Guild Wars 2

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Curuglas.1847:

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

It is just like the dailies, you pick and choose which achievements you want to do. There are achievements that could only be worked on for a few days a year, that could take decades to finish using your example of time played.

If this was true, then no one would have 50/50, since they obviously did not spend decades on this (EotN release 2007) – your argument is flawed.

Since my example took into account for players to play the game 8 hours per day, every day of the year, they surely would find the time it takes to get on those time limited achievements as well.

q.e.d.

Seriously? Are you just trying to play games are do you really have reading comprehension issues? There are NOT 50 achievements in total. There are well over a dozen achievements left AFTER you get 50/50. You can do any 50 of the achievements available to get 50/50, just like you can do any 5 of the 11 dailies to get 5/5. You really are completely clueless how the achievements in GW1 worked or for that fact, anything about them. Your lack of knowledge invalidates your whole argument. You can’t have a discussion if you do not even know the most basic facts about the subject. You can keep posting “your wrong” to every post every other player makes, but it only shows your lack of knowledge on the subject. And to be clear, technically there where no achievements in GW1 at all, they where titles. Some of the points you received in HoM where for owning specific weapons , miniatures or armor as well. Using the term “achievements” is only for the GW2 players who are unfamiliar with how GW1 worked.
Bottom line, you can belly ache all you want, anet is not going to make changes for a couple of players who are clueless and refuse to use common sense.
Try this, go stand in the middle of Lions Arch and ask in map chat how many players are upset about the leaderboard and the APs. Take screenshots of your responses and post them here.
BTW, can you explain with your magical math skills, how a player could find a way to work on achievements when the very event that you needed to get the achievement was gone until the next year? If you can somehow do that, I would like to know as there are a couple of the Halloween events that I would like to do today, but can’t seem to find them?

As I said the guy probably has reading issues. Despite being told from numerous people, several times each that Anet said LONG before GW2 released that they’d reward GW1 players in GW2, I really think he has reading or comprehension problems.

Anyone who threatens the devs by saying “DO THIS OR I QUIT” generally is a joke around the office anyway so just take comfort in the fact that ArenaNet is taking this guy just as seriously as we are.

Crikk.3854:

Late to the party, but I figured I’d add my 50 cents…
PvP and WvW already have leaderboards, so I think that the AP leaderboard should be for PvE only. As such, any points from PvP Dailies/Monthlies/titles and same for WvW should be NOT included so that you get a true measure of PvE accomplishements!
Is that going to happen? Hell no. Since I rarely PvP or WvW, I’m unlikely to crack the top 1000 (although I’m close). Is this the end of the world? No.
ANet was just rewarding dedicated fans of Tyria. If you’re jealous of the extra points that GW1 players got, I hope you’re also QQ’ing about the minis and kites that people who spent money buying gems got because it’s the same kitten thing — ANet rewarding loyal fans.
While you’re at it, why don’t you ask that any points earned during the 3-day head start be dropped too? That was also “unfair” to anyone who didn’t pre-order, wasn’t it?
Oh… And I’m going on a 2-week vacation soon and won’t be able to play, so can ANet please turn off all AP advancement for everyone else because that’s not fair to me either! :P
TLDR version: grow up and get over it!

This guy know what he’s talking about. Though Curaglas or whatever, the biggest whiner in the thread, won’t even read it. And if he does, he will just call you greedy and not comprehend a word of it that you say.

I talked to the guy in game and let me tell you he really is this full of himself and really believes every word he’s typing in this thread should be taken seriously. He assured me he WILL quit the game if this isn’t “taken care of.”

Well, it’s been over a week and he’s still here. Not sure when he’ll quit exactly but good riddance it’ll make this game a better place without him.

denny.8350:

And have no idea that asking to remove the 500 AP ANet gave GW1 50/50 vets is equally ugly, petty, and greedy? You sir are a hypocrite.

He genuinely believes that we’re greedy because ArenaNet awarded us with bonus stuff for being loyal fans, yet he is the one trying to take away our hard earned achievements. It’s funny yet very sad to think that a person can actually have this sort of mentality.

I’ve said what I’m going to say about him. Any more and I’ll probably get infracted. You all know what the guy is like from just reading his posts through the last 13 pages. No awareness whatsoever of anything besides what he wants.

emmm….. i’m confused….. does it matter if the person beside you have 500 more AP ? is it Skin War now ?

azizul.8469:

emmm….. i’m confused….. does it matter if the person beside you have 500 more AP ? is it Skin War now ?

No it matters because he was bumped down on a leaderboard. He has 11,000 achievement points and now there are some people with 11,600. Meaning there were still people far ahead of him before this change.

ah… pride….. yes…. and you do receive reward for being no. 1 ?

now come on ladies and gents. Don’t hammer to kitten him. Some of us enjoy reading post of people trying to rationalize such faulty logic.

I for one am still waiting for those to scrape their way out of Smooth Penguins link regarding EoTN.
But of course, its one people don’t want to comment on because it invalidates everything they have said thus far. Making them looking like a fool.

And for the GW1 vets, we can’t begin to count the number of post “I’m gonna quit this game” when talking about changes to the sin. Everyone laughed at those as well.

So this is kind of related… I started playing Guild Wars 1 about a week or two ago and am really having a great time. I’m about halfway through the Nightfall campaign.

Anyone care to join me and we can play through all the campaigns?

My elementalist’s name is Fir Startur. That’s a hillbilly way of saying Fire Starter in case anyone was wondering.

sculler.3905:

So this is kind of related… I started playing Guild Wars 1 about a week or two ago and am really having a great time. I’m about halfway through the Nightfall campaign.

Anyone care to join me and we can play through all the campaigns?

My elementalist’s name is Fir Startur. That’s a hillbilly way of saying Fire Starter in case anyone was wondering.

Feel free to add me in game in GW1. My name is Im Teh Pwnzor I love going back to GW1 if you need any help and I’m on let me know. Also if you’d like to PM me in GW2 if I’m online I may not be busy and may wanna jump on to GW1 so feel free to hit me up any time. I’m always down to play it – such a great game.

Mkalafut.1273:

Feel free to add me in game in GW1. My name is Im Teh Pwnzor I love going back to GW1 if you need any help and I’m on let me know. Also if you’d like to PM me in GW2 if I’m online I may not be busy and may wanna jump on to GW1 so feel free to hit me up any time. I’m always down to play it – such a great game.

Awesome, I added you in both games!

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

You can’t have a discussion if you do not even know the most basic facts about the subject.

Indeed; maybe you should at least try to comprehend the facts?

Even if we took into account all the time since GW1 release (2004, correct?), then people had about 8 years to complete the 50/50 before switching their play time to GW2. Even though I sincerely doubt them to play GW1 for 8 years 8 hours every day, let’s assume they really did this, to place the achievement into perspective with GW2’s Yakslapper. Then you’d get the GW1’s 50/50 in roughly about half the time it takes for the Yakslapper – which raises the comparative value of HoM 50/50 to about half a Yakslapper (still worth 56 AP), meaning it should not exceed 28 AP.

And since the HoM was @20 AP prior to the last patch, this was clearly enough for those long term achievements.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

BTW, can you explain with your magical math skills, how a player could find a way to work on achievements when the very event that you needed to get the achievement was gone until the next year?

My assumption to complete the long term achievements is based on a dedicated active daily play time of 8 hours every day of the year. This should result in being no time left to “miss” any time framed achievements.

Since the GW1 achievements are supposedly still all completable, they should be completable on at least one day of the year. Therefore it does not matter at all when any of those “achievements” can be completed.

I hope you understand the math used now, else you might want to ask your math teacher to explain these rather simple things – or maybe sue him to get your money back.

Mkalafut.1273:

I’m not sure if you

The word you seem to lack is “persistent”.

Mkalafut.1273:

that Anet said from the very beginning that they’d be rewarding GW1 players in GW2.

Yes, and some seem to fail to grasp that no one is denying this. No one here seems to be asking for HoM not to be rewarded – in fact it was already rewarded, even if some people might have expected more. By all means, ANet could send the 50/50 players a free precursor for all I care.
The only real issue is that they should not screw up the achievement points as a competitive value of “game completion”.

Mkalafut.1273:

If by now you aren’t grasping that they aren’t going to revoke these achievements or points associated with HoM

Nothing is written in stone, and since this is an issue rather easily fixed, why shouldn’t they? It’s commonplace in developing software to make changes with unforeseen side effects, and fixing those issues is part of the development process – it may take a little time for the fix to be implemented, but I am still confident that they will address this problem.

Curuglas.1847:

Nothing is written in stone, and since this is an issue rather easily fixed, why shouldn’t they? It’s commonplace in developing software to make changes with unforeseen side effects, and fixing those issues is part of the development process – it may take a little time for the fix to be implemented, but I am still confident that they will address this problem.

You’re making the false assumption that something is broken to begin with and needs fixing. There’s a difference between something being broken and something not making you happy.

Curuglas.1847:

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

BTW, can you explain with your magical math skills, how a player could find a way to work on achievements when the very event that you needed to get the achievement was gone until the next year?

My assumption to complete the long term achievements is based on a dedicated active daily play time of 8 hours every day of the year. This should result in being no time left to “miss” any time framed achievements.

Since the GW1 achievements are supposedly still all completable, they should be completable on at least one day of the year. Therefore it does not matter at all when any of those “achievements” can be completed.

I hope you understand the math used now, else you might want to ask your math teacher to explain these rather simple things – or maybe sue him to get your money back.

Again, your assumptions are completely wrong. The time limited events could not be completed in a single event, you had to do several months of actual in game time in the event to complete the title, but you only had 2 days a year to do it. Since this is impossible unless you had access to a time machine, you had to wait until the event came around each year to do a little bit more of it. Most players working on the titles would go (The filter blocks this?) “Away From Keyboard” in the events and stay logged on 24 hours during the events, and it still took them years to complete, so using your 8 hours, those players would still be working on those titles to this day. Again, you are showing you are completely clueless when it comes to the titles in GW1. Have you even considered reading the wiki a little so you have some at least idea what you are talking about?

Again, explain how you can complete a title that takes several months of “actual in game time, logged in to the game”, in 48 hours? If you can not explain this, then please stop posting as you are simply making a fool of yourself and wasting everyone’s time.

Mkalafut.1273:

This guy know what he’s talking about.

Sure, he pointed out some other akitten ues. I already suggested solutions to some of those, btw (like daily/monthly hard caps, story instances of historical content, etc).

The WvW and PvP points, though part of GW2, could indeed be placed in separate categories from PvE points. Maybe they could simply make the points displayed to other players environment based. Like if you are in PvE areas only the PvE points are displayed, in PvP only the PvP points and in WvW only the WvW points. HoM points would only be shown in the HoM area. Then the leaderboards could be altered to display only PvE/WvW/PvP/HoM content (based on selected filter). That would take a little more effort I guess but could also be a solution to WvW, PvP and HoM points.

Mkalafut.1273:

Though Curaglas or whatever, the biggest whiner in the thread, won’t even read it. And if he does, he will just call you greedy and not comprehend a word of it that you say.

Oh, I do read and comprehend. But I rarely comment on things I mostly agree with. And did he ask for anything “more” warranting a “greedy” label? I didn’t notice. But reading your post I might have to start assuming you having a twisted sense of comprehension.

Mkalafut.1273:

I talked to the guy in game and let me tell you he really is this full of himself and really believes every word he’s typing in this thread should be taken seriously. He assured me he WILL quit the game if this isn’t “taken care of.”

If you do not believe your own words, why bother typing? Of course I stand behind what I write (spelling and grammar mistakes included ), both my opinions and simple facts. And of course I take others’ opinions equally serious, although opinions can be subject to change, if appropriate arguments are presented – and understood.

Mkalafut.1273:

Well, it’s been over a week and he’s still here. Not sure when he’ll quit exactly but good riddance it’ll make this game a better place without him.

Well, I am a rather calm person, but your spiteful posts just confirm my decision having placed you on my ignore list.

Since I know that properly fixing those issues takes some time, I am not in a rush to leave the game just yet – but of course currently I am not inclined to buy gems until the issue is addressed – also a form of leaving, since it might leave a small mark where the responsible company might notice this one day: their balance sheet.

wouldnt the solution to this be gw2 achievements points = leaderboard then add gw1 heritage achievements from HoM = achievement rewards. problem solved, kittens repaired.

Curuglas, please explain the discrepancy using Anets words not your opinions to how the 500 points contradicts this link. http://www.guildwars.com/products/eyeofthenorth/default.php
Again, please do not use your opinions, as of now that is all I am seeing. Only use statements made by anet, showing when/what/how they contradicted themselves.
Then explain why it is fair that the 50/50 required 3 separate stand alone games to achieve and not just one game.

VOLKON.1290:

You’re making the false assumption that something is broken to begin with and needs fixing. There’s a difference between something being broken and something not making you happy.

I am making this assumption, yes. Whether it’s false or true is yet a matter of opinion, since there is still no official response from the devs on this topic.

If for sake of argument you’d follow along the assumption that indeed the HoM awarding achievement points does break the comparison of GW2 game completion, you too could come to the conclusion that this should be fixed.

Maybe not only this, as some other issues (most of them already mentioned in this tread, too) exist with achievement points and could be addressed, too.

If – for sake of argument – your assumption of achievement points not being broken by HoM is correct, yes, I wouldn’t be happy with it. But even if it is not “broken”, this doesn’t mean that this aspect cannot be improved – i.e. (among other changes) by exchanging the achievement points in HoM for some real rewards.

I remember 1000s of people saying in GW1 if they nerf the sin (which they did) they were leaving. It got anets attention though. Cause they ended up nerfing it 3 times after that. The I am gonna leave the game if they don’t change it equates to I’m gonna hold my breath until I get my way. My 3 years still does that from time to time.

The reason everyone is laughing at the negative comments is because Anet did what they said they would do. And the GW1 “vets” have seen the…I’m gonna leave the game if……" thousands of times. And we have learned Anet’s general response is See ya, don’t let Mhenlo hit you on the butt on the way out.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Again, your assumptions are completely wrong.

You just don’t seem to understand, do you?

Yakslapper: 1 000 000 dolyaks
Try for an hour to kill on average 1 dolyak every 2 minutes , meaning 30 dolyaks in an hour. To get the Yakslapper you’d have to go on killing dolyaks for about 33 333 hours. No time being away, all active playing.
This equals to slightly over 11 years of active playing 8 hours per day – doing nothing but killing dolyaks

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

The time limited events could not be completed in a single event, you had to do several months of actual in game time in the event to complete the title, but you only had 2 days a year to do it.

This actually adds for only 2 days of 16 hours, resulting in 64 hours. Compared to the 33 333 hours this means an additional 0.2% of 56 AP – negligible.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Again, you are showing you are completely clueless when it comes to the titles in GW1.

Show me one player who actively played GW1 every single day for over 11 years (meaning he started playing in 2001/2002).
Then, if he achieved his HoM titles in this time, he actually did the same deed required for the Yakslapper – which is worth 56 AP. So if HoM is easier or faster, (i.e. can be accomplished by being away for even a short while, or can be accomplished by starting to play after 2002), then in comparison it could be worth less than those 56 AP, couldn’t it?

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Have you even considered reading the wiki a little so you have some at least idea what you are talking about?

I did not check what is required for GW1 titles, no. But the fact that some people actually do have the titles sort of implies that they did not have to actively play for 11+ years…

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Again, explain how you can complete a title that takes several months of “actual in game time, logged in to the game”, in 48 hours? If you can not explain this, then please stop posting as you are simply making a fool of yourself and wasting everyone’s time.

Indeed, you might explain this, since this is your claim and not one of mine.
My claim is that there is a long term achievement worth 56 AP in GW2 which takes about 33 333 hours of not just logged on time but active play without being away at all. Compared to this achievement HoM requires much less time. Thus HoM should also be worth less than the 56 AP.

But to be honest, I chose the first arbitrary long term (in this case WvW) achievement for comparison. The problem might just be with the Yakslapper (which I came to presume due to the math), or rather most WvW achievements – i.e. All We See, We Own:
Capture 100 000 keeps, which boils down to: walking up to a keep and capture it. Walking from keep to keep takes a few minutes, say 2-3 minutes, prying open outer and inner doors can be done in about another 2-3 minutes, killing the lord is another minute – all assuming you have siege weaponry and no one defends the keep. This makes at least 5-7 minutes per keep, which is rather optimistic on average long term. Assuming 6 minutes per keep lets you capture 10 keeps per hour (which would be a huge feat, btw). 100 000 keeps means 10 000 hours of active walking and capturing, without opposition, and with a trailing group of another server to retake the keeps in the same time you go capturing, so once the immunity buff is gone you can get in and do your capturing again. Those 10 000 hours means more then 3 years of 8 hours every day all year long running in circles capturing keep after keep. And, those 10 000 hours are worth 56 AP, too.

Sadly, there are no other long term achievements available for comparison in GW2 but the WvW ones – and most probably the flaw is there. I just pointed out that the long term achievements (of which GW1 had plenty I concluded) in GW2 are worth much less for much more actual work than the HoM – and if you actually do know what kind of work this was, then you might understand the issue.

On the other hand, points awarded for living story and such, are much too high in comparison to the long term achievements – so maybe Anet should rework the entire achievement point system – and get a competitive PvE system working which includes only GW2 content.

denny.8350:

You can tell they thought it out since the first chest is 500 AP and the amount you get for 50/50 is…. drum roll please 500 AP. So if it was in the game from the beginning if you got 50/50 you would start the game with 500 AP. ANet is genius really.

Agreed.

Curuglas

Dude…it’s not a competition. I thought we went over this already…

william dj.6953:

I remember 1000s of people saying in GW1 if they nerf the sin (which they did) they were leaving. It got anets attention though. Cause they ended up nerfing it 3 times after that. The I am gonna leave the game if they don’t change it equates to I’m gonna hold my breath until I get my way. My 3 years still does that from time to time.

The reason everyone is laughing at the negative comments is because Anet did what they said they would do. And the GW1 “vets” have seen the…I’m gonna leave the game if……" thousands of times. And we have learned Anet’s general response is See ya, don’t let Mhenlo hit you on the butt on the way out.

Yep. Though I never threatened to quit GW1 or 2 for any reason because that’s petty and childish, but that’s essentially what Curuglas and a few others are doing. If you are going to quit, then go for it – Anet doesn’t care and neither do we.

Curuglas.1847:

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Again, your assumptions are completely wrong.

You just don’t seem to understand, do you?

Yakslapper: 1 000 000 dolyaks
Try for an hour to kill on average 1 dolyak every 2 minutes , meaning 30 dolyaks in an hour. To get the Yakslapper you’d have to go on killing dolyaks for about 33 333 hours. No time being away, all active playing.
This equals to slightly over 11 years of active playing 8 hours per day – doing nothing but killing dolyaks

Not sure how that’s relevant here. It’s an absurd requirement, that I can agree with you on, but what’s that gotta do with any of this?

Curuglas, I see you have not posted on my link. Of course with good reason.

If you feel the achievement points in WvW are not in par with the rest of the achievement in GW2 then why are you trying to use the broken system to validate an argument. kinda like a bucket with holes in, and your arguing "well it “can” hold water. as long as you keep putting water in it.

Do you not see you this makes you looks. One would think by some of your post you have some self esteem.
I think your an intelligent person, I just don’t think you have any common sense.

danielrjones.8759:

Curuglas, please explain the discrepancy using Anets words not your opinions to how the 500 points contradicts this link. http://www.guildwars.com/products/eyeofthenorth/default.php

The only mention of HoM on this link I can find is:
“Your own Hall of Monuments: a personalized trophy chamber where your achievements can become rewards for your Guild Wars 2 characters—only available in Eye of the North”
So, yes, there is a trophy chamber, and yes, there are rewards for the characters to display (skins, pets, etc.). I cannot find any mention of achievement points there, though. And I am not and never was opposed to HoM rewards – I just ask to make them character rewards rather than messing up the scores.

I checked with the GW2 Support pages and found only this: https://en.support.guildwars2.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9029
Here Anet writes:
“The monuments in the hall are worth points that can be used to provide your Guild Wars 2 characters with exclusive titles, items, mini-pets, and animal companions.”
Again, titles, items, minis and pets only. No achievement points.

“Those achievements will be recognized in Guild Wars 2.”
Yes, they were recognized and rewarded, but since there are other achievements worth 0 points (i.e. Frequent Sprinter), why should HoM award points, and even more points since last patch?

danielrjones.8759:

Only use statements made by anet, showing when/what/how they contradicted themselves.

It’s not contradiction rather than omission, like, they did not tell the non-GW1 players that GW1 players will have an advantage to their scores.

danielrjones.8759:

Then explain why it is fair that the 50/50 required 3 separate stand alone games to achieve and not just one game.

Did those 3 games have the same interface, same account and same character(names) on the account? If so then there is not much difference to other online games with a regular fee, only there the fee was bound to the next expansion…

danielrjones.8759:

Curuglas, I see you have not posted on my link. Of course with good reason.

If you feel the achievement points in WvW are not in par with the rest of the achievement in GW2 then why are you trying to use the broken system to validate an argument. kinda like a bucket with holes in, and your arguing "well it “can” hold water. as long as you keep putting water in it.

Do you not see you this makes you looks. One would think by some of your post you have some self esteem.
I think your an intelligent person, I just don’t think you have any common sense.

Myself and other have already said at least 20 times that he doesn’t listen to logic. He won’t respond to it either. He’ll try to make what you say seem like something else by twisting it in his favor. He doesn’t listen. He doesn’t comprehend.

He’s already said he’s quitting the game yet I see him online in-game every day almost all day. Funny how that works. “DO THIS OR I QUIT! RABBLE RABBLE!!11” ….does nothing.

Curuglas.1847:

danielrjones.8759:

Only use statements made by anet, showing when/what/how they contradicted themselves.

It’s not contradiction rather than omission, like, they did not tell the non-GW1 players that GW1 players will have an advantage to their scores.

“An advantage to their scores”… Please tell me what having a high achievement point score does for you that provides an advantage.

Curuglas.1847:

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Again, your assumptions are completely wrong.

You just don’t seem to understand, do you?

Yakslapper: 1 000 000 dolyaks
Try for an hour to kill on average 1 dolyak every 2 minutes , meaning 30 dolyaks in an hour. To get the Yakslapper you’d have to go on killing dolyaks for about 33 333 hours. No time being away, all active playing.
This equals to slightly over 11 years of active playing 8 hours per day – doing nothing but killing dolyaks

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

The time limited events could not be completed in a single event, you had to do several months of actual in game time in the event to complete the title, but you only had 2 days a year to do it.

This actually adds for only 2 days of 16 hours, resulting in 64 hours. Compared to the 33 333 hours this means an additional 0.2% of 56 AP – negligible.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Again, you are showing you are completely clueless when it comes to the titles in GW1.

Show me one player who actively played GW1 every single day for over 11 years (meaning he started playing in 2001/2002).
Then, if he achieved his HoM titles in this time, he actually did the same deed required for the Yakslapper – which is worth 56 AP. So if HoM is easier or faster, (i.e. can be accomplished by being away for even a short while, or can be accomplished by starting to play after 2002), then in comparison it could be worth less than those 56 AP, couldn’t it?

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Have you even considered reading the wiki a little so you have some at least idea what you are talking about?

I did not check what is required for GW1 titles, no. But the fact that some people actually do have the titles sort of implies that they did not have to actively play for 11+ years…

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Again, explain how you can complete a title that takes several months of “actual in game time, logged in to the game”, in 48 hours? If you can not explain this, then please stop posting as you are simply making a fool of yourself and wasting everyone’s time.

Indeed, you might explain this, since this is your claim and not one of mine.
My claim is that there is a long term achievement worth 56 AP in GW2 which takes about 33 333 hours of not just logged on time but active play without being away at all. Compared to this achievement HoM requires much less time. Thus HoM should also be worth less than the 56 AP.

But to be honest, I chose the first arbitrary long term (in this case WvW) achievement for comparison. The problem might just be with the Yakslapper (which I came to presume due to the math), or rather most WvW achievements – i.e. All We See, We Own:
Capture 100 000 keeps, which boils down to: walking up to a keep and capture it. Walking from keep to keep takes a few minutes, say 2-3 minutes, prying open outer and inner doors can be done in about another 2-3 minutes, killing the lord is another minute – all assuming you have siege weaponry and no one defends the keep. This makes at least 5-7 minutes per keep, which is rather optimistic on average long term. Assuming 6 minutes per keep lets you capture 10 keeps per hour (which would be a huge feat, btw). 100 000 keeps means 10 000 hours of active walking and capturing, without opposition, and with a trailing group of another server to retake the keeps in the same time you go capturing, so once the immunity buff is gone you can get in and do your capturing again. Those 10 000 hours means more then 3 years of 8 hours every day all year long running in circles capturing keep after keep. And, those 10 000 hours are worth 56 AP, too.

Sadly, there are no other long term achievements available for comparison in GW2 but the WvW ones – and most probably the flaw is there. I just pointed out that the long term achievements (of which GW1 had plenty I concluded) in GW2 are worth much less for much more actual work than the HoM – and if you actually do know what kind of work this was, then you might understand the issue.

On the other hand, points awarded for living story and such, are much too high in comparison to the long term achievements – so maybe Anet should rework the entire achievement point system – and get a competitive PvE system working which includes only GW2 content.

I give up. You have no interest in anything but your opinion and refuse to even try to understand as you admit yourself you have never even looked at the titles. Players like you will never be happy, and your too stubborn and pig headed to see anything but what you want to see. You will never be happy no matter what is done, so there is no sense in even trying to explain as you are incapable of even the most basic understanding. I am not eve going to bother opening this topic again as it is senseless, the points are distributed, it’s over, it’s done, get used to it.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Curuglas.1847:

—Snip—

I give up. You have no interest in anything but your opinion and refuse to even try to understand as you admit yourself you have never even looked at the titles. Players like you will never be happy, and your too stubborn and pig headed to see anything but what you want to see. You will never be happy no matter what is done, so there is no sense in even trying to explain as you are incapable of even the most basic understanding. I am not eve going to bother opening this topic again as it is senseless, the points are distributed, it’s over, it’s done, get used to it.

Agreed. I’ve been saying that for about 10 pages now. He has no interest in reading anything but his own words and typing out his own opinions to things people say rather than looking at facts or logic. Done posting in this thread. Anet knows better than to listen to people like this – especially when their posts contain “IF YOU DONT DO _ I’LL QUIT YOUR GAME.”

danielrjones.8759:

Curuglas, I see you have not posted on my link. Of course with good reason.

Don’t be hasty. I did respond, but sometimes it takes time.

Each stand alone game can be tied together or stand alone. However tied together there was the benefits regarding the hom. Just like GW1and GW2
However, one could buy prophecies and eotn and have the hom. They could not complete the 5050 unless they bought all 3, kinda like you cant get the 500 ap if you don’t own all 4 guild wars games plus expansion.

K, maybe I misunderstood. Since they didn’t say they would give ap for hom in gw2 then that means they shouldn’t?
If that is your argument, then we have to conclude they cannot make any changes to the game that was not mentioned before purchased.

But again, I don’t understand why your are using the ap from WvW as an example if you feel they are not balanced.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

*Ahem

http://www.guildwars.com/products/eyeofthenorth/default.php

Quote directly from the page:
~Forge Your Legacy Now for Guild Wars 2™!

~Your own Hall of Monuments: a personalized trophy chamber where your achievements can become rewards for your Guild Wars 2 characters—only available in Eye of the North

For the sake of ending this argument, I’m quoting myself again. Please visit the link and see for yourself.

Also, I highly recommend buying GW1, EotN, Fractions, and Nightfall. They are GREAT games, and can provide you with bonus points in GW2!

To be fair, they said eotn would give you rewards in gw2. They didn’t say what kind of rewards, so anything is game, including achievement points :p

I also loved how those time limited events were somehow wrapped up into 64 hours. Apparently math is subject to opinion as well?

Mkalafut.1273:

Myself and other have already said at least 20 times that he doesn’t listen to logic.

Oh, you and logic? That’s a new one. Please enlighten me, what “logic” are you trying to conjure?

Mkalafut.1273:

He’s already said he’s quitting the game yet I see him online in-game every day almost all day. Funny how that works. “DO THIS OR I QUIT! RABBLE RABBLE!!11” ….does nothing.

Indeed, you are going on and on about it – to no avail. You seem to think only in black and white, but it won’t fit here, and I doubt you will ever understand.

Mkalafut.1273:

“An advantage to their scores”… Please tell me what having a high achievement point score does for you that provides an advantage.

I feel sorry for you, if you don’t understand that any competition where the rules get changed in favor of a part of the participants (even if they are not actively competing) results in them having an advantage in said competition.

And for those who don’t regard it as a competition or don’t care about it, it should make no difference either way.

Smooth Penguin,
For the sake of ending this argument, I’m quoting myself again. Please visit the link and see for yourself.

Well, I got to 126 on lb about 6 weeks ago then realized to stay there or continue to move up would require more time than I was willing to put into it. It was becoming a job and taking the fun out of the game. Now I have no idea where I’m at on the lb. So I forced myself to stop for 2 weeks to drop and make myself not be so obsessive about it. Since then I spend more time just trolling the forums and whatnot. So I don’t mind the arguments so much.
As far as the 500 ap, yes it was a nice surprise. I think what upset me the most was people saying we didn’t deserve them. I’m really neither here nor there with having them though. Just to hear people complain about us getting them was pretty offensive. I had 6 accounts one had 12k hrs the others only had 1-2k hrs ea though. Needed those others because of Nicholas the traveler lol. I went above and beyond the 50/50 in hopes there would be more than what was posted. Because we have all learned. Anet loves to throw curve balls. imo prophecies/faction/nighfall/eotn/gw2 are all so intertwined as a game goes and the skins/titles/ap in gw2 only shows that.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

I give up. You have no interest in anything but your opinion and refuse to even try to understand as you admit yourself you have never even looked at the titles.

You are quite wrong there. I value other opinions, but I am equally firm in mine unless there are some hard facts that would prove me wrong – but so far no one here brought up any of those. I even tried to reason using math but either you didn’t or didn’t want to understand.

My opinion still is, that HoM achievements should not affect the achievement point score, as this is a competitive value that just got arbitrarily changed. No more, no less.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Players like you will never be happy, and your too stubborn and pig headed to see anything but what you want to see. You will never be happy no matter what is done, so there is no sense in even trying to explain as you are incapable of even the most basic understanding.

Funny, but from my side of the screen you are describing yourself quite accurately.

I gave examples, compared existing values and offered several solutions to the issue at hand. You on the other hand just ignored those inconvenient numbers and just tried to explain what tedious tasks people hat to do in another game to get those titles.
I never questioned, nor depreciated their devotion to earn those titles and I never questioned them being rewarded – I just compared time frames and asked for their rewards to be at least consistent to currently existing long term achievements.

I would rather see those HoM points gone completely, true, but at least I am able to compromise and could settle quietly if they were just put back in their previous, yet more consistent frame of reference.

Furthermore, during this discussion at least I came to the conclusion, maybe the current frame of reference is flawed and the existing long term achievements should be changed into a more reasonable and achievable goal. Maybe all the achievement points should be reevaluated and placed in a reference to difficulty or time requirement?

But you didn’t seem to understand this at all.

Numbers mean nothing if they aren’t accurate. It also doesn’t help if you pick the outliers for the sake of argument.
And yes, WvW achievements, pvp achievements, as well as some others, certainly need some reevaluating.

Also, trying to take away rewards from others because you don’t have them is very unreasonable, and completely one sided. That’s far from a compromise, which implies both parties are getting part of what they want. A simple request for those points not to contribute to leaderboards would be much a more agreeable and sufficient to solution the concerns of both side.

danielrjones.8759:

K, maybe I misunderstood. Since they didn’t say they would give ap for hom in gw2 then that means they shouldn’t?
If that is your argument, then we have to conclude they cannot make any changes to the game that was not mentioned before purchased.

Yes, and no.

Of course they can (and should) make changes to the game. They could (and in my opinion should) have given any additional reward through the HoM achievements without tampering with the score – at least not after the score was in place for months and a competitive ranking was established.

But again, I don’t understand why your are using the ap from WvW as an example if you feel they are not balanced.

I did not find any other GW2 long term achievements (anything about the time required to get the HoM). So I chose the first achievement I could roughly put into numbers. It was not until later along the discussion that I questioned the only frame of reference available for long term achievements within GW2 – not invalidating the numbers, but maybe amending the newly discovered issue to the previous one.

Navzar.2938:

To be fair, they said eotn would give you rewards in gw2. They didn’t say what kind of rewards, so anything is game, including achievement points :p

Yes, you might interpret it this way. But if I read it, the addition “for your Guild Wars 2 characters” sort of implies the reward to be something closer to your character rather than “only” an account based score, doesn’t it?

Navzar.2938:

I also loved how those time limited events were somehow wrapped up into 64 hours. Apparently math is subject to opinion as well?

Not at all. I can make mistakes, too, and indeed the 2*16 is only 32 additional hours, and as I was too quick to post without reviewing the numbers this time somehow I seem to already have had this 32 hours in mind while multiplying it with the 2 again. Thank you for pointing this out.

Although since the erroneous resulting 64 was negligible already in comparison, the correct result of 32 can be regarded as negligible as well, agreed?

azizul.8469:

ah… pride….. yes…. and you do receive reward for being no. 1 ?

No, of course not. Position on leaderboards is completely meaningless.

Curuglas.1847:

They could (and in my opinion should) have given any additional reward through the HoM achievements without tampering with the score – at least not after the score was in place for months and a competitive ranking was established.

It’s not the first time the ranking was tampered with (several changes to dailies and monthlies, retroactive capping to infinite achievements, adding new waypoints, pois and goggle locations, so that future players would need to do more to reach the same achievements as people that managed to do that before the change). It’s also certainly not the last time (lot of achievements need rebalancing, and they have already announced they will be looking at WvW ones). You just have to accept that the leaderboard ranking is not set in stone.
This is just one of the many, many reasons why you shouldn’t be treating leaderboards seriously.

in response to your “yes and no” in the beginning they had a set amount of ap to be acquired. As far as we knew that was not ever going to change, well it seems everytime we have an update they add new ap that people can choose or not, to add to the lb score, and by doing so alters the state of scores.
Imo the 500 ap was a 2 fold thing. one to reward those who spent the time in the previous additions to guild wars and to also to give others the reason to acquire them through the purchase of those additions of course. Possible even a third possibility is to give the completionist a reason to get them. I do feel by adding the 500 was a way for them to say this is guild wars as a whole, and being loyal to the entire product has its benefits.
Also the ap change in no way gave something to the vets that any and everyone can have. Nor did it give them something that makes them a better player. I could see if they did something to buff the stats of the vets how that would be a game changer.

Regarding your response to why you used ap from WvW, the fault I find with that is you choose to use an achievement that (from what it appears from reading your post) you knew was broken. But you choose anyway to use that one to base your argument on time/value ect when doing the math.
Even though I have said some hateful comments in the past, I do believe if I was in your shoes I would be upset. But having dealt with anet and their shenanigans for so long I’ve learn to roll with the punches.

Navzar.2938:

Numbers mean nothing if they aren’t accurate. It also doesn’t help if you pick the outliers for the sake of argument.
And yes, WvW achievements, pvp achievements, as well as some others, certainly need some reevaluating.

You’re right, numbers should be accurate – and if they aren’t I stand easily corrected. And as there was (is) no other frame of reference available concerning long term achievements, it’s hard to tell outliers. I hope we can agree on the reference not being optimal, yet as a current state of the game still valid. On the long run, I hope they will change not only HoM, but WvW and PvP achievements as well

Navzar.2938:

Also, trying to take away rewards from others because you don’t have them is very unreasonable, and completely one sided. That’s far from a compromise, which implies both parties are getting part of what they want.

100% agree. I never asked for the promised rewards to be taken away, I just questioned the kind of reward, which – in my opinion – still should not be achievement points.

Navzar.2938:

A simple request for those points not to contribute to leaderboards would be much a more agreeable and sufficient to solution the concerns of both side.

It might have been – if those points weren’t visible to other players ingame, too, just leading to another layer of competition. Therefore I advertised an even simpler solution: exchange the rewards.

Imagine how the PvP guys feel. Achievement chests come out, and they have a chance to get gold, gems, and even free PvP gear. What’s the problem? You barely get any achievements for PvP. Rank 50 players running around with 2k achievement points. Meanwhile over the last 2 months I didn’t do any Daily PvE achievements, so my AP progress basically stalled. I went out of my way to complete hard to get achievements. I focused on AP for dungeons, JPs, WvW, PvP, and got a legendary, but didn’t always do my daily. Captain Potato Head over here just logged on to do his daily every day and accumulated way more AP than me.

AP system is jut not good, and it’s not something I would even take seriously if it wasn’t for the chests with fancy new loot. Look at this guy with super high achieveos, he must be good! Nope just did his daily every day since beta!

danielrjones.8759:

and by doing so alters the state of scores.

That is true, yet before the changes were made and everyone could then chose to participate or not to participate in getting those points. The difference here is, that up to 480 points were just added retroactively to an existing score – a subtle yet annoying difference.

danielrjones.8759:

and to also to give others the reason to acquire them through the purchase of those additions of course. Possible even a third possibility is to give the completionist a reason to get them.

That might have been a reason (if it were, I’d be disappointed, though). I do like to “complete” the game, yet completely refuse to go back and play an older version game just so the current game could be more “complete”…

danielrjones.8759:

Also the ap change in no way gave something to the vets that any and everyone can have

Like I said before, I do not mind those vets getting stuff, maybe they should get a free precursor of their choice for 50/50, convenient but not better than others and it wouldn’t break any game balance there either.

danielrjones.8759:

But you choose anyway to use that one to base your argument on time/value ect when doing the math.

No, like I said, only in the course of this discussion I came to suspect that maybe the WvW reference – despite it currently being the only long term achievement reference – might be flawed in itself. But, lacking any other long term reference, those numbers still stand true – until either issue is addressed.

danielrjones.8759:

But having dealt with anet and their shenanigans for so long I’ve learn to roll with the punches.

Maybe, just maybe, I will support ANet again sometime. As it is now, I am still quite disappointed by their latest development and – to put it mildly – reluctance of communication on this issue.

Copenhagen.7015:

Imagine how the PvP guys feel.

That’s why I prefer to see APs as a “game completion” indicator. If people “only” play the PvP aspect of the game, they didn’t really complete the game in its fullest.

Copenhagen.7015:

AP system is jut not good, and it’s not something I would even take seriously if it wasn’t for the chests with fancy new loot. Look at this guy with super high achieveos, he must be good! Nope just did his daily every day since beta!

True, but a good PvP player does not mean a good PvE player (and vice-versa), too. And yes, the whole system could get a work-over, that would be fine, too.

Long story short, GW1 and GW2 are not completely separate games.

is it retroactively or a correction, if it is a correction then should not anet be commended for acknowledging it and adjusting accordingly?

Same applies to to when and if they make the corrections to WvW/PvP ap.
if all of a sudden people log on one day and get 100’s more points “retroactively”
then are they in the wrong.
The difference of opinions here is you want any and all ap to only apply to GW2 and only from GW2. Where as those who were loyal to anet feel their loyalty to the Guild Wars “product” in its entirety should have its benefits.
It would appear, anet feel the loyalty to the product as a whole has its benefits.

Astralporing.1957:

It’s not the first time the ranking was tampered with (several changes to dailies and monthlies, retroactive capping to infinite achievements,

This capping was done before introducing the leaderboard ranking, though. It did therefore not change the ranks retroactively at all, since the ranks were not published.

Astralporing.1957:

adding new waypoints, pois and goggle locations, so that future players would need to do more to reach the same achievements as people that managed to do that before the change).

Oh, I am all for it, that if they add new stuff like POI, JP, etc. then those who previously hat a “complete” set must actually get the new point, too to get the complete set back. This would affect everyone and also be equally achievable again.

Astralporing.1957:

It’s also certainly not the last time (lot of achievements need rebalancing, and they have already announced they will be looking at WvW ones). You just have to accept that the leaderboard ranking is not set in stone.

Probably. And maybe, just maybe, this thread might get them aware of the implications of those changes, so the next change might be a lot better than this one here…

Astralporing.1957:

This is just one of the many, many reasons why you shouldn’t be treating leaderboards seriously.

I don’t take it too serious, but it was an interesting aspect of this game and I’d like it to become this once more. And of course there are many possible ways to fix this issue – maybe ANet will surprise us with a solution none of us thought of – hope dies last, they say, don’t they?

danielrjones.8759:

is it retroactively or a correction, if it is a correction then should not anet be commended for acknowledging it and adjusting accordingly?

No. I’m sure some people see it as a correction, but commendation would be totally wrong, since this “correction” came by itself without need. If they overworked the whole system, and within this readjusting changed the HoM points as well, they might not have had such an impact on the ranking as they have now. But unless the ranking would be differentiated by time frames (i.e. Achievement Points July 2013), there are always some who lose something in those changes…

if all of a sudden people log on one day and get 100’s more points “retroactively” then are they in the wrong.

Possibly. It depends on how they change those achievements. There are some ways to do it right and many, many more to do it horribly wrong…

danielrjones.8759:

The difference of opinions here is you want any and all ap to only apply to GW2 and only from GW2.

That is the case, yes. We all bought GW2 and – at least I – want some friendly competition, but on a level playing field.

Just like my bike analogy from earlier, we are all driving motorcycles, but as of a sudden the rules were changed so that last years bicycle races are put into account, too. But, you are free to participate in this years bicycle races and have those points awarded to your current motorcycle standing. All you have to do is to buy the bicycle and learn how to ride it – but be warned , it may be more strenuous than riding your beloved motorcycle. Somehow I don’t want to go back and ride this bicycle…

danielrjones.8759:

Where as those who were loyal to anet feel their loyalty to the Guild Wars “product” in its entirety should have its benefits.
It would appear, anet feel the loyalty to the product as a whole has its benefits.

And surely they shall have those rewards – but, since I get the impression that everyone here defending the HoM points thinks those points to be essentially meaningless, why not opt for some real reward for your chars?