites and noone read it anymore (like all the other threads)

so move on – no time for this

you’re doing the same thing, you know

why does it matter if a game is “dying?”

It’s a game. You play it until you complete it/don’t feel like playing, and if you feel like playing you return to it. Games aren’t required to give you content to “keep playing.” Just play if you want to play.

Jexx.6471:

why does it matter if a game is “dying?”

It’s a game. You play it until you complete it/don’t feel like playing, and if you feel like playing you return to it. Games aren’t required to give you content to “keep playing.” Just play if you want to play.

It matters to a lot of people. Because in an MMO you invest more time into it than your average game, and you become vested in it. If it’s not going to be there, you’d have to start over somewhere else, building your fortune, leveling characters.

If I knew an MMO had six months left, I probably wouldn’t start playing it. On the other hand, I would play a driving game that wasn’t going to be around in six months.

It comes a time to just say good-bye. Anet is not releasing new content, no reason to stay. There’s plenty of new games coming out.

I just think Anet blew it, they had a good game name because of GW1 and they didn’t know what to do with it. Personally, NcSoft should just fire the whole bunch of them and bring in another group to take over the development of this game.

I really can’t understand why they stopped working on their game after the launch. They made a great game and didn’t want to expand it. What are they doing in their office ? What did they do for the past 2 years ?

According to this official post the EU population is more than healthy when compared to the NA one. It doesn’t give any numbers though so we can’t drawn any further conclusions.

Vayne.8563:

It matters to a lot of people. Because in an MMO you invest more time into it than your average game, and you become vested in it. If it’s not going to be there, you’d have to start over somewhere else, building your fortune, leveling characters.

If I knew an MMO had six months left, I probably wouldn’t start playing it. On the other hand, I would play a driving game that wasn’t going to be around in six months.

This is exactly why you see so many passionate responses to changes people feel hurt the game. I love GW2, and most of all I worry that some of the directions being taken are wrong and are harming the game long term. It is a very tough pill to swallow after investing two years of time and money and then be totally cut off from any meaningful information on what’s coming down the line. You hit the nail on the head with your statement “If I knew an MMO had six months left I probably wouldn’t start playing it” but that thought extends further and for many here would include “If I don’t know what the future of the game holds why should I keep playing and supporting it?”.
This is what is causing so many people angst and why they question the reasons for going on with GW2. Most won’t out of blind faith, especially when several things such as traits and even ascended gear are still sore spots. Giving people a clear forecast of what is coming, even without a ton of specifics (due to development changes) would go a very long way in making them feel secure in a continued investment. The only logical reason for not doing so is that they don’t have what people are expecting at this stage and therefore it would be more detrimental to release that information.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Vayne.8563:

It matters to a lot of people. Because in an MMO you invest more time into it than your average game, and you become vested in it. If it’s not going to be there, you’d have to start over somewhere else, building your fortune, leveling characters.

If I knew an MMO had six months left, I probably wouldn’t start playing it. On the other hand, I would play a driving game that wasn’t going to be around in six months.

This is exactly why you see so many passionate responses to changes people feel hurt the game. I love GW2, and most of all I worry that some of the directions being taken are wrong and are harming the game long term. It is a very tough pill to swallow after investing two years of time and money and then be totally cut off from any meaningful information on what’s coming down the line. You hit the nail on the head with your statement “If I knew an MMO had six months left I probably wouldn’t start playing it” but that thought extends further and for many here would include “If I don’t know what the future of the game holds why should I keep playing and supporting it?”.
This is what is causing so many people angst and why they question the reasons for going on with GW2. Most won’t out of blind faith, especially when several things such as traits and even ascended gear are still sore spots. Giving people a clear forecast of what is coming, even without a ton of specifics (due to development changes) would go a very long way in making them feel secure in a continued investment.

Yep, I agree. And I’m banking that Anet knows more than most forum dwellers, including me. That’s my bet. Because they have access to data we don’t have.

It’s nice to be a back-seat developer and tell people how to run their game, but so far, the stuff they’ve done that the community doesn’t like hasn’t seem to have hurt their bottom line much. So many Anet does know a thing or two.

I’m willing to see if the NPE does retain more players. If it does that’s a plus for me, not a minus. I’m not sure why you think I’d trust Anet’s plan less than some stranger on the forum I don’t know at all.

I’m saying that so far at least, it doesn’t look like Anet is losing the battle to move the game forward. In spite of the forum opinion.

Vayne.8563:

Yep, I agree. And I’m banking that Anet knows more than most forum dwellers, including me. That’s my bet. Because they have access to data we don’t have.

It’s nice to be a back-seat developer and tell people how to run their game, but so far, the stuff they’ve done that the community doesn’t like hasn’t seem to have hurt their bottom line much. So many Anet does know a thing or two.

I’m willing to see if the NPE does retain more players. If it does that’s a plus for me, not a minus. I’m not sure why you think I’d trust Anet’s plan less than some stranger on the forum I don’t know at all.

I’m saying that so far at least, it doesn’t look like Anet is losing the battle to move the game forward. In spite of the forum opinion.

I have no idea where this response fits into what I posted, so forgive me if I misunderstood your intent but what I was referencing was not the NPE (I have already voiced my opinions on this) but rather the lack of a forecast of upcoming content and the harm that it is doing and could continue to do going forward. I am talking specifically about that issue and why it has led to many feeling the game is lackluster at this point.
Before you jump all over my statement of harm it’s doing it is specific to my personal experience with friends and family not the average back-seat developer as you’ve pointed out.

Corpus Christi.2057:

Nevertheless, I don’t think AA is what it was supposed to be, especially with its many limitations for f2p users ( most notably, regeneration of labour pts., limited crafting, housing and so on ).

Sounds like Castleville with a much bigger design budget, tbh. The so-called FB games have proven that people will click stuff to build stuff, and some of them will pay to be able to click more often. Graft that model on to open PvP and add some MMO elements, and voila. GW2 may be a “casual’s” playground, but at least it isn’t nickel and diming me to actually play the game. That makes it a superior model, imho.

A big issue (also imo) for all online MMO’s is that there is a constant struggle to keep up with player demands for something new. Without new experiences, players get bored. MMO’s typically substitute lengthy pursuits for a constant infusion of new content. What technique(s) they use to do so determine which demographic(s) they’re going to attract. There’s the raid thing, there’s dailies, achievements, collecting, dress-up, and lots of others.

Threads like this are players saying, “I’m bored. I want to stay with this game, but I need new stuff to hold my interest.” Part of the issue there is that these players have completed the “lengthy pursuit(s)” that are offered and which appealed to them. Collections was an effort on ANet’s part to add another lengthy pursuit. Some people have adopted the idea, others haven’t.

Last season’s two week content schedule was (afaik) the most ambitious content release schedule offered by any MMO. So what happened? People complained constantly about the quality (as well as its temporary nature). Some said, “Take longer between releases but offer permanent content of better quality.”

This season, the two week schedule is still in play, but with hiatuses. The quality is up, however people still aren’t happy. As the return of LS2 in November approaches, player hype will ramp up. I expect that no matter what ANet offers, once it hits, some will be disappointed. At that point, we’ll see more threads like this one.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Vayne.8563:

Yep, I agree. And I’m banking that Anet knows more than most forum dwellers, including me. That’s my bet. Because they have access to data we don’t have.

It’s nice to be a back-seat developer and tell people how to run their game, but so far, the stuff they’ve done that the community doesn’t like hasn’t seem to have hurt their bottom line much. So many Anet does know a thing or two.

I’m willing to see if the NPE does retain more players. If it does that’s a plus for me, not a minus. I’m not sure why you think I’d trust Anet’s plan less than some stranger on the forum I don’t know at all.

I’m saying that so far at least, it doesn’t look like Anet is losing the battle to move the game forward. In spite of the forum opinion.

I have no idea where this response fits into what I posted, so forgive me if I misunderstood your intent but what I was referencing was not the NPE (I have already voiced my opinions on this) but rather the lack of a forecast of upcoming content and the harm that it is doing and could continue to do going forward. I am talking specifically about that issue and why it has led to many feeling the game is lackluster at this point.
Before you jump all over my statement of harm it’s doing it is specific to my personal experience with friends and family not the average back-seat developer as you’ve pointed out.

That’s probably all true. And I’ve often had problems with how Anet releases information, in a lot of ways. I think they’re terrible at communicating. If I weren’t so disliked on these forums, I’d apply for a job translating for them.

But my answer doesn’t really change much. What they’re doing so far really doesn’t seem to have hurt their bottom line. I’m not sure it’s sustainable much longer, but then they are trying to communicate more now, so there is that.

Vayne.8563:

they are trying to communicate more now, so there is that.

I’ve heard it said there is no ‘try’. There’s do, or do not. They can try to communicate more, but until they do something constructive with their can’t talk about that policy, all that trying is a waste of their time, and ours.

Vayne.8563:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Vayne.8563:

Yep, I agree. And I’m banking that Anet knows more than most forum dwellers, including me. That’s my bet. Because they have access to data we don’t have.

It’s nice to be a back-seat developer and tell people how to run their game, but so far, the stuff they’ve done that the community doesn’t like hasn’t seem to have hurt their bottom line much. So many Anet does know a thing or two.

I’m willing to see if the NPE does retain more players. If it does that’s a plus for me, not a minus. I’m not sure why you think I’d trust Anet’s plan less than some stranger on the forum I don’t know at all.

I’m saying that so far at least, it doesn’t look like Anet is losing the battle to move the game forward. In spite of the forum opinion.

I have no idea where this response fits into what I posted, so forgive me if I misunderstood your intent but what I was referencing was not the NPE (I have already voiced my opinions on this) but rather the lack of a forecast of upcoming content and the harm that it is doing and could continue to do going forward. I am talking specifically about that issue and why it has led to many feeling the game is lackluster at this point.
Before you jump all over my statement of harm it’s doing it is specific to my personal experience with friends and family not the average back-seat developer as you’ve pointed out.

That’s probably all true. And I’ve often had problems with how Anet releases information, in a lot of ways. I think they’re terrible at communicating. If I weren’t so disliked on these forums, I’d apply for a job translating for them.

But my answer doesn’t really change much. What they’re doing so far really doesn’t seem to have hurt their bottom line. I’m not sure it’s sustainable much longer, but then they are trying to communicate more now, so there is that.

I haven’t seen any evidence that they are communicating their future plans any better. What we have seen is CM doing damage control by making empty noise(“We are looking into that.” “X is important to us.”).

Other than fixing a bunch of bugs they introduced this patch, I have no idea what their future plans are.

Vayne.8563:

Jexx.6471:

why does it matter if a game is “dying?”

It’s a game. You play it until you complete it/don’t feel like playing, and if you feel like playing you return to it. Games aren’t required to give you content to “keep playing.” Just play if you want to play.

It matters to a lot of people. Because in an MMO you invest more time into it than your average game, and you become vested in it. If it’s not going to be there, you’d have to start over somewhere else, building your fortune, leveling characters.

If I knew an MMO had six months left, I probably wouldn’t start playing it. On the other hand, I would play a driving game that wasn’t going to be around in six months.

I guess I understand that. I wasn’t thinking of an MMO “dying” in a literal sense: of the servers actually shutting down. That really wasn’t a thought with me. But, I mean, with MMOs, I feel like they’re just games like any other. They’re things I can get really into and play hundreds of hours on.

And I love Guild Wars 2, I have a lot of faith in ArenaNet, and although I just recently returned to the game (I played for about a month at release but then life happened and I just came back around a month ago), I feel like they’ve been adding a lot of good content. While I don’t agree with all the changes the recent pack has made, I believe that ArenaNet knows what they’re doing.

I really liked the twisted marionette and escape from lions arch (not battle) this year.

I am not in love with Dry Top (why is everything good there account bound?)

I think Edge of the Mists was this year… It’s a good zone, giving GW2 sort of an open world Pvp option, without interfering with WvW or PvE.

Living story season 2 stuff probably suffers from being single player content within a MMO. Its gameplay is better than the personal story, but not really the main point of the MMO.

PvP really needs a mode other than conquest, and WvW still needs new maps and a solution to nightcapping. Players of these modes are the ones with every right to be disappointed, especially PvPer’s who got all of their glory stolen from them