Guild Wars 2

I can’t understand your idea of balancing, ArenaNet. Please, could any dev enlighten me, because all you do is upsetting your playerbase even more.

Thank GOD you’re nerfing SoI, it needed it massively, at least in WvW. In PvE…sadly another thing to adapt the meta to.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Thank GOD you’re nerfing SoI, it needed it massively, at least in WvW. In PvE…sadly another thing to adapt the meta to.

Oh.

YOU could adapt to it too. But nonetheless, boonsharing will still be a thing, SoI and Revs are just a part of the problem, enjoy destroying PvE and still having perma boons on WvW.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Thank GOD you’re nerfing SoI, it needed it massively, at least in WvW. In PvE…sadly another thing to adapt the meta to.

Seriously???? SoI did nothing but highlight the problem, SoI was not the kittening problem.

The problem is twofold

A – Way too much access to boon duration after HoT

B – HoT classes fart out boons everytime they take a step

Of course any boonsharing skill will highlight those facts, but that doesn’t make the boonshare skill the problem.

@OT – I have mixed feelings about what I hear here. You say you are going to “look at” nerfing the boon duration on facet of nature, but nothing about the other, equally ridiculous, accesss to boon duration. You say more nerfs are incoming for mesmer, without actually addressing the base problem of too many boons being generated left and right. I just doubt that this balance patch will be effective

Everyone here is panicking over just a couple of things that they have said they are going to reduce/nerf, just wait until tuesday and see what they actually do rather than jump to a conclusion.

Oh wow. So now I will HAVE to use Illusionary Inspiration, I will HAVE to save my phantasm skills to use them during Continuum Split to have 4 Signets of Inspiration, I will HAVE to use a Sigil of Concentration and I will HAVE to work a weapon swap into my rotation to get my boon duration to 100%, making my rotation even more rigid than it was.

GG “balance” team.

Mini Crinny.6190:

Everyone here is panicking over just a couple of things that they have said they are going to reduce/nerf, just wait until tuesday and see what they actually do rather than jump to a conclusion.

It’s the same over reactions that happen every time. It’s always “the sky is falling”.

thank you for destroying my favorite class… Again. RIP mesmers.

Nerf:

1) Precision strike from revenant;
2) Remove the second block from mesmer shield and sPvP will be perfectly balanced;
3) Nerf confusion logaritm too, this is actually really OP at sPvP. I always got about 40~50k of confusion damage when i’m facing chronomancers;
4) Equilibrium also need nerf in its damage;
5) Nerf Facet of Light healing percentage!!!!!
6) Finally, nerf druid stealth from Celestial Shadow!

GG, best balancing ever!

Nerfing Naturalistic Resonance is defensible. Revenants are too important right now due to their interaction with chronos. While I don’t like the idea of being forced to stat swap my chronomancer set from Berserker to Commanders, I think it’s defensible.

However, normalizing boon duration shared from Signet of Inspiration is a massive, massive problem. A huge part of the skill floor on chronomancers is ensuring that you’re optimizing your boon duration as you apply your boons to yourself (through properly timed weapon swaps procing Sigil of Concentration). Once this is done properly, Signet of Inspiration shares that benefit with the rest of your group. If Signet of Inspiration has a normalized boon duration on share, then it’s actually somewhat pointless to maintain a proper weapon swap rotation.

To make matters worse, this actually kills several Chronomancer builds. For example, Gravity Well is currently viable (and indeed, optimal for several fights!), since it is possible for a full-Berserker chronomancer with perfect weapon swapping, boon food and a Revenant to maintain 100% quickness uptime solely generating with Well of Action, Chronomancer Runes and Tides of Time, and solely sharing via Signet of Inspiration. That build instantly dies if you normalize the boon duration on SoI.

Basically, I don’t see why you would normalize SoI. It kills build diversity. It further inhibits raid composition diversity (by pushing groups toward multiple chronomancers). It significantly drops the skill floor on chronomancer by removing nearly all of the reward for a perfect rotation. It even nerfs the impact of gearing choices, since commanders gear and/or platinum doubloons will have no impact on SoI-shared boons.

In general, this is the wrong duration for PvE balance in this game. The skill floor and build diversity of chronomancer is something that other classes should aspire to. More importantly though, this change takes the biggest problem in the current PvE game and makes it even worse: composition diversity. Right now, 4/4/2 dominantes (two druids, two berserkers, four dps, one revenant, one chronomancer). That’s a 10 man raid group where only 4 slots have any choice about what they’re doing. Technically, mirror-comp (which is what everyone will run if these changes go live) still only has 4 slots that are fungible, but it removes the ability to bring a Revenant at all, which lowers class diversity considerably.

The balance team should be focusing on giving raid teams meaningful choices in their composition, either by adjusting the potency of buffs or by improving the strength of the alternatives. At best, these changes don’t move the needle; but more likely, these changes take a bad problem and make it worse.

I’m not opposed to a duration nerf for the boons on SoI, but I hope it isn’t so short that it makes it useless. ArenaNet has a tendency to make drastic changes that make things useless.

nsleep.7839:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Thank GOD you’re nerfing SoI, it needed it massively, at least in WvW. In PvE…sadly another thing to adapt the meta to.

Oh.

YOU could adapt to it too. But nonetheless, boonsharing will still be a thing, SoI and Revs are just a part of the problem, enjoy destroying PvE and still having perma boons on WvW.

40+ seconds of Resistance, Protection, and Quickness, over a 20+ person group. It’s beyond ridiculous. No other boons are that much of a gamechanger but those 3. You can still do a party wide Protection and Resistance, but Resistance won’t go over 25s and Protection, while being able to go over 40s, requires a Revenant to stay in Glint and use all their energy. It’s not viable in WvW battles short of you being a worthless boon bot in battle.

roamzero.9486:

I really hope they’ve looked at Warrior’s ability to stack perma-resistance. That kittens broken.

It also affects warrior ability to stack permanent might. In PvP where life siphon and corruption make short work of resistance comes at the cost of the only viable, team PvE build is now nullified making warrior the profession that brings absolutely nothing, to any team, of any form in any game format.

InsaneQR.7412:

Bovan.9481:

Where are the Engineer changes and buffs?

Good question, engi was left out a lot lately.

Btw, when is the new balance patch coming time wise? 1 Week/ 2?

Good question, but very unclear what they are going to do with, i see anet could throw Engineers to any direction they want right now (except to a srapper buff, it would put him tier 1 in PvP), so the path that we are going to follow its not designed yet.

It’s so sad when people been relying on one style of play they forget that there is more than one way to play PvE. No class should be that important where it IS the meta.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Depending on your chosen profession and your role in combat, these changes may require some stat-swapping on your gear. We feel that giving a bit of a “heads-up” is appropriate.

given that the next balance patch is going to be forcing stat swapping in high-level play, could you not have done something about the price of Hardened Leather – which is both stupidly expensive, unfarmable, and required in horribly unbalance amounts for exotic insignia – which will be needed to stat swap gear.

woah now lets not be hasty. chronos don’t need any more nerfs. they are already doing no damage as is doing full rotations, when other classes push 2 buttons and put out 5 times as much damage. can we take a step back and realize how bad chronos are in the game right now?

Everyone’s reaction to Signet of Inspiration and Revenant is key in realizing that the problem goes way beyond that. Build diversity shouldn’t matter on those two things. If Anet can Nerf SoL and normalize Revenant boons but at the same time buff other things (VENTARI comes to mind, Mesmer DPS), then it won’t be that bad. But it seriously depends on what Anet will put in place of that. Signet of Inspiration and Glint Boons shouldn’t define so much for raids. In a way, I agree with it ONLY if Anet can successfully benefit revenant and Mesmer with other buffs.

Triggered.1850:

It’s so sad when people been relying on one style of play they forget that there is more than one way to play PvE. No class should be that important where it IS the meta.

Yeah, it’s sad. It’s as if raids are not being low-manned, beaten with everyone not using elite specializations, beaten with everyone as a single class, or beaten with minutes to spare. But reduce boon duration by an undisclosed amount and now raids are impossible without two Mesmers. To think that percentage it’s being reduced by contributed so much…

Gaile Gray.6029:

One of the most notable changes being made is to the healing values of the Druid as a primary healer. Base values for the Celestial Avatar heals will be reduced, while the healing power contribution will be enhanced significantly. The reasoning for these changes is that while we are excited about the Druid being an incredibly strong healer, we would also like to see that role as one of many choices in your attribute build.

Ok, so this changes absolutely nothing in pvp, the meta uses hp and it’s actually a buff for that. My guess? You’re removing Mender’s amulet, right?
For pve it tries to remove zerker/viper’s druids, which are mainly used in meta comps, but magi’s largely required by pug mentality already.
Where do you see the “one of many choices” part if you’re killing two offensive/support builds (zerker/viper’s) in favor of one already dominant healing/support choice (magi’s)?
I fail to see how this improves anything… not that I am surprised.

If Revenant Facet of Nature passive boon duration is being nerfed, is the Active effect One With Nature being buffed to compensate?

So druid in raids and fotm healing will be forced to magi or zealot. It has its ups and downs.

I’m wondering where the stealth nerf for thieves is? In WvW the other day we had a thief standing still not being hit in a corner for over a minute stealthed. We knew he was there because of the orange dot. We threw everything in the corner where he was supposed to be and nothing. We finally got him with an old fashioned stealth trap when he moved on the wall(stealthed all the way to the trap before being hit). With that we had enough time to kill him before he could perma-stealth again.

At the moment, the PvE-Meta is without a doubt the best Meta since launch of the game. Every class is viable in Pve, and many classes even have multiple build options. If this changes go live, revenant will be dead in pve.
Depending on how well the chrono will be able to spread quickness, people will either run two chronos or none. If people run two chronos, thief will be dead as well, because it doesn’t benefit from alacrity, and ele will once again be untouched king of dps.
Regarding the druid-changes, depending on how strong the healing nerf will be, it might kill the condi and the berserker build and thus limit the druid to only one viable build.

Triggered.1850:

Weow, pve scrubs can’t handle change while rest of game suffers? Don’t rely solely on one build

No doubt and its not that bad being leadership runes with food already give you close to 100% boon duration without even using the f2 skill. When I use that particular set with shiro mode I don’t even use that f2 skill because it interferes with the quickness/super speed so its really not that big of a deal personally. Then again for some the changing like it happens this game is not for them but its one of the aspects that kept me in gw1 and gw2 is that things change and keeps game play worth playing.

Lendruil.9061:

At the moment, the PvE-Meta is without a doubt the best Meta since launch of the game. Every class is viable in Pve, and many classes even have multiple build options. If this changes go live, revenant will be dead in pve.
Depending on how well the chrono will be able to spread quickness, people will either run two chronos or none. If people run two chronos, thief will be dead as well, because it doesn’t benefit from alacrity, and ele will once again be untouched king of dps.
Regarding the druid-changes, depending on how strong the healing nerf will be, it might kill the condi and the berserker build and thus limit the druid to only one viable build.

Raids do not equal all of PvE. Especially so since the majority of players apparently don’t raid.

Jaberse.8726:

this is going to NUKE raid composition diversity.

these nerfs, if they go through are basically going to FORCE people to run a mirror comp of

Subgroup1: Commanders Chrono – druid – PS – dps – dps
Subgroup2: Commanders Chrono – druid – PS – dps – dps

-or-
Subgroup1: Chrono (with some boon duration gear) – druid – PS – Rev – dps
Subgroup2: Chrono (with some boon duration gear) – druid – PS – Rev – dps

this is cancer, this demolishes the flexibility and diversity of the current raid meta. if you want to nerf boons for WvW you guys should split it form the other PVE metagame like you guys did for PvP. otherwise youre going to ruin the diversity of raids in favor of catering to the zerg meta in WvW. and frankly these changes wont change anything at all in WvW zerging

Rising Dusk.2408:

OlliX.1705:

As it stands now every class has at least one viable build in raids. If we’re going to be forced to run mirror comp in order to cover the whole party for quickness, revenant won’t be needed in raids and classes that don’t benefit much from alacrity will be pushed out by other classes that benefit more from it. I fear that this patch may kill the great build diversity we currently enjoy.

Yeah, the proposed changes are devastating to PvE build and class diversity and awful for the health of the game.

sureiamdead.1087:

Nerf the Signet of Inspiration in WvW, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don’t touch it in PvE. You will destroy several builds, teamcomps and overall classes (Revenants, Guardians and Thiefs) with this change alone. This is not a good change and you’re forcing the players, especially the Raid community, to play the same comp and classes. Currently every class has it’s place in PvE, even the NECROS and RANGERS which were considered for a long time Trash-tier. Don’t mess this up now.

This. This. This.

Do not just drop “We’re nerfing a bunch of kitten” without telling us what you are going to do to answer the potential fallout caused by these changes.

When people heard leaks about chronomancer nerfs to signet of inspiration of two weeks ago this was the resounding conclusion. That the team compositions would shift considerably to account for the necessity of two chronomancers for quickness uptime.

The revenant gets pushed out because it was originally kept mostly for its Fury production and the boon duration Naturalistic resistance conferred to Chronomancers allowing them to maintain quickness for the entire raid group. Two Chronomancers fill the void that the Revenant was holding onto by a whisper.

Thieves get pushed out because ALACRITY does NOT benefit them nearly as well as it does the current damage focused classes like Elementalist and Guardian. When we get two chronomancers we get more Alacrity that needs to be utilized more effectively.

Changing druid base heal effectiveness and moving into scaling ruins build diversity because it takes away heavily from allowing for mixed druid builds that can fit a variety of team compositions or scenarios that you encounter in raids whether it means needing more direct damage, needing more condition damage, or needing just a straight healer. If you really wanted to make healing the more clear choice you would just increase the healing power scaling of certain druid skills.

If you wanted to promote build diversity outside of druid for the base Ranger class you might consider finally accepting that base PvE ranger needs damage boofs.

Instead you are threatening to push the damage that is just barely worth using out of potential alternative druid builds.

If you need to balance things for WvW balance them for WvW, but please continue to
SPLIT the changes between the game modes because this is actually INCREDIBLY CRUCIAL to the health of this game.

Klypto.1703:

Triggered.1850:

Weow, pve scrubs can’t handle change while rest of game suffers? Don’t rely solely on one build

No doubt and its not that bad being leadership runes with food already give you close to 100% boon duration without even using the f2 skill. When I use that particular set with shiro mode I don’t even use that f2 skill because it interferes with the quickness/super speed so its really not that big of a deal personally. Then again for some the changing like it happens this game is not for them but its one of the aspects that kept me in gw1 and gw2 is that things change and keeps game play worth playing.

so what other build is viable for rev in raiding? oh thats right there is none. telling peoplr to git gud when the only option is to switch classes is bs.

Gaile Gray.6029:

For Mesmer, we’re looking at making Signet of Inspiration’s boon sharing functionality a bit more controlled, giving each shared boon a fixed duration.

Chronomancers are already the most desired class in the LFGs. Now all raid comps will require two of the class that people do not like to play, and people will have to wait for groups even longer, while other classes (like revenant) will be moved out of the team comp.

If it’s affecting WvW, then only nerf it in WvW?

We’ve already had Well of Precognition purged and alacrity cut to a limping state.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Base values for the Celestial Avatar heals will be reduced, while the healing power contribution will be enhanced significantly.

Then please look into a HEALING/power/precision stat set, so that we do not waste stats running Magi. But I guess if it will come, it will come in the next expansion when people have already made their Magi sets, and people will have to stat swap and change runes and sigils again.

Anything about rescuing Thief support builds and Venoms?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Swap-Revealed-Training-with-Leeching-Venoms/first#post6257237

Ayrilana.1396:

Lendruil.9061:

At the moment, the PvE-Meta is without a doubt the best Meta since launch of the game. Every class is viable in Pve, and many classes even have multiple build options. If this changes go live, revenant will be dead in pve.
Depending on how well the chrono will be able to spread quickness, people will either run two chronos or none. If people run two chronos, thief will be dead as well, because it doesn’t benefit from alacrity, and ele will once again be untouched king of dps.
Regarding the druid-changes, depending on how strong the healing nerf will be, it might kill the condi and the berserker build and thus limit the druid to only one viable build.

Raids do not equal all of PvE. Especially so since the majority of players apparently don’t raid.

Balance does not revolve around low levels of play it revolves around high levels of play where the real squeezing of build and class efficiency comes into play. Like it or don’t if you weren’t playing a meta build or something like it to be able to effectively clear the more difficult content, balance changes are basically not a concern to you.

If competitive games like League balanced around their weakest players as opposed to their strongest players it would shift the balance of the game dramatically and not in a good way, they already went over this exact issue several years ago.

Will this come next tuesday with Halloween?

Triggered.1850:

It’s so sad when people been relying on one style of play they forget that there is more than one way to play PvE. No class should be that important where it IS the meta.

In that case they should focus on nerfing necros and other dps classes first.
There’s a reason why you can see “meta 4 necro + druid” or “5 necro meta party” for high level fractals.

Lendruil.9061:

At the moment, the PvE-Meta is without a doubt the best Brain-Dead Meta since launch of the game.

I correct this.

I hope this patch is of epic proportion.

We’re expecting:
1- Separate balance for all gametypes
2- The return of build variety
3- balance between HoT and core builds
4- Improvements to traits that aren’t used
5- Massive Improvement to skills and weapons that aren’t used or have been nerfed needlessly
6- A new meta for WvW where small organized groups can win against larger groups once more
7- reduction of condition damage across the board
8- tweaks to skills that are too slow or hard to land
9- Reduction of cooldown on skills that aren’t that great
10- good elites for all classes

Tenchu The Wolf.3418:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lendruil.9061:

At the moment, the PvE-Meta is without a doubt the best Meta since launch of the game. Every class is viable in Pve, and many classes even have multiple build options. If this changes go live, revenant will be dead in pve.
Depending on how well the chrono will be able to spread quickness, people will either run two chronos or none. If people run two chronos, thief will be dead as well, because it doesn’t benefit from alacrity, and ele will once again be untouched king of dps.
Regarding the druid-changes, depending on how strong the healing nerf will be, it might kill the condi and the berserker build and thus limit the druid to only one viable build.

Raids do not equal all of PvE. Especially so since the majority of players apparently don’t raid.

Balance does not revolve around low levels of play it revolves around high levels of play where the real squeezing of build and class efficiency comes into play. Like it or don’t if you weren’t playing a meta build or something like it to be able to effectively clear the more difficult content, balance changes are basically not a concern to you.

If competitive games like League balanced around their weakest players as opposed to their strongest players it would shift the balance of the game dramatically and not in a good way, they already went over this exact issue several years ago.

Well tell that to those stating that revs are dead in PvE. Revs may or may not be part of the optimal group composition after the update, but they will still be very much viable in all aspects of PvE including raids.

I don’t think breaking WvW compositions is a good idea..

I want to know WHY this changes. I don’t just wanna read “we will do this cause…..nothing”

Please explain why you decide to make this change? or someone tell me if i missed it.
Who cares if some teams can 6 man a raid? that must be like the 1 % of the population.
Who cares if they sell them and win hundreds of golds?
The pool of players being left out of Raids is already big enough, and to restrict it to even fewer classes doesn’t sound too good.
So again, why this call?…

Ayrilana.1396:

Triggered.1850:

It’s so sad when people been relying on one style of play they forget that there is more than one way to play PvE. No class should be that important where it IS the meta.

Yeah, it’s sad. It’s as if raids are not being low-manned, beaten with everyone not using elite specializations, beaten with everyone as a single class, or beaten with minutes to spare. But reduce boon duration by an undisclosed amount and now raids are impossible without two Mesmers. To think that percentage it’s being reduced by contributed so much…

Then they should nerf the damage, not the boons, lol.
You won’t see things like “meta 5 revenants” or “meta 5 mesmers” LFGs. You will however see “meta 5 necro party” for high level parties all the time.

I’m all up for nerfs, but they should really be BALANCED, not just random. By balancing it correctly, all classses should get some kind of a spotlight in a party,
but the way they do it, they are just pushing more classes out of it.

cranos.5913:

Boon changes lead to a mirror comp. 2 warr, 2 druid, 2 chrono leaving only 4 spots for the DPS group. Look at it in whatever way you want, you pushed 1 spot out with this change. You’re killing diversity again as ele will take complete advantage of the extra alacrity to become top dog once more.

The druid changes make 0 sense. Druids had 3 viable builds and depending on how much you push this nerf you’ll end up with a single build now.

Congratulations, you’re once again ruining PvE balance for a totally different game mode.

Sort of. Druid having 1-2 viable builds makes sense in the long run, considering that Druid is a specialization. More of those will be introduced, which will further build diversity. However, having each specialization remain good with lots of different stat types kind of negates their purpose to specialize.

Spira.4578:

Ayrilana.1396:

Triggered.1850:

It’s so sad when people been relying on one style of play they forget that there is more than one way to play PvE. No class should be that important where it IS the meta.

Yeah, it’s sad. It’s as if raids are not being low-manned, beaten with everyone not using elite specializations, beaten with everyone as a single class, or beaten with minutes to spare. But reduce boon duration by an undisclosed amount and now raids are impossible without two Mesmers. To think that percentage it’s being reduced by contributed so much…

Then they should nerf the damage, not the boons, lol.
You won’t see things like “meta 5 revenants” or “meta 5 mesmers” LFGs. You will however see “meta 5 necro party” for high level parties all the time.

I’m all up for nerfs, but they should really be BALANCED, not just random. By balancing it correctly, all classses should get some kind of a spotlight in a party,
but the way they do it, they are just pushing more classes out of it.

Only because players feel that they must have 100% quickness. Players themselves are playing a large role is forcing out classes/builds with their over reliance on only meta builds/compositions when other options are available that are almost nearly the same in effectiveness.

I am curious how much more time would be needed on average for a group using the existing meta compared to the same one after the update. What would the group DPS difference be when the Rev is dropped for another chrono?

trouble.3562:

I want to know WHY this changes. I don’t just wanna read “we will do this cause…..nothing”

Please explain why you decide to make this change? or someone tell me if i missed it.

Gaile Gray.6029:

One of the most notable changes being made is to the healing values of the Druid as a primary healer. Base values for the Celestial Avatar heals will be reduced, while the healing power contribution will be enhanced significantly. The reasoning for these changes is that while we are excited about the Druid being an incredibly strong healer, we would also like to see that role as one of many choices in your attribute build.

Xillllix.3485:

I hope this patch is of epic proportion.

We’re expecting:
1- Separate balance for all gametypes
2- The return of build variety
3- balance between HoT and core builds
4- Improvements to traits that aren’t used
5- Massive Improvement to skills and weapons that aren’t used or have been nerfed needlessly
6- A new meta for WvW where small organized groups can win against larger groups once more
7- reduction of condition damage across the board
8- tweaks to skills that are too slow or hard to land
9- Reduction of cooldown on skills that aren’t that great
10- good elites for all classes

I advise you to lower your expectations.

WVW is unbalanced by nature… you can abuse from foods… and most important numbers. Balance fights only on spvp.

Nerfing SoI and Rev boon duration = REV is useless on raids (he was already useless in fractals) and 2 mesmers will probably be a must if you want perma quickness and alot of alacrity.

Too bad that just means less diverity for mesmer. It isn’t all bad. They are increasing mesmer damage and changing druid base healing. These two changes are great and what we need. Sadly menders druid will still be broken in pvp and SoI nerf will ruin mesmer pvp diversity as we need defense shaves and casting times on instant skills that can be used simultaneously.

Revenants with more damage? Oh, God

Deleting my revenants I guess.

Ayrilana.1396:

Only because players feel that they must have 100% quickness. Players themselves are playing a large role is forcing out classes/builds with their over reliance on only meta builds/compositions when other options are available that are almost nearly the same in effectiveness.

You take away a lot of a class effectiveness by doing so.
Both mesmers and revenants have more of a buffer role than a dps one, for obvious reasons. By nerfing their buffing capability, they lose their purpose and therefore, other classes might replace them.
In theory it’s okay, but then again, they should also nerf other roles to such extend (or buff other parts of mesmer and revenant) to make mesmers and revenants able to replace the roles of other classes as well. (For instance, necro condi damage, ele/thief dps, ect)

I am curious how much more time would be needed on average for a group using the existing meta compared to the same one after the update. What would the group DPS difference be when the Rev is dropped for another chrono?

I guess we’ll find it out soon.

Someone that deletes a Rev because of the stated change doesn’t deserve to play it anyways. It’s obvious the way it works now is much to strong to begin with.

Anet once again showing us how to make an ok game, start with a really good one then ruin it