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Posted by: Dreamer.1952

Dreamer.1952

Blix farm showed us that there is a big ammount of ppl that wants Fg farm back. Else Blix farm wouldnt have an impact like this.
Iam not a fan of doing the same thing over and over and over again 8 hours the day thats why i gave up on farming for a fractal bow.
Anet just took something from the community and the community is looking for alternatives.

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Posted by: Brother Grimm.5176

Brother Grimm.5176

A fix is currently being prepared for this issue.

While the behavior (design) of this event was acceptable in the past, changes in the game over time have created an environment around this event that has become increasingly toxic (for the community) due to unintended use/change of mechanics.

Players should not feel that they are in the wrong for completing an event (or event chain), and that is what is happening with this event. The respawn timer for this event will be significantly increased.

Good solution. Thank you for the feedback.

Blix farm showed us that there is a big ammount of ppl that wants Fg farm back. Else Blix farm wouldnt have an impact like this.
Iam not a fan of doing the same thing over and over and over again 8 hours the day thats why i gave up on farming for a fractal bow.
Anet just took something from the community and the community is looking for alternatives.

Oh come on….it’s shows that human nature is greedy and lazy wanting to gravitate the latest way to earn the most for the least amount of work. Making this situation seem like some Nobel Prize winning effort in ingenuity and cooperation is laughable.

Players WANTING massive “Monty Haul” sources in the does not override the potential harm to the game such sources can cause. Anet MUST put the needs of the game over the desires of a segment of the player base.

(BTW, my comments are on some of the general posts I saw above, not specifically the one I quoted….not pointing all that a Dreamer.1952).

We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances

(edited by Brother Grimm.5176)

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Posted by: Rouven.7409

Rouven.7409

(…)
I mean, the fact is, even with this event, the rate of obtaining highly-sought-after loot is not amazing. Getting a lot of champ bags is a crapshoot of dice rolling at the end of the day and the averages aren’t going to be mind-blowing. Something like farming a node, on the other hand, yields the same item every time, guaranteed.

I agree it’s not the same, but I don’t think it matters on a larger scale. Keep in mind that this affects more than just T6 mats. Your personal crapshoot roll does not change yes, but X amount of people are rolling now 100 times more than they should for X amount of time played. I believe if we would have seen large swings then the system in place would not be good enough and someone would not be doing his job.

Unless it’s an intentional time limited event made to shake up the market. All largely speculation of course.

“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”

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Posted by: Duran.3196

Duran.3196

They nerfed Queensdale and Frostgeorge to unplayable. What u guys expect. We stand still. We will just move on even if it is blix. And blix is not an exploit.

If A-Net nerfs everything farmable we will find ways to earn Gold.

Well the fastest way to get ingame money already is: “DONT PLAY THE GAME AND GO WORK INSTEAD”
At a salary of 7€ per hour thats already about 60G per hour, dont know anything in the game that gets even close to that.
Except maybe playing the market if you know what you do, or rather botting the market (I’m pretty sure marketbots exist in this game)

#ELEtism

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Posted by: Labjax.2465

Labjax.2465

I agree it’s not the same, but I don’t think it matters on a larger scale. Keep in mind that this affects more than just T6 mats. Your personal crapshoot roll does not change yes, but X amount of people are rolling now 100 times more than they should for X amount of time played. I believe if we would have seen large swings then the system in place would not be good enough and someone would not be doing his job.

Unless it’s an intentional time limited event made to shake up the market. All largely speculation of course.

Well yeah, I think from an economic standpoint, the major questions would be whether it’s having an unintended impact on the market and whether that impact is a distinctly bad thing, keeping in mind what their gameplay goals are (which we’re obviously not privy to on a detailed level).

Or words to that effect.

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Posted by: Blaeys.3102

Blaeys.3102

Failing an event should never be the preferable outcome.

Kudos to Anet for addressing this.

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Posted by: DomAltares.8651

DomAltares.8651

Failing an event should never be the preferable outcome.

Kudos to Anet for addressing this.

Sadly, they’re only addressing the farm by changing the timer; they are not addressing the root issue, which is that failing just the Blix part of the Blix/Jofast/etc. event chain is vastly more rewarding than completing the whole chain. Such is the case with many events and event chains in Orr and other areas.

I have no issue with farming; it’s how things get acquired in MMOs. But failing a task repeatedly should never be more rewarding than completing it, and is the issue that Anet needs to address. These farm trains should be hyped up to finish an event chain and get back to the start, not fail a single part of it over and over. That’s just bad design.

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Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

I have no issue with farming; it’s how things get acquired in MMOs. But failing a task repeatedly should never be more rewarding than completing it, and is the issue that Anet needs to address. These farm trains should be hyped up to finish an event chain and get back to the start, not fail a single part of it over and over. That’s just bad design.

I think the problem with that particular position in this chain- the one that people are repeatedly failing- is that completing the capture completes the event.

Should be changed so that completing the capture does not complete the event; you have to take the position and then hold it for the timer. That way you still get billions of dudes to kill.

Nalhadia – Kaineng

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Posted by: Duke Blackrose.4981

Duke Blackrose.4981

It’s more of an unintentional troll than an exploit, considering how easy it is to screw over the people that are trying to do it.

And now that you’ve posted about it, it will probably get trolled even more in its last legs of existing before a fix comes firing in, by a crowd of people who somehow believe that two wrongs make a right.

Completing the event isn’t a “wrong.”

Someone just heard that this massive crowd of people was having a difficult time beating this extremely difficult event and decided to lend them a helping hand.

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Posted by: ozmaniandevil.6805

ozmaniandevil.6805

People who think they are white knights…will feel it most when prices go up on the AH :P

PS. Never exploited this. But after reading all the posts here the biggest QQ kids around here are the ppl trolling inside the circle honestly…specially after seeing how highly they think of themselves after doing it. Correct way was to just open a topic….report the bug and that’s it.

Anyway… get ready for prices to go up haha

@Anet u make a game in which everything at endgame depends on how rich u are but most players are poor and/or can’t honestly make enough money (playing normal hours/day) to enjoy the game at end-game without farming like a bot and expect people to be nontoxic when they find a way to work together in order to make a bit of gold.

This all falls on your shoulders and your decision to make everything in this game require more grinding for basically anything, then korean mmos. The only reason i don’t report exploits like these is because of the biblical grindfest this game has become and u basicly deserve your game to be exploited in such ways, atleast until u learn a hard lesson. Not to mention the last Living Story updates which could have easily be renamed into Lumberjack Simulator 2014.

You hit the nail on the head there. So true.

Isle of Janthir – Knights of the Rose (KoR)

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Posted by: SKATE.1394

SKATE.1394

This is why there needs to be a permanent zone like the Mad King Labyrinth that’s nothing but ever respawning mobs where farmers can get their rocks off. Some people like to explore the map, some people like to run dungeons, some people like pvp, and believe it or not there are people that just like to accumulate gold and loot.

Every time a farm becomes popular, whether it be an event loop or a champ train, it’s eventually killed off. Meanwhile, they try and find more and more ways to force people into areas nobody wants to be for things as simple as trait unlocks.

How about offering incentives for branching out into other areas of the game instead of trying to dictate everything for the player. Put up a weekly rotation that offers 50% extra karma for event completion, 50% bonus XP for kills, 33% extra gathering chance, 20% magic find boost, etc. in the lesser visited zones like Timberline Falls.

Give people a reason to WANT to be somewhere other than Cursed Shore, instead of inconvenient ways to make them HAVE to be there just for a trait unlock, or to charge yet another backpiece req.

(edited by SKATE.1394)

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Posted by: Labjax.2465

Labjax.2465

It’s more of an unintentional troll than an exploit, considering how easy it is to screw over the people that are trying to do it.

And now that you’ve posted about it, it will probably get trolled even more in its last legs of existing before a fix comes firing in, by a crowd of people who somehow believe that two wrongs make a right.

Completing the event isn’t a “wrong.”

Someone just heard that this massive crowd of people was having a difficult time beating this extremely difficult event and decided to lend them a helping hand.

I assume you’re being tongue-in-cheek, but I actually wasn’t calling the completion a “wrong” – I was saying that in reference to failing on purpose (wrong #1) and completing it to grief people (wrong #2).

Or words to that effect.

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Posted by: Traveller.7496

Traveller.7496

This is interesting because (devil’s advocate) I’ve always thought that deliberately going out of your way to troll others – in this case, completing these events – has always been much worse than some name-calling. That happens in general PVE, dungeons, WvW, you name it. Are these all toxic environments that should be abolished?

The fact is that you guys at ANet still didn’t learn from your mistakes and made failing the event more worthwhile than completing it. Just fix the rewards for event completion instead of nerfing the event timer. Then we could all happily farm together without “toxic environment” or trolling event completion.

It was the exact same discussion about the Queensdale champ train, though. Someone killed a champ in the wrong spot, some people got mad, life goes on. But then others started deliberately killing them, even going as far as organizing these trollings on TS.

Now I ask you, which actually provides a toxic environment, some name-calling in an MMO or a deliberate, organized attempt to troll other players?

(disclaimer: I don’t condone nasty insults, but if you did these things deliberately, then you have deserved it.)

(edited by Traveller.7496)

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Posted by: Lytalm.5673

Lytalm.5673

I don’t mind farming (in fact I do it quite often and I have my favorite spots in Orr), but that event was really toxic. I tried few runs of it and never bothered returning. You should not be obligated to fail something specificly to please a farming group. This change is welcomed from my point of view.

Les Pirates du Styx [xQcx]
Fort Aspenwood

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Posted by: Duke Blackrose.4981

Duke Blackrose.4981

@Anet u make a game in which everything at endgame depends on how rich u are but most players are poor and/or can’t honestly make enough money (playing normal hours/day) to enjoy the game at end-game without farming like a bot and expect people to be nontoxic when they find a way to work together in order to make a bit of gold.

This all falls on your shoulders and your decision to make everything in this game require more grinding for basically anything, then korean mmos. The only reason i don’t report exploits like these is because of the biblical grindfest this game has become and u basicly deserve your game to be exploited in such ways, atleast until u learn a hard lesson. Not to mention the last Living Story updates which could have easily be renamed into Lumberjack Simulator 2014.

Oh please. This game has one of the lowest grind requisites of any MMO on the market.

I’ll grant that this statement is less true for Ascended Gear (which isn’t that much better than exotic gear), but completing a set of it can be done in fairly short order on a normal play schedule with wise management of one’s gold and crafting materials. What they need to work on here is normalization. Light armor characters shouldn’t be paying a premium for the same gear as everyone else.

You cannot factor in optional aesthetics when considering grind. Why? Because it’s subjective.

Endgame for one player could be a simple suit of crafted armor with a kymswarden and matching dyes. There total costs would be about 30-50g, which is chump change. Let’s just say that this same player decides to slowly upgrade into Ascended gear. That’s a few hundred gold done piece-by-piece.

Endgame for another player could be a ludicrous combination of an Eternity + Juggernaut, special dyes, and a full set of t3 armor transmuted over ascended gear.

Neither of these players looks objectively better. In fact, some might say that the latter, more expensive look is played out and gaudy with so many glow effects and particles that the character loses their identity.

That’s the nature of a mostly-aesthetic endgame. There is such a wide variance in optional costs that there cannot be a perfectly-scaled economy. Either the low end is going to make too much gold and reach their goals quickly and in excess in order to appease the high end (in turn making the high end goals too easy), or the high-end is going to slowed down significantly in order to make gold-gain for the low-and-medium-end players more balanced.

And there is nothing wrong with certain aesthetics (such as legendaries) being expensive. The community has shown that these weapons are far from exclusive; in fact, they are common to the point of being played out.


But let’s move on to why destroying these farm spots is reasonable.

Every destroyed farming spot, with the exception of the old Orr karma train, is one that naturally spawns community toxicity.

FG and Queensdale (mostly Queensdale) caused rage when players skipped the train. Players were well within their rights to do so and may have even done so unintentionally, particularly in the case of the Queens train, which was ruining a low-level zone and giving new players a bad first impression of the game and its community.

Elemental farm and Blix farm are two cases of the same issue – and in the same zone, no less. These are the worst forms of toxic community driven content. Failure is the desired outcome. Winning and experiencing the chain as intended is a detriment to the farmers and rage insues. Whether an individual broke the farm intentionally or not is irrelevant – all they’ve done is play content the way it was meant to be played. If another player’s experience can be ruined by PROPERLY playing the game, then it is time for that part of the game to be revised.

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Posted by: Kysin.6349

Kysin.6349

And it turned out (most times, not every time) that the guys just didn’t know how the farm worked.

I’ll be glad to see it go personally.

Every run I’ve done has a few people giving direction, explaining how it works, and why it’s beneficial to let the event fail. It’s simple: 1. Stack on Blix, spawn champs through scaling. 2. Stay in tunnel, use reflects. 3. Keep elites alive, never let the circle go empty, focus champs. Kill mobs when they reach the group.

Pretty easy.

I’m sure you were also glad to see the other trains go, and every other means of earning gold aside from TP flipping, farming the same dungeons on repeat 2 years in, and the world boss circuit.

#BuyGems!

Tinfoil hat ftw, no I was sad to see the ember farm go (but I understood it needed to). It was way less toxic and about 5x more rewarding, it also changed the economy way more than blix farm. I was also bummed when they extended the timer for plinx/shelt/penit. Why don’t you start “TP flipping” since you seem to know much more about it than everyone else, haha.

Co-leader of Knights of Eminence[Sir] – PvX
Reap The Weak[Reap] – WvW 5-man havok
-Blackgate

(edited by Kysin.6349)

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Posted by: Raven.9603

Raven.9603

lol @ all the farmers who think theyre entitled to exploit the game and that anyone who interferes is just a self righteous troll.

SBI | Oceans | Ranger – Thief – Ele – Eng – Nec – Guard – Rev
Celestial Avatar is like an old man: Takes forever to get up and is spent in 4 seconds

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Posted by: Traveller.7496

Traveller.7496

If another player’s experience can be ruined by PROPERLY playing the game, then it is time for that part of the game to be revised.

I think this is the main issue here.

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Posted by: Bloodstealer.5978

Bloodstealer.5978

Failing an event should never be the preferable outcome.

Kudos to Anet for addressing this.

Sadly, they’re only addressing the farm by changing the timer; they are not addressing the root issue, which is that failing just the Blix part of the Blix/Jofast/etc. event chain is vastly more rewarding than completing the whole chain. Such is the case with many events and event chains in Orr and other areas.

I have no issue with farming; it’s how things get acquired in MMOs. But failing a task repeatedly should never be more rewarding than completing it, and is the issue that Anet needs to address. These farm trains should be hyped up to finish an event chain and get back to the start, not fail a single part of it over and over. That’s just bad design.

Agree Dom.. the event chain itself needs a rework I don’t think anyone really has been arguing that, but exploiting a design fail isn’t the right thing to do either.

What is meant to be in game is the opportunity to farm the events and that itself has always been there and legitimately so. As far as I can see ANET have purposely put in place a whole range of champ rotations across the higher level maps which cater for this very style of gameplay and community interaction.. that has worked without flaw or toxicity, especially since the rotations were fixed on Frosty and the Queensdale starter map champ toxicity removed.

Orr has been a busy place for all manner of play style for some time.. the champ rotations work well, with the added spice of a temple chain or Arah chain being thrown in on their timers. Aside from that there are a vast range of events that are triggering as well, there was never a need to exploit one chain repeatedly all in the name of loot, cos its always been available.
As I said previously, before a certain toxic poster got upset cos I never agreed with his ideal and got my post removed… the toxicity, abuse and general lifelessness of Orr except around Penitent/Shelter, never existed until 3-4 weeks ago…. speaks volumes to me.

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Posted by: ixiduffixi.6384

ixiduffixi.6384

Meh, all the farmers knew it was going to happen. “Toxic” community or not, it happens to every farm. I agree that some people go off the deepend about others completing the event. They have every right to complete it for legitimate reasons. However, there was rarely a case of anyone completing it just to complete it. I’m not defending one side or the other, but no one was ever at those events other than to farm, otherwise they would still be completed just whenever a small group of players felt like it.

That’s nonsense.

If I go out there right now with the intention to complete it with my friends, I’d bet you gold at least one person will have a conniption about it.

Likely several, if not the whole map. Try and say that isn’t true. Show me how convincing you can be to sell that pile.

You actually only proved my point. Were you going there before the farm? Did you regularly do the event for the sake of doing it? It doesn’t sound like you did which is my point. It was an event nobody had any desire to complete until its suddenly be biggest spot on the map. Now the ones who do act like it’s the only thing they live for. Also, if you read further in my comment, you’ll notice that I don’t disagree that anyone with the honest desire to finish it has the right to. My point is that the ones who are so insistent on doing it now, are very much trolling. There have only been a handful of those who honestly did not know what was going on or were there just to complete for completion’s sake.

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Posted by: Bloodstealer.5978

Bloodstealer.5978

— SNIP —

Oh please. This game has one of the lowest grind requisites of any MMO on the market.

I’ll grant that this statement is less true for Ascended Gear (which isn’t that much better than exotic gear), but completing a set of it can be done in fairly short order on a normal play schedule with wise management of one’s gold and crafting materials. What they need to work on here is normalization. Light armor characters shouldn’t be paying a premium for the same gear as everyone else.

You cannot factor in optional aesthetics when considering grind. Why? Because it’s subjective.

Endgame for one player could be a simple suit of crafted armor with a kymswarden and matching dyes. There total costs would be about 30-50g, which is chump change. Let’s just say that this same player decides to slowly upgrade into Ascended gear. That’s a few hundred gold done piece-by-piece.

Endgame for another player could be a ludicrous combination of an Eternity + Juggernaut, special dyes, and a full set of t3 armor transmuted over ascended gear.

Neither of these players looks objectively better. In fact, some might say that the latter, more expensive look is played out and gaudy with so many glow effects and particles that the character loses their identity.

That’s the nature of a mostly-aesthetic endgame. There is such a wide variance in optional costs that there cannot be a perfectly-scaled economy. Either the low end is going to make too much gold and reach their goals quickly and in excess in order to appease the high end (in turn making the high end goals too easy), or the high-end is going to slowed down significantly in order to make gold-gain for the low-and-medium-end players more balanced.

And there is nothing wrong with certain aesthetics (such as legendaries) being expensive. The community has shown that these weapons are far from exclusive; in fact, they are common to the point of being played out.


But let’s move on to why destroying these farm spots is reasonable.

Every destroyed farming spot, with the exception of the old Orr karma train, is one that naturally spawns community toxicity.

FG and Queensdale (mostly Queensdale) caused rage when players skipped the train. Players were well within their rights to do so and may have even done so unintentionally, particularly in the case of the Queens train, which was ruining a low-level zone and giving new players a bad first impression of the game and its community.

Elemental farm and Blix farm are two cases of the same issue – and in the same zone, no less. These are the worst forms of toxic community driven content. Failure is the desired outcome. Winning and experiencing the chain as intended is a detriment to the farmers and rage insues. Whether an individual broke the farm intentionally or not is irrelevant – all they’ve done is play content the way it was meant to be played. If another player’s experience can be ruined by PROPERLY playing the game, then it is time for that part of the game to be revised.

This poster.. absolutely gets it..

When playing a game the way its intended causes the abuse of others who are hell bent on epxploiting it.. there is something very wrong and thankfully its being adjusted.

A Legendary is supposed to take a player a long time, it was supposed be the pinnacle in a players achievement and that is meant to take time, otherwise what is the carrot to keep us coming back. Ascended is the same thing albeit more of a halfway house to appease the players wanting gear/stat advancement and those wanting cosmetic advancement in both cases it is meant to take longer to get to.. otherwise lets just have a pay2win trading post where we can just purchase everything and anything and leave nothing in game to work towards… then we can sit back and read all the posts about the game is dead, this game lacks challenge, im bored la lal la…

GW2 was going to be different, a get away from extensive, endless gear grinds that would forever change and adjust to keep us all grinding just to stay competitive…
But if players can just simply exploit events and get all they desire in a few weeks every time something is introduced, then the game will have a short shelf life, aside from the fact players will have more coin in game than can be realistically synced back out of the game without drastically nerfing a lot of other things to balance before players simply have no need to buy gems for real cash.. how then does ANET bring real hard currency into the coffers to allow the game to grow, mature etc… it wont and then we will see it slide into maintenance mode and boredom will soon beset us all, farmers, TP flippers, exploiters, gear grinders, dungeon runners, WvW , PvP.. everything grinds to a halt cos the game isn’t making money to support growth.

(edited by Bloodstealer.5978)

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Posted by: cesmode.4257

cesmode.4257

A fix is currently being prepared for this issue.

While the behavior (design) of this event was acceptable in the past, changes in the game over time have created an environment around this event that has become increasingly toxic (for the community) due to unintended use/change of mechanics.

Players should not feel that they are in the wrong for completing an event (or event chain), and that is what is happening with this event. The respawn timer for this event will be significantly increased.

Do you think increasing the respawn timer will fix something that is an issue at the core of your game? The sheer fact that you have open world content/events that spit out more monsters depending on the amount of people is a system that is doomed to failure. Open world content when there is more than a dozen people around becomes nothing but whack-a-mole. No strategy, no mechanics, no fear of death. And when these endless hordes of monsters die, they drop stuff for cash. How do you expect anything less than this from the playerbase?

Suggestion: Instead of scaling up the event via # of monsters, keep the same # of monsters, but boost their “armor” or something so that it takes longer to kill.

Other than that, I dont think theres going to be an end to scaling up events to farm for cash given the very nature of the system.

Karma is as abundant as air, and as useless as the Kardashians.

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Posted by: Bloodstealer.5978

Bloodstealer.5978

Meh, all the farmers knew it was going to happen. “Toxic” community or not, it happens to every farm. I agree that some people go off the deepend about others completing the event. They have every right to complete it for legitimate reasons. However, there was rarely a case of anyone completing it just to complete it. I’m not defending one side or the other, but no one was ever at those events other than to farm, otherwise they would still be completed just whenever a small group of players felt like it.

That’s nonsense.

If I go out there right now with the intention to complete it with my friends, I’d bet you gold at least one person will have a conniption about it.

Likely several, if not the whole map. Try and say that isn’t true. Show me how convincing you can be to sell that pile.

You actually only proved my point. Were you going there before the farm? Did you regularly do the event for the sake of doing it? It doesn’t sound like you did which is my point. It was an event nobody had any desire to complete until its suddenly be biggest spot on the map. Now the ones who do act like it’s the only thing they live for. Also, if you read further in my comment, you’ll notice that I don’t disagree that anyone with the honest desire to finish it has the right to. My point is that the ones who are so insistent on doing it now, are very much trolling. There have only been a handful of those who honestly did not know what was going on or were there just to complete for completion’s sake.

Sorry disagree.

The Penitent/Blix/Shelter/Jofast chain has always been popular.. scaling those events to spawn champs has always been a good source of loot, without the incessant need to exploit it to fail/reset endlessly.
Add to that when it was done you were ready to jump straight into the next event or chain that was ready or close to being ready.. add to that the constant rotation of champs provided to us across the map..

Explain where in all of this was there never enough to do or farm legitimately… especially if we can all band together in one of those “community groups” to scale the events up that apparently the “trolls” are disrupting… there is no argument against it.. Orr is a busy map with plenty of farming opportunity without the need to exploit one event chains mechanics.

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Posted by: Spicyhash.7605

Spicyhash.7605

Blix farm showed us that there is a big ammount of ppl that wants Fg farm back.

No, it shows us that loot in this game is a joke and acquiring a decent amount of gold isn’t possible without doing things like brainless map trains, blix exploit, and other event-fail exploits. People are always going to find a new way to repeatedly farm something until this ridiculous loot RNG is fixed

CD

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Posted by: Blaeys.3102

Blaeys.3102

Personally, I wouldnt mind if they took all champion bags out of the game and replaced them with “event bags” that dropped whenever we completed (successfully) a dynamic event (and scaled in value based on the difficulty of the dynamic event).

This would create a real incentive to successfully complete all events. They could potentially add the same incentive they do for rare creatures and XP – bags gradually become more valuable for events that havent been attempted in a long time.

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Posted by: Duke Blackrose.4981

Duke Blackrose.4981

This poster.. absolutely gets it..

When playing a game the way its intended causes the abuse of others who are hell bent on epxploiting it.. there is something very wrong and thankfully its being adjusted.

A Legendary is supposed to take a player a long time, it was supposed be the pinnacle in a players achievement and that is meant to take time, otherwise what is the carrot to keep us coming back. Ascended is the same thing albeit more of a halfway house to appease the players wanting gear/stat advancement and those wanting cosmetic advancement in both cases it is meant to take longer to get to.. otherwise lets just have a pay2win trading post where we can just purchase everything and anything and leave nothing in game to work towards… then we can sit back and read all the posts about the game is dead, this game lacks challenge, im bored la lal la…

GW2 was going to be different, a get away from extensive, endless gear grinds that would forever change and adjust to keep us all grinding just to stay competitive…
But if players can just simply exploit events and get all they desire in a few weeks every time something is introduced, then the game will have a short shelf life, aside from the fact players will have more coin in game than can be realistically synced back out of the game without drastically nerfing a lot of other things to balance before players simply have no need to buy gems for real cash.. how then does ANET bring real hard currency into the coffers to allow the game to grow, mature etc… it wont and then we will see it slide into maintenance mode and boredom will soon beset us all, farmers, TP flippers, exploiters, gear grinders, dungeon runners, WvW , PvP.. everything grinds to a halt cos the game isn’t making money to support growth.

I appreciate the support, though I would make an addendum.

Anet shot themselves in the foot with Ascended Gear by turning an optional grind into a stat grind. This raised the minimum cost to achieve max performance by about 10 times its original value. This, mind you, in a game that was intended to be a play-your-way horizontal progression title.

The stat-progression crowd should never have been appeased. They weren’t the market for the game and they are a crowd that tends to blow through content and demand more. There can be no compromise. Ascended Gear was not a compromise – it was a push towards vertical progression that cannot be taken back without extreme caution and which cannot appease the gear-grinders indefinitely – they will expect another tier or a raise in the level cap. Otherwise they are no longer progressing.

No, Guild Wars 2 should have kept to its banner. It had a loyal community and it had a unique foot in a market dominated by vertical titles. It had its recipe for success and needed to polish it.

The solution to player-split and farm-oriented play is map-exclusive aesthetics. If every map had them – like Dry Top does – the playerbase would spread out to obtain their desired rewards.

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Posted by: One Prarie Outpost.4860

One Prarie Outpost.4860

If another player’s experience can be ruined by PROPERLY playing the game, then it is time for that part of the game to be revised.

I’m sorry to say that, in my opinion this is the most ridiculous comment that could be made.

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Posted by: Morsus.5106

Morsus.5106

Cursed Shore 50+ people intentionally failing this event so they can wow farm it, and raging like animals at people who want to finish it…

Claims of 100+gold and hour luring more people to it all the time.

None of the other events are doable because of the amount of jerks farming this thing.
Not to mention it screws up people who want to actually finish the event so they can do the next one.

I hate to take the side of the farmers, but if “50+ people” want to do something and you come along and ruin it for them you’re doing the exact same thing they’re doing (preventing someone else from doing what they want).

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Posted by: Dreamer.1952

Dreamer.1952

The Penitent/Blix/Shelter/Jofast chain has always been popular.. scaling those events to spawn champs has always been a good source of loot, without the incessant need to exploit it to fail/reset endlessly.

To go the event pattern you mentioned all spots needs to be contested beforehand. Doesnt this show us that ppl intent to loose all the defence on that chain points to even get the chain? Example Blix is showing up after you loose shelter event.
Are you not beeing paradox. So you were using also an “exploit”?

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Posted by: Sariel V.7024

Sariel V.7024

Farmers trying to dictate how to play the game, 99.9% of the time directly against how it was designed.

Why am I not surprised.

It’s even complete with calling anyone not following the flock of ducks a troll.

Reversing the roles doesn’t help anyones arguments either. Repeatedly forcing an event to failure would be both against the spirit of the game and griefing. Unlike getting mad someone isn’t following the social constructs.

Indeed. It’s a fine example of the entitled bullying detractors into submission. Kinda how like gangs try to silence onlookers when they’re busy committing crimes they believe they should get away with. “It ain’t your business,” is the usual refrain, and I’m sure these farmers would get violent with anyone disrupting their sure thing, if only they could.

tvtropes.org has a great page on troll logic. Somehow, the people who are exploiting this event are trying to paint themselves as the kittening heroes in this scenario, while anyone actually doing things as intended are idiots, evil, disruptors, the actual problem. Ah. Yeah. That works. Great job guys.

takes a drink

Half the people here make me sick.

(edited by Sariel V.7024)

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Posted by: Duke Blackrose.4981

Duke Blackrose.4981

If another player’s experience can be ruined by PROPERLY playing the game, then it is time for that part of the game to be revised.

I’m sorry to say that, in my opinion this is the most ridiculous comment that could be made.

I’m sorry to say that, but that may be the most ridiculous opinion that can be had. And I don’t even need to express that as an opinion, because it’s sheer fact.

If a game isn’t working as intended and the most efficient way to obtain money is to fail, then the design isn’t working and needs to be revised. That isn’t an opinion. That’s design common sense.

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Posted by: Dreamer.1952

Dreamer.1952

Farmers trying to dictate how to play the game, 99.9% of the time directly against how it was designed.

Why am I not surprised.

It’s even complete with calling anyone not following the flock of ducks a troll.

Reversing the roles doesn’t help anyones arguments either. Repeatedly forcing an event to failure would be both against the spirit of the game and griefing. Unlike getting mad someone isn’t following the social constructs.

Indeed. It’s a fine example of the entitled bullying detractors into submission. Kinda how like gangs try to silence onlookers when they’re busy committing crimes they believe they should get away with. “It ain’t your business,” is the usual refrain, and I’m sure these farmers would get violent with anyone disrupting their sure thing, if only they could.

takes a drink

Half the people here make me sick.

GvG in OS is then also and exploit because the way the wvw guilds do it is not intended from the designers. And if one outsider is trolling the GvG matches is ok for you.
WvW Guilds have even a third party webside for rating.
And dont tell me this has nothing with the economy. Ascended gears are very important there. 2 even guilds one with exotic and one with ascended gear who do you think will win. And gaining ascended gear always effects the TP. And there not a few guilds that are doing GvG.
And there are lots of other examples for not intended play style like Terrormancers in Eotm or others.

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Posted by: cesmode.4257

cesmode.4257

Did no one read my response? This sort of behavior will never stop in a game like this. Where content is not relegated to question marks, but open world dynamic content completably by any passerby, this will always happen. If all arenanet can do to make things “difficult” when more players come into the area is to throw more mobs at them, what the heck do you expect?

Its not necessarily a flaw in the person. Its a flaw in the system. Your content is designed to be played in open space with anyone coming and going. Your content is then designed to scale and increase the volume of mobs with the increased volume of players. You don’t have to be Einstein to see the problem here.

Karma is as abundant as air, and as useless as the Kardashians.

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Posted by: One Prarie Outpost.4860

One Prarie Outpost.4860

If another player’s experience can be ruined by PROPERLY playing the game, then it is time for that part of the game to be revised.

I’m sorry to say that, in my opinion this is the most ridiculous comment that could be made.

I’m sorry to say that, but that may be the most ridiculous opinion that can be had. And I don’t even need to express that as an opinion, because it’s sheer fact.

If a game isn’t working as intended and the most efficient way to obtain money is to fail, then the design isn’t working and needs to be revised. That isn’t an opinion. That’s design common sense.

If players doing it wrong and exploiting the game is hampered or they are made unhappy by the actions of players playing the game correctly and not exploiting the game, then changing the game for the enjoyment of the players doing it wrong is not the way to correct this.

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Posted by: Duke Blackrose.4981

Duke Blackrose.4981

Did no one read my response? This sort of behavior will never stop in a game like this. Where content is not relegated to question marks, but open world dynamic content completably by any passerby, this will always happen. If all arenanet can do to make things “difficult” when more players come into the area is to throw more mobs at them, what the heck do you expect?

Its not necessarily a flaw in the person. Its a flaw in the system. Your content is designed to be played in open space with anyone coming and going. Your content is then designed to scale and increase the volume of mobs with the increased volume of players. You don’t have to be Einstein to see the problem here.

I agree that it is an underlying problem with the system, but the system is in-itself well-founded and good.

The solution is a simple (but not easy) one. Punish clusters where not intended. Do not scale up mobs to champion level, but rather put the precise number of champion mobs in events that are intended to have them. Do not add more mobs, but increase the power of Veterans based on number of players, even if it means bringing them up to champ-level damage (but not status).

Add in split-event objectives like those at Dry Top and the 3-prong invasion of Balth.

Add in map-exclusive rewards that encourage players to hunt for the ones that they want.

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Posted by: Duke Blackrose.4981

Duke Blackrose.4981

If another player’s experience can be ruined by PROPERLY playing the game, then it is time for that part of the game to be revised.

I’m sorry to say that, in my opinion this is the most ridiculous comment that could be made.

I’m sorry to say that, but that may be the most ridiculous opinion that can be had. And I don’t even need to express that as an opinion, because it’s sheer fact.

If a game isn’t working as intended and the most efficient way to obtain money is to fail, then the design isn’t working and needs to be revised. That isn’t an opinion. That’s design common sense.

If players doing it wrong and exploiting the game is hampered or they are made unhappy by the actions of players playing the game correctly and not exploiting the game, then changing the game for the enjoyment of the players doing it wrong is not the way to correct this.

That logic would work, if farmers were made happy by the content rather than the rewards.

But let’s get real here. It’s the rewards. Fix the content. Make good content rewarding. Badabing, badaboom, done. No more twisting ill-founded logic to justify poor design.

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Posted by: mpKing.1420

mpKing.1420

Community Toxicity
Its an easy scapegoat to point your finger at while Anet already nerfed all loot from story line instances, an area which would have zero toxicity cause you can control whom joins you. Just another ploy to push material prices up on highly desirable items making buying gems more worth while than playing content. You force these interactions with design then complain when the problem becomes evident.

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Posted by: cesmode.4257

cesmode.4257

Did no one read my response? This sort of behavior will never stop in a game like this. Where content is not relegated to question marks, but open world dynamic content completably by any passerby, this will always happen. If all arenanet can do to make things “difficult” when more players come into the area is to throw more mobs at them, what the heck do you expect?

Its not necessarily a flaw in the person. Its a flaw in the system. Your content is designed to be played in open space with anyone coming and going. Your content is then designed to scale and increase the volume of mobs with the increased volume of players. You don’t have to be Einstein to see the problem here.

I agree that it is an underlying problem with the system, but the system is in-itself well-founded and good.

The solution is a simple (but not easy) one. Punish clusters where not intended. Do not scale up mobs to champion level, but rather put the precise number of champion mobs in events that are intended to have them. Do not add more mobs, but increase the power of Veterans based on number of players, even if it means bringing them up to champ-level damage (but not status).

Add in split-event objectives like those at Dry Top and the 3-prong invasion of Balth.

Add in map-exclusive rewards that encourage players to hunt for the ones that they want.

Capping champs is a good start but then makes content even more trivial than it already is.

Karma is as abundant as air, and as useless as the Kardashians.

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Posted by: Duke Blackrose.4981

Duke Blackrose.4981

Did no one read my response? This sort of behavior will never stop in a game like this. Where content is not relegated to question marks, but open world dynamic content completably by any passerby, this will always happen. If all arenanet can do to make things “difficult” when more players come into the area is to throw more mobs at them, what the heck do you expect?

Its not necessarily a flaw in the person. Its a flaw in the system. Your content is designed to be played in open space with anyone coming and going. Your content is then designed to scale and increase the volume of mobs with the increased volume of players. You don’t have to be Einstein to see the problem here.

I agree that it is an underlying problem with the system, but the system is in-itself well-founded and good.

The solution is a simple (but not easy) one. Punish clusters where not intended. Do not scale up mobs to champion level, but rather put the precise number of champion mobs in events that are intended to have them. Do not add more mobs, but increase the power of Veterans based on number of players, even if it means bringing them up to champ-level damage (but not status).

Add in split-event objectives like those at Dry Top and the 3-prong invasion of Balth.

Add in map-exclusive rewards that encourage players to hunt for the ones that they want.

Capping champs is a good start but then makes content even more trivial than it already is.

Content is trivial because of large player clusters. Champs don’t fix that or address it in any way.

Breaking clusters creates challenge and encourages exploration.

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Posted by: cesmode.4257

cesmode.4257

Overall, arenanet needs to break up zergs. They’ve been nothing but a constant thorn in the game’s side. The game is 2 years old, and we are still facing the same old problems of intentionally failing events because we simply want to farm champs.

I think I read that Chris Whiteside LIKES zergs. Well buddy, your zergs and their problems are still here. And your zergs are fostering mindless content. Mashing 1 key and tagging everything in site is not engaging. I don’t know how anyone can find this fun.

Karma is as abundant as air, and as useless as the Kardashians.

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Posted by: Letifer.4360

Letifer.4360

Wrong approach to the whole situation, imo. They should just ban the players who literally abuse failure states of events.

This is one of the most ignorant comments I have seen here, if they ban this players the game pure and simply dies in the same day, we aren’t talking about 1 or 2 players here…

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Posted by: Deaths.9165

Deaths.9165

We had a nice farming spot on a nice server. Desolation Forstgeorge Champ hunt. But No A-Net needs to nerf it.

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Posted by: Vol.7601

Vol.7601

While technically true it can be 100g/h, the majority of the time it’s not going to be like that because of people who complete the event. And when you complete the event, it will not be available to spawn for the next 30-45 mins

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Posted by: Faereilos.5106

Faereilos.5106

Is it true that its 100g per hour, that’s crazy, I don’t think Europeans know about this exploit yet, I’ve asked in cursed shore a few times about the blix farm at peak times and nobody knew what I was talking about. Although the whole megaserver thing has really messed with the european server anyway, Communication has become way too primitive to even organize an effective farm.

Some guy from EU posted a video about Blix on Reddit. That’s how the majority of NA found out about it. As for profits…Lmao it is nowhere near that. I make 10g an hour at most (not selling t6 mats) IF the farm even lasts that long. Granted my MF is pretty low, but you get the idea. There are players that can’t tag anything so they make even less.

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Posted by: Dreamer.1952

Dreamer.1952

If players doing it wrong and exploiting the game is hampered or they are made unhappy by the actions of players playing the game correctly and not exploiting the game

Thats a definition of a selfjustice player that i was waiting for. Now back to my example.
A rated GvG 15vs15 in Os or souths camp wich is not intended from designers is taking place and a Troll is messing it up because he is playing the game correctly. He wants to play with the gvg because its open world. He is following the guilds to other spots and still trolling there. Is that Ok?
This happened really. A full guild was trolling with 2 gvg guilds. Is that Ok because GvG is not intended from the designers?

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Posted by: Vol.7601

Vol.7601

If players doing it wrong and exploiting the game is hampered or they are made unhappy by the actions of players playing the game correctly and not exploiting the game

Thats a definition of a selfjustice player that i was waiting for. Now back to my example.
A rated GvG 15vs15 in Os or souths camp wich is not intended from designers is taking place and a Troll is messing it up because he is playing the game correctly. He wants to play with the gvg because its open world. He is following the guilds to other spots and still trolling there. Is that Ok?
This happened really. A full guild was trolling with 2 gvg guilds. Is that Ok because GvG is not intended from the designers?

The ‘troll’ is doing nothing wrong. Yeah he’s trolling in the sense that he’s disrupting the planned activities there but I strongly doubt he would be punished as WvW activities were intended everywhere on that map. Your friends may hate it, and you’re certainly justified, but there really isn’t much you can do except work together and beat back the trolls.

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Posted by: Dreamer.1952

Dreamer.1952

While the trait cap was implemented you needed to kill Lyssa to get the trait. There you need to fail the defence of Lyssa to even gain the possibility of trait gain. Is that a exploit.
Ppl were trolling with lyssa defence. They just succeded it because its an open game and the designers wants us to defend.

I really dont get your point of exploits.
The only thing that bouthers me on Blix farm is that it took a range where alote of ppl are farming it. And that shows us a lack of FG like farm spots.

Edit:
Same problem was with Grenths. The Grenths defence didnt give the trait pre patch. Players needed to fail the event to gain the Trait. Now the trolling started till the patch came. Was the Grenths fail an exploit?

(edited by Dreamer.1952)

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Posted by: ozmaniandevil.6805

ozmaniandevil.6805

Yes, I notice no one commented on my fact that ANet DOES design things to be failed, so 99% of arguments here are out the window. I’m glad at least one other person sees the problem here.

Isle of Janthir – Knights of the Rose (KoR)

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Posted by: blakdoxa.7520

blakdoxa.7520

All the trolls, white knights and farm haters and many me sick in this thread….

Motivations for failing the event are the champ loot boxes because anyone who is anyone playing Guild Wars 2 knows the rewards for completing events are paltry .

Just with any player organized event direction will be given so problems don’t arise. This is a social game correct? Having players work together for linear goal is fine.

Although, players organizing to fail events just to obtain rewards is an issue in itself. Why aren’t players rewarded for completing the events, like the devs intended? Really, there’s no intrinsic reward in events and extrinsic rewards, such as exp, silver and karma, are garbage.

Becoming a TP baron, or a “valued anet customer,” may not be feasible options or even options players would want to take. Farming should be viable means of making money.

Really, trolls or unsocial players (god forbid antisocial) go far and out of the way to mess things up without understanding anything. Having to pin themselves to group to disrupt the event when there are a plethora of event across Orr or within the Cursed Shores itself.

/rant

I just have to say dynamic events really ended up being a crutch in hindsight…

Yes, I notice no one commented on my fact that ANet DOES design things to be failed, so 99% of arguments here are out the window. I’m glad at least one other person sees the problem here.

kitten , man that’s absolutely right. Events were designed to succeed and fail.
You deserve a +10000000000 medal.

Devona’s Rest

(edited by blakdoxa.7520)

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Posted by: Vodyara.4608

Vodyara.4608

The ones crying about the Blix “exploit” are the arrogant rich players who want to keep their dominance. They have exploited enough previous events to last them for years, but god forbid the little man tries to come close.

Just pathetic nerds thinking purposely finishing the event, leaving over a hundred players waiting for another one, is somehow related to “justice”.