Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

Galen Grey.4709:

Vayne.8563:

Coffee.7058:

Galen Grey.4709:

I am leveling artificer up as well.

But really its not so bad, what I do is 15 mins of gathering gets me the wood and ore I need. Then go to do a world event or two, sell the rares and use the profit to buy the ectos (sometimes I refine the rares directly but generally its cheaper time wise to just sell and buy) and craft 1 exotic or two that will get you up a couple of levels!

LMAO! 15mina of gather might net you 10ori at best.

Oh boy it’s getting deep.

Unless you go to gw2nodes.com and follow the maps there, once a day. 15 minutes gets you three zones of ori and ancient wood if you ignore mobs and use waypoints.

Exactly.

It might not be fun but it works great.

If you’re impatient and dont enjoy finding the notes yourself its an option way better then spending so much gold for sure!

The farmers right now are cursing my name for publicly revealing the secret. lol

well at least in gw2 they’ll not find the nodes gone because someone else harvested them :p

that and I got a feeling a lot of players will still just pay then go gather them themselves.

Dante.1508:

Bismuth.3165:

I’m pretty sure anet said they were going to make ascended weapons a really long while ago, and a lot of people kept asking for ascended weapons, a really lot of people, why the sudden change of mind?

There are also a lot of people that didn’t ever want it, they never changed their minds, they just hoped Anet would make the game they enjoyed 6 years or so ago.

Just like there were alot of people who didn’t want dungeons or fractals and were happy the first two months before everything that was valuable was shoved into those things despite the devs interviews claiming that we’d never have to set foot in a dungeon again.

TooBz.3065:

Galen Grey.4709:

if the past is any indication everyone will have no trouble acquiring a full set of ascended gear by that time.

I mean we’re one year in, can we say there is any content that requires exotic gear?

I had sometime tell me that in WvW I should increase my armor above X because of ascended weapons. This X would require 100% defensive setup. Now I don’t think it’s necessary, but perceptions are already out there that ascended weapons is changing things.

The big problem in WvW is “rallybotting”

Because of the rally on defeat mechanism, if you are undergeared or leveled, you are actually a big negative to your team. When you die you will allow a bunch of the enemy players to rally.

Already on the high tier servers guild groups are incredibly hostile to PUGs following them. Once gear becomes undeniably an advantage (close to that now), the full WoW “gearscore” mentality will come to WvW.

Thrumdi.9216:

TooBz.3065:

Galen Grey.4709:

if the past is any indication everyone will have no trouble acquiring a full set of ascended gear by that time.

I mean we’re one year in, can we say there is any content that requires exotic gear?

I had sometime tell me that in WvW I should increase my armor above X because of ascended weapons. This X would require 100% defensive setup. Now I don’t think it’s necessary, but perceptions are already out there that ascended weapons is changing things.

The big problem in WvW is “rallybotting”

Because of the rally on defeat mechanism, if you are undergeared or leveled, you are actually a big negative to your team. When you die you will allow a bunch of the enemy players to rally.

Already on the high tier servers guild groups are incredibly hostile to PUGs following them. Once gear becomes undeniably an advantage (close to that now), the full WoW “gearscore” mentality will come to WvW.

I see what you mean but I am not that convinced.
You need quite a bit of organization for this, you will not rally just cause someone died you need to have been fighting him and that means you need to co-ordinate all those who are downed to attack the same victim which is hard to do. Not only that, but if this is a large fight you dont need a weak victim to do it, if you can co-ordinate downed players to attack the same guy a bunch of people who are still in play can easily down him and kill him quickly if they all focus on him.

Dont get me wrong, what you say make sense and can in fact be a good weapon, it just that I think it takes a lot of work to properly exploit it.

Thrumdi.9216:

TooBz.3065:

Galen Grey.4709:

if the past is any indication everyone will have no trouble acquiring a full set of ascended gear by that time.

I mean we’re one year in, can we say there is any content that requires exotic gear?

I had sometime tell me that in WvW I should increase my armor above X because of ascended weapons. This X would require 100% defensive setup. Now I don’t think it’s necessary, but perceptions are already out there that ascended weapons is changing things.

The big problem in WvW is “rallybotting”

Because of the rally on defeat mechanism, if you are undergeared or leveled, you are actually a big negative to your team. When you die you will allow a bunch of the enemy players to rally.

Already on the high tier servers guild groups are incredibly hostile to PUGs following them. Once gear becomes undeniably an advantage (close to that now), the full WoW “gearscore” mentality will come to WvW.

This supports my point to some degree (the perception is that stronger weapons change the game in WvW). However, I also agree with Galen.

I understand this argument and if I were a rally bot I’d agree that I need more toughness. However, with a significant lower toughness score, I am still usually one of the last people alive. I usually only die when we’re getting wiped anyway. (That is, when the command goes up to rally at the waypoint, I’m still alive and running around)

This is not because of any skill on my part, but because I am a coward. And perhaps a slightly better than average understand of how long I can stay in a firezone.

Galen Grey.4709:

okey fair enough no issue with what you said so far. so my next question is what kind of reward would you consider meaningful?

That’s the thing I’ve realised. I don’t play games for the “reward”. I think it’s really twisted that this is what the community has been taught to focus on. Hell, it’s the same in every MMO out there.

I play games for the experience and the challenge.

When I play Dwarf Fortress, it’s not for the reward. It’s for the stories created by the complex interactions of deep simulation. It’s for the challenge of making a fortress that becomes almost self-sufficient. It’s for the ridiculous structures I can dream up and implement.

When I play GTA, it’s for the sheer fun of tooling around in an open world and thinking of crazy stuff to do. It’s winning races and completing challenges. The rewards are meaningless.

When I play Demon’s / Dark Souls, again, it’s for the challenge and the sheer atmosphere; for a story deftly told through subtle hints.

Guild Wars 2 has become a cheap race for the next digital shiny, false rewards doled out for completing monotonous tasks.
It’s like operant conditioning.
Push the button, get a treat.

There is no depth there any more, and it can barely be called a game.

Odokuro.5049:

I again meant not offense with my reply, it just seems like you want to login and have fun and put NO work into it…

YES! This! Exactly!

I want to log in to a GAME and have FUN. I don’t want to spend my entertainment time working, I want to spend it relaxing. I want challenging encounters, not daily requirements. I want things that make me think, that quicken my reaction times, or that provide a laugh with friends. Now, I don’t mind at all setting some reasonable goals and gaining some ground in every PLAY session (not work) and over time getting to see some shiny reward pop up because I’ve been effectively PLAYING the GAME.

Unfortunately, that’s not Guild Wars 2 feels like anymore, and I believe that the OP was asking if this is what A-Net intends with their current direction.

I spent 6 years and well over 10,000 hours in GW1. It seldom felt like work, (I say seldom because there were some titles that did indeed become grindy — but those things were not the be-all and end-all of the play) it was FUN with benefits. I believed the Guild Wars Two would be a different story, have different game mechanics, and yet have the same developer perspective and philosophy as the first game and that’s what was advertised when the pre-orders came out. It’s only become a time gated, vertical progression game recently.

The OP is asking if there is any reason to believe that A-Net still wants people who PLAY this game for fun, relaxation, camaraderie, casual experiences with good challenge and competition, or if they’ve changed the type of player that they want to attract…

I’m with the previous poster and with the OP.
I think i’ll start playing again, when new skills are introduced – i don’t find the new-content grind fun.

Anyways to each his own.

I’m much like the OP and yet I still feel Guild Wars 2 is the closest thing these days to meeting all of our criteria. I don’t foresee this changing any time soon unless GW2 takes a turn for the worst (unlikely) and/or the sandbox MMO makes a mainstream return (even more unlikely).

I don’t care about legendaries, ascended, PvP or WvW. What I do care about is exploration and tinkering with builds while rolling in parties of two or three with friends conquering champions, dungeons, etc.. There’s plenty of challenge and fun to be had this way as far as I’m concerned.

Are there things I don’t like about GW2? Sure, but it’s not like any other game is perfect regardless of player count or platform.

Mungrul.9358:

Guild Wars 2 has become a cheap race for the next digital shiny, false rewards doled out for completing monotonous tasks.
It’s like operant conditioning.
Push the button, get a treat.

There is no depth there any more, and it can barely be called a game.

When I read comments like this, I genuinely wonder if we’re even playing the same game because my experience has been quite different as mentioned above.

@medohgeuh, you probably aren’t playing the same game. So much of GW2 is the experience you create for yourself.

If I weren’t interested in WvW and only wanted to do open world dungeons and PvE with guildmates and friends (no pugs) I would not be concerned with Ascended gear either.

Honestly, the only bad thing about the gear is that it affects WvW. Otherwise, it can be safely ignored.

TooBz.3065:

@medohgeuh, you probably aren’t playing the same game. So much of GW2 is the experience you create for yourself.

If I weren’t interested in WvW and only wanted to do open world dungeons and PvE with guildmates and friends (no pugs) I would not be concerned with Ascended gear either.

Honestly, the only bad thing about the gear is that it affects WvW. Otherwise, it can be safely ignored.

Which says a lot considering we’re talking a game that’s heavily PvE centric, no?

Mungrul.9358:

Galen Grey.4709:

okey fair enough no issue with what you said so far. so my next question is what kind of reward would you consider meaningful?

That’s the thing I’ve realised. I don’t play games for the “reward”. I think it’s really twisted that this is what the community has been taught to focus on. Hell, it’s the same in every MMO out there.

I play games for the experience and the challenge.

When I play Dwarf Fortress, it’s not for the reward. It’s for the stories created by the complex interactions of deep simulation. It’s for the challenge of making a fortress that becomes almost self-sufficient. It’s for the ridiculous structures I can dream up and implement.

When I play GTA, it’s for the sheer fun of tooling around in an open world and thinking of crazy stuff to do. It’s winning races and completing challenges. The rewards are meaningless.

When I play Demon’s / Dark Souls, again, it’s for the challenge and the sheer atmosphere; for a story deftly told through subtle hints.

Guild Wars 2 has become a cheap race for the next digital shiny, false rewards doled out for completing monotonous tasks.
It’s like operant conditioning.
Push the button, get a treat.

There is no depth there any more, and it can barely be called a game.

I am confused, really confused… your comments seem to be genuine but are just saying conflicting things. You said you stop playing because you felt you were falling behind. and you said you were falling behind because you were missing out on achievements and no laurels etc… Not just that but you said nothing else matters because all other rewards are just incredibly shallow.

And now you’re saying Rewards dont matter to you at all.

It can’t be both at the same time!

Gw2 is a rat race for rewards if you make it a rat race for rewards. If you dont care about the skins SAB is still a great little jumping puzzle mini game. If you dont care for drops Tequalt is a great challenging boss fight. If you dont care about the rewards GW2 still offers a huge beautiful world filled with great detail and lots of little hidden secrets to discover.

The problems in Gw2 start when you end up caring too much about rewards, when you’d rather farm that champion train then try that challenging jumping puzzle. When you rather go farm events in Orr then experience the story off the dynamic events in lower level zones etc..

Gw2 is a game that tries to offer something to everyone. If rewards are important to you, you get new once to get every 2 weeks. If you want all the stuff you say you value (except for the building and complex random stories part in DF) its there as well but you have to pursuit them yourself, the game doesnt force you to do anything and I mean anything. There is a reason why no content in the game what so ever requires Ascended gear, or exotic gear for that matter. There is a reason why you’re scaled down
in lower level regions. There is a reason why you get so many cosmetic items. All of the different game design decisions give you options. Its up to you to choose which ones to take though.

Galen Grey.4709:

Gw2 is a rat race for rewards if you make it a rat race for rewards.

In the same way WoW isn’t about level and gear grind because you can just run around the starter zones all you want. Or how a shooter isn’t about shooting because you can just run past the enemies. Or the same way a racing game isn’t about racing because you can just stay at the starting line.

It’s an old fallacy.

The game is what game does. If the game presses you to do something, that’s what the game is about. If these things were truly optional, they would be optional in context of the gameplay.

In fact, that’s what was advertised: different strokes for different folks, maybe some get more rewards or unique rewards, but not at expense of ordinary players. That was the promise. It fell through.

Legendaries are the truly optional goals, really. That’s what a purely optional goal is: something you can chase if you want to, but something the game doesn’t even remotely press you to do.

Draco.2806:

If these things were truly optional, they would be optional in context of the gameplay.

And they are entirely optional. There isn’t a single “reward” in this game that is necessary for completing any of the available content.

Hell, I spent weeks at level 80 on both my thief and mesmer wearing severely underleveled masterwork equipment and had no problem doing anything I wanted.

Draco.2806:

Galen Grey.4709:

Gw2 is a rat race for rewards if you make it a rat race for rewards.

In the same way WoW isn’t about level and gear grind because you can just run around the starter zones all you want. Or how a shooter isn’t about shooting because you can just run past the enemies. Or the same way a racing game isn’t about racing because you can just stay at the starting line.

It’s an old fallacy.

The game is what game does. If the game presses you to do something, that’s what the game is about. If these things were truly optional, they would be optional in context of the gameplay.

In fact, that’s what was advertised: different strokes for different folks, maybe some get more rewards or unique rewards, but not at expense of ordinary players. That was the promise. It fell through.

Legendaries are the truly optional goals, really. That’s what a purely optional goal is: something you can chase if you want to, but something the game doesn’t even remotely press you to do.

No its not, unless things changed since I last played Wow which while they did I am sure they didnt change this much if you decided to play in the starter zone soon you’d outlevel it and you would stop progressing if you just stayed there. There is a difference between being able to do something and the game supporting that something. In Gw2 if i decided to just walk out of queensdale and spend my entire life killing the first moa I come accross and do nothing else, it may take a while but in a few decades I would be level 80 and fully geared in level 80 exotics. If I do the same thing in WoW I will get to level 5 and never gear past level 5.

Sure I agree but what does Gw2 truly press you into? getting Ascended gear? how does it press you in that exactly? WoW and games like it do that by making sure if you dont bother about gear you’re going to fail PvP encounters. They do that by making certain raids closed to you. etc.. In Gw2 None of that happens. Gw2 doesnt press you in getting any rewards because none of those rewards are specifically needed for anything.And this is not just empty talk. I had alts which I leveled to 80 and never bothered equiping anything other then stuff I get from drops. I would then finish dressing them up in nice looking armor when its their turn. I even had some characters who had like level 65ish armor pieces and mostly in blues with a few greens and maybe 1 and 2 rares if even. I still did level 80 content with those characters! Hence they are optional in the context of gameplay.

I am not sure why you feel that way? its most definitely is different strokes for different folks. You feel BiS is important to you, there is that in the game, you’re free to pursuit it. You dont want anything to do with BiS, ignore it you’ll not be missing out on any content and you will not die when facing another player because you neglected your armor. what more can the game do to provide content to both extremes then this?

Galen Grey.4709:

I am not sure why you feel that way? its most definitely is different strokes for different folks. You feel BiS is important to you, there is that in the game, you’re free to pursuit it. You dont want anything to do with BiS, ignore it you’ll not be missing out on any content and you will not die when facing another player because you neglected your armor. what more can the game do to provide content to both extremes then this?

Ascended weapons+trinkets already net around 15% more damage. With armor, I wouldn’t be surprised if it jumped to 25% more damage.

Sure, you can ignore BiS. But what happens when a good percentage of the population has ascended gear? They’ll have to buff the content to compensate. I’m sure that will be loads of fun to do in greens!

WvW? Don’t even bother. BiS or GTFO.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Galen Grey.4709:

I am not sure why you feel that way? its most definitely is different strokes for different folks. You feel BiS is important to you, there is that in the game, you’re free to pursuit it. You dont want anything to do with BiS, ignore it you’ll not be missing out on any content and you will not die when facing another player because you neglected your armor. what more can the game do to provide content to both extremes then this?

Ascended weapons+trinkets already net around 15% more damage. With armor, I wouldn’t be surprised if it jumped to 25% more damage.

Sure, you can ignore BiS. But what happens when a good percentage of the population has ascended gear? They’ll have to buff the content to compensate. I’m sure that will be loads of fun to do in greens!

WvW? Don’t even bother. BiS or GTFO.

Doubt that. How many people in this game do you think have an alt? How much work do you think you have to put in to get BiS for alts? How many people (having in mind that the game was advertised for casual audience) do you think have that precious time to invest to work for it? BiS is just not worth the bother, because the only use out of it is in fractals. Not to mention sacrificing signets and runes for it… Really not worth it.
Also do any (except for elitist) dungeon run groups ever tell you “exotics or GTFO!”?

medohgeuh.4650:

Hell, I spent weeks at level 80 on both my thief and mesmer wearing severely underleveled masterwork equipment and had no problem doing anything I wanted.

Same fallacy, still.

Galen Grey.4709:

In Gw2 if i decided to just walk out of queensdale and spend my entire life killing the first moa I come accross and do nothing else, it may take a while but in a few decades I would be level 80 and fully geared in level 80 exotics.

I’m not entirely sure what you’re arguing, but I have a hunch it’s very ironic.

Mirta.5029:

Also do any (except for elitist) dungeon run groups ever tell you “exotics or GTFO!”?

Usually the players themselves assume the role of gate-keepers and don’t join dungeons unless they’re in full Exotic gear. GW2 community is quite polite in many respects.

Draco.2806:

Mirta.5029:

Also do any (except for elitist) dungeon run groups ever tell you “exotics or GTFO!”?

Usually the players themselves assume the role of gate-keepers and don’t join dungeons unless they’re in full Exotic gear. GW2 community is quite polite in many respects.

Well having in mind that most people that join are under-leveled, they’re under geared as well
And to be honest it doesn’t matter much unless you’re planning to run Arah.

Mirta.5029:

BiS is just not worth the bother, because the only use out of it is in fractals. Not to mention sacrificing signets and runes for it…

I assume you mean sigils. I was under the impression that weapons have both a sigil and infusion slot. Is that not so? If it is so, armor would presumably have a rune and infusion slot.

Huh. I don’t play dungeons too often (and when I do, our party gets wiped ten times over before we get to the end), but I’ve always run across fully-specced 80s in the EXP runs and level-appropriate folk in the Storymode.

Maybe it’s a regional thing.

Draco.2806:

Huh. I don’t play dungeons too often (and when I do, our party gets wiped ten times over before we get to the end), but I’ve always run across fully-specced 80s in the EXP runs and level-appropriate folk in the Storymode.

Maybe it’s a regional thing.

Do you even dodge? Dungeons can be ran without any armor at all. I am just curious how your party wipes ten times over?

Really though dodging is your best friend in this game, unlike other games where you stand still and allow enemies to attack you. This method just does not work in this game, stay moving stay dodging.

Zypher.7609:

Do you even dodge?

“Do you even lift?”

Come on. You ought to understand people have different levels of skill.

Maybe running dungeons is as trivial to you as airshotting a bunnyhopping railgunner is to me, but dungeons are still a very hardcore type of content for most players. Being wiped is common, people leaving in frustration is common, and gear definitely does matter.

Zypher.7609:

Draco.2806:

Huh. I don’t play dungeons too often (and when I do, our party gets wiped ten times over before we get to the end), but I’ve always run across fully-specced 80s in the EXP runs and level-appropriate folk in the Storymode.

Maybe it’s a regional thing.

Do you even dodge? Dungeons can be ran without any armor at all. I am just curious how your party wipes ten times over?

Really though dodging is your best friend in this game, unlike other games where you stand still and allow enemies to attack you. This method just does not work in this game, stay moving stay dodging.

You lose DPS when dodging, when you can just out damage most boss in this game before it has a chance of killing you I don’t see the point. Anything in CoF dies in about 7 seconds to an organized speed clear, and that’s not over exaggerating.

But yeah, who the hell dies in this game anymore other than to cheese 1shot mechanics.

Draco.2806:

Same fallacy, still.

What fallacy?

Gear is irrelevant in Guild Wars 2. It’s the players the give it value, not the game.

Mathias.9657:

But yeah, who the hell dies in this game anymore other than to cheese 1shot mechanics.

I do, because I don’t cheese through content by running with a zerg from point A to point B.

medohgeuh.4650:

What fallacy?.

This one.

medohgeuh.4650:

Gear is irrelevant in Guild Wars 2. It’s the players the give it value, not the game.

No.

Just no.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Galen Grey.4709:

I am not sure why you feel that way? its most definitely is different strokes for different folks. You feel BiS is important to you, there is that in the game, you’re free to pursuit it. You dont want anything to do with BiS, ignore it you’ll not be missing out on any content and you will not die when facing another player because you neglected your armor. what more can the game do to provide content to both extremes then this?

Ascended weapons+trinkets already net around 15% more damage. With armor, I wouldn’t be surprised if it jumped to 25% more damage.

Sure, you can ignore BiS. But what happens when a good percentage of the population has ascended gear? They’ll have to buff the content to compensate. I’m sure that will be loads of fun to do in greens!

WvW? Don’t even bother. BiS or GTFO.

it is not cumulative. if every single piece has 5% advantage the total advantage is 5% not 5%x12

if say exotic has value 100 and accended has value 105, 12x 100 = 1200 12×105 = 1260

1260 is 5% more then 1200

but no need to math really, I dont have BiS not a single piece, I dont even have a full set of exotics really and I do great in WvW.

Draco.2806:

Galen Grey.4709:

In Gw2 if i decided to just walk out of queensdale and spend my entire life killing the first moa I come accross and do nothing else, it may take a while but in a few decades I would be level 80 and fully geared in level 80 exotics.

I’m not entirely sure what you’re arguing, but I have a hunch it’s very ironic.

What I am trying to argue is pretty simple Gw2 gives the freedom to play the game any way you want… really play the game any way you want. The same cannot be said of other MMOs.

In Gw2 you could level to max level and fully gear up in max level armor by just killing a level 2 moa over and over again. No one is going to do that and it will take long if anyone decided to do it, but you can do it. No other MMO that I am aware of allows you to do that.

also I dont see what irony you’re refering too? is it because I admit it takes long? of course it does but then again who’s going to do it? no one is going to try to level up to max level and gear up doing nothing but killing the same level 2 moa bird so its not a problem if the process is time consuming.

Draco.2806:

Zypher.7609:

Do you even dodge?

“Do you even lift?”

Come on. You ought to understand people have different levels of skill.

Maybe running dungeons is as trivial to you as airshotting a bunnyhopping railgunner is to me, but dungeons are still a very hardcore type of content for most players. Being wiped is common, people leaving in frustration is common, and gear definitely does matter.

maybe and I am not saying this is the case, the over reliance on gear makes you neglect the important stuff which is skill and team work.

Example going up from exotic to ascended it will give you 5-10% increase in damage output. Buffing each other with might and a time warp will buff your damage output by over 80% to the entire party making that simple process nearly 400% better in terms of actually effectiveness. Same goes if you look at it from a defense point of view. A full ascended set will mitigate 5 – 10% extra damage meaning every 10 blows max you save yourself for an extra blow. with a well time blind / fear / push back / whatever interrupt skill you save that blow immediately and generally cool down runs out much earlier then it takes a mob to hit you 10 times especially if you have more then a single interrupt skill and couple that with regen / protection buffs.

Gear does matter, not saying it doesnt since of course you can use both skill and gear at the same time not saying it doesnt just that primarely this remains a skill based game and skill will trump gear every time.

I do dungeon with no ascended gear and rarely if ever wipe, some times we also make it through without getting downed. So dont think you’re wiping because you’re undergeared, you probably need to just better support each other. A lot of people make the mistake to think only in terms of DPS. Support and Control is pretty much alive as well and pretty useful to increase one’s survivability.

Again, people who dont kow basic math operations/understand GW2 stat system try to argue numberz.

Its hilarious. I bet ANet devs have same good time with it as i do.

MikaHR.1978:

Again, people who dont kow basic math operations/understand GW2 stat system try to argue numberz.

Its hilarious. I bet ANet devs have same good time with it as i do.

Well you’ve wasted 164 bytes + headers of storage space without adding anything to the discussion. How’s that for basic math? But wait, the board might actually support unicode in which case the wasted amount goes up to 328 bytes + headers.

whats hilarious is your insistence on personal attacks without proving any support what so over for your arguments. I dont know what you’re expecting to happen. Do you think anyone is going to change their minds on anything just because you claim people dont know basic maths? Do you think you’re going to destroy my or anyone elses reputation because people are going to believe what we say is bogus just cause you say so? Seriously what are you trying to achieve? some out lash by one of your victims so you can report them and have them infracted? what exactly?

Galen Grey.4709:

MikaHR.1978:

Again, people who dont kow basic math operations/understand GW2 stat system try to argue numberz.

Its hilarious. I bet ANet devs have same good time with it as i do.

Well you’ve wasted 164 bytes + headers of storage space without adding anything to the discussion. How’s that for basic math? But wait, the board might actually support unicode in which case the wasted amount goes up to 328 bytes + headers.

whats hilarious is your insistence on personal attacks without proving any support what so over for your arguments. I dont know what you’re expecting to happen. Do you think anyone is going to change their minds on anything just because you claim people dont know basic maths? Do you think you’re going to destroy my or anyone elses reputation because people are going to believe what we say is bogus just cause you say so? Seriously what are you trying to achieve? some out lash by one of your victims so you can report them and have them infracted? what exactly?

Umadbro?

Its a shame people dont know basic math operations that are learned in 1st grade.

And even continue to argue about it.

An intelligent person would finally go and look it up and stop spouting nonsense, but nooooooo

MikaHR.1978:

Galen Grey.4709:

MikaHR.1978:

Again, people who dont kow basic math operations/understand GW2 stat system try to argue numberz.

Its hilarious. I bet ANet devs have same good time with it as i do.

Well you’ve wasted 164 bytes + headers of storage space without adding anything to the discussion. How’s that for basic math? But wait, the board might actually support unicode in which case the wasted amount goes up to 328 bytes + headers.

whats hilarious is your insistence on personal attacks without proving any support what so over for your arguments. I dont know what you’re expecting to happen. Do you think anyone is going to change their minds on anything just because you claim people dont know basic maths? Do you think you’re going to destroy my or anyone elses reputation because people are going to believe what we say is bogus just cause you say so? Seriously what are you trying to achieve? some out lash by one of your victims so you can report them and have them infracted? what exactly?

Umadbro?

Its a shame people dont know basic math operations that are learned in 1st grade.

And even continue to argue about it.

An intelligent person would finally go and look it up and stop spouting nonsense, but nooooooo

A person who is interested in anything but posting some flame bait would point out what they disagree with rather then say people dont know basic math operations without any proof. For all we know you’re the one who doesnt know basic math operations and thus though something that was correct was in fact wrong when it really wasnt!

Ive done it 100 times already. Should i be stupid enough to think that doing it 101st would make any difference rofl.

saying you did something 100 times doesnt magically make it true. Not only didnt you do it 100s of times like you’re saying but you never bothered explaining how we’re wrong once. Of course like you I could be just making stuff up without providing any bases. So for my last post to you on this matter I will leave this conviniant link where people who might be interested can go check your history and see if its really true that you explain this 100s of times and me and others are just so bad at math that we cannot grasp the concepts you present or if like I said all you have been doing from day one is telling people they’re bad at math without explaining how even once.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/MikaHR-1978/showposts

Galen Grey.4709:

saying you did something 100 times doesnt magically make it true. Not only didnt you do it 100s of times like you’re saying but you never bothered explaining how we’re wrong once. Of course like you I could be just making stuff up without providing any bases. So for my last post to you on this matter I will leave this conviniant link where people who might be interested can go check your history and see if its really true that you explain this 100s of times and me and others are just so bad at math that we cannot grasp the concepts you present or if like I said all you have been doing from day one is telling people they’re bad at math without explaining how even once.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/MikaHR-1978/showposts

You see, its just confirmation that doing it 101st time would have same effect as first 100 ROFL

and why responding to you is such a waste of time.

Galen Grey.4709:

What I am trying to argue is pretty simple Gw2 gives the freedom to play the game any way you want… really play the game any way you want. The same cannot be said of other MMOs.

In Gw2 you could level to max level and fully gear up in max level armor by just killing a level 2 moa over and over again. No one is going to do that and it will take long if anyone decided to do it, but you can do it…

I suppose you’re talking about various tweaks to the levelling system compared to other MMOs, right? If so, that’s true, and it’s definitely a welcome gesture and a small sign of progress.

But an MMO doesn’t end when you’ve finally graduated to final level. In fact, that’s usually where it begins – and that’s where most problems with all the “grindy” MMOs really start to take shape, and the same is just as true for GW2.

Acquiring Legandaries was supposed to be a purely optional grind – well, actually it wasn’t supposed to be one, it was just supposed to take a lot of time and skill – and although it’s bad design, it’s purely optional, so it doesn’t really impact the game.

But now, when you do level out your character, your vertical grind is simply replaced with a horizontal one. You know, horizontal progression? It can be just as grindy as the vertical one, and it really is. And it’s not good. It’s not fun. It’s just the same old grind that MMOs are so infamous for – or worse. Sure it’s optional: but if you decline the option, there’s no more goal in the game, and no more reason to keep playing.

(That is, of course, assuming “horizontal progression” exists at all because the Transmutation system makes it impossible to actually “progress”, it literally keeps you in place.)

Ascended gear is just an insult to injury of introducing good old vertical grind as a cherry on top.

Galen Grey.4709:

also I dont see what irony you’re refering too? is it because I admit it takes long? of course it does but then again who’s going to do it?

…Then why did you use it as an example.

Draco.2806:

medohgeuh.4650:

What fallacy?.

This one.

medohgeuh.4650:

Gear is irrelevant in Guild Wars 2. It’s the players the give it value, not the game.

No.

Just no.

An excellent retort that adds to the discussion.

medohgeuh.4650:

Draco.2806:

medohgeuh.4650:

What fallacy?.

This one.

medohgeuh.4650:

Gear is irrelevant in Guild Wars 2. It’s the players the give it value, not the game.

No.

Just no.

An excellent retort that adds to the discussion.

you need gear for fractals….

Galen Grey.4709:

Gw2 gives the freedom to play the game any way you want… really play the game any way you want.

I want to play the game at max level with BiS gear that I do not have to craft or grind for.

Draco.2806:

snip…

But an MMO doesn’t end when you’ve finally graduated to final level. In fact, that’s usually where it begins – and that’s where most problems with all the “grindy” MMOs really start to take shape, and the same is just as true for GW2.

..snip..
(That is, of course, assuming “horizontal progression” exists at all because the Transmutation system makes it impossible to actually “progress”, it literally keeps you in place.)

Ascended gear is just an insult to injury of introducing good old vertical grind as a cherry on top.

I think the problem here is primarily people dont know what having an optional goal means. An optional goal is an advantage not just because you can ignore it but also and primarily in my opinion because you’re not time bound to have it.

Lets take Ascended gear for example. Now you may not believe ascended gear is an optional goal in which case this discussion is going to hit a wall but for me its optional and I hope you can agree because no content in PvE requires it (undeniable), It has 0 effect on sPvP (undeniable) in WvW its advantage is minimal (5%-10% compared with things like Arrow carts that do more damage then a warrior’s critical burst damage and do all that to 5x the amount of players you can ever hope to affect with any skill of any class) , a player disparity in engagements, protected behind a wall, buffs etc..) Of course while optional like any goal its desirable, 5% – 10% is not much but it still allows to finish content faster and now and then it might mean the difference between a win and a defeat in some engagements in WvW. But because it is optional is it a problem if it takes 2 months instead of 2 weeks to acquire? cause if you understand that no not really a lot of what is currently being perceived as grind goes away. Take ascended weapon, running 25 dungeons to get the necessary fragments feels grindy if you look at it as running 25 paths one after the other but most of us do that naturally in 2 months. I mean I am not a dungeon runner myself but I think I join my guild for an average of 3 dungeons runs per week when they’re looking for players to set up a run and thats not counting releases like the one we got yesterday that will increase . Same goes with everything else, everything you need is in content you’ll get to play anyway, its a grind because people try to reach the goal as quickly as possible rather then wait till their natural game play gets them all that is required for that goal.

Smith.1826:

Galen Grey.4709:

also I dont see what irony you’re refering too? is it because I admit it takes long? of course it does but then again who’s going to do it?

…Then why did you use it as an example.

Simply because we’re talking about freedom of playing how you want to play and thats the extremest example of how much freedom Gw2 gives you. In most Themeparks leveling up is a set narrow path. you have linear quest hubs in which you have to do every single quest and in high level areas even that is generally not enough and you start getting repeatable quests and/or have to grind mob kills to get to the next level and/or repeat dungeons. There wouldnt be any alternatives to that what so ever. Gw2 leaves it entirely up to you, nearly everything you can dream up of doing will net you XP and help you progress, even simply running around doing nothing else at all.

Ashen.2907:

Galen Grey.4709:

Gw2 gives the freedom to play the game any way you want… really play the game any way you want.

I want to play the game at max level with BiS gear that I do not have to craft or grind for.

You can do that, playing the game will net you dailies which in turn you can get ascended trinkets for. It will get even easier if you do guild missions but you dont really have to. That leaves an ascended weapon which you can get via a drop if you opt not to craft one. I

Galen Grey.4709:

That leaves an ascended weapon which you can get via a drop if you opt not to craft one. I

Which I might eventually get as a drop. But to get it as a drop I would not be playing the game as I want, as mentioned in the post you quoted, with BiS gear.

For what it is worth, I do have the ascended trinkets, and I did have to grind for them.

great post OP. totally agree.

Galen Grey.4709:

You can do that, playing the game will net you dailies which in turn you can get ascended trinkets for. It will get even easier if you do guild missions but you dont really have to. That leaves an ascended weapon which you can get via a drop if you opt not to craft one. I

yeah that great drop where you dont get to choose your stats but you do get to choose your weapon so you can get an extra useless greatsword to take up space in your inventory/bank. the only way to get ascended is through crafting dont even kid yourself that you can get a drop that you will like.

Ashen.2907:

Galen Grey.4709:

That leaves an ascended weapon which you can get via a drop if you opt not to craft one. I

Which I might eventually get as a drop. But to get it as a drop I would not be playing the game as I want, as mentioned in the post you quoted, with BiS gear.

For what it is worth, I do have the ascended trinkets, and I did have to grind for them.

What content exactly do you like to play that made it impossible for you to complete dailies playing just it?

Of course yes, you dont have the an Ascended Weapon until you get the ascended weapon drop but you’re still playing exactly the same content. Its not like the same content is boring without an ascended weapon but amazing once you get it.

champ.7021:

Galen Grey.4709:

You can do that, playing the game will net you dailies which in turn you can get ascended trinkets for. It will get even easier if you do guild missions but you dont really have to. That leaves an ascended weapon which you can get via a drop if you opt not to craft one. I

yeah that great drop where you dont get to choose your stats but you do get to choose your weapon so you can get an extra useless greatsword to take up space in your inventory/bank. the only way to get ascended is through crafting dont even kid yourself that you can get a drop that you will like.

then get it through crafting if you dont want to gamble. Getting it through crafting involves an effort that getting through the content you’re playing anyway doesnt, Its fair those who go through the trouble should have some form of advantage. Besides to craft it its most likely playing that same content anyway.

NinjaEd.3946:

Few things op.

1. Gear does not outweigh skill in pve or wvw. If you compare Masterwork to exotic or asc, yeah you see the difference but exotic is accessible by almost limitless ways, you aren’t obligated to get the next tier.

false….
fotm 48 says the opposite.
They are also the most deep and fun istances in the game since they at least are not all about skip and melee stack.

Galen Grey.4709:

What content exactly do you like to play that made it impossible for you to complete dailies playing just it?

Some days dailies were achieved by playing as I saw fit that day. Other days I had to choose between making progress toward getting ascended trinkets or playing the game as I chose.

Galen Grey.4709:

Its not like the same content is boring without an ascended weapon but amazing once you get it.

You are mistaken.

Without BiS gear I am not playing the way I want. The same content is not enjoyable if I do not have BiS gear.

Namu.5712:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Odokuro.5049:

No offense with this reply to you OP, so please don’t take this as a personal attack, ect.

What I get from your post is that you DO NOT want to work for anything, because to you working towards gear/items ect. = grind/treadmilling.

You want to be able to login and have fun, having things given to you because of my previous statement.

You feel very reluctant to spend any time gaining karma or spending your laurels because the fear of ANet putting in different or better gear will render your karma/laurel items/gear less effective.

I again meant not offense with my reply, it just seems like you want to login and have fun and put NO work into it because it will just end in you being outdone or outclassed later on.

Best of luck, and I hope my harshness wasn’t enough to push you over the edge.

Work? This is a game.

I want to spend time getting better at the professions I enjoy playing rather than spending time getting gear so I can compete. Is that so terrible?

sPvP if you want to work on professions and compete.

WvW competition…. LOL please. Whoever has the bigger zerg wins.

I beg to differ our 40 man comp just wiped a 80 man TC zerg easy…. multiple times… and there are plenty videos out there of smaller 5 mans taking 20 people on at once.

So no bigger zerg does not = win