Guild Wars 2

I am openly against the train in Queensdale (QD). Not about trains in and of themselves, just the one currently in QD. I have admittedly started many disagreements in map chat about why the QD train is not healthy and have received nothing but ill thought out arguments that i wish to address here and hopefully raise awareness of the issue with Anet.

Firstly, my main argument for why the QD Train is a bad thing is because it is in a starting area. An area where players who are just starting out should be able to freely roam around and learn to play the game without a rampaging horde of higher level characters running around zerging everything in sight. Starter zones should be able to teach players how to control their character with their weapon abilities, utility skills and how to keep moving and dodging in order to survive.
Instead, what players get upon first arriving in QD is a massive blob of players who have grouped up for easy experience and non-challenging gameplay.

A majority of the arguments that i receive, is that i should not tell people how to play the game. This argument swings both ways as i have on numerous occasions when spawning the Champion Cave Troll by Vale WP and request assistance, that i should stop being a troll and wait for others in the train to come and kill it. This in itself is an example of people trying to tell me how to play the game which they seem very against when i say that the train should be stopped. A friend of mine once got so much offensive and unneeded harassment for killing a champion on the path of the QD train through Map chat and Whispers, that they did not log on for a few days. I can only imagine what this would be like to a player who logged on their first day and received this sort of abuse.

Another argument that pops up fairly often, is the claim that people in the game will need to learn how to zerg sometime anyway. I partially agree with this statement as i have played in WvW and participated in some of the bigger world events such as Tequatl or the Wurm event in Bloodtide Coast where that sort of thing is required.
However.. It is not a skill that i believe should be the first thing new players should learn how to do. Instead of learning their skills, what they do and what order they are most effectively used in while dodging and healing for the inevitable outcome that they encounter numerous situations where they are NOT in a zerg or even a party for that matter, they are marshaled into a blob of people where so many particles and abilities are spammed in hopes that they hit the champion for enough damage to grant them credit for the event, that there is no way of really knowing what an ability is capable of or what it may even look like within the cluster of abilities being thrown at the champion.

A popular claim is that the train is extremely efficient way of leveling and farming. In other words, its a giant grind for easy levels. And the train itself is not as efficient as it is claimed to be. Considering that a champion drops around 1s 75c give or take and a higher level character spends 1s+ to waypoint to the various spawn areas, they are only receiving 25% if that in a full rotation of the train after WP costs are added in. In higher level zones like Frostgorge or Cursed Shore the trains are indeed very efficient. Granted these zones are more challenging and do require zergs at times to down a stronger boss. But these trains are hard to come by now that a majority of the people interested in farming a train are taking the easy route by hopping aboard the QD train.

One of the main arguments against my claims is that I’m perceived as a troll and am trying to ruin the train for no other reason than for my own, apparently, twisted joyride of kittening people off. I’m not going to focus on this argument whatsoever because its an argument based on the fact that they have no real reasoning against my claim.

One of my favorite experiences during the beta of GW2 was stumbling upon the Troll’s stone, picking it up and feeling confused as i got absolutely destroyed by the Champion Cave Troll. After respawning i was able to request some assistance and with about four other players we were able to bring him down. It felt like i had actually accomplished something and participated in the GW universe like it was meant to be. Now i call out that the Champion Oakheart or the Troll has spawned, all i receive in map chat is harassment about my diabolical plans to derail the train and that i should conform the way i wish to play the game with the way that everyone else wishes me to play.

I’m most worried that new players, which seems to be what Anet is focusing on these days, will not get a chance to experience these situations that i loved so much about the game because one minute they’ll be there with two or three other people, and the next, 50 people join in and it becomes a mess of lag and disordered chaos. I’ve heard a few times people argue with me saying, that all the new players have to do is ask a question and that they’ll be answered. That’s great. Stupendous even. I applaud anyone who takes the time to stop and help a new player get their bearings in the game. You guys are few of many. And it is still not a sufficient argument to keep the train alive.

I’m asking this of Arena Net to find a way to stop the Queensdale Train in some way. Increase the timers on boss respawns to disrupt it’s flow. Reduce the rewards so that it is not a feasible way to get loot at later levels. Keep the starting zones for what they’re meant to be: A way to teach players new to GW2 how the basics of the game work. NOT a zone full of lazy high level players looking for easy loot and simpler way to level without experiencing the rest of the game.

I don’t know how many brand new players would take on a Champion anyway, just starting out. It is true you can accidentally spawn the Troll, but previously, you would likely just have been defeated, and left it until you were more experienced.

There are also 4 other starter zones where people may have started their characters. The train is part of the game right now, it only affects a few spots in the entire map, and many of us have had less-than-optimum experiences when new to a game, yet we persevere.

I don’t think it has the dire impact on new players that you may perceive. And, if you are curious or think I am biased, I don’t do the Champ Train in Queensdale, though I play quite often in that map, as I make new characters 2 or 3 times a week.

I have never encountered the Queensdale Train, but when I started this game, I learned how to play before I started zerging. Anet, it would be beneficial to newer players if this train was disrupted, perhaps any train in the starting zones.

Play your way (as long it’s the way I say).

If players want to champ train around queensdale, I got nothing against it. If they can stand being bored to tears for the pittance loot the champs give now (I’m sure ANet will just reduce the loot even further soon) then so be it.

Have fun, but as for me I would rather watch paint dry in a cold room.

CaptnRio.2705:

Another argument that pops up fairly often, is the claim that people in the game will need to learn how to zerg sometime anyway. I partially agree with this statement as i have played in WvW and participated in some of the bigger world events such as Tequatl or the Wurm event in Bloodtide Coast where that sort of thing is required.
However.. It is not a skill that i believe should be the first thing new players should learn how to do. Instead of learning their skills, what they do and what order they are most effectively used in while dodging and healing for the inevitable outcome that they encounter numerous situations where they are NOT in a zerg or even a party for that matter, they are marshaled into a blob of people where so many particles and abilities are spammed in hopes that they hit the champion for enough damage to grant them credit for the event, that there is no way of really knowing what an ability is capable of or what it may even look like within the cluster of abilities being thrown at the champion.

A popular claim is that the train is extremely efficient way of leveling and farming. In other words, its a giant grind for easy levels. And the train itself is not as efficient as it is claimed to be. Considering that a champion drops around 1s 75c give or take and a higher level character spends 1s+ to waypoint to the various spawn areas, they are only receiving 25% if that in a full rotation of the train after WP costs are added in. In higher level zones like Frostgorge or Cursed Shore the trains are indeed very efficient. Granted these zones are more challenging and do require zergs at times to down a stronger boss. But these trains are hard to come by now that a majority of the people interested in farming a train are taking the easy route by hopping aboard the QD train.

That’s not why those trains are hard to come by.

Frostgorge train got nerfed into oblivion. (I mean, someone can still do it if they want to, but yeh)

There is no train in CS, or at least I have yet to see one since megaservers arrived.
Cursed Shore is a land of chaos, I mean, it’s an okay place for events and loot, but it’s not as great as it could be, because people in cursed generally do what they want to do, and they wont form up in any train or anything, and wont even bother to call out events sometimes ,and people are often arguing about whether to defend an event, or let it fail., and do things like start Plinx when an event at shelter is going on, etc

Queensdales isn’t really about the loot, at least not for most people I would think. I just got done participating in the “train” to finish my daily. Train in quotes because someone was trolling it of course. (unless you don’t count running around as a zerk warrior dpsing champs down, and not even bothering to call them out not trolling, and when they happen to catch up to you, immediately port to a different champ)

The main reason people champ train in Weeniedale is not because it’s a starting area, not because it drops t6 resources, not because it drops 5s a champ bag, but because it’s fast. 4 champs in 10 minutes. It’s hard to beat that sort of speed and still be efficient.

I participate in the QD train sometimes, but I can see where you’re coming from.
I hate the toxic attitude people get in /map when the train is disrupted by someone that doesn’t know any better.
In fact, when I watch flame wars erupt because someone who knew no better disrupted the train, I usually go out of my way to disrupt the train as much as possible.
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
If someone chooses to join the train and not learn how to properly play their own character, that is their own perogative. Unfortunately, it will be detrimental to others, but that is nobody’s choice but their own.

Aidan Savage.2078:

The main reason people champ train in Weeniedale is not because it’s a starting area, not because it drops t6 resources, not because it drops 5s a champ bag, but because it’s fast. 4 champs in 10 minutes. It’s hard to beat that sort of speed and still be efficient.

SE Path 1, 5 champs in about 5 minutes. Over twice as effective as any train there is.

I do go to QD fairly often to do my dailies because its a beautiful zone and i know where things spawn. I do not participate in the train, but if one of the dailies is to kill a champion, i’ll just wait in the cave to fight the troll. And of course i announce when the stone appears because it’d be selfish of me to not share in the kill. I say it in map chat so anyone who is free and needs the event can come, it’s not my fault that people who are so glued to the idea of the QD train are busy with another champion.

People should go do the Frostgorge train instead…oh wait.

DaShi.1368:

People should go do the Frostgorge train instead…oh wait.

It’s still running strong. Didn’t take long to figure out the new order.

I have to say I agree with the OP. The primary issue in my opinion is the aggressive map chat behaviour when someone kills a champ that disrupts the train. It’s bad enough that some people (thankfully a minority I believe) feel entitled to behave like this in any zone, let alone starter areas.

Starter zones should be places of exploration and wonder, and not a place where you get abused for engaging with the world in the way it was designed to be.

My issue is not with the train itself (although it’s not really my play style as I find it too repetitive), but with where it is located.

Flissy.4093:

Aidan Savage.2078:

The main reason people champ train in Weeniedale is not because it’s a starting area, not because it drops t6 resources, not because it drops 5s a champ bag, but because it’s fast. 4 champs in 10 minutes. It’s hard to beat that sort of speed and still be efficient.

SE Path 1, 5 champs in about 5 minutes. Over twice as effective as any train there is.

Not everyone wants to go through the hassle of finding a dungeon group.

Personally, I love the train.
I can jump on whenever I want for however long I want.
I can go afk whenever I need to without slowing anyone else down.
I can often find banners up at Boar…even if I’m off to do some exploring, I’ll stop by Boar first to grab some buffs.

The train is fine. Leave it alone.

I see plenty of benefits in the Queensdale champ train as well…easy and reliable events for dailies/monthlies, a semi-fast and efficient means of obtaining money (it’s less about the direct monetary drop but what you get from the champ bag), it really IS efficient at leveling (at least for a while…and then it stagnates and then it becomes efficient again) and, quite frankly, it’s not really that bad.

I just think it’s silly when it bothers people in the train when someone else kills the champion. It’s also silly that some players out there have such hostility toward the QD train that they intentionally go and kill a champion to break the cycle.

There’s far too much kittening about something as insignificant and stupid as the QD train. Sure, these players aren’t that “good” but nobody’s forcing anyone to play with these “bad” players. If someone sucks really bad at a dungeon and you don’t want them, you’re still given a kick option. If you don’t want to explain yourself, you’re still given a block option. Honestly, at some point I think people need to start taking some personal responsibility and stop expecting everyone else to get on their page, no matter how far behind those other folks might be.

wolvenra.9617:

Flissy.4093:

Aidan Savage.2078:

The main reason people champ train in Weeniedale is not because it’s a starting area, not because it drops t6 resources, not because it drops 5s a champ bag, but because it’s fast. 4 champs in 10 minutes. It’s hard to beat that sort of speed and still be efficient.

SE Path 1, 5 champs in about 5 minutes. Over twice as effective as any train there is.

Not everyone wants to go through the hassle of finding a dungeon group.

Personally, I love the train.
I can jump on whenever I want for however long I want.
I can go afk whenever I need to without slowing anyone else down.
I can often find banners up at Boar…even if I’m off to do some exploring, I’ll stop by Boar first to grab some buffs.

The train is fine. Leave it alone.

I’m with Wolvenra on this. I can jump in for dailies or monthlies, which is about what I use it for. Banners are cool. Basically a bunch of random people are having fun playing the game; is this not the point? I’m not saying the game should be be full of trains, but surely one or two in the entire world do not ruin gameplay for everyone.

The real question(s) is: Why is this train so darn popular? What can Anet do to make the rest of the game this popular?

The thing is, GW2 have created a game where we’re encouraged to work together. It’s really a wonderful experience, but it encourages zerg play. You take the good with the bad.

And yes, you’re trolling the train if you’re deliberately messing up the rotation by killing bosses when they’re somewhere else in the map. There’s no rule against it, you can do whatever you want. But it’s kind of silly to do that, and then white knight for the new players at the same time. I’d argue that the majority of new players focus on getting to max level as among their first goals. I know I did, albeit spamming the giant worm and maw events because I started as a Norn. In addition, newbies have a fully functional game that is faaaaar superior to the one we had at launch. I’d say that more than makes up for the missing element of excitement that they might have on the off chance they choose the human race for their first play through and happen upon a cave in the corner of the map, and decide to pick up a random runestone and spawn a boss that then proceeds to beat the living crap out of them.

Just my two cents But yeah…. that chain is not really worth much other than for the monthly boss achievement. People will figure that out eventually on their own.

Easy solution, convert all champions in starter zones to Elite. Why would people even need to face a champion in a 0-15 level zone?

The QD train is not an issue for all new players, it only affects the boring, unoriginal human players. The train indirectly makes it more enjoyable to start playing as a charr, asura, sylvari, or norn, and thereby encourages more character race diversity. I fully support the train for this reason!

I’ve seen a fair number of posts on the forums from new players asking about or commenting on the game. But, I can’t say I’ve seen any complaints about the Queensdale Champ Train, except from the more experienced players. Hmmm….

If people want to join the zerg train, they can do so.

If people come across the Troll/Bandit/Boar/Oakheart out of sequence and want to fight him, they can do so.

Players do not “own” content in the game. Play it how you want.

There are 4 other starting areas without a train, and they aren’t exactly bustling with activity.

Focusing on a few small places in of 1 out of 5 starter area’s and asking it to be nerfed just so everyone else has to play the game the way you want it to be played is a bit self centered. More people like it than people who don’t.

Disrupting the trains is fun.

Zaxares.5419:

If people want to join the zerg train, they can do so.

If people come across the Troll/Bandit/Boar/Oakheart out of sequence and want to fight him, they can do so.

Players do not “own” content in the game. Play it how you want.

If a player heads out to a champion by himself with the knowledge that a ‘zerg train’ is a few minutes away, is it wrong for him to kill it? He could farm materials and other mobs in the vicinity while waiting for the 20+ people to arrive so that could acquire credit as well. They certainly didn’t truck all the way down to farm mats.

But I also agree: Every player should be able to play how they want. A person killing a champ by himself shouldn’t be an issue.

Ultimately, I feel that this is one of what could be SEVERAL issues as to why desirable champion rewards came this late into the game.

The game is designed to be played by zerging. So it’s perfect that there’s a zerg going around in starting areas — let’s new players learn how to zerg.

Well end game truly does start at level 1. I’m not against the train, trash talk over map chat happens a lot in low level zones across all the mmos I’ve played. Plus it’s hardly disruptive it’s only small sections of the map. If they removed it it certainly wouldn’t be replaced :-(

Lord Kuru.3685:

The game is designed to be played by zerging. So it’s perfect that there’s a zerg going around in starting areas — let’s new players learn how to zerg.

No it’s not. The developers have outright stated that the Zerging is a problem from both a technical and gameplay standpoint, and are trying to find ways to reduce it without penalizing smaller-scale spontaneous groupings.

Sartharina.3542:

Lord Kuru.3685:

The game is designed to be played by zerging. So it’s perfect that there’s a zerg going around in starting areas — let’s new players learn how to zerg.

No it’s not. The developers have outright stated that the Zerging is a problem from both a technical and gameplay standpoint, and are trying to find ways to reduce it without penalizing smaller-scale spontaneous groupings.

They can say whatever they want, but in reality, all their recent content have been zerg oriented.

The few times I’ve been in QD, mainly when i was levelling my human necro, when I came across the Champ troll or whichever champ I was near, I’d see if there were other players in the vicinity and just say chat that the champ was up, never map chat. I know the behaviour of the train too well to care about them.

In fact, on occasion it’s amusing to see the horror that some of them feel the need to express when they realise that the train has been ninja disrupted. On a number of occasions I’ve popped in say-chatted to nearby ppl that a champ was up, killed it then walked up the hill to watch the train roll in and everyone stand around for a while stupidly only to realise the champ was down already and that they’d just wasted a couple of silver for no reason. The rage is quite amusing. Other times I’ll pop in and help a couple of newbies nuke a couple of champs out of sequence of the train.

wolvenra.9617:

Flissy.4093:

Aidan Savage.2078:

The main reason people champ train in Weeniedale is not because it’s a starting area, not because it drops t6 resources, not because it drops 5s a champ bag, but because it’s fast. 4 champs in 10 minutes. It’s hard to beat that sort of speed and still be efficient.

SE Path 1, 5 champs in about 5 minutes. Over twice as effective as any train there is.

Not everyone wants to go through the hassle of finding a dungeon group.

The train is fine. Leave it alone.

There is absolutely no hassle at all in finding a dungeon group. Check and see if there are any groups doing the path you want. If there is, join. If not, start one. Simple.

Troll is in a cave where most new players won’t even go unless randomly exploring.
Bandit is near a Vista people would get but the train doesn’t affect that.
Oak is mostly in its own spot and the train again doesn’t affect new players.
Boar is out of the way on a hill and doesn’t affect new players.
Wasp doesn’t spawn as often but again simply does not affect new players.

The Champions in Queensdale are mostly in their own areas and does not affect the progress, enjoyment or learning curve of any new players. Every MMO has annoying people on chat, that’s nothing new and definitely not unique to GW2. In fact, GW2 has one of the most pleasant communities out of all the MMOs I’ve played over the years.

People will complain about something no matter what. Anet wanted GW2 to be rich in open world content, sure Anet doesn’t always go about things right but it’s their game. GW2 is also designed to be heavy on Zergs so why not introduce a new player to Zergs early on.

Unless you really play slow, it really doesn’t involve much time at all to 100% Queensdale and move on to the next zone. People have the right to play the way they want to. I personally think Champ farming is an utter waste of time and highly inefficient but some people prefer lazy farming in hopes of getting a get rich drop here and there.

first of all, OP could clearly inform himself better if he wants to open such a thread. the meagre silver pieces are completely irrelevant in “training”. And the FG train is not more challenging, some people prefer QD because they haven´t unlocked the map or find the route more convenient.

That being said, players will always encounter “get off my lawn” trash talk in many maps. Ignore, block, report, whatever. Personally, I don´t care much about QD, sometimes I hop in there when I want to finish dailies before leaving for work. I cannot imagine how people can stand “training” for hours, a major part of that being hanging out at the boar spot without any action. But that is their decision. Many new players will probably not even notice what is going on in QD. Most new players, if not all, will be completely unable to win against any champ there. A new player with any gaming skill will probably consider “training” for days a huge waste of time and very boring, I doubt he will be kept there and become a bad player. A bad player, apparently THE target audience for GW2, will not improve, neither in Orr, nor in QD, as clearly shown by recent harder LS events. Just let it go, we don´t need another QD thread every other week.

While I was helping a friend of mine leveling in Queensdale, I noticed two players who were especially rude, toxic and profane. I added them to my friends list.

Now every time I see them online training in QD and I have nothing better to do, I invite some guildies to start killing champs in random order. They usually log out after 15 minutes or move to another area. .

Garrisyl.7402:

While I was helping a friend of mine leveling in Queensdale, I noticed two players who were especially rude, toxic and profane. I added them to my friends list.

Now every time I see them online training in QD and I have nothing better to do, I invite some guildies to start killing champs in random order. They usually log out after 15 minutes or move to another area. .

well, if you think that behaviour makes you any better than those two, you are wrong.

Algreg.3629:

well, if you think that behaviour makes you any better than those two, you are wrong.

Just playing the way I want, mate.

Garrisyl.7402:

Algreg.3629:

well, if you think that behaviour makes you any better than those two, you are wrong.

Just playing the way I want, mate.

well, if that marketing claim includes repetitive griefing of targeted specific players, I guess we can just drop all rules of conduct in this game. And I am certainly not your “mate” if that is your general mindset.

if people have a go at you for killing a champ when you are not part of the train, give them the middle finger.. seriously they have no right to abuse players for killing any mob on any map..

they do not own the map
they do not own the champion
they do not own you

someone gets mad for killing their train champ.. go kill more…

Garrisyl.7402:

Algreg.3629:

well, if you think that behaviour makes you any better than those two, you are wrong.

Just playing the way I want, mate.

And yet , you don’t want other people to play how they want

I think champ trains as a whole need to be killed off. To me, it’s far too rewarding for content that is so easy (and boring) to complete. The way I see it, ANet needs to rebalanced player rewards so that more difficult content becomes more rewarding, while easier content is less rewarding. It’s the only thing that makes any sense. O_o

I’d say they need to limit it so that champs only drop their loot bags once a day per character. That way killing a champ will still be rewarding if you happen to encounter one in an event, but farming them continuously will no longer be feasible. They could also implement a system where completing an event for the first time in a day yields greater rewards, but repeating that same event multiple times in a day yields less rewards with each subsequent completion. That way, you also can’t just use the trains for endless karma or exp farming.

As of now, if a player who is unaware of the train runs into a champ and kills it (which is in no way an offense) is immediately insulted in map chat. It happens so often that I see it every time, even though the only thing I do in that map is Behemoth.
So every player must stay away from harder mobs now, so that they don’t offend the train runners? Nothing against trains themselves, but the aggressive behavior towards people who don’t take part in it is in every sense wrong.

Garrisyl.7402:

Algreg.3629:

well, if you think that behaviour makes you any better than those two, you are wrong.

Just playing the way I want, mate.

Griefing and harassing is excluded for “the way i want”

Woljnir.7810:

wolvenra.9617:

Flissy.4093:

Aidan Savage.2078:

The main reason people champ train in Weeniedale is not because it’s a starting area, not because it drops t6 resources, not because it drops 5s a champ bag, but because it’s fast. 4 champs in 10 minutes. It’s hard to beat that sort of speed and still be efficient.

SE Path 1, 5 champs in about 5 minutes. Over twice as effective as any train there is.

Not everyone wants to go through the hassle of finding a dungeon group.

The train is fine. Leave it alone.

There is absolutely no hassle at all in finding a dungeon group. Check and see if there are any groups doing the path you want. If there is, join. If not, start one. Simple.

SE p1, has been one of the longer lfg’s in my experience.
Most lfgs for that path are about having “x AP’s”, being a war/guard. Mesmers get in too. If you’re not one of these you could be (and I have been) waiting awhile for a group.
Granted I often play in the morning, so there’s less people at that time, but out of all the dungeons(even fracs) that I regularly pug for, SE is one of the longer ones to get a group set up for.

I now, no longer start an lfg for it, only join in when my friend (a guard) tags along, no one wants to join a necro(ele/ranger or engie) on se. And if you end up with a pug of light/med armour, I can guarantee it will take you much longer than 10min to complete. (and it’s likely your group will fall apart as they do not know how to play without stacking at golems. )

anyway, the queens train doesn’t really disrupt gameplay.
I’ve noticed very little of train anger, though more now with megaserver.(makes me think, my server was calmer about the whole train.)

If a champ got killed out of sequence, they ignored it and kept going. Sometimes they’d ask “second train on map? please wait for 1st train” etc. Though boar will often join any groups.

I’ve also noticed (before megaserver mostly, as you now get similar responses in other maps.)
There’s more help in queens.

I stupidly done a jp there with my ele at low level and died at the grubs. Not wanting to wp and give up the chest I asked if anyone on map would help. 3 people, came to the rescue.
I’ve had similar experience in queens with events and what not. With megaserver this is now occurring in other maps, but it used to just be queens. They are in general quick to help new players.

I don’t understand people being bothered by something they do not have to play.

Garrisyl.7402:

Algreg.3629:

repetitive griefing of targeted specific players

Ah, yes. This is an interesting claim indeed. Can griefing the griefers be considered griefing? Have they deserved it? Isn’t it better to grief two guys before they can grief the entire Map? Is it just of me?

So many questions, so few answers.

The champ train is toxic, and something should be done about. This chat isn’t what new players should have to see.

No, that is quite a clear claim, not interesting at all. Yes, it can. And google “vigilantism” if you find any time in between your griefing endeavours.

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

I think champ trains as a whole need to be killed off. To me, it’s far too rewarding for content that is so easy (and boring) to complete. The way I see it, ANet needs to rebalanced player rewards so that more difficult content becomes more rewarding, while easier content is less rewarding. It’s the only thing that makes any sense. O_o

I’d say they need to limit it so that champs only drop their loot bags once a day per character. That way killing a champ will still be rewarding if you happen to encounter one in an event, but farming them continuously will no longer be feasible. They could also implement a system where completing an event for the first time in a day yields greater rewards, but repeating that same event multiple times in a day yields less rewards with each subsequent completion. That way, you also can’t just use the trains for endless karma or exp farming.

Since this thread appears every week let me just copy/paste from the other threads the tl/dr of what you are saying

tl:dr – “You get something I want by doing something I don’t feel like doing and yet you get rewarded for it. I don’t want you to get rewarded by doing something I don’t feel like doing myself.”

Algreg.3629:

Garrisyl.7402:

Algreg.3629:

repetitive griefing of targeted specific players

Ah, yes. This is an interesting claim indeed. Can griefing the griefers be considered griefing? Have they deserved it? Isn’t it better to grief two guys before they can grief the entire Map? Is it just of me?

So many questions, so few answers.

The champ train is toxic, and something should be done about. This chat isn’t what new players should have to see.

No, that is quite a clear claim, not interesting at all. Yes, it can. And google “vigilantism” if you find any time in between your griefing endeavours.

And properly-targetted vigilante activities in-game, just as in real life, dramatically improve the quality of the world for everyone who isn’t a scumbag.

Sartharina.3542:

Algreg.3629:

Garrisyl.7402:

Algreg.3629:

repetitive griefing of targeted specific players

Ah, yes. This is an interesting claim indeed. Can griefing the griefers be considered griefing? Have they deserved it? Isn’t it better to grief two guys before they can grief the entire Map? Is it just of me?

So many questions, so few answers.

The champ train is toxic, and something should be done about. This chat isn’t what new players should have to see.

No, that is quite a clear claim, not interesting at all. Yes, it can. And google “vigilantism” if you find any time in between your griefing endeavours.

And properly-targetted vigilante activities in-game, just as in real life, dramatically improve the quality of the world for everyone who isn’t a scumbag.

And who defines what is/isn’t acceptable ? You ?

Tuntz.8953:

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

I think champ trains as a whole need to be killed off. To me, it’s far too rewarding for content that is so easy (and boring) to complete. The way I see it, ANet needs to rebalanced player rewards so that more difficult content becomes more rewarding, while easier content is less rewarding. It’s the only thing that makes any sense. O_o

I’d say they need to limit it so that champs only drop their loot bags once a day per character. That way killing a champ will still be rewarding if you happen to encounter one in an event, but farming them continuously will no longer be feasible. They could also implement a system where completing an event for the first time in a day yields greater rewards, but repeating that same event multiple times in a day yields less rewards with each subsequent completion. That way, you also can’t just use the trains for endless karma or exp farming.

Since this thread appears every week let me just copy/paste from the other threads the tl/dr of what you are saying

tl:dr – “You get something I want by doing something I don’t feel like doing and yet you get rewarded for it. I don’t want you to get rewarded by doing something I don’t feel like doing myself.”

Actually, what I’m trying to say is that I don’t really understand the logic of the reward system. Why do games reward repetitive, boring content, rather than rewarding fun, challenging content? It’s almost as if the devs are trying to say that they don’t want us to have fun and that they want us to grind if we want rewards. I’m not saying I don’t want others to be rewarded, but I want people to be rewarded for having fun because that’s what a game should be all about.

Is that a bad thing? Unless, of course, people find grinding the exact same champs, along the exact same path over and over and over again fun…