Guild Wars 2

So, let’s assume for a second that both parties are right, in their desire to play the way they want.

How about, just a thought, utilizing the “megaserver” technology here. The first priority for this map would be the character level. Softly separate the genuine “low” level (/new) players from the lvl 80 train.

Kinks to be ironed out of course.

Aeolus.3615:

Its not griefing, its called to interrupt enemy actions and objectives.

IF players dont want to be killed, Queensdale is open 24/7 i think.

Enemy actions? We’re talking about the PvE train in Queensdale, are you talking about EotM? Because that is a PvP zone and, yes I agree, any red nameplate is a fair target in PvP.

Nerf the kitten out of QD-train and move it to say, Timberline Falls? A gorgeous looking map with no whatsoever replayable content in it.

As previous mentioned again and again. The train is not per say wrong to exist but the toxic players(and I might say that’s only a handful of everyone doing the train) are making it look bad. Most of the players doing the train just shrugs it off with a “hey, it’s a newbie zone” and moves on. But if I meet 10 new people and out of those 10, 1 is a complete kittenface I will remember that person instead of the other 9. That’s the toxic image QD-train shows.

Champ train should in my opinion be amongst the end-game content. It’s a brainless, relaxing(personal opinion) way of make a slow but steady profit in the wallet and bank but allas, it should be in the end game. And that end-game content doesn’t fit in the starter zone.

And excuses such as people will most likely never even see the train in QD when they’re new to the game. That’s BS. I’ve done the train and I’ve seen numerous times people coming to the zerg and be like “wow why are there so many people here?”. And I’ve even on one occasion helped a new player with which waypoints he should take for the campions. I might add he became bored and logged out after 10 mins( :p )

The train is anyway only profitable for a lvl 80 if you want mats and money. The bags which drops for lower-level players only contains green gear for their level at best. And in really rare occasions, a rare. But it’s alot more profitable for a newbie to explore the world instead of doing champ-train. They learn the game mechanics much better and also get a better picture of the different choices of gameplay the game provides.

As a lvl 80(even downscaled), I agree champ train can be relaxing and also a slow profit.

But as a level 1 to, let’s say, 68 I would be bored kittenless.

Nerf the QD-train, move it to another higher level zone, problem solved.

Iluzija.1798:

Its not the train thats the issue its the people. Also difficulty finding a group for a dungeon? Takes like 2 mins tops with the lfg tool.

To find a group yes, but will probably be inefficient and thus its not 5 minutes for 5 champs (if that is really how it is) anymore.

Pifil.5193:

Aeolus.3615:

Its not griefing, its called to interrupt enemy actions and objectives.

IF players dont want to be killed, Queensdale is open 24/7 i think.

Enemy actions? We’re talking about the PvE train in Queensdale, are you talking about EotM? Because that is a PvP zone and, yes I agree, any red nameplate is a fair target in PvP.

Right on ;D
My bad and was half reading other Thread.

Aidan Savage.2078:

The main reason people champ train in Weeniedale is not because it’s a starting area, not because it drops t6 resources, not because it drops 5s a champ bag, but because it’s fast. 4 champs in 10 minutes. It’s hard to beat that sort of speed and still be efficient.

Speak for yourself… I run it for the 5 slot bags.

@CaptnRio: I have a good reason why the Queensdale champ farm is a good thing. New players in that starting map see a ton of activity in the map and map chat and it makes the world feel alive. Most players don’t care what theya re doing as long as there are a lot of people to do it with. They are Bartle Test “Socializers”.

There is no thing that can turn players off faster than seeing a dead starter zone. Most people in MMOs roll humans when that option is available (which is always) so it makes perfect sense to make a starter area a farming zone.

MikaHR.1978:

Garrisyl.7402:

Algreg.3629:

well, if you think that behaviour makes you any better than those two, you are wrong.

Just playing the way I want, mate.

Griefing and harassing is excluded for “the way i want”

And being rude, offensive, and creating a toxic atmosphere for everyone else is not excluded? Hardly reasonable. Now, if I’m in the mood to kill champions, and Weeniedale champs happen to be the easiest for me to kill, it’s irrelevant if such an unwanted and unnecessary individual happens to be on the map. There is no designated and enforced “order” to do content in the game. If I want to kill the Troll champ while everyone’s at Boar, I have the god kitten ed right to do so. If I want to kill Oakheart while everyone’s at Bandit, I have that god kitten ed right to do so too.

You say griefing and “harassing” players. I say it’s playing however the hell I want within the rules, and having fun doing content whenever and wherever I choose to. That toxic player who happens to be on the map? They’re the one griefing and harassing players with the filth they vomit into chat.

Ken DeBoer.9268:

…
Speak for yourself… I run it for the 5 slot bags.

:)

I think most of the train haters don’t really understand why some of us run the Q train – it’s not for the drops. It’s for the champions, group events and events needed for dailies and monthlies. I have several level 80 but mostly use my low level alts, even though the rewards are not as good. I’d run the train even if the champs didn’t drop a single thing.

I was doing the train a lot until recently. Now, I do world bosses instead:

5:15 – Maw, 5:30 – Ugloth, 5:45 – Fire Ele, Dinner, 6:45 – Shadow B

Then I level other characters. I agree that the arguing about the rotation for QD Train is getting a bit old.

Aidan Savage.2078:

MikaHR.1978:

Garrisyl.7402:

Algreg.3629:

well, if you think that behaviour makes you any better than those two, you are wrong.

Just playing the way I want, mate.

Griefing and harassing is excluded for “the way i want”

And being rude, offensive, and creating a toxic atmosphere for everyone else is not excluded? Hardly reasonable. Now, if I’m in the mood to kill champions, and Weeniedale champs happen to be the easiest for me to kill, it’s irrelevant if such an unwanted and unnecessary individual happens to be on the map. There is no designated and enforced “order” to do content in the game. If I want to kill the Troll champ while everyone’s at Boar, I have the god kitten ed right to do so. If I want to kill Oakheart while everyone’s at Bandit, I have that god kitten ed right to do so too.

You say griefing and “harassing” players. I say it’s playing however the hell I want within the rules, and having fun doing content whenever and wherever I choose to. That toxic player who happens to be on the map? They’re the one griefing and harassing players with the filth they vomit into chat.

yeah you can do what you want. But if you are intentionally killing champs out of order, that is pretty inconsiderate of others. You have every right to do it, sure, but you do so knowingly at the expense of others.

If you waited like 5 minutes you kill just kill the champ with everyone else and everyone wins.

it’s just like in WvW, you’re totally free to hop in that Golem at keep and cruise around. It’s pretty inconsiderate towards the person that made it to use later, but yeah play how you want.

Lankybrit.4598:

I was doing the train a lot until recently. Now, I do world bosses instead:

5:15 – Maw, 5:30 – Ugloth, 5:45 – Fire Ele, Dinner, 6:45 – Shadow B

Then I level other characters. I agree that the arguing about the rotation for QD Train is getting a bit old.

What does Dinner drop???

Rouven.7409:

Lankybrit.4598:

I was doing the train a lot until recently. Now, I do world bosses instead:

5:15 – Maw, 5:30 – Ugloth, 5:45 – Fire Ele, Dinner, 6:45 – Shadow B

Then I level other characters. I agree that the arguing about the rotation for QD Train is getting a bit old.

What does Dinner drop???

Well after you beat it and acquire its loot you get to go to the Mystic T.

But even with that rotation, don’t you still have spans of time just sitting around? I can’t imagine any of those in that rotation to take the whole 15 minutes to complete.

Rouven.7409:

Lankybrit.4598:

I was doing the train a lot until recently. Now, I do world bosses instead:

5:15 – Maw, 5:30 – Ugloth, 5:45 – Fire Ele, Dinner, 6:45 – Shadow B

Then I level other characters. I agree that the arguing about the rotation for QD Train is getting a bit old.

What does Dinner drop???

A bunch of crap about 6 hours later.

skullmount.1758:

Rouven.7409:

Lankybrit.4598:

I was doing the train a lot until recently. Now, I do world bosses instead:

5:15 – Maw, 5:30 – Ugloth, 5:45 – Fire Ele, Dinner, 6:45 – Shadow B

Then I level other characters. I agree that the arguing about the rotation for QD Train is getting a bit old.

What does Dinner drop???

Well after you beat it and acquire its loot you get to go to the Mystic T.

But even with that rotation, don’t you still have spans of time just sitting around? I can’t imagine any of those in that rotation to take the whole 15 minutes to complete.

Well, there’s opening the chest, bags, coffers, whatever and using the TP with the results. There’s getting to the next spot – I always go to Vigil’s Keep first and portal to the closest city for cheaper WPs.

Scrambles.2604:

I too have found peace in running combat log instead of chat. Though i miss guild chat messages…but that’s a UI problem.

Not really .. you can simply turn of map chat why still seeing guild chat and whispers. Creating an extra tab for that is normally one of the things i always do in any MMO. Still after Everquest 2 this is the first MMO where i seldom felt the need to turn of map chats.

Beldin.5498:

Scrambles.2604:

I too have found peace in running combat log instead of chat. Though i miss guild chat messages…but that’s a UI problem.

Not really .. you can simply turn of map chat why still seeing guild chat and whispers. Creating an extra tab for that is normally one of the things i always do in any MMO. Still after Everquest 2 this is the first MMO where i seldom felt the need to turn of map chats.

yeah, i know. It’s not that i run the combat log to purposely avoid map chat, i just value the info in combat log more than the info in map chat, haha. If i had it my way i could view the combat log and chat log at the same time.

Scrambles.2604:

yeah, i know. It’s not that i run the combat log to purposely avoid map chat, i just value the info in combat log more than the info in map chat, haha. If i had it my way i could view the combat log and chat log at the same time.

I have a chat tab called “Important Chat”. It only shows the combat log, system messages, Guild Chat, Party Chat, and Whispers.

mtpelion.4562:

Scrambles.2604:

yeah, i know. It’s not that i run the combat log to purposely avoid map chat, i just value the info in combat log more than the info in map chat, haha. If i had it my way i could view the combat log and chat log at the same time.

I have a chat tab called “Important Chat”. It only shows the combat log, system messages, Guild Chat, Party Chat, and Whispers.

cool, i’ll check it out. It’s been a while since i messed with it.

Keeping it on topic— Map chat has never really bothered me. As long as it’s not someone spamming the same thing or gold sellers, i don’t mind seeing people chatting about whatever. I don’t know, all those years of barrens chat has probably made me a little more tolerant.

I’m all in favour in getting rid of the Champion Train in Queensdale, for the sole reason of the map chat abuse. People swearing, calling people names, screaming and shouting and being disruptive from both sides of the argument (train and non-train) should be enough reason for it to be scrapped, especially in a zone where there are many new players, whom I feel sorry for the most.

It’s not fair that someone spends £30+ on a game, log in, and have to see some of the filth that is said in map chat just because someone’s killing a champion out of turn. There are far worse things happening in the world guys!

However, how can this be done? I personally think that bringing back The Crown Pavilion would do well (or implement something similar), as many people used that for repetitive champion killing, and hardly a sore word was ever said.

It keeps higher level farmers away from the starting zone, it will greatly reduce the map chat grieving, and new players will actually find help when they need it too when they first start the game!

:)

viralthefrog.6130:

I hate the toxic attitude people get in /map when the train is disrupted by someone that doesn’t know any better.
In fact, when I watch flame wars erupt because someone who knew no better disrupted the train, I usually go out of my way to disrupt the train as much as possible.

Here I thought I was the only one that felt this way.

Loathing. That’s what hits me whenever I need to travel through Queensdale these days, whether it be for map completion or some other goal. The noxious atmosphere around that “train” is admittedly bringing out the troll in me. I’ve never claimed to be one before, but I won’t deny that I have been of late – in Queensdale.

ArenaNet, I know you can’t stop trains. People will always find a way to make a speedy profit somewhere, somehow. However if it were truly your desire to clean up Queensdale and make it more welcoming to new players, I believe you could. NERF it into oblivion so they go to farm elsewhere. Sadly I’ve little faith that you will do this… The Queensdale train is not new to GW2 and you’ve decided to let it slide this long.

I agree with the OP, not that my opinion matters.

I do run in the Queensdale “champ train” from time to time as well. Sometimes I enjoy running around killing some easy bosses. I’d still do it if they all were downgraded to Elite. Map chat is highly toxic though. If there were a way of keeping the train, and also relieve the toxicity of the chat, that’d be perfect. Sadly, I don’t know that it’s possible without dissolving the train in entirety.

One thing i can’t figure out is why someone with a star next to their name and a legendary in each hand woud do the QD train. I know since the 15th one of those could be a skin but I’ve been seeing this since the train began. I think if you got a star and 1 legendary you should only get event credit and not the champ bags.

Silvercyclone.1462:

One thing i can’t figure out is why someone with a star next to their name and a legendary in each hand woud do the QD train. I know since the 15th one of those could be a skin but I’ve been seeing this since the train began. I think if you got a star and 1 legendary you should only get event credit and not the champ bags.

Some people farm karma, some people farm bags (don’t know why) but its certainly not for the money gain when you factor in wp costs. A lot of people level alts on it.

EDIT: Oh and champ/event daily.

It’s only four or five specific places, and in my experience, if one of those champions is up, the zerg will be there in under 60 seconds anyway. If I want to shoot at the troll until they get there, that’s my own business. If you’re really worried about super-efficiency, be faster. Entitled kids.

Silvercyclone.1462:

One thing i can’t figure out is why someone with a star next to their name and a legendary in each hand woud do the QD train. I know since the 15th one of those could be a skin but I’ve been seeing this since the train began. I think if you got a star and 1 legendary you should only get event credit and not the champ bags.

They might want items to sell, they might want xp for skill points, they might hope for a precursor, they might like commanding, they might be doing their monthlies. Plenty of reasons, the biggest one being: it’s a valid half efficient source of income.

Scrambles.2604:

Foosnark.1784:

Oh, and I love exploring and finding stuff, whether it’s a sarcastic NPC or a beautiful view or a champion event.

And this thread made me realize I just keep map chat turned off. I wonder if that gives me a more positive outlook toward the game and its player base?

I too have found peace in running combat log instead of chat. Though i miss guild chat messages…but that’s a UI problem.

Otherwise, while i have seen vitriol in the QD map chat, more often than not, it’s either quiet or just the occasional “train?” followed by a map location. I see the same amount of “toxicity” in QD as i do in WvW, dungeons, and LS.

Doesn’t that statement in itself tell you something of the toxic nature of trains… those same players take that same self righteous attitude into other facets of the game .. hence the word – Toxic.

We get it, ANET are playing both sides of the thin red line.. they try to cater for those of us wanting hard challenge, coordinated events (trashed by Megaserver imo, but that’s another story) and on the other the easy loot farm fanatics that prefer to run around in circles hoarding as much as they can, as fast as they can and treading over anyone that doesn’t conform to their precious rotations… then of course ANET screw over those who enjoyed running the harder events by trashing spawn times and megaserver malarkey.. yet leave the toxic trains alone all be it with a minor smidge of coin taken away in the hope it will have such a dramatic effect.. errm it didn’t! in fact they have gotten worse imo cos its even more important for the train to safeguard its rotation more than ever.. ANET needs to take a trip down Queensdale or Orr once in a while, take a deep breath while the maps load and see how many butterflies they can count in an hour.. sorry I meant champ bags.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Scrambles.2604:

Foosnark.1784:

Oh, and I love exploring and finding stuff, whether it’s a sarcastic NPC or a beautiful view or a champion event.

And this thread made me realize I just keep map chat turned off. I wonder if that gives me a more positive outlook toward the game and its player base?

I too have found peace in running combat log instead of chat. Though i miss guild chat messages…but that’s a UI problem.

Otherwise, while i have seen vitriol in the QD map chat, more often than not, it’s either quiet or just the occasional “train?” followed by a map location. I see the same amount of “toxicity” in QD as i do in WvW, dungeons, and LS.

Doesn’t that statement in itself tell you something of the toxic nature of trains… those same players take that same self righteous attitude into other facets of the game .. hence the word – Toxoc.

Nope. You have toxic pvp’ers who never/hardly ever train. Not the train’s fault. You have WvW’ers with toxic attitudes as well. Again, not the train’s fault. You have dungeon-runners with toxic attitudes. Not the train’s fault.

Why do some people have toxic attitudes? Because they’re human, thats all there is to it. They’re equally toxic about tv shows or music or sports or any other thing in their life. Its how they are.

You get rid of the QD train, you just relocate the toxicity. Maybe thats a goal, but I promise you it won’t be gone at all. So those new players will see toxic chat in a 25-35 zone, or a 50-60, or wherever. Please rationally explain how toxic behavior in one map is better than toxic behavior on another?

The issue is the attitudes, not the activity. I’m sorry to be insulting but if you think trains cause the behavior, you should try thinking about the issue for more than 5 seconds.

I never minded the champ train in Queensdale much since I rarely went there, partly due to the champ train. I always thought it was a bad place for this kind of playstyle since it could give an extremely bad impression to new players though. Having a map almost roped off as the champ train / key farming zone I suppose is not too bad, if it wasn’t in a starting zone.

I think the Queen’s Jubilee offered an interesting alternative to open world champ trains. Maybe give the people who enjoy champ trains (nothing wrong with that) their own designated zone/area/instance, almost like a mini-game. Sadly EotM has basically become this already I suppose.

Not to be off topic but this is happening more in other maps as well as Queensdale.

As an inevitable byproduct of the megaserver there’s now a continual champ train in Cursed Shore. This was one of the maps I used to spend a lot of time in to test my skills against champs, test out builds and do events that were actually challenging for the small groups that would organically form.

Now champs are killed almost the moment they spawn. Events are trivialized and completed by a huge zerg hoping from event to event, champ to champ. With the increase in population on all maps of farmers and bots normal mobs are starting to become scarce too. If there ever was anything challenging in Orr it is gone now.

With the introduction of the megaserver if left completely unchecked I’d expect to see a lot more champ trains like the one in Queensdale running in other maps. Some will welcome this, some won’t.

I am a noob in Guild Wars 2 ‘just started 2 weeks ago’ I’m a Battlefield/Elder Scroll kinda guy. Now a Battlefield/Elder Scroll/Guild Wars 2 guy Love this game!

So this is a noobs take – for what its worth.

I saw the QD train at the Boar and had no clue what was going on, so I watched and jumped in on killing the Boar and was lost when they all TPed to the Troll. I got my reward from killing the Boar and waited about 10 minutes in that same spot and all these people were back at Boar again. I asked what was going on and they said its the Queensdale Train… “not to look stupid I Googled it” I thought… oh wow this is so good, I can level up and get good stuff fast.

After a couple of hours a day for a few days doing the Boar, Troll, Bandit and Oak… ’in between doing hearts and exploring, I went back and looked at my progress and compared the Train against Exploring.

I got better loot and XP exploring and playing the game.

I wasted a few days of game play doing that QD lame train.

To me its more rewarding and just more exciting taking on the a tough monster alone or jumping in the fight with another player… if you go down, you go down.

I don’t care if you want to Zerg or Train Queensdale… but your just wasting your time. It didn’t really hurt my Queensdale experience or hurt learning how to play the game.

Now after 2 weeks I have lv16 Mezmer lv16 Guardian lv35 Ranger lv34 Warrior – I would never do a Zerg/Train again. “the Mezmer rode the QD train”

But anyways love the game.

The Queensdale champ train is a good way for level 80 characters to get Skill Points and for all characters to get their monthly/daily events/champion kills done.

For any other purpose, there are vastly better options available.

Derez.6510:

I got better loot and XP exploring and playing the game.

I agree. If I want to get XP and levels, I just explore, do heart quests as I encounter them, discover areas and waypoints, mine nodes when I see them, and kill random monsters as I’m exploring.

Though, sometimes, I just don’t feel like doing all that. Sometimes I do enjoy “jumping on the train”. I do occasionally have fantastic conversations. This is rare however, as it seems to have grown more toxic lately. I can’t really say why I enjoy the occasional QD train, I just do sometimes.

I happen to agree with those players who call you a troll. You know this is a function yet you go out of your way to interrupt the function, you don’t wait for other players, and you actively tell them that they shouldn’t play that way. Guess what you are the problem, not the trainers.

If you don’t like doing the train go to another area and level there are I know 5 other zones in the same level range that you could be doing things in events, champions, metas, all without trains and yet you stay in QD to mess with people.

I supposed you go out in traffic and tell people they aren’t driving the way they should be either and to illustrate your point you adjust the lights so they remain red long enough to stop traffic just to make your point over a loud speaker while walking around at the stop light. Sorry to ruin your thread with reality, but you are being the inconsiderate one, not these other players.

That being said, there’s three things wrong with what Anet is doing that has led to the train and we’ve told them about it for over a year now, 1: rewards are terrible and restricted to only certain activities in the open world, when you combine this with loot manipulation and DR you get things like this happening because people will try to find the best most efficient way possible to make gold. This just happens to be it for open world players ever since they made it severely disproportionate to what one receives while in WvW and Dungeons. They know they scared off most of the open worlders when they did this and they know it didn’t do a single thing to stop the bots but it’s still happening because I guess they haven’t finished revamping the rewards system yet. 2: combat is a zerker zerger style mentality right now. They know this too, thus the change in burst stats. They need to increase the damage output of condi and allow CC to not be an immunity and actually function some of the time, and healing to actually be a solid part of the Anet trinity.

And finally there’s a problem with the megaserver system as players don’t have direct control into which channel they are located or the ability to switch outside of a guild setting. They’ve received mention in multiple threads about this and I’m sure that once they allow players direct control the need to jump in and interrupt the train will at least slow down if not stop.

I also agree with others in the thread that new players do not generally get the best xp or rewards from the champion fights because I too simply explored, Vistas/PoI/discoveries/WP and gathered which combined with crafting was a faster method of leveling than dealing with extremely difficult mobs.

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

Tuntz.8953:

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

Actually, what I’m trying to say is that I don’t really understand the logic of the reward system. Why do games reward repetitive, boring content, rather than rewarding fun, challenging content? It’s almost as if the devs are trying to say that they don’t want us to have fun and that they want us to grind if we want rewards. I’m not saying I don’t want others to be rewarded, but I want people to be rewarded for having fun because that’s what a game should be all about.

Is that a bad thing? Unless, of course, people find grinding the exact same champs, along the exact same path over and over and over again fun…

What’s boring to you might be fun for others , instead of asking to nerf an activity that you consider boring, ask the dev’s to increase the reward of what you think is fun and challenging.

Well, isn’t it the same result either way?

No. It is a difference between both sides being equally happy, or equally miserable.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Sartharina.3542:

Lord Kuru.3685:

The game is designed to be played by zerging. So it’s perfect that there’s a zerg going around in starting areas — let’s new players learn how to zerg.

No it’s not. The developers have outright stated that the Zerging is a problem from both a technical and gameplay standpoint, and are trying to find ways to reduce it without penalizing smaller-scale spontaneous groupings.

They can say whatever they want, but in reality, all their recent content have been zerg oriented.

It’s more accurate to say that all their recent (and temporary!) content is designed to not be roflstomped by zergs. Zerg is an issue, which makes most content really easy, and because they hadn’t created a solution yet they’ve geared it to work with zergs in mind.

Regarding champ trains. Typically, I’m against it because it spikes hostility in the community. But I’m more against it in a starting zone. I don’t really care if a train existed in Harathi or Frostgorge, but in Queensdale or Kessex it’s a bit more problematic to me – personal opinion, though.

The idea of a zerg train won’t be destroyed unless ArenaNet somehow manages to make zerging worse than small groups (like they did with Escape content for getting the citizen bag rewards). So rather than trying to undo such things, it’d probably be better for everyone to try and relocate the trains.

Which is why I don’t get the bigger nerfs to Frostgorge’s train than to Queensdale’s train. To me, the Queensdale one is the problem more than Frostgorge – Frostgorge’s train was only an issue because it would result in massive overflows when Claw spawned, leaving those wanting to do Claw unable to do such – and this is no longer an issue ever since the megaserver update.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Lord Kuru.3685:

They can say whatever they want, but in reality, all their recent content have been zerg oriented.

It’s more accurate to say that all their recent (and temporary!) content is designed to not be roflstomped by zergs.

Untrue. Recent introducion of megaserver and changes to World Boss schedule were definitely zerg-promoting (and very permanent).

Astralporing.1957:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Lord Kuru.3685:

They can say whatever they want, but in reality, all their recent content have been zerg oriented.

It’s more accurate to say that all their recent (and temporary!) content is designed to not be roflstomped by zergs.

Untrue. Recent introducion of megaserver and changes to World Boss schedule were definitely zerg-promoting (and very permanent).

Agreed. With the introduction of megaservers AND world boss scheduling, I’d say Anet only wants people to zerg. Its why I have little faith that Queensdale will ever be a welcoming environment.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

many of us have had less-than-optimum experiences when new to a game, yet we persevere.

Except why should you have to persevere in a game? There’s a problem if that what we have to do lol.

For all these supporting (whether they use it or not) or on the fence about the train – riddle me this: why does it have to be in a starter zone? Would it really be so bad if they bumped it over to say, Kessex Hills or somewhere? Still 0/10 on the difficulty scale, still easy to reach and if Queensdale can be completed and moved on from so quickly, then new players can reach the train’s new location quickly. Simple.

I’m all for an inefficient farming route in a low level zone, potentially with some less than desirable people using it. But does it have to be one of the first things a new player encounters? The number of times I see new players ask for advice and being told ‘the train is the fastest way to level up, stay here until level 80’, etc. They’re new, they’ll believe this. Even if the experience is competitive… the game will just seem like a strange combination of train simulator and farming simulator set in a nice green field.

One last note: we know Anet wants to do something about the train, as we saw last update – surely moving it somewhere still easily accessible is better than nerfing it and probably all champion loot everywhere?

Chameleon Dude.1564:

For all these supporting (whether they use it or not) or on the fence about the train – riddle me this: why does it have to be in a starter zone? Would it really be so bad if they bumped it over to say, Kessex Hills or somewhere? Still 0/10 on the difficulty scale, still easy to reach and if Queensdale can be completed and moved on from so quickly, then new players can reach the train’s new location quickly. Simple.

I’m all for an inefficient farming route in a low level zone, potentially with some less than desirable people using it. But does it have to be one of the first things a new player encounters? The number of times I see new players ask for advice and being told ‘the train is the fastest way to level up, stay here until level 80’, etc. They’re new, they’ll believe this. Even if the experience is competitive… the game will just seem like a strange combination of train simulator and farming simulator set in a nice green field.

One last note: we know Anet wants to do something about the train, as we saw last update – surely moving it somewhere still easily accessible is better than nerfing it and probably all champion loot everywhere?

I feel like they could do what they did to the Spider. Downgrade the champions to Elite. Over in Kessex Hills, upgrade a few to Champions. =)

With the way they’ve destroyed leveling, the train is the only real viable way, and at least there is less running than the EotM train.

The end is the start of a new beginning….

Thus….

Queensdale train over? NP! Let start one at other starter map.

Alexander.5782:

I feel like they could do what they did to the Spider. Downgrade the champions to Elite. Over in Kessex Hills, upgrade a few to Champions. =)

This is a good idea. Remove champions from all 1-15 zones by replacing them with Elites. Just relocate the QD train to Kessex or the like. The train runners can have their mind numbing farm and the starter zones can be free of it.

I’d say people who purposely kill champs “out of order” to get retribution on rude people are making the map even more toxic.

You’re not teaching anyone a lesson when you do that, the type of people who get upset over someone randomly killing a champ are already unreasonable people, you’re just going to make them more upset.

On top of that, some of those who normally don’t care when a champ is randomly killed, will care when they find out someone is doing it on purpose to troll, causing even more arguments in map chat.

Worst of all, once it’s been established someone is actually trolling the train, mob mentality starts to occur, and any innocent new player that has the misfortune being around the troll, gets lumped right along with them, and even with that, it’s still a minority of the zerg. Is it right? No, but it happens.

Second, while I’ve seen some very atrocious things said in queens map chat (and reported them), I feel some of the things seen as verbal abuse, aren’t even worth taking offense over. Here is a similar example of a comment people have considered to be abuse that I’ve seen both on the boards, and in game, I wouldn’t say it, but I don’t see it as offensive either.

“I wish there was player killing in this game.”

I don’t know, /shrug, to me someone saying they wish they could kill you in game is a joke.

Azhure.1857:

Alexander.5782:

I feel like they could do what they did to the Spider. Downgrade the champions to Elite. Over in Kessex Hills, upgrade a few to Champions. =)

This is a good idea. Remove champions from all 1-15 zones by replacing them with Elites. Just relocate the QD train to Kessex or the like. The train runners can have their mind numbing farm and the starter zones can be free of it.

Why make the 1-15 zones play any differently from the rest of the games, for example take a look at traits, you unlock them at 36 but wait some of them require you to do something many times higher in level.

Or you can pay cash and skill points?

Lucky the train bags drop skill scrolls and coin right?

Cactus Brawler.7415:

With the way they’ve destroyed leveling, the train is the only real viable way, and at least there is less running than the EotM train.

I respectfully disagree. I find that I get more XP/Levels faster by exploring, mining, heart/story questing. I do this as well as the “train” both. A lot of the time, I find that I can get some achievements done faster by joining the “train”. Mostly, however, I get most of it done by what I mentioned before.

To all those who are saying that the train doesn’t affect new, low level players – it does, because they all ask what the easiest way to level/get gold is, and the train responds with “the train” which low level players listen to, since “train people must have experience in game”. I’ve seen it happen way too many times, and it sucks when you get a guardian in your dungeon party who got to 80 in a train, and then when you ask him for wall because the pew pew is killing you, you get a response ‘whats a wall lel" .Im not saying that this is the case with all the people who were a part of the train, but it definitely didn’t help anyone master their class while sitting in a zerg spamming 1-5. I also killed oak one time alone because I didn’t feel like waiting for a train (play how you want). Because of that I am now a troll and I can go **** myself because I’m selfish. I’m sick of the volatile attitude that train tends to have, and if I dont feel like dealing with it I should just “go to another area and stop QQ”. That is not the solution, because then I cant play the game the way that I want to. My suggestion would be to increase all QD champ respawn timers to every 10-15 minutes. That way low level people can regularly do the events, and still get good loot and xp without getting hate for summoning a champ “too early”.

As a new player that recently completed Queensdale here’s my take-

When I kept seeing people ask in chat where the train is I assumed it was a real train, perhaps one that took players to other areas. I wondered why the stations weren’t marked on the map.

Later I bumped into a group of players and joined in killing the boar. I certainly wouldn’t have attempted it on my own. I noticed that all the players in the group were level 11 which I thought odd, as I was the only level 10 there. Afterwards some kind chap explained the process and waypoints in order. I attempted to join in but kept losing my way or arrived too late. Eventually I just stayed by the tree-beast chap and waited for the train too catch up which then got too boring.

It was all rather exciting for twenty minutes and I certainly didn’t feel higher levels were ruining anything for me. My only concern is that if leveling up at higher levels is so tough or dull that one is willing to do the Queensdale train it must be very bad indeed.

There’s already a train in Kessex. Not as active as the Queensdale train but it’s pretty continuous. I personally would rather not have to choose which maps get taken over and set aside for those who want to champ train.

Really think the Queen’s Jubilee champ farming instance (Crown Pavilion) had a lot of potential to make both sides happy.

JiveTurkey.1763:

My only concern is that if leveling up at higher levels is so tough or dull that one is willing to do the Queensdale train it must be very bad indeed.

Thats also one of the problems. Other zones in the game are all beautiful and interesting in their own way, and leveling is way faster when you’re exploring new zones and enjoying the view, meeting new people, encountering new types of enemies, and so on. It sucks that you got that impression of the game and the leveling system so early on, because it means that you are not the only one who feels that way. Other low level people probably got the same impression while riding the good ol’ boring train. I strongly recommend switching zones and exploring everything. Just running around doing nothing and randomly unlocking waypoints and points of interest will give you so much xp and you wont even know how it happened.