Guild Wars 2

DiogoSilva.7089:

Different builds.

Let me repeat that.

Different builds.

Different builds.

The thing that everyone complaining always forgets about.

Mesmers and Thieves aren’t inherently better duelist classes. They do have, however, better duelist builds. There’s nothing that’s implying that Mesmers and Thieves will get Torment for their strongest builds – if anything, it’ll just open up new possibilities for condition builds, which Mesmers and Thieves are weak at. Also, both Mesmers and Thieves lack build diversity, and are pretty much stuck on one or two builds, so new food for conditions makes sense.

You don’t know how it will be implemented.

Let me repeat that.

You don’t know how it will be implemented.

You don’t know how it will be implemented!

I will say this again. Given Anet past history on “balance” everyone who doesn’t play a thief or mesmer has every right to be concerned about this.

Thief gets torment on auto attack pistol , mesmer on auto attack GS.

Review from last ’’balance’’ patches , this is the worst , they will definitely destroy the ’’pvp’’ (wvw) game.

Kitten of fiery torment, some of you people ping at anything.

Really, its just a preview and “new condition X” could be super awesome or super dumb or work just right. We won’t know until patch day and there is nothing we can do about it so…relax.

Amun Ra.6435:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Different builds.

Let me repeat that.

Different builds.

Different builds.

The thing that everyone complaining always forgets about.

Mesmers and Thieves aren’t inherently better duelist classes. They do have, however, better duelist builds. There’s nothing that’s implying that Mesmers and Thieves will get Torment for their strongest builds – if anything, it’ll just open up new possibilities for condition builds, which Mesmers and Thieves are weak at. Also, both Mesmers and Thieves lack build diversity, and are pretty much stuck on one or two builds, so new food for conditions makes sense.

You don’t know how it will be implemented.

Let me repeat that.

You don’t know how it will be implemented.

You don’t know how it will be implemented!

I will say this again. Given Anet past history on “balance” everyone who doesn’t play a thief or mesmer has every right to be concerned about this.

yeah, cause mesmers and thiefs are soooooooo scary to my necromancer.. a little hint, they are not at all, those 2 professions aren’t “OP” or anything, it’s just bad people being bad, yeah i lose probably 60% of my fights against them, but i still 40% of the time, and losing is mainly because they outplay me.

Look at gw1 and balance and you’ll see they have 1 of the most balanced games ever for PvP.

Azzer.8137:

Amun Ra.6435:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Different builds.

Let me repeat that.

Different builds.

Different builds.

The thing that everyone complaining always forgets about.

Mesmers and Thieves aren’t inherently better duelist classes. They do have, however, better duelist builds. There’s nothing that’s implying that Mesmers and Thieves will get Torment for their strongest builds – if anything, it’ll just open up new possibilities for condition builds, which Mesmers and Thieves are weak at. Also, both Mesmers and Thieves lack build diversity, and are pretty much stuck on one or two builds, so new food for conditions makes sense.

You don’t know how it will be implemented.

Let me repeat that.

You don’t know how it will be implemented.

You don’t know how it will be implemented!

I will say this again. Given Anet past history on “balance” everyone who doesn’t play a thief or mesmer has every right to be concerned about this.

yeah, cause mesmers and thiefs are soooooooo scary to my necromancer.. a little hint, they are not at all, those 2 professions aren’t “OP” or anything, it’s just bad people being bad, yeah i lose probably 60% of my fights against them, but i still 40% of the time, and losing is mainly because they outplay me.

Look at gw1 and balance and you’ll see they have 1 of the most balanced games ever for PvP.

I somehow feel you will not find a lot of people who agree with you.

I really don’t think Torment is really going to buff thieves as much as Weakness is going to nerf them.

Really, turning 50% of all your attacks (including critical hits) into 50% of your base damage is a HUGE. Reducing your 200% damage crit to a 50% damage glance is a lot of damage.

Torment is nothing more than a root for anyone who pays attention to their status effects.

They shouldn’t touch thief and mesmer for a few patches…. like srsly they’re strong in their current state. If they don’t play condition is because power builds are faceroll, not because they’re weak.
Also thieves have a lot of access to weakness, like in their sword autoattack… it’s a huge buff for bruiser builds, whatever.

Torment is a new condition, so it will probably be intentionally scaled so that power/prec builds won’t benefit much from it. Hopefully, only condition users will be able to deal fair damage with Torment. I don’t see a lot of condition warriors so giving it to them would be a little worthless. Also, mesmers don’t have many speed burst options, so dishing out Torment might be a good way for them to deal with lack of movement options. Thieves…well, as I said: hopefully it’ll only hurt when specced condition.

Looking forward to all kinds of updates!!! Maybe I’ll dust the cobwebs off my Ranger. And now I’m even more eager to keep leveling my Mesmer. And new build possibilities for my Engi!? Yes plz! Weakness buff means my EG is even more useful!

Mesmers have already got a good access to confusion and retaliation. Giving them this new condition basically means that you will be mauled for everything you will do.
Want to hit them? Damage yourself. Want to use skills? Some more damage. Want to move toward them or escape? Guess what, more damage.
And thieves. Heh. Giving that condition to a class with that access to stealth? We are already forced to move just to try hitting them, now you’ll even be damaged for trying. Not to talk about their mobility.

Katai.6240:

I really don’t think Torment is really going to buff thieves as much as Weakness is going to nerf them.

Isn’t it amazing how many people are so quick to cry about what’s in the right hand they completely overlook what’s in the left?

It would be nice if they allowed us to exchange our ascended gear for other ascended gear pieces. After such a major balance update many builds will go useless and new ones are bound to appear. Many of our hard earned gear will become less effective or even useless for some or many of the new build arrangements.

Ascended gear cannot be bought or sold by players in the trading post and cannot be crafted, its just a grind mechanic that takes many hours and days until you get to have all of the ascended pieces.

I wish ANet was more respectful towards this and the hard work many of us put into the game by allowing us to exchange this hard earned items for other ascended items with different stats after major balancing updates like the upcoming one.

darkace.8925:

Katai.6240:

I really don’t think Torment is really going to buff thieves as much as Weakness is going to nerf them.

Isn’t it amazing how many people are so quick to cry about what’s in the right hand they completely overlook what’s in the left?

We can talk about it. For example, you need to hit the thief to give him weakness, possibly before he bursts down you. Except you can’t unless you are lucky and you hit him accidentally, due to stealth.

HELLruler.4820:

“Enemies under Torment will take damage periodically; as they move, they’ll take even more damage”

New class: Bloodseeker

If if seems new to you, then it’s only b/c you’re new to GW.

• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shameful_Fear
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weaken_Knees
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Binding_Chains
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Enduring_Torment

don’t worry, you won’t need a blink dagger just to counter it

I would like to personally thank our devs for posting these summaries of what changes will be coming in the next patch. I really, really appreciate them taking the time to allow us to know their thoughts, concerns, and proposed changes that they are making in an attempt to make GW2 even better for everyone. And I appreciate they they desire to make more diverse builds viable in GW2.

I do have one concern, however… the summaries read as if the changes are being made from the PvP point of view, which is going to change how WvW and PvE are played.

For example, most boss fights in dungeons do not have a boss running around. So is Torment going to be given to bosses as another AoE on players attempting to dodge and avoid damage? Will Torment have ‘any’ affect on boss encounters since they don’t really move? Even fighting world bosses like Jormag (who is essentially an animatronic puppet that doesn’t really do any moving), Torment would be useless, right? So this is a mechanic for playing against a dodging player in PvP, right?

How will weakness changes affect dungeon boss fights? Will it reduce a boss’ spike damage? Or is this designed only for use against other players in PvP?

The increase on stun breakers being spread out… that’s due to problems found in PvP, right? Have many PvE players requested more stun breakers for open world and dungeon content?

So, I guess my question is this: Is PvP controlling the way GW2 is played in WvW and PvE areas?

Major changes to builds are always a risky undertaking. Of particular concern was the statement:

“With these changes in mind, we are going to be making a few builds a little harder to achieve due to their extreme effectiveness. Some traits will go up in tier while increasing in potency to promote build variation.”

“extreme effectiveness” is a term used by those about to employ the nerfbat to indicate what we would call “successful” builds. I read this to mean that certain successful builds will no longer be obtainable. I don’t know what this means, but I hope I don’t have to change professions because of it.

Torment simply should not have been added to the game at this time. We are already at a level of complexity where balance is problematic. It is not particularly helpful to add another moving part to the mix. Don’t make the system more complex and then assume that you will have fewer problems balancing it.

That said, it’s probably better to wait, with the customary level of trepidation, to see what it all means.

Taran Redleaf.7912:

I do have one concern, however… the summaries read as if the changes are being made from the PvP point of view, which is going to change how WvW and PvE are played.

For example, most boss fights in dungeons do not have a boss running around.

The developers have said before that not all skills/traits/builds are equally viable across all game modes. So while a Confusion build might shine in PvP, the slow attack speed of most AI-controlled foes makes it all but worthless in PvE.

^Well obviously that’s why “skill splits” were supposed to exist in the first place.

,

I find it weird that they’re talking about all these Condition changes…
…yet they somehow leave out PvE specifics where diversity & conditions are the weakest.

25 stack limit on the most common conditions will still be a problem, right?
“Yellow” Structural Objectives are still unaffected by conditions even though a Poison by definition is a Corrosive that should eat through certain ones 2x faster than any Sword… Or Burning which is basically a Welder’s Torch & should go through others 4x faster…

This seems a bit short-sighted over all. Yeah I guess Taint Shekels should help Necs in PvE, but if it doesn’t always work on Elite-“silvers” & Champs then what was the point of it??? It says “check out the patch notes” … when? When it’s ready? Sounds like it already is ready if they can sound so confident in pitching it in this blog.

.

The last issue I see is Weakness just having a Random roll against Crits. It’s nice they’re finally admitting this was broken and underpowered. But why is it remaining Random Chance? It’s like they’re not even listening to us and all the R.N.G. hatred that’s been welling up everywhere lately. Preventing Crits was not a Random mechanic in GW1.

• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Stone_Sheath
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dulled_Weapon
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_of_Unfeeling

Knowing my stubbornness, I’m probably going to still play my Engineer after all these changes.

I do, however, would like to see what kind of options are opened up when it comes to more interesting high-damage builds that don’t rely too much on grenades. If I can still be competitive in high-level Fractals with a variety of builds and options, then that would be neat. If anything, I’d like to try using Flamethrower again since that’s what I used to level up my Engineer.

With that said, I’m also expecting grenades to get some kind of nerf, either a damage reduction or maybe a range reduction to 1200 units. I do find it somewhat strange that I can throw grenades way farther than the range of my regular bullets. Just a prediction there.

So there solution to balance was to increase the power of conditions AND add a new one? The problem is conditions, this will only make things worse. Every build will be forced to spam condition removal.

ilr.9675:

I find it weird that they’re talking about all these Condition changes…
…yet they somehow leave out PvE specifics where diversity & conditions are the weakest.

We’re getting a little ahead of ourselves here. True, they didn’t give PvE specifics; but these are just a preview, they didn’t give specifics about ANYTHING.

Really, really hate the torment changes for large scale wvw. Creates a situation where if you stand still you die, if you move you die.
One of the few means of outplaying a larger opponent is movement and adding a condition that punishes you for it is just …
Just please severly limit this condition in wvw or flat out remove it in wvw.

I hate, hate, hate this idea.

Also wish you’d balance whats in the game before adding stuff to it

darkace.8925:

ilr.9675:

I find it weird that they’re talking about all these Condition changes…
…yet they somehow leave out PvE specifics where diversity & conditions are the weakest.

We’re getting a little ahead of ourselves here. True, they didn’t give PvE specifics; but these are just a preview, they didn’t give specifics about ANYTHING.

Okay then I mis-used the word Specifics… Entirety of this Blog was mostly PvP Generalities. Where’s the PvE generalities?

I dont get it, are some ppl just bad? Calling mesmers and thiefs op… make no sense at all!!

It’s a condi thief buff, who were severely punished if you had any condi removal at all :p It’s probably not going to turn up in the power builds (or do enough damage to worry about, like retaliation is weak in condi builds).

Also

Dragnela.6532:

I dont get it, are some ppl just bad? Calling mesmers and thiefs op… make no sense at all!!

Is the truth, stop being bad. mesmers and thiefs are only op against bad pvpers.

Caid.4932:

Really, really hate the torment changes for large scale wvw. Creates a situation where if you stand still you die, if you move you die.
One of the few means of outplaying a larger opponent is movement and adding a condition that punishes you for it is just …
Just please severly limit this condition in wvw or flat out remove it in wvw.

I hate, hate, hate this idea.

Be glad that they made Spiteful Spirit a trait and didn’t port over the actual Necro Elite Skill from GW. “Elite Hex Spell. For 8…18…20 seconds, whenever target foe attacks or uses a skill, Spiteful Spirit deals 5…29…35 shadow damage to that foe and all adjacent allies of that foe.”

I like the idea of Torment. It’s analogous to Confusion except based upon movement rather than skill usage. Overall I think it’s quite clever and will be a fun mechanic. Another “shut-down” condition in the toolbelt of conditions.

I’m only concerned with the selection of professions that have access to it. I have a Mesmer and in-combat mobility is not an issue. Using Torment is not really necessary for a mesmer — it’s just DPS gravy. I feel similarly about thieves having Torment.

It really seems like a good condition for warriors and guardians. Warriors have disadvantages at range with a few gap-closers. Guardians are similar, and also have limited conditions at their disposal (you never see a condition guardian — no such option available!).

We don’t know the final implementation, or what “price” thieves and mesmers will have to pay to get Torment. Based upon previous experience, I don’t expect the best result in this first implementation.

haha this thread, it’s like torment one shots you if you move.

Sepreh.5924:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

Discuss

As a person who plays the mesmer quite a bit, I can state that giving Thieves and Mesmers Torment is, generally, a bad idea!

These classes, along with the Elementalist, are very slippery and mobile classes, requiring opponents to be equally mobile to stand a chance of defeating them. Giving them access to a condition which punishes an opponent for pursuing (or running away from) these classes is entirely too much.

I’m sure the developers already know what I just stated, but I am uncertain if they have really worked through all the implications of this.

Torment can be used to punish an opponent for acting both offensively and defensively. It can be used to help pin down an opponent and help you escape from one.

Fundamentally, I have seen the ArenaNet developers try hard to push GW2 players in ways that force them to become better at the game. One of the most, and perhaps the single most, important aspect in PVP is learning how to move and position yourself well. Creating a condition that punishes movement of any kind seems counterproductive to that goal, on the whole.

I think giving Necromancers access to Torment isn’t a bad idea, as they have intentionally designed Necromancers to be limited in mobility. However, I still think Torment is not good for the game in principle.

If Mesmers and Thieves get Torment, then basically ANet will have to balance Torment around the damage it does while a person moves. Doing anything otherwise would be pretty silly, and I think that would really marginalize the effectiveness of the DoT for classes like Necromancers.

What baffles me about the thread is the fact that people keep moaning that the most OP classes are getting a new condition. Meanwhile two paragraphs above the condition piece it clearly states that all classes will receive heavy updates across the board.

Why not wait five days, then we can all see who is still OP or nerved into the tarmac. But until then it’s sort of pointless to get upset over a matter that will soon be addressed.

As for me, I really like the idea of a torment, and hope more classes will be getting in on the tormenting action eventually. I’m also excited about the trait diversification that ANet will bring to the table. I’ve been rather vocal about traits being a bit bland, so this is great news to me.

Vol.5241:

juno.1840:

Vol.5241:

The new torment condition gives an unfair advantage to ranged classes. They should have just kept the way things are right now and stick with buffing confusion instead, since confusion is non-discriminatory among classes and melee/ranged

It will work both ways. A ranged class will take damage trying to kite you, just like you’d take damage trying to catch a kiter. I think we’ll have to see how it plays out.

The disappointing part of Torment is that it’ll be limited to thieves, mesmers, and necros. Two of those classes didn’t really need a buff by getting Torment. I think there were better choices including warrior.

A ranged class has the option of just standing still.
A melee class simply doesn’t (especially against any competent ranged class)

As a ranged class I spend less than 5% of my time standing still in wvw. A stationary target is a free kill in small man combat, looking at you longbow rangers on this one.

Azjenco.9425:

What baffles me about the thread is the fact that people keep moaning that the most OP classes are getting a new condition. Meanwhile two paragraphs above the condition piece it clearly states that all classes will receive heavy updates across the board.

Why not wait five days, then we can all see who is still OP or nerved into the tarmac. But until then it’s sort of pointless to get upset over a matter that will soon be addressed.

^This. And thread.

Fix permastealth, then we can speak about giving anything to thieves. They need group support skills, not condition that will make them even better 1v1.
Someone said it doesn’t matter for power builds (and they mostly run them). Not true. Even with 0 cnd dmg it’s still another source of dmg for them. It may even hit for 100 per tick and it will be a lot considering how much movement you need when fighting thief.
And yeah, ofc nothing about rangers…

Thedenofsin.7340:

Sepreh.5924:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

Discuss

As a person who plays the mesmer quite a bit, I can state that giving Thieves and Mesmers Torment is, generally, a bad idea!

These classes, along with the Elementalist, are very slippery and mobile classes, requiring opponents to be equally mobile to stand a chance of defeating them. Giving them access to a condition which punishes an opponent for pursuing (or running away from) these classes is entirely too much.

I’m sure the developers already know what I just stated, but I am uncertain if they have really played through the implications of this.

Torment can be used to punish an opponent for acting both offensively and defensively. It can be used to help pin down an opponent and help you escape from one.

Fundamentally, I have seen the ArenaNet developers try hard to push GW2 players in ways that force them to become better at the game. One of the most, and perhaps the single most, important aspect in PVP is learning how to move and position yourself well. Creating a condition that punishes movement of any kind seems counterproductive to that goal.

I think giving Necromancers access to Torment is an excellent idea, or for any class/build that is limited in mobility.

If Mesmers and Thieves get Torment, then basically ANet will have to balance Torment around the damage it does while a person moves. Doing anything otherwise would be pretty silly, and I think that would really marginalize the effectiveness of the DoT for classes like Necromancers.

Dont call the mesmer mobile -_-

arKRazor.8654:

As a ranged class I spend less than 5% of my time standing still in wvw. A stationary target is a free kill in small man combat, looking at you longbow rangers on this one.

Soooo true… I drool when I see longbow rangers standing still in WvW. Free badges!

I am really looking forward to these changes! I’d love to see some builds spiced up and am eager to try out Torment on my mesmer.

However, I exclusively PvE, so balance concerns are not as big for me.

arKRazor.8654:

Vol.5241:

juno.1840:

Vol.5241:

The new torment condition gives an unfair advantage to ranged classes. They should have just kept the way things are right now and stick with buffing confusion instead, since confusion is non-discriminatory among classes and melee/ranged

It will work both ways. A ranged class will take damage trying to kite you, just like you’d take damage trying to catch a kiter. I think we’ll have to see how it plays out.

The disappointing part of Torment is that it’ll be limited to thieves, mesmers, and necros. Two of those classes didn’t really need a buff by getting Torment. I think there were better choices including warrior.

A ranged class has the option of just standing still.
A melee class simply doesn’t (especially against any competent ranged class)

As a ranged class I spend less than 5% of my time standing still in wvw. A stationary target is a free kill in small man combat, looking at you longbow rangers on this one.

I’m LB ranger, you can watch my movie on YT and maybe learn sth new about this “weapon that doesn’t even kill critters!!11111”.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Sepreh.5924:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

Discuss

As a person who plays the mesmer quite a bit, I can state that giving Thieves and Mesmers Torment is, generally, a bad idea!

These classes, along with the Elementalist, are very slippery and mobile classes, requiring opponents to be equally mobile to stand a chance of defeating them. Giving them access to a condition which punishes an opponent for pursuing (or running away from) these classes is entirely too much.

I’m sure the developers already know what I just stated, but I am uncertain if they have really played through the implications of this.

Torment can be used to punish an opponent for acting both offensively and defensively. It can be used to help pin down an opponent and help you escape from one.

Fundamentally, I have seen the ArenaNet developers try hard to push GW2 players in ways that force them to become better at the game. One of the most, and perhaps the single most, important aspect in PVP is learning how to move and position yourself well. Creating a condition that punishes movement of any kind seems counterproductive to that goal.

I think giving Necromancers access to Torment is an excellent idea, or for any class/build that is limited in mobility.

If Mesmers and Thieves get Torment, then basically ANet will have to balance Torment around the damage it does while a person moves. Doing anything otherwise would be pretty silly, and I think that would really marginalize the effectiveness of the DoT for classes like Necromancers.

Hmm, I think it will just mean that condition removal will be more important. It’s no different than any other condition really..

Weakness your ability to dodge is hindered
Bleeding punishes you for having flesh
Confusion punishes you for attacking

Torment punishes you for moving

In all situations, must use condition removal. Maybe we need to see it in action before we claim that it is breaking the basics of the game mechanics. Perhaps, instead, it will simply increase the variability on each fight and how one reacts.

Chase.8415:

So there solution to balance was to increase the power of conditions AND add a new one? The problem is conditions, this will only make things worse. Every build will be forced to spam condition removal.

Part of me wants to agree with this… it’s exemplified in the phrase “condi bomb”, where conditions are just dumped en masse onto a player as a supplement for direct damage burst. You rarely see people use conditions tactically to counter a heal or cripple a melee skill; they’re applied so frequently that players more often saturate them and hope for the best. I’m not much a fan of the gameplay it encourages since it just ends up being a question of whether your condi removal numerically outweighs the condi application.

This sounds interesting, I’m curious to see how it plays out. For people moaning about thieves getting buffs- there is currently a gross misunderstanding about thieves, and that is that a single OP build /= an OP class, in fact it’s likely the opposite.

The problem with Thieves is that Stealth complements glass cannon builds too well, but that is pretty much the only thing they’re good at. I’m not saying that shouldn’t be addressed in some way, but in general Thieves are on the weak side and are in desperate need to have some of their abilities augmented so that they have pathways for efficacy besides focusing entirely on exploiting this gimmick.

One aspect about Torment I would like to know is how the mechanic works. Is Torment on a player for a certain amount of time and does damage for movement during that time? For example, Torment is placed on me. I take a step and stop – realizing that I have Torment on me. Does the whole condition “fire” off for taking one step, or did I only get partial damage and no more since I stopped?

What if I’m a mesmer and instead of “moving” like running, I blink. Does Torment do damage then? How about if I portal but stay standing still, do I take damage?

How about if I’m a thief and I shadowstep, but do not press #3 (no leaping), do I take damage for shadowstepping? How about if I’m not running, but just pressing #3, does Torment “fire” for each of my leaps (death blossom)?

I would still be surprised if this patch is going to disappoint warriors yet again. Looking like that though…

Taran Redleaf.7912:

One aspect about Torment I would like to know is how the mechanic works. Is Torment on a player for a certain amount of time and does damage for movement during that time? For example, Torment is placed on me. I take a step and stop – realizing that I have Torment on me. Does the whole condition “fire” off for taking one step, or did I only get partial damage and no more since I stopped?

What if I’m a mesmer and instead of “moving” like running, I blink. Does Torment do damage then? How about if I portal but stay standing still, do I take damage?

How about if I’m a thief and I shadowstep, but do not press #3 (no leaping), do I take damage for shadowstepping? How about if I’m not running, but just pressing #3, does Torment “fire” for each of my leaps (death blossom)?

I expect torment will be a very short duration condition — just like confusion. It’s very hard to keep confusion on a foe for a long time. Most mesmer condi applications melt off in 3-4 seconds. It’s hard to time for effect, so it generally just gets applied as a “side effect” to whatever else we’re doing (i.e. shatters).

If this is the case, then I expect torment to also be difficult to time for effect. It will just be spammed whenever it’s available with little regard for skilled play (because the reward is not sufficient).

Dragnela.6532:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Sepreh.5924:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

Discuss

As a person who plays the mesmer quite a bit, I can state that giving Thieves and Mesmers Torment is, generally, a bad idea!

These classes, along with the Elementalist, are very slippery and mobile classes, requiring opponents to be equally mobile to stand a chance of defeating them. Giving them access to a condition which punishes an opponent for pursuing (or running away from) these classes is entirely too much.

I’m sure the developers already know what I just stated, but I am uncertain if they have really played through the implications of this.

Torment can be used to punish an opponent for acting both offensively and defensively. It can be used to help pin down an opponent and help you escape from one.

Fundamentally, I have seen the ArenaNet developers try hard to push GW2 players in ways that force them to become better at the game. One of the most, and perhaps the single most, important aspect in PVP is learning how to move and position yourself well. Creating a condition that punishes movement of any kind seems counterproductive to that goal.

I think giving Necromancers access to Torment is an excellent idea, or for any class/build that is limited in mobility.

If Mesmers and Thieves get Torment, then basically ANet will have to balance Torment around the damage it does while a person moves. Doing anything otherwise would be pretty silly, and I think that would really marginalize the effectiveness of the DoT for classes like Necromancers.

Dont call the mesmer mobile -_-

Portal, Blink, Decoy, Prestige, Swap, Phase Retreat, Mass Invis and Temporal Curtain. The Mesmer is quite mobile in a fight.

I’m sure it was mentioned before but do we (Rangers) think its a good or bad thing they didn’t mention anything about us in their little preview? xD
I do expect to see more stun breakers tho lol.

I don’t think they mentions Guardians either. How do you guys feel?

Mesmers are very mobile in combat (and that’s where it counts mostly). Out of combat we suck for passive run speed… but that’s another topic.

Castaliea.3156:

I’m sure it was mentioned before but do we (Rangers) think its a good or bad thing they didn’t mention anything about us in their little preview? xD
I do expect to see more stun breakers tho lol.

I don’t think they mentions Guardians either. How do you guys feel?

If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say it applies here. I foresee a dark future indeed for my ranger. As long as I’m able to keep my build without them ruining where all my traits are I’m happy I guess. I finally found a different build that I actually like outside of bunker, and if they nerf it now I’ll have to do some hard thinking.

A condition removal utility skill would be nice to have on the ranger.

Castaliea.3156:

I’m sure it was mentioned before but do we (Rangers) think its a good or bad thing they didn’t mention anything about us in their little preview? xD
I do expect to see more stun breakers tho lol.

I don’t think they mentions Guardians either. How do you guys feel?

I’ve learned not to expect good or bad changes as a Ranger player.

Azjenco.9425:

What baffles me about the thread is the fact that people keep moaning that the most OP classes are getting a new condition. Meanwhile two paragraphs above the condition piece it clearly states that all classes will receive heavy updates across the board.

No they didn’t say everyone, they said all traits + some overly optimal Traited specs…

That’s just them hinting at hurrfadurff OP r.n.g. YOLO warriors getting a downtune.
…which everyone who was paying attention to dungeons could already see coming…

Again: Crit stacking is a viable playstyle and was clearly the basis of the entire Traits system. But bad players, bad exploits everywhere, and even worse A.I. keeps mucking up how challenging it was supposed to be to continually abuse that sort of pressure.

Anet’s always promoted certain levels of situational power abuse, they knows it’s what makes a playstyle “fun” to people. But they eventually have to rope some of them
in when it gets out of hand

Dragnela.6532:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Sepreh.5924:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

Discuss

As a person who plays the mesmer quite a bit, I can state that giving Thieves and Mesmers Torment is, generally, a bad idea!

These classes, along with the Elementalist, are very slippery and mobile classes, requiring opponents to be equally mobile to stand a chance of defeating them. Giving them access to a condition which punishes an opponent for pursuing (or running away from) these classes is entirely too much.

I’m sure the developers already know what I just stated, but I am uncertain if they have really played through the implications of this.

Torment can be used to punish an opponent for acting both offensively and defensively. It can be used to help pin down an opponent and help you escape from one.

Fundamentally, I have seen the ArenaNet developers try hard to push GW2 players in ways that force them to become better at the game. One of the most, and perhaps the single most, important aspect in PVP is learning how to move and position yourself well. Creating a condition that punishes movement of any kind seems counterproductive to that goal.

I think giving Necromancers access to Torment is an excellent idea, or for any class/build that is limited in mobility.

If Mesmers and Thieves get Torment, then basically ANet will have to balance Torment around the damage it does while a person moves. Doing anything otherwise would be pretty silly, and I think that would really marginalize the effectiveness of the DoT for classes like Necromancers.

Dont call the mesmer mobile -_-

Why not? My mesmer is only lvl 41 and I can say at that lvl I has plenty mobility. A distracted enemy makes you mobile doesn’t it?

DiogoSilva.7089:

Different builds.

Let me repeat that.

Different builds.

Different builds.

(…)

DIFFERENT BUILDS.

I really hope to see that. More diversity, more fun. I tired of my Guardian 0/0/30/30/10 (and I don’t play so much!). We want more vible builds.

More diversity, more fun.